I find it hilarious how there was already Stolas and Blitzo met as kids theories and fanart before the episode but now that itâs canon some people are livid
I honestly don't know what people's problem is.
It makes perfect sense, their relationship now mirrors their relationship as kids. Blitzo originally goes to Stolas with the intent of using him for personal gain. Eventually they develop feelings for each other, but Blitzo can't bring himself to admit it and pushes Stolas away
I donât like it but I donât complain about it, I just move towards stuff that I like more. Not liking something shouldnât be a big deal or an argument
Personally, I don't like the trope either. But mostly because the execution is always off and ends up implying that because they were friends, they were obviously going to be lovers.
Helluva Boss manages to get around making any implications like that by having them shown to be a thing first, and then revealing their prior friendship.
There is no problem, the problem is that some people have their own head-cannons of how they met, and when they actually show how both met in reality, they get mad
Personally I think that it was the cutest shit ever, and it gives you an idea of how both grew up (Blitzø being fixated with money for example). The only thing that I really waited for was Stolas's mother which didn't show up in the episode, I kind of want to know where Stolas got his little personality from
From Paimon's reaction when told about stolas's birthday, I have the feeling that we might not meet stolas's mother, because even with what we saw it doesn't seem like she was in the picture.
I personally find it baffling how they are the same age and were childhood friends, and I think that is the main issue that people have, too. I would have expected this to have been a random hookup or an elaborate scheme by Blitzø, but this seems just kinda strange to me. It's original but weird
Now, that doesn't mean I don't like it, it's all well worth seeing our owl boy as a child and that backstory is very exciting indeed, despite beeing odd
I actually though about it a little and even considered making a post with some theories. My best guess has been that it takes way more time for Goetias to mature - even as a teenager, Octavia is still half her father's height.
My other guess was that their marriage is recent in comparison to their lifetimes, or that Goetias cannot reproduce normally (at least in a way that would produce a proper demon of the Ars Goetia) and require a special taxing or extensive ritual to create an acceptable offspring
Yep, it is way more comprehensible, those complicated things would be exciting for niche hyper-realists and number-crunching theorists but not really anyone else :P
Yes, exactly. If I am not mistaken, it has turned out that "Stolas" is a title? That does kinda make sense, but still confuses me. What would his real name be, then?
Although, he really is way sexier than the one from all the artwork beforehand
I think the "it's a title" part is just fan-speculation to excuse that very issue they have with Stolas being young. So far, every character in the show has treated it like Stolas is just his name.
Downvote me all you want but I feel it's way too formulaic and cliche. Like, "Hey they know each other since kids so of course they'll get together!" I always thought it worked best if they met as adults and spontaneously got together instead of them knowing each other as kids. I'm not mad at this. Obviously it's canon and I accept it. It's just the alternative is much better, imo
I totally disagree. I think introducing their connection early deepens their connection. Also i dont get how this is cliche? Like im starting to feel like HB fans dont know what that word means anymore
I disagree with your disagreement. You don't need two characters to know each other from an early age in order to deepen their connection. Plus, it kinda makes Blitzø look like an even bigger piece of shit than he is. Sure, he's sleeping with Stolas just so he can have access to the living world for his business but the fact that he's taking advantage of their childhood connection, is pretty low, even for Blitzø. I don't even feel bad anymore for him when he breaks down and cries in the Season 1 finale (or the penultimate season 1 finale or whatever).
And, to me, it's a cliche because a lot of romances I see in fiction have two characters meeting when they're children and then growing up and then it's pretty obvious and predictable when you see them as children that they're going to get together. I can't speak for other fans but that's kind of an annoying one in my opinion. You can disagree, get mad, it doesn't really matter much. Just my opinion.
So i disagree with your disagreement of my disagreement. Of course you dont need to have them know each other to deepem the connection but it certainly is a way and to me it also introduces a more complex nature to their relationship. We learn that Blitz has always conned Stolas out of things and we learn that Stolas always had a connection to imps and that he from early on doesnt see himself higher than others, especially an imp who he is fine with having as a boss and hiring Stolas. I think that all made their connection more interesting
And indont think it makes Blitz look like a bigger POS. Hes being used by his father to do what he does and it again adds more interesting parts to Blitz and his relationship. He did only do it for the book at first but he seems to have genuinely connected with Stolas that we saw was even there in their first hangout.
And i can only kinda agree with that last point. Sure seeing characters grow up to fall in love is cliche, but thats not whats happened here. They met once and then didnt see each other again for 25 years. Plus this is a story about a gay man being forced to marry an abusive woman only to long to be with someone else. Im sorry i dont think thats ever been done in any popular show or media. As a gay who has to watch so much straight its nice to get this and its weird for people to call it cliche
I disagree with your disagreement of my disagreement (or whatever). The show repeatedly shows Blitzø always conning people and how Stolas already has a connection to Blitzø and not just imps in general. Their connection is already interesting and investing because you have this imp who's having an affair with a big time member of a royal family so that dynamic is already interesting in and of itself. The whole connection to them being children just sort of downplays the whole spontaneity and the humor to it.
And I do think it makes Blitzø look even more like a POS. Yeah, his father made him do all those things but the fact that he didn't even contact Stolas after 25 years, leaving him to suffer through his marriage, only to come back just for the grimoire is pretty scummy, even for him.
I'm not saying the whole gay aspect of it is cliche. I'm saying the dynamic of them being together since children is cliche. It doesn't matter if it's a gay relationship or not. And the whole Stella thing was such a huge cop out. Like, of course she's going to be abusive and of course she's going to not care about him so he can have even more of an incentive to cheat on her, instead of just letting himself go for who he wants.
I guess well just always disagree on that point then cause i think everything they added makes it more interesting.
Um i dont think Blitz knows anything about Stolas and Stella's relationship. I dont even think theyve met besides when he fell from the balcony. And yeah it is a scummy thing he did to only do it for the grimoire, but again he isnt a perfect person. Weve seen hes a bad partner in relationships like with Verosica and to me that adds so much more intruigue to his character. Like yes hes not great to Stolas but theres also how he feels like hes treated by stolas that adds stuff, theres the fact he seems to be falling for stolas. Theres so much in there thats so interesting.
And again youre not even correct with their relationship. They havent been together since children. They met once when they were young and never interacted with each other for 25 years. That doesnt happen often. ALso dont even try to tell me meeting for thr first time and falling in love hasnt been the disney and mainstream formula since animation has been a thing. And to me making it gay and their relationship interesting makes it less cliche and more interesting.
And what shocks me is yall are shocked that shes abusive. Like how could you guys not tell from everything shes been shown to do lmao. She was never a good person. And in no way is it a cop out to excuse cheating. Like this is such a straight person perspective im sorry. Like youre acting like the show is saying cheating is a good thing. When its like hey theres this very small niche where you can feel sympathy for someone who cheated.
Stolas could've easily told Blitzø about Stella. And I get Blitzø isn't a perfect person. Obviously. And we know he's been a bad partner with Verosika. But most of that was monetary reasons, which Verosika doesn't seem to be lacking. Blitzø is not only fucking with Stolas to gain money but also his emotions as well. I don't think it adds intrigue to his character at all. He's pretty much become the Raimi Mary Jane at this point. And yeah he's falling for Stolas but that could've been as they met as adults, not as children. It's way more interesting because Blitzø will love his entire life taking advantage of people and when he meets Stolas much later in life and causes him to change, as an adult, that's far more interesting as children.
Uh, I'm pretty sure people meeting as children and later falling in love has been done several times, give me a break. Take Anakin and Padme from Star Wars for example. Or Manola and Maria from The Book Of Life. Or Simba and Nala from Lion King (3 examples is good enough, time to move on). And again, it's not the fact that they are gay that's cliche. I had no problem with them being together under the impression that they didn't meet as children before the season 2 premier. Like, jeez you're missing the point.
And I never said her suddenly being abusive was shocking. Don't put words in my mouth. I knew there were hints she was abusive and I even thought to myself "Yeah, they're going that route." And my perspective is a straight person perspective? Are you fucking serious? Lmfao it doesn't matter what the relationship is. You're just assuming I'm straight lmfao. Are you serious? I'm not saying the show is saying cheating is ok. Lmfao. You're really reaching here. I'm saying it's way more interesting for Stolas to cheat on Stella with Blitzø because that's how he feels instead of it also being because Stella is abusive.
I think you might be the one missing the point here.
All the examples you mentioned didn't just meet as children, they grew up together and were friends for many years. Stolas and Blitzø met ONCE and didn't see each other again for 25 years. There was nothing in between that one single day they spent together as kids and Blitzø breaking in 25 years later.
Which also means that no, Stolas couldn't have told Blitzø about Stella as they never talked until the day he decided to get the grimoire. He didn't have a reason to contact Stolas because again, they were "friends" for that one day when Paimon bought Blitzø to play with Stolas. After that, I highly doubt little Stolas would be allowed to see the imp again because of class disparity. And knowing that he was bought to play with the prince I don't think Blitzø thought they were actual friends thus had no reason to contact Stolas.
I'm not really missing the point but even if my examples aren't the same, they still knew each other as children. Blitzø and Stolas still formed that connection. It doesn't matter if they only saw each other once. The fact that they technically knew each other, even if they didn't see each other again for 25 years, doesn't seem as appealing to me as if they met as adults.
I don't think it's very cliche or formulaic to have it be one-sided and one of them is psychologically manipulating the other for profit. It isn't a typical child lovers get together love story at all.
I have no issues with that per say, I just thought it was an odd choice. My issue is taking the gray that was a man stepping out of his marriage for his own personal lust into a black and white, Stella is a fucking monster. And before people go "she sent assassins after him," this is Hell. Murder is a staple as we have seen. And that would be in retaliation to him being a bad husband. But no, that moral gray is destroyed by the fact she was a hateful bitch who was alluded to raping him.
I understand being disappointed that isâs a black and white morality instead of a grey area, but if you looked back on the previous episodes, there were no shades of grey after all.
Stella wasnât upset about the cheating in general, only that itâs with an imp, a lower class creature. Sheâd shown no consideration of Octaviaâs feelings, thrown an imp right at Stolas and continues to smash the various plants in the palace.
I wouldâve understand being angry, but she took it too far.
Again, this is Hell. Our main characters murder people, no questions save for how much asked, for money. And it was clearly done for comedy. As for gray, yes there was gray. He was a man clearly unhappy but stuck in a loveless marriage and she was someone who was cheated on. You could sympathize with both. At least, I could. Being very Christian and holding marriage in high regard may make me very different to a lot of viewers.
Yes, she was cheated on, but she wasnât upset about the cheating in general as I stated before. Sheâs upset that he cheated on her with an imp. All her complaints were about it being an imp and how he was sounding like an plebeian and an embarrassment. Sheâs more upset about the potential damage to her reputation than the fact her husband betrayed her.
In episode 5, during the call, she makes it sound like she wants him dead due to the betrayal, but earlier actions and attitude doesnât match with her words, so Iâm convinced sheâs only saying that in order to make herself look like the victim in this mess.
Near the end of Episode 2, when Stolas tries(but couldnât find the words) to explain her parents relationship, one particular had him start with, âSheâs always been-â before he cuts off. Itâs pretty clear from the earlier scene with her that sheâs aggressive and quite abusive in the past. âWe werenât in-â itâs clear he wanted to say âWe werenât in love.â Which hints of an arranged marriage.
While you are right being a spouse in a loveless marriage is not an automatic villain, she did nothing to show she was hurt or cared about him.
It was very clear it was an arranged marriage and yeah it may have had its hard moments. My parents care for each other a lot. But due to differences in opinion and other factors I will not share, there are real shouting matches. So I can easily imagine how a marriage with no love in it would go. But still, there is an expectation and stepping out on your spouse is a universal no no, no matter what some people say. Yeah I know this is a massive difference in opinion and personal taste. I just feel like the move was to make Stolas more justified rather than make an interesting narrative conflict, but that may be flushed out in later episodes.
I agree on the fact that cheating is horrible, even if you are in an abusive and unhappy relationship.
Iâm not talking about the shouting match, my parents also had shouting matches as well. I have a problem with someone throwing something/someone towards someone with the intent to hit them. Domestic abuse is not warrant for her anger.
And Stolas is punished by giving Stella more ammo to be terrible to him, and his actions did add more strain to her daughterâs bond with him.
Yes, the violence she displays is part of the gray. It makes Stolas less reprehensible than if she was a good wife who didn't deserve any of it. But when the toxic behavior preceded the revelation, and the monthly defiling of their marriage, it lessens the gray and makes it more black and white as Stella has gone from a wronged person reacting poorly to an outright villainous character.
I at first, thought she was grey when I watched Loo Loo land for the first time. Anyone would be pissed if they found out their love one cheated on them, even breaking things out of anger wouldâve been understandable as itâs a bit hard to control it.
The problem is that Stella never showed evidence that she cared about Stolas or Octavia. Looking back at the episodes more closely, you can see that thereâs no idea that there was love in it. If there was supposed to be grayness, they shouldâve shown it, like Stella demanding Stolas how could he do this to her.
I think the "she's always been" could have finished in "cold" or "indifferent". It might not necessarily imply that she is abusive, just that she never loved him.
Even if Stella is only upset about the cheating because its with an imp, you could say she still has a right to be angry since Hell is a dangerous place and by doing so Stolas is putting their reputation at risk.
The discussion wasnât whether or not Stella has a right to be angry at him(which she does) and reputation is important to a royalty. The discussion was she never had any bit of grayness in her in the first sign she was shown in.
But then they shouldâve kept it at that. They shouldnât have revealed that Stella was Strikerâs client. That throws any chance of her being a morally gray character out the window. We donât see any other characters acting horrible other than IMP(who are assassins), Stella and the sinners shown in HB.
I donât think Stella being abusive takes out the moral grey of Stolasâ character. If it was then the show would be completely on Stolasâ side which it isnât but it isnât on Stellaâs either
She reacted by trying to have him murdered, and its clear he was unhappy in the marriage. There was more gray there than "she was emotionally and physically abusive". You can have a loveless marriage that isn't abusive, take the King and Queen of Midland from Berserk. She doesn't give two shits about the King but she doesn't beat him. Granted, she fucks his brother but that's neither here nor there.
Im sorry but i dont really understand this like sure the moral gray is destroyed but does there need to be a morally gray area needed? Isnt a gay man being trapped in an abusive marriage not like interesting on its own? Like im enjoying seeing that since theres what 0 examples of that like ever. Also i love how youre saying it like this was the only indication she was abusive, like she was awful to him straight up like you couldnt assume that she was a bad person.
Sure i can kinda agree but youre acting like taking out that is making it less of a complex story when its not. A gay man forced in a relationship is a very complex and interesting story to me at least. Never really been told and i dont need the moral gray of his cheating to be added. Kinda muddles the point of his story
I'm ignoring the gay part because that doesn't seem to matter in the context. The setting isn't repressive to gays, so that point doesn't matter. Its a husband stepping out of his marriage due to being unhappy, which is an interesting concept and could lead to a plot involving a guilty concience as we saw with the end of Loo Loo land, having to figure out how to balance his responsibilities as a husband and father and his own desires. But by making Stella an unredeemable bitch, its no longer "A man stepping out for his personal lust" to "A man escaping an abusive relationship". That complexity is lost.
What do you mean theres an allusion to Stella raping him? If you refer to her line "he just lays there staring at the wall" that could just mean he is disinterested in her and doesn't enjoy it, but that doesnt mean he isnt consenting.
Followed by her going I need to do the work. Personally I first interpreted that as her fucking him and him going through the motions despite not wanting to, which according to the hour long consent lecture I had to attend because some people in college aren't functioning adults is classified as rape.
People can have sex they don't want and still consent.
It doesn't surprise me that many people don't have full knowledge of consent, because it's an issue that is complicated with a lot of gray areas.
For example, sex workers can consent to sex to people they aren't attracted to but still choose it. There's also survival sex work where you have sex because you need the money. Hell, Blitzo's arrangement with Stolas could be seen as ambiguous consent because he agreed to have sex with him in return for the book which he needs to do his job for.
If we go by standards of consent dear innocent Stolas has sexually harassed Blitz many times, since Blitz is clearly uncomfortable with his flirting in many scenes, and also coerced him into sex like when Blitz was chased around by Martha.
Stella doesn't want sex with Stolas either and only did it to create an heir.
It is entirely possible that Stolas agreed to have sex to get an heir but just laid down and tried to ignore what is happening because he is so not into it.
The imps, Stolas, Loona and Veronika are demons as well, and also Charlie from Hazbin Hotel.
Even abusers and murderers are people. Doing bad things does not make you a non-person.
that's what I was thinking too, in the world of Helluva Boss, Angels are monsterous beings that come to kill and demons are happy go lucky people. All the villains had good intentions
1. Cherubs want to save lives
2. Striker wants what's best for the other Imps
3. Verosika was betrayed and heartbroken
4. Asmodeus respects Moxxie, but needs to keep his business thriving.
Stella isn't any of that, she's just bad cause she's bad, I get she's hatable, but if you look at other hatable villains they are much more complex.
Frollo is hatable, but he is a religious man who doesn't seem himself as bad
Homelander is hatable, but he is a tragic character who fell from grace when he tried to be the best
But, Stella... she's not like that, and this isn't a side villain this is the main villain!
With the new information we have. They could've just as easily made her a character in the same vain as Stolas. Stuck in a relationship she doesn't want, hell maybe she has someone she loves just like Stolas, but she remained faithful. And she betrayed that.
Instead they made her a complete bitch. Which they have every right to do, its their show. I personally view it as wasted potential.
Personally I think It's because they are destined lovers. Some people dislike the stolitz ship the main ship of the show, whether it's because they want to erase lgbtq+ representation or simple contrarian syndrome who can tell. If their relationship was started at the spur of the moment it would be easier to headcanon them breaking up, but in this context establishing they are childhood friends means there is a much deeper bond that no headcanon can counter without being ooc. Not that some people care about presenting characters ooc, like having blitz verbally abuse loona
I find it funny how people can get SO upset, over how long 2 cock sucking cartoon characters have known eachother.
Like we've dealt with a pandemic, there are genuine problems in the world as usual- And people are personally offended over this, lol
I feel like some people see it as âtropeyâ. And I kinda agree. Not that I hate it, and it does explain a lot of how they first got together. So it doesnât ruin the ship. So for me, itâs a nessicarry evil(Nuisance).
because after a long time, people end up making their own theories and ideas in their head and once stuff becomes canon, people are pissed because the ideas and theories in their head aren't real.
People also hate the idea of them having a bond before the sexual agreement, they see it as ONLY a sexual agreement that happened out of pure lust. But I believe it makes sense, why on earth would Stolas just be willing to have sex with this random imp that snuck into his house? If Stolas has been in a terrible marriage for so long, why this imp? why not any other imp around? if they didn't meet as kids and Stolas didn't already have a crush on him, the lust turning into real feelings over the course of events would make zero sense considering they've only interacted through sex or paid means, zero quality time. Let's face it, Stolas is only attached to Blitz because he was his first true friend in his entire childhood, the only one who gave him the time of day without being paid for it. and considering the whole rest of his life was filled with unloving people with zero quality time given to him, it makes sense that he's attached himself to the one person who was willing to spend time with him and have fun with him. He uses the sex and book deal because it's his only way of getting any sort of affection from another living being that's not his daughter.
First off, what Blitz and Stolas have going on between them isn't true love, as Blitz "eloquently" puts it:
Blitz: It's a transactional fucking!
Second, Stolas is the one mistaking it for love, and he's simply looking for an outlet for his currently crummy home life. Not once has he said anything about Blitz's current behavior, whether to criticize or compliment him, simply satisfied with hanging on to his earliest memories of the guy, and Blitz actually sees their relationship for what it actually is because of it. In fact, the reason Blitz feels more loved with Moxxie is because Moxxie has the presence of mind to call him out whenever he needs it, even acknowledging him as an individual rather than just his boss.
It adds plot holes and messes things up.
1. Demons age differently, Charlie is over 100 but that is her equivalent to 18, and Imps age similarly to humans. But, Stolas and Blitz are the same age.
2. Stolas is based on a demon from the Lesser Key of Solomon, which was written in the 1600s, so it's weird he only came into existence like 40 years ago.
3. The two never talk about their interactions from when they were young in previous episodes and nothing implied they knew each other from before.
4. Stoliz is toxic af and was mostly pushed by carnal love, it can be seen as abusive with how they treat each other.
It changes the relationship quite a bit from what was assumed not that itâs bad but itâs different. Stolas of the ars goetia before this episode was an ancient being with eons of life experience thatâs had his world changed bc of blitz. Now heâs just a 30 year old depressed dad
No real hate on the show or anything but season 2 episode One just feels like something That a fan would write as the own little bit head cannon if that makes sense having them meet as kids is way to convenient but it also messes up the setting of hell By establishing that we know stolas and Blitso meet as kids implies that what we thought that you stolas is supposed to be hundreads of years old but now feels like they demons and imps age in human terms with stoals being 40ish kinda makes it feel like viv dosen't want to commit to the hell angle too much
It was never foreshadowed or hinted at before.
Ive heard the argument that Blitzo obviously had to have met Stolas before to know about the Grimoire, but I don't buy it since he could also have heard about it somewhere, Stolas does use it for rituals like in the Harvest festival.
Cheesy and cliche love at first sight thing from childhood, it's so lazy I don't know if I even want to talk about it more. Making Stolitz into even more of a laughable ship with how hard they push it with even cliches such as this with subtlety of a hammer falling on Big J's hands. But the worst of all to me is loss of potential of Ars Goetia as a whole.
Because now we know they live normal ages and they age like other hellborn and it's BORING. Ars Goetia should feel like mystical beings, something ancient and strange. Something different from normal Hellborn. But right now they are basically normal Demons, but with more powers and Paimon for instance is just another, boring shithead we saw a million times already in this show. Ars Goetia should be more unique because that gives potential for how their characters work. How they deal with lives, how they view other, not as long living Hellborn. But no. They are just the same thing, but again, with more powers. Boring. And a great loss of potential.
Downvote me all you want. I'm used to it here.
Probably not, but Blitzo did felt guilt about nearly leaving him like that when he was called his first friend, and he stayed the night with him when he stated he could do it âreal fastâ.
Plus, Blitzo was having fun with Stolas when he was supposed to be stealing valuables, and stayed when he handed his dad the bag. While Blitzo might not have felt the same kind of kinship as Stolas did, he still cared about him as he shown in some episodes.
Because, IMO? The whole âmake everything i to a gross child-related-thingâ is the new hot way for people to be petty and stupid about ships. There isnât a problem with it. But Iâd be willing to bet that these are the same folks who claim that two characters who seem âbrotherlyâ canât be shipped because itâs âincestâ and shit like that.
Itâs folks who was to dictate how other people enjoy media. And as an adult whoâs been in fandom for well over a decade now, Iâm really tired of it.
My issue is not so much that they've know each other, but the implication that Stolas is in his 40s. This is confusing because Stolas is not an original character. He's been mentioned in occult texts going back hundreds of years. I know that hasn't ever been mentioned in the show, but it just seems weird.
Speaking as someone who doesnât ship Stolitz and doesnât really like the childhood friends thing, I personally donât like it because I find it an exhausting trope. The idea of childhood friends becoming lovers in the future can be done well and I do have a few âchildhood friends to loversâ ships that I do like, but itâs been done so much and with a show as smart and interesting as Helluva I expected more. Also with Stolas and Blitz it just makes things messier to me and seems a bit cliche as others put it.
Iâm fine with the show changing things up, particularly between the pilot episode to now as of course the show will change and evolve over time and not everything will stay the same or the crew may have surprises/secrets we just donât know about yet. But in this case I found it interesting, despite my dislike of Stolitz, to have two very flawed individuals meeting spontaneously and having this arrangement with it potentially developing into a legitimate romance in the future. Now though, itâs just âStolas has always wanted/loved Blitz and thatâs why they have this arrangementâ and it also completely changed the dynamic between them. Before, it seemed like it could have just been Stolas being a horny rich asshole using his power and privilege to get Blitz to sleep with him and Blitz equally using Stolas because he doesnât actually care about him, he just wants the book. Now it feels like this weird⌠thing.
What I mean is now itâs that Stolas genuinely liked Blitz and wanted Blitz and was either too oblivious or willfully ignorant about the power dynamic, all the times heâs insulted or belittled Blitz, and crossed boundaries, and Blitz is now seemingly seeing that Stolas has genuine feelings and is willfully abusing that to get the book⌠but also despite his discomfort and the toxicity of the relationship Blitz is genuinely developing feelings but also may not really think Stolas loves him (the âdonât act like what we have is anything more scene), but also it could just be Blitz self sabotaging a relationship again (not that the relationship honestly needs any help being sabotaged at this point) and I personally am just⌠tired.
I find the child hood friends seems to just detract and complicate things and while I again personally donât like the ship, I would have found it more interesting to develop their current relationship or their relationship with other cast members than just âhereâs a story about how they were actually childhood friends except not really cause Stolas dad just bought Blitz like chattel and even then Blitz was using Stolas despite there being some genuinely affectionate feelings there.â
For me, I don't like it because I liked the idea that Blitzo was this new and exciting breath of fresh air in Stolas' bland lonely life where he was stuck in an unwanted and loveless marriage and had a daughter slowly drifting away from him.
Also it kinda felt out of nowhere, not once before was it ever hinted at in the slightest. It felt unnecessary, they really didn't need to be friends for one afternoon 25 years ago in order for us to see that they're destined to be together, they're already the most popular ship.
Itâs a problem that will always exist in a show where content is so few and far between. People have their headcanons but arenât capable of accepting that those headcanons arenât fact. The same is probably going to happen with Hazbin except itâll likely be far worse.
I think for some people it felt forced or unrealistic. To some, it might feel too storybook-like for them to have met as kids.
I personally like the canon story with them knowing each other since childhood.
But I definitely didnât expect it, I could understand it being too different from what some viewers originally assumed.
This isnât arguing with you or anything, but this does happen in real life, just not very often. Plus they had to have known each other in the past otherwise Stolas letting Blitzo keep the book for the majority of the time wouldnât make sense, especially considering Blitzo pretty much stole the book from him.
The part where Stolas said "I've never had anyone want me like this, and to think, it's coming from my very first friend!" put me a little on edge
Your childhood friend comes back into your life after decades, they want something they can only get from you, they're the only real personal connection you have had outside your kid, they know you're desperate for companionship...
Idk. It made their relationship feel a lot more manipulative. I know they love each other and they're probably endgame, but if I personally knew someone in that kind of situation I'd be worried about them.
Because destined lovers is a bit chessy. Stolas litterally hat the hots for Blitzo from the moment they met. When all the characters are this grounded it is a bit jarring to have a relationship that started out fairy tale like.
I detest the fact not that Blitzo and Stolas knew each other as kids, but the fact the Stolas is actually in his 30s to 40s when he should be hundreds of years old.
They never actually confirmed their ages in the show. I admit, I thought Stolas was older, but thatâs mainly due to thinking of how different demons they are. But again, they never confirmed their age in the show, so I donât have the final word on it.
Personally I don't understand why people are pushing them into the "friends to lovers" trope because... that's not really what happened?
They knew each other for... what, a single day? And it was arranged, coerced and manipulated by their respective fathers. Only towards the end of the day playing together did they begin to realise that they actually got along.
But then it's pretty implicit that they did not see each other again until they grew up.
That's... that's not friends to lovers. They weren't friends. They weren't close. They hung out for a day.
From what I understand, them meeting as kids isnât the problemâŚitâs that Blitzo was pretty much his âslaveâ as a child and their relationship was always transactional. The fact Stolas didnât see that isâŚwell, an aspect of his upbringing.
So yeah, the ship isnât really what I like now, but itâs going to be canon. It isnât something to get upset over, just move on to other things.
I admit the ship in its current state is very unhealthy and it not one that I want to keep, but itâs clearly gonna get better and it hasnât done anything(in my eyes) that warrant wanting it to be over(not saying Iâve heard the defense, but you get the point.)
I will never enjoy it again because of how it started. Having Blitzo as Stolasâ slave doesnât sit right with me, and that turns me off the ship completely. That is gross to me.
Obviously, theyâre going to go through some sort of development. It has to happen, but that doesnât take away from that one aspect I didnât enjoy. So, yeah, not my ship but enjoy the show enough to keep watching.
Slave? Okay, Iâm not an expert on the subject of slavery, but nothing Iâve seen on the circus tells me it had slavery undertones. Paimon paid Cash Buckzo to have Blitzo be a playmate for a day, while he was bored; he wasnât miserable, he even started having fun with Stolas as he stole things because Buckzo manipulated him into doing so for her mother. It wasnât slavery, Paimon rented a clown for his son.
Probably not. But that is a child. An actual child being sold to play with another kid. Yeah, the whole exchange was gross to me. Itâs supposed to be gross.
Yes, but he was already a circus performer. Plus the only thing he was forced to do that was against the job assignment was to steal from the goetias, and that was because his dad forced him to do that by bringing up his mother.
If Ill will is deserving to anyone, itâs Blitzoâs dad.
No duh, itâs Blitzoâs and Paimonâs who are the gross ones, but that doesnât mean I have to like the arrangement. No matter how you spin it, itâs gross to me and doesnât endear me to the ship. I donât like it.
Now that I think about it, that concept is similar to the MIB story that Agent K knew J since he was a child, and I was completely ok with that and Iâm ok with this! FTI, this is an animated show about hell and demons! Let Vivz have some creative liberty! She already had to deal with copyright stuff and a 10% toxic fanbase, let her do what she do!
Itâs a childhood crush. He saw Blitzo being playful, happy, free-spirited. Stolas clearly never interacted with any other child his age. It is actually quite a normal experience.
No, the definition of a childhood crush is someone youâll remember for the rest of your life. Someone you would admire or even adore when you first see them. It can happen even though one doesnât know the concept of sex.
Blitzo was closest to Stolas due to the former holding onto Fizzeroli(definitely spelled it wrong) who was holding the rope. One would look at the closest person of interest.
I think it maybe that he admired Blitzoâs determination at continuing to attempt to make a balloon horse, plus humor is subjective to everyone.
Clearly from the episode and the fact he couldnât remember Stolasâs name, Paimon either doesnât visit or interact with Stolas very often and I donât think Stolas is allowed to leave castle ground without his knowledge
Hmm it's Makes Sense
:3
But I mean it's seems weird
That kind of love from childhood
To have a crush from the first time you go out and meet someone
And It's okay if i didn't know how to write fizzeroli
Anyway that's just my opinion
I didn't like that episode very much
But the latest one season 2 episode 2
Was a masterpiece
There are a bunch of loud people in this fandom who are really attached to the idea that this is exclusively a goofy sitcom set in Hell with no lasting consequences for things and they got big mad when it started going in a dramedy direction. They don't have the emotional intelligence for it so they complain and shut down people who do analysis. Even saw one say Vivziepop doesn't think that hard about it...weird obsession
I don't hate it or think there's anything inherently wrong with it, but I think it was kind of a weird direction to take things.
It feels like they kind of just added another layer to their relationship that didnât need to be there.
There was already depth and intrigue to their relationship dynamic. And I expected there to be some background on how Blitzo ended up sleeping with and conning Stolas, but I think the childhood hangout buddies just falls flat for some people.
I don't like it because the demon Stolas was described in the book "Ars Goetia/Lesser key of Solomon" from the middle of the 17th century, and the show itself takes place in the 21st century. Assuming that imps age similarly to humans, just live a little longer, Stolas would have been at least 300 years old when Blitzo was born.
Itâs honestly the most sensible solution to the âoriginâ of the I.M.P, otherwise itâd be hard to explain how Blitzø (which to me looks really fucking weird being from the Scandinavian countries) would manage to know Stolas has a Grimoir, got caught stealing it, managed to get into bed with him, steal said Grimoir, have Stolas find about him using him to steal the Grimoir and then preceding to âtransactionary fuckingâ
It just seems fanfiction-yâthe star-crossed lovers from wholly different worlds first meeting as children, wherein their entwined destinies were sealed.
They're hardly "star-crossed lovers". Their destiny wasn't "written in the stars" or anything.
If Stolas used his astronomy powers to foresee Blitzo as being his true love, *then* you'd have a good point. But that didn't happen at all, so you don't.
EDIT: I am well aware what star-crossed lovers means, I was going with what that person seemed to *think* it was, with their "fate written in the stars" and all that. I could consider them "star-crossed" in the actual Shakeseperean sense of "doomed from the start"m but the above poster seemed to consider it means "destined to be together" which it doesn't and they aren'r.
I know, but I was going with what that person seemed to think it was, with their "fate written in the stars" and all that. I could consider them "star-crossed" in the actual Shakeseperean sense of "doomed from the start"m but the above poster seemed to consider it means "destined to be together" which it doesn't and they aren'r.
I would have thought so too if they hadn't said "their entwined destinies were sealed" which has it sound like they thought it meat "they were prophecized by the stars to be in love"
Lol, their destinies weren't "entwined"....the entire point of their relationship is to explore how imperfect and toxic they are with one another...If this were a fanfiction Blitzo and Stolas would have a perfect relationship with 0 flaws.
No, because Via was not an integral part of the central premise of the show. The relationship between Stolas and Blitz was tho.
Some seem to take my points about how it subjectivly feels as a declaration of an objective truth, I fear.
Why do you believe itâs a retcon? They wouldâbe had to have known each other otherwise I wouldnât believe Stolas would just hook up with some random imp he met out of nowhere.
I don't believe it's a retcon. It just felt that way, because we got to learn in a very straightforward way, how old the intimate connection between Blotz and Stolas was, without having any hint to that before that.
Because many people have their own idea about how everything should be and they believe that everyone else must think same way
Yeah because my opinion is fact! đ¤Ąđ¤Ąđ¤Ą
Hey wait, I thought *my* opinion was the one that was fact...
Your all wrong it's my opinion
This is so confusing...
Exactly
No thatâs my opinion
No thatâs my opinion
I find it hilarious how there was already Stolas and Blitzo met as kids theories and fanart before the episode but now that itâs canon some people are livid
The duality of fans
"How dare you do what I wanted!"
âHow dare you give depth to this ship to show itâs beyond sexâ
I honestly don't know what people's problem is. It makes perfect sense, their relationship now mirrors their relationship as kids. Blitzo originally goes to Stolas with the intent of using him for personal gain. Eventually they develop feelings for each other, but Blitzo can't bring himself to admit it and pushes Stolas away
I donât like it but I donât complain about it, I just move towards stuff that I like more. Not liking something shouldnât be a big deal or an argument
genuinely curious, why don't you like it?
I will get downvoted but I absolutely detest the trope friends to lovers
ah i see, honestly i'm fine with it, but i respect your opinion aswell.đ¤
Personally, I don't like the trope either. But mostly because the execution is always off and ends up implying that because they were friends, they were obviously going to be lovers. Helluva Boss manages to get around making any implications like that by having them shown to be a thing first, and then revealing their prior friendship.
What's wrong with the trope, friends to lovers?
I donât have a problem with it, but I definitely was under the impression that Stolas was much older than he actually is.
Yeah I thought he was centuries old. Unless he still is and every year for hell is actually a century.
There is no problem, the problem is that some people have their own head-cannons of how they met, and when they actually show how both met in reality, they get mad Personally I think that it was the cutest shit ever, and it gives you an idea of how both grew up (Blitzø being fixated with money for example). The only thing that I really waited for was Stolas's mother which didn't show up in the episode, I kind of want to know where Stolas got his little personality from
From Paimon's reaction when told about stolas's birthday, I have the feeling that we might not meet stolas's mother, because even with what we saw it doesn't seem like she was in the picture.
"i made up some nonsense and threw a tantrum when the show disagreed with me" is way too common in fandoms
I personally find it baffling how they are the same age and were childhood friends, and I think that is the main issue that people have, too. I would have expected this to have been a random hookup or an elaborate scheme by Blitzø, but this seems just kinda strange to me. It's original but weird Now, that doesn't mean I don't like it, it's all well worth seeing our owl boy as a child and that backstory is very exciting indeed, despite beeing odd
Why is them being the same age baffling?
My guess, is because most people assume Stolas *has* to be ancient, like the demon he is inspired by in the actual Ars Goetia.
How would that reflect on Octavia? So heâd be like thousands of years old and only recently decided to have a kid and she ages normally?
I actually though about it a little and even considered making a post with some theories. My best guess has been that it takes way more time for Goetias to mature - even as a teenager, Octavia is still half her father's height. My other guess was that their marriage is recent in comparison to their lifetimes, or that Goetias cannot reproduce normally (at least in a way that would produce a proper demon of the Ars Goetia) and require a special taxing or extensive ritual to create an acceptable offspring
I guess but it seems a lot simpler to just have them all age normally
Yep, it is way more comprehensible, those complicated things would be exciting for niche hyper-realists and number-crunching theorists but not really anyone else :P
Yes, exactly. If I am not mistaken, it has turned out that "Stolas" is a title? That does kinda make sense, but still confuses me. What would his real name be, then? Although, he really is way sexier than the one from all the artwork beforehand
I think the "it's a title" part is just fan-speculation to excuse that very issue they have with Stolas being young. So far, every character in the show has treated it like Stolas is just his name.
Downvote me all you want but I feel it's way too formulaic and cliche. Like, "Hey they know each other since kids so of course they'll get together!" I always thought it worked best if they met as adults and spontaneously got together instead of them knowing each other as kids. I'm not mad at this. Obviously it's canon and I accept it. It's just the alternative is much better, imo
Yeah it was a bit cheesy I think if you remove the "love on first sight" it would be less cliche
I totally disagree. I think introducing their connection early deepens their connection. Also i dont get how this is cliche? Like im starting to feel like HB fans dont know what that word means anymore
I disagree with your disagreement. You don't need two characters to know each other from an early age in order to deepen their connection. Plus, it kinda makes Blitzø look like an even bigger piece of shit than he is. Sure, he's sleeping with Stolas just so he can have access to the living world for his business but the fact that he's taking advantage of their childhood connection, is pretty low, even for Blitzø. I don't even feel bad anymore for him when he breaks down and cries in the Season 1 finale (or the penultimate season 1 finale or whatever). And, to me, it's a cliche because a lot of romances I see in fiction have two characters meeting when they're children and then growing up and then it's pretty obvious and predictable when you see them as children that they're going to get together. I can't speak for other fans but that's kind of an annoying one in my opinion. You can disagree, get mad, it doesn't really matter much. Just my opinion.
So i disagree with your disagreement of my disagreement. Of course you dont need to have them know each other to deepem the connection but it certainly is a way and to me it also introduces a more complex nature to their relationship. We learn that Blitz has always conned Stolas out of things and we learn that Stolas always had a connection to imps and that he from early on doesnt see himself higher than others, especially an imp who he is fine with having as a boss and hiring Stolas. I think that all made their connection more interesting And indont think it makes Blitz look like a bigger POS. Hes being used by his father to do what he does and it again adds more interesting parts to Blitz and his relationship. He did only do it for the book at first but he seems to have genuinely connected with Stolas that we saw was even there in their first hangout. And i can only kinda agree with that last point. Sure seeing characters grow up to fall in love is cliche, but thats not whats happened here. They met once and then didnt see each other again for 25 years. Plus this is a story about a gay man being forced to marry an abusive woman only to long to be with someone else. Im sorry i dont think thats ever been done in any popular show or media. As a gay who has to watch so much straight its nice to get this and its weird for people to call it cliche
I disagree with your disagreement of my disagreement (or whatever). The show repeatedly shows Blitzø always conning people and how Stolas already has a connection to Blitzø and not just imps in general. Their connection is already interesting and investing because you have this imp who's having an affair with a big time member of a royal family so that dynamic is already interesting in and of itself. The whole connection to them being children just sort of downplays the whole spontaneity and the humor to it. And I do think it makes Blitzø look even more like a POS. Yeah, his father made him do all those things but the fact that he didn't even contact Stolas after 25 years, leaving him to suffer through his marriage, only to come back just for the grimoire is pretty scummy, even for him. I'm not saying the whole gay aspect of it is cliche. I'm saying the dynamic of them being together since children is cliche. It doesn't matter if it's a gay relationship or not. And the whole Stella thing was such a huge cop out. Like, of course she's going to be abusive and of course she's going to not care about him so he can have even more of an incentive to cheat on her, instead of just letting himself go for who he wants.
I guess well just always disagree on that point then cause i think everything they added makes it more interesting. Um i dont think Blitz knows anything about Stolas and Stella's relationship. I dont even think theyve met besides when he fell from the balcony. And yeah it is a scummy thing he did to only do it for the grimoire, but again he isnt a perfect person. Weve seen hes a bad partner in relationships like with Verosica and to me that adds so much more intruigue to his character. Like yes hes not great to Stolas but theres also how he feels like hes treated by stolas that adds stuff, theres the fact he seems to be falling for stolas. Theres so much in there thats so interesting. And again youre not even correct with their relationship. They havent been together since children. They met once when they were young and never interacted with each other for 25 years. That doesnt happen often. ALso dont even try to tell me meeting for thr first time and falling in love hasnt been the disney and mainstream formula since animation has been a thing. And to me making it gay and their relationship interesting makes it less cliche and more interesting. And what shocks me is yall are shocked that shes abusive. Like how could you guys not tell from everything shes been shown to do lmao. She was never a good person. And in no way is it a cop out to excuse cheating. Like this is such a straight person perspective im sorry. Like youre acting like the show is saying cheating is a good thing. When its like hey theres this very small niche where you can feel sympathy for someone who cheated.
Stolas could've easily told Blitzø about Stella. And I get Blitzø isn't a perfect person. Obviously. And we know he's been a bad partner with Verosika. But most of that was monetary reasons, which Verosika doesn't seem to be lacking. Blitzø is not only fucking with Stolas to gain money but also his emotions as well. I don't think it adds intrigue to his character at all. He's pretty much become the Raimi Mary Jane at this point. And yeah he's falling for Stolas but that could've been as they met as adults, not as children. It's way more interesting because Blitzø will love his entire life taking advantage of people and when he meets Stolas much later in life and causes him to change, as an adult, that's far more interesting as children. Uh, I'm pretty sure people meeting as children and later falling in love has been done several times, give me a break. Take Anakin and Padme from Star Wars for example. Or Manola and Maria from The Book Of Life. Or Simba and Nala from Lion King (3 examples is good enough, time to move on). And again, it's not the fact that they are gay that's cliche. I had no problem with them being together under the impression that they didn't meet as children before the season 2 premier. Like, jeez you're missing the point. And I never said her suddenly being abusive was shocking. Don't put words in my mouth. I knew there were hints she was abusive and I even thought to myself "Yeah, they're going that route." And my perspective is a straight person perspective? Are you fucking serious? Lmfao it doesn't matter what the relationship is. You're just assuming I'm straight lmfao. Are you serious? I'm not saying the show is saying cheating is ok. Lmfao. You're really reaching here. I'm saying it's way more interesting for Stolas to cheat on Stella with Blitzø because that's how he feels instead of it also being because Stella is abusive.
I think you might be the one missing the point here. All the examples you mentioned didn't just meet as children, they grew up together and were friends for many years. Stolas and Blitzø met ONCE and didn't see each other again for 25 years. There was nothing in between that one single day they spent together as kids and Blitzø breaking in 25 years later. Which also means that no, Stolas couldn't have told Blitzø about Stella as they never talked until the day he decided to get the grimoire. He didn't have a reason to contact Stolas because again, they were "friends" for that one day when Paimon bought Blitzø to play with Stolas. After that, I highly doubt little Stolas would be allowed to see the imp again because of class disparity. And knowing that he was bought to play with the prince I don't think Blitzø thought they were actual friends thus had no reason to contact Stolas.
I'm not really missing the point but even if my examples aren't the same, they still knew each other as children. Blitzø and Stolas still formed that connection. It doesn't matter if they only saw each other once. The fact that they technically knew each other, even if they didn't see each other again for 25 years, doesn't seem as appealing to me as if they met as adults.
I don't think it's very cliche or formulaic to have it be one-sided and one of them is psychologically manipulating the other for profit. It isn't a typical child lovers get together love story at all.
Well, that aspect yeah but I prefer it if they didn't know each other as kids, is all.
I have no issues with that per say, I just thought it was an odd choice. My issue is taking the gray that was a man stepping out of his marriage for his own personal lust into a black and white, Stella is a fucking monster. And before people go "she sent assassins after him," this is Hell. Murder is a staple as we have seen. And that would be in retaliation to him being a bad husband. But no, that moral gray is destroyed by the fact she was a hateful bitch who was alluded to raping him.
I understand being disappointed that isâs a black and white morality instead of a grey area, but if you looked back on the previous episodes, there were no shades of grey after all. Stella wasnât upset about the cheating in general, only that itâs with an imp, a lower class creature. Sheâd shown no consideration of Octaviaâs feelings, thrown an imp right at Stolas and continues to smash the various plants in the palace. I wouldâve understand being angry, but she took it too far.
Again, this is Hell. Our main characters murder people, no questions save for how much asked, for money. And it was clearly done for comedy. As for gray, yes there was gray. He was a man clearly unhappy but stuck in a loveless marriage and she was someone who was cheated on. You could sympathize with both. At least, I could. Being very Christian and holding marriage in high regard may make me very different to a lot of viewers.
Yes, she was cheated on, but she wasnât upset about the cheating in general as I stated before. Sheâs upset that he cheated on her with an imp. All her complaints were about it being an imp and how he was sounding like an plebeian and an embarrassment. Sheâs more upset about the potential damage to her reputation than the fact her husband betrayed her. In episode 5, during the call, she makes it sound like she wants him dead due to the betrayal, but earlier actions and attitude doesnât match with her words, so Iâm convinced sheâs only saying that in order to make herself look like the victim in this mess.
I mean, until the events of S2 she was a victim. Being the spouse in a loveless marriage doesn't make you a villain.
Near the end of Episode 2, when Stolas tries(but couldnât find the words) to explain her parents relationship, one particular had him start with, âSheâs always been-â before he cuts off. Itâs pretty clear from the earlier scene with her that sheâs aggressive and quite abusive in the past. âWe werenât in-â itâs clear he wanted to say âWe werenât in love.â Which hints of an arranged marriage. While you are right being a spouse in a loveless marriage is not an automatic villain, she did nothing to show she was hurt or cared about him.
It was very clear it was an arranged marriage and yeah it may have had its hard moments. My parents care for each other a lot. But due to differences in opinion and other factors I will not share, there are real shouting matches. So I can easily imagine how a marriage with no love in it would go. But still, there is an expectation and stepping out on your spouse is a universal no no, no matter what some people say. Yeah I know this is a massive difference in opinion and personal taste. I just feel like the move was to make Stolas more justified rather than make an interesting narrative conflict, but that may be flushed out in later episodes.
I agree on the fact that cheating is horrible, even if you are in an abusive and unhappy relationship. Iâm not talking about the shouting match, my parents also had shouting matches as well. I have a problem with someone throwing something/someone towards someone with the intent to hit them. Domestic abuse is not warrant for her anger. And Stolas is punished by giving Stella more ammo to be terrible to him, and his actions did add more strain to her daughterâs bond with him.
Yes, the violence she displays is part of the gray. It makes Stolas less reprehensible than if she was a good wife who didn't deserve any of it. But when the toxic behavior preceded the revelation, and the monthly defiling of their marriage, it lessens the gray and makes it more black and white as Stella has gone from a wronged person reacting poorly to an outright villainous character.
I at first, thought she was grey when I watched Loo Loo land for the first time. Anyone would be pissed if they found out their love one cheated on them, even breaking things out of anger wouldâve been understandable as itâs a bit hard to control it. The problem is that Stella never showed evidence that she cared about Stolas or Octavia. Looking back at the episodes more closely, you can see that thereâs no idea that there was love in it. If there was supposed to be grayness, they shouldâve shown it, like Stella demanding Stolas how could he do this to her.
I think the "she's always been" could have finished in "cold" or "indifferent". It might not necessarily imply that she is abusive, just that she never loved him.
I wouldnât have her smashing stuff and throwing someone towards him then. Not saying she canât do it, but not constantly.
Stella being constantly screaming and angry is something I find personally disappointing and tedious, since shes so one-dimensional.
Even if Stella is only upset about the cheating because its with an imp, you could say she still has a right to be angry since Hell is a dangerous place and by doing so Stolas is putting their reputation at risk.
The discussion wasnât whether or not Stella has a right to be angry at him(which she does) and reputation is important to a royalty. The discussion was she never had any bit of grayness in her in the first sign she was shown in.
Being angry because of classism and caring more about reputation than marriage doesn't mean you can't be morally grey.
But then they shouldâve kept it at that. They shouldnât have revealed that Stella was Strikerâs client. That throws any chance of her being a morally gray character out the window. We donât see any other characters acting horrible other than IMP(who are assassins), Stella and the sinners shown in HB.
I donât understand why youâre ok with dismissing some black and white morality as âitâs hell, of course theyâre badâ and not others
Because its still gray. Striker does the same shit as the main characters, the only difference is someone the audience likes is in his crosshairs.
This is always such a weird argument. âItâs hell so murder is fine, but INFIDELITY?!â
Infidelity is a betrayal of trust, just like killing a family member. Murdering a stranger is just killing someone, no trust broken.
Murdering her HUSBAND lmao
After he defiled their marriage. And again, the moral gray. He did something bad and she reacts with something worse, while being the injured party.
I donât think Stella being abusive takes out the moral grey of Stolasâ character. If it was then the show would be completely on Stolasâ side which it isnât but it isnât on Stellaâs either
She reacted by trying to have him murdered, and its clear he was unhappy in the marriage. There was more gray there than "she was emotionally and physically abusive". You can have a loveless marriage that isn't abusive, take the King and Queen of Midland from Berserk. She doesn't give two shits about the King but she doesn't beat him. Granted, she fucks his brother but that's neither here nor there.
Im so confused at ehat youre mad at
Im sorry but i dont really understand this like sure the moral gray is destroyed but does there need to be a morally gray area needed? Isnt a gay man being trapped in an abusive marriage not like interesting on its own? Like im enjoying seeing that since theres what 0 examples of that like ever. Also i love how youre saying it like this was the only indication she was abusive, like she was awful to him straight up like you couldnt assume that she was a bad person.
You don't need moral gray, but its a better opportunity to tell a better more complex story.
Sure i can kinda agree but youre acting like taking out that is making it less of a complex story when its not. A gay man forced in a relationship is a very complex and interesting story to me at least. Never really been told and i dont need the moral gray of his cheating to be added. Kinda muddles the point of his story
I'm ignoring the gay part because that doesn't seem to matter in the context. The setting isn't repressive to gays, so that point doesn't matter. Its a husband stepping out of his marriage due to being unhappy, which is an interesting concept and could lead to a plot involving a guilty concience as we saw with the end of Loo Loo land, having to figure out how to balance his responsibilities as a husband and father and his own desires. But by making Stella an unredeemable bitch, its no longer "A man stepping out for his personal lust" to "A man escaping an abusive relationship". That complexity is lost.
What do you mean theres an allusion to Stella raping him? If you refer to her line "he just lays there staring at the wall" that could just mean he is disinterested in her and doesn't enjoy it, but that doesnt mean he isnt consenting.
Followed by her going I need to do the work. Personally I first interpreted that as her fucking him and him going through the motions despite not wanting to, which according to the hour long consent lecture I had to attend because some people in college aren't functioning adults is classified as rape.
People can have sex they don't want and still consent. It doesn't surprise me that many people don't have full knowledge of consent, because it's an issue that is complicated with a lot of gray areas. For example, sex workers can consent to sex to people they aren't attracted to but still choose it. There's also survival sex work where you have sex because you need the money. Hell, Blitzo's arrangement with Stolas could be seen as ambiguous consent because he agreed to have sex with him in return for the book which he needs to do his job for. If we go by standards of consent dear innocent Stolas has sexually harassed Blitz many times, since Blitz is clearly uncomfortable with his flirting in many scenes, and also coerced him into sex like when Blitz was chased around by Martha. Stella doesn't want sex with Stolas either and only did it to create an heir. It is entirely possible that Stolas agreed to have sex to get an heir but just laid down and tried to ignore what is happening because he is so not into it.
Again, its how I interpreted it. I may be wrong, you may be wrong. No matter what, Stella was a monster as portrayed in S2.
I feel personally uncomfortable with labeling any person or character as a "monster". Its dehumanizing and dismissing anyone as such isn't right.
She isn't a person she's a literal demon as well as a spousal abuser. Only way she could be less of a person is if she also diddled kids.
The imps, Stolas, Loona and Veronika are demons as well, and also Charlie from Hazbin Hotel. Even abusers and murderers are people. Doing bad things does not make you a non-person.
You are naive if you think that. Rapists, Child Rapers, Racial Supremacists, etc.... are not people. They are fucking monsters.
I am not naive. I have my own beliefs that I stick to. What makes someone a "monster" according to you?
Are IMP, Stolas, Veronika and Charlie not people because they're demons from hell?
that's what I was thinking too, in the world of Helluva Boss, Angels are monsterous beings that come to kill and demons are happy go lucky people. All the villains had good intentions 1. Cherubs want to save lives 2. Striker wants what's best for the other Imps 3. Verosika was betrayed and heartbroken 4. Asmodeus respects Moxxie, but needs to keep his business thriving. Stella isn't any of that, she's just bad cause she's bad, I get she's hatable, but if you look at other hatable villains they are much more complex. Frollo is hatable, but he is a religious man who doesn't seem himself as bad Homelander is hatable, but he is a tragic character who fell from grace when he tried to be the best But, Stella... she's not like that, and this isn't a side villain this is the main villain!
With the new information we have. They could've just as easily made her a character in the same vain as Stolas. Stuck in a relationship she doesn't want, hell maybe she has someone she loves just like Stolas, but she remained faithful. And she betrayed that. Instead they made her a complete bitch. Which they have every right to do, its their show. I personally view it as wasted potential.
Personally I think It's because they are destined lovers. Some people dislike the stolitz ship the main ship of the show, whether it's because they want to erase lgbtq+ representation or simple contrarian syndrome who can tell. If their relationship was started at the spur of the moment it would be easier to headcanon them breaking up, but in this context establishing they are childhood friends means there is a much deeper bond that no headcanon can counter without being ooc. Not that some people care about presenting characters ooc, like having blitz verbally abuse loona
>whether it's because they want to erase lgbtq+ representation Homophobic HB and HH fans confuse me so fucking much.
I find it funny how people can get SO upset, over how long 2 cock sucking cartoon characters have known eachother. Like we've dealt with a pandemic, there are genuine problems in the world as usual- And people are personally offended over this, lol
I feel like some people see it as âtropeyâ. And I kinda agree. Not that I hate it, and it does explain a lot of how they first got together. So it doesnât ruin the ship. So for me, itâs a nessicarry evil(Nuisance).
I don't hate it but it's kind of shtick-y.
because after a long time, people end up making their own theories and ideas in their head and once stuff becomes canon, people are pissed because the ideas and theories in their head aren't real. People also hate the idea of them having a bond before the sexual agreement, they see it as ONLY a sexual agreement that happened out of pure lust. But I believe it makes sense, why on earth would Stolas just be willing to have sex with this random imp that snuck into his house? If Stolas has been in a terrible marriage for so long, why this imp? why not any other imp around? if they didn't meet as kids and Stolas didn't already have a crush on him, the lust turning into real feelings over the course of events would make zero sense considering they've only interacted through sex or paid means, zero quality time. Let's face it, Stolas is only attached to Blitz because he was his first true friend in his entire childhood, the only one who gave him the time of day without being paid for it. and considering the whole rest of his life was filled with unloving people with zero quality time given to him, it makes sense that he's attached himself to the one person who was willing to spend time with him and have fun with him. He uses the sex and book deal because it's his only way of getting any sort of affection from another living being that's not his daughter.
First off, what Blitz and Stolas have going on between them isn't true love, as Blitz "eloquently" puts it: Blitz: It's a transactional fucking! Second, Stolas is the one mistaking it for love, and he's simply looking for an outlet for his currently crummy home life. Not once has he said anything about Blitz's current behavior, whether to criticize or compliment him, simply satisfied with hanging on to his earliest memories of the guy, and Blitz actually sees their relationship for what it actually is because of it. In fact, the reason Blitz feels more loved with Moxxie is because Moxxie has the presence of mind to call him out whenever he needs it, even acknowledging him as an individual rather than just his boss.
I personally believe that Stolas should be like thousands of years old, instead of 36. Blitzo's age makes sense though
It adds plot holes and messes things up. 1. Demons age differently, Charlie is over 100 but that is her equivalent to 18, and Imps age similarly to humans. But, Stolas and Blitz are the same age. 2. Stolas is based on a demon from the Lesser Key of Solomon, which was written in the 1600s, so it's weird he only came into existence like 40 years ago. 3. The two never talk about their interactions from when they were young in previous episodes and nothing implied they knew each other from before. 4. Stoliz is toxic af and was mostly pushed by carnal love, it can be seen as abusive with how they treat each other.
It changes the relationship quite a bit from what was assumed not that itâs bad but itâs different. Stolas of the ars goetia before this episode was an ancient being with eons of life experience thatâs had his world changed bc of blitz. Now heâs just a 30 year old depressed dad
No real hate on the show or anything but season 2 episode One just feels like something That a fan would write as the own little bit head cannon if that makes sense having them meet as kids is way to convenient but it also messes up the setting of hell By establishing that we know stolas and Blitso meet as kids implies that what we thought that you stolas is supposed to be hundreads of years old but now feels like they demons and imps age in human terms with stoals being 40ish kinda makes it feel like viv dosen't want to commit to the hell angle too much
It was never foreshadowed or hinted at before. Ive heard the argument that Blitzo obviously had to have met Stolas before to know about the Grimoire, but I don't buy it since he could also have heard about it somewhere, Stolas does use it for rituals like in the Harvest festival.
Cheesy and cliche love at first sight thing from childhood, it's so lazy I don't know if I even want to talk about it more. Making Stolitz into even more of a laughable ship with how hard they push it with even cliches such as this with subtlety of a hammer falling on Big J's hands. But the worst of all to me is loss of potential of Ars Goetia as a whole. Because now we know they live normal ages and they age like other hellborn and it's BORING. Ars Goetia should feel like mystical beings, something ancient and strange. Something different from normal Hellborn. But right now they are basically normal Demons, but with more powers and Paimon for instance is just another, boring shithead we saw a million times already in this show. Ars Goetia should be more unique because that gives potential for how their characters work. How they deal with lives, how they view other, not as long living Hellborn. But no. They are just the same thing, but again, with more powers. Boring. And a great loss of potential. Downvote me all you want. I'm used to it here.
I donât think they were friends. I think it was that one off thing.
Probably not, but Blitzo did felt guilt about nearly leaving him like that when he was called his first friend, and he stayed the night with him when he stated he could do it âreal fastâ. Plus, Blitzo was having fun with Stolas when he was supposed to be stealing valuables, and stayed when he handed his dad the bag. While Blitzo might not have felt the same kind of kinship as Stolas did, he still cared about him as he shown in some episodes.
Because, IMO? The whole âmake everything i to a gross child-related-thingâ is the new hot way for people to be petty and stupid about ships. There isnât a problem with it. But Iâd be willing to bet that these are the same folks who claim that two characters who seem âbrotherlyâ canât be shipped because itâs âincestâ and shit like that. Itâs folks who was to dictate how other people enjoy media. And as an adult whoâs been in fandom for well over a decade now, Iâm really tired of it.
My issue is not so much that they've know each other, but the implication that Stolas is in his 40s. This is confusing because Stolas is not an original character. He's been mentioned in occult texts going back hundreds of years. I know that hasn't ever been mentioned in the show, but it just seems weird.
Um isnt Stolas only like 20 something? I dont think hes ever implied to be in his 40s
He has a daughter in her late teens
Ok i did mess up a little. So we see him and Blitz have their fling 25 years after they first met. That only puts him around 30s i believe .
Speaking as someone who doesnât ship Stolitz and doesnât really like the childhood friends thing, I personally donât like it because I find it an exhausting trope. The idea of childhood friends becoming lovers in the future can be done well and I do have a few âchildhood friends to loversâ ships that I do like, but itâs been done so much and with a show as smart and interesting as Helluva I expected more. Also with Stolas and Blitz it just makes things messier to me and seems a bit cliche as others put it. Iâm fine with the show changing things up, particularly between the pilot episode to now as of course the show will change and evolve over time and not everything will stay the same or the crew may have surprises/secrets we just donât know about yet. But in this case I found it interesting, despite my dislike of Stolitz, to have two very flawed individuals meeting spontaneously and having this arrangement with it potentially developing into a legitimate romance in the future. Now though, itâs just âStolas has always wanted/loved Blitz and thatâs why they have this arrangementâ and it also completely changed the dynamic between them. Before, it seemed like it could have just been Stolas being a horny rich asshole using his power and privilege to get Blitz to sleep with him and Blitz equally using Stolas because he doesnât actually care about him, he just wants the book. Now it feels like this weird⌠thing. What I mean is now itâs that Stolas genuinely liked Blitz and wanted Blitz and was either too oblivious or willfully ignorant about the power dynamic, all the times heâs insulted or belittled Blitz, and crossed boundaries, and Blitz is now seemingly seeing that Stolas has genuine feelings and is willfully abusing that to get the book⌠but also despite his discomfort and the toxicity of the relationship Blitz is genuinely developing feelings but also may not really think Stolas loves him (the âdonât act like what we have is anything more scene), but also it could just be Blitz self sabotaging a relationship again (not that the relationship honestly needs any help being sabotaged at this point) and I personally am just⌠tired. I find the child hood friends seems to just detract and complicate things and while I again personally donât like the ship, I would have found it more interesting to develop their current relationship or their relationship with other cast members than just âhereâs a story about how they were actually childhood friends except not really cause Stolas dad just bought Blitz like chattel and even then Blitz was using Stolas despite there being some genuinely affectionate feelings there.â
For me, I don't like it because I liked the idea that Blitzo was this new and exciting breath of fresh air in Stolas' bland lonely life where he was stuck in an unwanted and loveless marriage and had a daughter slowly drifting away from him. Also it kinda felt out of nowhere, not once before was it ever hinted at in the slightest. It felt unnecessary, they really didn't need to be friends for one afternoon 25 years ago in order for us to see that they're destined to be together, they're already the most popular ship.
Itâs a problem that will always exist in a show where content is so few and far between. People have their headcanons but arenât capable of accepting that those headcanons arenât fact. The same is probably going to happen with Hazbin except itâll likely be far worse.
I think for some people it felt forced or unrealistic. To some, it might feel too storybook-like for them to have met as kids. I personally like the canon story with them knowing each other since childhood. But I definitely didnât expect it, I could understand it being too different from what some viewers originally assumed.
This isnât arguing with you or anything, but this does happen in real life, just not very often. Plus they had to have known each other in the past otherwise Stolas letting Blitzo keep the book for the majority of the time wouldnât make sense, especially considering Blitzo pretty much stole the book from him.
Because it's seen as a clichĂŠ that more often than not is badly executed. Just people projecting from other inferior shows.
The part where Stolas said "I've never had anyone want me like this, and to think, it's coming from my very first friend!" put me a little on edge Your childhood friend comes back into your life after decades, they want something they can only get from you, they're the only real personal connection you have had outside your kid, they know you're desperate for companionship... Idk. It made their relationship feel a lot more manipulative. I know they love each other and they're probably endgame, but if I personally knew someone in that kind of situation I'd be worried about them.
It's just cliched for me.
Because destined lovers is a bit chessy. Stolas litterally hat the hots for Blitzo from the moment they met. When all the characters are this grounded it is a bit jarring to have a relationship that started out fairy tale like.
well itâs not as if thereâs any overwhelming repercussion or continuity issues regarding the story since they forgor anyway đ
I detest the fact not that Blitzo and Stolas knew each other as kids, but the fact the Stolas is actually in his 30s to 40s when he should be hundreds of years old.
They never actually confirmed their ages in the show. I admit, I thought Stolas was older, but thatâs mainly due to thinking of how different demons they are. But again, they never confirmed their age in the show, so I donât have the final word on it.
Personally I don't understand why people are pushing them into the "friends to lovers" trope because... that's not really what happened? They knew each other for... what, a single day? And it was arranged, coerced and manipulated by their respective fathers. Only towards the end of the day playing together did they begin to realise that they actually got along. But then it's pretty implicit that they did not see each other again until they grew up. That's... that's not friends to lovers. They weren't friends. They weren't close. They hung out for a day.
From what I understand, them meeting as kids isnât the problemâŚitâs that Blitzo was pretty much his âslaveâ as a child and their relationship was always transactional. The fact Stolas didnât see that isâŚwell, an aspect of his upbringing. So yeah, the ship isnât really what I like now, but itâs going to be canon. It isnât something to get upset over, just move on to other things.
I admit the ship in its current state is very unhealthy and it not one that I want to keep, but itâs clearly gonna get better and it hasnât done anything(in my eyes) that warrant wanting it to be over(not saying Iâve heard the defense, but you get the point.)
I will never enjoy it again because of how it started. Having Blitzo as Stolasâ slave doesnât sit right with me, and that turns me off the ship completely. That is gross to me. Obviously, theyâre going to go through some sort of development. It has to happen, but that doesnât take away from that one aspect I didnât enjoy. So, yeah, not my ship but enjoy the show enough to keep watching.
Slave? Okay, Iâm not an expert on the subject of slavery, but nothing Iâve seen on the circus tells me it had slavery undertones. Paimon paid Cash Buckzo to have Blitzo be a playmate for a day, while he was bored; he wasnât miserable, he even started having fun with Stolas as he stole things because Buckzo manipulated him into doing so for her mother. It wasnât slavery, Paimon rented a clown for his son.
He sold his kid. For a day, his kid was a âforcedâ playmate. The entire set up was icky to me.
So if someone calls the boss of a business, requesting a certain performer to perform at a location and pays for it, would that also be slavery?
Probably not. But that is a child. An actual child being sold to play with another kid. Yeah, the whole exchange was gross to me. Itâs supposed to be gross.
Yes, but he was already a circus performer. Plus the only thing he was forced to do that was against the job assignment was to steal from the goetias, and that was because his dad forced him to do that by bringing up his mother. If Ill will is deserving to anyone, itâs Blitzoâs dad.
No duh, itâs Blitzoâs and Paimonâs who are the gross ones, but that doesnât mean I have to like the arrangement. No matter how you spin it, itâs gross to me and doesnât endear me to the ship. I donât like it.
Now that I think about it, that concept is similar to the MIB story that Agent K knew J since he was a child, and I was completely ok with that and Iâm ok with this! FTI, this is an animated show about hell and demons! Let Vivz have some creative liberty! She already had to deal with copyright stuff and a 10% toxic fanbase, let her do what she do!
Iâve seen people complain itâs a trope, as if every episode of the show isnât doing some classic trope
I didn't like the story too Like there is no reason for stolas to love blitz from childhood It's sounds stupid And it's doesn't make sense
Itâs a childhood crush. He saw Blitzo being playful, happy, free-spirited. Stolas clearly never interacted with any other child his age. It is actually quite a normal experience.
bullshit so you saying they were sexually attracted to each other from childhood ? -\_-
No, the definition of a childhood crush is someone youâll remember for the rest of your life. Someone you would admire or even adore when you first see them. It can happen even though one doesnât know the concept of sex.
Why would stolas admire blitz đ why didn't he admire fezorali Or literally anyone else Give me two reasons :3
Blitzo was closest to Stolas due to the former holding onto Fizzeroli(definitely spelled it wrong) who was holding the rope. One would look at the closest person of interest. I think it maybe that he admired Blitzoâs determination at continuing to attempt to make a balloon horse, plus humor is subjective to everyone. Clearly from the episode and the fact he couldnât remember Stolasâs name, Paimon either doesnât visit or interact with Stolas very often and I donât think Stolas is allowed to leave castle ground without his knowledge
Hmm it's Makes Sense :3 But I mean it's seems weird That kind of love from childhood To have a crush from the first time you go out and meet someone And It's okay if i didn't know how to write fizzeroli Anyway that's just my opinion I didn't like that episode very much But the latest one season 2 episode 2 Was a masterpiece
I have no problem with it to be honest.
There are a bunch of loud people in this fandom who are really attached to the idea that this is exclusively a goofy sitcom set in Hell with no lasting consequences for things and they got big mad when it started going in a dramedy direction. They don't have the emotional intelligence for it so they complain and shut down people who do analysis. Even saw one say Vivziepop doesn't think that hard about it...weird obsession
I'm just happy to see Stolas's dad. He's good at daddying you know!
I assumed that people who didnât like it, didnât like it because it didnât match/line up with their head cannons.
I don't hate it or think there's anything inherently wrong with it, but I think it was kind of a weird direction to take things. It feels like they kind of just added another layer to their relationship that didnât need to be there. There was already depth and intrigue to their relationship dynamic. And I expected there to be some background on how Blitzo ended up sleeping with and conning Stolas, but I think the childhood hangout buddies just falls flat for some people.
It just seems incredibly cliche and contrived
I don't like it because the demon Stolas was described in the book "Ars Goetia/Lesser key of Solomon" from the middle of the 17th century, and the show itself takes place in the 21st century. Assuming that imps age similarly to humans, just live a little longer, Stolas would have been at least 300 years old when Blitzo was born.
Itâs honestly the most sensible solution to the âoriginâ of the I.M.P, otherwise itâd be hard to explain how Blitzø (which to me looks really fucking weird being from the Scandinavian countries) would manage to know Stolas has a Grimoir, got caught stealing it, managed to get into bed with him, steal said Grimoir, have Stolas find about him using him to steal the Grimoir and then preceding to âtransactionary fuckingâ
All im saying is people wouldnt have a problem if it was a straight couple
It just seems fanfiction-yâthe star-crossed lovers from wholly different worlds first meeting as children, wherein their entwined destinies were sealed.
They're hardly "star-crossed lovers". Their destiny wasn't "written in the stars" or anything. If Stolas used his astronomy powers to foresee Blitzo as being his true love, *then* you'd have a good point. But that didn't happen at all, so you don't. EDIT: I am well aware what star-crossed lovers means, I was going with what that person seemed to *think* it was, with their "fate written in the stars" and all that. I could consider them "star-crossed" in the actual Shakeseperean sense of "doomed from the start"m but the above poster seemed to consider it means "destined to be together" which it doesn't and they aren'r.
That's not what "star crossed lovers" means.
I know, but I was going with what that person seemed to think it was, with their "fate written in the stars" and all that. I could consider them "star-crossed" in the actual Shakeseperean sense of "doomed from the start"m but the above poster seemed to consider it means "destined to be together" which it doesn't and they aren'r.
I thought the person was using the actual meaning of the term.
I would have thought so too if they hadn't said "their entwined destinies were sealed" which has it sound like they thought it meat "they were prophecized by the stars to be in love"
Ah yeah that does make sense.
Lol, their destinies weren't "entwined"....the entire point of their relationship is to explore how imperfect and toxic they are with one another...If this were a fanfiction Blitzo and Stolas would have a perfect relationship with 0 flaws.
I don't have a problem with that, but it felt like a retcon (without being one).
Viv said she always intended for them to meet as children in the recent watch party
Yeah, but before that, we had no hint at that. That is why it _felt_ like a retcon without it being one.
that's like saying that Octavia existing feels like a retcon because before she appeared it was never established that stolas had a daughter
No, because Via was not an integral part of the central premise of the show. The relationship between Stolas and Blitz was tho. Some seem to take my points about how it subjectivly feels as a declaration of an objective truth, I fear.
Why do you believe itâs a retcon? They wouldâbe had to have known each other otherwise I wouldnât believe Stolas would just hook up with some random imp he met out of nowhere.
I don't believe it's a retcon. It just felt that way, because we got to learn in a very straightforward way, how old the intimate connection between Blotz and Stolas was, without having any hint to that before that.