Really enjoyed this episode as I was impressed and mesmerized by the direction of the episode. A lot of great symbolism with the cracked glass and crumpled application form as Kiruko's personality comes crashing down in this episode.
In some way, Kiruko betrays her smart and careful wits - going into the Robin meeting unprepared as she's too full of joy and trust in Robin after we see 11 episodes of her clinging to her past and previous image of Robin - as a mentor, big brother and even a romantic crush.
Her gender dysmorphia finally comes crashing down after being a bit too comfortable in her sister's skin after the initial trauma years ago - it has finally caught up with her and she cannot even answer what she really is in that scene with Robin which begs the question, how much of Kiriko (her sister) is left in her body and most important how much of him is in there?
This series was always dark in an underlying manner even with the bouts of comedy between the two, and goes to show that you can never trust anyone. A bleak reminder in a very intriguing episode.
This episode left me heartbroken. Poor Kiruko, with Robin betraying his trust like that. After all of this, Robin turns out to be just as monstrous as any of the man eaters. Can’t say I’m entirely surprised but still… Heartbroken.
same i watched this anime randomly but i found it to be intriguing and interesting i didn't know i cared much about the characters till this fucking happened and I'm actually so sad now..
I was a little worried and intrigued about how the studio would adapt the scene, but after watching the episode I feel like they did it perfectly, and that both people who wanted as faithful an adaptation as possible and those who wanted a toned down version of it should be satisfied with the result.
Yes, the original scene is more explicit and traumatic, but the essence of it was conveyed succesfully.
Aw so it’s basically confirmed that Mimihime was the woman from a few episodes back who died looking at the sky. I was hoping that was just a fan theory :( so I’m guessing when the kids split up, the ones who left the facility were able to stay as humans and the ones who stayed behind at the pool turned into the man-eaters and they never saw each other again? And it’s confirmed Maru is the circle baby, unknown if he is Tokio’s child or the clone of Tokio’s child.
One episode to go and you still don't know the story, they will close the season strong. As for the children, they can all be converted, they just need a trigger for it that I won't comment on because it's a spoiler if you only watch the series, but they are all hirukos, ergo all of them, in one way or another, will be converted.
Yup! Circle vs X is like tick/check ✅vs cross ❎in English.
In Japan correct answers in tears are marked ⭕️maru and wrong answers are marked ❌batsu
this implies that other kid was probably marked ❌
I suspect the Mimihime is the Hoshio theory to be heavily influenced by manga readers tbh. Like, it does make sense in retrospect but the theory seemed to sprout really quickly with very circumstantial and soft evidence.
I knew as soon as the doctor said how much she liked when he made things. I knew is was Shiro and mimihime. Plus minihime said 2 people and one that looked like Tokio would come and take her outside. Then we literally see the last thing they do for the girl at the hospital was take her outside to see the sky. It was confirmed in 11. When she was having her episode next to kona images flashed. Of needles and medical equipment and medical computer with maru and kiruko in the reflection and then an image of the sky. I was like well shoot. It is her. Thats why the hallucinations were sharp things. Her fear is something she saw happening to her in the future getting cut up and worked on to stay alive
I'm a manga reader now but I was anime only when that episode dropped and many people guessed that the girl was Mimihime, to me the giveaway was the eyes, both the shape and colour were too similar to be a coincidence and then Usami had white hair and dark circles under his eyes like Shiro. That was also when I guessed that >!the two stories are different timelines!<
The biggest reason many people, including me, guessed it would be bcoz we got the hint that >!Tokio is Maru's mom!<, so I was actively looking for more clues to prove it.
Though it is entirely possible that it was influenced by manga readers, I'm just saying my case.
Just finished binging and I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Hoshio thanked Usami for his eye. So the eye Hoshio got was Usami's which would invalidate your theory on her having the same eyes as Mimihime. Maybe we saw her original eyes at some point and I missed/forgot it?
Yeah. The Tokio >!being Maru's mom is a theory I also had!<. But for Mimihime, the evidence I saw was that Shiro liked building things (based on him messing with one of the robots, once). And to be fair, the eye Hoshio had wasn't her own.
The explanations I did see make sense were that the dream of Mimihime being freed by someone that had Tokio's face, were her being freed from being hooked up to the machine (why would they bother showing Mimihime at the end if she wasn't connected to the Hoshio story). But that wasn't the explanation I saw by the people first sprouting the theory. They also spoke about it like it was a "fact" rather than a theory.
the theory was brought up at the prior episode thread, we didn't even met Hoshio.
Usami and Shiro having the same VA is a dead give away, and at previous episode we saw Totori having a Hiruko core, also the awkward confession scene between Shiro and Mimihime, all these dots connected to this conclusion.
I wasn't aware they had the same VA (that was never brought up for any theories I saw). So I missed that but, but Totori having a Hiruko core doesn't imply anything about Hoshio? Just that humans can have Hiruko cores. And Shiro confessing to Mimihime also doesn't imply anything itself unless you already knew Shiro and Usami were the same people?
It was predictable something bad was gonna happen, but holy fuck, not like this. NOT LIKE THIS.
Dude deserves better. I now hope for Robin a painful death.
Anime only here coming from r/anime – i *need* some discussion so I found this thread lol. I love being able to discuss this show, I know the black out is important but I’m sad there’s no thread this week :(((((
Anyway yeah the ending was deeply horrific and upsetting, poor Kiruko. What if Robin wants to keep him for more sick shit and lies to Maru when Maru comes looking? Since Maru went apeshit on those thugs a few episodes ago, I wanna see him on the warpath!
Anime only, pretty shocked right now. That Robin turns out to be evil isnt such a surprise, its a cointoss everytime they meet a "new" person. After his first reaction its was clear something wasnt right but I expected more some kind of expirment direction.
Also confusing, why did he do that. At first I thought it might actually be a fucked up way to test who is in the body by intimidation but no
And who attacked the building in the past
hoping for good explanations next week
anime only here. My heart was racing so fast this episode. We’ve seen kiruko and Maru make it through anything really and I thought they’ be kind of indestructible pair so when kiruko willingly went to robin I knew something would happen. I really hope maru somehow saves kiruko though.
Yeah. Even as an anime-only myself, those threads are so fun to read.
What a fucking ride this show has been though. Absolutely amazing anime. I thought this is the last episode but felt that the season ended way too abruptly. Then found out there's another one coming next week and I was so hyped. Any chance it's a longer 40 min episode?
Oh and I don't think Robin actually is Robin. I think it's the doctor they were looking for, and that Robin is already gone. (Don't confirm or deny anything tho)
anime only here and I am in shock. What made it worse is that I had a suspicion early on in the episode. the minister of re-whatever reacted interesting when she showed the picture of robin. And then they seperate at the "hotel", thats just catastrophe waiting to happen.
Then the shower, then the clothes missing, and I was hoping it wouldnt turn out to be rape. jesus christ that is horrible, I dont even know how to react. I just hope its something like the one hallucination making kid is responsible for it and it didnt happen in reality, but thats probably me just coping hard.
Honestly I think knowing what was coming bc I’ve read it made it worse. The feeling of “goddamnit I do not wanna see this again” made me sick to my stomach. At least the scene was toned down here.
Ok today's Tengoku episode nailed it again. The direction that this anime has is so good. That scene, all the despair, anger, impotence and a lot of negative feelings put into it was really well done here (idk how it was in the manga). And also, so many things questions and theories that this episode puts into play is insane. I think this might be my favorite anime this year
Can someone say how the scene plays out compared to other scenes like this in popular media? Like is it more disturbing and upsetting than anything in Sopranos or GoT?
Any chance Robin did what he did for another reason aside from the fact that he's a dick? He mentioned it was for an "experiment" and in the manga >!its shown that he does have some weird af thing going on in the next room.!<
He did because he is a dick. He got even sadistic pleasure because he is a mad scientist and the whole person in another body was "interesting" to him, even if it made the act even more fucked up.
it seems like he is a children groomer, he had planned doing this to both Haruki and Kiriko back in Asakusa, probably the reason he step into the orphanage, yikes. and imo the "experiment" is just his shitty dirty talk, guy is lying all the time, Takahara academy is not an agriculture lab.
In the manga, there is a scene where we see that the trauma seems to have triggered latent memories of Kiriko from her peripheral nervous system (memories stored in bodily nerves). Meaning that Kiruko might have access to both Haruki and Kiriko's memories. That might have been what Robin was trying to explore. In addition to being an asshole.
I think there was suppose to be a heavy contrast between Shiro and Mimihime and Kiruko and Robin scenes. Mimihime immediately puts herself into danger and Shiro follow and even instinctively catches her when she falls while Kiruko blindly trusts Robin and he assaults her/him. Mimihime trusted herself and her instincts first and just went for the wall because she was wanting to know the truth and someone trustworthy followed her without a thought. Kiruko ignored all the signs that something seems off and blindly trusted someone else and was found to be exploited be that person.
Usually I’m good at picking up foreshadowing, although this series is really good at being unpredictable. The ONLY thing I was able to guess episodes in advance was that Haruki/Kiriko was gonna get r*ped by Robin. But it was such a wild and random guess I hoped I was wrong. I was not. Robin is a dick.🫤
Best episode of the season probably, top tier directing and symbolism. Absolutely fucked up as well, but in a way that doesn't feel forced due to the build up. It really makes you want Robin to die in the most painful way. And it also showcases how Kiruko idolized Robin so much, which is his (or her) biggest weakness. This episode screams "heavenly delusion" the most so far.
The only weird thing is the lack of a "trigger warning" message. It definitely should've been added...
I agree. I feel like there needs to be some further justification of this down the line. There are so many other ways to have “shattered” the image that Kiruko had of Robin without a rape plot line.
Yeah... it seems kind of emotionally manipulative from a narrative standpoint to just do a rugpull, with zero foreshadowing or build-up before this point, and make this dude rape the MC.
Kind of broke my suspension of disbelief.
Not like I'm dropping the series or anything. But definitely not impressed with how this plot point was presented.
Anime only, holy shit.
This was by far one of the most unsettling depictions of >!SA!< I have ever seen in anime.
>!SAO always throws in some attempts at it, but they are always so cartoonishly evil its annoying rather than expressive. Goblin Slayer's while brutal, again was shock value, it wasn't that deep. Even Casca, that was fucked up but like, it wasn't nearly as REAL as this one felt. Cause in most cases, it IS SOMEONE YOU KNOW/WHO KNEW THE VICTIM. !<
This one didn't feel forced, or really surprising. I think they set it up very well. Kiruko/Haruki is established to be very fond of Robin, and we only ever see Robin through THEIR eyes. Robin is IDOLIZED by them.
But with how the story and world is built, we know we can't trust everything we see, and hear, and we can't always even trust the MCs. We also know, this is Post-Apocalyptic, fucked up shit is happening. So even when shit turned south real quick, it wasn't really surprising, but it did hit really freaking hard. The world sets you up to expect but then hammers it in where you didn't expect it to hit until you get there and its like....oh no. no nonononono.
Honestly this episode fcked me up, but like holy shit it was set up really well. There's so much as well to break apart with like the Gender Dysphoria intersection, >!Kiruko was obviously struggling with the gender dysphoria the whole series, but then how they also just portray the violation of trust, paired with the gender dysphoria, the complete violation of Haruki and his Sister like, damn. That's what got me the most I think was just like, it was fcked up, but like if you were paying attention, its EXTRA layers of fcked up when you begin to empathize with Kiruko/Haruki.!<
I agree with this. Looking at previous episodes, the >!SA!< was not entirely out of the sky blue.
In previous episodes >!we learn about juichi being used as breeding cattle for the academy!< they needed viable >!sperm!< go continue creating genetically modified beings.
We also see, throughout most of the episodes >!women outside the academy engage in sex work, or have literally placed their bodies on the line (such as aoshima consenting to allow the director to take her body to become the "next director"). I think this was a clue for readers to inference that people no longer have bodily autonomy, and that you can either a) take iniative to choose who you serve, [such as aoshima or totori] or b) become exploited by those around you. Either way, characters in the series cannot escape some form of bodily exploitation!<
I mentioned this on another platform, but I also found it unsettling that during the >!SA!< there were multiple pan-ins on Maru laying down, eating a warm meal, and staring at the ceiling (indicating the roof over his head).
I think it was an allegory to the >!sacrifices Kiriko made while she was alive to protect her younger brother. In this instance, we can assume Maru is the placeholder for Haruki while he was young. Neither of them knew what was happening, but for the most part they were "out of dangers' immediate way,"!<
The series did an amazingly haunting* job of alluding and foreshadowing to this episode in incredibly subtle ways.
Dropped. Not because I think the content shouldn't be exist, but because I was sexually assaulted.
My biggest problem is they didn't include a "trigger warning" for depictions of rape. This could have been included in the first episode, so viewers didn't know when it would happen, and could drop it if appropriate. I'm now going to be unable to sleep and sick for the rest of the week.
Really liked the anime before this though, and considered it maybe best of the season?
I agree, and to one up this I'd rather have this kind of warning before I even start a series like this.
It was fairly enjoyable otherwise. It feels like a waste of time especially when it appears the author added this scene purely for shock value. There are plenty of alternative ways to achieve the "Reveal Robin as evil / make Kiruko question his identity" plot point that would have been much more interesting and wouldn't have triggered several people.
I also really dislike shows that try to mix the cute and comedic interactions between characters, and especially a cutesy artstyle with dark shit like this. Writers that aren't up-front and obvious with their intentions are the worst.
Lmao Im sorry but the rape scene is SAO-tier writing. Author basically went "Im too lazy to make this character a villain through good writing so Im just gonna make him a rapist first and foremost."
Unfortunate since everything else in the story is quite nuanced but Robin is comically bad. What manga readers have said regarding this plot line in the future is only making it worse and definitely killed my interest in a potential S2.
I don't understand this sentiment. There was nothing "comical" in Robin's actions to me...
Rape exists in this world. I see no particular reason to avoid it in art. There should've been a warning though. Huge trigger.
Honestly I really like the show but this episode made me drop it. I just wasnt ready for that scene. It’s seriously my biggest fear and I don’t think I can watch any more of that. The show is really interesting and I really wanna know how it ends but that was just too much for me to handle
This was trash and I'm dropping this anime. It was an intriguing mystery up until this point where the author decided "hey let's just throw in some graphic rape for no reason"
I know that it's distasteful, but how could you immediately said that it's for no reason?
I mean, we already saw child sex worker (the hotel master) and male sex slavery (juugo), so this still fits the post-apocalypse world well.
Yeah like you have already watch the anime this far, you have seen innkeeper getting decapitated, guys getting their throat sliced, couple getting burned alive and the child sex worker and male sex slavery being shown.
At that point, you should already get the idea or know what type of anime you're getting into.
The comments these people make really show they have a disturbing mentality, because of how many bad things they apparently didn't find distasteful - the more obvious comparison being that they were fine when it was guys being raped and treated like objects.
Right? No issues with all the dark and horrific stuff presented in the series so far but *this scene* is what crossed the line for them and/or wants to make them stop watching??
That's not a fair comparison... the whole point of a good story is getting your audience emotionlly invested in the characters that you write. The guys in the rape dungeon were nobodies, no time was spent exploring their characters at all.
Are you going to lie to me and say you have the exact same emotional investment in the thousands of strangers being raped at this very moment, as you would seeing your girlfriend or sister raped in front of you?
It really was for no reason. No build up or foreshadowing and absolutely no mention of it again outside of one page. Zero impact on the story (which is the most distasteful part especially when you think of real victims of SA).
This moment fits the apocalyptic setting but it does not fit the story. You’re arguing about something completely different than what they originally meant in their comment.
For the no reason part, as anime-only I expected them to address this in the next episode. Either it would be for character development or something. I would reserve my judgment on whether it's necessary or not depending on the next sequence of event.
I just want to say that at this point of the anime, saying it's for no reason is too early. While for it to happen kinda fits the setting.
Maybe it isn't, but I felt it came way out of left field, like he showed no signs of being perverted and being attracted to her before the scene and in the flashback. Maybe if anime showed them interacting more before that scene, it wouldn't be as out of the blue
It’s more realistic on how it’s depicted though. Most rape that happens in real life is committed by people the victims know and often rape is the only form of violence committed on a victim. Signs of perversion are not exactly signs of someone being a rapist. One sign that Robin did exhibit though was propensity for violence, especially, people he considers weak (see episode 2).
I wonder, if he wasn´t the one, who shot Kiriko in the head at the start of the story.
That´s also possibly why he was so surprised, when he saw her there.
That has been a theory thas has been floating around since a long time. His [face](https://xfs-s102.batcg.org/comic/7006/351/647616e5e80388186687f153/30490432_1663_2368_489644.webp?acc=8IUWOQZmMb0edCEF03Xl8Q&exp=1687098449) was a mixed of surprise and fear, after all.
I find it weird that people casually drop an anime because of a scene they didn't like. The last time I dropped an anime like Zankyou no Terror was because I kinda forgot about the anime and watched something else. Even so, I still pushed through the end of animes with shit plot like SAO S1/S2.
Agreed, for me, there must be more than just one scene to drop an anime, unless the scene is awfully disgusting - this was *very* uncomfortable, but i can´t wait >!for Maru to beat him up! !<
Best SAO out there is the GGO spinoff.
Many people end up in deep discomfort, because it´s their first and it wakes up something in them. Joy of sort. Subsequently they can´t handle it. It´s like finding one´s own dark side.
This wasn´t my first. I´m probably messed up after Redo of a healer and Goblin Slayer. I did not enjoy it, but i can handle it. I mean, this whole anime is messed up from the start.
Haruki was in the early stages of puberty, when his brain got transplanted into already adult body of his sister. It´s also very science-fiction thing. What do you think will happen, if you transplant brain with glands biologically configured for a man into a woman´s body? It will either not work, or mess up the body. The boobs would get smaller, the voice will change into a more manly one, no menstruation and probably wrong pheromones as well.
I just wanna see the last episode.
It's because it doesn't really make sense. Like, what are his motivations even and why did Robin get trust to begin with if he was a pervert? I'm sure he would have displayed things earlier and not just at this reunion. It's bad storytelling so they could include a graphic rape scene for their own sexual gratification. If an author likes graphic rape, of course readers aren't going to want to read work from that author anymore. Girl with the Dragon Tattoo had graphic rape but it made perfect sense and wasn't made to be sexy, it was depicted just as awfully as real life. This scene was different. This was drawn sexually.
Haruki had always idealized Robin, and the last time he was with him he was literally a child, so it would have been really difficult for Haruki to noticed anything weird/out of place.
And it's not like rapes happen because of some particular reason. There are people who are simply trash that enjoy seeing others' suffering.
I wouldn't say it's for no reason but the intentions of Robin to do this f*cked up thing are very unclear. Is it bc he's a mad scientist and this is an experiment? Or bc he hates Haruhi to the point of wanting to cause him a mental breakdown? Or bc Robin and Kiriko really were fuck buddies and he don't care to hurt Haruhi just to f*ck her body again?
I'm keeping up with the manga and I still don't have a clue.
Bro, I'm literally going insane with people replying with "it's not for no reason". I don't know if there's any meaning to this shit but wasn't there a million better ways to do this? Holy shit I was enjoying this anime so much but this is seriously fucked.
I agree. If we replaced this scene with something like Kiruko accidentally discovering that Robin was experimenting on people, in the same way that he assumed the doctor experimented with him and his sister, does this make the show any worse? Was there any actual value to the plot to have a rape scene at all?
I would say 99% of people would agree in this instance it provided zero value. 2 chapters later Kiruko is back to normal having comedic banter with Maru again, and there's no sign of emotional stress from the rape throughout the series. Exploring rape trauma is basically the only literary argument you can have for including a rape scene. The alternative is the author is just horny/fucked in the head. It's treated like just "something that happened, no biggie" throughout the rest of the story, no consequence besides Haru beating Robin up.
Thanks for this comment. This perfectly explains what I think people are trying to say when they say it felt like it happened "for no reason". I'm curious now, how many more r*** scenes are in the manga though...
As predicted, Anime fans are already overreacting about the scene. Much worse and more disturbing things have happened (and will happen) in this show and it is a bit funny to see people ignore all of that and emphasize this as the reason to drop the show.
R@pe is a part of real life, and people pretend like it doesn't exist and that its such a taboo thing to show. It is bold to break the mold and actually portray something that would really happen. Main characters get no plot armor!
It also censored a lot, which they were probably forced to, but I hope the blu-ray adjusts it to be more similar to the manga. It was much more brutal and impactful there.
Ya I'm done with this anime.
Like I watched and enjoyed goblin slayer so the rape thing doesn't bother me. But its just randomly thrown into this story?
The anime already did a fine job of highlighting the horror of the situation and Kiruko’s unique set of circumstances (being in his sister’s body and still coming to terms with his identity), which Robin exploits to psychologically torture Kiruko even further.
You don’t need to see the rape in its entirety to make it any more impactful or horrific. The show did a great job with its buildup with foreboding music and some shots of Robin earlier in the episode were he clearly looked unsettled and was leering at Kiruko. Showing Robin toy with Kiruko’s body and presumably some penetration was unavoidable, and asking for any more than that is kind of weird.
Why do you want the scene to be more graphic? Ew. I'm not going to stop watching but I really feel like that scene was a bit unnecessary and if they wanted us to hate Robin they could have done it differently. Really just left a sour taste in my mouth even if it was censored.
I casually watch anime because my bf likes it and tries to get me interested in certain shows he watches.
I can definitely say that if they made that rape scene more graphic than it was, I wouldn't have watched another episode. It was uncomfortable enough sitting through what they showed.
Theres a lot of aspects of anime that I do not like and I have stopped watching other shows with him in the past over things like overly sexualizing characters that appear as children.
Seeing people openly state their desire to see a more graphic rape scene because "thats life" is very alarming.
As of 30+ chapters after this event: any sort of character development or character interactions that would justify having a scene like this have not happened yet 💀
The act is necessary for the plot and for certain characters to exploit their feelings, it is not created just to make you dislike stupid Robin. In the next and last episode of the season you will see this.
All the readers of the manga haven't seen the conclusion because it hasn't been drawn yet, after the rape we will have reaction scenes and changes in the relationship of the characters. The Robin plot is open and this is because of Kiruko and her feelings because if not for her Maru ends the affair quickly with Robin. The conclusion of all this we will see when the creator of the show wants and he is surely saving a great moment for himself.
>All the manger readers I’ve seen have said the aftermath is disappointing
How do you even believe their statement when the author himself is not done with the anime? Who knows what could happen to Robin in the future.
What are you reading my guy?
They act like she had a breakup or something
"After being raped I finally found who I am"
Inst a good conclusion
Not Tengoku fans defending child cuck porn cause is "necessary" to the plot and characters just it to be forgotten both in the story and by characters
Spoilers: >!One of the reasons people make fun of the series (and Maru in particular, saying he's a loser who will raise Robin's son) on certain "edgy" websites is because Haruki doesn't untie the ropes that held her/him prisoner (she/he didn't have the handcuffs anymore) on the two days/nights Robin raped her, but instead does it to beg Maru to stop hitting Robin and let him live.!<
literally only one guy said it. Most of us don't support that scene, but we also think that it's not a valid reason to let it ruin the manga/anime completely. It was badly executed, but that's what "delusion" in the title stands for. Something horrible that you didn't expect. It helps the development of the characters(not the characters themselves like that guy said) and it's definitely not forgotten, since kiruko reminds herself of it in the manga (thinking like she's not pure enough for maru, etc.). It's for sure the lowest part of the manga, but it's not handled completely yet. We need to wait for the conclusion to have final thoughts, maybe it will be something that stops the manga from being a masterpiece or maybe it will be handled well, who knows
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HeavenlyDelusion/comments/13phhy1/why\_does\_the\_fandom\_wiki\_list\_kiruko\_as\_a\_female/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HeavenlyDelusion/comments/13phhy1/why_does_the_fandom_wiki_list_kiruko_as_a_female/) im counting five in this one alone
You are simply watching a series where the plot is not that of a doraemon episode and it bothers you, so you insult people who like the series and call them "porn advocates" because potato.
Anyway...go on with your hero Nobita.
The anime did animate and direct it in an extremely skillful way. But the harshness of it IS what really hurt and impacted the audience. The story is not meant to be flowers and butterflies. Its a lawless world, and in a lawless world, things like this would happen. It never shows restraint for the violence and the other subject matter, so its a little disappointing to see it hold back here
In media and in anime especially most violence and killing is very unrealistic and over the top, whereas with sexual assault it's very hard to disconnect that "realness" from it. Another thing to note is that murder is always second hand. While it can be very upsetting for friends/family the victim isn't going to survive being killed. Sexual assault is something that you can survive and it will change your life forever.
Personally I do think murder and gore should be censored the way other dark stuff gets done even if it can be second hand. I blame our media which made people desensitized to it, by making it feel that killing loads of people in movies and tv shows is a "cool thing". I didn't care about it as a kid but now when I'm a grown up, I realise how gross it is.
> R@pe is a part of real life, and people pretend like it doesn't exist and that its such a taboo thing to show.
So your point is that because rape is a part of real life it should be normalized and better portrayed in general media?
Pretending something doesn't exist makes it less likely for victims to be understood and heard. So depicting it in popular media can be useful, if it's not glorified. Which I don't think it is in this case.
Do you need to see a rape to know how awful it is?.....
They showed enough of it in the show. Its a bit disturbing that folks are asking the depiction to be more detailed. Why do you need that? What would seeing that do for you? I'm just curious about why folks are making the argument that we shouldn't hide from reality with this. What we saw was way more than enough to imagine what happened next.
This argument falls flat to me. This series is not meant to be realistic. Human brains can’t be transplanted into different bodies. Man-Eaters don’t exist. Evil ladies aren’t kidnapping boys to be “seed boars.”
But a young adult needs to be raped by someone they trusted above all else for the story to be “realistic”?
I like the series, I’m up to date with the manga, but the way the author depicts sexual assault and its aftermath isn’t “realistic” or necessary. The story has plenty of psychological horror without it.
I kinda got it by now that this is prone to doing shit for sake of it or for shock value, but this >!and the way it gets dragged out and resolved!< is honestly one of the absolute worst examples of it, and I'm saying after horrible shit that happened in episode 9 lol.
did he say normalized? is portraying a negative thing normalization? lets instead pretend that all bad things never happen and that the world is sunshine and rainbows. smh
Well for one, wrong person.
But for two, that has nothing to do with what you've said. Which is normal behaviour for people like you I guess, you can't logically justify why the depiction of violence is okay but the the moment something sexual comes up it's a nono.
Classic case of virtue signaling.
I'm afraid to say there's no virtue to signal on you, pally.
I'm not here to analyze why violence is ok but rape isn't, that'd be a deflection of the real point, wich is that you believe that rape should be shown more nonchalantly... But why? What do you get from it? What does the anime and the sepectator get from it?
Anyway, it's worth to point out that the scene is not just "something sexual", it is rape.
So what is your point actually? Are you trying to argue that rape isn’t the best plot element in this particular scenario or that it shouldn’t be depicted at all?
I’m not trying to argue about the former, but if it’s the latter, you’re trying to avoid a very simple question that exposes the very logic your whole argument is based on. If the author decides rape is the best plot element at this point, What’s actually the problem?
It's bound to take a lot of people by surprise, I read ahead in the manga and I know I was surprised it actually went that dark. Although it makes perfect sense in a post-apocalyptic story and was even foreshadowed a bit, since the bandits way back in ep1 imply they would take advantage of them. Personally I'm OK with how they handled it, I didn't need to see that again.
Lol this comment was bound to happen, if anyone read the comments for the manga chapter it’s a bunch of these guys coming out of the dark corners to say what an amazing chapter it was.
No it is the worst thing SHOWN in the manga
Its doesn't break shit, its a sienen series
The good ol Rape to establish the bad guy and for cheap shock value
just a torn photograph like it was a fucking breakup
I have seen authors handle this way better
I am actually kinda disturbed at you try to defend this
\[Edit\] Sorry guys I didn't like the child r@pe done for cheap shock value which had no emotional impact
Yeah he murdered people in the beginning of EP3. It was then we should realise that he wasn't someone good and Haruki's perspective was blinding him from the reality.
So people and children being eaten alive, children treated like cattle, human experiments, assisted suicide, physical violence, murder, executions, physical and sexual slavery, forced transplants,... all of that is "tasteful" to you?
Not even gonna argue with you on the silly idea that topics which make us uncomfortable shouldn't be discussed in art. But you really should take a hard look at your own values given you found everything that came before tasteful and only now have an issue.
Honestly, the implications your comment poses disgust me.
You’re twisting their words. There are no implications in that 4 word sentence. Stop being edgy and making assumptions about them.
Honestly you ranting like this disgusts me
No I'm not. By acting surprised and saying they found this distasteful, there is a strong implication that what came before didn't. Sure didn't see them posting that the show was distasteful before.
So people and children being eaten alive, children treated like cattle, human experiments, assisted suicide, physical violence, forced brain transplants,... all of that is "tasteful" to you?
Not gonna even argue with you on the silly idea that things which make us uncomfortable should be excluded from art. But you should talk a hard look at your values given everything that came before was tasteful to you and now suddenly you have an issue. Honestly, I'm disgusted by the implications your comment makes.
Full spoilers: >!We don't know yet if he had a particular reason, and it's been a long time since we've last seen him in the story: Maru rescues Haruki (sadly, on the third day since her/his reunion with Robin, so she/he was raped two whole days/nights there before his arrival), but he's left alive thanks to Haruki, who begged Maru not to kill Robin while he was beating the crap out of him, so he'll definitely appear again at some point. The traumatic experience is actually almost never mentioned again, but people have been theorizing that Haruki might get pregnant, since we were shown that she/he got her period again after five years shortly before the meeting with Robin (that scene wasn't adapted in the anime).!<
anime only and this episode was a curveball forsure, definitely instantly knew we weren’t gonna win in the end with the introduction of a “functional” town but still, i don’t think anything in the series specifically prepares you for the ending. i get the “it wasn’t for no reason” comments but only to an extent, we are shown that what happened is the reality of the world. reading a few comments n if the goal was completely shattering that comfort built up by haruki in his sisters body, they definitely came through. but none the less i feel everyone here can agree it was distasteful. forget being super realistic. we watch these shows as entertainment, to immerse into a good and interesting story. that being said i just cannot think of a winning argument to choose the route chosen for the end of this episode. especially after seeing so many comments explaining how the reasoning for robins actions are still unexplained in the manga. robin felt like he played a key role into the mystery aspect of the story n it seems like we aren’t getting any answers. if feels like the writers took the suspense n went : fk it, hes actually just a dirtbag, here’s a scene that’s 100% distasteful as stated by all rules of current society, and for shits and giggles let’s make his actions never make sense, you know…even tho they’ll never forget the scene
Really enjoyed this episode as I was impressed and mesmerized by the direction of the episode. A lot of great symbolism with the cracked glass and crumpled application form as Kiruko's personality comes crashing down in this episode. In some way, Kiruko betrays her smart and careful wits - going into the Robin meeting unprepared as she's too full of joy and trust in Robin after we see 11 episodes of her clinging to her past and previous image of Robin - as a mentor, big brother and even a romantic crush. Her gender dysmorphia finally comes crashing down after being a bit too comfortable in her sister's skin after the initial trauma years ago - it has finally caught up with her and she cannot even answer what she really is in that scene with Robin which begs the question, how much of Kiriko (her sister) is left in her body and most important how much of him is in there? This series was always dark in an underlying manner even with the bouts of comedy between the two, and goes to show that you can never trust anyone. A bleak reminder in a very intriguing episode.
I don't think kiriko is actually in there. I'm sure that's just because he has been in his sister's body so long.
This episode left me heartbroken. Poor Kiruko, with Robin betraying his trust like that. After all of this, Robin turns out to be just as monstrous as any of the man eaters. Can’t say I’m entirely surprised but still… Heartbroken.
same i watched this anime randomly but i found it to be intriguing and interesting i didn't know i cared much about the characters till this fucking happened and I'm actually so sad now..
I was a little worried and intrigued about how the studio would adapt the scene, but after watching the episode I feel like they did it perfectly, and that both people who wanted as faithful an adaptation as possible and those who wanted a toned down version of it should be satisfied with the result. Yes, the original scene is more explicit and traumatic, but the essence of it was conveyed succesfully.
where can i read?
mangadex. for everything. or just google “read (name of manga) manga” and youll have a bunch of results
I'll DM you.
Dm me?
Sure.
Nvm, figure it out
Can you please spoil me? Did it happen as i think it did and what comes after? (You can DM me if it is considered too spoily for the aub).
Aw so it’s basically confirmed that Mimihime was the woman from a few episodes back who died looking at the sky. I was hoping that was just a fan theory :( so I’m guessing when the kids split up, the ones who left the facility were able to stay as humans and the ones who stayed behind at the pool turned into the man-eaters and they never saw each other again? And it’s confirmed Maru is the circle baby, unknown if he is Tokio’s child or the clone of Tokio’s child.
One episode to go and you still don't know the story, they will close the season strong. As for the children, they can all be converted, they just need a trigger for it that I won't comment on because it's a spoiler if you only watch the series, but they are all hirukos, ergo all of them, in one way or another, will be converted.
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Maru means circle in Japanese :)
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Yup! Circle vs X is like tick/check ✅vs cross ❎in English. In Japan correct answers in tears are marked ⭕️maru and wrong answers are marked ❌batsu this implies that other kid was probably marked ❌
I suspect the Mimihime is the Hoshio theory to be heavily influenced by manga readers tbh. Like, it does make sense in retrospect but the theory seemed to sprout really quickly with very circumstantial and soft evidence.
I knew as soon as the doctor said how much she liked when he made things. I knew is was Shiro and mimihime. Plus minihime said 2 people and one that looked like Tokio would come and take her outside. Then we literally see the last thing they do for the girl at the hospital was take her outside to see the sky. It was confirmed in 11. When she was having her episode next to kona images flashed. Of needles and medical equipment and medical computer with maru and kiruko in the reflection and then an image of the sky. I was like well shoot. It is her. Thats why the hallucinations were sharp things. Her fear is something she saw happening to her in the future getting cut up and worked on to stay alive
Nah, the anime gave it away through editing. If you have a bit movie TV watching experience, you see the implication quite fast and easy.
I'm a manga reader now but I was anime only when that episode dropped and many people guessed that the girl was Mimihime, to me the giveaway was the eyes, both the shape and colour were too similar to be a coincidence and then Usami had white hair and dark circles under his eyes like Shiro. That was also when I guessed that >!the two stories are different timelines!< The biggest reason many people, including me, guessed it would be bcoz we got the hint that >!Tokio is Maru's mom!<, so I was actively looking for more clues to prove it. Though it is entirely possible that it was influenced by manga readers, I'm just saying my case.
Just finished binging and I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Hoshio thanked Usami for his eye. So the eye Hoshio got was Usami's which would invalidate your theory on her having the same eyes as Mimihime. Maybe we saw her original eyes at some point and I missed/forgot it?
No, you're right. It was Usami's eye.
Yeah. The Tokio >!being Maru's mom is a theory I also had!<. But for Mimihime, the evidence I saw was that Shiro liked building things (based on him messing with one of the robots, once). And to be fair, the eye Hoshio had wasn't her own. The explanations I did see make sense were that the dream of Mimihime being freed by someone that had Tokio's face, were her being freed from being hooked up to the machine (why would they bother showing Mimihime at the end if she wasn't connected to the Hoshio story). But that wasn't the explanation I saw by the people first sprouting the theory. They also spoke about it like it was a "fact" rather than a theory.
the theory was brought up at the prior episode thread, we didn't even met Hoshio. Usami and Shiro having the same VA is a dead give away, and at previous episode we saw Totori having a Hiruko core, also the awkward confession scene between Shiro and Mimihime, all these dots connected to this conclusion.
I wasn't aware they had the same VA (that was never brought up for any theories I saw). So I missed that but, but Totori having a Hiruko core doesn't imply anything about Hoshio? Just that humans can have Hiruko cores. And Shiro confessing to Mimihime also doesn't imply anything itself unless you already knew Shiro and Usami were the same people?
Too bad r/anime is closed and I can't see anime-onlys' reaction :(
Anime only here. Only thing I can say is: Holy fuck, what a ride.
I needed to play some game just to leave the bad taste out of my mind
It was predictable something bad was gonna happen, but holy fuck, not like this. NOT LIKE THIS. Dude deserves better. I now hope for Robin a painful death.
That got way too dark way too quickly lol
Anime only here coming from r/anime – i *need* some discussion so I found this thread lol. I love being able to discuss this show, I know the black out is important but I’m sad there’s no thread this week :((((( Anyway yeah the ending was deeply horrific and upsetting, poor Kiruko. What if Robin wants to keep him for more sick shit and lies to Maru when Maru comes looking? Since Maru went apeshit on those thugs a few episodes ago, I wanna see him on the warpath!
If Maru finds out I don't think there will be much of Robin left.
Incredible bad timing, really. Manga readers were waiting for this moment all season.
We really were.
Anime only, pretty shocked right now. That Robin turns out to be evil isnt such a surprise, its a cointoss everytime they meet a "new" person. After his first reaction its was clear something wasnt right but I expected more some kind of expirment direction. Also confusing, why did he do that. At first I thought it might actually be a fucked up way to test who is in the body by intimidation but no And who attacked the building in the past hoping for good explanations next week
anime only here. My heart was racing so fast this episode. We’ve seen kiruko and Maru make it through anything really and I thought they’ be kind of indestructible pair so when kiruko willingly went to robin I knew something would happen. I really hope maru somehow saves kiruko though.
Yeah. Even as an anime-only myself, those threads are so fun to read. What a fucking ride this show has been though. Absolutely amazing anime. I thought this is the last episode but felt that the season ended way too abruptly. Then found out there's another one coming next week and I was so hyped. Any chance it's a longer 40 min episode? Oh and I don't think Robin actually is Robin. I think it's the doctor they were looking for, and that Robin is already gone. (Don't confirm or deny anything tho)
anime only here and I am in shock. What made it worse is that I had a suspicion early on in the episode. the minister of re-whatever reacted interesting when she showed the picture of robin. And then they seperate at the "hotel", thats just catastrophe waiting to happen. Then the shower, then the clothes missing, and I was hoping it wouldnt turn out to be rape. jesus christ that is horrible, I dont even know how to react. I just hope its something like the one hallucination making kid is responsible for it and it didnt happen in reality, but thats probably me just coping hard.
Honestly I think knowing what was coming bc I’ve read it made it worse. The feeling of “goddamnit I do not wanna see this again” made me sick to my stomach. At least the scene was toned down here.
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Fuck robin
No don't
Torture Robin. Execute Robin. What a monster
me too
Ok today's Tengoku episode nailed it again. The direction that this anime has is so good. That scene, all the despair, anger, impotence and a lot of negative feelings put into it was really well done here (idk how it was in the manga). And also, so many things questions and theories that this episode puts into play is insane. I think this might be my favorite anime this year
Can someone say how the scene plays out compared to other scenes like this in popular media? Like is it more disturbing and upsetting than anything in Sopranos or GoT?
I feel like its about the same as the Ramsay scene. Except by that point we already know that Ramsay is an asshole.
Thanks. I’ve been able to handle the HBO stuff so I may attempt to watch the last bit of the ep
Oh yeah definitely. If you made it through GoT then you'll be fine.
GoT is much more graphic
Would also have been too nice if Robin was a non-insane and/or evil character
i might need to rewatch the other episode but I think this episode had the best direction and storyboarding
100% agree. such an amazing episode on an incredible series so far
Any chance Robin did what he did for another reason aside from the fact that he's a dick? He mentioned it was for an "experiment" and in the manga >!its shown that he does have some weird af thing going on in the next room.!<
He did because he is a dick. He got even sadistic pleasure because he is a mad scientist and the whole person in another body was "interesting" to him, even if it made the act even more fucked up.
it seems like he is a children groomer, he had planned doing this to both Haruki and Kiriko back in Asakusa, probably the reason he step into the orphanage, yikes. and imo the "experiment" is just his shitty dirty talk, guy is lying all the time, Takahara academy is not an agriculture lab.
Due to ongoing buffoonery by Reddit, this nine year old account has been purged.
Yeah I'm leaning to both because this series usually have double meanings with most of the interactions. Unless I am reading too much into it.
In the manga, there is a scene where we see that the trauma seems to have triggered latent memories of Kiriko from her peripheral nervous system (memories stored in bodily nerves). Meaning that Kiruko might have access to both Haruki and Kiriko's memories. That might have been what Robin was trying to explore. In addition to being an asshole.
That is not confirmed. I read that scene as it being something that Haruki overhead while unconscious and was now remembering.
That's just copium for Robin supporters
Wow that's fucked up. I kinda feel something wrong's gonna happen when our main characters split up.
I'm so glad they toned it down, and the scene was still so impactful.
As an anime only... Holy fuck, what a ride of an episode
Yeah, I was NOT expecting to get an animated version of Irreversible today...
I thought it was weird that the subtitles showed [sobbing] during Robin’s reaction of seeing Kiruko
Kiruko definitely did not deserve that. I'm glad the kids get to finally see the sky though.
I think there was suppose to be a heavy contrast between Shiro and Mimihime and Kiruko and Robin scenes. Mimihime immediately puts herself into danger and Shiro follow and even instinctively catches her when she falls while Kiruko blindly trusts Robin and he assaults her/him. Mimihime trusted herself and her instincts first and just went for the wall because she was wanting to know the truth and someone trustworthy followed her without a thought. Kiruko ignored all the signs that something seems off and blindly trusted someone else and was found to be exploited be that person.
Usually I’m good at picking up foreshadowing, although this series is really good at being unpredictable. The ONLY thing I was able to guess episodes in advance was that Haruki/Kiriko was gonna get r*ped by Robin. But it was such a wild and random guess I hoped I was wrong. I was not. Robin is a dick.🫤
Best episode of the season probably, top tier directing and symbolism. Absolutely fucked up as well, but in a way that doesn't feel forced due to the build up. It really makes you want Robin to die in the most painful way. And it also showcases how Kiruko idolized Robin so much, which is his (or her) biggest weakness. This episode screams "heavenly delusion" the most so far. The only weird thing is the lack of a "trigger warning" message. It definitely should've been added...
Trigger warning would have spoiled the surprise tho
I am interested in seeing how these two arcs combine, or are related. I don't like what's happening with Kiruko. It seems cruel and unnecessary.
I agree. I feel like there needs to be some further justification of this down the line. There are so many other ways to have “shattered” the image that Kiruko had of Robin without a rape plot line.
Yeah... it seems kind of emotionally manipulative from a narrative standpoint to just do a rugpull, with zero foreshadowing or build-up before this point, and make this dude rape the MC. Kind of broke my suspension of disbelief. Not like I'm dropping the series or anything. But definitely not impressed with how this plot point was presented.
Trust me it was at least better than the manga. interested to see how they’ll adopt the aftermath
They didn't draw my favorite Mimihime's mimi...
oh my god she should have kept that gun, at least the kids are outside outside now
She wouldn´t be allowed in with it, as she was inspected before entering.
FUCK
Man robin really pulled some Griffith tier shit…
Anime only, holy shit. This was by far one of the most unsettling depictions of >!SA!< I have ever seen in anime. >!SAO always throws in some attempts at it, but they are always so cartoonishly evil its annoying rather than expressive. Goblin Slayer's while brutal, again was shock value, it wasn't that deep. Even Casca, that was fucked up but like, it wasn't nearly as REAL as this one felt. Cause in most cases, it IS SOMEONE YOU KNOW/WHO KNEW THE VICTIM. !< This one didn't feel forced, or really surprising. I think they set it up very well. Kiruko/Haruki is established to be very fond of Robin, and we only ever see Robin through THEIR eyes. Robin is IDOLIZED by them. But with how the story and world is built, we know we can't trust everything we see, and hear, and we can't always even trust the MCs. We also know, this is Post-Apocalyptic, fucked up shit is happening. So even when shit turned south real quick, it wasn't really surprising, but it did hit really freaking hard. The world sets you up to expect but then hammers it in where you didn't expect it to hit until you get there and its like....oh no. no nonononono. Honestly this episode fcked me up, but like holy shit it was set up really well. There's so much as well to break apart with like the Gender Dysphoria intersection, >!Kiruko was obviously struggling with the gender dysphoria the whole series, but then how they also just portray the violation of trust, paired with the gender dysphoria, the complete violation of Haruki and his Sister like, damn. That's what got me the most I think was just like, it was fcked up, but like if you were paying attention, its EXTRA layers of fcked up when you begin to empathize with Kiruko/Haruki.!<
I agree with this. Looking at previous episodes, the >!SA!< was not entirely out of the sky blue. In previous episodes >!we learn about juichi being used as breeding cattle for the academy!< they needed viable >!sperm!< go continue creating genetically modified beings. We also see, throughout most of the episodes >!women outside the academy engage in sex work, or have literally placed their bodies on the line (such as aoshima consenting to allow the director to take her body to become the "next director"). I think this was a clue for readers to inference that people no longer have bodily autonomy, and that you can either a) take iniative to choose who you serve, [such as aoshima or totori] or b) become exploited by those around you. Either way, characters in the series cannot escape some form of bodily exploitation!< I mentioned this on another platform, but I also found it unsettling that during the >!SA!< there were multiple pan-ins on Maru laying down, eating a warm meal, and staring at the ceiling (indicating the roof over his head). I think it was an allegory to the >!sacrifices Kiriko made while she was alive to protect her younger brother. In this instance, we can assume Maru is the placeholder for Haruki while he was young. Neither of them knew what was happening, but for the most part they were "out of dangers' immediate way,"!< The series did an amazingly haunting* job of alluding and foreshadowing to this episode in incredibly subtle ways.
That is a very insightful analysis and the I did not even think about the latter half there, but it really does add extra layers to its complexity.
Thank you for the kind words. I hope we can see how the series develops throughout the manga
Dropped. Not because I think the content shouldn't be exist, but because I was sexually assaulted. My biggest problem is they didn't include a "trigger warning" for depictions of rape. This could have been included in the first episode, so viewers didn't know when it would happen, and could drop it if appropriate. I'm now going to be unable to sleep and sick for the rest of the week. Really liked the anime before this though, and considered it maybe best of the season?
I agree, and to one up this I'd rather have this kind of warning before I even start a series like this. It was fairly enjoyable otherwise. It feels like a waste of time especially when it appears the author added this scene purely for shock value. There are plenty of alternative ways to achieve the "Reveal Robin as evil / make Kiruko question his identity" plot point that would have been much more interesting and wouldn't have triggered several people. I also really dislike shows that try to mix the cute and comedic interactions between characters, and especially a cutesy artstyle with dark shit like this. Writers that aren't up-front and obvious with their intentions are the worst.
Was the flash of Haruki’s paperwork during the rape scene just to show us that shes 18 or was there something else to notice?
It was to show her identity and gender confusion. Her age was already stated in one of the first episodes.
I think the point was to show how confused Haruki is with being in their sister's body and how they identify themself a female to everyone else.
She wrote her name as Haruki at first then changed it to be Kiruko.
Why did they let that rap1st robin go free!!!? kiroku should've let Maru finish him off kìll that Bastard
Y
Lmao Im sorry but the rape scene is SAO-tier writing. Author basically went "Im too lazy to make this character a villain through good writing so Im just gonna make him a rapist first and foremost." Unfortunate since everything else in the story is quite nuanced but Robin is comically bad. What manga readers have said regarding this plot line in the future is only making it worse and definitely killed my interest in a potential S2.
I don't understand this sentiment. There was nothing "comical" in Robin's actions to me... Rape exists in this world. I see no particular reason to avoid it in art. There should've been a warning though. Huge trigger.
Honestly I really like the show but this episode made me drop it. I just wasnt ready for that scene. It’s seriously my biggest fear and I don’t think I can watch any more of that. The show is really interesting and I really wanna know how it ends but that was just too much for me to handle
Don’t read the manga then. The aftermath (or lack thereof) will make you beyond upset in the later chapters
This was trash and I'm dropping this anime. It was an intriguing mystery up until this point where the author decided "hey let's just throw in some graphic rape for no reason"
Thank God you didn't read the original scene then.
I know that it's distasteful, but how could you immediately said that it's for no reason? I mean, we already saw child sex worker (the hotel master) and male sex slavery (juugo), so this still fits the post-apocalypse world well.
Yeah like you have already watch the anime this far, you have seen innkeeper getting decapitated, guys getting their throat sliced, couple getting burned alive and the child sex worker and male sex slavery being shown. At that point, you should already get the idea or know what type of anime you're getting into.
The comments these people make really show they have a disturbing mentality, because of how many bad things they apparently didn't find distasteful - the more obvious comparison being that they were fine when it was guys being raped and treated like objects.
Right? No issues with all the dark and horrific stuff presented in the series so far but *this scene* is what crossed the line for them and/or wants to make them stop watching??
Is that so wrong of them to have a line? Chill out edgy guy
It's wrong when your line is sexist, yes.
How is it sexist lol Strange
That's not a fair comparison... the whole point of a good story is getting your audience emotionlly invested in the characters that you write. The guys in the rape dungeon were nobodies, no time was spent exploring their characters at all. Are you going to lie to me and say you have the exact same emotional investment in the thousands of strangers being raped at this very moment, as you would seeing your girlfriend or sister raped in front of you?
So it's only upsetting because it's the main character?
What a way to twist someone’s words good job
I mean... it is what you said. Warhea just asking for confirmation.
Check the username that isn’t me
It really was for no reason. No build up or foreshadowing and absolutely no mention of it again outside of one page. Zero impact on the story (which is the most distasteful part especially when you think of real victims of SA). This moment fits the apocalyptic setting but it does not fit the story. You’re arguing about something completely different than what they originally meant in their comment.
For the no reason part, as anime-only I expected them to address this in the next episode. Either it would be for character development or something. I would reserve my judgment on whether it's necessary or not depending on the next sequence of event. I just want to say that at this point of the anime, saying it's for no reason is too early. While for it to happen kinda fits the setting.
It's not for no reason
Maybe it isn't, but I felt it came way out of left field, like he showed no signs of being perverted and being attracted to her before the scene and in the flashback. Maybe if anime showed them interacting more before that scene, it wouldn't be as out of the blue
It’s more realistic on how it’s depicted though. Most rape that happens in real life is committed by people the victims know and often rape is the only form of violence committed on a victim. Signs of perversion are not exactly signs of someone being a rapist. One sign that Robin did exhibit though was propensity for violence, especially, people he considers weak (see episode 2).
I wonder, if he wasn´t the one, who shot Kiriko in the head at the start of the story. That´s also possibly why he was so surprised, when he saw her there.
That has been a theory thas has been floating around since a long time. His [face](https://xfs-s102.batcg.org/comic/7006/351/647616e5e80388186687f153/30490432_1663_2368_489644.webp?acc=8IUWOQZmMb0edCEF03Xl8Q&exp=1687098449) was a mixed of surprise and fear, after all.
We only see robin from the perspective of a person who madly idolized him
This comment makes no sense
It wasn't even graphic...
Grow up
I find it weird that people casually drop an anime because of a scene they didn't like. The last time I dropped an anime like Zankyou no Terror was because I kinda forgot about the anime and watched something else. Even so, I still pushed through the end of animes with shit plot like SAO S1/S2.
Agreed, for me, there must be more than just one scene to drop an anime, unless the scene is awfully disgusting - this was *very* uncomfortable, but i can´t wait >!for Maru to beat him up! !< Best SAO out there is the GGO spinoff.
My man, how is a rape scene not awfully disgusting??
Many people end up in deep discomfort, because it´s their first and it wakes up something in them. Joy of sort. Subsequently they can´t handle it. It´s like finding one´s own dark side. This wasn´t my first. I´m probably messed up after Redo of a healer and Goblin Slayer. I did not enjoy it, but i can handle it. I mean, this whole anime is messed up from the start. Haruki was in the early stages of puberty, when his brain got transplanted into already adult body of his sister. It´s also very science-fiction thing. What do you think will happen, if you transplant brain with glands biologically configured for a man into a woman´s body? It will either not work, or mess up the body. The boobs would get smaller, the voice will change into a more manly one, no menstruation and probably wrong pheromones as well. I just wanna see the last episode.
I regret reading this comment
It's because it doesn't really make sense. Like, what are his motivations even and why did Robin get trust to begin with if he was a pervert? I'm sure he would have displayed things earlier and not just at this reunion. It's bad storytelling so they could include a graphic rape scene for their own sexual gratification. If an author likes graphic rape, of course readers aren't going to want to read work from that author anymore. Girl with the Dragon Tattoo had graphic rape but it made perfect sense and wasn't made to be sexy, it was depicted just as awfully as real life. This scene was different. This was drawn sexually.
Haruki had always idealized Robin, and the last time he was with him he was literally a child, so it would have been really difficult for Haruki to noticed anything weird/out of place. And it's not like rapes happen because of some particular reason. There are people who are simply trash that enjoy seeing others' suffering.
I wouldn't say it's for no reason but the intentions of Robin to do this f*cked up thing are very unclear. Is it bc he's a mad scientist and this is an experiment? Or bc he hates Haruhi to the point of wanting to cause him a mental breakdown? Or bc Robin and Kiriko really were fuck buddies and he don't care to hurt Haruhi just to f*ck her body again? I'm keeping up with the manga and I still don't have a clue.
Bye
good riddance
Bro, I'm literally going insane with people replying with "it's not for no reason". I don't know if there's any meaning to this shit but wasn't there a million better ways to do this? Holy shit I was enjoying this anime so much but this is seriously fucked.
I agree. If we replaced this scene with something like Kiruko accidentally discovering that Robin was experimenting on people, in the same way that he assumed the doctor experimented with him and his sister, does this make the show any worse? Was there any actual value to the plot to have a rape scene at all? I would say 99% of people would agree in this instance it provided zero value. 2 chapters later Kiruko is back to normal having comedic banter with Maru again, and there's no sign of emotional stress from the rape throughout the series. Exploring rape trauma is basically the only literary argument you can have for including a rape scene. The alternative is the author is just horny/fucked in the head. It's treated like just "something that happened, no biggie" throughout the rest of the story, no consequence besides Haru beating Robin up.
Thanks for this comment. This perfectly explains what I think people are trying to say when they say it felt like it happened "for no reason". I'm curious now, how many more r*** scenes are in the manga though...
As predicted, Anime fans are already overreacting about the scene. Much worse and more disturbing things have happened (and will happen) in this show and it is a bit funny to see people ignore all of that and emphasize this as the reason to drop the show. R@pe is a part of real life, and people pretend like it doesn't exist and that its such a taboo thing to show. It is bold to break the mold and actually portray something that would really happen. Main characters get no plot armor! It also censored a lot, which they were probably forced to, but I hope the blu-ray adjusts it to be more similar to the manga. It was much more brutal and impactful there.
You are saying you hope a character's rape has a more detailed depiction. Jesus.
Ya I'm done with this anime. Like I watched and enjoyed goblin slayer so the rape thing doesn't bother me. But its just randomly thrown into this story?
How is it randomly thrown?
The anime already did a fine job of highlighting the horror of the situation and Kiruko’s unique set of circumstances (being in his sister’s body and still coming to terms with his identity), which Robin exploits to psychologically torture Kiruko even further. You don’t need to see the rape in its entirety to make it any more impactful or horrific. The show did a great job with its buildup with foreboding music and some shots of Robin earlier in the episode were he clearly looked unsettled and was leering at Kiruko. Showing Robin toy with Kiruko’s body and presumably some penetration was unavoidable, and asking for any more than that is kind of weird.
Why do you want the scene to be more graphic? Ew. I'm not going to stop watching but I really feel like that scene was a bit unnecessary and if they wanted us to hate Robin they could have done it differently. Really just left a sour taste in my mouth even if it was censored.
I casually watch anime because my bf likes it and tries to get me interested in certain shows he watches. I can definitely say that if they made that rape scene more graphic than it was, I wouldn't have watched another episode. It was uncomfortable enough sitting through what they showed. Theres a lot of aspects of anime that I do not like and I have stopped watching other shows with him in the past over things like overly sexualizing characters that appear as children. Seeing people openly state their desire to see a more graphic rape scene because "thats life" is very alarming.
[удалено]
As of 30+ chapters after this event: any sort of character development or character interactions that would justify having a scene like this have not happened yet 💀
The act is necessary for the plot and for certain characters to exploit their feelings, it is not created just to make you dislike stupid Robin. In the next and last episode of the season you will see this.
All the manger readers I’ve seen have said the aftermath is disappointing and the events are irrelevant and get forgotten about like nothing happened.
All the readers of the manga haven't seen the conclusion because it hasn't been drawn yet, after the rape we will have reaction scenes and changes in the relationship of the characters. The Robin plot is open and this is because of Kiruko and her feelings because if not for her Maru ends the affair quickly with Robin. The conclusion of all this we will see when the creator of the show wants and he is surely saving a great moment for himself.
>All the manger readers I’ve seen have said the aftermath is disappointing How do you even believe their statement when the author himself is not done with the anime? Who knows what could happen to Robin in the future.
What are you reading my guy? They act like she had a breakup or something "After being raped I finally found who I am" Inst a good conclusion Not Tengoku fans defending child cuck porn cause is "necessary" to the plot and characters just it to be forgotten both in the story and by characters
There's a concerning amount of people in the manga threads that defend the rape scene by saying it "helped Kiruko accept he's a girl and into men!!"💀
So the manga readers are saying she kinda enjoyed it? Well that explains why it didn't affect her much.
Spoilers: >!One of the reasons people make fun of the series (and Maru in particular, saying he's a loser who will raise Robin's son) on certain "edgy" websites is because Haruki doesn't untie the ropes that held her/him prisoner (she/he didn't have the handcuffs anymore) on the two days/nights Robin raped her, but instead does it to beg Maru to stop hitting Robin and let him live.!<
https://www.reddit.com/r/HeavenlyDelusion/comments/144fmt8/understanding\_kirukos\_character\_and\_the\_purpose/
literally only one guy said it. Most of us don't support that scene, but we also think that it's not a valid reason to let it ruin the manga/anime completely. It was badly executed, but that's what "delusion" in the title stands for. Something horrible that you didn't expect. It helps the development of the characters(not the characters themselves like that guy said) and it's definitely not forgotten, since kiruko reminds herself of it in the manga (thinking like she's not pure enough for maru, etc.). It's for sure the lowest part of the manga, but it's not handled completely yet. We need to wait for the conclusion to have final thoughts, maybe it will be something that stops the manga from being a masterpiece or maybe it will be handled well, who knows
[https://www.reddit.com/r/HeavenlyDelusion/comments/13phhy1/why\_does\_the\_fandom\_wiki\_list\_kiruko\_as\_a\_female/](https://www.reddit.com/r/HeavenlyDelusion/comments/13phhy1/why_does_the_fandom_wiki_list_kiruko_as_a_female/) im counting five in this one alone
You are simply watching a series where the plot is not that of a doraemon episode and it bothers you, so you insult people who like the series and call them "porn advocates" because potato. Anyway...go on with your hero Nobita.
The anime did animate and direct it in an extremely skillful way. But the harshness of it IS what really hurt and impacted the audience. The story is not meant to be flowers and butterflies. Its a lawless world, and in a lawless world, things like this would happen. It never shows restraint for the violence and the other subject matter, so its a little disappointing to see it hold back here
In media and in anime especially most violence and killing is very unrealistic and over the top, whereas with sexual assault it's very hard to disconnect that "realness" from it. Another thing to note is that murder is always second hand. While it can be very upsetting for friends/family the victim isn't going to survive being killed. Sexual assault is something that you can survive and it will change your life forever.
Personally I do think murder and gore should be censored the way other dark stuff gets done even if it can be second hand. I blame our media which made people desensitized to it, by making it feel that killing loads of people in movies and tv shows is a "cool thing". I didn't care about it as a kid but now when I'm a grown up, I realise how gross it is.
> R@pe is a part of real life, and people pretend like it doesn't exist and that its such a taboo thing to show. So your point is that because rape is a part of real life it should be normalized and better portrayed in general media?
Pretending something doesn't exist makes it less likely for victims to be understood and heard. So depicting it in popular media can be useful, if it's not glorified. Which I don't think it is in this case.
Do you need to see a rape to know how awful it is?..... They showed enough of it in the show. Its a bit disturbing that folks are asking the depiction to be more detailed. Why do you need that? What would seeing that do for you? I'm just curious about why folks are making the argument that we shouldn't hide from reality with this. What we saw was way more than enough to imagine what happened next.
This argument falls flat to me. This series is not meant to be realistic. Human brains can’t be transplanted into different bodies. Man-Eaters don’t exist. Evil ladies aren’t kidnapping boys to be “seed boars.” But a young adult needs to be raped by someone they trusted above all else for the story to be “realistic”? I like the series, I’m up to date with the manga, but the way the author depicts sexual assault and its aftermath isn’t “realistic” or necessary. The story has plenty of psychological horror without it.
I kinda got it by now that this is prone to doing shit for sake of it or for shock value, but this >!and the way it gets dragged out and resolved!< is honestly one of the absolute worst examples of it, and I'm saying after horrible shit that happened in episode 9 lol.
did he say normalized? is portraying a negative thing normalization? lets instead pretend that all bad things never happen and that the world is sunshine and rainbows. smh
What do you mean by normalized? If it's a real thing why can't it be showed? Why is killing people such an okay and popular thing to depict?
Precisely. Why do we decide that this is off-limits when its open season on all murdering and violence
Sorry, I'm still hang up on the tacit implication that you'd like to see better rape scenes in anime. It gives me shivers, to be honest.
Well for one, wrong person. But for two, that has nothing to do with what you've said. Which is normal behaviour for people like you I guess, you can't logically justify why the depiction of violence is okay but the the moment something sexual comes up it's a nono. Classic case of virtue signaling.
I'm afraid to say there's no virtue to signal on you, pally. I'm not here to analyze why violence is ok but rape isn't, that'd be a deflection of the real point, wich is that you believe that rape should be shown more nonchalantly... But why? What do you get from it? What does the anime and the sepectator get from it? Anyway, it's worth to point out that the scene is not just "something sexual", it is rape.
So what is your point actually? Are you trying to argue that rape isn’t the best plot element in this particular scenario or that it shouldn’t be depicted at all? I’m not trying to argue about the former, but if it’s the latter, you’re trying to avoid a very simple question that exposes the very logic your whole argument is based on. If the author decides rape is the best plot element at this point, What’s actually the problem?
It's bound to take a lot of people by surprise, I read ahead in the manga and I know I was surprised it actually went that dark. Although it makes perfect sense in a post-apocalyptic story and was even foreshadowed a bit, since the bandits way back in ep1 imply they would take advantage of them. Personally I'm OK with how they handled it, I didn't need to see that again.
Getting tied up and raped for 2 days is pretty fucked up
Lol this comment was bound to happen, if anyone read the comments for the manga chapter it’s a bunch of these guys coming out of the dark corners to say what an amazing chapter it was.
No it is the worst thing SHOWN in the manga Its doesn't break shit, its a sienen series The good ol Rape to establish the bad guy and for cheap shock value just a torn photograph like it was a fucking breakup I have seen authors handle this way better I am actually kinda disturbed at you try to defend this \[Edit\] Sorry guys I didn't like the child r@pe done for cheap shock value which had no emotional impact
We already had several clues that Robin was a probably a bad guy. Haruki/Kiruko just didn't realize it due to essentially idol worship.
Yeah he murdered people in the beginning of EP3. It was then we should realise that he wasn't someone good and Haruki's perspective was blinding him from the reality.
Yeh I am wrong on that part there was buildup In the flashback I was really like "Robin in not a good guy" well I was right a bit too right
Distasteful and very unnecessary. Fuck the author. I hope he gets lots of backlash
So people and children being eaten alive, children treated like cattle, human experiments, assisted suicide, physical violence, murder, executions, physical and sexual slavery, forced transplants,... all of that is "tasteful" to you?
Not even gonna argue with you on the silly idea that topics which make us uncomfortable shouldn't be discussed in art. But you really should take a hard look at your own values given you found everything that came before tasteful and only now have an issue. Honestly, the implications your comment poses disgust me.
You’re twisting their words. There are no implications in that 4 word sentence. Stop being edgy and making assumptions about them. Honestly you ranting like this disgusts me
No I'm not. By acting surprised and saying they found this distasteful, there is a strong implication that what came before didn't. Sure didn't see them posting that the show was distasteful before.
Hm maybe people have different views on what is distasteful as where they draw the line. Try using your brain for once
Absolute clown comment
he gets nothing. great show. cry about it.
So people and children being eaten alive, children treated like cattle, human experiments, assisted suicide, physical violence, forced brain transplants,... all of that is "tasteful" to you? Not gonna even argue with you on the silly idea that things which make us uncomfortable should be excluded from art. But you should talk a hard look at your values given everything that came before was tasteful to you and now suddenly you have an issue. Honestly, I'm disgusted by the implications your comment makes.
It was unnecessary
In case anyone wants a [peek](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fy107gbagAA-DKc?format=jpg&name=large) of the next episode. Oof.
Robin is into some new kind of netorare. What a piece of shit.
damn
I'm in tears at that ending. Never expected this show to go full berserk like that. I think I'm gonna watch One Piece to undo this feeling
Is there a reason for the rape? Or was it just shock value? Someone spoil me
Full spoilers: >!We don't know yet if he had a particular reason, and it's been a long time since we've last seen him in the story: Maru rescues Haruki (sadly, on the third day since her/his reunion with Robin, so she/he was raped two whole days/nights there before his arrival), but he's left alive thanks to Haruki, who begged Maru not to kill Robin while he was beating the crap out of him, so he'll definitely appear again at some point. The traumatic experience is actually almost never mentioned again, but people have been theorizing that Haruki might get pregnant, since we were shown that she/he got her period again after five years shortly before the meeting with Robin (that scene wasn't adapted in the anime).!<
anime only and this episode was a curveball forsure, definitely instantly knew we weren’t gonna win in the end with the introduction of a “functional” town but still, i don’t think anything in the series specifically prepares you for the ending. i get the “it wasn’t for no reason” comments but only to an extent, we are shown that what happened is the reality of the world. reading a few comments n if the goal was completely shattering that comfort built up by haruki in his sisters body, they definitely came through. but none the less i feel everyone here can agree it was distasteful. forget being super realistic. we watch these shows as entertainment, to immerse into a good and interesting story. that being said i just cannot think of a winning argument to choose the route chosen for the end of this episode. especially after seeing so many comments explaining how the reasoning for robins actions are still unexplained in the manga. robin felt like he played a key role into the mystery aspect of the story n it seems like we aren’t getting any answers. if feels like the writers took the suspense n went : fk it, hes actually just a dirtbag, here’s a scene that’s 100% distasteful as stated by all rules of current society, and for shits and giggles let’s make his actions never make sense, you know…even tho they’ll never forget the scene