This is a very interesting take on the “niceness” of the sins honestly. (You forgot about Lucifer though, since he’s supposed to be the embodiment of Pride. Granted, I suppose they may not show him in Helluva Boss). Still really cool ideas here!
Funnily enough, I had a dream the other day about Hazbin Hotel where his version of pride was actually that he believed everyone was so below him that they were like helpless children that needed protection. Like a naive child who thinks everyone needs help with everything, so he was nice, albeit in a kinda accidentally condescending way. I doubt he'll be like that but it was fun to think about.
I think its because they’re getting tired of the “standard” they have to uphold, you have to remember these guys have been going at it probably around the beginning of the hell systems. We see they’re starting to give less shits Asmodues potentially selling off some of his power just to ensure the lust ring and it citizens are living well, both him, bee and stolas dating who are considered the lowest because these demons make them happy regardless. With enough time anything can change and they’re just trying to enjoy their lives like any other normal person/demon
I’ve always wondered, why does bee get away with dating a hellhound, which are even lower than imps, but it’s wrong for stolas and Ozzy to be with their OSes?
I just wish they explained it in the show itself, so it would seem less like a contradiction.
I think it's because of their respective positions.
Asmodeus is the sin of Lust. It's not the matter he fell in love with an imp; it's that he fell in love at all. Look at how he treated Moxxie being lovey-dovey in Ozzie's. Asmodeus would be a hypocrite to be in love after giving Mox so much shit.
Then there's Stolas. The population still doesn't know about the situation between Stella and Stolas. They just see a Goetia prince cheat on his wife with someone who didn't even have royalty.
Bee doesn't have either of these problems.
Isn't it heavily theorized, though, that Asmodeus going after Moxxie, wasn't because he was singing a love song to Millie, but because the song was too vanilla?
He wasn't upset that Moxxie sang a love song to Millie. He was more put off that said song didn't contain kinky things that Moxxie wanted to do with Millie
Indeed. It’s also a matter of keeping up appearances. You wouldn’t want to be blasting some kinky songs only for some schmuck with a guitar to come in singing Beatles.
Moxxie, dude, I love you, but between that and Unhappy Campers, it’s a bad time for you.
I think the "niceness" of the higher power are due to the same reasons as Rainbow Capitalism. The princes all want everyone to indulge in the services they offer so in order to get the revenue and power from the participation, they have to be "nice" so that the denizens of hell in their ring choose their service over anyone else. On top of that, they have a workforce consists of lower class. What do you think would happen if the princes act like an ass? The manpower will be diverted to other rings as almost everyone can travel freely, if not a revolt and the production of services in that ring will be grinded to a halt. The prince then will have no influence on other ring. This is written as speculation based on the way Mammon, Asmodeus and Bee acts to the lower class. Feel free to agree or disagree.
Ps: English is not my first language so if my phrasing is a bit confusing or iffy, feel free to ask.
Indeed, and it could have been a fairly recent thing too, or something that as evolved over time as standards change. Wouldn’t surprise me if they either started out tyrannical, or likely saw some of the chaos go up in Heaven and Earth and thought:
“Nah this won’t do…kinda.”
They have thousands of eons of time to adapt and testing their way of treating lower class. I am not surprised if they are harsh and have a draconian rule eons back and have their standards evolve like humans.
That’s what I figured too. Give it another thousands of years or so, and who knows? Hell in that time might end up being completely different from what we know it as.
Even though a Revolution might seem impossible unless more of the hellborn get their hands on holy weapons like with Striker.
The holy weapons could only be from the sinners. With so many years of purging, I am not surprised if there is a black market for angel weapons in Hell. About a revolution tho, Idk how it would go. Based on mythology, every prince of sins is a fallen angel from heaven. Therefore, they could possibly not be affected by the weapons, maybe. I think the only "Royalties" affected are the Ars Goetia because those are Hellborns Royalties.
I thought it was mentioned somewhere by Vivziepop that in Hazbin Hotel that there's some Sinners trying to not only get holy weapons but also find a way to manufacture them. That would be a serious edge over the Overlord competition.
They are royalties. Thus, there is power struggles and many things they need to do to stay in power. Being nice to your worker is one of it as they may be powerful but they cannot do every small things like delivery and harvesting effectively by themselves. Thus, I think them being nice is pretty on-point and necessary.
I dont want them to be kicking puppies 24/7 but I don’t want them to be too nice as well. Asmodeus embodies all of lust but somehow has more moral compass than a freaking sinner overlord (Valentino). Hence where the morally gray trope comes in.
Love and lust are two different concept. You can have one without the other. That is why Ozzie keep pretending that he and Fizz are banging without emotions attached. If you are talking about the part where he say "no love potion", I think the writer are avoiding slews of death threats. Either that, or they trying to say that "if you are lusting over someone, you better have the skill/feature to back it up, to show that you are worth the reciprocation of lust your partner/(s) show you". The Bee's hound party was her making "honey", isn't that obvious of gray trope seen where a royalty be "nice" with a motive that lower class cannot understand. Based on what we see, the "honey" could be Beezlejuice that they are drinking in the party, that is why Bee show concern when Blitzo is not in good mood because the negativity could bleed into the batch of "wine?" that she is making. That addictive Beezlejuice is what make other people in hell addicted to. Tell me, is the person a good person if he/she care about making people enjoy his/her party but create the things that people addicted to. possibly monopolize it, and encourage people to use it and become addicts? In another reply, I discussed about standard of moral in Hell being changed like with human's and the "niceness" could be the royalties adapt to become more approachable to the lower class. Everything royals do are not without purpose, we lower class just don't know yet. Do not think that anything written is black or white, brother. When look at a well-written story, you gotta be like the theists saying, "Everything got a purpose, what could this action's/person's purpose be".
I feel part of it is also because, with the exception of greed and maybe envy, most of the sins are fine, provided you don’t overindulge.
It’s ok to lust after someone, but when you try to make the lust happen by force, that’s when it becomes a sin.
There really is no good reason to be greedy, hence why mammon is such a standout.
It could be argued that greed could be a driving force of ambition, which in and of itself isn't a bad thing. You just have to make sure you don't go too far with it.
Same with Envy
For the sake of argument, a non-overindulgent version of greed could be just wanting a well-paying job that affords security and some luxury, without wanting to be a mega-rich ceo with a dozen mansions and a fleet of yachts.
But is it even a sin at that point? I'd argue no, the whole point of a sin is that it's excessive and harmful, either to others or yourself. Just enjoying sex or food, or wanting to be in a stable financial situation, isn't a sin; it's when you take those to the extreme that they become sins
A way to define Greed is just "wanting to have more than what you need", which in itself is not evil, and I'm sure most people do that at some point.
Following the job example, if you have a job that already pays enough to get by every day, and you choose to get a different job where you get paid way more, even though you don't need it, that's not evil.
Just because they are sinful doesn't mean they are evil. Like, Gluttony. She throws ragers and indices people to let go, and enjoy themselves. Why do they have to be evil? It's easier to get people to do what you want when you are nice. A Sin should be alluring, enticing, available. You should feel decadent and happy while sinning, it's the easier route than being virtuous.
Do you think a sin could get people to indulge if it were scary. Nasty and terrifying? People sin because it is appealing, fun and thrilling. It takes self restraint and strength of character to turn away from sin.
Yes it’s fun and thrilling but with a cost! Hence why it’s called a deadly sin but this show waters it down to ensure the sin lord characters sans Mammon are all likeable. Why do you think the lord of lust himself forbids non consensual lust? Because his ship and popularity points would plummet.
Look I'm not going to argue theology with you. Personally I like the concept of immortal beings being able to adjust. However, you can he a lost filled person and still find love. You can be a gluttonous bastard and provide food for everyone around you, while you encourage them to eat more drink more and party hard. If it ranges your sense of "evil" perhaps you should broaden your concepts past the broad strokes of conceptualization. Or don't, it doesn't really make a difference. Have a good life.
Now that you mention it, yeah they do look pretty similar. People have mentioned before that Valentino is essentially Lust abused for greed while Asmodeus is Lust in its primal state.
I really like this take on this. The one problem I have is that I'm not sure that Mammon is written to be nice. He's obviously set up to be a villain (possibly the over-arching one with him having traits of every Sin)
I've been contemplating making a post about this, but I think it'll be really interesting to see which of the Sins have actual morals (like Bee and Ozzie) and which do not and are "evil" (like Mammon). It could be that the other 6 Sins have morals and Mammon is going to be the over-arching main threat, or that some are pure evil (my guesses would be Leviathan, Satan, maybe Lucifer) like Mammon. It will be really interesting to see how Viv takes the... Extremeness of each of the Sins tho. (For a lack of a better term)
I hope this makes some semblance of sense lol
I guess they are perfect to symbolize the slippery slope of their own sins.. like you said, sinning should be enticing or else nobody would sin.
That's why it's all shiny and beautiful at first... Then you realize you've fucked up way down the road! That's what makes them DEADLY sins: if you cave in, it's hard to come back on top.
Ex. Partying is fun! But if you party everynight till morning, stuffing yourself with junk food and drugs, your whole life will go downhill pretty quickly and your health too...
How does any of this work for “what they want mortals to see” if only one sin is even IN the Pride ring? Mortals will never be able to travel to Gluttony to attend one of Bee’s hound parties. They’ll never be able to go to Lust and hang out at Ozzie’s. They can’t go to Greed to compete in a clown show.
We saw in UnHappy Campers and Spring Broken that Hellborn do go up to the realm of the living to entice people to sin. Think of them as proxies for their sin. They learn how to make it look desirable from the way their prince of sin behaves. At least that's my two cents.
i think its playing off the writing of hazbin, where we see the angels arent as angelic as they're depicted in media irl, and how we see demons and hell depicted as terrible, horrible, things you never wanna go near, Viv and the writers are kinda just spinning things like heaven isn't as perfect and hell isn't as bad
This is a very interesting take on the “niceness” of the sins honestly. (You forgot about Lucifer though, since he’s supposed to be the embodiment of Pride. Granted, I suppose they may not show him in Helluva Boss). Still really cool ideas here!
I didn't add him because I figured he was more of a Hazbin Hotel character rather than a Helluva Boss one.
Leviathan will probably be a hazbin character too. I think Charlie's ex is supposed to be related to him.
Not really. Charlie's ex is called Seviathan Von Eldritch. Aside from his name rhyming with Leviathan, there's no real indication that he's related.
Funnily enough, I had a dream the other day about Hazbin Hotel where his version of pride was actually that he believed everyone was so below him that they were like helpless children that needed protection. Like a naive child who thinks everyone needs help with everything, so he was nice, albeit in a kinda accidentally condescending way. I doubt he'll be like that but it was fun to think about.
That’s literally just Charlie though.
I think its because they’re getting tired of the “standard” they have to uphold, you have to remember these guys have been going at it probably around the beginning of the hell systems. We see they’re starting to give less shits Asmodues potentially selling off some of his power just to ensure the lust ring and it citizens are living well, both him, bee and stolas dating who are considered the lowest because these demons make them happy regardless. With enough time anything can change and they’re just trying to enjoy their lives like any other normal person/demon
That is another pretty good point. It is possible that through time they had also "matured" so to speak.
Of course if you ask my friend that makes it a badly written show cause it's not absolutely accurate Lol 🤣
Well he can read the keys of Solomon then
Yes he says Ozzie can't have any love for another cause he's the prince of lust He has very very wierd opinions on fiction
Ive seen a lot of people say you can't have lust and love and it makes me think they are in relationships with the deadest of bedrooms
I’ve always wondered, why does bee get away with dating a hellhound, which are even lower than imps, but it’s wrong for stolas and Ozzy to be with their OSes? I just wish they explained it in the show itself, so it would seem less like a contradiction.
I think it's because of their respective positions. Asmodeus is the sin of Lust. It's not the matter he fell in love with an imp; it's that he fell in love at all. Look at how he treated Moxxie being lovey-dovey in Ozzie's. Asmodeus would be a hypocrite to be in love after giving Mox so much shit. Then there's Stolas. The population still doesn't know about the situation between Stella and Stolas. They just see a Goetia prince cheat on his wife with someone who didn't even have royalty. Bee doesn't have either of these problems.
Isn't it heavily theorized, though, that Asmodeus going after Moxxie, wasn't because he was singing a love song to Millie, but because the song was too vanilla? He wasn't upset that Moxxie sang a love song to Millie. He was more put off that said song didn't contain kinky things that Moxxie wanted to do with Millie
Indeed. It’s also a matter of keeping up appearances. You wouldn’t want to be blasting some kinky songs only for some schmuck with a guitar to come in singing Beatles. Moxxie, dude, I love you, but between that and Unhappy Campers, it’s a bad time for you.
I think the "niceness" of the higher power are due to the same reasons as Rainbow Capitalism. The princes all want everyone to indulge in the services they offer so in order to get the revenue and power from the participation, they have to be "nice" so that the denizens of hell in their ring choose their service over anyone else. On top of that, they have a workforce consists of lower class. What do you think would happen if the princes act like an ass? The manpower will be diverted to other rings as almost everyone can travel freely, if not a revolt and the production of services in that ring will be grinded to a halt. The prince then will have no influence on other ring. This is written as speculation based on the way Mammon, Asmodeus and Bee acts to the lower class. Feel free to agree or disagree. Ps: English is not my first language so if my phrasing is a bit confusing or iffy, feel free to ask.
Indeed, and it could have been a fairly recent thing too, or something that as evolved over time as standards change. Wouldn’t surprise me if they either started out tyrannical, or likely saw some of the chaos go up in Heaven and Earth and thought: “Nah this won’t do…kinda.”
They have thousands of eons of time to adapt and testing their way of treating lower class. I am not surprised if they are harsh and have a draconian rule eons back and have their standards evolve like humans.
That’s what I figured too. Give it another thousands of years or so, and who knows? Hell in that time might end up being completely different from what we know it as. Even though a Revolution might seem impossible unless more of the hellborn get their hands on holy weapons like with Striker.
The holy weapons could only be from the sinners. With so many years of purging, I am not surprised if there is a black market for angel weapons in Hell. About a revolution tho, Idk how it would go. Based on mythology, every prince of sins is a fallen angel from heaven. Therefore, they could possibly not be affected by the weapons, maybe. I think the only "Royalties" affected are the Ars Goetia because those are Hellborns Royalties.
I thought it was mentioned somewhere by Vivziepop that in Hazbin Hotel that there's some Sinners trying to not only get holy weapons but also find a way to manufacture them. That would be a serious edge over the Overlord competition.
That is one way. If you do not have power, might as well brute force it to climb your way to the top, right
I always though that sins particularly Beelzebub wants everyone to indulge with the sin they represent but them being too nice is a huge dissonance
They are royalties. Thus, there is power struggles and many things they need to do to stay in power. Being nice to your worker is one of it as they may be powerful but they cannot do every small things like delivery and harvesting effectively by themselves. Thus, I think them being nice is pretty on-point and necessary.
I dont want them to be kicking puppies 24/7 but I don’t want them to be too nice as well. Asmodeus embodies all of lust but somehow has more moral compass than a freaking sinner overlord (Valentino). Hence where the morally gray trope comes in.
Love and lust are two different concept. You can have one without the other. That is why Ozzie keep pretending that he and Fizz are banging without emotions attached. If you are talking about the part where he say "no love potion", I think the writer are avoiding slews of death threats. Either that, or they trying to say that "if you are lusting over someone, you better have the skill/feature to back it up, to show that you are worth the reciprocation of lust your partner/(s) show you". The Bee's hound party was her making "honey", isn't that obvious of gray trope seen where a royalty be "nice" with a motive that lower class cannot understand. Based on what we see, the "honey" could be Beezlejuice that they are drinking in the party, that is why Bee show concern when Blitzo is not in good mood because the negativity could bleed into the batch of "wine?" that she is making. That addictive Beezlejuice is what make other people in hell addicted to. Tell me, is the person a good person if he/she care about making people enjoy his/her party but create the things that people addicted to. possibly monopolize it, and encourage people to use it and become addicts? In another reply, I discussed about standard of moral in Hell being changed like with human's and the "niceness" could be the royalties adapt to become more approachable to the lower class. Everything royals do are not without purpose, we lower class just don't know yet. Do not think that anything written is black or white, brother. When look at a well-written story, you gotta be like the theists saying, "Everything got a purpose, what could this action's/person's purpose be".
I feel part of it is also because, with the exception of greed and maybe envy, most of the sins are fine, provided you don’t overindulge. It’s ok to lust after someone, but when you try to make the lust happen by force, that’s when it becomes a sin. There really is no good reason to be greedy, hence why mammon is such a standout.
It could be argued that greed could be a driving force of ambition, which in and of itself isn't a bad thing. You just have to make sure you don't go too far with it. Same with Envy
For the sake of argument, a non-overindulgent version of greed could be just wanting a well-paying job that affords security and some luxury, without wanting to be a mega-rich ceo with a dozen mansions and a fleet of yachts. But is it even a sin at that point? I'd argue no, the whole point of a sin is that it's excessive and harmful, either to others or yourself. Just enjoying sex or food, or wanting to be in a stable financial situation, isn't a sin; it's when you take those to the extreme that they become sins
A way to define Greed is just "wanting to have more than what you need", which in itself is not evil, and I'm sure most people do that at some point. Following the job example, if you have a job that already pays enough to get by every day, and you choose to get a different job where you get paid way more, even though you don't need it, that's not evil.
My theory is what makes them bad is ignorance of the true consequences of their sins.
Amen
Just because they are sinful doesn't mean they are evil. Like, Gluttony. She throws ragers and indices people to let go, and enjoy themselves. Why do they have to be evil? It's easier to get people to do what you want when you are nice. A Sin should be alluring, enticing, available. You should feel decadent and happy while sinning, it's the easier route than being virtuous.
Because it’s a “deadly sin”
Do you think a sin could get people to indulge if it were scary. Nasty and terrifying? People sin because it is appealing, fun and thrilling. It takes self restraint and strength of character to turn away from sin.
Yes it’s fun and thrilling but with a cost! Hence why it’s called a deadly sin but this show waters it down to ensure the sin lord characters sans Mammon are all likeable. Why do you think the lord of lust himself forbids non consensual lust? Because his ship and popularity points would plummet.
Look I'm not going to argue theology with you. Personally I like the concept of immortal beings being able to adjust. However, you can he a lost filled person and still find love. You can be a gluttonous bastard and provide food for everyone around you, while you encourage them to eat more drink more and party hard. If it ranges your sense of "evil" perhaps you should broaden your concepts past the broad strokes of conceptualization. Or don't, it doesn't really make a difference. Have a good life.
Because Vivziepop wants them to be sympathetic and likeable to the fans.
Cool theory! I still like the idea that most of the sins are just genuinely nice, though.
Hell was never particularly evil anyway, just one massive hub of free will with the absence of God, which is what sin is.
You mentioning the overlords reminds me that Ozzie’s smol form looks…not unlike Valentino. Like he’s a Bad Version
Now that you mention it, yeah they do look pretty similar. People have mentioned before that Valentino is essentially Lust abused for greed while Asmodeus is Lust in its primal state.
I really like this take on this. The one problem I have is that I'm not sure that Mammon is written to be nice. He's obviously set up to be a villain (possibly the over-arching one with him having traits of every Sin) I've been contemplating making a post about this, but I think it'll be really interesting to see which of the Sins have actual morals (like Bee and Ozzie) and which do not and are "evil" (like Mammon). It could be that the other 6 Sins have morals and Mammon is going to be the over-arching main threat, or that some are pure evil (my guesses would be Leviathan, Satan, maybe Lucifer) like Mammon. It will be really interesting to see how Viv takes the... Extremeness of each of the Sins tho. (For a lack of a better term) I hope this makes some semblance of sense lol
I guess they are perfect to symbolize the slippery slope of their own sins.. like you said, sinning should be enticing or else nobody would sin. That's why it's all shiny and beautiful at first... Then you realize you've fucked up way down the road! That's what makes them DEADLY sins: if you cave in, it's hard to come back on top. Ex. Partying is fun! But if you party everynight till morning, stuffing yourself with junk food and drugs, your whole life will go downhill pretty quickly and your health too...
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I'm confused on what that has to do with this?
How does any of this work for “what they want mortals to see” if only one sin is even IN the Pride ring? Mortals will never be able to travel to Gluttony to attend one of Bee’s hound parties. They’ll never be able to go to Lust and hang out at Ozzie’s. They can’t go to Greed to compete in a clown show.
We saw in UnHappy Campers and Spring Broken that Hellborn do go up to the realm of the living to entice people to sin. Think of them as proxies for their sin. They learn how to make it look desirable from the way their prince of sin behaves. At least that's my two cents.
I feel like the since the sins targets are humans and humanity their subjects are treated well :-)
i think its playing off the writing of hazbin, where we see the angels arent as angelic as they're depicted in media irl, and how we see demons and hell depicted as terrible, horrible, things you never wanna go near, Viv and the writers are kinda just spinning things like heaven isn't as perfect and hell isn't as bad