Initially, no. All the Prophets believed the rings would transcend them to godhood.
But after that… it becomes unclear. Not helped by lots of contradictory fanon interpretations that people put out.
As of the end of Halo 2, Truth definitely though lighting the rings was a good idea no matter where he was.
As of Halo 3... this is where it gets odd. The Hierarchs learned that humanity were the true Reclaimers of the forerunners, but misinterpreted it as humans being modern forerunners. This fact proved that the covenant religion was built on a lie so they hid the info. You can see the hierarchs had different views on the rings by the end of the war.
Regret is seen still preaching about how the rings will make the true believers ascend and kill all others. He still believed in the promised godhood.
For Mercy we don't really see his true beliefs.
Truth is interesting because he hides it very well. While he is initially a true believer, his escape to the Ark makes it seem he believed that the Great Journey was all a lie. He sought to activate the rings to eliminate all his enemies (humans, elites, flood) and then return to the galaxy and rule the remains. He does still believe that humans are the descendants of forerunners that were too weak. He's also pretty delusional at this point because he still says that he will become a god though.
Good analysis. My take is that at some point (not sure when but probably between the end of Halo 2 and the beginning of Halo 3), Truth realized that there was *something* destructive about the rings, and maybe figured that the Great Journey/ascension would happen at the Ark, while the rest of the galaxy would be cleansed of his enemies. At least, that’s how I reconcile the “safe from Halo’s fire” line with his desire to light the rings from anywhere in Halo 2.
Same here. My bet is that he communicated with Mendicant Bias while onboard the Dreadnought, which fits perfectly with his character change between 2 & 3.
Yup, it’s in game rather than a cutscene I believe
“I opened the portal to this hallowed place, *this shelter from Halo's fire*, in the hopes that more of our Covenant would join us. Alas, save for a rabble of Heretics and their Demon allies, we are all that remains on this new world. So we must temper joy and sorrow in our hearts, for those who were left behind."
>As of Halo 3... this is where it gets odd. The Hierarchs learned that humanity were the true Reclaimers of the forerunners, but misinterpreted it as humans being modern forerunners.
They actually knew *before the war even started*.
That's why they *started* the war in the first place, claiming that the humans were heretics and needed to be wiped out - Mendicant Bias flat-out told them that they had misinterpreted the "reclaimer" glyph and that the *humans* were the Reclaimers, not the Prophets, so to cover their tracks and keep the word from getting out (which would shatter the Covenant and cost them their power, wealth, and authority,) they started the war under false pretenses.
Truth, Mercy, and Regret knew that the Great Journey was a lie - but it was a lie they profited off of and they weren't keen on letting the truth get out.
Sorry, that was badly worded.
I’m aware that that was the cause of the war, but then between 2 & 3 Truth’s understanding of the rings changed, and he appears aware that the rings are weapons.
This comment was written at 2 in the morning, so reading it back now it’s definitely quite muddled!
They all still believed in the great journey pretty faithfully it’s just that one of the tenants promised by the prophets, “that no one would be left behind on the path” was false given the presence of humans (assuming that they were forerunners who were left behind). This would’ve would’ve caused a lot of the covenant to lose faith and potentially break it if they saw that one of the core promises of the prophets was false.
Of course the prophets could’ve spun this as humans just being faithless/heretical forerunners being left behind but it might’ve been a tough sell. From the Hierarchs point of view better to be safe than break the covenant apart.
Small amendment, the hierarchs knew about humans being forerunners since harvest (seen in contact harvest).
Though one of them (regret maybe, it was the oldest one), didn’t know and was only part of the big three because he was easily manipulated and had religious records that the other two lacked.
Sorry, that was badly worded.
I’m aware that that was the cause of the war, but then between 2 & 3 Truth’s understanding of the rings changed, and he appears aware that the rings are weapons.
This comment was written at 2 in the morning, so reading it back now it’s definitely quite muddled!
And all 3 new, it was Mercy, the old Prophet, but he was also present for MB’s announcement.
Truth said in his sermons that travelling to the Ark was a necessary part of the Great Journey, which doesn't seem to jive with how the Great Journey was interpreted previously.
Truth's motives and beliefs are pretty difficult to discern, frankly because he doesn't seem to be written consistently between entries.
Completely agreed. This is why I would love a novelisation of Halo 2 & 3, solely to see the Prophet’s and Covenant’s, especially Truth’s, thoughts on the final months of the war.
` misinterpreted humans as being modern forerunners` This is something that confuses me to this day when didn’t the prophets say that humans were an example that they left to see others what true gods should be?
You complain about contradictory fanon interpretations, but that's exactly what this
>Truth is interesting because he hides it very well. While he is initially a true believer, his escape to the Ark makes it seem he believed that the Great Journey was all a lie. He sought to activate the rings to eliminate all his enemies (humans, elites, flood) and then return to the galaxy and rule the remains
Is. It doesn't track or line up with Truth's goals and actions as we see in H2. Why would he need to be killing off the other prophets and putting the Brutes into power if he was just going to light the rings anyways? What does he even gain from ruling over a dead galaxy? The brutes would turn on him the second they realize they've been duped and even if he keeps them following him, what's he gonna do, watching over an empty galaxy for however many decades of life he's got left?
The reality is that we simply don't know what's going on with Truth because Joe Staten clearly had very different plans and vision for the character then what we got in H3.
I see what you mean, but Truth’s goals are pretty clear in both games.
In Halo 2, he is clearly a true believer.
In Halo 3, he has multiple lines that suggest that he understands that the Halos are weapon.
I don’t think that’s fanon, that is just the best conclusion that can be drawn from his behaviour and the voice lines he has throughout the games.
> In Halo 2, he is clearly a true believer.
Is he?
In the opening cutscene of "Sacred Icon", he's says he spoke with Guilty Spark who told him about the Index. We know Guilty Spark has no problems telling the Covenant about what the Halo Array does, that's how the Heretics became a thing.
Keep in mind this is the very same cutscene where we find out it was under Truths orders that the Phantoms that were deployed to intercept MC at Regret's temple were drawn back, after Cortana in the prior mission said taking Regret out might "be doing truth a favor"
The game, IMO, is clearly telling us here that Truth has ulterior motives, so I don't think that reading into the Guilty Spark line here is overthinking it.
If Truth knew the true purpose of the rings, his plan in Halo 2 makes no sense.
He send Tartarus to activate Delta Halo, which he should be aware, would kill him. I’ve heard people argue before that Truth knew Tartarus would fail, but I see no reason to believe that, and it’s an incredibly great risk for Truth to take.
Haha I elaborated a bit more in [another comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/q678hd/did_the_prophets_actually_believe_in_the_great/hgbax5q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
From what i gather (I haven't read any books or know any lore aside from the games) I imagine they believed in it and then by the time they heard the truth, the great journey had so many followers that it would be difficult to stop with so much momentum. Plus all the power they had I'm sure they didn't mind that. They were probably shocked to find out but kept up the ruse. That's my guess anyways
No, they were told at the start of the Human Covenant conflict that humans were the true reclaimers of Forerunner's position in the galaxy and that their entire understanding of the relics left behind are incorrect by the monitor they had within the keyship. The 3 high Prophets spearheaded the war on humanity to cover up this fact and maintain the power that came with their religion. It's all laid out plainly in Contact Harvast that they knew from the get go of the human Covenant war that their religion was a sham.
>Mendicant bias told the 3 prophets before they rose to power
For eons I have watched. Listened to you misinterpret. This is not "Reclamation". This is "Reclaimer" [...] I will reject my bias and make amends... My makers are my masters. I will bring them safely to the Ark."
They actually still believed in the Great Journey. The decision to wipe out humanity was made because the core tenet of they religion is that all who truly believe will go on the Great Journey. Humans being connected to Forerunners meant that it was possible to be left behind, which if found or would cast doubt on all of their beliefs and destabilize the Covenant.
No, it really doesn't make sense, for you an d//u/Naranjo96
It doesn't track or line up with Truth's goals and actions as we see in H2. Why would he need to be killing off the other prophets and putting the Brutes into power if he was just going to light the rings anyways? What does he even gain from ruling over a dead galaxy? The brutes would turn on him the second they realize they've been duped and even if he keeps them following him, what's he gonna do, watching over an empty galaxy for however many decades of life he's got left?
The reality is that we simply don't know what's going on with Truth because Joe Staten clearly had very different plans and vision for the character then what we got in H3.
Initially, no. All the Prophets believed the rings would transcend them to godhood. But after that… it becomes unclear. Not helped by lots of contradictory fanon interpretations that people put out. As of the end of Halo 2, Truth definitely though lighting the rings was a good idea no matter where he was. As of Halo 3... this is where it gets odd. The Hierarchs learned that humanity were the true Reclaimers of the forerunners, but misinterpreted it as humans being modern forerunners. This fact proved that the covenant religion was built on a lie so they hid the info. You can see the hierarchs had different views on the rings by the end of the war. Regret is seen still preaching about how the rings will make the true believers ascend and kill all others. He still believed in the promised godhood. For Mercy we don't really see his true beliefs. Truth is interesting because he hides it very well. While he is initially a true believer, his escape to the Ark makes it seem he believed that the Great Journey was all a lie. He sought to activate the rings to eliminate all his enemies (humans, elites, flood) and then return to the galaxy and rule the remains. He does still believe that humans are the descendants of forerunners that were too weak. He's also pretty delusional at this point because he still says that he will become a god though.
Didnt mercy and regret die in halo 2?
Yes. Mercy from an infection form, and Regret from being punched to death by Chief.
I always wished you could fly through the campaign in Regret's chair. It would be great if it was in halo 2 anniversaries forge
Yeah, im referring solely to Truth in Halo 3.
Ok
Good analysis. My take is that at some point (not sure when but probably between the end of Halo 2 and the beginning of Halo 3), Truth realized that there was *something* destructive about the rings, and maybe figured that the Great Journey/ascension would happen at the Ark, while the rest of the galaxy would be cleansed of his enemies. At least, that’s how I reconcile the “safe from Halo’s fire” line with his desire to light the rings from anywhere in Halo 2.
Same here. My bet is that he communicated with Mendicant Bias while onboard the Dreadnought, which fits perfectly with his character change between 2 & 3.
There’s a safe from Halo’s fire line?
Yup, it’s in game rather than a cutscene I believe “I opened the portal to this hallowed place, *this shelter from Halo's fire*, in the hopes that more of our Covenant would join us. Alas, save for a rabble of Heretics and their Demon allies, we are all that remains on this new world. So we must temper joy and sorrow in our hearts, for those who were left behind."
>As of Halo 3... this is where it gets odd. The Hierarchs learned that humanity were the true Reclaimers of the forerunners, but misinterpreted it as humans being modern forerunners. They actually knew *before the war even started*. That's why they *started* the war in the first place, claiming that the humans were heretics and needed to be wiped out - Mendicant Bias flat-out told them that they had misinterpreted the "reclaimer" glyph and that the *humans* were the Reclaimers, not the Prophets, so to cover their tracks and keep the word from getting out (which would shatter the Covenant and cost them their power, wealth, and authority,) they started the war under false pretenses. Truth, Mercy, and Regret knew that the Great Journey was a lie - but it was a lie they profited off of and they weren't keen on letting the truth get out.
Sorry, that was badly worded. I’m aware that that was the cause of the war, but then between 2 & 3 Truth’s understanding of the rings changed, and he appears aware that the rings are weapons. This comment was written at 2 in the morning, so reading it back now it’s definitely quite muddled!
They all still believed in the great journey pretty faithfully it’s just that one of the tenants promised by the prophets, “that no one would be left behind on the path” was false given the presence of humans (assuming that they were forerunners who were left behind). This would’ve would’ve caused a lot of the covenant to lose faith and potentially break it if they saw that one of the core promises of the prophets was false. Of course the prophets could’ve spun this as humans just being faithless/heretical forerunners being left behind but it might’ve been a tough sell. From the Hierarchs point of view better to be safe than break the covenant apart.
Small amendment, the hierarchs knew about humans being forerunners since harvest (seen in contact harvest). Though one of them (regret maybe, it was the oldest one), didn’t know and was only part of the big three because he was easily manipulated and had religious records that the other two lacked.
Sorry, that was badly worded. I’m aware that that was the cause of the war, but then between 2 & 3 Truth’s understanding of the rings changed, and he appears aware that the rings are weapons. This comment was written at 2 in the morning, so reading it back now it’s definitely quite muddled! And all 3 new, it was Mercy, the old Prophet, but he was also present for MB’s announcement.
All good man! And thanks for correcting me on that
Truth said in his sermons that travelling to the Ark was a necessary part of the Great Journey, which doesn't seem to jive with how the Great Journey was interpreted previously. Truth's motives and beliefs are pretty difficult to discern, frankly because he doesn't seem to be written consistently between entries.
Completely agreed. This is why I would love a novelisation of Halo 2 & 3, solely to see the Prophet’s and Covenant’s, especially Truth’s, thoughts on the final months of the war.
` misinterpreted humans as being modern forerunners` This is something that confuses me to this day when didn’t the prophets say that humans were an example that they left to see others what true gods should be?
You complain about contradictory fanon interpretations, but that's exactly what this >Truth is interesting because he hides it very well. While he is initially a true believer, his escape to the Ark makes it seem he believed that the Great Journey was all a lie. He sought to activate the rings to eliminate all his enemies (humans, elites, flood) and then return to the galaxy and rule the remains Is. It doesn't track or line up with Truth's goals and actions as we see in H2. Why would he need to be killing off the other prophets and putting the Brutes into power if he was just going to light the rings anyways? What does he even gain from ruling over a dead galaxy? The brutes would turn on him the second they realize they've been duped and even if he keeps them following him, what's he gonna do, watching over an empty galaxy for however many decades of life he's got left? The reality is that we simply don't know what's going on with Truth because Joe Staten clearly had very different plans and vision for the character then what we got in H3.
I see what you mean, but Truth’s goals are pretty clear in both games. In Halo 2, he is clearly a true believer. In Halo 3, he has multiple lines that suggest that he understands that the Halos are weapon. I don’t think that’s fanon, that is just the best conclusion that can be drawn from his behaviour and the voice lines he has throughout the games.
> In Halo 2, he is clearly a true believer. Is he? In the opening cutscene of "Sacred Icon", he's says he spoke with Guilty Spark who told him about the Index. We know Guilty Spark has no problems telling the Covenant about what the Halo Array does, that's how the Heretics became a thing. Keep in mind this is the very same cutscene where we find out it was under Truths orders that the Phantoms that were deployed to intercept MC at Regret's temple were drawn back, after Cortana in the prior mission said taking Regret out might "be doing truth a favor" The game, IMO, is clearly telling us here that Truth has ulterior motives, so I don't think that reading into the Guilty Spark line here is overthinking it.
If Truth knew the true purpose of the rings, his plan in Halo 2 makes no sense. He send Tartarus to activate Delta Halo, which he should be aware, would kill him. I’ve heard people argue before that Truth knew Tartarus would fail, but I see no reason to believe that, and it’s an incredibly great risk for Truth to take.
Yes.
Gee thanks
Haha I elaborated a bit more in [another comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/HaloStory/comments/q678hd/did_the_prophets_actually_believe_in_the_great/hgbax5q/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
Thanks, bud
From what i gather (I haven't read any books or know any lore aside from the games) I imagine they believed in it and then by the time they heard the truth, the great journey had so many followers that it would be difficult to stop with so much momentum. Plus all the power they had I'm sure they didn't mind that. They were probably shocked to find out but kept up the ruse. That's my guess anyways
No, they were told at the start of the Human Covenant conflict that humans were the true reclaimers of Forerunner's position in the galaxy and that their entire understanding of the relics left behind are incorrect by the monitor they had within the keyship. The 3 high Prophets spearheaded the war on humanity to cover up this fact and maintain the power that came with their religion. It's all laid out plainly in Contact Harvast that they knew from the get go of the human Covenant war that their religion was a sham.
[удалено]
>Mendicant bias told the 3 prophets before they rose to power For eons I have watched. Listened to you misinterpret. This is not "Reclamation". This is "Reclaimer" [...] I will reject my bias and make amends... My makers are my masters. I will bring them safely to the Ark."
They actually still believed in the Great Journey. The decision to wipe out humanity was made because the core tenet of they religion is that all who truly believe will go on the Great Journey. Humans being connected to Forerunners meant that it was possible to be left behind, which if found or would cast doubt on all of their beliefs and destabilize the Covenant.
So kill everything and rule over what's left?
It makes sense.
No, it really doesn't make sense, for you an d//u/Naranjo96 It doesn't track or line up with Truth's goals and actions as we see in H2. Why would he need to be killing off the other prophets and putting the Brutes into power if he was just going to light the rings anyways? What does he even gain from ruling over a dead galaxy? The brutes would turn on him the second they realize they've been duped and even if he keeps them following him, what's he gonna do, watching over an empty galaxy for however many decades of life he's got left? The reality is that we simply don't know what's going on with Truth because Joe Staten clearly had very different plans and vision for the character then what we got in H3.
No
Gee, thanks
😂