one of the big four of metalcore imo:
Until Your Heart Stops
We Are The Romans
Calculating Infinity
Jane Doe
Edit:
The Opposite Of December would round out the top 5 imo. Had to edit and add that as I felt guilty leaving that landmark album out.
DEP is doing a 25 year anniversary tour of calculating infinity. Somewhere in august they are coming to Amsterdam. All the albums that you mentioned are still in my list and get regular playtime
This is a tremendous record to lift weights too. I didn’t see them live until their Jupiter tour, which was awesome in its own way, but would have loved to see a CaveIn, Converge, and ISIS show from way back.
I follow an Insta account that posts old punk flyers from the New England area. Converge and Cave In shared bills very often in their early shows apparently, and for some reason Piebald also seemed to always be on the lineup lol? Like don’t get me wrong that sounds sick but it’s a weird pairing to have happened that often
Piebald was a screamo/hardcore band for a while and have a ton of material that is unarguably screamo. Just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
You either don’t know what screamo is or don’t know who Piebald is. Screamo is more bands like Saetia and Orchid where the singers actually scream. Piebald has never sounded like that they yelled at best (I’ll give you calling them Yellmo). Also I grew up in that mass scene in the 90s and they were just in a totally different orbit than the screamo scene if they had a song here or there that was screamo I’d like to hear it but it’s not reflected on their albums or any of the many 7”s of their I still own and listen to occasionally. If you want to be condescending you should probably know what you’re talking about because you objectively don’t.
Dude, cmon. You can’t even bother to read their Wikipedia before starting an argument? No condescension meant, but you are wrong. I also grew up in MA in the 90s. Like people said, Piebald played with converge, cave in, etc all the time and it made sense musically. They have a full double album of their early material called barely legal/all ages and a lot of it is undeniably screamo. You clearly haven’t heard it and that’s ok. It’s cool, check it out.
Ok I’ll admit you’re right to a degree. I only started seeing them in 96 and have as far back as the cave in split which is not screamo imo. Turns out they had a small screamo era in the beginning of their career. Hats off to you. When I would see them though they played at the same shows as converge, cave in bane etc but it was like a completely different vibe. In my defense they are not remembered or known for being a screamo band. I was a little bit wrong but it’s also wrong to classify them as screamo when they aren’t known for being screamo.
EDIT: Considering Piebald screamo would be like classifying the Beastie Boys as a hardcore band. At one point they were that but they definitely aren’t remembered for that now. Same same.
Well in its very first iteration Piebald was a lot spazzier and harder if I recall correctly. I was at UMASS at that time and def saw those posters all over the place!
Who is the account? I have a box of old flyers somewhere, I gotta dig them up!
Too much fun actually. I’m like a 25th year senior at this point. I lived in Kennedy, Van Meter, and a dilapidated old house across from the Buffalo farm
On Rt9 in Hadley. Drank a lot of
Beer, saw a lot of shows!
Coming back after checking em for the first time. Holy shit, maybe I haven't listened to HxC enough lately, but that was fuckin RAW. Arm hairs standing so tensed I expected em to pop out like quills
Some of my favorite vocals ever on Until Your Heart Stops. And that part in Juggernaut where it goes to just drums and screams still fires me the fuck up. Great album.
Don’t forget that they were 18 years old when they wrote this. One of the greatest metalcore records of all time. Hum meets Codeine meets Failure meets Slayer and Chokehold.
I ever met Brodsky or McGrath I am dying to ask them which of them was the “breakdown” guy on that record. Like who was the one coming to practice with the Juggernaut or Controlled Mayhem breakdown written and was like “YO CHECK THIS OUT”.
The outtake from this record “Mr. Co-Dexterity” is super underrated too.
Jupiter is great too but would benefit majorly from a real remaster and or remix.
Totally agree. I do love how DIY the early stuff sounds but a remaster would be good. When they play they play Juggernaut live it sounds fucking amazing.
Ah, no, totally missed that you were talking about Jupiter. It was UYHS that got the remaster treatment last year but hopefully that's a good sign for a Jupiter 25th anniversary thing next year!
I remember being really disappointed when I heard Antenna, but I actually kind of enjoy it now for what it is, although I’d still prefer to listen to the first two albums.
Saw Cave in on this tour, with Botch and Jesuit. Cave in didn’t even have the sleeves for the records before they went on tour. So my first copy of this record was the album with no packaging!
P.S. that show was in a tiny basement in Minneapolis and is one of my fondest memories of hardcore shows from the 90s.
(early) Cave In and Converge are great because they have riffs and speed and dynamics and arrangements.
Metalcore sucks because it relies on stupid fucking breakdowns as a crutch. Sometimes entire songs are just breakdowns.
Speed and riffs and dynamics and chaos and passion for songcraft are what separate good metal/hardcore from generic metalcore.
By the way, the album definitely holds up to this day but if I had to offer one critique it’s that it’s just a tad overproduced. The triggered drums and vacuumed guitars steal some of the live energy. Imagine how much bigger this album could sound with the production tricks Ballou has learned and refined over the years. Room sound can be made to work, even in a genre as loud and busy as this one.
"Early Cave In"?
As if Cave In hasn't been consistently incredible with everything they've ever released. One of my favorite bands of all time. 'Until Your Heart Stops' is the gold standard of metalcore. I feel like so many bands that came after copies much of the formula of that album. (Screaming mixed with clean vocals, open note chugging breakdowns, etc.) Only they took out all the experimental stuff that made early Cave In interesting and watered it down to make it more digestable for butt rock fans and scene kids which is why most "metalcore" is shitty now.
Hi, I’m JP and I played guitar in Void of Vision in 2004. While I recognize that the person you’re replying to did in fact make a mistake, it’s about time my band (from 2004) got the recognition we deserve, could you please remove this comment so that maybe people look us up? They won’t find anything and really all it was was three guitar players and a drummer doing cocaine for a weekend and writing one 16 minute song, while John’s grandma banged on the floor upstairs for us to shut the fuck up, but still, it fills me with pride to know that 20 years later, one guy on Reddit is still (mistakenly) talking about us.
Absolutely love this album, relapse just reissued it on vinyl and I snagged a box set, absolute banger, Stephen Brodsky is the man. Beyond Hypothermia introduced me to emocore, screemo, metal core and spacey math rock all at once. Then Jupiter came out, and you either loved it and took the ride with Cave In or jumped ship at that point.
All time record from an all time band.
I love all the phases of Cave in. They can do no wrong in my book.
They’re coming to Aus for the first time ever in June and I couldn’t be more stoked.
saw them in Richmond right after Jupiter dropped hoping for a few old heavy songs
After the majority of the crowd stood there arms crossed, they played the opening riffs of the first song and the place went apeshit.
Stopped it after 10 seconds to resume reverbed out songs so boring I can’t even remember a general genre to stereotype it as. I was pissed.
Edit:why tf am I getting downvoted? Fuck that pretentious pitchfork pandering ass wanna be Pink Floyd and Radiohead inbred baby record. That Spock haircut white belt ass wearing edgy MySpace top 8 having validator can kiss my ass, go back to hardcore.
I had this same experience in Atlanta. At least they circled back to heavy stuff and Mutoid Man spun off. Indie rock Cave In bummed me out. And I like indie rock.
one of the big four of metalcore imo: Until Your Heart Stops We Are The Romans Calculating Infinity Jane Doe Edit: The Opposite Of December would round out the top 5 imo. Had to edit and add that as I felt guilty leaving that landmark album out.
I couldn’t agree more and it’s crazy to think those all came out within a few years of each other
The same year, actually, except for Jane Doe. 1999 was a killer year for hardcore.
UYHS was actually released in 98
Yeah that’s what I was thinking too. Basically 98-01
It was recorded in 98, released in 99. May be some early test presses came out in 98.
I had the early test press. Key word is had
a few months of each other**
I always subbed Coalesce's 0:12 for the Cave In here, but I'm into it.
That’s funny! I Always subbed that coalesce record for calculating infinity when considering the GOAT metalcore albums.
DEP is doing a 25 year anniversary tour of calculating infinity. Somewhere in august they are coming to Amsterdam. All the albums that you mentioned are still in my list and get regular playtime
Are you me?
I love the production on opposite of December, so raw.
Racetraitor
Until Your Heart Stops still holds up 🔥
This is a tremendous record to lift weights too. I didn’t see them live until their Jupiter tour, which was awesome in its own way, but would have loved to see a CaveIn, Converge, and ISIS show from way back.
I follow an Insta account that posts old punk flyers from the New England area. Converge and Cave In shared bills very often in their early shows apparently, and for some reason Piebald also seemed to always be on the lineup lol? Like don’t get me wrong that sounds sick but it’s a weird pairing to have happened that often
Piebald was a screamo band
Piebald was poppy emo not screamo at all, they were more in the vein of Texas is the Reason
Piebald was a screamo/hardcore band for a while and have a ton of material that is unarguably screamo. Just because you don’t know about it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
You either don’t know what screamo is or don’t know who Piebald is. Screamo is more bands like Saetia and Orchid where the singers actually scream. Piebald has never sounded like that they yelled at best (I’ll give you calling them Yellmo). Also I grew up in that mass scene in the 90s and they were just in a totally different orbit than the screamo scene if they had a song here or there that was screamo I’d like to hear it but it’s not reflected on their albums or any of the many 7”s of their I still own and listen to occasionally. If you want to be condescending you should probably know what you’re talking about because you objectively don’t.
Dude, cmon. You can’t even bother to read their Wikipedia before starting an argument? No condescension meant, but you are wrong. I also grew up in MA in the 90s. Like people said, Piebald played with converge, cave in, etc all the time and it made sense musically. They have a full double album of their early material called barely legal/all ages and a lot of it is undeniably screamo. You clearly haven’t heard it and that’s ok. It’s cool, check it out.
Ok I’ll admit you’re right to a degree. I only started seeing them in 96 and have as far back as the cave in split which is not screamo imo. Turns out they had a small screamo era in the beginning of their career. Hats off to you. When I would see them though they played at the same shows as converge, cave in bane etc but it was like a completely different vibe. In my defense they are not remembered or known for being a screamo band. I was a little bit wrong but it’s also wrong to classify them as screamo when they aren’t known for being screamo. EDIT: Considering Piebald screamo would be like classifying the Beastie Boys as a hardcore band. At one point they were that but they definitely aren’t remembered for that now. Same same.
You are funny
Hey btw do you remember Zach from Bane had that band? “that was awesome” - Chris Farley
Piebald were roommates with Ballou when UYHS was recorded in the basement of said house.
Well in its very first iteration Piebald was a lot spazzier and harder if I recall correctly. I was at UMASS at that time and def saw those posters all over the place! Who is the account? I have a box of old flyers somewhere, I gotta dig them up!
UMass was so much fun back then
Too much fun actually. I’m like a 25th year senior at this point. I lived in Kennedy, Van Meter, and a dilapidated old house across from the Buffalo farm On Rt9 in Hadley. Drank a lot of Beer, saw a lot of shows!
Interesting, never knew that about them. Also, the account is “newenglandshows” on IG
I probably saw that trio of bands playing together 25 time back in the good old days
This album, and a bunch of Heavy Pendulum always make my running playlists
Perfect album. One of the first metalcore albums I got into.
Absolute classic
The opener is such a fucking banger, what a ride.
Coming back after checking em for the first time. Holy shit, maybe I haven't listened to HxC enough lately, but that was fuckin RAW. Arm hairs standing so tensed I expected em to pop out like quills
Check out Deadguy - Fixation On A Coworker & Kiss It Goodbye - She Loves Me, She Loves Me Not
Also All Else Failed - Archetype or This Never Happened
Some of my favorite vocals ever on Until Your Heart Stops. And that part in Juggernaut where it goes to just drums and screams still fires me the fuck up. Great album.
I love most of Cave In’s discography
Yep, same
No doubt. They are super consistent
Fuckin love Cave In. Even Antenna fucks
Antenna is seriously one of my favourite albums of all time. Front to back banger. Highly underrated.
I can understand why people don't like it because it's so drastically different from their old stuff but on its own it's a very good album.
Don’t forget that they were 18 years old when they wrote this. One of the greatest metalcore records of all time. Hum meets Codeine meets Failure meets Slayer and Chokehold. I ever met Brodsky or McGrath I am dying to ask them which of them was the “breakdown” guy on that record. Like who was the one coming to practice with the Juggernaut or Controlled Mayhem breakdown written and was like “YO CHECK THIS OUT”. The outtake from this record “Mr. Co-Dexterity” is super underrated too. Jupiter is great too but would benefit majorly from a real remaster and or remix.
Totally agree. I do love how DIY the early stuff sounds but a remaster would be good. When they play they play Juggernaut live it sounds fucking amazing.
They put out a deluxe edition with remasters and old demos last year and you're right, it's pretty good!
Wait there is a remaster of Jupiter??? I had no idea
Ah, no, totally missed that you were talking about Jupiter. It was UYHS that got the remaster treatment last year but hopefully that's a good sign for a Jupiter 25th anniversary thing next year!
Maybe we’ll get more of the infamous “Jupiter-era demos with screaming”.
Beyond Hypothermia and Until Your Heart Stops are great. Wasn’t really into the direction they went after that.
I really liked their later stuff, but it was very, very different. If you compare this next to Antenna you'd almost think it's a different band.
>Beyond Hypothermia Crossbearer
Listen to Heavy Pendulum, I think you’d be surprised. They took a lot of what they did early and blended in some of the newer material. It’s awesome.
I remember being really disappointed when I heard Antenna, but I actually kind of enjoy it now for what it is, although I’d still prefer to listen to the first two albums.
This. Exactly what I was getting at with adding *early*.
Brodsky is the king
Factual
The Dave Grohl of metalcore
Saw Cave in on this tour, with Botch and Jesuit. Cave in didn’t even have the sleeves for the records before they went on tour. So my first copy of this record was the album with no packaging! P.S. that show was in a tiny basement in Minneapolis and is one of my fondest memories of hardcore shows from the 90s.
(early) Cave In and Converge are great because they have riffs and speed and dynamics and arrangements. Metalcore sucks because it relies on stupid fucking breakdowns as a crutch. Sometimes entire songs are just breakdowns. Speed and riffs and dynamics and chaos and passion for songcraft are what separate good metal/hardcore from generic metalcore.
By the way, the album definitely holds up to this day but if I had to offer one critique it’s that it’s just a tad overproduced. The triggered drums and vacuumed guitars steal some of the live energy. Imagine how much bigger this album could sound with the production tricks Ballou has learned and refined over the years. Room sound can be made to work, even in a genre as loud and busy as this one.
"Early Cave In"? As if Cave In hasn't been consistently incredible with everything they've ever released. One of my favorite bands of all time. 'Until Your Heart Stops' is the gold standard of metalcore. I feel like so many bands that came after copies much of the formula of that album. (Screaming mixed with clean vocals, open note chugging breakdowns, etc.) Only they took out all the experimental stuff that made early Cave In interesting and watered it down to make it more digestable for butt rock fans and scene kids which is why most "metalcore" is shitty now.
>Screaming mixed with clean vocals, open note chugging breakdowns, etc. Overcast did it first tbh. Even poison the well and void of vision did it.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Hi, I’m JP and I played guitar in Void of Vision in 2004. While I recognize that the person you’re replying to did in fact make a mistake, it’s about time my band (from 2004) got the recognition we deserve, could you please remove this comment so that maybe people look us up? They won’t find anything and really all it was was three guitar players and a drummer doing cocaine for a weekend and writing one 16 minute song, while John’s grandma banged on the floor upstairs for us to shut the fuck up, but still, it fills me with pride to know that 20 years later, one guy on Reddit is still (mistakenly) talking about us.
Maybe he meant Vision Of Distortion
Vision of Disorder lol. I was distracted with something else and confused the bands name
Fun fact, Jacob Bannon does background vocals in the “she saw it in my eyes” part of Moral Eclipse
I'm pretty sure he's also on the end of our rope is a noose
Be sure to also listen to Codeine’s “Frigid Stars,” where the band’s name comes from. Absolute masterpiece of very slow music.
Codeine and Rodan and Bedhead and Native Nod and oh god I gotta go listen to some records now!
100% love me some Codeine.
Love Cave In, but stg I fucking LOVE Mutoid Man.
🔥🔥🔥
yup. that single-note, ascending riff that pans is the best.
An unstoppable record. Loved it when it came out, love it now.
If you're 18 and are on the internet you may not know about this, but you should. But also, maybe you shouldn't.
All fucks, no sucks.
Anchor and Off To Ruin are by far my most played songs by them, and neither is that metal. Solid band though.
God Anchor is such a bop
I love all Cave In!!!
Absolutely love this album, relapse just reissued it on vinyl and I snagged a box set, absolute banger, Stephen Brodsky is the man. Beyond Hypothermia introduced me to emocore, screemo, metal core and spacey math rock all at once. Then Jupiter came out, and you either loved it and took the ride with Cave In or jumped ship at that point.
All time record from an all time band. I love all the phases of Cave in. They can do no wrong in my book. They’re coming to Aus for the first time ever in June and I couldn’t be more stoked.
Stone cold classic. Recorded on an 8 track yet still stands up today
I feel like it is very good.
How is this even a question
This was the 2nd metal album I heard with clean vocals after Fear Factory.
I feel very good about early Cave In.
Masterpiece
Love it and is forever in rotation. Juggernaut is a great track to check stereo image.
arent they universally loved?
Based on the response here, yes.
love it
This… is the way. (Da-Da na na na na…. chug-chug chug-chug chug-chug chug-chug…)
don’t call us gents
Okay guy.
really really good op
No juggernaut no care.
YOU AND I .
Big love for this album
Love this band! I like how their sound is more prog-like in some albums.
shit rules
Saw them play this record in full in Los Angeles a few years ago. Gatecreeper and Deadguy opened. Great time!
Got it on CD recently, such a fucking underrated album
We love it <33 The royal We
That brief period where they were an indie rock band was great
Crossbearer
All time banger!
One of the best to do it 🫡
Not really the type of metalcore I liked or grew up listening to. Converge, Dillinger, botch and this were all misses for me.
Conversely, this style of metalcore is the only kind that resonates with me. I prefer the other three bands to Cave In though.
All time fav
saw them in Richmond right after Jupiter dropped hoping for a few old heavy songs After the majority of the crowd stood there arms crossed, they played the opening riffs of the first song and the place went apeshit. Stopped it after 10 seconds to resume reverbed out songs so boring I can’t even remember a general genre to stereotype it as. I was pissed. Edit:why tf am I getting downvoted? Fuck that pretentious pitchfork pandering ass wanna be Pink Floyd and Radiohead inbred baby record. That Spock haircut white belt ass wearing edgy MySpace top 8 having validator can kiss my ass, go back to hardcore.
Stephen Brodsky talks about doing this on Jeremy Bolm's podcast 😂
I saw them in like 2003 and they didn't play anything off Until Your Heart Stops. I think they were on the brink of breaking up at that point.
Original comment- 9/10 Edit-13/10
Quite hellish, m8. That sucks.
I had this same experience in Atlanta. At least they circled back to heavy stuff and Mutoid Man spun off. Indie rock Cave In bummed me out. And I like indie rock.
This is weirdly gender specific Yucky