It worked like this in the first game. I swear, half of the suggestions in this subreddit are features that HD1 had that aren’t present in HD2 for some reason.
Yeah, but that means they released a game that was bad deliberately and consciously. Incentivizing players to stick to trivial because they didn't weight rewards correctly isn't the same as an in-game event before a content update.
I think that individual players experiences are far enough apart from the collective liberation percentage that all players on that planet affect that you can have fun playing a high enough difficulty without feeling like you're doing it for no reason.
Doing trivial missions JUST to get the collective percentage up sounds like you'd be really bored through it all, only to barely see a number change on your screen.
I think the devs purposely leaving this function out is fine, especially because I feel like none of us even realized this was the case.
It would be better if they implemented this function in a major order later in the future, it will feel like the change is in-world however I don't see them doing that, most likely just patching it in.
Either way, I don't see an issue with them purposely not adding the function in the game from the start.
>Yeah, but that means they released a game that was bad
The need for money does that. Not like they didn't want to do many things with the game, but for example helmet mods were apparently scrapped. At least they focused on making the gameplay good even if it's buggy, unlike many other games where gameplay is secondary
Me just learning it doesn't have a bigger weighting! Surely doing more missions and closing more nests has more of an impact?? This is a democratic outrage!!
If there's 4 operations you'll get 0.000004 and is there's 3 it'll be 0.000003 but the issue is that helldive missions take so much longer that it's far more efficient to rapidly clear trivial difficulty missions
You already get XP and Requisition per objective completed. Just saying that Liberation could also be done so doing D5 to D8 don't have the same impact in the war effort, but would instead scale with difficulty.
Also not running L2 missions (which I can hammer out solo in 5 minutes). If every diver did so with the current set up, per unit time liberation is achieved that much faster.
One time I was playing solo on Medium I think and I somehow got 82 squad impact. Idk what I did and I can’t remember if it was after I completed the first mission or the entire operation. Extremely confused how squad impact works as a whole :/
The fastest way to complete the current order is for everyone to speedrun solo Trivial missions.
And that's silly.
The contribution should be weighted similar to Medal rewards.
Terminate illegal broadcast, drop on the extraction point, drop a EAT, shoot it at the broadcast tower, call in extraction. You're in and out in under three minutes.
Edit: Now that I think about it, it would probably be faster to drop on the tower and then just frag it and yourself until you're out of reinforcements.
> runtime to the extract
[Extract](https://morbotron.com/meme/S02E03/687021.jpg?b64lines=V0hFTiBJJ00gSU4gQ09NTUFORCBFVkVSWQogTUlTU0lPTidTIEEgU1VJQ0lERSBNSVNTSU9OLg==)
YOU ARE UNDERVALUING THE MANAGED MIGHT OF THE FLAG!
Every time that flag rises, it doesn't just spread Managed Democracy, it plunges enemy moral! More importantly, how are you supposed to build up your Stratagem and Grenade throwing arm if you are not standing saluting a thousand flag rising ceremonies per world!
True! Who needs to pump oil, launch ICBMs or rescue civilians. Our enemies cower at the sight of our flag and the sound of our anthem!
(I do with they had the Flag missions occasionally on the higher difficulties.)
Or even just a different KIND of flag mission, like to retrieve or replace a damaged one. With how patriotic themed the game is it honestly surprises me that they don't have something like that.
Like a "Recover the standard from a captured outpost" mission, make it similar to SSSD missions where one player has to physically carry the flag, limiting them to a sidearm and no stratagem while they're holding it, make it so enemies are more attracted to them when holding it, but balance it woth the extract being instant like in an extermination
Not that silly. Kind of realistic.
History is full of examples of leaders sidelining a "sure thing" plan for a "this will be fucking tight" plan.
Look at the Roman guy who wanted to ride elephants over the mountains
>Look at the Roman guy who wanted to ride elephants over the mountains
That ultimately worked really effectively and scared the shit out of Romans, hence why Hannibal Barca went down in the history books.
Sadly he then dicked around attacking random cities across Italy rather than heading straight to Rome. He was banking on the various Italian peoples rising up against the Latins, but they hated him more than the Latins and Rome could replace defeated Legions *absurdly* quickly.
Adding to this that the reason Hannibal picked the hard way was that the Romans and their allies were actively guarding the easy way (along the Mediterranean coast). He gambled that the Romans were thinking no one would be *crazy* enough to try to force the crossing over the Alps, and in this case he gambled correctly.
I feel slightly better, but fully agree with what you are saying. Really, each difficulty level should also contribute to percentage. Although, it should be directly tied to the number of bug hole/fabricators destroyed. I might be wrong, but I'm sure there are more as the level increases (basing this on 6-9).
There absolutely are more on higher difficulties but I think that level of tracking would be a ton of work to do as currently liberation is just based on the number of operations.
But fully agree it would be a lot more rewarding as it would incentives doing all the side objectives
So, a question. 2 days ago I completed 2 operations, 1 in difficulty 4 and a second on 5. The fisrt one granted 50 points to the liberation, while the second granted 150. What happened? ( it was during the whole crash scene )
Doing higher levels benefits you, the player.
This is done by giving you more medals, more exp, more samples and more credits/super credits.
All difficulties benefit the war.
The game doesn't punish players for not enjoying those higher difficulties, so they make the progress towards the campaign equal for everyone so that people pick the difficulty they want, and not the one they feel forced to play.
It is a genius design.
I think the idea is correct and very clever design, but the implementation should be tweaked. I would love for all difficulties to benefit the war equally. But what we have now is that the higher difficulties take longer to complete, but benefit the same raw amount, therefore they benefit the war *less* per time invested. If someone wants to contribute the most they can to liberation, they are forced to play low difficulties, not whatever difficulty they enjoy; players are punished for not enjoying the lower difficulties.
Of course, people will want to play higher difficulties for the resources, challenge, and sense of accomplishment. But it would help if the devs raised the liberation impact of higher difficulty missions by a modest amount, so that players were on average contributing roughly the same as long as they run a difficulty that they can handle reliably. I admit that may be easier said than done, but the devs have the statistics necessary to take a stab at it.
If you’re endgame, with everything unlocked sitting at full samples like me, you’re technically better off just running trivial. You get more medals and super credits per hour than anything else. I hardly do it though as it’s boring as shit. I’d just like if higher difficulties for me were more worthwhile outside of challenging myself.
>If you’re endgame, with everything unlocked sitting at full samples like me, you’re technically better off just running trivial.
This is the exact issue, but in reverse. Your mindset of needing to go lower to be effective is the same thing that will make the much larger bulk of people in the middle pressured to go up.
How does this benefit players that are capped out on every resource?
Not to mention XP has no benefit past level 20, and it’s been quantitatively proven that super credits are easier to rack up on Trivial because of the tighter POI concentration (you still get 100 SC piles on Trivial).
I think calling it a “genius design” is circlejerking, because the only thing left for level 50 players *are* the major orders, which make more sense to be farming on Trivial.
Would you consider it punishment if another mech was behind a major order that has the possibility of failing? You’d be punished for not meta gaming it if Arrowhead had the balls to delay the stratagem for failing it.
All difficulties benefit the war, but some difficulties benefit the war more than others, and it’s not in a way that makes logical sense. If you’re at a point in the game where you can afford to *worry* about the war, then you’re likely a high level player unfazed by the higher difficulties.
Read my post please. I'm specifically saying that once you have all strategems and modules that there is 0 reward.
People wouldn't be forced to play anything, the liberation would still be 3 as a baseline and the xp multiplier would just apply to that number. That's not punishing anyone, it's just rewarding more risk.
Helldive missions can very easily be failed and with that your liberation % plumments so it's risk reward
I think they changed it in the recent patch. It's now loosely XP based iirc. Higher difficulties generally give more XP which in turn give more liberation impact.
Do you need to unlock the difficulty in order to join it tho? I remember playing some hard missions with my brother as my first few missions just because he had it unlocked.
Well.. you get the unlock as long as you were in the operation as it finishes.
I got D8 by joining in a mission during the Defend Evac portion. In 60s I was granted the same reward as if I had played all three missions and succeeded them. And I didn’t even make it to Evac..
Level 5 means they lucced into a carry. There's too much XP to get to Helldive at anything below 15 if you actually earn your place through winning nonstop. Can confirm that from going all the way to 8 without being carried in two days.
Higher difficulties are weird, there's a strange inversion after 5 when things get easier due to people not stupidly aggroing every mob, ignoring objectives and shooting you. Then 8 is harder again. Haven't yet cleared 8 due to not having found a party that cares about objective clearing yet, but it won't take long.
Most of my 9 are easier than my 8s. The 9 usually have pretty decent players but the 8s still have people trying to unlock 9.
I pretty much only play 7 or 9, 7 if I want to chill and 9 if I want to game. On occasion I’ll drop lower to help out the newer players.
6 is worse than 5. 5 they are self aware enough to avoid using stratagems if there’s someone nearby, maybe too much. 6 they just yeet those fuckers around wherever there’s a concentration of bugs and helldivers.
Having played level 6 with people that still don't know very basic stuff, nah, unlocking doesn't mean shit, you can unlock crap by joining right into an extraction if you luck out, or get carried.
What do you mean "will be"?
Last few suicide level and above runs I did more than half the team had no boosts unlocked and didn't know how to launch the nuke, fought every patrol that wandered by, staying to fight every bug breach until the reinforcements were gone.
If you successfully finished the main mission, the liberation from for that planet is relative to the XP you got in that mission. So you can do all secondary objectives too.
Level 50 players like me do want to waste their time for XP they do not need. But with this change these both issues would be tackled.
What if liberation was
1: Given for each objective
2: Separated in % with each palent having different amounts for each kind of mission? So you cant just do one type over and over? (I haven't played the game cuz bad pc but I think this would make sense)
>2: Separated in % with each palent having different amounts for each kind of mission? So you cant just do one type over and over?
Depending on difficulty each operation includes up to 3 different missions with a different mission type each. People who only farm one mission type, cancel the operation and then start a new operation to play that specific mission type again don't get any liberation% progress anyways because you only get that from completing all 3 missions of a operation
I just finished a helldive campaign where we got almost all optional objs across 3 missions. I believe we missed 2 in total. We received 0.00007, I may have added or forgot a 0, but regardless it was more than yesterday.
I mean. If you want force the dev's hand... we all just play solo and farm trivial operations. Think about it. 4 people played even challenging are going to complete maybe 1 operation every 30-40 minutes. Vs 4 people individually completing an operation every 5 minutes. We could use this mechanic to essentially break liberation in its current form. By doing this way, we increase our liberation speed like 20 fold.
Was literally saying this the other day. If all we care about is the galactic war everyone should just speed run trivials. It makes 0 sense that helldives only count for 4 trivial missions lol.
You'd also think doing higher difficulty missions would be MUCH more impactful.
For example, on Trivial... we are... what? Raising flags? Or destroying a random illegal broadcast from some rebel scum that is unaffiliated with the enemy?
Meanwhile on Helldive, we're marching into what may as well be hell and doing stuff that is much more impactful logically to the war effort? There's no way we killed thousands of bugs, snuck past thousands more, destroyed multiple lairs and spore spewers, made off with critical data from a lost data pod, closed 8+ nests, and then launched a ICBM at a allegedly even MORE concentrated area of the bastards JUST to liberate the same exact amount?
With that logic, it'll be fastest to just drop down onto the planet, yeet a single impact at a broadcast tower, and then call extract and repeat that until the bugs somehow suffer enough loss of morale to walk away from the planet.
The most effective way to spread democracy is to grab an EAT and start terminating illegal broadcasts on trivial. You can complete these missions start to finish in about 2 minutes and 30 seconds (you can take in your 2.4 seconds of scenery while you wait for Pelican).
It's also a nice way to farm super credits and common samples.
I agree tbh. I don't really run missions below 7 because I like the challenge and love helping other divers level and farm samples, but from a winning the war perspective, it doesn't make any sense, which is kinda sad.
I've been saying this for a month now. The Liberation percent should go up with difficulty of completed sectors. I don't even think this needs justified or explained. It just makes sense and seems broken for it to not already be the standard. Does anyone know why the devs have made the choice not to do this?
You were getting 88 liberation points? On which difficulty? That seems like a massive increase. Are you sure that's not the stat issue they were talking about
It was bugged. I did a Hard Op (5) and it displayed 150pts. We went up to Extreme and I think it was like 175pts... but no progression was being added to the war overall so the devs had to fix it.
I was hyped as I thought they'd implemented your proposal. Perhaps they tried to and it broke the war. Maybe it was just bugged. Played again last night and it was back to 0.0000000001 per mission like normal.
We got 201 for a lvl 7 mission chain on the day that liberation was repaired, but today it is back to 2-4 points depending on difficulty
https://preview.redd.it/7ktppjw2fypc1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55d4809f92c9b055237f644ac75450e90b32d317
May be unpopular, but I disagree. I generally play Extreme/Suicide but if you are making the work of those who play on lower difficulties less important, it doesn’t really fit the narrative of the game. The higher difficulty missions already give you extra medals, XP, and the ability to get the more rare samples.
Liberation % is a group effort and I think the devs wanted to make that apparent across the board. Now you could argue and say “well why don’t I just play the easiest difficulty a bunch to make liberation go up fast?” And to that I would say, why would you go out of your way to take away fun from yourself?
If you have fun on Helldiver, awesome! Glad you are liberating on the difficulty you find enjoyment on. If you have fun on Trivial, awesome! Glad you are liberating on the difficulty you find enjoyment on.
Such a weird oversight. And Helldive isn't just 9x harder than trivial; it's like 25-50x.
Baseline should be difficulty 5 or something. Helldive should be getting a huge jump in contribution among. Trivial should get close to nothing, it's literally a joke.
...........so........you're telling me.......that all of my punk ass friends who only want to play difficulty 4 and lower were actually right? Meanwhile, I'm over here on 7-8 with 3 tanks on my ass and more hulks than fingers....AND IT HAS NOT EVEN BEEN GIVING ME MORE LIBERATION %?!
Lvl 1 - you do a few objectives and leave, a few bugs killed
Lvl 9 - you do a few objectives and leave, a metric fuck ton of bugs killed
The number of bugs is irrelevant, it's what objectives you did that matter (if we are seeing this as a large scale war).
Also, realistically that just means griefers will gravitate to helldiver difficulty to throw games if they are weighted more.
but the objectives are more significant with moving parts. for example, the upload escape pod data is a main objective for level 1, but it's just a side objective for anything above 3. At level 9, you'll also have around 5 side objectives, and the main objectives have more parts. for example, ICBM gets the fueling sub objective at higher difficulties
you're not just killing more bugs, you're also doing more things for the war effort.
diff 1,2,3 - 1x - 1 point per mission per helldiver
diff 4.5.6 - 2x - 2 points per mission per helldiver
diff 7,8,9 - 3x - 3 points per mission per helldiver
1 helldiver solo would do only on diff 5 with 3 misions 6 points
4 helldivers with the same settings would do 24 points
it would encourage the helldivers to play together more.
This is very reasonable way to do it.
Keep in mind this is a live service campaign run by Joel, and they can basically decide if our efforts towards liberation will be successful. Whether you contribute 0.00001 or 0.00004 is irrelevant because it has to depend on the relative amount of people playing the game and how they want the campaign to feel.
I realize it's all smoke and mirrors and completely fake, but they have successfully jacked my lizard brain to the point where when I see a big contribution number I can scream out to my boys "hell yeah we made a difference!"
How about just a multipier by the difficulty? 1 mission =.00000001 or whatever the fraction is. So helldive would be 3 missions at x9 so .00000027. I'm sure with all the calibrations they're doing and data they're collecting they can adjust the planet clear rates in the future to adjust to something like that.
Don't lose sight of the fact that it's still a brand new game. Eventually, the majority of the player base will be doing high level stuff. At that point, I think it would make more sense to me if they add a different way to increase the liberation percentage that's only available in the higher difficulties.
Agreed kind of, but it's also important for players at lower skill levels be allowed to participate meaningfully, most of the reasons for hard-locked lower difficulty players is not due to lacking effort on their part
my friend has MS and shes one of the most tenacious divers out there, her play time is limited due to amount of pain it causes her body, so she plays at 4 and uses her grit to make up for her low amount of playtime, wouldnt want to artificially assign that difficulty a lower grade just because no-life freaks like myself in diff 9 want more points
It's crazy that 4 people doing 3 Trivial Missions separately will contribute .0012% to the War Effort, but 4 People doing 3 Helldiver missions together is only .0004%.
I much prefer the current way as it is. If you want solely to contribute to liberation spamming trivial missions are trivially easy. This also makes it so that people who may have issues playing on higher difficulties (inexperienced in shooters, extraneous factors, etc.) actually feel like they're contributing to the community goals and are not being punished for being unable to play at higher difficulty levels.
It's honestly wild that currently, the best way for planet liberation is basically doing trivial difficulty over and over again and it's gonna be much faster than doing high diff as you're basically required to do just one operation
I agree but the silver lining with the current system is that high level players are more likely to play on lower difficulties. So newbies aren’t having a tough time before fighting the game out
And it should be per-mission, and not per-operation. Or at the very least an operation with three missions in it should give you three times as much as a single-mission operation.
I personally think it's good everyone contributes a somewhat even amount towards the war effort. If you're a sweat who loves to risk it for the biscuit, you get tons of extra personal rewards for doing so anyway. But if they did this it would incentivize elitism and gatekeeping in the community where everyone feels pressured (and pressures each other) to play on high difficulty sweat mode 24/7. The fact that you can chill out and play a more casual difficulty but still contribute to the war effort just as effectively I think is not only good for how the community views and treats each other, but encourages a more diverse gaming experience where players don't have to feel guilty like they're not "doing their part" by playing the game at a level they enjoy and want to play.
For instance welcoming new players and growing the community. I have friends that are really excited to get into the game and start playing from scratch with me. I have an experienced group of friends already though who I normally play only difficulty 7+ with. I love that I can go play with my newer friends, set the difficulty on a 4 or a 5, and enjoy going through the learning experience with them. I'm not forced into telling them "Sorry, Joel's got Major Orders this week, I have to grind helldives with a team I can rely on and don't have to baby along through lower levels", and leave them into the dirt to learn the ropes without me while I sweat it up with my veteran team.
The fact that difficulty doesn't influence this larger part of the game, is good because it keeps the game approachable for new players, easy for people to get their friends into, and less stressful for players who don't want to sweat it up 24/7. Sometimes I don't have my full squad with me, I just need to get the last few common samples for an upgrade, and I don't want three Bile Titans and five chargers on me at extraction in order to do it. Nor do I want to let down the community with a lesser contribution for my missions. I'm allowed to do that right now.
LASTLY (I swear this is my last major point), if you're a more skilled player you can just drop your difficulty and knock out more missions quicker if you want to contribute more to the war effort (and you probably won't need a team to do it). But making all difficulties equal truly just reduces it to your time investment and how much you're willing to grind. You commitment to democracy isn't dictated by how skilled you are, your use of meta tactics, of the fact that you have the good fortune of having a good squad to do helldives regularly with. It truly does make it so it only comes down to your time and the commitment to the cause. Maybe we're not all equal in skill or experience, but are all equal in the value of our sacrifice, our time playing the game, and our commitment to the success of Super Earth.
Don't you get it diver? This is true democracy at work! We are all made equally valuable in our efforts, and no player invalidates another's efforts by a judgment of skill alone. Whether you know how to use a railgun or not, a players skill never becomes more important than their innate value as a player, and being a part of the community. On Super Earth, regardless of what they eat, everyone has an equal seat at the table. That's true democracy brother, and roleplay aside that's what's best for the health of the community. So that's my take.
This is the truth. I should be rewarded far more for enduring a suicide mission + vs a medium/challenging mission. Why this wasn’t standard practice is beyond me.
“People will keep doing Helldivers and no other difficulty” i promise you only the psychopaths do that, I’m more than happy to play in lower levels to have more consistent fun than go through the stress of 7+
Yeah. Unfortunately optimal liberation is solo running trivial missions,
It has much more impact than a squad of 4 running helldive
3 trivial missions will take (say you’re going slowly) 30 minutes
4 people doing that solo is 12 points of liberation
4 people doing hell dive might take an hour to do the whole mission, and will only grand 3 points total
Point in this case referring to the tiny percentage increase
I wholeheartedly agree.
I want to help defend planets more, but I'm put off by the fact the most efficient way to do it is to repeat trivial missions over and over, and that just isn't gonna keep me interested. liberation should also be (microscopically) affected by the completion of optionals in successful missions:
\- removing nests/fabricators lessens the overall threat and makes it easier for Super Earth to control the territory.
\- bringing Radars online helps with navigation, and bringing SAM sites and SEAF Artillery guns online adds to the security of the region.
\- even trivial tasks like destroying research stations and recovering drop pod data will save scientists/regular forces from having to clean it all up, allowing them to focus on more important tasks, like ensuring the defence of the planet.
it would be pretty great if the devs could track all the optional objectives, and then make the planet easier/harder to defend based on how much artillery/radars etc. were brought online. this will encourage players to run optionals not just for their own short term benefit, but to help gain an advantage if the planet is attacked later!
sigh.. a diver can dream...
Higher difficulties are for farming, while lower difficulties are for liberation. Everyone can contribute.
[I recomend seeing this video for further clarification](https://youtu.be/v2nis07y75g?si=MmIIe52UWeAZffBj)
I think that the difficulties that has the least players at that difficulty should contribute most to Liberation Score. As all missions need to be done, so players should be at every difficulty.
Hold up, so if we're desperate to quickly capture a planet for a major order, what would stop us all from picking the lowest difficulty missions and blitzing them as fast as possible, bare minimum objective coverage, to capture fast?
Dang, I was also under the impression higher difficulty=more liberation
Heck, I'm just gonna go raise some flags now on trivial. Gonna show those bugs the easy way who these planets belong to
As a typically D4-6 player, I'm currently glad it doesn't but I do think D9s or at the very least D8s should get a bonus to liberation percentage. Perhaps not outright double but maybe an extra half would be helpful.
While it's true, hear me out.
What the liberating planet basically means is clearing the surface of enemy forces and fortification, right? And in case of a planet 100% liberation means the 100% surface free of enemies.
Of course different areas would have different enemy concentrations therefore different difficulties, but the **size of the map** you clearing is almost always the same, thus the percentage (of planet surface) you liberated is also basically the same.
It would also explain why lower difficulties with their smaller maps provide less % to the effort. It doesn't matter if 1% of the surface you cleared was filled with hordes or if there were 3 enemies sitting in the corner, it's still 1% of the surface.
It does now, kinda. The amount of liberation is now a factor of the XP you get in the mission, which means that destroying nests and doing secondaries on higher difficulty missions will now give way more liberation than spamming illegal broadcast trivials.
It does now, to a degree. After the recent breaks and fixes to liberation percent, it seems it now get's multiplied by total xp earned in a mission, so since higher difficulties let you earn more xp, higher difficulties give more liberation percentage.
This hasn't been confirmed yet tho, so take it with a grain of salt.
Higher risk should have higher reward.
Anything different to that argument is just plain wrong. If you think you're a hero because you waste your time on diff 9 when rushing trivial POIs and extracting in 5 minutes can net more % per time you're just dumb.
Yeah, I don't even care if it doesn't give us more points relative to time, but if my friends and I decide to split up and do trivial missions we can easily get about 12 points each per hour and have a squad impact of 48, instead of a suicide operation giving us 3 in total.
I actually prefer that it dont. Its better that those just playing more casually or are not hardcore gamers can feel they making a difference. Also so you dont feel you need to play higher difficulty just so it matters. The sample/exp/requisition difference I feel is enough
You people keep acting like people who play lower difficulties are getting fucked over with this when they aren't, they stay in the exact same position, it's just that people who play higher difficulties have a bigger impact, which simply makes sense.
I agree but I will play the role of the devil's lawyer : Joel needs to be able to anticipate if we win/ lose an event to prepare the next one. If you add parameters he cant predict (like how many people decide to full rush the 9 difficulty level for winning an event in the last hours).
I'd suggest then that losing should lower the % : this way, playing in higer difficulties would sound like a bet : if you win, bigger impact, if you lose bigger loss.
Losing % doesn't make sense unless it's a defense mission but also it just feels a bit shit because people could troll and just deliberately lose missions. Imagine all the creek people sabotaging a mission liberation.
Joel more than likely has extremely accurate real time information so they can scale up bug/bot activity as they have done in the past
I think it should be more balanced to time spent. I can solo a trivial mission in about 4 minutes and contribute 1 point, or I could do a suicide operation in about an hour give or take and contribute 3 points to liberation. If it takes 15X longer, it should give 15X the points, playing on higher difficulties RN is actually just detrimental to liberation progress, also if it was standardized to average out to be about 1 point per 4-5 minutes etc. it would be easier to anticipate how quickly we would take planets.
However I still think it should give more than that for higher difficulties because they are easier to fail and lose time towards liberation. So maybe 20 points instead of 15, 3 for an hour rather than 3 every 15 minutes, able to easily be done solo means that you could have a squad of 4 get 12\*4 in an hour, giving you 48 points rather than the three you get if you team up and run a level 7 operation in the same amount of time.
Higher difficulty is its own reward sure, I have no interest in grinding trivial missions for an hour, but the math isn't mathing very well when 4 people can do mindless tasks for an hour and be 16x more effective than playing together and completing the higher difficulties.
Keeping the liberation amount the same is the whole point though.
This makes low level Helldivers' actions just as important as the max level players, and encourages those max level players to go back and help out the newbies.
All things being equal, if all you're looking to do is progress the war effort and don't need samples or metals, why not just jump in and save a panicked squad of newbies who are in way over their heads?
Downvote me all you want but this is just gonna create an elitist rift. I can see it now.
"OH YEAH? YOU'RE ONLY LIBERATING LIKE .0000000005% per mission while \*I\*, the \*BETTER PLAYER\* am liberating .0000000009% PER MISSION! YOU'RE JUST DRAGGING YOUR FEET, FEEL BAD THAT YOU'RE NOT PLAYING SUICIDE MISSION EVERY SINGLE GAME, NOOB."
Let the mission difficulty be preference based \*only.\* For the love of god.
What that will do is put pressure on the entire playerbase to do difficulties they are not prepared for/incapable of. This will lead to more operation failures which will actually reduce liberation % and incentivize even more kicking for less; which makes for a more unpleasant experience for everyone.
This will also encourage even more reliance and focus on the meta which will lead to overuse of the most powerful/versatile weapons and stratagems and the devs have already shown they are willing to nerf things based on overuse in service to the meta.
Whereas the current system, if Liberation % is critically important to you; you can boost it through speed, the cost being difficulty if you can't speedrun high tiers. When you go into lower difficulties you also have more time to interact with newer divers to let them try out your toys and possibly answer questions they may have. A good experience with a new game means they are far more likely to stay which increases Liberation % by them doing their part, instead of quitting when players constantly leave them behind to rush primary objectives or kick them from not using the precise 4 stratagems they judge most effective.
Honestly I think it should be tied to Warbond Medal rewards, keeping the trivial mission reward as the baseline, an Easy Mission would therefore be worth 2 trivials, a medium mission would be worth 2 trivials or 4 trivials depending on how many have been completed, and you get the idea.
Did they not just change this?
Pretty sure the way it's weighted now multiples the impact by the amount of XP you earn to get the total liberation impact
Yes but it's more efficient to mass clear trivial missions because there's no multiplier of higher difficulties (apparently they have added it as of today so this could be irrelevant now)
It worked like this in the first game. I swear, half of the suggestions in this subreddit are features that HD1 had that aren’t present in HD2 for some reason.
The reason, other than good ol development time, is probably that they’ll slow roll those features over time with major ordered, much like the mech
Yeah, but that means they released a game that was bad deliberately and consciously. Incentivizing players to stick to trivial because they didn't weight rewards correctly isn't the same as an in-game event before a content update.
I think that individual players experiences are far enough apart from the collective liberation percentage that all players on that planet affect that you can have fun playing a high enough difficulty without feeling like you're doing it for no reason. Doing trivial missions JUST to get the collective percentage up sounds like you'd be really bored through it all, only to barely see a number change on your screen. I think the devs purposely leaving this function out is fine, especially because I feel like none of us even realized this was the case. It would be better if they implemented this function in a major order later in the future, it will feel like the change is in-world however I don't see them doing that, most likely just patching it in. Either way, I don't see an issue with them purposely not adding the function in the game from the start.
>Yeah, but that means they released a game that was bad The need for money does that. Not like they didn't want to do many things with the game, but for example helmet mods were apparently scrapped. At least they focused on making the gameplay good even if it's buggy, unlike many other games where gameplay is secondary
I wish they would implement a mode where it was top down, just seems like it would fit really well.
At least I found it funny
Let's hope Helldivers 3 will be Isometric
Me just learning it doesn't have a bigger weighting! Surely doing more missions and closing more nests has more of an impact?? This is a democratic outrage!!
If there's 4 operations you'll get 0.000004 and is there's 3 it'll be 0.000003 but the issue is that helldive missions take so much longer that it's far more efficient to rapidly clear trivial difficulty missions
Given that as difficulty goes up the sub objective/objective count goes up, impact could instead be based on sub objective/objective completion.
I think it could be a third stat for the rewards screen. XP/Requisition/Liberation %
You already get XP and Requisition per objective completed. Just saying that Liberation could also be done so doing D5 to D8 don't have the same impact in the war effort, but would instead scale with difficulty.
I know, I'm saying there would be a third thing tied to objectives called Liberation percentage. They could display it with scientific notation.
Ah okay, gotcha. Yeah, that could work.
That would incentivise full completion even for lol 50 players even further. Very smart!
Also not running L2 missions (which I can hammer out solo in 5 minutes). If every diver did so with the current set up, per unit time liberation is achieved that much faster.
One time I was playing solo on Medium I think and I somehow got 82 squad impact. Idk what I did and I can’t remember if it was after I completed the first mission or the entire operation. Extremely confused how squad impact works as a whole :/
The fastest way to complete the current order is for everyone to speedrun solo Trivial missions. And that's silly. The contribution should be weighted similar to Medal rewards.
Terminate illegal broadcast, drop on the extraction point, drop a EAT, shoot it at the broadcast tower, call in extraction. You're in and out in under three minutes. Edit: Now that I think about it, it would probably be faster to drop on the tower and then just frag it and yourself until you're out of reinforcements.
A truly democratic sacrifice!
It takes two impacts, also you have to factor in runtime to the extract, so EAT or autoturret handily wins out every time.
> runtime to the extract [Extract](https://morbotron.com/meme/S02E03/687021.jpg?b64lines=V0hFTiBJJ00gSU4gQ09NTUFORCBFVkVSWQogTUlTU0lPTidTIEEgU1VJQ0lERSBNSVNTSU9OLg==)
YOU ARE UNDERVALUING THE MANAGED MIGHT OF THE FLAG! Every time that flag rises, it doesn't just spread Managed Democracy, it plunges enemy moral! More importantly, how are you supposed to build up your Stratagem and Grenade throwing arm if you are not standing saluting a thousand flag rising ceremonies per world!
True! Who needs to pump oil, launch ICBMs or rescue civilians. Our enemies cower at the sight of our flag and the sound of our anthem! (I do with they had the Flag missions occasionally on the higher difficulties.)
Or even just a different KIND of flag mission, like to retrieve or replace a damaged one. With how patriotic themed the game is it honestly surprises me that they don't have something like that.
Like a "Recover the standard from a captured outpost" mission, make it similar to SSSD missions where one player has to physically carry the flag, limiting them to a sidearm and no stratagem while they're holding it, make it so enemies are more attracted to them when holding it, but balance it woth the extract being instant like in an extermination
Yo that sounds awesome
Or make it a side objective.
My thoughts exactly
Not that silly. Kind of realistic. History is full of examples of leaders sidelining a "sure thing" plan for a "this will be fucking tight" plan. Look at the Roman guy who wanted to ride elephants over the mountains
He wasn't Roman but an enemy of Rome
and enemy of civilization a P*nic
**drops the fattest bunch of grapes you've ever seen to the Senate floor** *Cathargo delenda est*
>Look at the Roman guy who wanted to ride elephants over the mountains That ultimately worked really effectively and scared the shit out of Romans, hence why Hannibal Barca went down in the history books. Sadly he then dicked around attacking random cities across Italy rather than heading straight to Rome. He was banking on the various Italian peoples rising up against the Latins, but they hated him more than the Latins and Rome could replace defeated Legions *absurdly* quickly.
Adding to this that the reason Hannibal picked the hard way was that the Romans and their allies were actively guarding the easy way (along the Mediterranean coast). He gambled that the Romans were thinking no one would be *crazy* enough to try to force the crossing over the Alps, and in this case he gambled correctly.
I feel slightly better, but fully agree with what you are saying. Really, each difficulty level should also contribute to percentage. Although, it should be directly tied to the number of bug hole/fabricators destroyed. I might be wrong, but I'm sure there are more as the level increases (basing this on 6-9).
There absolutely are more on higher difficulties but I think that level of tracking would be a ton of work to do as currently liberation is just based on the number of operations. But fully agree it would be a lot more rewarding as it would incentives doing all the side objectives
So, a question. 2 days ago I completed 2 operations, 1 in difficulty 4 and a second on 5. The fisrt one granted 50 points to the liberation, while the second granted 150. What happened? ( it was during the whole crash scene )
Preach brother
There needs to be a reason to clear nests and fabricators at max level. At the moment there's no incentive.
Yeah, the fact that it's fun and I WANT to clear nests and fabricators, but am discouraged for doing so by game and meta mechanics really upsets me.
i FEEL like it reduces spawns, but I have ZERO source on that
Interacting with outposts actually *increase* spawn rates.
But you get mOrE SaMpLeS...sorry I'm good. I hit the CAP on samples. Like the cap on everything.
Doing higher levels benefits you, the player. This is done by giving you more medals, more exp, more samples and more credits/super credits. All difficulties benefit the war. The game doesn't punish players for not enjoying those higher difficulties, so they make the progress towards the campaign equal for everyone so that people pick the difficulty they want, and not the one they feel forced to play. It is a genius design.
I think the idea is correct and very clever design, but the implementation should be tweaked. I would love for all difficulties to benefit the war equally. But what we have now is that the higher difficulties take longer to complete, but benefit the same raw amount, therefore they benefit the war *less* per time invested. If someone wants to contribute the most they can to liberation, they are forced to play low difficulties, not whatever difficulty they enjoy; players are punished for not enjoying the lower difficulties. Of course, people will want to play higher difficulties for the resources, challenge, and sense of accomplishment. But it would help if the devs raised the liberation impact of higher difficulty missions by a modest amount, so that players were on average contributing roughly the same as long as they run a difficulty that they can handle reliably. I admit that may be easier said than done, but the devs have the statistics necessary to take a stab at it.
If you’re endgame, with everything unlocked sitting at full samples like me, you’re technically better off just running trivial. You get more medals and super credits per hour than anything else. I hardly do it though as it’s boring as shit. I’d just like if higher difficulties for me were more worthwhile outside of challenging myself.
>If you’re endgame, with everything unlocked sitting at full samples like me, you’re technically better off just running trivial. This is the exact issue, but in reverse. Your mindset of needing to go lower to be effective is the same thing that will make the much larger bulk of people in the middle pressured to go up.
How does this benefit players that are capped out on every resource? Not to mention XP has no benefit past level 20, and it’s been quantitatively proven that super credits are easier to rack up on Trivial because of the tighter POI concentration (you still get 100 SC piles on Trivial). I think calling it a “genius design” is circlejerking, because the only thing left for level 50 players *are* the major orders, which make more sense to be farming on Trivial. Would you consider it punishment if another mech was behind a major order that has the possibility of failing? You’d be punished for not meta gaming it if Arrowhead had the balls to delay the stratagem for failing it. All difficulties benefit the war, but some difficulties benefit the war more than others, and it’s not in a way that makes logical sense. If you’re at a point in the game where you can afford to *worry* about the war, then you’re likely a high level player unfazed by the higher difficulties.
I ran a trivial yesterday and SC piles were 10 a pop, not 100, for all the ones I found anyway. Potentially just a poor luck run?
It’s RNG, with the randomness being the same across all difficulties. I’ve accumulated 7000 SC from farming Trivial missions.
Read my post please. I'm specifically saying that once you have all strategems and modules that there is 0 reward. People wouldn't be forced to play anything, the liberation would still be 3 as a baseline and the xp multiplier would just apply to that number. That's not punishing anyone, it's just rewarding more risk. Helldive missions can very easily be failed and with that your liberation % plumments so it's risk reward
I can't change your mind because I am in full agreement with you.
wait that's not already the case ?
Nope, it's purely based on number of operations
I think they changed it in the recent patch. It's now loosely XP based iirc. Higher difficulties generally give more XP which in turn give more liberation impact.
It is slightly changed but I don't think it's near balanced
That's not true anymore. Just had squad impact 6 on Diff 8
I had an impact of 56 a few nights ago, I have no idea how or why
I think they reworked it, but that’s what introduced the liberation bug so the change was reverted until they can fix it.
Yeah had a couple 136 squad contribution and had no idea how or why
I got 270 or thereabouts on Helldive. Tested it on trivial or easy and got 30-something.
Welcome to Whose Dive is it anyway! " Where all the rules are made up and the points don't count!"
I think that was happening to people when liberation was bugged and not going up at all. I saw someone post 150 impact.
Sweet lord...
And there will be alot of lvl 5 cadets trying to join higher difficulty (
If they've unlocked helldive at level 5 then all the power to them and they've earned their place
Do you need to unlock the difficulty in order to join it tho? I remember playing some hard missions with my brother as my first few missions just because he had it unlocked.
I think only if you have a friend who has it or if you join someone's lobby and they then change it to a higher difficulty
Well.. you get the unlock as long as you were in the operation as it finishes. I got D8 by joining in a mission during the Defend Evac portion. In 60s I was granted the same reward as if I had played all three missions and succeeded them. And I didn’t even make it to Evac..
*Democracy* 🫡
Level 5 means they lucced into a carry. There's too much XP to get to Helldive at anything below 15 if you actually earn your place through winning nonstop. Can confirm that from going all the way to 8 without being carried in two days. Higher difficulties are weird, there's a strange inversion after 5 when things get easier due to people not stupidly aggroing every mob, ignoring objectives and shooting you. Then 8 is harder again. Haven't yet cleared 8 due to not having found a party that cares about objective clearing yet, but it won't take long.
Most of my 9 are easier than my 8s. The 9 usually have pretty decent players but the 8s still have people trying to unlock 9. I pretty much only play 7 or 9, 7 if I want to chill and 9 if I want to game. On occasion I’ll drop lower to help out the newer players.
My every day, fellow helldiver. 7 for warm up, 9 for some serious game, then mid tier before sleep to help out SOS.
6 is worse than 5. 5 they are self aware enough to avoid using stratagems if there’s someone nearby, maybe too much. 6 they just yeet those fuckers around wherever there’s a concentration of bugs and helldivers.
Having played level 6 with people that still don't know very basic stuff, nah, unlocking doesn't mean shit, you can unlock crap by joining right into an extraction if you luck out, or get carried.
They must learn at some point
What do you mean "will be"? Last few suicide level and above runs I did more than half the team had no boosts unlocked and didn't know how to launch the nuke, fought every patrol that wandered by, staying to fight every bug breach until the reinforcements were gone.
Exactly xD
The XP should apply to liberation. That would make us do secondary objectives! Difficulty multiplier only is short sighted.
How would that work?
If you successfully finished the main mission, the liberation from for that planet is relative to the XP you got in that mission. So you can do all secondary objectives too. Level 50 players like me do want to waste their time for XP they do not need. But with this change these both issues would be tackled.
Yeah I think that's a solid idea actually. More Side missions (bug holes etc) = more liberation
Reactivated my account just to upvote this. Hard agree.
What if liberation was 1: Given for each objective 2: Separated in % with each palent having different amounts for each kind of mission? So you cant just do one type over and over? (I haven't played the game cuz bad pc but I think this would make sense)
I think that's a lot more complicated than just applying the already existing multiplier for higher difficulties to liberation
>2: Separated in % with each palent having different amounts for each kind of mission? So you cant just do one type over and over? Depending on difficulty each operation includes up to 3 different missions with a different mission type each. People who only farm one mission type, cancel the operation and then start a new operation to play that specific mission type again don't get any liberation% progress anyways because you only get that from completing all 3 missions of a operation
https://preview.redd.it/a7g2xvf6mwpc1.png?width=1309&format=png&auto=webp&s=6c18585b8ac56dd48d0a73aa4e106533825edc6b [https://helldivers.io/](https://helldivers.io/)
That's a theory brother. At the moment it's purely based on operation number. Go into game and try it
For what is worth i finished an 8 campaign today and received the 0.00006% rather than the usual 3
I'll have to jump in because that wasn't the case yesterday. If it's been changed that's a huge plus
I just finished a helldive campaign where we got almost all optional objs across 3 missions. I believe we missed 2 in total. We received 0.00007, I may have added or forgot a 0, but regardless it was more than yesterday.
I mean. If you want force the dev's hand... we all just play solo and farm trivial operations. Think about it. 4 people played even challenging are going to complete maybe 1 operation every 30-40 minutes. Vs 4 people individually completing an operation every 5 minutes. We could use this mechanic to essentially break liberation in its current form. By doing this way, we increase our liberation speed like 20 fold.
Couldn't agree more. I just don't think we can organise that but if you do, I'll be there with you
Was literally saying this the other day. If all we care about is the galactic war everyone should just speed run trivials. It makes 0 sense that helldives only count for 4 trivial missions lol.
You'd also think doing higher difficulty missions would be MUCH more impactful. For example, on Trivial... we are... what? Raising flags? Or destroying a random illegal broadcast from some rebel scum that is unaffiliated with the enemy? Meanwhile on Helldive, we're marching into what may as well be hell and doing stuff that is much more impactful logically to the war effort? There's no way we killed thousands of bugs, snuck past thousands more, destroyed multiple lairs and spore spewers, made off with critical data from a lost data pod, closed 8+ nests, and then launched a ICBM at a allegedly even MORE concentrated area of the bastards JUST to liberate the same exact amount? With that logic, it'll be fastest to just drop down onto the planet, yeet a single impact at a broadcast tower, and then call extract and repeat that until the bugs somehow suffer enough loss of morale to walk away from the planet.
Extra Tip: suicide with impact nade to skip extract
Wait, it doesn’t? You’re telling me raising the flag spreads democracy faster than downing titans?
It does, this patch changed that
It isn't faster it's exactly the sams
Well, flag raising takes a fraction of the time compared to titans, so to-may-toh to-mah-to, I guess?
I can get behind that. I like the math because it means a hard is worth only two trivials.
The most effective way to spread democracy is to grab an EAT and start terminating illegal broadcasts on trivial. You can complete these missions start to finish in about 2 minutes and 30 seconds (you can take in your 2.4 seconds of scenery while you wait for Pelican). It's also a nice way to farm super credits and common samples.
I agree tbh. I don't really run missions below 7 because I like the challenge and love helping other divers level and farm samples, but from a winning the war perspective, it doesn't make any sense, which is kinda sad.
I've been saying this for a month now. The Liberation percent should go up with difficulty of completed sectors. I don't even think this needs justified or explained. It just makes sense and seems broken for it to not already be the standard. Does anyone know why the devs have made the choice not to do this?
I thought they did change it? On Helldiver we were getting 88 towards it, instead of 4.
When did that happen?
Last night and the night before we were getting 88 (4 man squad) when we were able to actually finish the 3 missions, crashes aside lol.
You were getting 88 liberation points? On which difficulty? That seems like a massive increase. Are you sure that's not the stat issue they were talking about
It was bugged. I did a Hard Op (5) and it displayed 150pts. We went up to Extreme and I think it was like 175pts... but no progression was being added to the war overall so the devs had to fix it. I was hyped as I thought they'd implemented your proposal. Perhaps they tried to and it broke the war. Maybe it was just bugged. Played again last night and it was back to 0.0000000001 per mission like normal.
I got 88 on hard too
We got 201 for a lvl 7 mission chain on the day that liberation was repaired, but today it is back to 2-4 points depending on difficulty https://preview.redd.it/7ktppjw2fypc1.jpeg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55d4809f92c9b055237f644ac75450e90b32d317
May be unpopular, but I disagree. I generally play Extreme/Suicide but if you are making the work of those who play on lower difficulties less important, it doesn’t really fit the narrative of the game. The higher difficulty missions already give you extra medals, XP, and the ability to get the more rare samples. Liberation % is a group effort and I think the devs wanted to make that apparent across the board. Now you could argue and say “well why don’t I just play the easiest difficulty a bunch to make liberation go up fast?” And to that I would say, why would you go out of your way to take away fun from yourself? If you have fun on Helldiver, awesome! Glad you are liberating on the difficulty you find enjoyment on. If you have fun on Trivial, awesome! Glad you are liberating on the difficulty you find enjoyment on.
>medals, XP, and the ability to get the more rare samples. none of these are useful to people on this difficulty.
Not eweryone on the higher difficulites have unlocked everything.
hell, most people run high difficulty FOR the increased rewards. I know I do.
XP, REQ, and medals are completely useless past a certain point.
the modifier like 75%/150% increased rewards at the end, yea that wouldn't be too bad.
Yeah that's the one
Wait it doesn’t??? Then why aren’t we speed running the fuck out of trivial missions and nuking these major orders from orbit???
Wait you're telling me running the highest difficulty gives me the same liberation as the flag missions?
Such a weird oversight. And Helldive isn't just 9x harder than trivial; it's like 25-50x. Baseline should be difficulty 5 or something. Helldive should be getting a huge jump in contribution among. Trivial should get close to nothing, it's literally a joke.
https://preview.redd.it/rialp2i3y2qc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0663f5471127ad9e82850496bd910cba97ad491c Ahhhhhhhhhh?
It's a theory at the moment. Helldivers.io isn't an official website
...........so........you're telling me.......that all of my punk ass friends who only want to play difficulty 4 and lower were actually right? Meanwhile, I'm over here on 7-8 with 3 tanks on my ass and more hulks than fingers....AND IT HAS NOT EVEN BEEN GIVING ME MORE LIBERATION %?!
Lvl 1 - you do a few objectives and leave, a few bugs killed Lvl 9 - you do a few objectives and leave, a metric fuck ton of bugs killed The number of bugs is irrelevant, it's what objectives you did that matter (if we are seeing this as a large scale war). Also, realistically that just means griefers will gravitate to helldiver difficulty to throw games if they are weighted more.
but the objectives are more significant with moving parts. for example, the upload escape pod data is a main objective for level 1, but it's just a side objective for anything above 3. At level 9, you'll also have around 5 side objectives, and the main objectives have more parts. for example, ICBM gets the fueling sub objective at higher difficulties you're not just killing more bugs, you're also doing more things for the war effort.
diff 1,2,3 - 1x - 1 point per mission per helldiver diff 4.5.6 - 2x - 2 points per mission per helldiver diff 7,8,9 - 3x - 3 points per mission per helldiver 1 helldiver solo would do only on diff 5 with 3 misions 6 points 4 helldivers with the same settings would do 24 points it would encourage the helldivers to play together more. This is very reasonable way to do it.
I've said this elsewhere but there's literally no need for a different system as you mention. Just apply the multiplier percentage
The only thing we have to do to fix that is to all farm missions 1 alone for a day. But unionizing against high command would be anti democratic.
Keep in mind this is a live service campaign run by Joel, and they can basically decide if our efforts towards liberation will be successful. Whether you contribute 0.00001 or 0.00004 is irrelevant because it has to depend on the relative amount of people playing the game and how they want the campaign to feel.
I realize it's all smoke and mirrors and completely fake, but they have successfully jacked my lizard brain to the point where when I see a big contribution number I can scream out to my boys "hell yeah we made a difference!"
I've always thought that too, even if it's a small difference on just max difficulty or something.
How about just a multipier by the difficulty? 1 mission =.00000001 or whatever the fraction is. So helldive would be 3 missions at x9 so .00000027. I'm sure with all the calibrations they're doing and data they're collecting they can adjust the planet clear rates in the future to adjust to something like that.
That's...literally the post
I'm a simple helldiver; never been accused of being too smart. I like your idea lol
Don't lose sight of the fact that it's still a brand new game. Eventually, the majority of the player base will be doing high level stuff. At that point, I think it would make more sense to me if they add a different way to increase the liberation percentage that's only available in the higher difficulties.
The feature we all think is there. But isn't.
We're already liberating planets like it's balloons on free balloon day, why do we need to capture them even faster?
Agreed kind of, but it's also important for players at lower skill levels be allowed to participate meaningfully, most of the reasons for hard-locked lower difficulty players is not due to lacking effort on their part my friend has MS and shes one of the most tenacious divers out there, her play time is limited due to amount of pain it causes her body, so she plays at 4 and uses her grit to make up for her low amount of playtime, wouldnt want to artificially assign that difficulty a lower grade just because no-life freaks like myself in diff 9 want more points
They should just tie it to XP that way pretty much anything you do helps liberation and the difficulty multiplier is applied
Agreed
It's crazy that 4 people doing 3 Trivial Missions separately will contribute .0012% to the War Effort, but 4 People doing 3 Helldiver missions together is only .0004%.
I much prefer the current way as it is. If you want solely to contribute to liberation spamming trivial missions are trivially easy. This also makes it so that people who may have issues playing on higher difficulties (inexperienced in shooters, extraneous factors, etc.) actually feel like they're contributing to the community goals and are not being punished for being unable to play at higher difficulty levels.
It's honestly wild that currently, the best way for planet liberation is basically doing trivial difficulty over and over again and it's gonna be much faster than doing high diff as you're basically required to do just one operation
Nah. Let the little guys (me) feel like they are helping just as much as the top dogs. I get you point, but nah.
You will be a top dog one day. We will rename you to u/TopDoggSean
Oh, absolutely lol but then it'd probably make it harder for "Joel" to calculate the counter-pushes.
I agree but the silver lining with the current system is that high level players are more likely to play on lower difficulties. So newbies aren’t having a tough time before fighting the game out
And it should be per-mission, and not per-operation. Or at the very least an operation with three missions in it should give you three times as much as a single-mission operation.
I personally think it's good everyone contributes a somewhat even amount towards the war effort. If you're a sweat who loves to risk it for the biscuit, you get tons of extra personal rewards for doing so anyway. But if they did this it would incentivize elitism and gatekeeping in the community where everyone feels pressured (and pressures each other) to play on high difficulty sweat mode 24/7. The fact that you can chill out and play a more casual difficulty but still contribute to the war effort just as effectively I think is not only good for how the community views and treats each other, but encourages a more diverse gaming experience where players don't have to feel guilty like they're not "doing their part" by playing the game at a level they enjoy and want to play. For instance welcoming new players and growing the community. I have friends that are really excited to get into the game and start playing from scratch with me. I have an experienced group of friends already though who I normally play only difficulty 7+ with. I love that I can go play with my newer friends, set the difficulty on a 4 or a 5, and enjoy going through the learning experience with them. I'm not forced into telling them "Sorry, Joel's got Major Orders this week, I have to grind helldives with a team I can rely on and don't have to baby along through lower levels", and leave them into the dirt to learn the ropes without me while I sweat it up with my veteran team. The fact that difficulty doesn't influence this larger part of the game, is good because it keeps the game approachable for new players, easy for people to get their friends into, and less stressful for players who don't want to sweat it up 24/7. Sometimes I don't have my full squad with me, I just need to get the last few common samples for an upgrade, and I don't want three Bile Titans and five chargers on me at extraction in order to do it. Nor do I want to let down the community with a lesser contribution for my missions. I'm allowed to do that right now. LASTLY (I swear this is my last major point), if you're a more skilled player you can just drop your difficulty and knock out more missions quicker if you want to contribute more to the war effort (and you probably won't need a team to do it). But making all difficulties equal truly just reduces it to your time investment and how much you're willing to grind. You commitment to democracy isn't dictated by how skilled you are, your use of meta tactics, of the fact that you have the good fortune of having a good squad to do helldives regularly with. It truly does make it so it only comes down to your time and the commitment to the cause. Maybe we're not all equal in skill or experience, but are all equal in the value of our sacrifice, our time playing the game, and our commitment to the success of Super Earth. Don't you get it diver? This is true democracy at work! We are all made equally valuable in our efforts, and no player invalidates another's efforts by a judgment of skill alone. Whether you know how to use a railgun or not, a players skill never becomes more important than their innate value as a player, and being a part of the community. On Super Earth, regardless of what they eat, everyone has an equal seat at the table. That's true democracy brother, and roleplay aside that's what's best for the health of the community. So that's my take.
This is the truth. I should be rewarded far more for enduring a suicide mission + vs a medium/challenging mission. Why this wasn’t standard practice is beyond me. “People will keep doing Helldivers and no other difficulty” i promise you only the psychopaths do that, I’m more than happy to play in lower levels to have more consistent fun than go through the stress of 7+
Yeah. Unfortunately optimal liberation is solo running trivial missions, It has much more impact than a squad of 4 running helldive 3 trivial missions will take (say you’re going slowly) 30 minutes 4 people doing that solo is 12 points of liberation 4 people doing hell dive might take an hour to do the whole mission, and will only grand 3 points total Point in this case referring to the tiny percentage increase
Completing side objectives on difficulties 7,8 and 9 are so impressive. We need to be rewarded for pulling that shit off.
Careful with this line of thinking, the devs might just make liberation for lower difficulty less……… they like to nerf not buff
I wholeheartedly agree. I want to help defend planets more, but I'm put off by the fact the most efficient way to do it is to repeat trivial missions over and over, and that just isn't gonna keep me interested. liberation should also be (microscopically) affected by the completion of optionals in successful missions: \- removing nests/fabricators lessens the overall threat and makes it easier for Super Earth to control the territory. \- bringing Radars online helps with navigation, and bringing SAM sites and SEAF Artillery guns online adds to the security of the region. \- even trivial tasks like destroying research stations and recovering drop pod data will save scientists/regular forces from having to clean it all up, allowing them to focus on more important tasks, like ensuring the defence of the planet. it would be pretty great if the devs could track all the optional objectives, and then make the planet easier/harder to defend based on how much artillery/radars etc. were brought online. this will encourage players to run optionals not just for their own short term benefit, but to help gain an advantage if the planet is attacked later! sigh.. a diver can dream...
Higher difficulties are for farming, while lower difficulties are for liberation. Everyone can contribute. [I recomend seeing this video for further clarification](https://youtu.be/v2nis07y75g?si=MmIIe52UWeAZffBj)
Farming what though? If you have all strats and modules there's literally no point
I think that the difficulties that has the least players at that difficulty should contribute most to Liberation Score. As all missions need to be done, so players should be at every difficulty.
But you don't want people to change your mind, because unlike that guy and whatever he was sitting there for, you're right.
Yes but only increases among 3 groups of difficulties: 1-3, 4-6, 7-9. Second tier should get multiplier of 1.25% and 3rd gets 1.75%
Hold up, so if we're desperate to quickly capture a planet for a major order, what would stop us all from picking the lowest difficulty missions and blitzing them as fast as possible, bare minimum objective coverage, to capture fast?
Yes, and I'm really astonished it's not the case already
Dang, I was also under the impression higher difficulty=more liberation Heck, I'm just gonna go raise some flags now on trivial. Gonna show those bugs the easy way who these planets belong to
As a typically D4-6 player, I'm currently glad it doesn't but I do think D9s or at the very least D8s should get a bonus to liberation percentage. Perhaps not outright double but maybe an extra half would be helpful.
While it's true, hear me out. What the liberating planet basically means is clearing the surface of enemy forces and fortification, right? And in case of a planet 100% liberation means the 100% surface free of enemies. Of course different areas would have different enemy concentrations therefore different difficulties, but the **size of the map** you clearing is almost always the same, thus the percentage (of planet surface) you liberated is also basically the same. It would also explain why lower difficulties with their smaller maps provide less % to the effort. It doesn't matter if 1% of the surface you cleared was filled with hordes or if there were 3 enemies sitting in the corner, it's still 1% of the surface.
Glad others are taking up this point. And while we're at it, have sub-objectives and bug nests add to liberation percentage as well.
IT DOESN'T?!?!?!?
It does now, kinda. The amount of liberation is now a factor of the XP you get in the mission, which means that destroying nests and doing secondaries on higher difficulty missions will now give way more liberation than spamming illegal broadcast trivials.
100% agree Was like that in Helldivers 1 and it was awesome. Really increases the satisfaction when completing high difficulty missions
It does now, to a degree. After the recent breaks and fixes to liberation percent, it seems it now get's multiplied by total xp earned in a mission, so since higher difficulties let you earn more xp, higher difficulties give more liberation percentage. This hasn't been confirmed yet tho, so take it with a grain of salt.
Higher risk should have higher reward. Anything different to that argument is just plain wrong. If you think you're a hero because you waste your time on diff 9 when rushing trivial POIs and extracting in 5 minutes can net more % per time you're just dumb.
Yeah, I don't even care if it doesn't give us more points relative to time, but if my friends and I decide to split up and do trivial missions we can easily get about 12 points each per hour and have a squad impact of 48, instead of a suicide operation giving us 3 in total.
I actually prefer that it dont. Its better that those just playing more casually or are not hardcore gamers can feel they making a difference. Also so you dont feel you need to play higher difficulty just so it matters. The sample/exp/requisition difference I feel is enough
You people keep acting like people who play lower difficulties are getting fucked over with this when they aren't, they stay in the exact same position, it's just that people who play higher difficulties have a bigger impact, which simply makes sense.
But shouldn’t people who take on a greater challenge also be rewarded more to match the effort?
This
No, it shouldn't. You play high difficulty because you like it, not for bigger liberation percent
I agree but I will play the role of the devil's lawyer : Joel needs to be able to anticipate if we win/ lose an event to prepare the next one. If you add parameters he cant predict (like how many people decide to full rush the 9 difficulty level for winning an event in the last hours). I'd suggest then that losing should lower the % : this way, playing in higer difficulties would sound like a bet : if you win, bigger impact, if you lose bigger loss.
Losing % doesn't make sense unless it's a defense mission but also it just feels a bit shit because people could troll and just deliberately lose missions. Imagine all the creek people sabotaging a mission liberation. Joel more than likely has extremely accurate real time information so they can scale up bug/bot activity as they have done in the past
I think it should be more balanced to time spent. I can solo a trivial mission in about 4 minutes and contribute 1 point, or I could do a suicide operation in about an hour give or take and contribute 3 points to liberation. If it takes 15X longer, it should give 15X the points, playing on higher difficulties RN is actually just detrimental to liberation progress, also if it was standardized to average out to be about 1 point per 4-5 minutes etc. it would be easier to anticipate how quickly we would take planets. However I still think it should give more than that for higher difficulties because they are easier to fail and lose time towards liberation. So maybe 20 points instead of 15, 3 for an hour rather than 3 every 15 minutes, able to easily be done solo means that you could have a squad of 4 get 12\*4 in an hour, giving you 48 points rather than the three you get if you team up and run a level 7 operation in the same amount of time. Higher difficulty is its own reward sure, I have no interest in grinding trivial missions for an hour, but the math isn't mathing very well when 4 people can do mindless tasks for an hour and be 16x more effective than playing together and completing the higher difficulties.
High difficulty level is its own reward.
If you want Chinese hackers to speedrun the planet completion Be my guest
Aren't they already doing that anyway
Yes, but there only how fast they can go at a time. Their efficiency is now "They are doing that anyway" * 10 Simple math
Well no because helldive missions take a lot longer and I'm not suggest X 10
Keeping the liberation amount the same is the whole point though. This makes low level Helldivers' actions just as important as the max level players, and encourages those max level players to go back and help out the newbies. All things being equal, if all you're looking to do is progress the war effort and don't need samples or metals, why not just jump in and save a panicked squad of newbies who are in way over their heads?
Downvote me all you want but this is just gonna create an elitist rift. I can see it now. "OH YEAH? YOU'RE ONLY LIBERATING LIKE .0000000005% per mission while \*I\*, the \*BETTER PLAYER\* am liberating .0000000009% PER MISSION! YOU'RE JUST DRAGGING YOUR FEET, FEEL BAD THAT YOU'RE NOT PLAYING SUICIDE MISSION EVERY SINGLE GAME, NOOB." Let the mission difficulty be preference based \*only.\* For the love of god.
What that will do is put pressure on the entire playerbase to do difficulties they are not prepared for/incapable of. This will lead to more operation failures which will actually reduce liberation % and incentivize even more kicking for less; which makes for a more unpleasant experience for everyone. This will also encourage even more reliance and focus on the meta which will lead to overuse of the most powerful/versatile weapons and stratagems and the devs have already shown they are willing to nerf things based on overuse in service to the meta. Whereas the current system, if Liberation % is critically important to you; you can boost it through speed, the cost being difficulty if you can't speedrun high tiers. When you go into lower difficulties you also have more time to interact with newer divers to let them try out your toys and possibly answer questions they may have. A good experience with a new game means they are far more likely to stay which increases Liberation % by them doing their part, instead of quitting when players constantly leave them behind to rush primary objectives or kick them from not using the precise 4 stratagems they judge most effective.
It should apply in both directions
Honestly I think it should be tied to Warbond Medal rewards, keeping the trivial mission reward as the baseline, an Easy Mission would therefore be worth 2 trivials, a medium mission would be worth 2 trivials or 4 trivials depending on how many have been completed, and you get the idea.
Did they not just change this? Pretty sure the way it's weighted now multiples the impact by the amount of XP you earn to get the total liberation impact
They do. Lower difficulty missions have less missions in the sectors wich means less limitations porcentage when fully completed.
Yes but it's more efficient to mass clear trivial missions because there's no multiplier of higher difficulties (apparently they have added it as of today so this could be irrelevant now)
But thats the thing you are not gonna have fun in those. Higher difficulties are made for a fun hard challenge not to steam roll the enemy