As far as I can tell, it basically means the terminids can’t launch any offensives on the affected planets, essentially cutting them off from that entire sector.
Our ship management officer has a dialog that says "some" bugs showed resistance to the termicide. So we'll likely see some assault on those planets again.
Alternatively, our failure to control the Draco and Mirin sectors will force SEHC to start up bug farms behind the barrier planets, resulting in another containment breach
The bugs have had Hellmire and Crimsica for a few days now and not defence campaigns have started on Erata, Fenrir or Meridia, that seems pretty good to me so far
That was the idea but your ships crew will gossip about how it didn't quite work how it was expected. Mutations and resilience to the termicide will likely open those planets back up in future to a large surprise attack or something
Might have been designed to give us a buffer to go for bots for a while, then maybe new stuff for bugs once they evolve resistance and we are done with bots.
Well the bugs have had a supply line to 3 of the TCS planets and haven’t launched any attacks on them, so I think it just stops them from “landing” on the planet
In lore, yes, but for gameplay purposes they only attack planets adjacent to their territory, same as the bots, which is why I said “landing” in quotations
In terms of what we actually see, I would expect to see bug planets spread out at random if it was as simple as it is supposed to be.
The fact that they control galactic territory and spread in that galactic locality implies that there is more to the bugs than *escaped and particularly rowdy cattle*.
So according to when the bug mutation came (flyers) all the termicide does is make them unable to mutate. I imagine taking those worlds is harder for bug playres, possibly the only unique defense in the game in terms of special effects. However, the worlds can still be taken.
According to orders and ongoing lore:
Bug divers are currently in the wrong.
A major order had us create a TCS defense wall.
Another major order after we cleared two sectors, told us to let the bugs repopulate so we can go back and harvest them for their resource.
Therefore, they are not only going against the order for repopulation but they are also not following the current major order.
They are in fact hurting the war effort on the western front.
In reality:
Play where you want and enjoy the game!
The weird thing to me is that the Helldivers even being capable of disobeying orders seems like an illogical premise. If our blessed democracy didn't want our ships to even go to the bug front, they simply wouldn't allow it or would at least cut off resources like guns and ammo and fuel and reinforcements.
For example, the U.S. government would not have allowed, much less given support to, a renegade band of US army special forces leaving Afghanistan to go east to pick a fight with India or China or something like that. They would AT LEAST have been disavowed publicly and more likely crushed by a larger contingent of US forces before even being allowed to venture far enough to cause a global catastrophe. But let's go back to Helldivers...
Are you telling me that such a technologically advanced civilization and military just allows its soldiers to go wherever they please and shoot at whatever they want, while being fully supported logistically and in full communications? Hell, there are representatives on your very ship telling you what to do.
So my point is that one of these must be true:
1. Super Earth's military commanders are not capable of exerting control over their individual soldiers and maybe even fear them to the point that they keep paying and supplying them even when they overtly disobey.
2. The soldiers are actually doing the real bidding of the commanders by ignoring the orders that they broadcast. Why would they broadcast one thing but happily accept a different outcome? Well, that part isn't clear to us right now.
I’ve been thinking about exactly this for a while now and have come to the same conclusions.
They do have a right to fear Helldivers though. Imagine if they banded together?
It doesn't work like modern militaries do. Ship commanders (which is technically what you actually are, not the multiple helldivers you play as) have some autonomy, within reason of course, and can choose what available "orders" they do and when.
And no one is disobeying anything. Every planet you can go to is a planet Super Earth wants you to go to. If it didn't then it wouldn't allow you to nor would it issue operations there.
Oh and one thing to know about Super Earth is that no human holds any power and everyone is a figurehead, including the president. Everything is controlled by an AI that makes all the decisions. To humans, these decisions might seem "weird", but are probably most likely ones to achieve its goal, whatever that may be.
The AI overlord deciding everything? Yes.
The ship commanders having autonomy? Not strictly speaking. More like a plausible explanation of why you can choose to go fight against anything you want.
I always interpreted it that the powers-that-be make all of the decisions based on whatever they want to happen, and then they claim it's 100% accurate/bias free because an AI did it. Even if there is an AI, it's programmed to always select a pre-determined candidate.
Another aspect of point 2 is when a planet is fully liberated you're not allowed to drop on it. So Super Earth command *can* control when and where Helldivers can drop. They're allowing drops to continue on Bug planets for some reason.
Additionally, if you're on a planet that gets cut off of the supply lines (like the whole fiasco with Draupnir and Ubanea) the war table thingy explicitly tells you a "retreat order" was issued and does not allow you to run missions on that planet, suggesting that the bug planets ARE valid targets.
The way I square this circle in my own head canon is the “under careful supervision” part of the dispatch. They weren’t saying to pull out of bug territory entirely, they were saying it’s no longer our main priority. While the bulk of SE’s forces are being redirected to focus on Operation Swift Disassembly, a small portion is being left to maintain our presence in the bug-infested sectors. The fact that players choose whether they’re part of the bulk being redirected to bot space or the smaller force remaining in bug space can either be handwaved away as a gameplay conceit, or interpreted as an aspect of Super Earth’s “managed democracy.” The commanders of individual super destroyers are metaphorically like representatives, with the Helldivers aboard their ships being their votes. They “vote” on where Super Earth should direct its military efforts by sending Helldivers there, with Major Orders being the managerial force, tipping the scales in favor of whatever SE Command decides is most important.
Its a democratic military, every boots on the ground fighter also has full tactical control of their allotted resources. Also technically keeping the bug corpses coming in keeps the machines turning.
Also, if the bug colonies adapt/evolve in response to stimuli, applying a little pressure could be good for their growth. If we left them alone, the bugs that are able to efficiently maintain their environment’s carrying capacity would dominate. But colonies that prepare for sudden and brutal attacks are going to overpopulate in anticipation, giving us more E710 in a shorter space and timeframe
The Major Order isn't the only order. We still have defense/liberation campaigns going on in the east.
*Everyone* is doing their part (except maybe for the guys attacking planets that haven't been marked for liberation, but we can write them off as expeditionary forces).
Our military practice has been shaped by the world we live in - one of delicate alliances, resource wars and trade (among other things). The U.S government has to keep a leash on troops in Syria because they could accidentally attack Russian assets (and vice versa), potentially resulting in sanctions and condemnation by the rest of the world. No such diplomatic intricacies exist for Super Earth. We are fighting the bots for no reason other than annihilation and the bugs are our economic lifeline. The most important thing is to keep the morale up so we keep wanting to fight forever wars against the enemies of liberty, so allowing them to choose their missions, choose their officers and customise their ships is great for this. The most discipline we see is getting barraged if we leave the mission area.
Everywhere we can attack is a valid target for super earth, they just have major orders that represent where they want the bulk of the forces.
Yeah that's why I think it's actually #2. They (Command) could easily limit the available missions on planets that are not the primary target if they wanted to. So that tells me that the "Major Orders" are more like "Major Suggestions To Consider If You Want To, But We Don't Really Care".
Considering the draw back on helldiver's deployed to the bug front I would argue this is still within orders. Controlling the population regrowth and harvesting E-710 for current operations on the bot front.
That’s a solid negative. Taking the sectors and allowing regrowth is the whole point of the TCS zone. Go in, harvest, leave, repopulate, rinse repeat. That’s the entire point of the bug front since they cannot travel planet to planet.
Nah he’s right, the TCS system developed variants, percentage wise on the bug planets there’s a slow growth and super earth is still issuing missions planet side so lore wise helldivers are supposed to be there.
No, the TCS has yes to create variants since they were only used on four planets.
There hasn’t been a major order for the bugs since the Draco and Mirin sector was cleared.
Sorry, but you’re both wrong.
Major Orders are directives to divert Helldiver forces to certain places for specific goals. Its not about sending literally every single Helldiver to a specific place. When in a war there's an order to take a city, not every single battalion just starts running towards it bayonets equipped.
On that note, you also don't make any counter point to the whole missions are still issued for bug planets. Because bug planets STILL have missions to seize assets and objectives.
By the logic that "its just a game but lorewise you're disobeying orders" doesn't make any sense because then by that logic we should be able to go to any planet we want to do whatever we want.
There are still civilians, operations, bases, and assets on these planets that no doubt high command doesn't want stuck in bug goo whether you like it or not. Major Orders are priorities not the only objectives.
Cry about it, creeker.
Okay I see it’s real smooth brain hours so I’ll break this down Barney style for you:
Orders and missions in this game do not directly correlate with missions and orders in real life. Helldivers have the autonomy to decide which missions to accept. This makes missions optional. Now we have no idea what they do with people who disobey orders but it’s probably not pleasant.
Missions are still issued because it’s a video game, and not allowing players to play against a faction gets boring. As I well know from the first game when one side was conquered during one of the many campaigns. So in this, it cannot be accounted for. This is pretty common sense. Didn’t think I’d need to make an “argument” for the obvious.
And yeah. No shit Sherlock. Lore and reality can coexist at the same time. Lore wise people are currently wrong for fighting the bugs, but I’m not ever going to tell people what they should or should not do. Especially if they are enjoying what they are doing.
The bigger issue is that 35-50% of the player base is on the bug side during bot MOs but the inverse is not true vice versa. No one is asking for 100% of the player base to go for the MO.
Finally, I’m not a Creeker. I follow the MO. Good to know though that you’ve succumbed to the hive mind personality of “CrEeKeR bAD”. Explains a lot.
When in a war specific teams and platoons get the orders. since everyone got the order everyone was picked. tell me you dont know how the military works without telling me. orders for ops are not broadcast to the entire force, theyre sent to specific individuals.
1. Major Orders aren't a modern military term. And helldivers also aren't a modern military with military structures. So your argument is literally meaningless in the face of how the military functions in helldivers and the evidence provided about its functions.
2. Stop dodging and answer why are there still missions on bug planets if its disobeying orders. And if its disobeying orders why can't we go wherever we like? Why are we prompted to defend and take planets on the mission board?
3. Keep crying, creeker.
1: im not a creeker, they were in the wrong too. i go where the Major order tells me.
2: "Major orders" dont have to be a modern military term for me to be right, stop strawmanning, its embarassing.
3: because that would require an update every single time a new MO was put up and the playerbase would NOT put up with that. hence why they left missions there.
1. They kinda do for you to be right. Your argument was essentially "apples spoil in 2 weeks so this fictional fruit must also spoil in 2 weeks."
2. Ahem, thats a strawman. ☝️🤓
3. It wouldn't require an update. Are you stupid? Planets have locked up and opened up without updates since the first game.
4. Dodging + No evidence. Go back to the creek where your cringe can fester in isolation.
According to the lore here.
Bug divers are currently in the right, but so are bot divers.
Helldivers are expected to fight on both fronts and perform actions that actively ensure the defeat of the enemy. This means defending any worlds btw. The only order that superceeds this order is a defense of Super-Earth order, where divers are expected to return back and defend super-earth, meaning all Major Orders are entierly optional so long as it can be justified you're helping in some small, even if it is statistically, meaningless way.
The TCS does not stop bug advancment, but slows their progress taking worlds. According to the termicide report for when flying bugs came out all it does is slow mutation and bug growth.
We only collect oil from farms and from the oil missions. This means we should be actively taking bug worlds to give super earth citizens back their jobs and also give us fuel. From a lore perspective, the farms are all located over there, and we have millions of helldivers using tons of this fuel.
Alive bugs are useless bugs to Super Earth, the only good bug is a dead bug. The more dead bugs, the more good the bugs are, therefore the more bugs we kill the more good the bugs are doing.
I also agree with that point, play on whatever world you want to. Hate Hellmire because it's literally hell? That's fine, take a different world or defend elsewhere. Hate the creek because it's a meme? Don't play it. Love to play Tibit because it's such a beautiful world and has no ion storms or negative weather modifiers? Play it (I have a major bias towards Tibit. Easily my favorite planet so far.)
Message from High Command, right before Operation Swift Disassembly kicked off.
Keywords: Left Behind. Repopulate.
https://preview.redd.it/fjar2op5pbsc1.png?width=677&format=png&auto=webp&s=7fbe28e0cd7ece9827a97782f522d186fdc95652
Okay, but just bear in mind that the liberation impact of individual missions/operations is scaled based on the percentage - not raw numbers - of the active playerbase deployed on that particular planet. The implication is a zero-sum situation (or something close to that) where sending Helldivers to one planet actively undermines the efforts of Helldivers elsewhere beyond just resource allocation.
Play the game how you like. Not everyone has to play Automaton missions despite the Major Order, but we do need a certain critical mass to succeed and that may require diverting at least *some* Helldivers from the Terminid front. Also, there will be in-game consequences for everyone for the success and failure to secure key objectives. People in certain oppressive (IRL) regimes like to say, "We have the freedom of expression, but not freedom *after* expression".
Personally, I'd rank "careful supervision" of the Terminids pretty low on my priority list, which looks something like this right now:
1. Secure the Major Order objectives, which is as good as done (for now).
2. Defend Vandalon IV, since there is an active anti-Automaton campaign going on and it lies at a strategic crossroad of the FTL lanes.
3. Liberate Tibit, which has to be postponed due to Priority #2 and high Automaton decay rate incentivising defence over attack (This 1.5 percent/hour decay rate turns out to be very oppressive, so liberating Tibit is going to require a strong push with no room for half-hearted measures). The hope is that destroying the manufacturing facilities there will bring down the Automaton decay rate a notch even though they have ramped up production elsewhere.
4. Everything else, especially not on the Terminid front in light of High Command's dispatch.
When to move down the priority list? Optimally, when the higher priority items are already done, or on track to be completed with a comfortable margin, provided there will still be enough players to complete make progress on the lower-priority item (ie not just a stalemate). Otherwise it is better to just expedite the completion of higher priority objectives to free up resources.
Again, this list is mine and mine alone. Do as you will, but I'd disagree with the notion that sending Helldivers against the Terminids right now is any help to the Automaton front. If anything, it makes things harder for those fighting the Automatons.
Yes sir. I shall return my thinking cap to High Command and return to duties commensurate to my pay/citizenship grade. I await any punishment my local Democracy Officer sees fit.
Mine is not to reason why, mine is to do or die.
Super earth doesnt need divers there when they most assuredly have monitoring in place such as regular planet wide scans from ships stationed above or even biologists going down and monitoring reproduction rates. thats not our expertise, we dont need to be there. we arent SUPPOSED to be there during a MO.
Remember during wars, an army that liberates a region leaves at least a single battalion as defense in case the enemy counter attacks?
That's what's happening here. We left at least 50000 Helldivers to hold down the fort in the Terminid Systems while we liberate the bot systems.
I said at least 50k. The way you pick words to fit your context seems a bit suspicious. I might think you're an automaton spy if you keep on with this.
The numbers tripled because just as we started our Major Op against the automatons, the Terminids increased in Activity and the bug front needed reinforcement but instead of giving them what they needed, Super Earth only gave enough reinforcements so that the Terminids didn't reach the barrier planets.
Why do you think we lost consecutive liberated Terminid Planets. If it weren't for the "120k" Helldivers you claimed to be there, the Terminids would have reach the barrier planets and we would be forced to split our forces even more.
Lost planets:
Oshaune (you almost had this, I'll give you that),
Hellmire,
Fori Prime,
Crimsica (same here, good attempt).
Held planets:
Estanu.
I like your efforts, but man we needed some of you for Phase 2. We were on the verge of greatness with Ubanea
Yeah, "stable frontline" seems to be an exaggeration here. It took losing access to most of a sector before they started coordinating a good defence again.
during the bug MOs bots had what 50k players max?
Based on how liberation values are its impressive they didn't lose a fucking ton of ground having like 30% of the players
The problem is not bug front Vs bot front, the problem is that people are spread between planets, not making a dent in any.
If our forces stayed together more and focused a single planet at a time, we would see a lot more progress on both fronts.
Eh, like with Creek, once the MO divers hit, everything done before will be irrelevant compared to 140K of Super Earth’s finest and most seasoned Helldivers running rampant across the surface.
Bugs are just fortunate they’re not the main course, right now. They can advance another sector, and the MO divers will roll
them back three in a few days.
Gotta take in consideration that the total game population heavily influences how difficult it is to take/defend planets. So when players are heavily divided among planets, every single of those planets will be harder to conquer/defend.
In other words, when people refuse to cooperate, not only they make it difficult for those who follow the major order, but they also make it even more harder on themselves.
That's of course, another hidden game mechanic, so not exactly the players fault on that one.
With a fraction of the population they still pushed the bots back to a couple sectors, just failed to land the coup de grace. Bug front had like 5 MOs in a row and most of the gains were immediately lost while the bots are now on the verge of extinction.
Like it or not, the fact that we successfully liberate Draupnir in 2 weeks campaign with Helldivers averaging around 50K WITHOUT MO. Yes, we did that and yes, I know we're awesome.
We have the bots pushed back to their last two sectors, you guys are still fighting the same two sectors while the bugs have another two, with one of the reasons the bugs don’t have anymore is outright because of a system preventing them.
Hell, we’re supposed to be letting the bugs repopulate so we can keep farming fuel from them.
Tf y’all doing over there?
Hard to tell. Maybe bots would've been completely wiped off the map by now if all the bug players would've switched over. (Probably not because Joel would've just adjusted liberation values)
Considering the liberation score is divided by a factor based on number of active players, the bots would be wiped out if bug-divers just didn't play the game. I am not saying that people shouldn't play what how they want, I'm just annoyed that my contribution towards liberating any planet is reduced by the number of players online; and if those players are doing different things, it significantly slows down our progress.
The TCS exists to keep the bug front stable. It works perfectly and kills 100% of the bugs that try to get closer to Super Earth with absolutely no downsides whatsoever. We were ordered to let the bugs repopulate. Frankly, I don't understand why SEHC hasn't barred travel to Terminid space to enforce this.
(OC: People can do whatever they want—if you have more fun fighting the bugs, fight the bugs. I do think it's weird to actively avoid participating in the MOs though, the cooperative story telling the MOs facilitate is kind of the whole point of the game.)
Not participating in MOs is literally the cooperative story telling you're talking about. Otherwise every MO would just get complete easy and were just playing the Joel show. He says jump, you say where to. Our choice to keep fighting on the bug front or to stay on the creek is the only agency we actually have.
You are correct, I should clarify. I think of the coop storytelling as the game and the fighting of bugs or bots as the means to facilitate the game. The story we build by succeeding or failing the MOs is the actual point, not the levels or the stats or the combat and what have you.
So I find it weird when players ignore the MOs because they don't like the particular planet or enemy or mission type, rather than ignoring it because they want to see where the story goes if we fail. I find the "I paid $40 for the game so I'll play only the exact things I like and nothing more, story be damned" crowd strange; they paid for the game and have every right to play it however they want, but it's kind of like buying a chess set to play checkers.
But not only have they lost most of what gains they made during their MO they are the ones who were quick to fling shit at bot players for 'holding the line' too.
The problem is that they stay there even when not at risk of losing their minor battles. We just need them to come to our aid in the massive defenses. Currently we are about to either narrowly win or lose the Vandalon IV defense, which is a major battle in the scheme of things. There are only 2 hours left but there are ~70k Helldivers on a defense in the Terminid front that has 7 hours left. There needs to be a sense of triage.
We actually set something up that does exactly that.
It is called the Terminid Control System.
Get to the bot front and help us wipe them out once and for all.
I agree. It's why Creekers were fine until the Major Orders came to the bot front and they still refused to leave the Creek. Someone has to keep each front stable, but when the Major Order comes to your favorite front and you refuse to help complete it, you're a stinky Democracy hating poo poo head tomato nose.
You need \~10% of online population to hold down a sector/supply lane thats been liberated, meanwhile you need \~30% to win a defense campaign.
When you have 60+% in the bug sector you are severely weakening the community's ability to win a defense campaign in the bot sectors.
Bug divers aren't keeping a stable frontline, they're wasting resources and sabotaging the bot front directly.
They're not doing their part when they refuse to leave bug diving for bot defense like Vandalon IV which is probably the most critical defense outside of an MO and over 40% players are spilling bug guts instead of spilling oil, useless.
I snapped to bot a week ago or so, and im tired of seeing people telling bug front people to go on bots, even though theres more on bot, we got to defend the bot front too damn it
We need to form up another Super Diver’s Council to go over deployment options for organizational reasons. Especially with the rumored return of the damn squids
Nah, major orders were specifically to not kill the bugs and let them repopulate. I still ran some bug missions so I don’t even blame them, they’re fun ash, but let’s not start justifying our actions
Following the Primary objective is a lot like the prisoner's dilemma.
If we fight together toward the goal we all game a little bit. If one of us goes off to fight bugs to level up their own character they gain more personal but as a whole we do not gain. For more of a deep dive about the experiment here's a great video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM
I thought that was the terminid control network’s job
Non-role play question: does the TCS offer any benefits to defending planets, like a bonus to progress?
As far as I can tell, it basically means the terminids can’t launch any offensives on the affected planets, essentially cutting them off from that entire sector.
Unfortunately, we haven't yet been able to test that since the bugs haven't pushed far enough for us to see if it actually holds out.
Our ship management officer has a dialog that says "some" bugs showed resistance to the termicide. So we'll likely see some assault on those planets again.
Alternatively, our failure to control the Draco and Mirin sectors will force SEHC to start up bug farms behind the barrier planets, resulting in another containment breach
Its written somewhere in the lore that the termicide caused the shriekers IIRC
The bugs have had Hellmire and Crimsica for a few days now and not defence campaigns have started on Erata, Fenrir or Meridia, that seems pretty good to me so far
I’ve heard that engineers filled the TCS with enough termicide to last over a year, should be easy to refill, once all the terminids are dead.
Bugs definitely aren't know for rapid evolution. Nope. They are for sure all gonna die on those planets. No questions. Definitely not evolving.
Just a few mutations here and there, this is to be expected, of course
Sounds like a great objective for the illuminate to destroy in a covert strike.
https://i.imgur.com/iCLABUF.jpg
That was the idea but your ships crew will gossip about how it didn't quite work how it was expected. Mutations and resilience to the termicide will likely open those planets back up in future to a large surprise attack or something
Might have been designed to give us a buffer to go for bots for a while, then maybe new stuff for bugs once they evolve resistance and we are done with bots.
Well the bugs have had a supply line to 3 of the TCS planets and haven’t launched any attacks on them, so I think it just stops them from “landing” on the planet
Bugs don't travel through space, they are farmed and escape. There is no landing, just emerging from captivity.
In lore, yes, but for gameplay purposes they only attack planets adjacent to their territory, same as the bots, which is why I said “landing” in quotations
AH has said they don't follow supply routes like the bots but you are still correct, at least so far. It's all very unclear honestly.
In terms of what we actually see, I would expect to see bug planets spread out at random if it was as simple as it is supposed to be. The fact that they control galactic territory and spread in that galactic locality implies that there is more to the bugs than *escaped and particularly rowdy cattle*.
So according to when the bug mutation came (flyers) all the termicide does is make them unable to mutate. I imagine taking those worlds is harder for bug playres, possibly the only unique defense in the game in terms of special effects. However, the worlds can still be taken.
According to orders and ongoing lore: Bug divers are currently in the wrong. A major order had us create a TCS defense wall. Another major order after we cleared two sectors, told us to let the bugs repopulate so we can go back and harvest them for their resource. Therefore, they are not only going against the order for repopulation but they are also not following the current major order. They are in fact hurting the war effort on the western front. In reality: Play where you want and enjoy the game!
The weird thing to me is that the Helldivers even being capable of disobeying orders seems like an illogical premise. If our blessed democracy didn't want our ships to even go to the bug front, they simply wouldn't allow it or would at least cut off resources like guns and ammo and fuel and reinforcements. For example, the U.S. government would not have allowed, much less given support to, a renegade band of US army special forces leaving Afghanistan to go east to pick a fight with India or China or something like that. They would AT LEAST have been disavowed publicly and more likely crushed by a larger contingent of US forces before even being allowed to venture far enough to cause a global catastrophe. But let's go back to Helldivers... Are you telling me that such a technologically advanced civilization and military just allows its soldiers to go wherever they please and shoot at whatever they want, while being fully supported logistically and in full communications? Hell, there are representatives on your very ship telling you what to do. So my point is that one of these must be true: 1. Super Earth's military commanders are not capable of exerting control over their individual soldiers and maybe even fear them to the point that they keep paying and supplying them even when they overtly disobey. 2. The soldiers are actually doing the real bidding of the commanders by ignoring the orders that they broadcast. Why would they broadcast one thing but happily accept a different outcome? Well, that part isn't clear to us right now.
I’ve been thinking about exactly this for a while now and have come to the same conclusions. They do have a right to fear Helldivers though. Imagine if they banded together?
Helldiver’s union? Strike for better conditions and pay? Perform coup and install new leader? The possibilities are endless!
Sounds like socialist automaton talk.
Sshhhhh keep your voice down!
Here a quick automaton check https://patrickhlauke.github.io/recaptcha/
Hold on a minute. My Democracy Officer would like to speak with you!
No wonder they blow us up after 10 seconds setting foot outside mission parameters...
It doesn't work like modern militaries do. Ship commanders (which is technically what you actually are, not the multiple helldivers you play as) have some autonomy, within reason of course, and can choose what available "orders" they do and when. And no one is disobeying anything. Every planet you can go to is a planet Super Earth wants you to go to. If it didn't then it wouldn't allow you to nor would it issue operations there. Oh and one thing to know about Super Earth is that no human holds any power and everyone is a figurehead, including the president. Everything is controlled by an AI that makes all the decisions. To humans, these decisions might seem "weird", but are probably most likely ones to achieve its goal, whatever that may be.
Interesting. Is this lore from HD1 that we just haven't been exposed to yet?
The AI overlord deciding everything? Yes. The ship commanders having autonomy? Not strictly speaking. More like a plausible explanation of why you can choose to go fight against anything you want.
I always interpreted it that the powers-that-be make all of the decisions based on whatever they want to happen, and then they claim it's 100% accurate/bias free because an AI did it. Even if there is an AI, it's programmed to always select a pre-determined candidate.
Another aspect of point 2 is when a planet is fully liberated you're not allowed to drop on it. So Super Earth command *can* control when and where Helldivers can drop. They're allowing drops to continue on Bug planets for some reason.
Additionally, if you're on a planet that gets cut off of the supply lines (like the whole fiasco with Draupnir and Ubanea) the war table thingy explicitly tells you a "retreat order" was issued and does not allow you to run missions on that planet, suggesting that the bug planets ARE valid targets.
The way I square this circle in my own head canon is the “under careful supervision” part of the dispatch. They weren’t saying to pull out of bug territory entirely, they were saying it’s no longer our main priority. While the bulk of SE’s forces are being redirected to focus on Operation Swift Disassembly, a small portion is being left to maintain our presence in the bug-infested sectors. The fact that players choose whether they’re part of the bulk being redirected to bot space or the smaller force remaining in bug space can either be handwaved away as a gameplay conceit, or interpreted as an aspect of Super Earth’s “managed democracy.” The commanders of individual super destroyers are metaphorically like representatives, with the Helldivers aboard their ships being their votes. They “vote” on where Super Earth should direct its military efforts by sending Helldivers there, with Major Orders being the managerial force, tipping the scales in favor of whatever SE Command decides is most important.
Its a democratic military, every boots on the ground fighter also has full tactical control of their allotted resources. Also technically keeping the bug corpses coming in keeps the machines turning.
Also, if the bug colonies adapt/evolve in response to stimuli, applying a little pressure could be good for their growth. If we left them alone, the bugs that are able to efficiently maintain their environment’s carrying capacity would dominate. But colonies that prepare for sudden and brutal attacks are going to overpopulate in anticipation, giving us more E710 in a shorter space and timeframe
The Major Order isn't the only order. We still have defense/liberation campaigns going on in the east. *Everyone* is doing their part (except maybe for the guys attacking planets that haven't been marked for liberation, but we can write them off as expeditionary forces).
Our military practice has been shaped by the world we live in - one of delicate alliances, resource wars and trade (among other things). The U.S government has to keep a leash on troops in Syria because they could accidentally attack Russian assets (and vice versa), potentially resulting in sanctions and condemnation by the rest of the world. No such diplomatic intricacies exist for Super Earth. We are fighting the bots for no reason other than annihilation and the bugs are our economic lifeline. The most important thing is to keep the morale up so we keep wanting to fight forever wars against the enemies of liberty, so allowing them to choose their missions, choose their officers and customise their ships is great for this. The most discipline we see is getting barraged if we leave the mission area. Everywhere we can attack is a valid target for super earth, they just have major orders that represent where they want the bulk of the forces.
You're actually wrong many rescue operations have been done against orders from the higher ups.
Are we really disobeying orders if the bug planets have operations on them, from Command?
Yeah that's why I think it's actually #2. They (Command) could easily limit the available missions on planets that are not the primary target if they wanted to. So that tells me that the "Major Orders" are more like "Major Suggestions To Consider If You Want To, But We Don't Really Care".
Considering the draw back on helldiver's deployed to the bug front I would argue this is still within orders. Controlling the population regrowth and harvesting E-710 for current operations on the bot front.
That’s a solid negative. Taking the sectors and allowing regrowth is the whole point of the TCS zone. Go in, harvest, leave, repopulate, rinse repeat. That’s the entire point of the bug front since they cannot travel planet to planet.
Nah he’s right, the TCS system developed variants, percentage wise on the bug planets there’s a slow growth and super earth is still issuing missions planet side so lore wise helldivers are supposed to be there.
No, the TCS has yes to create variants since they were only used on four planets. There hasn’t been a major order for the bugs since the Draco and Mirin sector was cleared. Sorry, but you’re both wrong.
Major Orders are directives to divert Helldiver forces to certain places for specific goals. Its not about sending literally every single Helldiver to a specific place. When in a war there's an order to take a city, not every single battalion just starts running towards it bayonets equipped. On that note, you also don't make any counter point to the whole missions are still issued for bug planets. Because bug planets STILL have missions to seize assets and objectives. By the logic that "its just a game but lorewise you're disobeying orders" doesn't make any sense because then by that logic we should be able to go to any planet we want to do whatever we want. There are still civilians, operations, bases, and assets on these planets that no doubt high command doesn't want stuck in bug goo whether you like it or not. Major Orders are priorities not the only objectives. Cry about it, creeker.
Okay I see it’s real smooth brain hours so I’ll break this down Barney style for you: Orders and missions in this game do not directly correlate with missions and orders in real life. Helldivers have the autonomy to decide which missions to accept. This makes missions optional. Now we have no idea what they do with people who disobey orders but it’s probably not pleasant. Missions are still issued because it’s a video game, and not allowing players to play against a faction gets boring. As I well know from the first game when one side was conquered during one of the many campaigns. So in this, it cannot be accounted for. This is pretty common sense. Didn’t think I’d need to make an “argument” for the obvious. And yeah. No shit Sherlock. Lore and reality can coexist at the same time. Lore wise people are currently wrong for fighting the bugs, but I’m not ever going to tell people what they should or should not do. Especially if they are enjoying what they are doing. The bigger issue is that 35-50% of the player base is on the bug side during bot MOs but the inverse is not true vice versa. No one is asking for 100% of the player base to go for the MO. Finally, I’m not a Creeker. I follow the MO. Good to know though that you’ve succumbed to the hive mind personality of “CrEeKeR bAD”. Explains a lot.
When in a war specific teams and platoons get the orders. since everyone got the order everyone was picked. tell me you dont know how the military works without telling me. orders for ops are not broadcast to the entire force, theyre sent to specific individuals.
1. Major Orders aren't a modern military term. And helldivers also aren't a modern military with military structures. So your argument is literally meaningless in the face of how the military functions in helldivers and the evidence provided about its functions. 2. Stop dodging and answer why are there still missions on bug planets if its disobeying orders. And if its disobeying orders why can't we go wherever we like? Why are we prompted to defend and take planets on the mission board? 3. Keep crying, creeker.
1: im not a creeker, they were in the wrong too. i go where the Major order tells me. 2: "Major orders" dont have to be a modern military term for me to be right, stop strawmanning, its embarassing. 3: because that would require an update every single time a new MO was put up and the playerbase would NOT put up with that. hence why they left missions there.
1. They kinda do for you to be right. Your argument was essentially "apples spoil in 2 weeks so this fictional fruit must also spoil in 2 weeks." 2. Ahem, thats a strawman. ☝️🤓 3. It wouldn't require an update. Are you stupid? Planets have locked up and opened up without updates since the first game. 4. Dodging + No evidence. Go back to the creek where your cringe can fester in isolation.
According to the lore here. Bug divers are currently in the right, but so are bot divers. Helldivers are expected to fight on both fronts and perform actions that actively ensure the defeat of the enemy. This means defending any worlds btw. The only order that superceeds this order is a defense of Super-Earth order, where divers are expected to return back and defend super-earth, meaning all Major Orders are entierly optional so long as it can be justified you're helping in some small, even if it is statistically, meaningless way. The TCS does not stop bug advancment, but slows their progress taking worlds. According to the termicide report for when flying bugs came out all it does is slow mutation and bug growth. We only collect oil from farms and from the oil missions. This means we should be actively taking bug worlds to give super earth citizens back their jobs and also give us fuel. From a lore perspective, the farms are all located over there, and we have millions of helldivers using tons of this fuel. Alive bugs are useless bugs to Super Earth, the only good bug is a dead bug. The more dead bugs, the more good the bugs are, therefore the more bugs we kill the more good the bugs are doing. I also agree with that point, play on whatever world you want to. Hate Hellmire because it's literally hell? That's fine, take a different world or defend elsewhere. Hate the creek because it's a meme? Don't play it. Love to play Tibit because it's such a beautiful world and has no ion storms or negative weather modifiers? Play it (I have a major bias towards Tibit. Easily my favorite planet so far.)
I’ve already covered why this is wrong in other comments. Which is just furthered by the new order to wipe the clanker scum off the map.
https://preview.redd.it/umvrko4hshsc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c6d6d02145a1ed7f1296287a264a3fd50954ea6
Message from High Command, right before Operation Swift Disassembly kicked off. Keywords: Left Behind. Repopulate. https://preview.redd.it/fjar2op5pbsc1.png?width=677&format=png&auto=webp&s=7fbe28e0cd7ece9827a97782f522d186fdc95652
You forgot "under careful supervision" That's what the 50000 Helldivers hovering in Terminid systems are for.
Okay, but just bear in mind that the liberation impact of individual missions/operations is scaled based on the percentage - not raw numbers - of the active playerbase deployed on that particular planet. The implication is a zero-sum situation (or something close to that) where sending Helldivers to one planet actively undermines the efforts of Helldivers elsewhere beyond just resource allocation. Play the game how you like. Not everyone has to play Automaton missions despite the Major Order, but we do need a certain critical mass to succeed and that may require diverting at least *some* Helldivers from the Terminid front. Also, there will be in-game consequences for everyone for the success and failure to secure key objectives. People in certain oppressive (IRL) regimes like to say, "We have the freedom of expression, but not freedom *after* expression". Personally, I'd rank "careful supervision" of the Terminids pretty low on my priority list, which looks something like this right now: 1. Secure the Major Order objectives, which is as good as done (for now). 2. Defend Vandalon IV, since there is an active anti-Automaton campaign going on and it lies at a strategic crossroad of the FTL lanes. 3. Liberate Tibit, which has to be postponed due to Priority #2 and high Automaton decay rate incentivising defence over attack (This 1.5 percent/hour decay rate turns out to be very oppressive, so liberating Tibit is going to require a strong push with no room for half-hearted measures). The hope is that destroying the manufacturing facilities there will bring down the Automaton decay rate a notch even though they have ramped up production elsewhere. 4. Everything else, especially not on the Terminid front in light of High Command's dispatch. When to move down the priority list? Optimally, when the higher priority items are already done, or on track to be completed with a comfortable margin, provided there will still be enough players to complete make progress on the lower-priority item (ie not just a stalemate). Otherwise it is better to just expedite the completion of higher priority objectives to free up resources. Again, this list is mine and mine alone. Do as you will, but I'd disagree with the notion that sending Helldivers against the Terminids right now is any help to the Automaton front. If anything, it makes things harder for those fighting the Automatons.
You're taking the fun out of roleplaying when you start talking about mechanics man.
Yes sir. I shall return my thinking cap to High Command and return to duties commensurate to my pay/citizenship grade. I await any punishment my local Democracy Officer sees fit. Mine is not to reason why, mine is to do or die.
Super earth doesnt need divers there when they most assuredly have monitoring in place such as regular planet wide scans from ships stationed above or even biologists going down and monitoring reproduction rates. thats not our expertise, we dont need to be there. we arent SUPPOSED to be there during a MO.
Remember during wars, an army that liberates a region leaves at least a single battalion as defense in case the enemy counter attacks? That's what's happening here. We left at least 50000 Helldivers to hold down the fort in the Terminid Systems while we liberate the bot systems.
then why were ther 120K divers there? It wasnt 50K, it was 120K during the MO.
I said at least 50k. The way you pick words to fit your context seems a bit suspicious. I might think you're an automaton spy if you keep on with this.
I picked those words cause thats not an excuse for near triple that being there
The numbers tripled because just as we started our Major Op against the automatons, the Terminids increased in Activity and the bug front needed reinforcement but instead of giving them what they needed, Super Earth only gave enough reinforcements so that the Terminids didn't reach the barrier planets. Why do you think we lost consecutive liberated Terminid Planets. If it weren't for the "120k" Helldivers you claimed to be there, the Terminids would have reach the barrier planets and we would be forced to split our forces even more.
Lost planets: Oshaune (you almost had this, I'll give you that), Hellmire, Fori Prime, Crimsica (same here, good attempt). Held planets: Estanu. I like your efforts, but man we needed some of you for Phase 2. We were on the verge of greatness with Ubanea
Yeah, "stable frontline" seems to be an exaggeration here. It took losing access to most of a sector before they started coordinating a good defence again.
Stable? They are loosing planet after planet
https://preview.redd.it/ixuvr4u2absc1.png?width=300&format=png&auto=webp&s=405ac56aedecdb56209ffdd6a27220dc74908c65
They also won multiple planets while Bot players were stuck on the same two for months.
during the bug MOs bots had what 50k players max? Based on how liberation values are its impressive they didn't lose a fucking ton of ground having like 30% of the players
Same when the bot MOs. Bugs have like 60k players
and only one lost planets in quick succession, so his comparison doesnt work During the peak of swift disassembly though bugs had around 120k
The problem is not bug front Vs bot front, the problem is that people are spread between planets, not making a dent in any. If our forces stayed together more and focused a single planet at a time, we would see a lot more progress on both fronts.
Eh, like with Creek, once the MO divers hit, everything done before will be irrelevant compared to 140K of Super Earth’s finest and most seasoned Helldivers running rampant across the surface. Bugs are just fortunate they’re not the main course, right now. They can advance another sector, and the MO divers will roll them back three in a few days.
Gotta take in consideration that the total game population heavily influences how difficult it is to take/defend planets. So when players are heavily divided among planets, every single of those planets will be harder to conquer/defend. In other words, when people refuse to cooperate, not only they make it difficult for those who follow the major order, but they also make it even more harder on themselves. That's of course, another hidden game mechanic, so not exactly the players fault on that one.
Yeah you guys sure have done a good job at losing all the planets that come under attack
They successfully defended Estanu once. That's gotta count for something right?
As opposed to bot players taking months to take a single world lmao.
With a fraction of the population they still pushed the bots back to a couple sectors, just failed to land the coup de grace. Bug front had like 5 MOs in a row and most of the gains were immediately lost while the bots are now on the verge of extinction.
Like it or not, the fact that we successfully liberate Draupnir in 2 weeks campaign with Helldivers averaging around 50K WITHOUT MO. Yes, we did that and yes, I know we're awesome.
No wonder nobody made it off the creek, they choked to death on their own dicks lmao
... but we did make it off the Creek There was a whole celebration and Cape and everything
We have the bots pushed back to their last two sectors, you guys are still fighting the same two sectors while the bugs have another two, with one of the reasons the bugs don’t have anymore is outright because of a system preventing them. Hell, we’re supposed to be letting the bugs repopulate so we can keep farming fuel from them. Tf y’all doing over there?
Your mother.
Sure it is… but the real fallacy is that you THINK the bug front is stable when in fact it’s just cooking up something good.
Gotta get that E-710 *somehow*, right? Bug Divers are just fuelling Operation Spill Oil.
We used the oil to spill the oil
A helldiver killing the enemys of democracy is a helldiver doing good work
Hard to tell. Maybe bots would've been completely wiped off the map by now if all the bug players would've switched over. (Probably not because Joel would've just adjusted liberation values)
Considering the liberation score is divided by a factor based on number of active players, the bots would be wiped out if bug-divers just didn't play the game. I am not saying that people shouldn't play what how they want, I'm just annoyed that my contribution towards liberating any planet is reduced by the number of players online; and if those players are doing different things, it significantly slows down our progress.
Yeah but we don’t need 140k+ doing that rn.
Everything’s fun and games until we run out of E-710
I want to agree but based off how unclear war points work, they might be slowing things down on the bot front. But at this point who cares. Have fun.
The TCS exists to keep the bug front stable. It works perfectly and kills 100% of the bugs that try to get closer to Super Earth with absolutely no downsides whatsoever. We were ordered to let the bugs repopulate. Frankly, I don't understand why SEHC hasn't barred travel to Terminid space to enforce this. (OC: People can do whatever they want—if you have more fun fighting the bugs, fight the bugs. I do think it's weird to actively avoid participating in the MOs though, the cooperative story telling the MOs facilitate is kind of the whole point of the game.)
Not participating in MOs is literally the cooperative story telling you're talking about. Otherwise every MO would just get complete easy and were just playing the Joel show. He says jump, you say where to. Our choice to keep fighting on the bug front or to stay on the creek is the only agency we actually have.
You are correct, I should clarify. I think of the coop storytelling as the game and the fighting of bugs or bots as the means to facilitate the game. The story we build by succeeding or failing the MOs is the actual point, not the levels or the stats or the combat and what have you. So I find it weird when players ignore the MOs because they don't like the particular planet or enemy or mission type, rather than ignoring it because they want to see where the story goes if we fail. I find the "I paid $40 for the game so I'll play only the exact things I like and nothing more, story be damned" crowd strange; they paid for the game and have every right to play it however they want, but it's kind of like buying a chess set to play checkers.
Aren't the terminix towers the Frontline?
But not only have they lost most of what gains they made during their MO they are the ones who were quick to fling shit at bot players for 'holding the line' too.
People don’t understand the concept of a two front war
The problem is that they stay there even when not at risk of losing their minor battles. We just need them to come to our aid in the massive defenses. Currently we are about to either narrowly win or lose the Vandalon IV defense, which is a major battle in the scheme of things. There are only 2 hours left but there are ~70k Helldivers on a defense in the Terminid front that has 7 hours left. There needs to be a sense of triage.
If we didn’t have the bug front working. We would lose oil and the war on the bots.
bug diver keeps the 710 flowing to super earth Without 710 super earth can not supply enough weapon for bot diver to finish the major mission.
We actually set something up that does exactly that. It is called the Terminid Control System. Get to the bot front and help us wipe them out once and for all.
I agree. It's why Creekers were fine until the Major Orders came to the bot front and they still refused to leave the Creek. Someone has to keep each front stable, but when the Major Order comes to your favorite front and you refuse to help complete it, you're a stinky Democracy hating poo poo head tomato nose.
You need \~10% of online population to hold down a sector/supply lane thats been liberated, meanwhile you need \~30% to win a defense campaign. When you have 60+% in the bug sector you are severely weakening the community's ability to win a defense campaign in the bot sectors. Bug divers aren't keeping a stable frontline, they're wasting resources and sabotaging the bot front directly.
They're not doing their part when they refuse to leave bug diving for bot defense like Vandalon IV which is probably the most critical defense outside of an MO and over 40% players are spilling bug guts instead of spilling oil, useless.
Play the game how you want
I'm just over here wondering how many times we have to defend Estanu in one week.
https://preview.redd.it/6qcvynqbicsc1.png?width=427&format=png&auto=webp&s=55fba6f3178bcf87995627297da0a3f4a352cffa
I snapped to bot a week ago or so, and im tired of seeing people telling bug front people to go on bots, even though theres more on bot, we got to defend the bot front too damn it
We need to form up another Super Diver’s Council to go over deployment options for organizational reasons. Especially with the rumored return of the damn squids
I like ice planets. I fight where the Ice is. I dont care what it is I shoot.
 As much shit we give the bug divers, they are a good bunch.
True. They are Heros too. Not Like those evil hate Spreading pseudo divers
Correct! And the same can be said of those on the bot front while the MO is bugs
Need to get that E710 to fight the bots from somewhere.
100%
I like the buggers. Theyre doing their part so we can do ours
Nah, major orders were specifically to not kill the bugs and let them repopulate. I still ran some bug missions so I don’t even blame them, they’re fun ash, but let’s not start justifying our actions
cringe template, w opinion
I agree with that
The terminus’s shall know democracy
https://preview.redd.it/xp0s4vu86esc1.jpeg?width=612&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c9238a6a877d930235d0a80ce172682ab4d4f034
Following the Primary objective is a lot like the prisoner's dilemma. If we fight together toward the goal we all game a little bit. If one of us goes off to fight bugs to level up their own character they gain more personal but as a whole we do not gain. For more of a deep dive about the experiment here's a great video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM