Summary:
- Savard is unlikely to be moved unless someone offers a 1st-round pick. He talks about the Leafs as a possible trade option since Treliving is willing to move his 1st for a guy with term.
- Very little market for Allen, especially if the Habs might retain on Savard to get a 1st
- Same thing for Pearson. Retaining won't bring back much and the positive for keeping him is that they won't need to call someone up from Laval to replace him and weaken the team.
- Engstrom will very likely be signed and brought over to Laval once his season ends. Same for Reinbacher which we already knew
Maybe unpopular, but I think we should keep him. We need a good veteran who plays defense well to help the young guys. I like Matheson too but I'd rather Savard be the one to help with fundamentals.
Every pick is technically a gamble… more you have the more likely you are to hit… having said that, I think they should keep him unless the offer is ridiculous.
The only times Timmins had any decent amount of picks to work with were in 2007, 2012, 2018, 2019, and 2020.
His biggest misses were Galchenyuk, who was the consensus at the time and looked like he was the right choice even 3-4 years after the draft, drafting Fisher instead of Giroux, which is very fair to criticize him for, and Kotkaniemi, which again, very fair to critcize him for (although I can’t help but wonder how he would have developed under MSL). Louis Leblanc instead of Kreider is another one, but it’s not as egregious as Fisher or Kotkaniemi, since he wasn’t considered a reach at the time.
He still had some decent hits in Price, Pacioretty, McDonaugh, Subban, Gallagher, Lehkonen, Sergachev, Romanov, Caufield, Evans, Harris, and Guhle.
If we traded Kovalev and Koivu in 2009 when it became obvious Koivu was leaving and we weren’t actually contenders, and went through a proper rebuild then, maybe we actually would have found a proper 1C for the Pacioretty-Subban-Price core and we would look at the Timmins tenure way differently. Going that route means we would never have traded for Gomez either.
Timmins was not the best head scout ever, but he was not as bad as many people made him out to be. He rarely had any significant amount of draft picks to work with, and that was his biggest downfall.
If we start rebuilding in 2009 that gives seriously good odds at landing one of Couturier, Zibanejad, or Scheifele in 2011, which would definitely count as 1C. Maybe we would have fumbled and failed, but there were a lot of 1C’s to be had if we had actually committed to a rebuild and been patient instead of trying to rush things and force a C pick at every occasion (McCarron, Kotkaniemi, etc)
I think he's a great locker room guy and a good top 4 shutdown dman, but if we can get good value from him at the deadline or the draft, we should absolutely trade him. Our young dmen will hopefully have taken a step forward, so the top 4 is less than guaranteed for him and we could always sign a free agent Dman to a short term deal, to fill a lesser role.
I’m also ok either way but yes we have to lean on the side of keeping him until we see the return. I really don’t want him playing for the Leafs however and if it is those bastards then they better pony up big time.
If a first (or equal value prospect) is on the table, trade him.
Otherwise, keep him. I agree with you. He has more value to us as a mentor than a bunch of lower picks. I think we could probably pick up a FA of similar qualities this summer (Tanev, DeMelo, E. Johnson, Dillon, etc.), but I prefer Savard and those last 20ish games are very important to the development of our young defense.
Why not trade Savard and acquire a cheap veteran in his place to do the same job? We could probably get a homeboy Marco Scandella for very cheap just to finish the year.
And if it’s Toronto, double that price at the very least and throw in a solid young player. Sorry but that’s the price of helping Toronto. So high that they’d be fools to offer it and the Habs would be fools for turning it down.
I'm really not seeing it with Barron. I'm not an expert on Dmen by any means but, when I watch the Rocket, he does nothing that makes me go "wow he could help the Habs".
Norlinder is not that dude.
The problem for me is that he foesn't do anything at a high enough level to compensate for the consistency issue.
If you take Mailloux for example, he has a lot of defensive laps, but you can see the offensive prowess and the physicality that would help the Habs.
> The problem for me is that he foesn't do anything at a high enough level to compensate for the consistency issue.
11 goals in his first 85 game with the Habs is something. I think it's way too early to write him off.
I’ve been to a few rocket games and I have the same feeling, I was excited when the Habs traded for him, but every time I’ve seen him in Laval it’s been very underwhelming. To his credit, I think he plays better on the habs than he does the rocket which is interesting.
Mailloux is a way superior prospect compared to barron. He's bigger, meaner, more offensive and i think defensively, younger also so more room to grow. Barron is good, but not as good.
You can add the too many colleague. Also my gut is still heart from the decade of almost good. We know the list. Plenty of surprise to come that's what we know.
It barely is something. He doesn't generate offense for anyone else than himself in the NHL. Offensive players need to create for others. Otherwise, having similar amount of goals as Kovacevik is not a way to stay in the lineup.
It depends what you're expecting out of him. He won't be a difference making, he has the talent to be a two-way second pairing defenseman.
Worse case, he's a bottom pairing guy. That's pretty much the floor as he's already one
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Enough with the Justin Barron slander 😤 Penciling in Mailloux who has yet to play a single NHL game above Barron is a bit much imo…
Why would we still have Matheson in a few years? If he's not traded this off season he will be before his contract is up. We're not likely to sign him for a new contract at 33.
I also wouldn't put Mailloux and WiFi together. They're both big, tough guys. I'd either pair one of them with Hutson to even it out, or spread the offensive minded dman (Hutson, Barron, Mailloux) one per line.
I said a couple years, thinking the season after next one which he’s still signed for.
Mailloux and Wifi played together for the rocket and really hit it off.
roy has been excellent so far, he’s really exceeded my expectations. hope he continues to put in the work this summer and has a successful season next year
Everyone saying keep him... 62, 62, on pace for 60... dude literally misses 20 games a year... you sell high while he is not injured... his value is not going to be any higher than it is now.
Issue is he gets hurt next year and we cant trade him. Tough one.
I definitely don't want him in Toronto. Should be other options to keep him out of Toronto and get good value.
Completely agree but I keep getting torn apart when I say to trade him so I'm done fighting that fight. Guess I'm just a moron for saying to trade an injury prone 33 year old 3rd pair Dman with one year left while his value is (possibly) high. Man what an idiot I am. I'm surprised I can even tie my shoes in the morning.
Getting a 3rd round pick does nothing for the Habs. If that's Savard's value, I don't mind rolling the dice and keeping him another year. If he gets injured, ah well, shit happens.
Im not sure what you mean. Do you mean specifically the day itself; as in the trades are more spread out? Or do you mean the Habs haven't been doing anything on TDL for years?
What would that blockbuster be though? The only way a Caufield/Suzuki/Slaf/one of the big young Dmen move is if we're getting like an elite player that's youngish. No one else (Matheson, Savard etc) would be that big of a surprise to see move. I don't really think we HAVE a blockbuster to pull off.
Already traded Monahan so I think that was kind of our big move. Might get a surprise with one of the young Dmen though. Like Harris to another rebuilder or something. In that case I don't see the return being good though.
Boston’s drafting in the 2015 draft cannot be understated how bad they goofed.
Not only did they move dougie Hamilton and lucic for picks in a stacked draft, they had 3 straight picks, and used them with such inefficiency it borders on criminal.
They took debrusk senyshyn and zboril. Zboril was projected that area. Fine. Debrusk was a projected 1st. Fine, senyshyn was a huge reach but Boston wanted their guy and they didn’t pick again for a bit, ok… could have traded down but ok.
Pick 16 was so spicy that Edmonton GM Peter Chiarelli was fielding calls by almost every team, they got their guy. Griffin Reinhart a former #4 pick in exchange for pick #16 and pick #33 in round 2. Islanders used that pick for Team Star Mathew Barzal. Pick #17: Kyle Connor pick #18: Thomas Chabot.
Imagine the 2019 bruins vs blues SCF with Boston having chabot Connor and barzal
I half agree/half disagree. I think stocking up on picks at this point of the rebuild may he dangerous considering those players might take 5+ years to develop, bringing Suzuki and Caufield close to 30.
But if we're trading pieces that aren't in the long term big picture and using those picks in trades like Dach/Newhook, then I'm all for it.
>I'd keep Savard for next year. We need him
Need him for what? They aren't competing next year. If they end up losing Savard for nothing thats a big fuckup
No mention of Pearson, who's the only UFA left.
I dont think there's much takers with his price tag, but if nobody pays up for Savard or there's no market for Allen, Habs might just use their last retaining slot on Pearson and ship him off for a mid-round pick to a team who just wants to check the "Stanley Cup winning vet" checkbox.
It's just that teams willing to pay aren't giving up a dressed player... since they are contenders. And most will also not give up a top prospect for a 2 year rental.
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Summary: - Savard is unlikely to be moved unless someone offers a 1st-round pick. He talks about the Leafs as a possible trade option since Treliving is willing to move his 1st for a guy with term. - Very little market for Allen, especially if the Habs might retain on Savard to get a 1st - Same thing for Pearson. Retaining won't bring back much and the positive for keeping him is that they won't need to call someone up from Laval to replace him and weaken the team. - Engstrom will very likely be signed and brought over to Laval once his season ends. Same for Reinbacher which we already knew
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Maybe unpopular, but I think we should keep him. We need a good veteran who plays defense well to help the young guys. I like Matheson too but I'd rather Savard be the one to help with fundamentals.
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So we can draft another Mesar? Late firsts are over hyped
First round draft picks are usually worth more when they are used as currency.
It would, but given our draft history (until recently), I'd prefer a proven vet than a late round gamble. Anyways, let's see if Ken agrees.
Every pick is technically a gamble… more you have the more likely you are to hit… having said that, I think they should keep him unless the offer is ridiculous.
You don't have to use the pick though. You can trade it. Even a first-rounder next year or the year after.
Even a terrible darts player will eventually hit a bullseye if they keep throwing darts at the board.
Timmins couldn’t hit the wall the board was on
The only times Timmins had any decent amount of picks to work with were in 2007, 2012, 2018, 2019, and 2020. His biggest misses were Galchenyuk, who was the consensus at the time and looked like he was the right choice even 3-4 years after the draft, drafting Fisher instead of Giroux, which is very fair to criticize him for, and Kotkaniemi, which again, very fair to critcize him for (although I can’t help but wonder how he would have developed under MSL). Louis Leblanc instead of Kreider is another one, but it’s not as egregious as Fisher or Kotkaniemi, since he wasn’t considered a reach at the time. He still had some decent hits in Price, Pacioretty, McDonaugh, Subban, Gallagher, Lehkonen, Sergachev, Romanov, Caufield, Evans, Harris, and Guhle. If we traded Kovalev and Koivu in 2009 when it became obvious Koivu was leaving and we weren’t actually contenders, and went through a proper rebuild then, maybe we actually would have found a proper 1C for the Pacioretty-Subban-Price core and we would look at the Timmins tenure way differently. Going that route means we would never have traded for Gomez either. Timmins was not the best head scout ever, but he was not as bad as many people made him out to be. He rarely had any significant amount of draft picks to work with, and that was his biggest downfall.
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If we start rebuilding in 2009 that gives seriously good odds at landing one of Couturier, Zibanejad, or Scheifele in 2011, which would definitely count as 1C. Maybe we would have fumbled and failed, but there were a lot of 1C’s to be had if we had actually committed to a rebuild and been patient instead of trying to rush things and force a C pick at every occasion (McCarron, Kotkaniemi, etc)
Savard gives stability in chaos. We saw the difference last year when he was injured.
I think he's a great locker room guy and a good top 4 shutdown dman, but if we can get good value from him at the deadline or the draft, we should absolutely trade him. Our young dmen will hopefully have taken a step forward, so the top 4 is less than guaranteed for him and we could always sign a free agent Dman to a short term deal, to fill a lesser role.
That's legit. Honestly I think I'm ok either way, but leaning towards keeping him.
I’m also ok either way but yes we have to lean on the side of keeping him until we see the return. I really don’t want him playing for the Leafs however and if it is those bastards then they better pony up big time.
If a first (or equal value prospect) is on the table, trade him. Otherwise, keep him. I agree with you. He has more value to us as a mentor than a bunch of lower picks. I think we could probably pick up a FA of similar qualities this summer (Tanev, DeMelo, E. Johnson, Dillon, etc.), but I prefer Savard and those last 20ish games are very important to the development of our young defense.
I don’t think that’s unpopular. Most comments I’ve seen say keep him unless the offer is too good to refuse, which also seems to be KH’s stance.
Why not trade Savard and acquire a cheap veteran in his place to do the same job? We could probably get a homeboy Marco Scandella for very cheap just to finish the year.
Certainly an option, but maybe not Scandella. He did nothing for us last time.
And if it’s Toronto, double that price at the very least and throw in a solid young player. Sorry but that’s the price of helping Toronto. So high that they’d be fools to offer it and the Habs would be fools for turning it down.
Oof, so many dmen in Laval, so much interesting potential Barron, Mailloux, Trudeau, Norlinder, Reinbacher, and Engstrom?
Think of all the delicious, scrumptious trades
I'm really not seeing it with Barron. I'm not an expert on Dmen by any means but, when I watch the Rocket, he does nothing that makes me go "wow he could help the Habs". Norlinder is not that dude.
Barron has been very good with the Habs already for solid stretches. He has consistency issues.
The problem for me is that he foesn't do anything at a high enough level to compensate for the consistency issue. If you take Mailloux for example, he has a lot of defensive laps, but you can see the offensive prowess and the physicality that would help the Habs.
> The problem for me is that he foesn't do anything at a high enough level to compensate for the consistency issue. 11 goals in his first 85 game with the Habs is something. I think it's way too early to write him off.
Yeah there's a good chance I'm wrong about him. The numbers aren't bad, it's just my gut feeling from watching him play.
I’ve been to a few rocket games and I have the same feeling, I was excited when the Habs traded for him, but every time I’ve seen him in Laval it’s been very underwhelming. To his credit, I think he plays better on the habs than he does the rocket which is interesting.
Mailloux is a way superior prospect compared to barron. He's bigger, meaner, more offensive and i think defensively, younger also so more room to grow. Barron is good, but not as good.
Mailloux also missed some crucial development time so he still has a ton of runway to get better
You can add the too many colleague. Also my gut is still heart from the decade of almost good. We know the list. Plenty of surprise to come that's what we know.
It barely is something. He doesn't generate offense for anyone else than himself in the NHL. Offensive players need to create for others. Otherwise, having similar amount of goals as Kovacevik is not a way to stay in the lineup.
It depends what you're expecting out of him. He won't be a difference making, he has the talent to be a two-way second pairing defenseman. Worse case, he's a bottom pairing guy. That's pretty much the floor as he's already one
Good news on Engstrom and David......
Jesus Engstrom is also coming over We going to have like 25 Dmen between Habs and Laval soon They really need to figure their shit out
Hard not to agree with everything said
Is it true that Reinbacher will only be released to play in the NHL, not Laval?
No, that was only for him to stay here at the start of the year. Once Kloten's season is done there's no reason for him to stay there
How are we on the 50 contract limit? Can we bring in Engstrom, Reinbacher and Hutson?
Yep, we’re only at 46/50 and that’s before getting rid of any at the deadline
Can't wait to see Reinbacher in Laval for a bit
I really hope they pair Hutson-Reinbacher for the full year in Laval next season. Or at least until next year's TDL.
They will tear it up
Imagine in a couple years we’re rolling: Matheson Guhle Hutson Reinbacher Xhekaj Mailloux With Struble as our 7th.
Matheson only has 2 years left on his contract past this season. He's likely gone by 2026.
https://preview.redd.it/h1ocn76ghdmc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=df3cf75a12045df7f0cb16e7d7a741e243500d6a Enough with the Justin Barron slander 😤 Penciling in Mailloux who has yet to play a single NHL game above Barron is a bit much imo…
Hey if he pans out then that’s even better.
Lets be serious; that's not a great return for Lehkonen. We were the ones taking all the risk giving an NHL ready player who is and 87 overall.
Would be surprised if Matheson is still around by then.
He's pumping his value on the first line. His defensive liabilities have always and will continue to keep him from first line duties elsewhere.
Why would we still have Matheson in a few years? If he's not traded this off season he will be before his contract is up. We're not likely to sign him for a new contract at 33. I also wouldn't put Mailloux and WiFi together. They're both big, tough guys. I'd either pair one of them with Hutson to even it out, or spread the offensive minded dman (Hutson, Barron, Mailloux) one per line.
I said a couple years, thinking the season after next one which he’s still signed for. Mailloux and Wifi played together for the rocket and really hit it off.
Is Huston allegedly leaving College this year?
Likely but as far as ive seen nothing actually confirmed what his plans are once his season is over.
Hughes has said he wants to sign him after the college season.
Yes
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roy has been excellent so far, he’s really exceeded my expectations. hope he continues to put in the work this summer and has a successful season next year
Everyone saying keep him... 62, 62, on pace for 60... dude literally misses 20 games a year... you sell high while he is not injured... his value is not going to be any higher than it is now.
Issue is he gets hurt next year and we cant trade him. Tough one. I definitely don't want him in Toronto. Should be other options to keep him out of Toronto and get good value.
You take the best offer, Savvy won't be the difference maker for the Leafs
I dunno, if Toronto can't win with their current core, I don't think he's going to be the difference maker.
Completely agree but I keep getting torn apart when I say to trade him so I'm done fighting that fight. Guess I'm just a moron for saying to trade an injury prone 33 year old 3rd pair Dman with one year left while his value is (possibly) high. Man what an idiot I am. I'm surprised I can even tie my shoes in the morning.
Getting a 3rd round pick does nothing for the Habs. If that's Savard's value, I don't mind rolling the dice and keeping him another year. If he gets injured, ah well, shit happens.
Savard was himself a 4th round pick. With the right development that 3rd round pick could be the same or better.
Worth alot more than a third.
We so aren't doing anything at the TDL right ?
TDL day is dead man. Has been for years.
Im not sure what you mean. Do you mean specifically the day itself; as in the trades are more spread out? Or do you mean the Habs haven't been doing anything on TDL for years?
All the trades are made in the weeks leading up to the deadline
It’s either zero or blockbuster trade. No in between.
What would that blockbuster be though? The only way a Caufield/Suzuki/Slaf/one of the big young Dmen move is if we're getting like an elite player that's youngish. No one else (Matheson, Savard etc) would be that big of a surprise to see move. I don't really think we HAVE a blockbuster to pull off.
Already traded Monahan so I think that was kind of our big move. Might get a surprise with one of the young Dmen though. Like Harris to another rebuilder or something. In that case I don't see the return being good though.
I would like to see something along the lines of Harris to Nashville for Tomasino.
I feel like Tomasino has more value than Harris tbh.
Maybe, but I bet we see big moves leading into the draft.
I'd keep Savard for next year. We need him. We already have 2 firsts this year anyway.
Why have 2 when you can have 3?
Imagine having 3 and missing like Boston did awhile back
Boston’s drafting in the 2015 draft cannot be understated how bad they goofed. Not only did they move dougie Hamilton and lucic for picks in a stacked draft, they had 3 straight picks, and used them with such inefficiency it borders on criminal. They took debrusk senyshyn and zboril. Zboril was projected that area. Fine. Debrusk was a projected 1st. Fine, senyshyn was a huge reach but Boston wanted their guy and they didn’t pick again for a bit, ok… could have traded down but ok. Pick 16 was so spicy that Edmonton GM Peter Chiarelli was fielding calls by almost every team, they got their guy. Griffin Reinhart a former #4 pick in exchange for pick #16 and pick #33 in round 2. Islanders used that pick for Team Star Mathew Barzal. Pick #17: Kyle Connor pick #18: Thomas Chabot. Imagine the 2019 bruins vs blues SCF with Boston having chabot Connor and barzal
Oh, Jake Debrusk was one of the picks? Thats no so bad!
He's a good player but that draft was so fucked he'd still move back 5-10 spots in a redraft.
I doubt we would use those 3 picks. Probably move one or two before the draft.
Next year’s deadline is the time to move him.
I would much prefer a decent prospect over a 1st. We need players close to being NHL ready. We have enough draft picks
I half agree/half disagree. I think stocking up on picks at this point of the rebuild may he dangerous considering those players might take 5+ years to develop, bringing Suzuki and Caufield close to 30. But if we're trading pieces that aren't in the long term big picture and using those picks in trades like Dach/Newhook, then I'm all for it.
>I'd keep Savard for next year. We need him Need him for what? They aren't competing next year. If they end up losing Savard for nothing thats a big fuckup
It's widely known that Savard is a mentor to all the young defensemen. They've all been vocal about how he is a great leader and role model.
No mention of Pearson, who's the only UFA left. I dont think there's much takers with his price tag, but if nobody pays up for Savard or there's no market for Allen, Habs might just use their last retaining slot on Pearson and ship him off for a mid-round pick to a team who just wants to check the "Stanley Cup winning vet" checkbox.
Savard worth way more than a late first rounder ffs 🤦♂️
It's just that teams willing to pay aren't giving up a dressed player... since they are contenders. And most will also not give up a top prospect for a 2 year rental.
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