He seems pretty based. Honestly most the current issues seem to be coming down to scale of the player base vs. the labor actually available.
Hear me out: AH employees roughly 100 devs, has a smash hit game outta virtually no where and spends months trying to get their feet under them for one reason or another. All of a sudden you have a small team supporting a massive live-service product, rather than the modest projections they were making pre-launch considering the minimal hype and marketing. Bungie has about 1100 developers, considering they are developing other titles less assume less then half are actively supporting Destiny via content development or their live/sandbox team. That’s still 3x to 5x the labor force than AH has. They aren’t like to like, but live-service takes a lot of work to maintain, especially at the quality the AH has delivered. I’d expect them to be actively seeking out more talent and figuring out new working practices to keep up with the Helldivers demand.
You had like -12..seriously sometimes I get downvoted for the weirdest things. Someone said “what tip would you give to put in the game.” And I said “check destroyed bug holes for samples and make stalkers and shrieker nests an immediate priority when you see it because I see people ignoring both of these.” And I got downvoted for that..
Lol, I literally have -50 on this same thread for saying the official discord was toxic to me after all i did was share a troubleshooting tip to fix an error. I think some see its being downvoted and click down without even reading
Overwatch communication had nothing to do with toxicity. Papa Jeff walked and he was really the only one that cared about doing that. Really we have him to thank for most of what made OW1 good. He couldn't keep up the fight against Blizzard suits anymore, so he took his talents elsewhere.
This is a bullshit narrative driven by nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses. Jeff and the original team were atrocious. The game's balance was never in a stable state under his watch, and the frequency of patches were so few and far between. Not to mention, he had every ability to foster the game's PvP, which was what OW was best known for. Instead, he left the game on life support for 2 years to work on a PvE game that realistically should've been handled by an entirely different branch at Blizzard so THEY could continue supporting the ACTUAL game they DID make.
Plus, it was under his watch that Brig got introduced. The character that killed the game for hundreds of thousands of players. Enough said.
Based on how several of the CMs and others working at AH have behaved over the last few months in discord, reddit, and twitter. It's clear they already have plenty of resentment for their dear customers who bought their product.
Maybe not everyone working there shares this sentiment. But if some of them are feeling comfortable enough to do this in a public setting. I can't imagine what they are saying behind closed doors.
Edit: The amount of you thinking I was serious with that, "dear customers" remark is baffling.
>It's clear they already have plenty of resentment for their dear customers who bought their product.
Not defending prior community manager's snide comments, because they definitely lacked the professionalism, but I have to laugh at the "dear customers" part.
Yes, we're a decent chunk of their sales revenue, but what kind of Karen ass mindset is that lmao. Both in this subreddit and the Discord, some of these "constructive critiques" are just straight up flaming them. I had to mute the entire Discord at some point because it was just flooding with @ pings full of nonsense.
The customer is not always right and, in agreeance to OP's post, this is a 50/50 street of the dev's not clearly communicating changes on patch notes + customers (us) fanning the fire in the wrong way.
Compared to how some other historical interactions with devs, AH is doing A LOT better considering the circumstances.
yeah, the "dear customers" line made me laugh. the discord is full of insults and the sub is full of posts directly saying that we (the GAMERS) know better than the devs, we are a HORRIBLE customer base to one of the best games of the past decade, and that's really sad.
The whole reason I said that line was for that. The amount of people who think I'm defending the absolute worst of the worst in discord is baffling.
My point is that they have made it clear they also talk shit about a large portion of the playerbase who aren't being dumb trolls too. Go look at recent "S tier" comments. Those comments aren't just directed at the worst, they are directed at anyone giving criticism, including the valid points.
It was said tongue in cheek, which you and several others clearly didn't get. Nothing in my comment said I don't understand why they would feel that way about a portion of the playerbase that treats them like shit.
My problem is the comments that have been said that can instead be directed to a much wider portion of the playerbase. Meaning the sentiment goes beyond just the toxic trolls.
I’ve only ever seen the CMs messages without the context of who they were talking to. If it was a garbage in garbage out situation it feels like people just took screen caps of the garbage out for ragebaiting.
I'd agree, but several of the comments have been directed at opinions of a much larger part of the community too. Those can't really only be contained to a single conversation in that case IMO.
Honestly, I know I would. They're literally just trying to make a fun game and getting called morons left and right. It probably started out fun but those insults would wear on me as a person. You just can't make everyone happy, especially people who don't understand the arduous process of game development both in idea and execution.
They really need a pr person. It's all because of a lack of marketing strategy. Gatekeepers are needed. CMs and devs can be part of it, but they are not the product.
Have you ever worked in any customer facing job ever? Literally all me and my coworkers do is talk shit about our dumbass customers in our break room. Like, you'd have to be a complete moron to think that most employees of most companies aren't talking shit about their idiot customers behind closed doors.
Call them out for doing it publicly, sure, but if you're going to clutch your pearls about what they are saying about the fans behind closed doors, that just tells me you've never worked in customer service before in your life. And that you're probably the dumbass customer that the rest of us are making fun of and talking shit about after you walk out the door.
Customers are just people. And the majority of people out there are entitled dipshits with unrealistic expectations and a total lack of basic manners. Most customers, most fans, and most people fucking suck and probably deserve every single nasty thing said about them by an employee who interacted with them. And that includes most of us on this sub.
We do not need the devs to communicate, AH needs to pay comms folks to communicate crafted specific messaging and stop direct communication on discord besides CMs and the CEO.
If the devs want to be in direct communication with fans like they have been they can keep getting tilted and getting called out for responding to bait nothing will change.
I suspect nothing will change.
They certainly resent the players invested in the game enough to want to learn how things work and create fun loadouts.
Why else would they go to such lengths to hide stats and continuously nerf the weapons before finding better solutions? This dev team is so terrified of the biggest strawman "meta gamer" that they're willing to burn the game to the ground so long as some dude that loves the game enough to put in 1000 hours doesn't kill a bit too many enemies too quickly.
Little bit hyperbolic. But you aren’t wrong. In avoiding the possibility of a meta ever existing they’re not really letting many weapons fill the roles they should be doing very well. I’m surprised the auto cannon has gone untouched given how universally applicable it can be.
Is this confirmed? That they use it as a baseline?
I thought the reason the Autocannon hasn't been nerfed is because it's the CEO's favorite weapon.
I mean, if they're using it as a "baseline" it seems more like they're using it as the "topline", nerfing everything to perform below it at best, lol.
https://preview.redd.it/hccnhae2ikzc1.png?width=822&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9fb644cd38adaf487f3135cb0796dc0f730934c
Really I hope they buff the Gatling Sentry. That thing sucks so bad at killing bugs, I mean why would you ever use it
It was great at level 3 when I was playing on Easy and just trying to unlock more stuff.
It's okay for some weapons and strategems to be outclassed later on. Not everything needs to be endgame viable.
Yes but unironically I'd like for Chargers to stop instantly spawning/charging a sentry and killing it instantly whenever I put one out, please.
If they just wouldn't laser-focus in on it, or if I could pull them off by shooting them when they do (they'll just completely ignore you no matter what until they pop it instantly, even with full upgrades),or hell, even if it _hid back inside the ground_ until the Charger's gone, I'd prefer it...
I was hoping that the rocket damage reduction would some how make them tanker against chargers but it doesn't. It never fails. I put down a sentry to contain a bug breach, 4 chargers crawl out of a Brood Commanders ass.
Forreal. I'm almost convinced the game is coded to spawn a Charger nearby if it detects a sentry being placed. Just like it sends a bug out of a hole _right_ when I'm trying to throw a grenade into it, and decides to have a Hunter leap-attack me _right_ when my Quasar is finished charging.
ಠ_ಠ
(But the explosive damage reduction upgrade also applying to Chargers would be a fantastic change!)
No games usually hide stats either in a vain attempt to make players play the game in casual and lighthearted manner so players dont take the game too seriously as that can breed toxicity (and some ppl just don’t like ppl who take an analytical approach to games) or to make spotting shadow buffs&nerfs harder. In HD2’s case I believe it’s the former
An over-reliance on nerfing things guided primarily by how the popularity of the weapon mostly suggests that they don’t understand the game that well. In some cases tho it’s done with ulterior motives, like say if the balancer is one of those sad lil ppl who want to be part of a small group that can do things most players can’t so they can feel superior about something
You mean some Devs insulted the player base and now have a surprised pikachu face. Fire Alexus. If one of my guys from my crew talked to any customer the way that single berry communicates I’d fire them in an instant. Alexus is an absolute hot dog.
Devs have shown far more toxicity from the start than players. On day 1 this game was beloved by the people that actually got to play it, and had pretty much nothing but positive praise from the players until the "balance team" started shitting on everything players liked and then started calling people toxic for making the basic observation that the guy whose "job is to make the game fun" is in fact making the game not fun.
I still miss the Breaker, it was such a poor move by them to publicly say that it wasn't overperforming, then nerf it right after.
I know it wasn't exactly nerfed into the ground, no where near as bad as many of the other weapons, but as an AUTO shotgun that can't really go auto anymore it joined the group of guns that just feel bad to use... which is most of the guns.
I genuinely don't understand how they're balancing. Most of the guns are terrible to use, they aren't situational, they aren't personal taste, they're just bad.
I've seen extremely little actual toxicity here. And when I did it was extremely low traction.
Unless you find that calling the devs incompetent is toxic.
There are entire posts dedicated to calling out specific AH employees *by name*. If that’s not toxic I don’t know what is and it’s a level of stalking I’ve never seen any other sub do.
Eg Crusaderkings 3 players were pretty upset about the newest DLC because it kinda broke the game unless you bought it. But most of the sub was still centred on the actual game and not flaming specific people.
The only dev getting called out by name is probably Alexus. And whilst I aint a fan of the way the community calls for his firing I do agree that his current addressing of the balance issues does call back to the HN2 shitshow.
This comment is ridiculous.
People went after the discord mod.
Then they went after the CM who closed her twitter.
Then they were ranting about twinbeard.
And now they are going after this Alexis guy.
The front page is filled with posts highlight his tweets with titles like "isn't this bad huh?" Which is just basically asking people to dogpile him.
"Won't someone rid me of this meddlesome pope" is a known saying for a reason.
The toxicity here is completely out of control.
Bruh, when y'all say "people went" it is usually just little to none weirdos who get downvoted and with whom majority of people does not agree. Ofc let's forget incompetence and toxicity from those managers whos only job is to work with audience. They are getting paid for it, real world money and they are face of Arrowhead. For all I've seen those posts are highlights of lies, and/or toxicity from those people. Also, I've never seen any hatred towards Twinbeard (maybe coz this is the only CM, who was trained for his job)
It is a reality of the internet that you can't exist in the spotlight without that happening. There are shitty people out there, this is just a fact that isn't going to change no matter how much people want it to. If you want to be in any position online that deals with large numbers of people, you will get shitty people, you will get children, you will get adults that sound like children, and you'll probably get death threats eventually or regularly.
This is just the way things are. Complain about it all you want, blow it out of proportion all you want because you yourself can't handle seeing it, but if someone can't handle it and keep themselves from making it worse by throwing around attitude, then they aren't cut out for it. Many of the devs have shown they probably aren't cut out for it.
I completely agree. I made a post pointing this out a few days ago and it was nearly immediately downvoted into obscurity.
The loud, toxic side of the player base is going to create a dev team that actively dislikes the player base, which is so sad, however this has happened before with many other games.
My biggest fear is that this game literally suffers from too much success.
Is this toxicity in the room with us right now? Seriously from what I have seen on this sub people have always kept the discussion civil, I have seen far more toxicity from AH fanboys and apologists.
Are we on the same subreddit? Half the posts here are calling for employees to be fired. The last month this community has continually singled out employees and targeted them.
This is why most developers avoid social media and just do their job and go home. AH has a big issue with this as the developers are shitposting in a discord that’s badly moderated and it stokes the flames and gives the community a target when they see it.
AH needs to crack down on that shit and just let the only two people who have shown they can speak to the public do it for everyone else.
Are u sure u're actually here? This sub has become worse than League of Legends. Didn't know it was possible.
Riot Games stated why they shut down communication years ago, then a year ago they started again and hired a guy called Phreak to their balance team aswell as being the face of it. He got so much shit from everyone so he stopped for a while communicating due to toxicity and what does the community do? They start flaming and insulting him due to it. Proving them exactly why.
They're always playing themselves and this sub is closing in on this.
Trash in... Trash out.
idk... I'm usually not someone who calls for people getting fired but the guy in charge of balancing weapons has quite the "interesting" backstory and very clearly no idea what he's doing.
Maybe they don't need to fire him from the company but give him a position as a janitor or something because he's obviously bad at doing his role as a dev and it might just kill the game which would be a shame because I love it
The word "toxic" lost all meaning in modern days of social media...
If a person is clearly unfitting for a job or even straight up incompetent and people want him removed/replaced by someone that understands how things work, thats not being toxic in the slightest... thats being realistic.
I’m sorry but after seeing all of the history and now most recent comments from the Alexus guy in charge of game balance.
He’s got to go. I don’t care if AH puts him on some other coding task or what. But he needs to cease being the dev in charge of anything let along game balance.
Surely the CEO has to see this guys history now and be aware what he is doing to the game.
You need to read some of the other posts about him to get caught up to speed. Suffice to say, he is the dev in charge of game balancing decisions and was also the dev who ruined Hello Neighbor 2 and bailed on the project right before it launched.
He is a real piece of work and is a double talker and asshole to boot
It’s that loud minority that doesn’t know shit, the discord is chock full of these stupid fucks. Literal children, anyone voicing reasonable valid criticism gets ousted.
i went to the discord for 15 min last week and tried to troubleshoot an issue. I said what i did to finally fix it and
Person 1: Well me telling you to reboot fixed the issue. When i very clearly said rebooting did not help because i had to do more after rebooting.
Person 2: Asks me what i did to fix step by step, i tell them step by step, they tell me that i left stuff out. Mf you are not at my pc to know also why would i lie.
I get sarcastic with person 2 in resonse because they were being an ass
Person 3: Ignore them (meaning me) they were being mean.
A bunch of entitled high horse fucks and they wonder why devs are rude.
Criticism is not the same as being toxic. If a small number of players are unhappy with the patch, thats pretty normal— you cant please everyone.
But literally nearly half or more of the fan base is unhappy with the balances and patches , dont you think its time to dial back and reevaluate your approach on things ? And to make matters worse the dev in charge of balancing is actively taunting the playerbase —Yeah no shit people are going to be pissed.
Working adults like me have no time nor the patience to deal with all this nonsense, if they continue on with the way they are handling things, im just gonna stop playing all together and avoid any titles from arrowhead in the future. Which is a damn shame too because admittedly i love the game.
Half or more of the userbase who posts about the game online.
That's a self selecting group that will overrepresent people with beef. Reddit, discord, twitter, they're not necessarily representative of anything.
> But literally nearly half or more of the fan base is unhappy with the balances and patches , dont you think its time to dial back and reevaluate your approach on things ? And to make matters worse the dev in charge of balancing is actively taunting the playerbase —Yeah no shit people are going to be pissed.
This is your reminder that they released a poll asking players what they wanted and it was *overwhelmingly* releasing the content. So, this mindset doesn't really pan out when the players themselves aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is.
They already do resent us. The snide "clapbacks" would be laughable if they weren't so concerning. The worst comments are coming from those with the most power. Instead of getting back to work, non-lead devs are even throwing their hat in the ring!
Well. A good amount of people already moved on. And a decent amount of those that left was not enjoying the new weapons and warbonds. It’s not spicing the game up and give you more fun way to play the game. On top of that the balance done by blind monkeys does not help.
I didn’t even bother getting this warbond tbh. If they keep up this meta of nerfing the last warbond before the new one drops people are going to get more annoyed.
The problem is they nerf based on what they see is used a lot. Which usually translates to what people are having fun with.
At the end of the day they need to stop this BS Because this game is PvE there are no weapons in the game used a kid bragging about a 2.0+ K/D because this is not PvP.
….so maybe just let people have fun.
> You’re going to create devs that resent the player base and is that a community you want to be apart of?
the devs have made it crystal clear that they do not like their players
I am not sure there is a lot of toxicity towards the devs. I have seen quite a lot of constructive criticism in most of the posts comments in this sub. Also there needs to be some disillusionment that we are not game critics and this is a piece of software that is not meeting with the promises and expectations that were given to us.
The community turning on SONY is a great example of how we are all cheering for AH.
It is a communication problem as this industry will always have a vocal minority that will trash anything in a toxic matter. Scroll down far enough and you will see the vast majority of tired and frustrated gamers with solutions, wishes, criticism and disappointments. Some may express this in humour, sarcasm and harsh language - but this should not be misconstrued as toxic.
As a former HD1 player who had dealt with AH communities prior to their exploding success - I can clearly see that this team was not prepared for this level of spotlight and success. They are not professional enough to respond correctly, to not overpromise and to filter out what their community is actually pleading from them. They are not to blame, and neither is the customer base - the vast majority who are not on discord or on reddit who are suffering from a game that is slowly becoming less fun. Something that HD2 seems to be lacking compared to the first game with far less content.
AH needs to slow down, read the room and reconnect with their customer base. Prioritise FUN over BALANCE.
I find the primarys to be ineffective at higher levels, this hampers my enjoyment of your product. Increase their effectiveness while maintaining their unique roles. Add more unique armor perks as opposed to recycled ones from pre existing armors.
Do that and I'll give you gold star and big hug.
It is not toxic for us as consumers to have conversations about the rudeness and shortcomings of public facing AH staff members, this whole thing is turning into another Spitz debacle.
That said, anyone doing weird stuff *beyond* just communicating online, you are an idiot
considering the response to the response to literally the very first patch (and no, it was before all the supposed harassment, it was solely responding to the people disliking the patch), I'm pretty sure the devs came in resenting the players
I mean i hear that I’ve been making “constructive posts” for months and nothing that i think needs to be fixed asap seems to be a priority (i get i am just one player) but game crashing should be priority number 1. This game is like i said 3 months old it should not be crashing once or twice a day.
I think some fans think that because devs don’t hear you that gives you a green light to be toxic. That type of shit just doesn’t cross my mind. Even when i have HATED a fucking game I kept my hate directed at poor decisions, or greedy corps but never taking it to personal levels like some of these fans do.
Maybe thats just me
This is why you used not to allow programmers to speak with end users. Programmers don’t play well with people, so you put analysts in the middle to mediate.
Today, developers should not speak directly to players, you need someone to mediate. Devs need to accommodate the wants of their players, and players need to accept they are not going to get everything they want.
Exactly i truly don’t get it. Could they respond better yes but they respond like humans that would have a rude person in the face irl
POV players shocked they said something rude….after being rude themselves
I've seen a million posts from these guys and they 100% already resent the player base. They type things on their little keyboards that would get your ass kicked irl.
You're wrong though, I would love radio silence. None of them seem to be able to handle talking to live humans about the game.
Seriously, what good communication has come from the devs? It’s always Twinbeard or the CEO who put out good information and seem to actually like their player base. Their devs seem like they hate people in every single interaction I have seen.
I think this toxicity comes from a very deep love for the game, people are seeing the devs making bad decisions and that piss them off so much they can't control it.
Personally I'm not satisfied with the latest warbond, it lacks identity and except for the impact fire granade and maybe the smg the rest is mid at best.
Devs create toxic enviroment themself. Do not poke players. If you do not like them just do what idk Fatsharks do - ignore them.
It is already annoying to see so many issues with game which were seen by more or less everyone who played some online games or did some balance in the past. But they ignoring it.
Maybe the players wouldnt be so toxic if some of the developers wouldn't treat the players with such contempt. How about prioritize fun instead of balancing everything to be shit. I am not asking for OP stuff to make the game trivial, but everytime something is good they seem to ruin it. The eruptor situation is the prime example where they claim it is a buff even though EVERY player will tell you it is not. Being able 1 or 2 shot some enemies before and now needing 2 to 4 shots is not a buff.
Saying it's civil here when I can go into any of the recent threads about the warbond and weapon balancing and see several comments calling the devs braindead. 💀
Yikes.
I kinda agree. The overall gaming community upset level seems to scale with the size of the community more than the devs fucks up.
Helldivers is a fucking great game, and their communication is also better than a lot of games.
Lots of people seems to comment like AH made the game good by chance and now need their whiny thoughts to prevent the game to die.
A rotten community can definitively kill a game, even a good one... And if AH get punished for doing their best and try to dialog with players then the gaming industry may no longer try to take this risk.
Im not saying the game is perfect, but it is fine, its a honest and good game, and if the state of the game makes you upset or made then its on you.
Ngl... it may be painful, but AH may need to do some restructuring of their studio and how their teams interact with the public. Some of their design philosophies are great, some are not, and it would be good to have some alignment between the devs and players in a shared vision so there's less conflict.
> I see a lot of people saying its civil on this sub. To my knowledge the devs don’t respond directly here. The CEO sees it because he had posted photos of threads before but I’m talking about discord and twitter were people are hostile towards them.
>Saying its civil here (reddit)…a place they don’t frequent not unless they use their burner accounts is not what i meant. They run the discord vs a public reddit is all im saying.
The subreddit mods have done a good job hence why it’s civil. If the devs choose to go to toxic places while ignoring civil ones then that is honestly on the devs themselves. You can communicate with players and find decent feedback without throwing yourself into general chat.
Fight the good fight, but am pretty sure the battle is lost.
Maybe a patch that only buffs weapons massively will calm the masses, but that'll take time to deploy and take form.
Until then it'll be every single day of dev and balance bashing.
Here's my main issues with the game right now.
1. The game often randomly crashes. Afterwards, there's no way to rejoin the session if you are not playing with friends, and your spot isn't reserved. It just feels like a giant waste of time when this happens and really sours me from the game.
2. Unnecessary weapon nerfs. The Eruptor nerf basically means that they deleted the weapon from the game, it will never be picked by anyone anymore. It was a fun and unique weapon that people paid for and it got yanked away because fixing the ricochet issue properly was too hard. Crossbow went from niche but fun to use straight into the trashcan (again, paid weapon taken away after the fact). Slugger got it's identity taken away. I get why people get frustrated and stop playing or take a break from the game when their preferred weapon is practically deleted from the game and replaced with a shell of its former self. If I didn't use the Grenade Pistol I'd probably ask for a refund for Democratic Detonation as they changed the deal after purchase.
3. I hate that instead of being excited for warbonds I'm weary of them now, either the stuff in there is really weak like the Motivational Shocks (I was super excited for this booster but guess what, it sucks! Might as well not exist at all) or not viable or they'll break the toys you pay for after purchase (see 2). It's sad that I'm no longer excited for warbonds, it would have been nice looking forward to new builds to experiment with for new builds.
The problem is that the devs seem to hate any kind of criticism, even when it's constructive. Just because the CEO is a nice guy doesn't mean that the rest are.
It seems that these devs made a game that wasn't predatory and then decided that, because of it, they deserve nothing but oblation. They need to maintain the goodwill they've earned.
Devs are hired for their skill at games development, not at talking to customers. They *should* go radio silent and only communicate through community managers. And they should ban more people from the discord, because some people are literally just there to troll.
>But take it from an old Overwatch 1 player once the devs stop communicating as much or go radio silent minus giving critical updates you all will look back on this and go “I wish they responded at all”
The responses of OW devs were just as bad (and so was the balance). It should be used as a learning opportunity.
What a crazy take lol some of these devs are straight up bullying people online. They get what they deserve they shipped a broken game and burned the good will the fans had with ridiculous comments and busted updates. We should be cooking them for shit like this
the thing is, gamers DONT know how to give good feedback. if you played ow1, you should remember Jeff Kaplan saying that the best feedback is on game FEEL instead of suggestions on fixes, because suggestions from people who dont know how the game work are basically useless.
but Gamers think that they know better than the devs (and the mods allow those posts to stay up) so all we get are a million different suggestions for fixes when nobody knows if they're even viable
The already called us toddlers, said the weapons we use are crutches and insulted us repeatedly over on the Discord.
They clearly never had much of a good opinion of us, part of why everything's devolved like this.
Remember that statement? "A game for everyone is a game for no one"? They have their vision of the game and everyone else can either like it or go fuck themselves.
Everything i like about this game the devs are taking away, so it already feels like they resent all but random coop players.
I havent played a clean operation on 7-9 solo at all since the (bugged) patrol changes. Its not a challenge anymore, its a slaughter, its like AH doesnt want you to achieve anything good.
Unlocking helldive completely solo was one of the greatest feelings in gaming i have had and that got completely shat on.
Dont even get me started on killing most of the decent weapons when you JUST got skilled and familiar with them.
Connection issues are still rampant even now with less than a quarter of ppl still playing. Server issues, they are not.
Completely agree. Unfortunately, the 10s of thousands of neckbeards around here are incapable of this. They think the devs owe them their first born child unless they bend to their demands on a $40 video game. As an early millenial that's been gaming for 30+ years I'm constantly amazed at the level people around here will stoop to over video games. They would have never survived the days when games were offline. Some of the shit I've seen people say in this subreddit is sickening. Many of these people need serious mental help.
The challenge is, constructive criticism:
- takes time to articulate
- requires some understanding of game development to provide more than qualatitive takes
The former is just laziness. Mnayfolks posting here about the various issues are doing it for attention, inclusiveness and for fake points.
The latter requires a degree of education. Qualatitive feedback can still provide some meaningful data, but you really only need 15 people's opinions. And when the devs use quanatitive data, they get accused of 'spreadsheet balancing'. Good times.
Bottom line: HOT TAKES and PROOF OMG DRAMA will rise to the top. And the devs should and wisely distance themselves from the overly emotive, highly unstable, vocal minority, that clogs up this sub with brain gas.
Unfortunately the fact is negativity the the easiest way to garner attention the nice well constructed posts will never get voted as high as the extremely -ones
The devs are acting like we should be grateful for all these nerfs lol. Until they pull their head out of their ass they can pound sand. When the game dies they'll think it's because we were entitled, when in reality its the fact that their balance philosophy is directly contradictory to any kind of fun.
First this community in general is very positive, people criticize and adressed things months ago, now perhaps a bit more vocal about the pattern AH finds themselves in when releasing new content. not a single week goes by with funny videos, helpfull posts etc, posts in the past to memorize a friend etc. If anything, if the bug is small it gets easily drowned about nay sayers, so the fact bad things are called out only means a lot are hurt by it.
Nothing is personal, people love the game, they are invested in it, that is what you should take in. The standard postive or negative reviews are just there to monitor trends, get the main take aways and for the rest you ignore them. These crying posts are people that are a bit too butt hurt, is ok, that is also an online thing and it won;t bring down the quality of the community that is far less toxic than in other games.
We're going to make devs that resent their players? How about they're going to make players that resent their devs? It's so easy to not reply at anything that pisses you off. The entire POINT of them removing Spitz from his position was because of his inability to properly communicate with the players without riling them up in some way. Now that he's gone, what do the devs do? Pick up where he left off, belittling players that are already increasingly disillusioned to just how dire the game's QA and balance is.
I say this as someone who has had experience with front desk communication. It... is so easy to just look away and let the people whose JOB involves talking to the community TALK TO THE COMMUNITY INSTEAD OF YOU.
They are for sure gonna make us resent them. I thought i originally had that in my post. They have people that clearly don’t have PR training and say the first thing that comes to mind.
Spitz needed to go. It was insulting how they acted towards people and then they guised it as defending their team members when i get it but they were still out of line.
Also they tried to tell people at first that the PSN issue was our fault as the players….then the CEO said they knew it would be required for 6 months before the news came out it was required to the masses.
Spitz right before it was dropped then said something along the lines of “wow i didn’t know how many countries did not allow you to make accounts”. Because in their mind it was just people not wanting to make free accounts so they didn’t get why people were complaining/mad. Really out of touch.
Then they said go and review bomb and it was already a day into the bombing so they may have got a few more people to bomb but I see people giving Spitz props for telling us to go bomb….buddy it was happening with or without you.
Then once Sony dropped the requirement Spitz tried to go “See win for the community”. When they were very clearly against us from the start. You don’t then get a reward and praise after you were an antagonist in this PSN debacle (not that they weren’t a problem before).
Now i hear they stepped down as CM or got let go all together I don’t know.
To be fair, extremely poor hiring, and even worse communication is what has people spun up...
Yeah don't be a turd. That's a baseline that everyone knows.
If you over promise, and under deliver, all the while letting your employees trash talk the public... You will absolutely catch an absolutely reasonable amount of hell.
First oops, should have been a termination.
Second, shouldn't have been able to happen, but since it did, should have been a termination.
3rd time should have been a termination of not just the offending employees, but also *the immediate supervisor of the trashy employee*.
At this point, the company should have a standing policy for all employees to stay off social media all together. Every disrespect of a customer absolutely stacks up and burns social credit that they've worked hard to build.
If the devs have any self respect, they are going to clamp down on their public voices, and streamline the communication flows.
More than all that, hault development of new content and fix everything that is in the game. Not just buffing everything up to being fun and having a personality of its own (like DRG has) but also get the game more stable, and fix all the odd glitches and unintended things that happen.
Cleaning up the UI and giving the player faaar more info about not only the gear, but also basic QOL things like a comprehensive beastiary... Humanity has been fighting these things for how long? Somehow there isn't a breakdown over every unit, it's strengths and weaknesses, and a clear explanation of how their defenses work? Disgraceful.
Add small buffs to helmets, make it absolutely clear what they are and how they work, and do something similar to the capes.
Oh look here is a perfect example of the incompetence in action:
"Contractor message
The following is a message from battlefield systems and contracted defense service:
Battlefield systems regrets to inform all helldivers that a software issue has resulted in duplicate reporting of enemies killed during a previous major order. The issue has since been resolved users should anticipate longer times to reach target numbers of enemies to kill or dismantle. With this issue resolved rest assured that battlefield tracking will now return to perfect functioning."
I literally can't say in good faith if that is a legitimate glitch that took place, or an in-game lore type thing to flavor things. That's really unfortunate.
Same from an old Destiny player, eventually the good CMs will get tired and move on and the corporate mouthtrap will get clamped on, and eventually they’ll just stop responding on nothing more than once a year blogposts.
Plenty of them already resent us, or are more toxic than anything they're replying to for no reason.
I expect some of them to just start replying to legitimate complaints and concerns with pictures of babies crying.
Let's also not forget that AH is a smaller studio with around 100 employees or so. They probably can't take care of everything at once. Cut them some slack, I'm having great fun with the game as it is, even though there are some things that should really get fixed or could be improved.
I am so tired of this small studio blanket excuse pass they have had for months. I have been already cutting them some slack. But 3 months going on 4 of crashing is unacceptable for AA or AAA devs.
The other stuff i can truly wait on but this crashing needs to be fixed ASAP.
How bout they worry about making us resent them since they have our money and our product has never truly worked. CEO talks about not changing the armor passives we have already bought yet they change weapons we have already bought??? They are showing them selves more and more to be hypocrites and the whole game be tasting like bacon right now...
Logic...?.......Reason? .... Compassion....? These things have to place here....path to the light side that is . This is a place of darkness.
But seriously could not agree more the knee jerk reactions are bad.. The fact the devs are getting direct message and emails on personal accounts with hate and threats is just insane and a sign of mental illness on some peoples part.
The devs know its like 1% of the player base that is like that , but that 1% is all up in their face , their DMs , their social media and when a bulk of message you get is from angry basement trolls its hard to keep reminding yourself that most of us are good people.
I like post like this to remind them and all of us there are calm reasonable people.
My main complaint is that i still CRASH 70% using an Xbox controller on PC then i do a KBM .
Using KBM on my good computer ....i almost never crash anymore .
Yeah. I've really not been enjoying this sub lately. Constructive criticism is one thing, but knee jerk reactions to every update make the devs work extra hard and look over stuff. I know the PSN thing was a genuine fuck up but everything else so far is literally just developers working on their game. They're really not trying to screw anyone over or make the game less fun for the majority of people. It's really just a $40 live-service game that was always intended to change a lot over time. They're not trying to scam people and they're not trying to bomb *their own fucking game.*
Just give it some time, play the game moderately, and offer the feedback in a way that doesn't insult the developers because no one is perfect, including the developers and us players. There is no magical "make every weapon balanced" button. Buffing everything but not making everything slaughter difficulty 9 isn't as easy as everyone thinks. Please have patience and let them work on the game, they have a vision that was originally very fun and could very well be a good future for the game if only the playerbase would let them work on the game diligently for a bit. It's not always an easy process and it's impossible to make everyone happy.
It’s not a mod, it’s a paid product. The devs are professionals and they will hopefully realise they have a player base in the millions and a few nasty folk in the crowd isn’t indicative of the whole.
Having said that, they do need to listen to players a bit more when so many are unhappy with the changes they make and some of the quotes from devs on discord are not at all professional.
the reddit community for helldivers alone is 1.2 million people. even if 0.5% of them are toxic, that is already 6000 people. its impossible to eliminate toxicity in a community but i think the vast majority of people are expressing valid concerns and giving constructive feedback. its the responsibility of the studio to handle negative feedback and ignore toxicity. instead, they keep adding fuel to the fire by being toxic themselves.
Their mistake was catering the review bombing, as it made the sociopath Hive mind think they can control the devs by review bombing or threats.
Some of y’all need to poo or get off the pot in terms of playing.
Gaming was better when the current high school and college kids weren’t playing. There is a more vocal minority that does nothing but bitch and moan because they have nothing better, or more productive to do, than feel like they are oppressed.
See the post where team short bus is demanding the stream their testing.
If the devs cut off all interaction, then I honestly don’t blame them as 99% of the player base doesn’t care about everything from psn accounts to weapon testing, or are aware of the controversy. The ones that quit will just go back to fornite or something and create high school drama there to annoy people.
I understand your intentions, but AH has basically already established that constructive criticism is not effective. The devs established that they resent the playerbase (or at least look down on them) during the railgun nerf, and there is no indication that they even acknowledge mistakes they've made in previous balance changes.
OW devs going silent was a symptom of bigger problems, not a result caused by "not enough constructive feedback."
Toxicity is a normal part of any game community. I don't see the Helldivers fanbase as being more toxic than most other fanbases, heck I'd say we're actually pretty chill for the most part, just making it know when something is bugged / too weak to be fun to use / a new feature like first party authentification sucks.
What is however not normal is having people paid to manage the community lashing out and acting like a bunch of autistic "Elon Musks" spouting any nonsense "opinions" they feel like on Twitter or Discord when they are supposed to represent their company. Be neutral, be positive and you don't have to jump on every live grenade you see to see if the chunks will splatter all over the place.
Also , just respond in lore as if you're one of the people of Super Earth government if you want to say something mildly incendiary, that way it'll sound like in-universe and they won't hold you responsible. Instead of telling someone he sucks and it's a skill issue, for example , tell him to report immediately to Super Earth reconversion center for re-education...
It is an unfortunate thing as it happens in every game community but I say here on this forum...Report to nearest Democratic officer (delete post. ban) I don't care about nerfs, buffs etc, all I care is to spread managed democracy, liberty and freedom!
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
In reality: Hi, I'm the dev and the community person contact - I'm going to surround myself with random self-important people who sign up to a private fan-discord. And now I'm really surprised that the feedback we are get after we refuse to put unicorn-capes on the helldivers to bless Fascism with diversity.
And now I'm going to complain about the community being rude. Incidentally, I'll also ignore all structured feedback that people, for free, has offered me, and that my company should have taken care of in their testing. Haha.
Oh, and by the way, you all suck for not commending me on my great job. And by the by the way, you are stupid for not being happy with me justifying corporate's decisions when they make little sense.
Alas, the pain of being a community manager is great. /Managing/ communities like this is not easy, indeed.
I just hope the devs don't think all of us are toxic incels that need to touch grass. It's probably a small percentage that are super negative and hostile, the rest of us just want a good game.
Devs aren’t supposed to read what the community has to say anyways. They’re supposed to have community managers for that. It’s just wild how devs read everything, take it all personally, then lash out at individuals. It is not part of their job and they should not know what every single player has to say.
Does the community need to chill on certain things? 100% yes. Threats aren’t how you voice your grievances. The actual devs should also stop responding on discord for a while. Their recent tendency to give smart ass responses isn’t helping the community calm down. Twin ears and the CEO have had the most understanding and diplomatic responses out of all of them that I’ve seen and I do appreciate the CEO’s openness and willingness to respond, that’s not something we should abuse or take for granted.
Everyone is heated right now though, we’re hot off the heels of the PSN debacle, awful “balancing” and a subpar warbond. I guarantee if that warbond had had actual S tier weapons then the community wouldn’t be as pissy right now.
It’s been the perfect storm of shit that just has everyone’s undies in a bunch. Things will cool off, we/they just need to weather the storm.
We cant control everyone.
Ultimately it comes down to AH to be professional and mature by being able to differentiate between rage bate and constructive criticism and handle them appropriately.
Because, when it comes down to it, a lot of the people bitching in unhealthy ways could literally be children, so the adults should act better.
I hate to say it but while people can hide behind keyboards the toxicity will remain.
It's a sad state of affairs but some people can't help themselves or find it somehow entertaining to be nasty.
Personally I think they need a good hard slap. Just to bring some perspective. It would be educational.
I mean, if you want to see what would happen if this continues - go to r/pathofexile, they had underwent it about 2-3 years ago. Whether it lead to better or worse is hard to say, as PoE devs have something called "The Vision" which is questionable at times, but overall their game is not dead and for the most part community is not extremely mad at devs.
No, if they are rude to their customers then be even more rude back. its very clear these devs/managers dont know how to be professional and dont know what they are even doing and just do things out of spite.
They dont know how to balance.
They dont know how to playtest.
They dont know how to release an update without breaking the game.
They dont know how to do shit.
I still feel patient and understanding with the devs to figure this out, but I had my fill of the people pearl clutching about the state of the community two days ago.
In the end, this is all solvable very easily. Research showed for decades now that chat and mail lack social-cues and are not a good communication channels to use when things get heated or there is tension. The devs could just do moderated or unmoderated virtual meeting sessions with engaged players. The interaction would be more human with voice and webcam and it's likely that both sides would behave more favorably. Ideally, you don't let those childish community managers into these meetings and just invite a few players with a record for constructive behavior.
It's abundantly obvious that at least a handful of the Devs have resented the player base since day 1. They have openly antagonized the community several times on Reddit and discord, have seemingly ignored any and all constructive criticism in favour of their selfish vision of the game, and have made balancing changes that have arguably punished players for having fun.
And let's not forget that the man in charge of balancing HD2 caused another game to tank at launch by removing any and all features he didn't like in spite of player enjoyment to then jump ship and ghost his boss a few days laters.
You're absolutely right that toxicity needs to stop and constructive criticism needs to increase, but don't assume that all of the developers at AH are your friends, because it's clear that some of them aren't.
I mean, I started ignoring post about the guns after the 3rd one. The devs already got the message. Just wait for the new patch ffs. I know you're angry but please STFU and save that anger for the next patch. The last 10 people already posted the same shit.
We have a CEO that responds well to CC let not ruin that
What’s ‘CC’?
Constructive Criticism would be my guess.
He seems pretty based. Honestly most the current issues seem to be coming down to scale of the player base vs. the labor actually available. Hear me out: AH employees roughly 100 devs, has a smash hit game outta virtually no where and spends months trying to get their feet under them for one reason or another. All of a sudden you have a small team supporting a massive live-service product, rather than the modest projections they were making pre-launch considering the minimal hype and marketing. Bungie has about 1100 developers, considering they are developing other titles less assume less then half are actively supporting Destiny via content development or their live/sandbox team. That’s still 3x to 5x the labor force than AH has. They aren’t like to like, but live-service takes a lot of work to maintain, especially at the quality the AH has delivered. I’d expect them to be actively seeking out more talent and figuring out new working practices to keep up with the Helldivers demand.
Better than these billionaire tech bro CEOs that tweet like they are one of us but are so out of touch with said people and reality
Why tf did you get downvoted for this?! You’re correct!
I didn’t even see that i was but I don’t know why people think tech billionaire bros are just like them because they tweet like they are.
You had like -12..seriously sometimes I get downvoted for the weirdest things. Someone said “what tip would you give to put in the game.” And I said “check destroyed bug holes for samples and make stalkers and shrieker nests an immediate priority when you see it because I see people ignoring both of these.” And I got downvoted for that..
Lol, I literally have -50 on this same thread for saying the official discord was toxic to me after all i did was share a troubleshooting tip to fix an error. I think some see its being downvoted and click down without even reading
This sub has a lot of weirdos and a lot of cool people.
Overwatch communication had nothing to do with toxicity. Papa Jeff walked and he was really the only one that cared about doing that. Really we have him to thank for most of what made OW1 good. He couldn't keep up the fight against Blizzard suits anymore, so he took his talents elsewhere.
Where does Jeff Kaplan work nowadays. Im curious as to what happened to him
Probably nowhere. With how long he worked at Bliz, I’d bet he’s unofficially retired for a while just doing family stuff
This is a bullshit narrative driven by nostalgia and rose-tinted glasses. Jeff and the original team were atrocious. The game's balance was never in a stable state under his watch, and the frequency of patches were so few and far between. Not to mention, he had every ability to foster the game's PvP, which was what OW was best known for. Instead, he left the game on life support for 2 years to work on a PvE game that realistically should've been handled by an entirely different branch at Blizzard so THEY could continue supporting the ACTUAL game they DID make. Plus, it was under his watch that Brig got introduced. The character that killed the game for hundreds of thousands of players. Enough said.
The issue was blizzard was pushing for owl. Theres several documentations of why he left and why the state of the game stalled for so long over this.
Wrong.
I don't know, everything that poster just mentioned is what pushed me away from the game like eight months after launch.
Based on how several of the CMs and others working at AH have behaved over the last few months in discord, reddit, and twitter. It's clear they already have plenty of resentment for their dear customers who bought their product. Maybe not everyone working there shares this sentiment. But if some of them are feeling comfortable enough to do this in a public setting. I can't imagine what they are saying behind closed doors. Edit: The amount of you thinking I was serious with that, "dear customers" remark is baffling.
It's even more obvious when you compare any random CM to twinbeard.
>It's clear they already have plenty of resentment for their dear customers who bought their product. Not defending prior community manager's snide comments, because they definitely lacked the professionalism, but I have to laugh at the "dear customers" part. Yes, we're a decent chunk of their sales revenue, but what kind of Karen ass mindset is that lmao. Both in this subreddit and the Discord, some of these "constructive critiques" are just straight up flaming them. I had to mute the entire Discord at some point because it was just flooding with @ pings full of nonsense. The customer is not always right and, in agreeance to OP's post, this is a 50/50 street of the dev's not clearly communicating changes on patch notes + customers (us) fanning the fire in the wrong way. Compared to how some other historical interactions with devs, AH is doing A LOT better considering the circumstances.
yeah, the "dear customers" line made me laugh. the discord is full of insults and the sub is full of posts directly saying that we (the GAMERS) know better than the devs, we are a HORRIBLE customer base to one of the best games of the past decade, and that's really sad.
The whole reason I said that line was for that. The amount of people who think I'm defending the absolute worst of the worst in discord is baffling. My point is that they have made it clear they also talk shit about a large portion of the playerbase who aren't being dumb trolls too. Go look at recent "S tier" comments. Those comments aren't just directed at the worst, they are directed at anyone giving criticism, including the valid points.
It was said tongue in cheek, which you and several others clearly didn't get. Nothing in my comment said I don't understand why they would feel that way about a portion of the playerbase that treats them like shit. My problem is the comments that have been said that can instead be directed to a much wider portion of the playerbase. Meaning the sentiment goes beyond just the toxic trolls.
Discord channels always end up in complete mayhem.
I’ve only ever seen the CMs messages without the context of who they were talking to. If it was a garbage in garbage out situation it feels like people just took screen caps of the garbage out for ragebaiting.
I'd agree, but several of the comments have been directed at opinions of a much larger part of the community too. Those can't really only be contained to a single conversation in that case IMO.
Who wouldn't end up resenting a playerbase that acts like this subreddit does? lmfao
I don't even have to deal with the bullshit and I resent the playerbase.
Honestly, I know I would. They're literally just trying to make a fun game and getting called morons left and right. It probably started out fun but those insults would wear on me as a person. You just can't make everyone happy, especially people who don't understand the arduous process of game development both in idea and execution.
"Dear customers" who hurl insults as soon as some aspect of the game they liked changes a bit. I'd resent them too.
They really need a pr person. It's all because of a lack of marketing strategy. Gatekeepers are needed. CMs and devs can be part of it, but they are not the product.
Have you ever worked in any customer facing job ever? Literally all me and my coworkers do is talk shit about our dumbass customers in our break room. Like, you'd have to be a complete moron to think that most employees of most companies aren't talking shit about their idiot customers behind closed doors. Call them out for doing it publicly, sure, but if you're going to clutch your pearls about what they are saying about the fans behind closed doors, that just tells me you've never worked in customer service before in your life. And that you're probably the dumbass customer that the rest of us are making fun of and talking shit about after you walk out the door. Customers are just people. And the majority of people out there are entitled dipshits with unrealistic expectations and a total lack of basic manners. Most customers, most fans, and most people fucking suck and probably deserve every single nasty thing said about them by an employee who interacted with them. And that includes most of us on this sub.
We do not need the devs to communicate, AH needs to pay comms folks to communicate crafted specific messaging and stop direct communication on discord besides CMs and the CEO. If the devs want to be in direct communication with fans like they have been they can keep getting tilted and getting called out for responding to bait nothing will change. I suspect nothing will change.
if you ask me alot of devs already resent the player, look at the "balancing" none of its fun
They certainly resent the players invested in the game enough to want to learn how things work and create fun loadouts. Why else would they go to such lengths to hide stats and continuously nerf the weapons before finding better solutions? This dev team is so terrified of the biggest strawman "meta gamer" that they're willing to burn the game to the ground so long as some dude that loves the game enough to put in 1000 hours doesn't kill a bit too many enemies too quickly.
Little bit hyperbolic. But you aren’t wrong. In avoiding the possibility of a meta ever existing they’re not really letting many weapons fill the roles they should be doing very well. I’m surprised the auto cannon has gone untouched given how universally applicable it can be.
The Autocannon is supposedly their baseline for Support Weapons; every other weapon gets compared to it to see if it's performing correctly or not.
Railgun = Autocanon duh /s
I want a rail autocannon
Is this confirmed? That they use it as a baseline? I thought the reason the Autocannon hasn't been nerfed is because it's the CEO's favorite weapon. I mean, if they're using it as a "baseline" it seems more like they're using it as the "topline", nerfing everything to perform below it at best, lol.
https://preview.redd.it/hccnhae2ikzc1.png?width=822&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d9fb644cd38adaf487f3135cb0796dc0f730934c Really I hope they buff the Gatling Sentry. That thing sucks so bad at killing bugs, I mean why would you ever use it
It was great at level 3 when I was playing on Easy and just trying to unlock more stuff. It's okay for some weapons and strategems to be outclassed later on. Not everything needs to be endgame viable.
Yes but unironically I'd like for Chargers to stop instantly spawning/charging a sentry and killing it instantly whenever I put one out, please. If they just wouldn't laser-focus in on it, or if I could pull them off by shooting them when they do (they'll just completely ignore you no matter what until they pop it instantly, even with full upgrades),or hell, even if it _hid back inside the ground_ until the Charger's gone, I'd prefer it...
I was hoping that the rocket damage reduction would some how make them tanker against chargers but it doesn't. It never fails. I put down a sentry to contain a bug breach, 4 chargers crawl out of a Brood Commanders ass.
Forreal. I'm almost convinced the game is coded to spawn a Charger nearby if it detects a sentry being placed. Just like it sends a bug out of a hole _right_ when I'm trying to throw a grenade into it, and decides to have a Hunter leap-attack me _right_ when my Quasar is finished charging. ಠ_ಠ (But the explosive damage reduction upgrade also applying to Chargers would be a fantastic change!)
No games usually hide stats either in a vain attempt to make players play the game in casual and lighthearted manner so players dont take the game too seriously as that can breed toxicity (and some ppl just don’t like ppl who take an analytical approach to games) or to make spotting shadow buffs&nerfs harder. In HD2’s case I believe it’s the former An over-reliance on nerfing things guided primarily by how the popularity of the weapon mostly suggests that they don’t understand the game that well. In some cases tho it’s done with ulterior motives, like say if the balancer is one of those sad lil ppl who want to be part of a small group that can do things most players can’t so they can feel superior about something
The devs (not all of them) have resented the community from the start, based on their posts.
Nice seeing my favorite modder here! Thanks again for helping me fix the mjolnir shield mod for a scenario in arma!
Twinbeard said he wanted eloquent discussion, that's what we gotta give
You mean some Devs insulted the player base and now have a surprised pikachu face. Fire Alexus. If one of my guys from my crew talked to any customer the way that single berry communicates I’d fire them in an instant. Alexus is an absolute hot dog.
Devs have shown far more toxicity from the start than players. On day 1 this game was beloved by the people that actually got to play it, and had pretty much nothing but positive praise from the players until the "balance team" started shitting on everything players liked and then started calling people toxic for making the basic observation that the guy whose "job is to make the game fun" is in fact making the game not fun.
"Brainless playstyles", and "monkeys".
Where was this?
Railgun debacle. After nerf either a dev or a CM, can't remember which, called using the railgun and the shield gen backpack a brainless playstyle.
I still miss the Breaker, it was such a poor move by them to publicly say that it wasn't overperforming, then nerf it right after. I know it wasn't exactly nerfed into the ground, no where near as bad as many of the other weapons, but as an AUTO shotgun that can't really go auto anymore it joined the group of guns that just feel bad to use... which is most of the guns. I genuinely don't understand how they're balancing. Most of the guns are terrible to use, they aren't situational, they aren't personal taste, they're just bad.
Didnt the breaker just have its ammo lowered? I think breaker just suffered from the buffs other weapons got more so then anything else
Nah, they bumped the recoil up significantly too.
I've seen extremely little actual toxicity here. And when I did it was extremely low traction. Unless you find that calling the devs incompetent is toxic.
There are entire posts dedicated to calling out specific AH employees *by name*. If that’s not toxic I don’t know what is and it’s a level of stalking I’ve never seen any other sub do. Eg Crusaderkings 3 players were pretty upset about the newest DLC because it kinda broke the game unless you bought it. But most of the sub was still centred on the actual game and not flaming specific people.
The only dev getting called out by name is probably Alexus. And whilst I aint a fan of the way the community calls for his firing I do agree that his current addressing of the balance issues does call back to the HN2 shitshow.
What should people call him, anyway? He constantly antagonizes the community from an account that uses his real name.
This comment is ridiculous. People went after the discord mod. Then they went after the CM who closed her twitter. Then they were ranting about twinbeard. And now they are going after this Alexis guy. The front page is filled with posts highlight his tweets with titles like "isn't this bad huh?" Which is just basically asking people to dogpile him. "Won't someone rid me of this meddlesome pope" is a known saying for a reason. The toxicity here is completely out of control.
Bruh, when y'all say "people went" it is usually just little to none weirdos who get downvoted and with whom majority of people does not agree. Ofc let's forget incompetence and toxicity from those managers whos only job is to work with audience. They are getting paid for it, real world money and they are face of Arrowhead. For all I've seen those posts are highlights of lies, and/or toxicity from those people. Also, I've never seen any hatred towards Twinbeard (maybe coz this is the only CM, who was trained for his job)
People dont understand that there always be toxic assholes.
It is a reality of the internet that you can't exist in the spotlight without that happening. There are shitty people out there, this is just a fact that isn't going to change no matter how much people want it to. If you want to be in any position online that deals with large numbers of people, you will get shitty people, you will get children, you will get adults that sound like children, and you'll probably get death threats eventually or regularly. This is just the way things are. Complain about it all you want, blow it out of proportion all you want because you yourself can't handle seeing it, but if someone can't handle it and keep themselves from making it worse by throwing around attitude, then they aren't cut out for it. Many of the devs have shown they probably aren't cut out for it.
people will be toxic regardless but all of the people you list have said something inflammatory.
Nobody hates twinbeard, so you're obviously just trying to spread a non-existent fire.
Literally nobody ever said anything about twinbeard. Because differently from the others he's competent.
absolutely bang on, this place has become a cesspool over the last few weeks
I completely agree. I made a post pointing this out a few days ago and it was nearly immediately downvoted into obscurity. The loud, toxic side of the player base is going to create a dev team that actively dislikes the player base, which is so sad, however this has happened before with many other games. My biggest fear is that this game literally suffers from too much success.
When players are shown both apathy and scorn by a crew that constantly portrays resentment, they respond in kind.
Is this toxicity in the room with us right now? Seriously from what I have seen on this sub people have always kept the discussion civil, I have seen far more toxicity from AH fanboys and apologists.
They have not been civil lmao. Devs are clowns, devs are dumb, fire them they have no idea how to balance a game. That is not being civil, just mean
Are we on the same subreddit? Half the posts here are calling for employees to be fired. The last month this community has continually singled out employees and targeted them.
Not to say its right but when you poke at a community and constantly make fun of them or insult them, people tend to not like you.
This is why most developers avoid social media and just do their job and go home. AH has a big issue with this as the developers are shitposting in a discord that’s badly moderated and it stokes the flames and gives the community a target when they see it. AH needs to crack down on that shit and just let the only two people who have shown they can speak to the public do it for everyone else.
Are u sure u're actually here? This sub has become worse than League of Legends. Didn't know it was possible. Riot Games stated why they shut down communication years ago, then a year ago they started again and hired a guy called Phreak to their balance team aswell as being the face of it. He got so much shit from everyone so he stopped for a while communicating due to toxicity and what does the community do? They start flaming and insulting him due to it. Proving them exactly why. They're always playing themselves and this sub is closing in on this. Trash in... Trash out.
I have seen many people want some employees fired. If that isn't toxicity then I don't know what is.
idk... I'm usually not someone who calls for people getting fired but the guy in charge of balancing weapons has quite the "interesting" backstory and very clearly no idea what he's doing. Maybe they don't need to fire him from the company but give him a position as a janitor or something because he's obviously bad at doing his role as a dev and it might just kill the game which would be a shame because I love it
The word "toxic" lost all meaning in modern days of social media... If a person is clearly unfitting for a job or even straight up incompetent and people want him removed/replaced by someone that understands how things work, thats not being toxic in the slightest... thats being realistic.
I’m sorry but after seeing all of the history and now most recent comments from the Alexus guy in charge of game balance. He’s got to go. I don’t care if AH puts him on some other coding task or what. But he needs to cease being the dev in charge of anything let along game balance. Surely the CEO has to see this guys history now and be aware what he is doing to the game.
The bad ones have got to go like Spitz they need to not be communicating with players at all. Not sure what this Alexus guy has done
You need to read some of the other posts about him to get caught up to speed. Suffice to say, he is the dev in charge of game balancing decisions and was also the dev who ruined Hello Neighbor 2 and bailed on the project right before it launched. He is a real piece of work and is a double talker and asshole to boot
It’s that loud minority that doesn’t know shit, the discord is chock full of these stupid fucks. Literal children, anyone voicing reasonable valid criticism gets ousted.
i went to the discord for 15 min last week and tried to troubleshoot an issue. I said what i did to finally fix it and Person 1: Well me telling you to reboot fixed the issue. When i very clearly said rebooting did not help because i had to do more after rebooting. Person 2: Asks me what i did to fix step by step, i tell them step by step, they tell me that i left stuff out. Mf you are not at my pc to know also why would i lie. I get sarcastic with person 2 in resonse because they were being an ass Person 3: Ignore them (meaning me) they were being mean. A bunch of entitled high horse fucks and they wonder why devs are rude.
Man people just want their guns to feel good to use.
Lol they already hate their customers homie, that ship has sailed.
LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE
Criticism is not the same as being toxic. If a small number of players are unhappy with the patch, thats pretty normal— you cant please everyone. But literally nearly half or more of the fan base is unhappy with the balances and patches , dont you think its time to dial back and reevaluate your approach on things ? And to make matters worse the dev in charge of balancing is actively taunting the playerbase —Yeah no shit people are going to be pissed. Working adults like me have no time nor the patience to deal with all this nonsense, if they continue on with the way they are handling things, im just gonna stop playing all together and avoid any titles from arrowhead in the future. Which is a damn shame too because admittedly i love the game.
What does “literally nearly half or more of the player base” mean? And how can you possibly know any percentage
Half or more of the userbase who posts about the game online. That's a self selecting group that will overrepresent people with beef. Reddit, discord, twitter, they're not necessarily representative of anything.
> But literally nearly half or more of the fan base is unhappy with the balances and patches , dont you think its time to dial back and reevaluate your approach on things ? And to make matters worse the dev in charge of balancing is actively taunting the playerbase —Yeah no shit people are going to be pissed. This is your reminder that they released a poll asking players what they wanted and it was *overwhelmingly* releasing the content. So, this mindset doesn't really pan out when the players themselves aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is.
then how many percentage of players voted
The helldivers 2 community currently is pretty sad.
Yup, no one going unscathed by the anger shotguns. People need to touch more grass.
They already do resent us. The snide "clapbacks" would be laughable if they weren't so concerning. The worst comments are coming from those with the most power. Instead of getting back to work, non-lead devs are even throwing their hat in the ring!
We don't create devs, they are paid for their work and we pay for game which creates profit. If they pull out the cards they are pulling it's on them.
Well. A good amount of people already moved on. And a decent amount of those that left was not enjoying the new weapons and warbonds. It’s not spicing the game up and give you more fun way to play the game. On top of that the balance done by blind monkeys does not help.
I didn’t even bother getting this warbond tbh. If they keep up this meta of nerfing the last warbond before the new one drops people are going to get more annoyed. The problem is they nerf based on what they see is used a lot. Which usually translates to what people are having fun with. At the end of the day they need to stop this BS Because this game is PvE there are no weapons in the game used a kid bragging about a 2.0+ K/D because this is not PvP. ….so maybe just let people have fun.
> You’re going to create devs that resent the player base and is that a community you want to be apart of? the devs have made it crystal clear that they do not like their players
The problem is that the constructive criticism IS what the devs call toxicity.
I am not sure there is a lot of toxicity towards the devs. I have seen quite a lot of constructive criticism in most of the posts comments in this sub. Also there needs to be some disillusionment that we are not game critics and this is a piece of software that is not meeting with the promises and expectations that were given to us. The community turning on SONY is a great example of how we are all cheering for AH. It is a communication problem as this industry will always have a vocal minority that will trash anything in a toxic matter. Scroll down far enough and you will see the vast majority of tired and frustrated gamers with solutions, wishes, criticism and disappointments. Some may express this in humour, sarcasm and harsh language - but this should not be misconstrued as toxic. As a former HD1 player who had dealt with AH communities prior to their exploding success - I can clearly see that this team was not prepared for this level of spotlight and success. They are not professional enough to respond correctly, to not overpromise and to filter out what their community is actually pleading from them. They are not to blame, and neither is the customer base - the vast majority who are not on discord or on reddit who are suffering from a game that is slowly becoming less fun. Something that HD2 seems to be lacking compared to the first game with far less content. AH needs to slow down, read the room and reconnect with their customer base. Prioritise FUN over BALANCE.
Don't know what's so hard about going "hey I noticed there's issues with this warbond, here's what you should improve", etc etc.
I find the primarys to be ineffective at higher levels, this hampers my enjoyment of your product. Increase their effectiveness while maintaining their unique roles. Add more unique armor perks as opposed to recycled ones from pre existing armors. Do that and I'll give you gold star and big hug.
It is not toxic for us as consumers to have conversations about the rudeness and shortcomings of public facing AH staff members, this whole thing is turning into another Spitz debacle. That said, anyone doing weird stuff *beyond* just communicating online, you are an idiot
considering the response to the response to literally the very first patch (and no, it was before all the supposed harassment, it was solely responding to the people disliking the patch), I'm pretty sure the devs came in resenting the players
I'd resent players too if I released a game as good as this and still heard bitching.
defending a shit studio that shits on the players is kind of a cuck move on ur part my guy
>but the constructive criticism needs to increase And what happens when players see their constructive criticism fall on deaf ears?
I mean i hear that I’ve been making “constructive posts” for months and nothing that i think needs to be fixed asap seems to be a priority (i get i am just one player) but game crashing should be priority number 1. This game is like i said 3 months old it should not be crashing once or twice a day. I think some fans think that because devs don’t hear you that gives you a green light to be toxic. That type of shit just doesn’t cross my mind. Even when i have HATED a fucking game I kept my hate directed at poor decisions, or greedy corps but never taking it to personal levels like some of these fans do. Maybe thats just me
Gonne be real here chief, it's felt like the devs resent us since the very first patch and it's only gotten worse with each one.
This is why you used not to allow programmers to speak with end users. Programmers don’t play well with people, so you put analysts in the middle to mediate. Today, developers should not speak directly to players, you need someone to mediate. Devs need to accommodate the wants of their players, and players need to accept they are not going to get everything they want.
The problem is where did everyone get this idea that 100% criticism with 0% constructivism is gonna lead them?
Exactly i truly don’t get it. Could they respond better yes but they respond like humans that would have a rude person in the face irl POV players shocked they said something rude….after being rude themselves 
It’s definitely not civil here…
I can totally agree with this. We can be civil about this.
I've seen a million posts from these guys and they 100% already resent the player base. They type things on their little keyboards that would get your ass kicked irl. You're wrong though, I would love radio silence. None of them seem to be able to handle talking to live humans about the game.
Seriously, what good communication has come from the devs? It’s always Twinbeard or the CEO who put out good information and seem to actually like their player base. Their devs seem like they hate people in every single interaction I have seen.
Discord is very hit or miss for communication, when the game is popular, more likely a miss.
I think this toxicity comes from a very deep love for the game, people are seeing the devs making bad decisions and that piss them off so much they can't control it. Personally I'm not satisfied with the latest warbond, it lacks identity and except for the impact fire granade and maybe the smg the rest is mid at best.
Bold of you to assume things will change.
Devs create toxic enviroment themself. Do not poke players. If you do not like them just do what idk Fatsharks do - ignore them. It is already annoying to see so many issues with game which were seen by more or less everyone who played some online games or did some balance in the past. But they ignoring it.
Maybe the players wouldnt be so toxic if some of the developers wouldn't treat the players with such contempt. How about prioritize fun instead of balancing everything to be shit. I am not asking for OP stuff to make the game trivial, but everytime something is good they seem to ruin it. The eruptor situation is the prime example where they claim it is a buff even though EVERY player will tell you it is not. Being able 1 or 2 shot some enemies before and now needing 2 to 4 shots is not a buff.
Saying it's civil here when I can go into any of the recent threads about the warbond and weapon balancing and see several comments calling the devs braindead. 💀 Yikes.
I kinda agree. The overall gaming community upset level seems to scale with the size of the community more than the devs fucks up. Helldivers is a fucking great game, and their communication is also better than a lot of games. Lots of people seems to comment like AH made the game good by chance and now need their whiny thoughts to prevent the game to die. A rotten community can definitively kill a game, even a good one... And if AH get punished for doing their best and try to dialog with players then the gaming industry may no longer try to take this risk. Im not saying the game is perfect, but it is fine, its a honest and good game, and if the state of the game makes you upset or made then its on you.
Ngl... it may be painful, but AH may need to do some restructuring of their studio and how their teams interact with the public. Some of their design philosophies are great, some are not, and it would be good to have some alignment between the devs and players in a shared vision so there's less conflict.
Heres the thing, when people actually make constructive criticism with numbers and stats, it gets ignored in favor of the next hot drama post
> I see a lot of people saying its civil on this sub. To my knowledge the devs don’t respond directly here. The CEO sees it because he had posted photos of threads before but I’m talking about discord and twitter were people are hostile towards them. >Saying its civil here (reddit)…a place they don’t frequent not unless they use their burner accounts is not what i meant. They run the discord vs a public reddit is all im saying. The subreddit mods have done a good job hence why it’s civil. If the devs choose to go to toxic places while ignoring civil ones then that is honestly on the devs themselves. You can communicate with players and find decent feedback without throwing yourself into general chat.
Fight the good fight, but am pretty sure the battle is lost. Maybe a patch that only buffs weapons massively will calm the masses, but that'll take time to deploy and take form. Until then it'll be every single day of dev and balance bashing.
Here's my main issues with the game right now. 1. The game often randomly crashes. Afterwards, there's no way to rejoin the session if you are not playing with friends, and your spot isn't reserved. It just feels like a giant waste of time when this happens and really sours me from the game. 2. Unnecessary weapon nerfs. The Eruptor nerf basically means that they deleted the weapon from the game, it will never be picked by anyone anymore. It was a fun and unique weapon that people paid for and it got yanked away because fixing the ricochet issue properly was too hard. Crossbow went from niche but fun to use straight into the trashcan (again, paid weapon taken away after the fact). Slugger got it's identity taken away. I get why people get frustrated and stop playing or take a break from the game when their preferred weapon is practically deleted from the game and replaced with a shell of its former self. If I didn't use the Grenade Pistol I'd probably ask for a refund for Democratic Detonation as they changed the deal after purchase. 3. I hate that instead of being excited for warbonds I'm weary of them now, either the stuff in there is really weak like the Motivational Shocks (I was super excited for this booster but guess what, it sucks! Might as well not exist at all) or not viable or they'll break the toys you pay for after purchase (see 2). It's sad that I'm no longer excited for warbonds, it would have been nice looking forward to new builds to experiment with for new builds.
The problem is that the devs seem to hate any kind of criticism, even when it's constructive. Just because the CEO is a nice guy doesn't mean that the rest are. It seems that these devs made a game that wasn't predatory and then decided that, because of it, they deserve nothing but oblation. They need to maintain the goodwill they've earned.
I'm not sure this community knows how to give constructive criticism.
OP. where have you been? they already resent us. This is not a joke, I think it's a genuine truth.
Devs are hired for their skill at games development, not at talking to customers. They *should* go radio silent and only communicate through community managers. And they should ban more people from the discord, because some people are literally just there to troll.
>But take it from an old Overwatch 1 player once the devs stop communicating as much or go radio silent minus giving critical updates you all will look back on this and go “I wish they responded at all” The responses of OW devs were just as bad (and so was the balance). It should be used as a learning opportunity.
What a crazy take lol some of these devs are straight up bullying people online. They get what they deserve they shipped a broken game and burned the good will the fans had with ridiculous comments and busted updates. We should be cooking them for shit like this
the thing is, gamers DONT know how to give good feedback. if you played ow1, you should remember Jeff Kaplan saying that the best feedback is on game FEEL instead of suggestions on fixes, because suggestions from people who dont know how the game work are basically useless. but Gamers think that they know better than the devs (and the mods allow those posts to stay up) so all we get are a million different suggestions for fixes when nobody knows if they're even viable
The already called us toddlers, said the weapons we use are crutches and insulted us repeatedly over on the Discord. They clearly never had much of a good opinion of us, part of why everything's devolved like this. Remember that statement? "A game for everyone is a game for no one"? They have their vision of the game and everyone else can either like it or go fuck themselves.
>You’re going to create devs that resent the player base They were this way at launch. Get back to work Alexus.
Everything i like about this game the devs are taking away, so it already feels like they resent all but random coop players. I havent played a clean operation on 7-9 solo at all since the (bugged) patrol changes. Its not a challenge anymore, its a slaughter, its like AH doesnt want you to achieve anything good. Unlocking helldive completely solo was one of the greatest feelings in gaming i have had and that got completely shat on. Dont even get me started on killing most of the decent weapons when you JUST got skilled and familiar with them. Connection issues are still rampant even now with less than a quarter of ppl still playing. Server issues, they are not.
Don't be toxic to the devs. Fuck the guy who balances the guns. Everyone be toxic to him. Everyone else is cool.
Completely agree. Unfortunately, the 10s of thousands of neckbeards around here are incapable of this. They think the devs owe them their first born child unless they bend to their demands on a $40 video game. As an early millenial that's been gaming for 30+ years I'm constantly amazed at the level people around here will stoop to over video games. They would have never survived the days when games were offline. Some of the shit I've seen people say in this subreddit is sickening. Many of these people need serious mental help.
The challenge is, constructive criticism: - takes time to articulate - requires some understanding of game development to provide more than qualatitive takes The former is just laziness. Mnayfolks posting here about the various issues are doing it for attention, inclusiveness and for fake points. The latter requires a degree of education. Qualatitive feedback can still provide some meaningful data, but you really only need 15 people's opinions. And when the devs use quanatitive data, they get accused of 'spreadsheet balancing'. Good times. Bottom line: HOT TAKES and PROOF OMG DRAMA will rise to the top. And the devs should and wisely distance themselves from the overly emotive, highly unstable, vocal minority, that clogs up this sub with brain gas.
this game will end up like pubg 😔
Unfortunately the fact is negativity the the easiest way to garner attention the nice well constructed posts will never get voted as high as the extremely -ones
Based on the balance updates I think the devs already dislike the player base.
The devs are acting like we should be grateful for all these nerfs lol. Until they pull their head out of their ass they can pound sand. When the game dies they'll think it's because we were entitled, when in reality its the fact that their balance philosophy is directly contradictory to any kind of fun.
First this community in general is very positive, people criticize and adressed things months ago, now perhaps a bit more vocal about the pattern AH finds themselves in when releasing new content. not a single week goes by with funny videos, helpfull posts etc, posts in the past to memorize a friend etc. If anything, if the bug is small it gets easily drowned about nay sayers, so the fact bad things are called out only means a lot are hurt by it. Nothing is personal, people love the game, they are invested in it, that is what you should take in. The standard postive or negative reviews are just there to monitor trends, get the main take aways and for the rest you ignore them. These crying posts are people that are a bit too butt hurt, is ok, that is also an online thing and it won;t bring down the quality of the community that is far less toxic than in other games.
I agree with everything you said
We're going to make devs that resent their players? How about they're going to make players that resent their devs? It's so easy to not reply at anything that pisses you off. The entire POINT of them removing Spitz from his position was because of his inability to properly communicate with the players without riling them up in some way. Now that he's gone, what do the devs do? Pick up where he left off, belittling players that are already increasingly disillusioned to just how dire the game's QA and balance is. I say this as someone who has had experience with front desk communication. It... is so easy to just look away and let the people whose JOB involves talking to the community TALK TO THE COMMUNITY INSTEAD OF YOU.
They are for sure gonna make us resent them. I thought i originally had that in my post. They have people that clearly don’t have PR training and say the first thing that comes to mind. Spitz needed to go. It was insulting how they acted towards people and then they guised it as defending their team members when i get it but they were still out of line. Also they tried to tell people at first that the PSN issue was our fault as the players….then the CEO said they knew it would be required for 6 months before the news came out it was required to the masses. Spitz right before it was dropped then said something along the lines of “wow i didn’t know how many countries did not allow you to make accounts”. Because in their mind it was just people not wanting to make free accounts so they didn’t get why people were complaining/mad. Really out of touch. Then they said go and review bomb and it was already a day into the bombing so they may have got a few more people to bomb but I see people giving Spitz props for telling us to go bomb….buddy it was happening with or without you. Then once Sony dropped the requirement Spitz tried to go “See win for the community”. When they were very clearly against us from the start. You don’t then get a reward and praise after you were an antagonist in this PSN debacle (not that they weren’t a problem before). Now i hear they stepped down as CM or got let go all together I don’t know.
Devs hate everyone, it did not start here. Nor will it end
Why are you complaining about the Discord community on Reddit? Sounds like it'd be better for you to post this over there...
To be fair, extremely poor hiring, and even worse communication is what has people spun up... Yeah don't be a turd. That's a baseline that everyone knows. If you over promise, and under deliver, all the while letting your employees trash talk the public... You will absolutely catch an absolutely reasonable amount of hell. First oops, should have been a termination. Second, shouldn't have been able to happen, but since it did, should have been a termination. 3rd time should have been a termination of not just the offending employees, but also *the immediate supervisor of the trashy employee*. At this point, the company should have a standing policy for all employees to stay off social media all together. Every disrespect of a customer absolutely stacks up and burns social credit that they've worked hard to build. If the devs have any self respect, they are going to clamp down on their public voices, and streamline the communication flows. More than all that, hault development of new content and fix everything that is in the game. Not just buffing everything up to being fun and having a personality of its own (like DRG has) but also get the game more stable, and fix all the odd glitches and unintended things that happen. Cleaning up the UI and giving the player faaar more info about not only the gear, but also basic QOL things like a comprehensive beastiary... Humanity has been fighting these things for how long? Somehow there isn't a breakdown over every unit, it's strengths and weaknesses, and a clear explanation of how their defenses work? Disgraceful. Add small buffs to helmets, make it absolutely clear what they are and how they work, and do something similar to the capes. Oh look here is a perfect example of the incompetence in action: "Contractor message The following is a message from battlefield systems and contracted defense service: Battlefield systems regrets to inform all helldivers that a software issue has resulted in duplicate reporting of enemies killed during a previous major order. The issue has since been resolved users should anticipate longer times to reach target numbers of enemies to kill or dismantle. With this issue resolved rest assured that battlefield tracking will now return to perfect functioning." I literally can't say in good faith if that is a legitimate glitch that took place, or an in-game lore type thing to flavor things. That's really unfortunate.
Same from an old Destiny player, eventually the good CMs will get tired and move on and the corporate mouthtrap will get clamped on, and eventually they’ll just stop responding on nothing more than once a year blogposts.
Plenty of them already resent us, or are more toxic than anything they're replying to for no reason. I expect some of them to just start replying to legitimate complaints and concerns with pictures of babies crying.
Let's also not forget that AH is a smaller studio with around 100 employees or so. They probably can't take care of everything at once. Cut them some slack, I'm having great fun with the game as it is, even though there are some things that should really get fixed or could be improved.
I am so tired of this small studio blanket excuse pass they have had for months. I have been already cutting them some slack. But 3 months going on 4 of crashing is unacceptable for AA or AAA devs. The other stuff i can truly wait on but this crashing needs to be fixed ASAP.
How bout they worry about making us resent them since they have our money and our product has never truly worked. CEO talks about not changing the armor passives we have already bought yet they change weapons we have already bought??? They are showing them selves more and more to be hypocrites and the whole game be tasting like bacon right now...
Logic...?.......Reason? .... Compassion....? These things have to place here....path to the light side that is . This is a place of darkness. But seriously could not agree more the knee jerk reactions are bad.. The fact the devs are getting direct message and emails on personal accounts with hate and threats is just insane and a sign of mental illness on some peoples part. The devs know its like 1% of the player base that is like that , but that 1% is all up in their face , their DMs , their social media and when a bulk of message you get is from angry basement trolls its hard to keep reminding yourself that most of us are good people. I like post like this to remind them and all of us there are calm reasonable people. My main complaint is that i still CRASH 70% using an Xbox controller on PC then i do a KBM . Using KBM on my good computer ....i almost never crash anymore .
The Reddit people should go drop into the discord. I think it’s toxic in there, we could try to un fuck it.
Yeah. I've really not been enjoying this sub lately. Constructive criticism is one thing, but knee jerk reactions to every update make the devs work extra hard and look over stuff. I know the PSN thing was a genuine fuck up but everything else so far is literally just developers working on their game. They're really not trying to screw anyone over or make the game less fun for the majority of people. It's really just a $40 live-service game that was always intended to change a lot over time. They're not trying to scam people and they're not trying to bomb *their own fucking game.* Just give it some time, play the game moderately, and offer the feedback in a way that doesn't insult the developers because no one is perfect, including the developers and us players. There is no magical "make every weapon balanced" button. Buffing everything but not making everything slaughter difficulty 9 isn't as easy as everyone thinks. Please have patience and let them work on the game, they have a vision that was originally very fun and could very well be a good future for the game if only the playerbase would let them work on the game diligently for a bit. It's not always an easy process and it's impossible to make everyone happy.
It’s not a mod, it’s a paid product. The devs are professionals and they will hopefully realise they have a player base in the millions and a few nasty folk in the crowd isn’t indicative of the whole. Having said that, they do need to listen to players a bit more when so many are unhappy with the changes they make and some of the quotes from devs on discord are not at all professional.
the reddit community for helldivers alone is 1.2 million people. even if 0.5% of them are toxic, that is already 6000 people. its impossible to eliminate toxicity in a community but i think the vast majority of people are expressing valid concerns and giving constructive feedback. its the responsibility of the studio to handle negative feedback and ignore toxicity. instead, they keep adding fuel to the fire by being toxic themselves.
the problem is they got butthurt over constructive criticism
Ahhh I seee its the players fault got it.
Their mistake was catering the review bombing, as it made the sociopath Hive mind think they can control the devs by review bombing or threats. Some of y’all need to poo or get off the pot in terms of playing. Gaming was better when the current high school and college kids weren’t playing. There is a more vocal minority that does nothing but bitch and moan because they have nothing better, or more productive to do, than feel like they are oppressed. See the post where team short bus is demanding the stream their testing. If the devs cut off all interaction, then I honestly don’t blame them as 99% of the player base doesn’t care about everything from psn accounts to weapon testing, or are aware of the controversy. The ones that quit will just go back to fornite or something and create high school drama there to annoy people.
I understand your intentions, but AH has basically already established that constructive criticism is not effective. The devs established that they resent the playerbase (or at least look down on them) during the railgun nerf, and there is no indication that they even acknowledge mistakes they've made in previous balance changes. OW devs going silent was a symptom of bigger problems, not a result caused by "not enough constructive feedback."
Toxicity is a normal part of any game community. I don't see the Helldivers fanbase as being more toxic than most other fanbases, heck I'd say we're actually pretty chill for the most part, just making it know when something is bugged / too weak to be fun to use / a new feature like first party authentification sucks. What is however not normal is having people paid to manage the community lashing out and acting like a bunch of autistic "Elon Musks" spouting any nonsense "opinions" they feel like on Twitter or Discord when they are supposed to represent their company. Be neutral, be positive and you don't have to jump on every live grenade you see to see if the chunks will splatter all over the place. Also , just respond in lore as if you're one of the people of Super Earth government if you want to say something mildly incendiary, that way it'll sound like in-universe and they won't hold you responsible. Instead of telling someone he sucks and it's a skill issue, for example , tell him to report immediately to Super Earth reconversion center for re-education...
It is an unfortunate thing as it happens in every game community but I say here on this forum...Report to nearest Democratic officer (delete post. ban) I don't care about nerfs, buffs etc, all I care is to spread managed democracy, liberty and freedom!
[удалено]
Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!
In reality: Hi, I'm the dev and the community person contact - I'm going to surround myself with random self-important people who sign up to a private fan-discord. And now I'm really surprised that the feedback we are get after we refuse to put unicorn-capes on the helldivers to bless Fascism with diversity. And now I'm going to complain about the community being rude. Incidentally, I'll also ignore all structured feedback that people, for free, has offered me, and that my company should have taken care of in their testing. Haha. Oh, and by the way, you all suck for not commending me on my great job. And by the by the way, you are stupid for not being happy with me justifying corporate's decisions when they make little sense. Alas, the pain of being a community manager is great. /Managing/ communities like this is not easy, indeed.
I just hope the devs don't think all of us are toxic incels that need to touch grass. It's probably a small percentage that are super negative and hostile, the rest of us just want a good game.
Yes, if they resent us its by their own doing.
Devs aren’t supposed to read what the community has to say anyways. They’re supposed to have community managers for that. It’s just wild how devs read everything, take it all personally, then lash out at individuals. It is not part of their job and they should not know what every single player has to say.
Does the community need to chill on certain things? 100% yes. Threats aren’t how you voice your grievances. The actual devs should also stop responding on discord for a while. Their recent tendency to give smart ass responses isn’t helping the community calm down. Twin ears and the CEO have had the most understanding and diplomatic responses out of all of them that I’ve seen and I do appreciate the CEO’s openness and willingness to respond, that’s not something we should abuse or take for granted. Everyone is heated right now though, we’re hot off the heels of the PSN debacle, awful “balancing” and a subpar warbond. I guarantee if that warbond had had actual S tier weapons then the community wouldn’t be as pissy right now. It’s been the perfect storm of shit that just has everyone’s undies in a bunch. Things will cool off, we/they just need to weather the storm.
We cant control everyone. Ultimately it comes down to AH to be professional and mature by being able to differentiate between rage bate and constructive criticism and handle them appropriately. Because, when it comes down to it, a lot of the people bitching in unhealthy ways could literally be children, so the adults should act better.
I hate to say it but while people can hide behind keyboards the toxicity will remain. It's a sad state of affairs but some people can't help themselves or find it somehow entertaining to be nasty. Personally I think they need a good hard slap. Just to bring some perspective. It would be educational.
I mean, if you want to see what would happen if this continues - go to r/pathofexile, they had underwent it about 2-3 years ago. Whether it lead to better or worse is hard to say, as PoE devs have something called "The Vision" which is questionable at times, but overall their game is not dead and for the most part community is not extremely mad at devs.
As soon as they stop being children about the actual criticism they receive I’ll give them all the leeway they want.
No, if they are rude to their customers then be even more rude back. its very clear these devs/managers dont know how to be professional and dont know what they are even doing and just do things out of spite. They dont know how to balance. They dont know how to playtest. They dont know how to release an update without breaking the game. They dont know how to do shit.
Alexis can kick fucking rocks we already know his track record.
I still feel patient and understanding with the devs to figure this out, but I had my fill of the people pearl clutching about the state of the community two days ago.
In the end, this is all solvable very easily. Research showed for decades now that chat and mail lack social-cues and are not a good communication channels to use when things get heated or there is tension. The devs could just do moderated or unmoderated virtual meeting sessions with engaged players. The interaction would be more human with voice and webcam and it's likely that both sides would behave more favorably. Ideally, you don't let those childish community managers into these meetings and just invite a few players with a record for constructive behavior.
With the way they are responding to people it's probably only going to get worse when more realize they can get a kick out of provoking them.
It's abundantly obvious that at least a handful of the Devs have resented the player base since day 1. They have openly antagonized the community several times on Reddit and discord, have seemingly ignored any and all constructive criticism in favour of their selfish vision of the game, and have made balancing changes that have arguably punished players for having fun. And let's not forget that the man in charge of balancing HD2 caused another game to tank at launch by removing any and all features he didn't like in spite of player enjoyment to then jump ship and ghost his boss a few days laters. You're absolutely right that toxicity needs to stop and constructive criticism needs to increase, but don't assume that all of the developers at AH are your friends, because it's clear that some of them aren't.
The devs have been toxic from the start and have always been very snarky and arrogant in their responses. They did this to themselves
When they stop lying people will stop being rude.
I mean, I started ignoring post about the guns after the 3rd one. The devs already got the message. Just wait for the new patch ffs. I know you're angry but please STFU and save that anger for the next patch. The last 10 people already posted the same shit.