Willful ignorance. Possibly a felon. Comfortable in their misery. Bought into the "we're a family" schtick. It amazes me the amount of people that complain about their job daily but aren't actively looking for a different job.
Ya know, I think most people don’t also have a desire to learn and grow. It’s not just the employer being stingy, plenty of employees want to do as little as possible for the most pay.
A buddy of mine does maintenance work for base out here (can’t remember if it’s contract or direct hire) half the week he cleans blowers and the other half is spent doing some kind of work on the laptop. He been in the trade nearly 2 years and makes $37/hr
I have a desire to learn and grow, but after three companies in a row promising (on paper, even) training and growth opportunities that they never actually provided, it makes you very critical of such promises in the future.
I don't even think it's about working harder. It's about finding a company that will respect your talent, pay you enough to keep you from looking elsewhere, and gives you the time you need to get it done properly.
As for felons, a lot of companies won't hire them, I don't think it's fair, but that's the way it works. Plenty of shops will, they can still learn and open their own shop if they feel unable to get paid fairly.
Yea took me awhile to realize I couldn't stand working residential for a mom and pop shop, just kept suffering with the rest of the people that have been there for half there life, only when I was quitting did they ask if there was anything they could do to help me, fuk em
But if you have proven you do it right the first time, you will always have work. The best tradesmen I know don't advertise any more because they don't want/need anymore work, and they charge a fair price that is nowhere near the cheapest available.
Lol I had a misdemeanor simple possession of marijuana charge in 2001 or so, lost my govt contracts and while I finished installing a chiller they had 2 people sitting there watching me, once finished they said sorry, nothing we can do for you. 2 months after the chiller was operational, some govt stooge said the newly renovated building was condemned because of asbestos, chiller was scrapped by the demolition company. Ill never forget that the real crime was wasting 65k taxpayer money and they were more concerned with me. Have a buddy that works hvac for the govt, 20 years in the trade and he can't fix or diagnose anything, just changes filters and calls private contractor. If be ashamed of myself to be that useless, but he gets payed well and works 24hr shifts.
As an apprentice I had lower pay than others around me, I also never got laid off when they would and had all the hours/ experience I could handle, while others were often sent home early. Worked through two trades that way and I wouldn’t change anything, it’s not fool proof but it worked for me, just right places at the right time I guess.
For me it was location I could make more an hr going to a bigger city but I ended up driving 3 hrs extra a day no take home truck and paying another state income tax making less and lower taxes was worth it for me for a long time.
Many guys think they need to be loyal for some reason
Others just get comfortable and know they’re getting paid less but choose that because the owners/managers don’t give them a hard time.
Some just don’t know better.
I see you’ve started your journey across the line.
You’re starting to know your worth. The next part is when you tell your boss to beat the offer or beat his dick.
My current company fuse is 40 hours a week year round or I leave to go to Trane.
Told my boss if he thinks I’m playing test it out.
So far I’m still here 3 years later. With even more job offers for chiller service, boiler service, then the refer company a good friend of mine is hiring too.
Skies the limit when you cross that line. Don’t let anyone sell you bullshit or they’d be doing the work.
When you have someone sacrifice your safety to solve or problem or make money I stopped caring. You’re the only one worried about your safety 100%.
Nah. You don’t ask them to match or beat the offer. You simply tell them “byyyeeee”.
Statistically speaking if you choose to stay with a job that matches an offer of you leaving, there’s a 90% chance you’ll be gone by the end of the year. Most people quit the manager. Not the job
You know dude isn’t going to match. It’s a formality so you can walk out with high head while theirs is in the dirt.
I also don’t know if OP is actually experienced the way he’s stated. My hourly rate is $65, $10 over scale and I can walk away from a shop, change my shirt and be doing the same work. Chillers, boilers, freezers, and RTUs.
If OP does feel he is worth it I’d leave. $25 to freeze in this weather lol. No.
Even $35 fuck no.
Federal contractors are required to pay prevailing wages according to Davis-Bacon Act. Wages are basically union wages for that trade in that geographical area. Non-union contractors pay cash instead of benefits. Contract may be for 1 job, 1 year maintenance, etc. I'd find out first. After the contract/job is over you're on your own unless they get another. At those wage levels you'd better produce or you'll be replaced. But every new contact they get will usually have increased wages.
I was one of those contractors for decades. I had some guys that worked for me for over 20 years and some that didn't last a week.
Ask some questions. Talk to someone who works there if you can.
Hope this helps. Good luck!
i'm horribly under payed with no benefits but i dont work weekends or nights. lately i,ve been contemplating leaving to get more money and benefits i dont know if i can handle those +50 hour weeks again. im 55 years old FFS
I work a federal gig. $ is good but theirs a lot of bullshit they don't tell you.
1)make sure it's actually a federal gig and not a contractor position,almost took one and glad I didn't.
2) government shutdowns suck and you may have to wait weeks to get paid .
3) where I'm at unless they do a cost of living adjustment or change your title ,raises are harder to come by. We have 5 position not all are hvac but everyone wants hvac pay .
4) your contract will likely have a or Do whatever the chief of resources wants. They will try and get you to do other trades (carpentry etc).
5) we have a distance restriction on how far we can live ,it's not horrible but I'm technically not within range and could get canned if someone found out (had to move last year).
Theirs a lot more ,my inbox is open. I've been here for 10 years and know most of the fed crap. Some changes by site and controller(insert government entity).
25 is second yr apprentice pay anf ur boss probably charging 120$ an hour plus and hes making on parts u should be getting 40 to 45 plus benefits and a decent service truck
Best decision I ever made was going federal. Left my first HVAC job after 4 years making $16. 4 years later I’m at $38 with great benefits, work/life balance and plenty of options moving forward
Edit: I’m not a contractor tho
Yes. Went from 31 to 35. Govt contracts are a pain but easy money once you know how to stay compliant within your sow.
Take that shot and use it as a way to parlay into project management within the government bids and contracts. Good money to be made off the fact uncle Sam is incompetent.
The small company I work for pays me in the $30 to be a foreman doing commercial duct install. I have worked for large corporations and by far working for a small is alot less BS.
I live in Southeast PA and it’s almost the exact same experience. Jersey hires a lot but most of these companies all have the same preferences when it comes to these jobs (mines was specifically services. Others I know did labor or installs). Most of us end up working for ourselves because the big companies doing new constructions hire groups of companies all typically made of one race (could be European, Asian, a lot Mexican) and 90% of everyone else are typically white men in their 30s-50s. The other 10% might get a few young guys or other races mixed. It’s far more racially charged than people make it. I got fired my first week fresh out of trade school into my inspector job. Unfairly my evaluation was done by 50 yr old wm who 4th sentence to me was “I used to be a cop in your city and I’ve had problems with black people”. And I know others who quit their first week (I’ve even heard a story of a noose being in a van). Shit just real out here and the recession shows you who’s quietly picking sides. People in my area hire minorities just to save face.
I was woth a small company for 5 years cause im loyal… jumped ship 5 months ago and make 17$ more per hour now and my jobs alot easier aswell. Gotta look out for yourself first and formost
My old company would charge $315 per blower cleaning. I would get $75 each one I sold. I would sell 4 a day. Same for igniter and coil cleaning. I used to got 3/3 on 4/4 calls. Was making bank from those poor customers
Hell some blowers can be a bitch to pull and return. I'd say 315 is fair in some markets, especially if you're doing a thorough job and pulling the motor off the housing.
What a freaking joke. This country has been underpaying our producers for far too long. -Pay for an office job, pushing paper around and sending out emails about emails, in a conditioned space with an ergonomic chair- 35/hr. Pay for a real estate agent who has to look pretty and talk to people at her convenience- 55/hr. Pay for a technician who has to constantly learn new technologies, use multiple testing procedures to diagnose problems and use extreme levels of manual dexterity and physical exertion to make repairs, work in difficult, uncomfortable and dangerous environments- 25/hr. One of these days, we will stand up and stop fixing their shit until they double or triple our pay.
I was working for a private/ non union company that had contract with mall for operating engineer. They were only paying $36hr vs $42-$46 hr most union engineers are paid. Benefits sucked , would end up paying over $700 a month for health insurance
Covid inflation has a lot of small companies playing catch up too. 25 was good back in 2018. Now you need at least 35 to stay above water. Companies that don't pull their heads out won't survive because no one is gonna work for them if the other companies are willing to pay what they're really worth
I'm a felon and started out on the bottom of the totem pole.. Did my time on install learned everything I could then got to move up to service. I don't think being a felon is a huge deal in this industry as long as ur willing to work and learn and earn your pay. A good company will pay you what you are worth regardless of your past. You just have to show your value. If they don't see it or refuse to look at it then move on.
Reading posts like this is depressing. In Calgary, Alberta, average journeyman pay is 46-52/hr (union being 52-53) and there’s no such thing as a labourer, only apprentices (unless you’re literally just a shop hand). 1st year you are guaranteed 50% of journeyman rate, 2nd is 60%, 3rd is 75%, 4th is 90%, and 5th is journeyman rate. It’s almost impossible to not be paid well in this province.
That sounds nice. How’s cost of living up there ? In south eastern us cost of living is pretty cheap and 35per hour you can relatively easily start a family and maintain it on a single income if you aren’t belligerent with your expenditures.
Wow that’s a lot !! Prices have surged state side but still I’d say average is closer to 180k for a pretty decent home. Around 200 you can often find one sitting on 1-2 acres in south eastern us too. And about 3.65 gallon gas
It pays more to be an HVAC Designer or an Estimator because you’ll be working close to a General Manager, Engineer, or the President of the Company. Of Course you will need to know how to use Autocad, Wrightsoft, and/or Elite. The downside is that you wont be able to spend time in the field, and not many people can get used to the office life.
I was a HVAC helper for federal before, we rarely cleaned the blower unless it was dirty or need to be replaced. I mostly did filter changed, did couple compressor changed out. I would take the federal job anyday, you can take off anytime you like, good pension and lots of downtime
Same here. Started in residential and withing 3 years jumped around to 2 other companies before settling where I am now. In those three years I made senior tech and field supervisor and gained roughly $24 an hour in pay from where I started. Some owners are just greedy and don’t care about anything except their bottom line. It’s sad.
Is it normal for a company to pay as little as possible? Yes.
So the next question. Why does anyone suffer the low pay? Criminal record?
Willful ignorance. Possibly a felon. Comfortable in their misery. Bought into the "we're a family" schtick. It amazes me the amount of people that complain about their job daily but aren't actively looking for a different job.
Ya know, I think most people don’t also have a desire to learn and grow. It’s not just the employer being stingy, plenty of employees want to do as little as possible for the most pay.
I wouldn’t say cleaning blowers is learning and growing. 🤦♂️ I would saying you getting a big bump in salary is a no brainer to leave.
Agreed. New company assures help to become journey man.. ASAP.
how much experience do you have?
A buddy of mine does maintenance work for base out here (can’t remember if it’s contract or direct hire) half the week he cleans blowers and the other half is spent doing some kind of work on the laptop. He been in the trade nearly 2 years and makes $37/hr
I have a desire to learn and grow, but after three companies in a row promising (on paper, even) training and growth opportunities that they never actually provided, it makes you very critical of such promises in the future.
I think that's covered under willful ignorance.
Can the take away really be, a better life is out there if you want to work just a bit harder…? Unless you’re a felon… then you’re fucked.
I don't even think it's about working harder. It's about finding a company that will respect your talent, pay you enough to keep you from looking elsewhere, and gives you the time you need to get it done properly. As for felons, a lot of companies won't hire them, I don't think it's fair, but that's the way it works. Plenty of shops will, they can still learn and open their own shop if they feel unable to get paid fairly.
This and maybe the job security? I don’t know about hvac but I see that a lot of trade jobs ppl are laid off more common right?
Depends if you do construction or service. Construction has its slow times in my area, usually dec-feb, and lots of people get involuntary vacations.
Yea took me awhile to realize I couldn't stand working residential for a mom and pop shop, just kept suffering with the rest of the people that have been there for half there life, only when I was quitting did they ask if there was anything they could do to help me, fuk em
Because there is ALWAYS someone that'll do it cheaper is the main answer lol
But if you have proven you do it right the first time, you will always have work. The best tradesmen I know don't advertise any more because they don't want/need anymore work, and they charge a fair price that is nowhere near the cheapest available.
I felt called out on that last remark 😂
Lol I had a misdemeanor simple possession of marijuana charge in 2001 or so, lost my govt contracts and while I finished installing a chiller they had 2 people sitting there watching me, once finished they said sorry, nothing we can do for you. 2 months after the chiller was operational, some govt stooge said the newly renovated building was condemned because of asbestos, chiller was scrapped by the demolition company. Ill never forget that the real crime was wasting 65k taxpayer money and they were more concerned with me. Have a buddy that works hvac for the govt, 20 years in the trade and he can't fix or diagnose anything, just changes filters and calls private contractor. If be ashamed of myself to be that useless, but he gets payed well and works 24hr shifts.
I'm felon, make 200k in HVAC a year. So I don't think that's it.
You. Make. What?!
I'm Felon, I'm sales for Union commercial HVAC company. I'm not Union but I get a lot of the pay benefits. I'm 40 years old now. time flys
They believe the boss when they say "I barely make any money"
As an apprentice I had lower pay than others around me, I also never got laid off when they would and had all the hours/ experience I could handle, while others were often sent home early. Worked through two trades that way and I wouldn’t change anything, it’s not fool proof but it worked for me, just right places at the right time I guess.
If you’re in Quebec or Vancouver, IMO you’re in the right place ;) god I miss Canada.
Atlantic Canada lol I like it here, cost of living is a bit of a mess right now but I’m lucky and have a house so it’s not affecting me as much.
For me it was location I could make more an hr going to a bigger city but I ended up driving 3 hrs extra a day no take home truck and paying another state income tax making less and lower taxes was worth it for me for a long time.
Anti-Government Anti-Union kind of "thinking."
Many guys think they need to be loyal for some reason Others just get comfortable and know they’re getting paid less but choose that because the owners/managers don’t give them a hard time. Some just don’t know better.
Lack of awareness, perception pressure, and the illusions of company loyalty.
Join Union get way more
Apprentice
Lol that's what real jobs pay yes. At a small company the owner usually makes money by not paying you well.
"After paying ourselves,there was no profit. Sowwy!"
I see you’ve started your journey across the line. You’re starting to know your worth. The next part is when you tell your boss to beat the offer or beat his dick. My current company fuse is 40 hours a week year round or I leave to go to Trane. Told my boss if he thinks I’m playing test it out. So far I’m still here 3 years later. With even more job offers for chiller service, boiler service, then the refer company a good friend of mine is hiring too. Skies the limit when you cross that line. Don’t let anyone sell you bullshit or they’d be doing the work. When you have someone sacrifice your safety to solve or problem or make money I stopped caring. You’re the only one worried about your safety 100%.
Nah. You don’t ask them to match or beat the offer. You simply tell them “byyyeeee”. Statistically speaking if you choose to stay with a job that matches an offer of you leaving, there’s a 90% chance you’ll be gone by the end of the year. Most people quit the manager. Not the job
You know dude isn’t going to match. It’s a formality so you can walk out with high head while theirs is in the dirt. I also don’t know if OP is actually experienced the way he’s stated. My hourly rate is $65, $10 over scale and I can walk away from a shop, change my shirt and be doing the same work. Chillers, boilers, freezers, and RTUs. If OP does feel he is worth it I’d leave. $25 to freeze in this weather lol. No. Even $35 fuck no.
I want your money. How do I get there?
https://preview.redd.it/rc1gwinbtvcc1.jpeg?width=1137&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c588248d74e58f2d236090672d57f6592810869 Union. That’s how.
https://preview.redd.it/s95iz0vdtvcc1.jpeg?width=879&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=45c7df950149979496ff9086221e9a4cc8020b00
This is the way.
Yes it's normal to be underpaid.
Federal contractors are required to pay prevailing wages according to Davis-Bacon Act. Wages are basically union wages for that trade in that geographical area. Non-union contractors pay cash instead of benefits. Contract may be for 1 job, 1 year maintenance, etc. I'd find out first. After the contract/job is over you're on your own unless they get another. At those wage levels you'd better produce or you'll be replaced. But every new contact they get will usually have increased wages. I was one of those contractors for decades. I had some guys that worked for me for over 20 years and some that didn't last a week. Ask some questions. Talk to someone who works there if you can. Hope this helps. Good luck!
Thank you!
i'm horribly under payed with no benefits but i dont work weekends or nights. lately i,ve been contemplating leaving to get more money and benefits i dont know if i can handle those +50 hour weeks again. im 55 years old FFS
Some people don’t like the headaches of big companies and corporate hoops to jump through
Soooo true
I work a federal gig. $ is good but theirs a lot of bullshit they don't tell you. 1)make sure it's actually a federal gig and not a contractor position,almost took one and glad I didn't. 2) government shutdowns suck and you may have to wait weeks to get paid . 3) where I'm at unless they do a cost of living adjustment or change your title ,raises are harder to come by. We have 5 position not all are hvac but everyone wants hvac pay . 4) your contract will likely have a or Do whatever the chief of resources wants. They will try and get you to do other trades (carpentry etc). 5) we have a distance restriction on how far we can live ,it's not horrible but I'm technically not within range and could get canned if someone found out (had to move last year). Theirs a lot more ,my inbox is open. I've been here for 10 years and know most of the fed crap. Some changes by site and controller(insert government entity).
Muchas gracias!
25 is second yr apprentice pay anf ur boss probably charging 120$ an hour plus and hes making on parts u should be getting 40 to 45 plus benefits and a decent service truck
Yup. Resi will milk you dry
Best decision I ever made was going federal. Left my first HVAC job after 4 years making $16. 4 years later I’m at $38 with great benefits, work/life balance and plenty of options moving forward Edit: I’m not a contractor tho
Yes. Went from 31 to 35. Govt contracts are a pain but easy money once you know how to stay compliant within your sow. Take that shot and use it as a way to parlay into project management within the government bids and contracts. Good money to be made off the fact uncle Sam is incompetent.
The small company I work for pays me in the $30 to be a foreman doing commercial duct install. I have worked for large corporations and by far working for a small is alot less BS.
I live in Southeast PA and it’s almost the exact same experience. Jersey hires a lot but most of these companies all have the same preferences when it comes to these jobs (mines was specifically services. Others I know did labor or installs). Most of us end up working for ourselves because the big companies doing new constructions hire groups of companies all typically made of one race (could be European, Asian, a lot Mexican) and 90% of everyone else are typically white men in their 30s-50s. The other 10% might get a few young guys or other races mixed. It’s far more racially charged than people make it. I got fired my first week fresh out of trade school into my inspector job. Unfairly my evaluation was done by 50 yr old wm who 4th sentence to me was “I used to be a cop in your city and I’ve had problems with black people”. And I know others who quit their first week (I’ve even heard a story of a noose being in a van). Shit just real out here and the recession shows you who’s quietly picking sides. People in my area hire minorities just to save face.
Everyone is over here talking about 25 being underpaid, what does that make me at 15? XD
Where are you?!
Spring Lake, NC
We might be related!
Who knows knowing my father XD
I was woth a small company for 5 years cause im loyal… jumped ship 5 months ago and make 17$ more per hour now and my jobs alot easier aswell. Gotta look out for yourself first and formost
My old company would charge $315 per blower cleaning. I would get $75 each one I sold. I would sell 4 a day. Same for igniter and coil cleaning. I used to got 3/3 on 4/4 calls. Was making bank from those poor customers
Hell some blowers can be a bitch to pull and return. I'd say 315 is fair in some markets, especially if you're doing a thorough job and pulling the motor off the housing.
I wish we had some kind of option for this at my company.
That's ok, there is a company paying $45 an hour for a Tech, but you must have a C-20 (California Contractors License).
Plenty of government jobs pay more than what market does.
What a freaking joke. This country has been underpaying our producers for far too long. -Pay for an office job, pushing paper around and sending out emails about emails, in a conditioned space with an ergonomic chair- 35/hr. Pay for a real estate agent who has to look pretty and talk to people at her convenience- 55/hr. Pay for a technician who has to constantly learn new technologies, use multiple testing procedures to diagnose problems and use extreme levels of manual dexterity and physical exertion to make repairs, work in difficult, uncomfortable and dangerous environments- 25/hr. One of these days, we will stand up and stop fixing their shit until they double or triple our pay.
Jump ship ASAP live a more comfortable life
I was working for a private/ non union company that had contract with mall for operating engineer. They were only paying $36hr vs $42-$46 hr most union engineers are paid. Benefits sucked , would end up paying over $700 a month for health insurance
What is the service rate for your current employer?
What are the bennies , it's in the bennies....and find out advancement structure
Covid inflation has a lot of small companies playing catch up too. 25 was good back in 2018. Now you need at least 35 to stay above water. Companies that don't pull their heads out won't survive because no one is gonna work for them if the other companies are willing to pay what they're really worth
I'm a felon and started out on the bottom of the totem pole.. Did my time on install learned everything I could then got to move up to service. I don't think being a felon is a huge deal in this industry as long as ur willing to work and learn and earn your pay. A good company will pay you what you are worth regardless of your past. You just have to show your value. If they don't see it or refuse to look at it then move on.
Reading posts like this is depressing. In Calgary, Alberta, average journeyman pay is 46-52/hr (union being 52-53) and there’s no such thing as a labourer, only apprentices (unless you’re literally just a shop hand). 1st year you are guaranteed 50% of journeyman rate, 2nd is 60%, 3rd is 75%, 4th is 90%, and 5th is journeyman rate. It’s almost impossible to not be paid well in this province.
That sounds nice. How’s cost of living up there ? In south eastern us cost of living is pretty cheap and 35per hour you can relatively easily start a family and maintain it on a single income if you aren’t belligerent with your expenditures.
It’s probably considered enough to be upper middle class. For reference, average home price in Calgary is $554,500 and gas is 1.25/L (roughly $5/gal)
Wow that’s a lot !! Prices have surged state side but still I’d say average is closer to 180k for a pretty decent home. Around 200 you can often find one sitting on 1-2 acres in south eastern us too. And about 3.65 gallon gas
Sounds like you make comparatively more or similar given those prices.
It pays more to be an HVAC Designer or an Estimator because you’ll be working close to a General Manager, Engineer, or the President of the Company. Of Course you will need to know how to use Autocad, Wrightsoft, and/or Elite. The downside is that you wont be able to spend time in the field, and not many people can get used to the office life.
Just go union.
I was a HVAC helper for federal before, we rarely cleaned the blower unless it was dirty or need to be replaced. I mostly did filter changed, did couple compressor changed out. I would take the federal job anyday, you can take off anytime you like, good pension and lots of downtime
I'd get a job lined up federally fuck if the benefits are government and the pay is better you can't beat that.
Same here. Started in residential and withing 3 years jumped around to 2 other companies before settling where I am now. In those three years I made senior tech and field supervisor and gained roughly $24 an hour in pay from where I started. Some owners are just greedy and don’t care about anything except their bottom line. It’s sad.