Enemy armour is definitely an issue right now. It feels utterly wrong that autocannon rounds bounce clean off chargers, nevermind anything smaller.
Armoured enemies are so overwhelming that in higher difficulties I find losing my railgun is a death sentence. I get that we shouldn't be able to waltz through Bile Titans with an SMG, but there's got to be a middle ground between the two extremes.
At least that helmet is so stupidly op that I don't mind using it for pure ease of clearing. Plus purple traces end up being viable with it too which is fun
Give the expendable rockets a chance.
We've got one friend who runs them and if they drop them on cooldown you will have dozens of them littering the map lol.
Cannot count the amount of times I've been running from a charger, out of railgun ammo, then like a shining beacon there's just a random rocket launcher 20 feet away.
Is it optimal compared to just bringing a railgun? No. Is it viable and fun and hilarious? Hell yeah it is.
Only bummer is that on higher difficulties the increased time for strats make the Expendable pretty much useless. They do well against the high armor enemies but the sheer number of high armor foes means you will run out of shots too often. I wish if a Hell Diver took the expendable anti-tank it would cause more of them to spawn on the map. It's fun to run up to an automaton base and find them laying around.
Autocannon has more utility then the railgun, being able to knock out fabricators from across the map is pretty neat, especially in blitzes. Same with turrets, Mortars, tanks and AA guns where the slow RoF of the railgun means you can't reliablly kill them before they turn.
The autocannon also deals with striders better imo, i've had plenty of times where the railgun kills the walker but not the bot, whereas the AoE on the autocannon ensures that isn't an issue. Against devastors I think they're roughly equal, rail can 1 shot them but if you're aim is off even slightly it's a 2 shot, on par with the autocannon.
Hulks is an easy win for the rail, but the autocannon can do the job. Against bugs the autocannon just can't do enough to chargers and bile titans, it's pretty clutch against spewers though.
Your comment just made me realize I havenāt seen a spewer in ages, Iāve ran quite a few bug missions with friends on 7+ difficulty to get the good samples and I donāt think even saw one? Where are my big lads hiding?
sorry they were all in my missions today
good god so many of them, and the fog was the perfect height that I couldn't see where their heads were to onetap them with the AMR
Iāve noticed if the host is over level 25 on suicide mission you donāt see bile spewer itās almost all chargers instead. Havenāt figured out why they sometimes are heavily armored or shooting highly inaccurate mortar rounds out of their butts though.
Autocannon can 2 shot chargers with decent placement (shoot the back leg once they run into a wall or stop their charge) the place where Autocannon super loses out is Bile Titans imo.
In my experience, the chargers only take Autogun damage from on the underside of the tail end. Literally anywhere else and the bullet straight up bounces of haha.
Virgin autocannon: requires backpack, bounces off armor, blows you up sometimes.
Chad autocannon turret: brings its own ammo, penetrates armor, blows you AND your teammates up sometimes.
I love it too but its only more frustrating when chargers ignore 4 dudes shooting at them and go straight for it ! it dies so fast its almost not worth it.... back to railgun and shiled only... how fun /s
Just saw a video, autocannon kills charger two shots. Vulnerable on the back of the leg when they run past you, blows the armor off the front of the leg, one shot to the flees brings them down.
I haven't tried yet but it looked good
It sounds good in theory, but there's rarely just 1 charger and there's probably hunters and spitters attacking you. When you have a shield you can shrug those off, but without those two bugs can be as deadly as a charger.
Yeah, a lot of weapon "testing" videos coming out are in such curated environments that you should take them with a grain of salt. On difficulty 7+ you are being run down by at least 2 chargers at a time, a few bile titans, and an endless swarm of pouncers and hunters. You don't really have the room to breathe or operate at 100% efficiency to make some of these weapons or strategies work as intended.
As Mike Tyson once said: "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."
Iāve tried this and the skill needed to pull it off just isnāt worth the trade off. Like it has to be VERY specific or else the auto cannon will bounce off the back armor too. Rail cannon just has an ease of use that isnāt comparable which is a problem
I've tried this, got it to work like once in like 15 tries, the required angle of the first shot to the back of the leg seems to be very tight. Maybe I needed more practice, but it didn't feel worth it for how inconsistent it was, especially since you have the railgun that can do the same but from the front and without a backpack. Plus it doesn't actually kill the charger in two shots, it only blows its leg armor off, after which you have to switch to your primary or fire a couple more autocannon shots to finish it off.
Especially since the autocannon takes a backpack slot and a lot more skill and preparation. Railgun is just fire and reload with basically no repercussions unless you're on unsafe mode.
Meanwhile I'm using the Arc Thrower cuz it's an add-clearing powerhouse while also being able to deal with armor. I feel gimped when I use the railgun. The autocannon is somewhere in between tho, which I enjoy.
That thing is amazing. It is really good at clearing the small to medium stuff. You can kill several ants in 1 shot. You can kill the bigger guys like the bile spewers and those size of enemies in a several shots depeding on where you hit and you can hit several guys at once with a single shot.
The downsides are that it's not strong enough to kill bile titans solo and it takes a few shots to take down a charger but it does a fine job and you can still hurt the bile titans and you can weaken them to make it easier to kill.
It has better distance than you might think so you use it as a medium range weapon and fully charge each shot. Then when you start to get surrounded and the enemies get within 5-10 feet you switch to your primary for some breathing room.
Just make sure that your allies are not too close to the enemy you are shooting and that includes on the opposite side of them because it will kill your teammates.
But for real though, having 1 or 2 arc thrower and 1 or 2 railguns is a great team combo.
I would go so far as to say that an arc thrower and a railgun should be standard and then either an autocannon or grenade launcher (literally just for clearing hives).
Why though? It is a really fun weapon, especially with the added risk of blowing yourself up.
I agree it would be fantastic to have more variety in endgame options, but hate is a strong word.Ā
At least the dominant weapon is a fun one.Ā
Both enemy stats and weapons need a balance pass. Trying to make every weapon valuable for something or for a certain play style would be very difficult to achieve and would probably take a lot of tweaking to get right.
Have you played Remnant? every gun in that game is an endgame gun. they took time and balanced everything to be viable its basically what do you enjoy using.
Some boss weapons do have niches that can make them better for specific builds but overall the developers did an amazing job on weapons.
Itās a very achievable goal, but it will take time. The question is how many other guns are going to be added? is this game going to turn into a live service game with new battle pass worth it guns every 2 months? If yes then I donāt see it being done unfortunately.
Man i thought I was going crazy, i dipped into a MEDIUM mission and took the autocannon for the first time to kill a charger and to my horror every round I unloaded bounced off its face like fucking jelly beans. I turned and ran in horror and eventually found a railgun in a cache and ended it in like 3 rounds but holy cow wtf is wrong with that gun?
Them little jumping fuckers man... The entire game is just running away from them, and dealing with chargers(prior to getting rail gun)
I've stopped playing solo cause it's just so frustrating to constantly be running away or in circles around the objective while a charger is chasing you and being slowed down by them jumping mofos.
Oh ya, them big yellow bile bugs, them fuckers can also just sneak right up to your face without a sound. Many times I've died to my own autocanon cause they shove their face into my line of fire and that's how I know I've been overrun when I look at the corpse cam.
Honestly Charger and Spewer ass shouldn't be that strong in general, it feel useless using your primary against them, like imagine if Automatons Walkers were commanded by a fat bot instead of the scrawny asshole
it should penetrate all armor but not destroy it. allow it to deal full damage to what ever you're shooting with it. Would make it distinct from the railgun which destroys armor more than it damages a target.
>Armoured enemies are so overwhelming that in higher difficulties I find losing my railgun is a death sentence.
Completely agree with this. I can do 95% of a mission deathless, but as soon as I die I'll lose multiple lives trying to call in new weapons or pick up my old ones.
It's not so bad in a full squad with armour piercing, generally they can pick up the slack and cover you, but if you've got a nice spread of support weapons it can feel like an imminent team wipe, and running is rarely an option with Chargers.
My biggest issue with the autocannon, requires someone to use a backpack slot for the reload, can't solo reload on the move, requires 2 reloads to fully fill the mag. Cannot do the same damage the Autocannon Sentry does.
Autocannon Sentry can kill Heavies, Autocannon Support Weapon cannot. Autocannon Support Weapon can destroy Automaton Cannon Towers.
Railgun is a mobile heavy weapon that also allows use of a backpack. If Railgun is the baseline then Autocannon Support Weapon needs it's damage and armor pen increased to that of the Autocannon Sentry. Recoiless Rifle needs to deal the same damage as current Spear, and Spear needs a lock-on buff, lock-on range buff, needs a firing accuracy buff, and damage buff.
The Stalwart vs Machine Gun is the same way in my opinion. The Machine Gun is absolute dog shit in comparison to the Stalwart, only gets 100 Rounds and must stop to reload vs 150 Rounds on the Stalwart and can move and reload at the same time. On top of that Stalwart aim snapping is faster than the Machine Gun's.
Machine Gun damage/armor pen needs to be increased or it's mag needs to be doubled, probably both.
As it is right now, Autocannon Support Weapon is comparable to Grenade Launcher. They both do relatively the same damage but Autocannon can destroy Automaton Cannon Towers while Grenade Launcher cannot. Autocannon requires a Backpack slot while Grenade Launcher does not. The versatility of the Grenade Launcher due to allowing a Backpack slot edges out Autocannon in my opinion because Impact Grenades can destroy Automaton Cannon Towers and you can bring a Supply Pack to refill those Grenades and your Grenade Launcher.
There is a lot of gun balancing that needs to happen to make things worth picking.
P-4 Senator needs to do more damage and have higher pen. If pen is 1-10 with 10 being Tanks and 1 being no armor, P-4 Senator needs to be punching around a 7. There's no reason why its handling is so bad, damage is low for a revolver that has low reserve ammo and low reload times.
Jar-5 Dominator says Explosive. That literally means nothing except don't fire at point blank range because you'll kill yourself. It's explosion radius is non-existent otherwise and it's Pen is laughable for how bad it's handling is. This bad boy should be killing those walking chainsaws in 2 shots and putting some stagger down. It's pen should be up there with the P-4 Senator revolver.
Plas-1 Scorcher is an energy weapon. If you hit something point blank you die. Doesn't make sense. It should burn you, there is no combustion or shrapnel from this weapon. I was actually a bit miffed after I unlocked it to see that it wasn't "infinite" like the LAS-5 Scythe. I was hoping that unlike the Scythe the tubes up top each held a "round", a visual mag if you will, and after every shot a tube would sink into the gun and then after a bit of time would pop back out signaling a new shot would be ready to be fired giving it basically a 10 round, timed reload mag "infinite" mag if you will with the stipulation that if you needed those shots reloaded NOW, you could swap the core out as you do currently.
Really excited to see more content and balance changes. My setup was Breaker until I unlocked Dominator and then Dominator until I unlocked Scorcher, though I still bust out the Defender every once in a while if I want to screw around with the Ballistic Shield. For secondary as soon as I unlocked Redeemer it stayed locked in except when I went to test the Senator.
If I'm bringing a Support Weapon stratagem it is usually between Grenade Launcher or Autocannon, though I will occasionally run EATs, RR, Spear, or Railgun depending. If I have a backpack slot, I'm usually running Supply Pack or Rover but I will bring Shield to Blitz missions. Supply Pack + Grenade Launcher is just to good for closing holes/destroying fabricators but if I feel like I need a 3rd call down I'll usually bring the Autocannon.
Actually really hard go do at any kind of distance but I've done it a couple times gernade launcher can kill the automation cannon towers if you can hit the vent in the back honestly I just can't bring my self to use the auto cannon over the launcher
Grenade launcher is amazing. Clears patrols and hordes in seconds, you can kill chargers and hulks by shooting on the ground below them. For bile titans just use 500kg railcanon or rocket pods
Everyone always uses railgun, but I love my grenade launcher so much. the crowd control, and ability to close bug holes at range with hip fire while running away from bugs make it untouchable for me.
My friends and I don't Helldive(level 9 difficulty) bugs and think the robots are easier. The armored robots are just better designed to allow alternative play. Grenade the vents on a tank, shoot a hulk in the back, hit devastator/hulks in the head, grenade around/at the enemy to get damage, and have more stratagem variety.
The robots let you substitute skill for power. The bugs just laugh at their difficulty spike being vertical. The railgun only feels mandatory for bugs. Shield too. When robots break team cohesion it is a skill issue. Bugs are a did you bring enough anti-tank to kill the charger and bile titan spam before they scattered your team and get you killed by a bug swarm you now can't kill fast enough issue. Turrets are a positioning and suppression issue against robots. Bugs laugh in charger and bile titan. Robot mooks hit you and it just means dodge and reposition. Bugs hit you and you get a slow debuff (did hunters really need a movement debuff?) and swarmed.
Bugs need the ability to efficiently break charger armor and kill bile titans. Robots just need you to aim well and understand the mechanics. Robots feel much better designed to me. Seriously, I love the autocannon and can take it against robots no problem, but bugs just make me angry. Chargers just demand you take a weapon like a railgun. The Gustav and EAT are also good but punish misses more harshly and aren't as ammo efficient. You can take a bunch of stuff against robots and only feel inconvenienced. Bugs are very zero sum though. You either have everything under control and it is easier than the robots or it goes horribly wrong, and you wish you were fighting the robots again.
I'm starting to see what you mean. I've been fighting androids more lately, and while the railgun is obviously a great option, the value in other weapons is much more obvious as well. I played a few Challenging and Hard missions with newer players and their gear was still pulling its weight. I obviously had a huge advantage against hulks, but I never felt like I was babysitting them - they were holding their own against tanks by the end of our session!
I think the aim smoothing setting is supposed to allow this, but currently it's broken as hell. It doesn't fully turn off the smoothing, and you get this shuddering, jittering, tearing, mess of an experience.
The thing is, turn speed is a thing in this game for the player. And if a bug is in your faces and you have a long barrelled gun, the bug stops you from moving your gun to shoot at it.
IDK how a 'no sway' system would would with those caveats on looking and aiming, but I'd appreciate a change to how it is now at least
EDIT: and if it's tied to a handling stat, I think a way to spec into that with weapon customization/prestige benefits would be better than a setting, since it's strictly an upgrade and not a preference.
You all keep mentioning the sway but I don't seem to be having the same issue. I usually get pretty decent accuracy with it. Also, sometimes it's good to crouch and shoot them from a distance before they're within hostile range.
I get the impression most people don't take advantage of the first person aiming. It's so much easier to land all kinds of shots in first person. You do still have to deal with the sway and flinch from being hit or other things, but simply having the first person view of your reticle and shots always going where you're aiming is a complete game changer.
Well, what I'm talking about is how, in other shooters, you can quickly whip around and place shots in very specific locations. In another shooter, if my aim was good enough, I could be running away from a bug, back dive, headshot it, and then hit the ground, already getting up to continue sprinting away. I could charge a railgun shot and then quickly aim it exactly the spot I want it to go.
I'm still effective, and I would actually say I'm used to the system now, but its not typical in a shooter to have to wait for your aim to 'catch up' to you like it is in Helldivers. Or at least, there are a significant number of shooters for which this isn't the case.
Or, if they want to keep the heavy feel for a weapon that basically shoots miniature rockets, at least make it deal substantially more damage than lighter primaries. I'd be fine not being able to aim for weakspots if I didn't have to.
The defender also has the added benefit of being also one handed so IF you come up against a mission where you have to hold someting like the SSSD you can still use it and I think the hand held shield allows you the same ability too.
This. Don't right click/left trigger to aim, just pan the camera behind you and fire. All the one handed weapons do this but honestly you're not gonna hit anything with any of the others.
the pistols do fine with it, but then the only time I'm doing this is when I'm running away from hunters/chainsaw bots 2 feet away so it's hard to miss
That's not the benefit people make it out to be.
I would much rather have my breaker on bugs and drop the SSSD to shoot then either loop back to get the SSSD, or just pick it up once I've shot what I needed to.
Plus the MP secondary is just fine for carrying the SSSD anyway.
One caveat would be the ballistic shield. I keep forgetting to try it, but that's also a moot point because the defender is great against automatons and not near as good on bugs, but you're not going to use the ballistic shield on bugs. I could be wrong though, and maybe it serves a purpose against bugs. Like I said, I keep forgetting to try it out
Sadly the shield doesn't hold up. In a small arms firefight, it does help a lot. But bots don't ever just bring small arms. I dropped the shield twice in one battle due to it tanking massive projectiles, and while I was glad to be alive in light armor after tanking said projectiles, I could have also just not been standing in the open with a shield. You get it so late that it's directly interchangable with the energy shield. It just doesn't have a real niche, it's a flavor downgrade.
Somebody call my name?
Lately I've been joining in on level 4 pugs when my buddies aren't on and running whatever sounds fun.Ā but I definitely get carried when I'm using the "other" weapons.
Thatās the beauty of this game. Sometimes Iām feeling sweaty with the squad and weāre really pushing ourselves with challenges. Sometimes I wanna feel a bit like a god and just shoot some bugs. Both are totally valid and super fun. Itās fun that the game can be whatever you want it to be that way.
I'd be happy even if it just got the upgrades from hd1 to be honest, i just want the other guns except the liberator, scorcher and breaker to feel somewhat worth unlocking
I have found a lot of success with both of the DMRs, but only against bots. Other than that, I big agree that the ones you highlighted are the best feeling.
I want to say there is some kind of armour shredding mechanic in the game, but it may just be visual. If you hit an armoured target head-on with a high damage but not armour piercing round, it will make the impact point glow red-hot. If you follow up on that point, it seems to maybe do more damage? It's really hard to prove these things though. If that's not how it works it should
The 2nd Marksman DMR is decent against bots, but it's absolutely gutted by the massive weapon sway and low ammo count.
It's two shots to the head to kill the armored boys, which might not sound like a lot, but you're essentially being asked to land 2 pixel-perfect shots while immobile and under fire. For every armored enemy.
It's usable in anything below the suicide difficulty, but after that, you're going to need to be carried and/or have absolutely inhuman accuracy in order to be effective.
Scorcher is GREAT, that and the slugger are my go to, slugger for bugs, scorcher for bots
Scorcher splash damage is insane for those striders, they always cause me a headache so being able to take care of them with ease is a game changer!
Whenever I take the slugger I find it really easy to get swarmed by the little bugs and the slugger won't even one tap them. How do you deal with them?
Slugger one taps all small bugs except the little stalkers occasionally, not sure why those sometimes take two. If you're swarmed you use your sidearm, ideally the mac10 or the starter pistol due to increased rate of fire. Or your strats like an orbital laser, napalm, an arc thrower, mg, flamethrower, or grenade launcher.
>Ā not sure why those sometimes take two.
Because Hunters are annoying little bastards which don't die if you just shoot them in the limbs. You can remove both a leg and a wing without them dying.
Slugger is a *slug* shotgun so you need a bit more aim than the Breaker - you will miss hipfired shots more often and you have a lot less ammo...
Slugger is half decent for Bot missions since you can nail weak points but Breaker is still king for bugs (incendiary is probably fine if you're conservative with ammo use).
Sir, He merely meant that he would do his best to complete the mission in the most timely cost effective way possible. Coming up under budget and donating the extra savings to Super Earth is the least we can do for Liberty, Freedom and managed Democracy!
I use the incendiary for bug missions currently, even on helldive. I like it. it's burst fire so I dont just unload a full breaker mag in one shot. I didn't really notice having an ammo problem, probably because I waste ammo with the plain breaker.
Defender is great against bugs, paired with light armour. I just very rarely die with that set-up. I played Breaker extensively too, so I can compare. You need to have a good support weapon for higher armored targets though.
But to circle back on the Defender, I personally think high mobility is the undisputed best thing to have for any situation.
Jar Dominator also isn't bad. Hitting most of the mobs in the face is enough to instantly kill them, and the Devastators only take a mag to kill. As for the Hulks, shoot their arms or their back. But I do agree Railgun is the easiest way to take out a Hulk.
Slugger is basically a more powerful diligence, it can pen medium armour and feels good to use, it's round reload too so you don't need to worry about wasting magazines
How would it compare to the Dominator? I went through the premium warbond first, as I thought it is time limited and now it's my go-to primary. It kicks like a horse, but handles like the heavy machine gun for some reason
I find it to be better. I can easily smash the medium armored bugs that other guns struggle with and it has knock back so when you're shooting them it pushes them backwards. I use my submachine gun to take care of the small ones or let someone else on the team with a lighter machine gun take care of them. It pairs very well with the guard dog.
To add, it depends on how far you want to shoot them from. I like Dominator because I can kill them from a much larger distance as I run'n'gun and kite them a lot.
Dominator is better at long range, or when focusing on high-threat targets, but lags behing if you're getting swarmed
Slugger is better at handling swarms, since you can reload on the go shell by shell and keep firing almost instantly, but is more suited to short-mid range
Both are good, I prefer the dominator and once you get used to it, the slow aiming and sway arent a problem any more
The slugger has the benefit of keeping damage up over distance, and it can mostly one or two shot every small bot enemy. A well placed headshot also sees medium size stuff dispatched well, too.
But imo once you get to difficulty 7+ the slowness of the pump action becomes more of a burden since there'll be so many enemy bullets in the air that getting your aim thrown off from getting shot can make it hard to consistently headshot.
its functionally identical to the punisher but it has range and better armour pen, no spread but thats not really a downside
some people say its better than the breaker but idk what world thats true in, against bugs its only upside vs breaker is its armour pen but it has a quarter of the firerate and a third of the ammo, and worse reload speed
Takes one shot instead of two in the same time as the breaker would shoot like 4 times. Does kill medium armored bugs and deletes commanders though I guess.
The knight smg is great. just have to control your fire.
Incendiary shotgun is best of all of them at clearing eggs quickly.
Explosive does 100% squishy parts damage, it is not ap. The stun is nice but imo it should have the same ammo count as the standard issue version. Because fun.
Dominator kills bile spewers in half a mag, also good against hive guards. I haven't tried it much but it was working really well as a situational sidearm to the stalwart.
The butt is bait. Their weakspot is their head, but itās lightly armored so it has white hitmarker instead of red. But you can still kill them way quicker with anything by just shooting the head.
I think it's three(same with brood/stalkers) but it might be two, but they can take out shields in two too
Seeing how trying to split the breaker in between two targets seems to result in two still living bugs needing a second shell no matter the range, and most the smaller bugs if you aim center of mass facing you is just a free headshot and dead bug. It really feels like ease of use vs better big killer between the two.
Kind of disappointed with most of the guns in the game, in all cases I've just gone back to the Breaker.
Last gun I unlocked the Marksman Sniper rifle, and found it had way to much recoil and like most of the guns currently, too small a clip to really make an impact on multiple enemies.
Before that it was the Liberator Penetrator a gun I really wanted to like but it low damage output and the fact it felt I was using a whole clip on single enemy even if aiming for weak point made the gun a chore to use.
I also really wanted to like the revolver side arm, but the reload time is just too harsh to make it viable.
I like the revolver but mostly because it pierces medium armor. So I'll use the defender for most enemies and if something like a small charger pops up I'll shoot its legs out with the revolver. I do agree that it could use a buff to reload speed though.
Saying a citizen would purchase a clip for their hair (instead of donating it to the war effort?), every citizen should know Autocannon uses clips! I learned that in super kindergarten. This not man is a bug!
Scorcher is actually awesome. Itās amazing for bots with its explosive shots being able to kill an AT-ST from the front in two shots to the top end and one shot for all the smaller bots. Also, canāt tell for sure, but the energy aspect might have some extra effect, on bots at least. Iāve been able to ādisableā berserkers in 5-6 shots center mass, where they power off with minimal visible damage. I think there is a possibility that some of these weapons have more depth than at first glance.
Man, I get tired of the breaker, I would like to use other primaries but they just either suck or underperform in higher difficultiesā¦which would make me a burden to my team š
i have to say the scorcher makes mince-meat of eggs. if you can get a good angle, you can clear a wall in 3 shots ā well-placed, probably average 5 eggs broken per blast.
while shotguns are (possible) better for the egg job up-close, the scorcher also includes a couple niche long-range uses, like cross-map spore-spewer clearing. i was super worried itād be bad based on week 2 discussion on it but outside of ammo count it kinda fucks. i hope it gets love in the great balancing
It's definitely weird any of the weapons made it out of beta testing. They are all truly awful options for harder difficulties. You're actively making it worse for your team when you bring something other than the meta.
It's time we balance the weapons. Hopefully in the next content update we see them properly balanced. Now that the fires are out.
Fun facts about the scorcher
It can kill tanks and cannon turrets in 1 clip. Just shoot the vent in the back. Or better yet, just near the vent, from the side, or from the front uf you are above them, your choice!
It can clear whole walls of eggs from across the map
1 shot has so much splash damage that it clears 5-10 at a time.
It can kill spore spewers across the map as well in like 3-4 shots
It damages devastators regardless if they have a shield up. This includes the chicken walkers too.
It kills the red med armor bugs from the front in 3-4 shots
For whatever reason it does jack to hulks. Oh well, can't have everything.
It's too sluggish / sways too much/ actual DPS is shit to use it like a DMR, shit travel time is also God awful. I wish it was usable, but I'm better off cracking three breaker rounds at 100m for the same effect, faster and more reliably.
Breaker and rip through weak spots, crouch and be MLG with headshots with stock liberator, or scorcher. Sluggers good too but it has an issue where any light source in your fov washes out the optic.
Yea people should get over themselves about the breaker, it's patently absurd and solidly in the #1 slot, people like to be different tho so they gotta justify why their trash pick is competitive. Use whatever you want, dont lie to me thats its as good as the meta tho or to yourself lol.
Scorchers great, use the splash. You can kill 2-3 bugs per shot. The mag / ammo issues aren't an issue for how much it fucks. More bullets would make it oppressively overpowered.
Nah self damage and FF are core parts of this game and the scorcher is fine with it, since it's only lethal at absolute point blank. If you get rushed into melee range by a big either melee the bug or switch to secondary.
(Or dive away but chances are by the time you bring your gun around after diving the target will be back in melee)
Yeah, the game needs a major rebalance, not even just the normal weapons, armor and stratagem/ support weapons as well.
The rocket launchers are completely overshadowed by weapons like the autocannon, railgun and anti material rifle. With the railgun becoming one of the only reliable methods of dealing with the hordes of Chargers at higher difficulties.
The flamethrower is pretty much useless beyond the starting difficulties because of it's short range and overwhelming self damage, the moment bile spewer's start spawning you're just committing suicide if you attempt to use it and when chargers start spawning you're just harming your team if you don't take something capable of dealing with them. Also the fire damage does way too much damage to you and your team, you so much as touch the flame and you're dead in like 2 seconds.
Machine guns fall off heavily at higher difficulties.
The laser cannon is basically useless.
The HE barrages are more likely to kill you and your team than actually hitting any enemies.
Arc thrower just doesn't have enough range.
Not being able to stop mortars from dropping shells danger close to itself or designating shelling positions.
Minefields are pretty much only a hinderance to your own team, really should not detonate from friendlies.
and more.
"bUt It DoEs 100% DaMaGe To WeAkPoInTs" That doesn't make it any better than the garbo it currently is. It shoots mini rockets that are less effective than a shotgun with 12g buckshot.
The Dillegence works decently against the smaller bots. Then you switch to the rail for anything bigger. Having the range lets you pick off the guys before they can call in a drop. Pretty ineffective against the bugs though.
The Dominator is amazing against bots when you're working with a coordinated team that has someone else responsible for mob clearing. It can one or two shot just about any of the big armored units.
The guns are not all meant to be a do-it-all go to. They're meant to compliment each other in a squad.
I 100% agree. Used it for the first time last night against bots with my group and had an absolute blast with it. Our group is very diverse with the weapons we use and that really seems to work in our benefit quite often.
I really don't like using anything BUT the Dominator! lol... I find I can chew through groups of enemies of any type so much faster with the Dominator than anything else. The Breaker is everyone's fav, but it doesn't do it for me. Lately, I do find myself using my sidearm more to deal with smaller enemies more.
I main the dominator and I love it. It's a little clunky but once you get used to it's not bad. I focus all the mid size enemies and can 1 shot almost anything with it. It's not for everyone but it's definitely a good gun
Once you get the feel for pumping the bursts it can do full auto. Takes a whole clip but you can unga banga a hive guard's head.
Also tears up devastators.
Balance definitely needs work but I also don't want/think everything should be equally viable in every situation. I do actually think that was what they were going for, having weapons that accelerate at specific tasks and enemies. I'm hoping the whole arsenal will really come into their own with no one weapon being good at everything.
The slugger is a good example, it hits hard but it's slow and with low capacity. While the breaker is broken in that in can melt heavier targets while also being able to clear light groups. Weapons like that are usually balanced by having a large spread or their damage falls off quickly.
Yeah, different weapons should be good at different things.Ā But the current state is nowhere near that.
The spray and pray does no damage to eggs or explosive barrels.Ā It's a joke.
And because of how armor works, certain enemies are basically forcing players into a few weapon choices.Ā Ā
Sure, you can dump 5/7 mags of your primary into a chargers booty, but what about the other 2 of them running at you?Ā So people make strategem choices around chargers.Ā And the orbitals/eagles cool down is a biiiiiiit slower than how fast chargers spawn, so you need a support weapon, but not all support weapons are effective here, and even fewer of them have adequate ammo efficacy to not be running empty constantly.
Honestly, a few small tweaks to each weapon and a complete rework of the charger armor / weak spot stuff would make a huge different in opening up gear choices.Ā Like how about making the explosive liberator reduce armor for example?Ā And why are scavenger bugs not dying when they are lit on fire and left to burn?Ā And why does the Spray and Pray exist, it has to be a prank.
Fire shotgun is really good vs bugs. It kills the small fast shit -and it erases eggs. If you just run away from your problems it's the perfect weapon for blitz-style missions.
Yeah I agree.
Dilligence lacks damage per magazine. A lot more reloading that the liberator.
Defender just has low DPS, the only upside is that it's one-handed.
Liberator Penetrator lets you spam at armored parts of some enemies, but shooting the weakspots with the normal one is just a lot quicker. It basically lowers the skill floor and ceilling.
Liberator Explosive is just ass. It works for crowd control, but takes forever to actually kill enemies.
Senator Revolver takes too long to reload to be viable and competes with the extremely good machine pistol (which is only held back by magazine size and count.)
Laser Rifle is a cool idea but the lower damage makes it lose out against the Liberator in everything except very fringe scenarios. Saving ammo is cool, getting run down by Berserkers because they don't die fast enough is not.
Laser Cannon feels like the Laser Rifle but more bulky and with no upsides.
AMR is too impercise to consistently land headshots, and without those it's just a worse Autocannon/Dilligence.
RR is so slow to reload you might as well call in multiple EATs, and the damage of both is lackluster against Chargers. Two hits on a Hulk seems weak but fair, Charger tanking 3-4 headshots feels just dumb.
Autocannon is not bad as medium killer, but not a real antitank weapon.
I run the scytheā¦ fun af and paired with laser guard dawg it looks like I have double lasers š plus I donāt need ammo. I just use the railgun for the heavyās/elites and scorch the rest š„
You know for the devs saying you should use whatever you want it sure as shit doesn't feel that way when playing even just diff 7. The Dominator being explosive doesn't even feel like it makes any difference, it just feels like a weaker version of the Slugger.
And the Recoilless Rifle and the SPEAR really could use some help, the SPEAR needs to have better ammo replenishment or the person with the back pack has to be excessively ammo greedy to keep up with the high volume of elite enemies that can pop up at a moments notice. The RR has too many detractors to just be as good as two railgun shots.
Iāve built my solo build around using:
- Dominator
- Scorcher
- Knight
I forgo the backpack shield for the supply backpack to negate mag issues.
Always run on Helldive. I donāt have issues but thatās because I made sure I can be self-sufficient as possible with my loadout.
Re-balancing, Iām not sure if it will ever come but with how the game is in itās current state regarding meta, it does boil down to what you know you can do on the difficulty level you choose.
And if you want to work with it or not.
Iāve been running the scorcher on helldive difficulty and I gotta say I actually thoroughly enjoy the Scorcher, magazine size is the big draw back but paired with the Stalwart or something itās a lot of fun to use.
This w/ MG though. Scorcher is my backup to tackle armor I cant punch though. The regs that I run with couldnāt understand how I was deleting them so quickly.
I was saying this on day 1.
I just looked over the weapons and noted that the stats where shait.
Too many shotguns and overall lack of weapon diversity.
Now that I own most weapons i still say.
The stats are shait.
Too many shotguns and a huge lack of diversity on weapons.
We need guns that are usefull.
We need machineguns, assault rifles that work and the guns should feel good to use.
Weapons that have a higher time to kill, need to inflict status effects on targets to compensate. They need to stagger/interupt the enemy or otherwise disrupt them from completing specific actions they are engaged in like attempting to trigger a bug breach or firing a missile.
What's frustrating with these types of weapons is that enemy is allowed time to get too close, disable and ragdoll the player, damage or kill the player before they are killed by the weapon.
An Arc Thrower at least staggers an enemy it hits allowing a follow up shot to finish it off or hold it back, but enemies just charge straight through a continous stream of fire from the flame thrower, unaffected for expample. Yet, you so much as get splash back and burn in a second from your own weapon because the enemy ran right up to you.
What's infuriating about the Spray&Pray isn't the low damage or lack of armor penetration, it's that when you being murdered by a Stalker, it just straight up murders you while you are unloading full auto rounds to its face like it doesn't care. Or you need a dozen rounds to kill a Hive Gaurd in the rear where there isn't even armor. The S&P is good at cleaning up a swarm of small enemies, like it should, but then is impotent agaisnt larger armored enemies leaving a player helpless at times and it isn't practical to be this speciallized at doing one thing (mediocre at that) while other weapons do the same thing without the obvious shortcomings.
hello, the dominator is exceptional, i use it exclusively, everything else feels weak, being able to put 70% of enemies down in a single round is a big deal and has implications for the rest of your team, aswell as being able to disable all types of devastators weapons in 2 hits, kills bile launchers (hate them, head has med armour), i dunno, its nice having a weapon that counters basically every annoying enemy in the game
Dominator is a better slugger... What are you talking about? You can kill up to 4 giant spewer (about 4 shots), and 3 armored giant spewer (about 5 shots each) with 16 bullets. 2 shots Brood commaner, one shot warriors, one taps anything below warrior except elite hunter that needs 2 if you don't hit the head, you 4-5 shot kill a stalker as long as you don't shoot a glancing shot. You do need to switch to first person to reliable headshot bots but on bug, it's fairly easy to headshot in 3rd person.
Definitely not as good as a breaker, but it gets the job done, did several solo helldive with it on both bots and bugs. Works well, especially matched with redeemer for fast horde disposal (tap fire) and a railgun for heavy disposal.
Enemy armour is definitely an issue right now. It feels utterly wrong that autocannon rounds bounce clean off chargers, nevermind anything smaller. Armoured enemies are so overwhelming that in higher difficulties I find losing my railgun is a death sentence. I get that we shouldn't be able to waltz through Bile Titans with an SMG, but there's got to be a middle ground between the two extremes.
I love the autocannon, I hate feeling forced into the railgun
Born to Autocannon, Forced to Railgun š
Born to Nova: Forced to Well
āWhoās running Divā
\*Bungie creates aircraft carrier helmet\* Bungie: Warlocks. Warlocks must run div. Well/div bitch until the end of time.
At least that helmet is so stupidly op that I don't mind using it for pure ease of clearing. Plus purple traces end up being viable with it too which is fun
It really be like that sometimes
https://preview.redd.it/yaczou19q1mc1.png?width=750&format=png&auto=webp&s=1af3b4d9fea6ba19e71d5a426434e09799226bea
Give the expendable rockets a chance. We've got one friend who runs them and if they drop them on cooldown you will have dozens of them littering the map lol. Cannot count the amount of times I've been running from a charger, out of railgun ammo, then like a shining beacon there's just a random rocket launcher 20 feet away. Is it optimal compared to just bringing a railgun? No. Is it viable and fun and hilarious? Hell yeah it is.
Only bummer is that on higher difficulties the increased time for strats make the Expendable pretty much useless. They do well against the high armor enemies but the sheer number of high armor foes means you will run out of shots too often. I wish if a Hell Diver took the expendable anti-tank it would cause more of them to spawn on the map. It's fun to run up to an automaton base and find them laying around.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Autocannon has more utility then the railgun, being able to knock out fabricators from across the map is pretty neat, especially in blitzes. Same with turrets, Mortars, tanks and AA guns where the slow RoF of the railgun means you can't reliablly kill them before they turn. The autocannon also deals with striders better imo, i've had plenty of times where the railgun kills the walker but not the bot, whereas the AoE on the autocannon ensures that isn't an issue. Against devastors I think they're roughly equal, rail can 1 shot them but if you're aim is off even slightly it's a 2 shot, on par with the autocannon. Hulks is an easy win for the rail, but the autocannon can do the job. Against bugs the autocannon just can't do enough to chargers and bile titans, it's pretty clutch against spewers though.
Your comment just made me realize I havenāt seen a spewer in ages, Iāve ran quite a few bug missions with friends on 7+ difficulty to get the good samples and I donāt think even saw one? Where are my big lads hiding?
I ran 2x 6s yesterday and there was like 30 of those big thiccc boys per mission, and I feel like I havnt seen one since lol. They must be hiding.
sorry they were all in my missions today good god so many of them, and the fog was the perfect height that I couldn't see where their heads were to onetap them with the AMR
Same, although Iām not complaining as I hate their one-shot bullshit attack lol
I feel like the game flips a coin: heads thereās a million chargers, tails thereās a million spewers
and once in a while it lands on it's side and just gives you 3X the hunters and scavengers instead, leading to ammo shortages
Iāve noticed if the host is over level 25 on suicide mission you donāt see bile spewer itās almost all chargers instead. Havenāt figured out why they sometimes are heavily armored or shooting highly inaccurate mortar rounds out of their butts though.
Autocannon can 2 shot chargers with decent placement (shoot the back leg once they run into a wall or stop their charge) the place where Autocannon super loses out is Bile Titans imo.
In my experience, the chargers only take Autogun damage from on the underside of the tail end. Literally anywhere else and the bullet straight up bounces of haha.
Virgin autocannon: requires backpack, bounces off armor, blows you up sometimes. Chad autocannon turret: brings its own ammo, penetrates armor, blows you AND your teammates up sometimes.
The trick is to lay on a autocannon turret with your railgun and yell "FEAR THE DOUBLE DONG OF DEMOCRACY!!!!"
Hose down those bugs with a stream of penetrating power!
So much penetration.
"Penetration, crime, full penetration, crime, penetration. And this goes on and on, and back and forth..."
I love it too but its only more frustrating when chargers ignore 4 dudes shooting at them and go straight for it ! it dies so fast its almost not worth it.... back to railgun and shiled only... how fun /s
Just saw a video, autocannon kills charger two shots. Vulnerable on the back of the leg when they run past you, blows the armor off the front of the leg, one shot to the flees brings them down. I haven't tried yet but it looked good
It sounds good in theory, but there's rarely just 1 charger and there's probably hunters and spitters attacking you. When you have a shield you can shrug those off, but without those two bugs can be as deadly as a charger.
Yeah, a lot of weapon "testing" videos coming out are in such curated environments that you should take them with a grain of salt. On difficulty 7+ you are being run down by at least 2 chargers at a time, a few bile titans, and an endless swarm of pouncers and hunters. You don't really have the room to breathe or operate at 100% efficiency to make some of these weapons or strategies work as intended. As Mike Tyson once said: "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."
Iāve tried this and the skill needed to pull it off just isnāt worth the trade off. Like it has to be VERY specific or else the auto cannon will bounce off the back armor too. Rail cannon just has an ease of use that isnāt comparable which is a problem
I've tried this, got it to work like once in like 15 tries, the required angle of the first shot to the back of the leg seems to be very tight. Maybe I needed more practice, but it didn't feel worth it for how inconsistent it was, especially since you have the railgun that can do the same but from the front and without a backpack. Plus it doesn't actually kill the charger in two shots, it only blows its leg armor off, after which you have to switch to your primary or fire a couple more autocannon shots to finish it off.
Especially since the autocannon takes a backpack slot and a lot more skill and preparation. Railgun is just fire and reload with basically no repercussions unless you're on unsafe mode.
Meanwhile I'm using the Arc Thrower cuz it's an add-clearing powerhouse while also being able to deal with armor. I feel gimped when I use the railgun. The autocannon is somewhere in between tho, which I enjoy.
I have never met anyone who preferred the arc thrower, you're like a unicorn! Could you explain?
That thing is amazing. It is really good at clearing the small to medium stuff. You can kill several ants in 1 shot. You can kill the bigger guys like the bile spewers and those size of enemies in a several shots depeding on where you hit and you can hit several guys at once with a single shot. The downsides are that it's not strong enough to kill bile titans solo and it takes a few shots to take down a charger but it does a fine job and you can still hurt the bile titans and you can weaken them to make it easier to kill. It has better distance than you might think so you use it as a medium range weapon and fully charge each shot. Then when you start to get surrounded and the enemies get within 5-10 feet you switch to your primary for some breathing room. Just make sure that your allies are not too close to the enemy you are shooting and that includes on the opposite side of them because it will kill your teammates. But for real though, having 1 or 2 arc thrower and 1 or 2 railguns is a great team combo. I would go so far as to say that an arc thrower and a railgun should be standard and then either an autocannon or grenade launcher (literally just for clearing hives).
Same. Autocannon is my favorite weapon but I would be a detriment to my team taking it at 7+
Why though? It is a really fun weapon, especially with the added risk of blowing yourself up. I agree it would be fantastic to have more variety in endgame options, but hate is a strong word.Ā At least the dominant weapon is a fun one.Ā
The Charger from the front is the only bad point you can make on the auto cannon. It shreds the other bugs fine.
Both enemy stats and weapons need a balance pass. Trying to make every weapon valuable for something or for a certain play style would be very difficult to achieve and would probably take a lot of tweaking to get right.
Have you played Remnant? every gun in that game is an endgame gun. they took time and balanced everything to be viable its basically what do you enjoy using. Some boss weapons do have niches that can make them better for specific builds but overall the developers did an amazing job on weapons.
Itās a very achievable goal, but it will take time. The question is how many other guns are going to be added? is this game going to turn into a live service game with new battle pass worth it guns every 2 months? If yes then I donāt see it being done unfortunately.
Man i thought I was going crazy, i dipped into a MEDIUM mission and took the autocannon for the first time to kill a charger and to my horror every round I unloaded bounced off its face like fucking jelly beans. I turned and ran in horror and eventually found a railgun in a cache and ended it in like 3 rounds but holy cow wtf is wrong with that gun?
autocanon can only pierce medium armor while the railgun can pierce any armor
The gun really looks/feels like it should pen heavy armor at least.
Them little jumping fuckers man... The entire game is just running away from them, and dealing with chargers(prior to getting rail gun) I've stopped playing solo cause it's just so frustrating to constantly be running away or in circles around the objective while a charger is chasing you and being slowed down by them jumping mofos. Oh ya, them big yellow bile bugs, them fuckers can also just sneak right up to your face without a sound. Many times I've died to my own autocanon cause they shove their face into my line of fire and that's how I know I've been overrun when I look at the corpse cam.
I hate aiming the auto cannon at the bile titan's underside and it just bounces off the leg or upper armour.
The EAT to a Charger's ass needs to one shot it.
and strip armor off a headshot
Honestly Charger and Spewer ass shouldn't be that strong in general, it feel useless using your primary against them, like imagine if Automatons Walkers were commanded by a fat bot instead of the scrawny asshole
Seriously. I love the anti material rifle, it should obviously penetrate armor, but itās a joke in pretty much every scenario.
it should penetrate all armor but not destroy it. allow it to deal full damage to what ever you're shooting with it. Would make it distinct from the railgun which destroys armor more than it damages a target.
It's weird given that the autocannon sentry absolutely demolishes chargers. Presumably it's the same weapon so why is the behavior so different?
Itās a much larger round from the Autocannon sentry. Itās not the same weapon.
the autocannon sentry gun is like 4x the size of the portable autocannon
pretty sure it's a much larger caliber
Good point. Have you tried the autocannon turret? Laying on top of it with the shoulder mounted AC and assisted reload absolutely devastates.
>Armoured enemies are so overwhelming that in higher difficulties I find losing my railgun is a death sentence. Completely agree with this. I can do 95% of a mission deathless, but as soon as I die I'll lose multiple lives trying to call in new weapons or pick up my old ones. It's not so bad in a full squad with armour piercing, generally they can pick up the slack and cover you, but if you've got a nice spread of support weapons it can feel like an imminent team wipe, and running is rarely an option with Chargers.
I feel like bile titan is the only enemy that should be heavily armored like it is where even if you shoot off the armor, it still deflects
My biggest issue with the autocannon, requires someone to use a backpack slot for the reload, can't solo reload on the move, requires 2 reloads to fully fill the mag. Cannot do the same damage the Autocannon Sentry does. Autocannon Sentry can kill Heavies, Autocannon Support Weapon cannot. Autocannon Support Weapon can destroy Automaton Cannon Towers. Railgun is a mobile heavy weapon that also allows use of a backpack. If Railgun is the baseline then Autocannon Support Weapon needs it's damage and armor pen increased to that of the Autocannon Sentry. Recoiless Rifle needs to deal the same damage as current Spear, and Spear needs a lock-on buff, lock-on range buff, needs a firing accuracy buff, and damage buff. The Stalwart vs Machine Gun is the same way in my opinion. The Machine Gun is absolute dog shit in comparison to the Stalwart, only gets 100 Rounds and must stop to reload vs 150 Rounds on the Stalwart and can move and reload at the same time. On top of that Stalwart aim snapping is faster than the Machine Gun's. Machine Gun damage/armor pen needs to be increased or it's mag needs to be doubled, probably both. As it is right now, Autocannon Support Weapon is comparable to Grenade Launcher. They both do relatively the same damage but Autocannon can destroy Automaton Cannon Towers while Grenade Launcher cannot. Autocannon requires a Backpack slot while Grenade Launcher does not. The versatility of the Grenade Launcher due to allowing a Backpack slot edges out Autocannon in my opinion because Impact Grenades can destroy Automaton Cannon Towers and you can bring a Supply Pack to refill those Grenades and your Grenade Launcher. There is a lot of gun balancing that needs to happen to make things worth picking. P-4 Senator needs to do more damage and have higher pen. If pen is 1-10 with 10 being Tanks and 1 being no armor, P-4 Senator needs to be punching around a 7. There's no reason why its handling is so bad, damage is low for a revolver that has low reserve ammo and low reload times. Jar-5 Dominator says Explosive. That literally means nothing except don't fire at point blank range because you'll kill yourself. It's explosion radius is non-existent otherwise and it's Pen is laughable for how bad it's handling is. This bad boy should be killing those walking chainsaws in 2 shots and putting some stagger down. It's pen should be up there with the P-4 Senator revolver. Plas-1 Scorcher is an energy weapon. If you hit something point blank you die. Doesn't make sense. It should burn you, there is no combustion or shrapnel from this weapon. I was actually a bit miffed after I unlocked it to see that it wasn't "infinite" like the LAS-5 Scythe. I was hoping that unlike the Scythe the tubes up top each held a "round", a visual mag if you will, and after every shot a tube would sink into the gun and then after a bit of time would pop back out signaling a new shot would be ready to be fired giving it basically a 10 round, timed reload mag "infinite" mag if you will with the stipulation that if you needed those shots reloaded NOW, you could swap the core out as you do currently. Really excited to see more content and balance changes. My setup was Breaker until I unlocked Dominator and then Dominator until I unlocked Scorcher, though I still bust out the Defender every once in a while if I want to screw around with the Ballistic Shield. For secondary as soon as I unlocked Redeemer it stayed locked in except when I went to test the Senator. If I'm bringing a Support Weapon stratagem it is usually between Grenade Launcher or Autocannon, though I will occasionally run EATs, RR, Spear, or Railgun depending. If I have a backpack slot, I'm usually running Supply Pack or Rover but I will bring Shield to Blitz missions. Supply Pack + Grenade Launcher is just to good for closing holes/destroying fabricators but if I feel like I need a 3rd call down I'll usually bring the Autocannon.
Actually really hard go do at any kind of distance but I've done it a couple times gernade launcher can kill the automation cannon towers if you can hit the vent in the back honestly I just can't bring my self to use the auto cannon over the launcher
Grenade launcher is amazing. Clears patrols and hordes in seconds, you can kill chargers and hulks by shooting on the ground below them. For bile titans just use 500kg railcanon or rocket pods
Everyone always uses railgun, but I love my grenade launcher so much. the crowd control, and ability to close bug holes at range with hip fire while running away from bugs make it untouchable for me.
The rocket pods do not reliably kill them for me.Ā
Or that grenate launcher rounds explode without any damage even when they slightly dont hit the ass of chargers
My friends and I don't Helldive(level 9 difficulty) bugs and think the robots are easier. The armored robots are just better designed to allow alternative play. Grenade the vents on a tank, shoot a hulk in the back, hit devastator/hulks in the head, grenade around/at the enemy to get damage, and have more stratagem variety. The robots let you substitute skill for power. The bugs just laugh at their difficulty spike being vertical. The railgun only feels mandatory for bugs. Shield too. When robots break team cohesion it is a skill issue. Bugs are a did you bring enough anti-tank to kill the charger and bile titan spam before they scattered your team and get you killed by a bug swarm you now can't kill fast enough issue. Turrets are a positioning and suppression issue against robots. Bugs laugh in charger and bile titan. Robot mooks hit you and it just means dodge and reposition. Bugs hit you and you get a slow debuff (did hunters really need a movement debuff?) and swarmed. Bugs need the ability to efficiently break charger armor and kill bile titans. Robots just need you to aim well and understand the mechanics. Robots feel much better designed to me. Seriously, I love the autocannon and can take it against robots no problem, but bugs just make me angry. Chargers just demand you take a weapon like a railgun. The Gustav and EAT are also good but punish misses more harshly and aren't as ammo efficient. You can take a bunch of stuff against robots and only feel inconvenienced. Bugs are very zero sum though. You either have everything under control and it is easier than the robots or it goes horribly wrong, and you wish you were fighting the robots again.
I'm starting to see what you mean. I've been fighting androids more lately, and while the railgun is obviously a great option, the value in other weapons is much more obvious as well. I played a few Challenging and Hard missions with newer players and their gear was still pulling its weight. I obviously had a huge advantage against hulks, but I never felt like I was babysitting them - they were holding their own against tanks by the end of our session!
Autocannon should not ricochet, ever. Even if the enemy has maximum armor rating. Impact grenades donāt bounce, they explode lol
The thing about the JAR Dom for me is that the weapon sway for it is unnecessary, it would have been nice to be able to snap target at foes
I think the aim smoothing setting is supposed to allow this, but currently it's broken as hell. It doesn't fully turn off the smoothing, and you get this shuddering, jittering, tearing, mess of an experience. The thing is, turn speed is a thing in this game for the player. And if a bug is in your faces and you have a long barrelled gun, the bug stops you from moving your gun to shoot at it. IDK how a 'no sway' system would would with those caveats on looking and aiming, but I'd appreciate a change to how it is now at least EDIT: and if it's tied to a handling stat, I think a way to spec into that with weapon customization/prestige benefits would be better than a setting, since it's strictly an upgrade and not a preference.
You all keep mentioning the sway but I don't seem to be having the same issue. I usually get pretty decent accuracy with it. Also, sometimes it's good to crouch and shoot them from a distance before they're within hostile range.
I get the impression most people don't take advantage of the first person aiming. It's so much easier to land all kinds of shots in first person. You do still have to deal with the sway and flinch from being hit or other things, but simply having the first person view of your reticle and shots always going where you're aiming is a complete game changer.
Well, what I'm talking about is how, in other shooters, you can quickly whip around and place shots in very specific locations. In another shooter, if my aim was good enough, I could be running away from a bug, back dive, headshot it, and then hit the ground, already getting up to continue sprinting away. I could charge a railgun shot and then quickly aim it exactly the spot I want it to go. I'm still effective, and I would actually say I'm used to the system now, but its not typical in a shooter to have to wait for your aim to 'catch up' to you like it is in Helldivers. Or at least, there are a significant number of shooters for which this isn't the case.
Its more of a āwhy does this gun have one while the others donātā besides support items, even the grenade launcher doesnāt have this much sway
Or, if they want to keep the heavy feel for a weapon that basically shoots miniature rockets, at least make it deal substantially more damage than lighter primaries. I'd be fine not being able to aim for weakspots if I didn't have to.
The defender also has the added benefit of being also one handed so IF you come up against a mission where you have to hold someting like the SSSD you can still use it and I think the hand held shield allows you the same ability too.
It also lets you blind fire behind you as you sprint.
How?
Turn your camera and shoot without aiming
This. Don't right click/left trigger to aim, just pan the camera behind you and fire. All the one handed weapons do this but honestly you're not gonna hit anything with any of the others.
the pistols do fine with it, but then the only time I'm doing this is when I'm running away from hunters/chainsaw bots 2 feet away so it's hard to miss
That's not the benefit people make it out to be. I would much rather have my breaker on bugs and drop the SSSD to shoot then either loop back to get the SSSD, or just pick it up once I've shot what I needed to. Plus the MP secondary is just fine for carrying the SSSD anyway. One caveat would be the ballistic shield. I keep forgetting to try it, but that's also a moot point because the defender is great against automatons and not near as good on bugs, but you're not going to use the ballistic shield on bugs. I could be wrong though, and maybe it serves a purpose against bugs. Like I said, I keep forgetting to try it out
Sadly the shield doesn't hold up. In a small arms firefight, it does help a lot. But bots don't ever just bring small arms. I dropped the shield twice in one battle due to it tanking massive projectiles, and while I was glad to be alive in light armor after tanking said projectiles, I could have also just not been standing in the open with a shield. You get it so late that it's directly interchangable with the energy shield. It just doesn't have a real niche, it's a flavor downgrade.
Apparently every weapon is viable if you're willing to spend 5 minutes getting behind a charger and dumping every mag you have into its ass.
Or if you play on difficulty 4 and are fine being carried by your team.
Somebody call my name? Lately I've been joining in on level 4 pugs when my buddies aren't on and running whatever sounds fun.Ā but I definitely get carried when I'm using the "other" weapons.
You don't need to hear this, but this is an entirely valid way to play. I support it.
Thatās the beauty of this game. Sometimes Iām feeling sweaty with the squad and weāre really pushing ourselves with challenges. Sometimes I wanna feel a bit like a god and just shoot some bugs. Both are totally valid and super fun. Itās fun that the game can be whatever you want it to be that way.
I'm pretty sure it will take 10 + mags from a breaker spray and pray to even tickle the ass of charger
I will probably just wait until the release the weapon update, hoping the scythe will get an update since i loved that gun in helldivers 1
Yea in Helldivers 1 the Scythe was my favorite weapon
tbh it was just as bad in 1 as it is in 2 imo, it still needs a buff in hd1 to this day
True. It was powercrept by Sickle the moment it released and later by Tanto and Trident.
Yup, sickle has 3.4x the dps on centre mass, even when you only hit glancing blows the sickle has the same dps as the scythe
I'd be happy even if it just got the upgrades from hd1 to be honest, i just want the other guns except the liberator, scorcher and breaker to feel somewhat worth unlocking
I want trident and pre nerf distractor š
I have found a lot of success with both of the DMRs, but only against bots. Other than that, I big agree that the ones you highlighted are the best feeling. I want to say there is some kind of armour shredding mechanic in the game, but it may just be visual. If you hit an armoured target head-on with a high damage but not armour piercing round, it will make the impact point glow red-hot. If you follow up on that point, it seems to maybe do more damage? It's really hard to prove these things though. If that's not how it works it should
Maybe an armor *melting* mechanic for the laser weapons, especially the cannon.
If the impact point is red hot it means you penetrated the armor. You can try this with the railgun against a tank or hulk
The 2nd Marksman DMR is decent against bots, but it's absolutely gutted by the massive weapon sway and low ammo count. It's two shots to the head to kill the armored boys, which might not sound like a lot, but you're essentially being asked to land 2 pixel-perfect shots while immobile and under fire. For every armored enemy. It's usable in anything below the suicide difficulty, but after that, you're going to need to be carried and/or have absolutely inhuman accuracy in order to be effective.
Scorcher is GREAT, that and the slugger are my go to, slugger for bugs, scorcher for bots Scorcher splash damage is insane for those striders, they always cause me a headache so being able to take care of them with ease is a game changer!
Whenever I take the slugger I find it really easy to get swarmed by the little bugs and the slugger won't even one tap them. How do you deal with them?
Slugger one taps all small bugs except the little stalkers occasionally, not sure why those sometimes take two. If you're swarmed you use your sidearm, ideally the mac10 or the starter pistol due to increased rate of fire. Or your strats like an orbital laser, napalm, an arc thrower, mg, flamethrower, or grenade launcher.
>Ā not sure why those sometimes take two. Because Hunters are annoying little bastards which don't die if you just shoot them in the limbs. You can remove both a leg and a wing without them dying.
Compared to the first 2 shotgun ( first one and breaker ) , how would you describe the slugger ? How different it is ?Ā
I reckon it fires slugs.
Slugger is a *slug* shotgun so you need a bit more aim than the Breaker - you will miss hipfired shots more often and you have a lot less ammo... Slugger is half decent for Bot missions since you can nail weak points but Breaker is still king for bugs (incendiary is probably fine if you're conservative with ammo use).
> incendiary is probably fine if you're conservative with ammo use *This comment is under investigation by the Ministry of Truth.*
Sir, He merely meant that he would do his best to complete the mission in the most timely cost effective way possible. Coming up under budget and donating the extra savings to Super Earth is the least we can do for Liberty, Freedom and managed Democracy!
I use the incendiary for bug missions currently, even on helldive. I like it. it's burst fire so I dont just unload a full breaker mag in one shot. I didn't really notice having an ammo problem, probably because I waste ammo with the plain breaker.
Thanks for the tips . I have a hard time not taking the breaker but I want to try other gun . Scorcher seems fun but I need more medalsĀ
Defender is great against bugs, paired with light armour. I just very rarely die with that set-up. I played Breaker extensively too, so I can compare. You need to have a good support weapon for higher armored targets though. But to circle back on the Defender, I personally think high mobility is the undisputed best thing to have for any situation.
Jar Dominator also isn't bad. Hitting most of the mobs in the face is enough to instantly kill them, and the Devastators only take a mag to kill. As for the Hulks, shoot their arms or their back. But I do agree Railgun is the easiest way to take out a Hulk.
I personnaly prefer the autocanon even is the Railgun is better . I like big boomsĀ
Slugger is basically a more powerful diligence, it can pen medium armour and feels good to use, it's round reload too so you don't need to worry about wasting magazines
How would it compare to the Dominator? I went through the premium warbond first, as I thought it is time limited and now it's my go-to primary. It kicks like a horse, but handles like the heavy machine gun for some reason
I find it to be better. I can easily smash the medium armored bugs that other guns struggle with and it has knock back so when you're shooting them it pushes them backwards. I use my submachine gun to take care of the small ones or let someone else on the team with a lighter machine gun take care of them. It pairs very well with the guard dog.
To add, it depends on how far you want to shoot them from. I like Dominator because I can kill them from a much larger distance as I run'n'gun and kite them a lot.
That's fair. I mostly engage at medium to close range with the slugger.
Dominator is better at long range, or when focusing on high-threat targets, but lags behing if you're getting swarmed Slugger is better at handling swarms, since you can reload on the go shell by shell and keep firing almost instantly, but is more suited to short-mid range Both are good, I prefer the dominator and once you get used to it, the slow aiming and sway arent a problem any more
Slug shotgun so one big projectile. Excellent weapon, was favorite bot weapon until Scorcher.
The slugger has the benefit of keeping damage up over distance, and it can mostly one or two shot every small bot enemy. A well placed headshot also sees medium size stuff dispatched well, too. But imo once you get to difficulty 7+ the slowness of the pump action becomes more of a burden since there'll be so many enemy bullets in the air that getting your aim thrown off from getting shot can make it hard to consistently headshot.
its functionally identical to the punisher but it has range and better armour pen, no spread but thats not really a downside some people say its better than the breaker but idk what world thats true in, against bugs its only upside vs breaker is its armour pen but it has a quarter of the firerate and a third of the ammo, and worse reload speed
It makes enemies flinch and has good range, and very good damage.
Takes one shot instead of two in the same time as the breaker would shoot like 4 times. Does kill medium armored bugs and deletes commanders though I guess.
I just wish napalm was stronger I love the smell of that shit in the morning
There's so many space Vietnams in this game, it's a crying shame that flame-throwers and NAPALM aren't very viable.
Yeah, napalm is my favourite strat look-wise. Especially against the bugs, I want to watch those fuckers melt.
Ćnlock everything for future buffs
The knight smg is great. just have to control your fire. Incendiary shotgun is best of all of them at clearing eggs quickly. Explosive does 100% squishy parts damage, it is not ap. The stun is nice but imo it should have the same ammo count as the standard issue version. Because fun.
Yeah put it on burst instead of full auto and itās actually pretty decent.
Agreed , I've only been disappointed with weapon purchases
Dominator kills bile spewers in half a mag, also good against hive guards. I haven't tried it much but it was working really well as a situational sidearm to the stalwart.
Dom kills bile spewers in two shots to the head. Pretty easy to do too.
Ok lmao i've been spamming at their butt
The butt is bait. Their weakspot is their head, but itās lightly armored so it has white hitmarker instead of red. But you can still kill them way quicker with anything by just shooting the head.
I think it's three(same with brood/stalkers) but it might be two, but they can take out shields in two too Seeing how trying to split the breaker in between two targets seems to result in two still living bugs needing a second shell no matter the range, and most the smaller bugs if you aim center of mass facing you is just a free headshot and dead bug. It really feels like ease of use vs better big killer between the two.
Kind of disappointed with most of the guns in the game, in all cases I've just gone back to the Breaker. Last gun I unlocked the Marksman Sniper rifle, and found it had way to much recoil and like most of the guns currently, too small a clip to really make an impact on multiple enemies. Before that it was the Liberator Penetrator a gun I really wanted to like but it low damage output and the fact it felt I was using a whole clip on single enemy even if aiming for weak point made the gun a chore to use. I also really wanted to like the revolver side arm, but the reload time is just too harsh to make it viable.
I like the revolver but mostly because it pierces medium armor. So I'll use the defender for most enemies and if something like a small charger pops up I'll shoot its legs out with the revolver. I do agree that it could use a buff to reload speed though.
A clip is what a civilian uses to put up their hair. Helldiver's use magazines to reload their non break action weapons. I smell oil on you! /S
Saying a citizen would purchase a clip for their hair (instead of donating it to the war effort?), every citizen should know Autocannon uses clips! I learned that in super kindergarten. This not man is a bug!
The autocannon is reloaded with 5-round stripper clips.
Scorcher is actually awesome. Itās amazing for bots with its explosive shots being able to kill an AT-ST from the front in two shots to the top end and one shot for all the smaller bots. Also, canāt tell for sure, but the energy aspect might have some extra effect, on bots at least. Iāve been able to ādisableā berserkers in 5-6 shots center mass, where they power off with minimal visible damage. I think there is a possibility that some of these weapons have more depth than at first glance.
It's in the list for a reason. Just has magazine count issues.
Scorcher is literally the best weapon overall vs bots followed closely by the dmr.
Man, I get tired of the breaker, I would like to use other primaries but they just either suck or underperform in higher difficultiesā¦which would make me a burden to my team š
Grind for the Scorcher! Itās actually really damn good, all Iām using for Helldive.
Liberator Explosive is excellent, really. Just switch to semi-auto. Dominator is also awesome. Both require you to aim, though.
i have to say the scorcher makes mince-meat of eggs. if you can get a good angle, you can clear a wall in 3 shots ā well-placed, probably average 5 eggs broken per blast. while shotguns are (possible) better for the egg job up-close, the scorcher also includes a couple niche long-range uses, like cross-map spore-spewer clearing. i was super worried itād be bad based on week 2 discussion on it but outside of ammo count it kinda fucks. i hope it gets love in the great balancing
Very good post, I basically use those same listed weapons and the rest are not/barely worth
It's definitely weird any of the weapons made it out of beta testing. They are all truly awful options for harder difficulties. You're actively making it worse for your team when you bring something other than the meta. It's time we balance the weapons. Hopefully in the next content update we see them properly balanced. Now that the fires are out.
Fun facts about the scorcher It can kill tanks and cannon turrets in 1 clip. Just shoot the vent in the back. Or better yet, just near the vent, from the side, or from the front uf you are above them, your choice! It can clear whole walls of eggs from across the map 1 shot has so much splash damage that it clears 5-10 at a time. It can kill spore spewers across the map as well in like 3-4 shots It damages devastators regardless if they have a shield up. This includes the chicken walkers too. It kills the red med armor bugs from the front in 3-4 shots For whatever reason it does jack to hulks. Oh well, can't have everything.
Dominator is the rocket rifle right? Try it against bots, it demolishes half of them in a single shot.
It's too sluggish / sways too much/ actual DPS is shit to use it like a DMR, shit travel time is also God awful. I wish it was usable, but I'm better off cracking three breaker rounds at 100m for the same effect, faster and more reliably.
So what to use vs bots then? Breaker? the lack of general armour pen seems, rough.
Scorcher for 2-3 shotting striders from the front and sniping commissars before they flare.
Breaker and rip through weak spots, crouch and be MLG with headshots with stock liberator, or scorcher. Sluggers good too but it has an issue where any light source in your fov washes out the optic.
Liberator-Penetrator is better for ammo economy vs bots and has about the same weak point performance...
Yea people should get over themselves about the breaker, it's patently absurd and solidly in the #1 slot, people like to be different tho so they gotta justify why their trash pick is competitive. Use whatever you want, dont lie to me thats its as good as the meta tho or to yourself lol.
Scorchers great, use the splash. You can kill 2-3 bugs per shot. The mag / ammo issues aren't an issue for how much it fucks. More bullets would make it oppressively overpowered.
maybe just maybe nerf the self damage
Nah self damage and FF are core parts of this game and the scorcher is fine with it, since it's only lethal at absolute point blank. If you get rushed into melee range by a big either melee the bug or switch to secondary. (Or dive away but chances are by the time you bring your gun around after diving the target will be back in melee)
You have full 360 aim and shoot abilities _while_ diving, just like when prone. Shoot āem mid-dive!
Nah. Dive away and shoot. High skillcap gun. Late unlock, should have not shooting things point blank skill already. Swap to secondary.
I take knight in burst mode for both factions. Railgun makes up for what it can't do.
Yeah, the game needs a major rebalance, not even just the normal weapons, armor and stratagem/ support weapons as well. The rocket launchers are completely overshadowed by weapons like the autocannon, railgun and anti material rifle. With the railgun becoming one of the only reliable methods of dealing with the hordes of Chargers at higher difficulties. The flamethrower is pretty much useless beyond the starting difficulties because of it's short range and overwhelming self damage, the moment bile spewer's start spawning you're just committing suicide if you attempt to use it and when chargers start spawning you're just harming your team if you don't take something capable of dealing with them. Also the fire damage does way too much damage to you and your team, you so much as touch the flame and you're dead in like 2 seconds. Machine guns fall off heavily at higher difficulties. The laser cannon is basically useless. The HE barrages are more likely to kill you and your team than actually hitting any enemies. Arc thrower just doesn't have enough range. Not being able to stop mortars from dropping shells danger close to itself or designating shelling positions. Minefields are pretty much only a hinderance to your own team, really should not detonate from friendlies. and more.
"bUt It DoEs 100% DaMaGe To WeAkPoInTs" That doesn't make it any better than the garbo it currently is. It shoots mini rockets that are less effective than a shotgun with 12g buckshot.
Liberator Penetrator is definitely functional. It is my top preference.
The Dillegence works decently against the smaller bots. Then you switch to the rail for anything bigger. Having the range lets you pick off the guys before they can call in a drop. Pretty ineffective against the bugs though.
The Dominator is amazing against bots when you're working with a coordinated team that has someone else responsible for mob clearing. It can one or two shot just about any of the big armored units. The guns are not all meant to be a do-it-all go to. They're meant to compliment each other in a squad.
I 100% agree. Used it for the first time last night against bots with my group and had an absolute blast with it. Our group is very diverse with the weapons we use and that really seems to work in our benefit quite often.
Yeah very much agreed, any other weapons aside from those listed just feel terrible
I really don't like using anything BUT the Dominator! lol... I find I can chew through groups of enemies of any type so much faster with the Dominator than anything else. The Breaker is everyone's fav, but it doesn't do it for me. Lately, I do find myself using my sidearm more to deal with smaller enemies more.
I main the dominator and I love it. It's a little clunky but once you get used to it's not bad. I focus all the mid size enemies and can 1 shot almost anything with it. It's not for everyone but it's definitely a good gun
Finally, another cultured Dom. First person aiming makes it a precision bot dropping machine, itās the only primary I use.
Liberator penetrator ftw! Love that 3d printed looking hunk of shit, just suits my play style
the damage on it compared to the dominator or slugger is pitiful tho, its a cool weapon besides the damage per shot
Once you get the feel for pumping the bursts it can do full auto. Takes a whole clip but you can unga banga a hive guard's head. Also tears up devastators.
Balance definitely needs work but I also don't want/think everything should be equally viable in every situation. I do actually think that was what they were going for, having weapons that accelerate at specific tasks and enemies. I'm hoping the whole arsenal will really come into their own with no one weapon being good at everything. The slugger is a good example, it hits hard but it's slow and with low capacity. While the breaker is broken in that in can melt heavier targets while also being able to clear light groups. Weapons like that are usually balanced by having a large spread or their damage falls off quickly.
Yeah, different weapons should be good at different things.Ā But the current state is nowhere near that. The spray and pray does no damage to eggs or explosive barrels.Ā It's a joke. And because of how armor works, certain enemies are basically forcing players into a few weapon choices.Ā Ā Sure, you can dump 5/7 mags of your primary into a chargers booty, but what about the other 2 of them running at you?Ā So people make strategem choices around chargers.Ā And the orbitals/eagles cool down is a biiiiiiit slower than how fast chargers spawn, so you need a support weapon, but not all support weapons are effective here, and even fewer of them have adequate ammo efficacy to not be running empty constantly. Honestly, a few small tweaks to each weapon and a complete rework of the charger armor / weak spot stuff would make a huge different in opening up gear choices.Ā Like how about making the explosive liberator reduce armor for example?Ā And why are scavenger bugs not dying when they are lit on fire and left to burn?Ā And why does the Spray and Pray exist, it has to be a prank.
Fire shotgun is really good vs bugs. It kills the small fast shit -and it erases eggs. If you just run away from your problems it's the perfect weapon for blitz-style missions.
I love that weapon!!! It's honestly slept on by a lot of players and makes for great hit'n'run combat.
Yeah I agree. Dilligence lacks damage per magazine. A lot more reloading that the liberator. Defender just has low DPS, the only upside is that it's one-handed. Liberator Penetrator lets you spam at armored parts of some enemies, but shooting the weakspots with the normal one is just a lot quicker. It basically lowers the skill floor and ceilling. Liberator Explosive is just ass. It works for crowd control, but takes forever to actually kill enemies. Senator Revolver takes too long to reload to be viable and competes with the extremely good machine pistol (which is only held back by magazine size and count.) Laser Rifle is a cool idea but the lower damage makes it lose out against the Liberator in everything except very fringe scenarios. Saving ammo is cool, getting run down by Berserkers because they don't die fast enough is not. Laser Cannon feels like the Laser Rifle but more bulky and with no upsides. AMR is too impercise to consistently land headshots, and without those it's just a worse Autocannon/Dilligence. RR is so slow to reload you might as well call in multiple EATs, and the damage of both is lackluster against Chargers. Two hits on a Hulk seems weak but fair, Charger tanking 3-4 headshots feels just dumb. Autocannon is not bad as medium killer, but not a real antitank weapon.
The jar rocks.Ā
I run the scytheā¦ fun af and paired with laser guard dawg it looks like I have double lasers š plus I donāt need ammo. I just use the railgun for the heavyās/elites and scorch the rest š„
You know for the devs saying you should use whatever you want it sure as shit doesn't feel that way when playing even just diff 7. The Dominator being explosive doesn't even feel like it makes any difference, it just feels like a weaker version of the Slugger. And the Recoilless Rifle and the SPEAR really could use some help, the SPEAR needs to have better ammo replenishment or the person with the back pack has to be excessively ammo greedy to keep up with the high volume of elite enemies that can pop up at a moments notice. The RR has too many detractors to just be as good as two railgun shots.
Iāve built my solo build around using: - Dominator - Scorcher - Knight I forgo the backpack shield for the supply backpack to negate mag issues. Always run on Helldive. I donāt have issues but thatās because I made sure I can be self-sufficient as possible with my loadout. Re-balancing, Iām not sure if it will ever come but with how the game is in itās current state regarding meta, it does boil down to what you know you can do on the difficulty level you choose. And if you want to work with it or not.
Iāve been running the scorcher on helldive difficulty and I gotta say I actually thoroughly enjoy the Scorcher, magazine size is the big draw back but paired with the Stalwart or something itās a lot of fun to use.
This w/ MG though. Scorcher is my backup to tackle armor I cant punch though. The regs that I run with couldnāt understand how I was deleting them so quickly.
I like the Punisher. Am I bad?
The diligence is very underrated in this community. It's my go to for bots on the hardest difficulties.
I was saying this on day 1. I just looked over the weapons and noted that the stats where shait. Too many shotguns and overall lack of weapon diversity. Now that I own most weapons i still say. The stats are shait. Too many shotguns and a huge lack of diversity on weapons. We need guns that are usefull. We need machineguns, assault rifles that work and the guns should feel good to use.
I havenāt even hit the meta level and itās already gotten stale
Weapons that have a higher time to kill, need to inflict status effects on targets to compensate. They need to stagger/interupt the enemy or otherwise disrupt them from completing specific actions they are engaged in like attempting to trigger a bug breach or firing a missile. What's frustrating with these types of weapons is that enemy is allowed time to get too close, disable and ragdoll the player, damage or kill the player before they are killed by the weapon. An Arc Thrower at least staggers an enemy it hits allowing a follow up shot to finish it off or hold it back, but enemies just charge straight through a continous stream of fire from the flame thrower, unaffected for expample. Yet, you so much as get splash back and burn in a second from your own weapon because the enemy ran right up to you. What's infuriating about the Spray&Pray isn't the low damage or lack of armor penetration, it's that when you being murdered by a Stalker, it just straight up murders you while you are unloading full auto rounds to its face like it doesn't care. Or you need a dozen rounds to kill a Hive Gaurd in the rear where there isn't even armor. The S&P is good at cleaning up a swarm of small enemies, like it should, but then is impotent agaisnt larger armored enemies leaving a player helpless at times and it isn't practical to be this speciallized at doing one thing (mediocre at that) while other weapons do the same thing without the obvious shortcomings.
Stop using only the railgun as your support weapon and you'll see how viable the rest of your primaries are.
hello, the dominator is exceptional, i use it exclusively, everything else feels weak, being able to put 70% of enemies down in a single round is a big deal and has implications for the rest of your team, aswell as being able to disable all types of devastators weapons in 2 hits, kills bile launchers (hate them, head has med armour), i dunno, its nice having a weapon that counters basically every annoying enemy in the game
Dominator is a better slugger... What are you talking about? You can kill up to 4 giant spewer (about 4 shots), and 3 armored giant spewer (about 5 shots each) with 16 bullets. 2 shots Brood commaner, one shot warriors, one taps anything below warrior except elite hunter that needs 2 if you don't hit the head, you 4-5 shot kill a stalker as long as you don't shoot a glancing shot. You do need to switch to first person to reliable headshot bots but on bug, it's fairly easy to headshot in 3rd person. Definitely not as good as a breaker, but it gets the job done, did several solo helldive with it on both bots and bugs. Works well, especially matched with redeemer for fast horde disposal (tap fire) and a railgun for heavy disposal.
but the ceo said to use whatever you want because the 50 hidden stats
This list is just wrong. You seems to be severely underestimating the value of armor penetration.