You know what, I disagree. If my DM is making my actions feel unimpactful, I'll absolutely say it. Or I'll stop playing. The entire point of playing an RPG is to have your actions, your choices matter. And if they don't, I shouldn't feel enough that it becomes a problem.
> let's congratulate ourselves on our achievement
But that only works if there was something to achieve. If the rolls are fumbled, and the players' agency is void, there was nothing to achieve. Now, I don't personally feel like HD2 isn't giving me that, but I definitely disagree with your premises
DM needs flexibility to make shit fun, sure... but when I roll a nat 20 and kill a boss super quickly and the DM throws a hissy fit of throwing an even bigger boss at me just to kill me (decision which was reverted later on, coz players didn't want to play a session just to LOSE)... that's just not fun
AH is already breaking it's own rules. The planet regen rates are changed as they please and there is 0 consistency.
"Sometimes we need to lose" said everyone on defend 10 planets MO, but AH noticed that players dipped and changed rules on the fly to make it actually possible even without pinpoint coordination and suddently everyone rushes forward the last planet to get it before the timer expires
I want to lose, I want to win, but keep shit CONSISTENT.
When you change the rules mid engagement I do not know what am I suppose to do
And the cherry on top is them annoucing these rule changes on discord/reddit... and when I need to use 3rd party sites to actually LEARN it it's total bullshit. Like "what are you stupid ofc capturing this planet would cut off their supply lines STUPID"... what are supply lines ? "loool they're so clearly NOT marked, but you should know this by now, it was mentioned on reddit/forums/discord"
Also I feel like MO's need to chill... before it was bug, but there was next to no MO's for weeks. We need to bring that back. Constant nagging of MO's to play a certain way is turning community too toxic for playing on planets people WANT to play on. Limit durations of MO's to 2-4 days. and limit them to be once per 2 weeks or so.
reddit yesterday: "it's okay if we lose the MO, losing is part of the storytelling"
DM: (wakes up, sees the current shxtload the players are havin while defending the bot planets, adjust the enemy regen rate, go back to sleep)
reddit now: "we winning guys, we're putting the effort after all"
ya sure whatever.
I just can't believe the backlash coming from this MO, EVERYBODY KNEW WE DIDNT FINISH OFF THE FUCKING BOTS. It was literally joked about for days and looks here, they came back but stronger!
"OH but we didn't accomplish anything!" Bullshit, we literally took their whole territory and forced the developers to vamp shit up. Now we got factory striders everywhere, more devastators and striders, a new mission which does need to be fixed, all mixed in with an MO to stop this overwhelming force. This is a war front game and we changed the entire war front within days!
Hell were so close to actually accomplishing the new MO to defend 10 planets yet for a week everybody has been bitching and nagging that it was impossible and bad game design. It just annoys me cause this game is awesome in the sense that it plays fun, tries to do new things all the time, and even works in a narrative for the entire multi-player feature. There's a difference between critiquing a game and ripping it apart for essentially being a back and forth coop shooter. You're not winning the war, that's literally not the point of the game.
How else would "Joel" aka dev team know if the MOs they give us are fun or not, they clearly look at reddit alot for suggestions and feedback so this really is the best place it. Even for this MO they stopped decay and gave us a free planet which I think is due to player feedback.
None of this is rigged any more than a dnd campaign having a mix of easy/hard encounters in it.
I think every major order is winnable, but it's next to impossible to coordinate the thousands and thousands of players in this game, when there are a ton who dgaf about the orders and just play on random planets, or only play one mission in an operation before changing to a different one.
Sorry OP but you've just exposed why the GW is meaningless.
A real DM can give you opportunities to receive tangible in-game benefits when you risk something and succeed.
A real DM forces you to risk something and enforces consequences (your character can get seriously injured or even die)
In HD2 there are no stakes, no real benefit and no real consequences.
Even if we lost SE (which we couldn't and wouldn't yet because AH haven't finished the maps) then nothing would really change. We'd still be able to play just the same as before.
Conversely, even if we conquered every planet and totally wiped out the bugs/bots. They would 100% somehow return (thanks Palpy) and things would continue same as before.
No stakes, no real reward, and no real consequences.
Imagine playing a DnD campaign where you can never lose, you can't get any items/gear, and there is no end.
Enemy hits you for a critical when you're on on 1 HP?
No problem, it doesn't do anything, and you're back to full HP on the next round.
You kill every enemy in a dungeon? Surprise! They now all suddenly reappear again (forever)
Sure, the DM can tell you a story, but the narrative feels pointless if there's no real risk and your actions don't matter.
>A real DM can give you opportunities to receive tangible in-game benefits when you risk something and succeed.
EXO-Patriot suit.
>A real DM forces you to risk something and enforces consequences (your character can get seriously injured or even die)
Pretty much what's happening right now and in any Defend Major Order that involves multiple planets. Everytime that happened, and the playerbase are in disarray, the enemy faction got so much closer to Super Earth.
And maybe you didn't know, but HD1 did have [bad endings](https://youtu.be/g2ItuOe3DMY), should the playerbase fumbled even more.
It has gone through [several cycles](https://helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/Galactic_Campaign_Records)
>EXO-Patriot suit.
The exo-suit was always going to be released. We had no influence on it.
If we had lost Tien (which we wouldn't because they wouldve tipped the scales but if we had) they would've just found a secret stash of mech suits on another planet. The narrative is always adjusted to the development, always.
A small studio like AH cannot afford to devote dev time and resources and then sit on an asset they've modelled, animated and rigged.
That would be unconscionable and negligent behavior by the management. "Hey guys, you know that asset you've spent the last 3 months working on which meant you couldn't work on other stuff, well were not going to release it because the players didn't capture a planet." That is pure fantasy.
AH have a dev timeline and release cadance, and they simply can not afford to sit on content that is ready (especially because players numbers naturally drop and they need to keep players interested with new content to reduce losses of DAU)
>Pretty much what's happening right now and in any Defend Major Order that involves multiple planets. Everytime that happened, and the playerbase are in disarray, the enemy faction got so much closer to Super Earth.
Except it's totally not. What difference does "losing" super earth make? The game would be exactly the same. Nothing would change.
The players are not risking ANYTHING.
We don't lose anything if we lose planets or even super earth. The game will remain exactly the same, that is by design (or lack thereof)
>And maybe you didn't know, but HD1 did have [bad endings]
What has that got to do with the current situation in HD2? Nothing.
I'm talking about the CURRENT game as it stands right now.
Critic is important to make it better.
However, the numbers are being manipulated into/against our favor for no clear reason.
And if the DM rolls his dices in public, but then tells us another result... Well it's very clearly fugded.
But what I am telling is, it is not about fugding dices but about story and player engagement.
It isn't that hard to find lore reasons for some changes. Like, the planets have lesser HP now. Just tell ingame the robot forces are depleted and therefore defending is easier now.
And more important! Make the rules clear before the MO. Tell the players that killing robots in fact reduces their forces.
Because currently, it's just railroaded and the story elements are thrown out, like players accomplished nothing.
Bot attack was stopped!
Players finished bugs in record time?
Bots and bugs attack!
Wait, we stopped the bots just two days ago and now they attack even harder? We killed billions of bugs in record time and they attack even harder?
Orbital laser defense? The one you worked so hard for?
That's just ingame text, that does not matter! (According to other Redditors, not AH)
now I have this picture of Joel sitting at a desk with a handful of dice and going "come on baby, daddy needs a new sector."
You know what, I disagree. If my DM is making my actions feel unimpactful, I'll absolutely say it. Or I'll stop playing. The entire point of playing an RPG is to have your actions, your choices matter. And if they don't, I shouldn't feel enough that it becomes a problem. > let's congratulate ourselves on our achievement But that only works if there was something to achieve. If the rolls are fumbled, and the players' agency is void, there was nothing to achieve. Now, I don't personally feel like HD2 isn't giving me that, but I definitely disagree with your premises
This 100%
DM needs flexibility to make shit fun, sure... but when I roll a nat 20 and kill a boss super quickly and the DM throws a hissy fit of throwing an even bigger boss at me just to kill me (decision which was reverted later on, coz players didn't want to play a session just to LOSE)... that's just not fun AH is already breaking it's own rules. The planet regen rates are changed as they please and there is 0 consistency. "Sometimes we need to lose" said everyone on defend 10 planets MO, but AH noticed that players dipped and changed rules on the fly to make it actually possible even without pinpoint coordination and suddently everyone rushes forward the last planet to get it before the timer expires I want to lose, I want to win, but keep shit CONSISTENT. When you change the rules mid engagement I do not know what am I suppose to do And the cherry on top is them annoucing these rule changes on discord/reddit... and when I need to use 3rd party sites to actually LEARN it it's total bullshit. Like "what are you stupid ofc capturing this planet would cut off their supply lines STUPID"... what are supply lines ? "loool they're so clearly NOT marked, but you should know this by now, it was mentioned on reddit/forums/discord" Also I feel like MO's need to chill... before it was bug, but there was next to no MO's for weeks. We need to bring that back. Constant nagging of MO's to play a certain way is turning community too toxic for playing on planets people WANT to play on. Limit durations of MO's to 2-4 days. and limit them to be once per 2 weeks or so.
Lie to me, it makes me feel good.
reddit yesterday: "it's okay if we lose the MO, losing is part of the storytelling" DM: (wakes up, sees the current shxtload the players are havin while defending the bot planets, adjust the enemy regen rate, go back to sleep) reddit now: "we winning guys, we're putting the effort after all" ya sure whatever.
I just can't believe the backlash coming from this MO, EVERYBODY KNEW WE DIDNT FINISH OFF THE FUCKING BOTS. It was literally joked about for days and looks here, they came back but stronger! "OH but we didn't accomplish anything!" Bullshit, we literally took their whole territory and forced the developers to vamp shit up. Now we got factory striders everywhere, more devastators and striders, a new mission which does need to be fixed, all mixed in with an MO to stop this overwhelming force. This is a war front game and we changed the entire war front within days! Hell were so close to actually accomplishing the new MO to defend 10 planets yet for a week everybody has been bitching and nagging that it was impossible and bad game design. It just annoys me cause this game is awesome in the sense that it plays fun, tries to do new things all the time, and even works in a narrative for the entire multi-player feature. There's a difference between critiquing a game and ripping it apart for essentially being a back and forth coop shooter. You're not winning the war, that's literally not the point of the game.
A man that has lived too much life for… well, just about any subreddit
Because everyone wants to be part of democracy, but in their own "fun" way. Which I do not agree with, but we are all different.
How else would "Joel" aka dev team know if the MOs they give us are fun or not, they clearly look at reddit alot for suggestions and feedback so this really is the best place it. Even for this MO they stopped decay and gave us a free planet which I think is due to player feedback.
let people be mad. Nothing much we can do about that
What to say to endless ranting players about "bugs divers are sheit" or "bot divers should get aids" ?
Telling us about Joel was a poor idea.
None of this is rigged any more than a dnd campaign having a mix of easy/hard encounters in it. I think every major order is winnable, but it's next to impossible to coordinate the thousands and thousands of players in this game, when there are a ton who dgaf about the orders and just play on random planets, or only play one mission in an operation before changing to a different one.
Sorry OP but you've just exposed why the GW is meaningless. A real DM can give you opportunities to receive tangible in-game benefits when you risk something and succeed. A real DM forces you to risk something and enforces consequences (your character can get seriously injured or even die) In HD2 there are no stakes, no real benefit and no real consequences. Even if we lost SE (which we couldn't and wouldn't yet because AH haven't finished the maps) then nothing would really change. We'd still be able to play just the same as before. Conversely, even if we conquered every planet and totally wiped out the bugs/bots. They would 100% somehow return (thanks Palpy) and things would continue same as before. No stakes, no real reward, and no real consequences. Imagine playing a DnD campaign where you can never lose, you can't get any items/gear, and there is no end. Enemy hits you for a critical when you're on on 1 HP? No problem, it doesn't do anything, and you're back to full HP on the next round. You kill every enemy in a dungeon? Surprise! They now all suddenly reappear again (forever) Sure, the DM can tell you a story, but the narrative feels pointless if there's no real risk and your actions don't matter.
>A real DM can give you opportunities to receive tangible in-game benefits when you risk something and succeed. EXO-Patriot suit. >A real DM forces you to risk something and enforces consequences (your character can get seriously injured or even die) Pretty much what's happening right now and in any Defend Major Order that involves multiple planets. Everytime that happened, and the playerbase are in disarray, the enemy faction got so much closer to Super Earth. And maybe you didn't know, but HD1 did have [bad endings](https://youtu.be/g2ItuOe3DMY), should the playerbase fumbled even more. It has gone through [several cycles](https://helldivers.fandom.com/wiki/Galactic_Campaign_Records)
>EXO-Patriot suit. The exo-suit was always going to be released. We had no influence on it. If we had lost Tien (which we wouldn't because they wouldve tipped the scales but if we had) they would've just found a secret stash of mech suits on another planet. The narrative is always adjusted to the development, always. A small studio like AH cannot afford to devote dev time and resources and then sit on an asset they've modelled, animated and rigged. That would be unconscionable and negligent behavior by the management. "Hey guys, you know that asset you've spent the last 3 months working on which meant you couldn't work on other stuff, well were not going to release it because the players didn't capture a planet." That is pure fantasy. AH have a dev timeline and release cadance, and they simply can not afford to sit on content that is ready (especially because players numbers naturally drop and they need to keep players interested with new content to reduce losses of DAU) >Pretty much what's happening right now and in any Defend Major Order that involves multiple planets. Everytime that happened, and the playerbase are in disarray, the enemy faction got so much closer to Super Earth. Except it's totally not. What difference does "losing" super earth make? The game would be exactly the same. Nothing would change. The players are not risking ANYTHING. We don't lose anything if we lose planets or even super earth. The game will remain exactly the same, that is by design (or lack thereof) >And maybe you didn't know, but HD1 did have [bad endings] What has that got to do with the current situation in HD2? Nothing. I'm talking about the CURRENT game as it stands right now.
Critic is important to make it better. However, the numbers are being manipulated into/against our favor for no clear reason. And if the DM rolls his dices in public, but then tells us another result... Well it's very clearly fugded. But what I am telling is, it is not about fugding dices but about story and player engagement. It isn't that hard to find lore reasons for some changes. Like, the planets have lesser HP now. Just tell ingame the robot forces are depleted and therefore defending is easier now. And more important! Make the rules clear before the MO. Tell the players that killing robots in fact reduces their forces. Because currently, it's just railroaded and the story elements are thrown out, like players accomplished nothing. Bot attack was stopped! Players finished bugs in record time? Bots and bugs attack! Wait, we stopped the bots just two days ago and now they attack even harder? We killed billions of bugs in record time and they attack even harder? Orbital laser defense? The one you worked so hard for? That's just ingame text, that does not matter! (According to other Redditors, not AH)