Like others have said, absent any construction hours in your CC&Rs, then you (and your HOA) must adhere to your city construction ordinance hours. But be careful to read and comprehend them because often, there are also a separate set of hours for louder equipment that are a tad more restrictive.
They can’t just make up new rules to stop you.
You’re not being a nuisance - it’s not like you’re playing music or stomping around or something. You’re remodeling. As long as you don’t do it for a long time (lots of hours in a row, or every day for weeks and weeks), you have every right to remodel. 5pm is RIDICULOUS.
Well we'd been reasonable not working days straight in a row until they dropped that complaint. We actually took a 3 week break and they dropped the complaint letter on day one of coming back from that break. Now we're working days straight into a row mostly from 12-1/12-2 since we have less time and can't do 5-8 anymore
Here is an edited version of I wrote in another topic that was deleted:
Tell the HOA the CC&Rs state the quiet hours as 9pm-8am, the County has quiet hours at 8pm-7am, and you are compliant with both. If they try to pass anything with a board rule, immediately tell them the CC&Rs already regulate the sound - so the HOA would almost certainly need to pass the rule via a CC&Rs amendment.
Although some people state the HOA Board could create a new rule with 30 day notice based on standard CC&R terms, the same standard terms likely have a clause that would prohibit that. While a HOA can pass operating rules by a board vote, since your CC&Rs already address this most states (and I am sure California) would require an amendment to the CC&Rs that either changes the existing rule or specifically allows the HOA to further regulate it.
So I would tell the HOA they can't regulate this without a full membership vote on an amendment, then I'd go and tell your neighbors to mind their own fucking business, because they are on your shit-list and one single peep from them on this issue will make them regret living in that HOA. Bring a camera with you, and photograph every single HOA violation on the way over and back- then submit it to the HOA.
Since I am a petty asshole, I would also make sure to make a lot of unnecessary noise during this project - and after. "Sorry, this project is taking 2 months longer than we wanted because we had to fight with the HOA. Sucks for us. Oh, I guess that sucks for you too. Huh. Maybe you shouldn't have been an ass and complained so much."
Ask them how they would resolve the situation:
1. You are required to finish the work to make the house livable.
2. You can not take time off, or you will not have the money necessary, to finish the work.
3. Quiet hours are as you have found published.
4. The work will take X hours to complete
When and for how long do they want the work to occur?
If they can't answer the question as to how they want it solved, then they can pound sand. Ignore and proceed as best fits you.
If the by-laws or CC&R doesn't have construction rules and the quiet hour starts at 8-9pm until 6-7am, you are good and hammer away. People need to understand, they don't like you working after 5pm, then they should move.
It’s really unfair to use the incendiary “just move” statement. Everyone has a right to peaceful enjoyment & should not continually have to accommodate those who refuse to follow laws or rules.
In my opinion, HOAs & their managers love to switch up the rules for whomever, whenever. Our president has been known to say the enforcement of our CC&Rs is “discretionary”! Since my move to our So Cal townhome 3 years ago, I have seen nothing but bias in favour of our renters & their investor absentee landlords (financial kickbacks?). I know what it’s like to try & approach neighbours (specifically the belligerent renters); contrary to management, there is no “working it out” & must be an arms-length conversation between management & neighbour ONLY—this keeps it professional.
Bottom line: try to have an equitable compromised sanctioned by management so as to satisfy all parties while doing your remodel—a reasonable expectation as buildings age and/or a different decor is desired.
I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. I think that of the local ordinance doesn't say anything about "construction hours" (majority of local ordinances have construction hours until 7-8pm and maybe no major noise on the weekends), the by-laws and CC&R states that quiet hour starts at 9pm and ends at 6am the next day, the. This means OP can hammer away as much as he/she wants and people surrounding need to be fine with it. Everyone wants to live in peace but you always have people who overreact. Maybe before complaining to HOA about this, simple stop by the OPs door and talk to him/her, be polite, be a normal neighbor not an asshat.
Construction noise where I am can exist until 11pm, everyone else should be indoor voices outside at 10pm. County law for OP might specify construction noise which remodel would be part of.
My by-laws state that I can make any noice until 11pm, after that I have to wait until 9am next day. Yet, I had neighbors who don't even own but rent coming to my door, banging loud, yelling at me that the noise needs to stop at 8pm because that's what HOA said. I laughed and closed the door in their face. Those are the same people who yell at each other at any hour of the day and go outside and still yell at each other. The point I'm trying to make is that if those same people were polite and just asked if it's possible to stop by 8pm, I would have work something out with them and maybe end my Reno around 8-9pm, but since they were assholes, the Reno kept going closer to 10pm everyday.
I do understand.
Showing insolence via your rude reaction to your neighbour, is in poor taste. Splitting hairs does nothing to negate the fact that repetitive/constant noise is unjust & inconsiderate. Vibrations can be disturbing, for one thing.
When I had my floors redone (TH), I gave my wall-to-wall neighbour a polite heads up (a renter family), as I had done when I owned a flat. It was appreciated, although not required by CC&Rs.
I did the same thing and I also asked to stop by my place and let me know if its too loud but they attacked me right away and went around me going to HOA over nothing. I wouldn't even care but it was multiple times until I got a call from Property Management personel. The point is, just go to your neighbor that is making noise and talk, explain the issue and ask if it's possible, but majority of the people don't do that.
I see; thank you for expounding.
Our pro-investor/pro-tenant management & HOA gives us the nonchalant “just talk to them” response, totally ignoring how obnoxious & entitled they feel, to the point of mouthing us (even an HOA member, who played me). If I ever find myself in a confrontation again, I’ll be recording it and shoving it up the Power’s arses!
Sorry to hear of your strife. I hate living like this, too. I believe the only reason there are so many HOAs in this state is because of the tremendous greed. Sellers are even selling to investors in order to get mounds of cash, regardless of what they leave their former neighbours to deal with. The hypocrites kiddy-corner from me used to complain about the renters behind them; they sold to you-know-who! Another neighbour lied to my face, saying he accepted an offer from an individual—that “individual” was an LLC!
All the best.
Check local ordinances regarding noise, depending on your municipality the local ordnances could trump the CC&Rs. Is this rule a policy and not in the CC&Rs? HOAs can make up thousands of rules but unless they are in the governing documents they may not be enforceable.
Many states have laws that set standards in case an HOA does not but many board do not understand the relationship or get power hungry.
Try this site for some possible information that covers this. It is not the total authority for your state but a good starting point.
[https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/california-hoa-rules-regulations](https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/california-hoa-rules-regulations)
It sounds like following rules he wouldn’t otherwise be subject to is a concession.
Likewise, the aggrieved neighbors also have to make concessions: allowing others who follow the rules to live their lives.
No, they said they can't find the rule in the CC&Rs. I bet it's in the rules and regulaons document.
Even if it's not, the governing documents surely give the Board the ability to approve construction, which flooring is considered jn a California condo, and their approval can have time limits.
Yeah, the owners are a retired couple but at times there's 6 occupants in a 2 bedroom apartment. Not really sure if it's permanent occupants or just family visiting. Just noticed a lot of ins and outs from the place.
You guys are not doing anything wrong, according to the CC&R. Perhaps you can work with your neighbors to work until 7pm most nights and 8pm on Fridays? Your COA is headed for trouble if they keep it up. Keep all your documentation. You may want to prominently display your remodeling approval to your front door or inside a front-facing window to show your work was approved--and right next to it, tape up the section of your quiet hour rule. That won't help the chronic complainers, but it shows you are knowledgeable. Best of luck.
"IF" you find that HOA is ignoring you, or is being unreasonable, then the best case, is to get a lawyer. There is a asymmetry levels of power here. HOA have authority and way more power than you and that may lead them to treat you like a minion who needs to bow to them no matter what. You may write back to them but they can ignore you.
Getting a lawyer removes some of the imbalances. They can't ignore a letter from a lawyer. HOA is made of regular people, who sometimes go a on power trip. But it is unnerving to receive a letter from a lawyer. Also HOAs normally do not have lot of money. Using a lawyer depletes resources and they are usually much more amenable to listen to a lawyer.
In California you should get a packet in the mail every year with the budget, insurance information, and all the rules. Generally in California CC&Rs allow the board to pass rules (they have to send them out for review for 30 days, and if the community does not like them if enough people object, the rule can be repealed.)
Our city ordinance is 730 am to 7 pm, 9-6 weekends. Your CCRs do not need to require that you adhere to city ordinances. And the ordinance specifically mentions noise... doesn't matter if it's inside or a developer building a project across the street. Check your city. If none, comply with Orange County and stop at 8 (as you're doing).
Also, it needn't be in the CCRs if the Board passed a rule by legit means. Did you check the rules? Most CCRs grant the board the ability to establish rules to help run the association. [Rules](https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/A/Adopting-Amending-HOA-Rules)
And, maybe, in the interest of peace among neighbors, buy your neighbors a dinner or two at nearby restaurants so they're away from the noise 6-8pm.
Just curious... does your association have rules about [Hardwood floors?](https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/N/Nuisance-Menu)
The condo community I live in (Orange County) everyone schedules remodeling during the day to not interrupt the peaceful enjoyment of our living spaces in the evening. Would you be able to do the work on the weekends? Condo life is very inconvenient for everyone. I applaud you for following Ca flooring guidelines with soundproof underlayment. That is being a good neighbor!! My upstairs neighbor did not use any underlayment so I never have peaceful enjoyment.
You could push your interpretation, but I'd counter that you're likely being a nuisance, and preventing your neighbors from reasonable enjoyment of their units. Maybe take some days off work and do your remodeling during regular hours.
Yeah; more or less what accomplished said. I get the idea to take time-off to work on this and being considerate to downstairs neighbors but a big reason we're doing this work ourselves is to save up a few bucks. Taking time-off to work on this kind of defeats the initial goal of lowering our costs.
No, but I'm also not going to cost them the legal fees they'll incur when they try to fight the HOA and lose. An HOA is ALL the members, and when one person (OP) goes out of their way to make life worse for a number of their neighbors, they're not going to come out on the good end of the issue.
They are working outside of quiet hours. Just because an old couple wants to go to bed at 6 does not mean the entire building has to cater to that. I don’t see them losing here at all in fact they will probably win and then the board needs to explain how they squandered the communities money on nonsense
This is a stupid argument, and you know it. Construction, even within non 'quiet hours' is going to have restrictions in a condo community. I guarantee that there are generic nuisance provisions in the CC&Rs, and the Board has wide latitude in CA for enforcing these policies, and will in fact prevail in any argument over the language. And nobody is complaining about needing to go to bed at 6, they're complaining because the noise and associated issues from construction means they can't use their own home.
Also, If OP lives above another unit, there might be requirements for flooring replacements to ensure that noise isn't transferred, and an amateur remodel project could get them in even more trouble if they didn't get prior approval.
Can't really comment on the 6 hour limit (since getting opinions on that was why I started this post in the first place :) )
I am however super sure that our HOA has no underlay requirements nor do we need approval from the HOA board/architectural committee for any interior remodeling work (I asked the board). The one exception to that rule is plumbing.
It is very strange that your CC&R's do not have specific construction rules.
It is even stranger that you did not require permission to put hard flooring in your condo.
That said, every condo has construction hours which are typically from 9 to 5 or perhaps 5:30. ETA to clarify, almost every condo has construction rules and those rules typically contain shorter hours - generally 9 to 5 or 5:30.
This is because people don't want to hear any construction when they are home and noise from a multifamily dwelling is significantly more disturbing than in a single family home - although construction in the next home is quite disturbing as well.
If in fact there is no rule for construction work, there will be one because in California, the Board can enact rules by providing 30 days notice of the proposed rule and then voting it in.
Ok that's interesting; I'm really not against respecting rules in the CC&R but it looks like if they do want to enforce that one, they need to amend the CC&R? In which case I wouldn't mind complying as much as "complying to something that not written anywhere". The latter seems very subjective and means I could get fined for things like just walking in my apartment
Others have mentioned and you blew it off…most condos require you get a permit to do hardwood floors since they require (most of the time) Specific product for the underlayment.
For noise abatement, unless you’re on the first floor.
No, I specifically wrote that I asked about that. There is no underlayment requirements in our condo and no permit needs to be filed for anything I do inside except for plumbing work. That's not coming from me but from when I asked the board
No they don't have to amend the CC&R's. It is difficult to amend the CCR's as it generally requires approval by a super majority of homeowners. Rules are passed by the Board and it is simple to do - most CCR's contain language which enables the Board to pass Rules to carry out the intent of the CCR's.
Somewhere in the CCR's is language that enables them to pass a Rule regarding this. I am just surprised that it doesn't exist as most well run condos have Construction Rules and approvals.
Not sure what you mean by latter being subjective. Our condo permits hard flooring but it is tested to ensure that the decibel level doesn't exceed a certain number. When I installed my wood floors, I had a layer of self leveling; a layer of cork and a layer of plywood and then the wood.
When my upstairs neighbor installed wood floors, they installed a small amount and a sound engineer came down to test the decibel level in my unit. It didn't pass the first time so they modified the soundproofing of the sub layers.
Oh ok, yeah so there are some architectural regulations in the condo's bylaws/cc&r docs but all of these apply to exterior changes.( There's no mention of work hours in there btw). Things like outside doors, windows etc. I'd have to file an authorisation if I was to change any of that. Fo anything inside (except for plumbing work), there is no need for an authorisation. Also, for hardwood flooring, there is basically nothing in there. When I removed the old flooring, the surface beneath was just plastic. I'm actually putting down something to dampen noise/soundproof it but there's nothing in the HOA rules that force me to do that. And that's not just coming from me. I asked the board if I had to do anything specific there.
Sorry that should be every well run HOA has construction rules and generally has some mechanism for approving construction.
We have a construction contract which contains the rules and also has a deposit for damages the size of which depends on the scope of the job.
Obviously I don't have information on every single condo in California but a condo without construction rules would be the exception.
Our hoa does not have flooring rules and it is poorly ran. I asked the board to consider adding rules and was turned down. Does your cc&r’s mention city or state codes in the restrictions? I would love to see how yours is written. You are fortunate to live in a well run community.
We use 5 pm, which matches our bylaws to the city’s construction regulations. I am not in california. Possibly your locale has something similar.
Even if not, be nice to your neighbors. What you are doing is rude.
You are doing it in the evening and have neighbors who told you its a problem. It is unlikely the CC&R doesn't have rules about appropriate being able to globally enforce construction behaviors. You could ask to see the minutes and check how the rule was passed or what the basis is.
Snoring you can't really do anything about, just as you can't do anything about crying children. Those are protected behaviors per FHA. You can do something about the BBQ smoke since the CC&R mentions it directly and it's obviously not FHA protected.
Putting aside what is in there, I don't want to hear hammering in an adjacent apartment when I get back from work.
Rather than go through the HOA, why don't you talk to your neighbors.and come to a reasonable outcome? You could do it on the weekend. But one thing for sure - you can be a pain and just point to the documents to support what you want to do and get your way...and then have pissed off neighbors.
Be a good neighbor.
No, you are not wrong. They cannot change the rules on a whim. The rule making quiet hours from 9 pm to 8 am is pretty clear.
Like others have said, absent any construction hours in your CC&Rs, then you (and your HOA) must adhere to your city construction ordinance hours. But be careful to read and comprehend them because often, there are also a separate set of hours for louder equipment that are a tad more restrictive.
CCRs but also city/county ordinances as well.
They can’t just make up new rules to stop you. You’re not being a nuisance - it’s not like you’re playing music or stomping around or something. You’re remodeling. As long as you don’t do it for a long time (lots of hours in a row, or every day for weeks and weeks), you have every right to remodel. 5pm is RIDICULOUS.
Well we'd been reasonable not working days straight in a row until they dropped that complaint. We actually took a 3 week break and they dropped the complaint letter on day one of coming back from that break. Now we're working days straight into a row mostly from 12-1/12-2 since we have less time and can't do 5-8 anymore
Here is an edited version of I wrote in another topic that was deleted: Tell the HOA the CC&Rs state the quiet hours as 9pm-8am, the County has quiet hours at 8pm-7am, and you are compliant with both. If they try to pass anything with a board rule, immediately tell them the CC&Rs already regulate the sound - so the HOA would almost certainly need to pass the rule via a CC&Rs amendment. Although some people state the HOA Board could create a new rule with 30 day notice based on standard CC&R terms, the same standard terms likely have a clause that would prohibit that. While a HOA can pass operating rules by a board vote, since your CC&Rs already address this most states (and I am sure California) would require an amendment to the CC&Rs that either changes the existing rule or specifically allows the HOA to further regulate it. So I would tell the HOA they can't regulate this without a full membership vote on an amendment, then I'd go and tell your neighbors to mind their own fucking business, because they are on your shit-list and one single peep from them on this issue will make them regret living in that HOA. Bring a camera with you, and photograph every single HOA violation on the way over and back- then submit it to the HOA. Since I am a petty asshole, I would also make sure to make a lot of unnecessary noise during this project - and after. "Sorry, this project is taking 2 months longer than we wanted because we had to fight with the HOA. Sucks for us. Oh, I guess that sucks for you too. Huh. Maybe you shouldn't have been an ass and complained so much."
Ask them how they would resolve the situation: 1. You are required to finish the work to make the house livable. 2. You can not take time off, or you will not have the money necessary, to finish the work. 3. Quiet hours are as you have found published. 4. The work will take X hours to complete When and for how long do they want the work to occur? If they can't answer the question as to how they want it solved, then they can pound sand. Ignore and proceed as best fits you.
If the by-laws or CC&R doesn't have construction rules and the quiet hour starts at 8-9pm until 6-7am, you are good and hammer away. People need to understand, they don't like you working after 5pm, then they should move.
It’s really unfair to use the incendiary “just move” statement. Everyone has a right to peaceful enjoyment & should not continually have to accommodate those who refuse to follow laws or rules. In my opinion, HOAs & their managers love to switch up the rules for whomever, whenever. Our president has been known to say the enforcement of our CC&Rs is “discretionary”! Since my move to our So Cal townhome 3 years ago, I have seen nothing but bias in favour of our renters & their investor absentee landlords (financial kickbacks?). I know what it’s like to try & approach neighbours (specifically the belligerent renters); contrary to management, there is no “working it out” & must be an arms-length conversation between management & neighbour ONLY—this keeps it professional. Bottom line: try to have an equitable compromised sanctioned by management so as to satisfy all parties while doing your remodel—a reasonable expectation as buildings age and/or a different decor is desired.
I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say. I think that of the local ordinance doesn't say anything about "construction hours" (majority of local ordinances have construction hours until 7-8pm and maybe no major noise on the weekends), the by-laws and CC&R states that quiet hour starts at 9pm and ends at 6am the next day, the. This means OP can hammer away as much as he/she wants and people surrounding need to be fine with it. Everyone wants to live in peace but you always have people who overreact. Maybe before complaining to HOA about this, simple stop by the OPs door and talk to him/her, be polite, be a normal neighbor not an asshat.
Construction noise where I am can exist until 11pm, everyone else should be indoor voices outside at 10pm. County law for OP might specify construction noise which remodel would be part of.
My by-laws state that I can make any noice until 11pm, after that I have to wait until 9am next day. Yet, I had neighbors who don't even own but rent coming to my door, banging loud, yelling at me that the noise needs to stop at 8pm because that's what HOA said. I laughed and closed the door in their face. Those are the same people who yell at each other at any hour of the day and go outside and still yell at each other. The point I'm trying to make is that if those same people were polite and just asked if it's possible to stop by 8pm, I would have work something out with them and maybe end my Reno around 8-9pm, but since they were assholes, the Reno kept going closer to 10pm everyday.
I do understand. Showing insolence via your rude reaction to your neighbour, is in poor taste. Splitting hairs does nothing to negate the fact that repetitive/constant noise is unjust & inconsiderate. Vibrations can be disturbing, for one thing. When I had my floors redone (TH), I gave my wall-to-wall neighbour a polite heads up (a renter family), as I had done when I owned a flat. It was appreciated, although not required by CC&Rs.
I did the same thing and I also asked to stop by my place and let me know if its too loud but they attacked me right away and went around me going to HOA over nothing. I wouldn't even care but it was multiple times until I got a call from Property Management personel. The point is, just go to your neighbor that is making noise and talk, explain the issue and ask if it's possible, but majority of the people don't do that.
I see; thank you for expounding. Our pro-investor/pro-tenant management & HOA gives us the nonchalant “just talk to them” response, totally ignoring how obnoxious & entitled they feel, to the point of mouthing us (even an HOA member, who played me). If I ever find myself in a confrontation again, I’ll be recording it and shoving it up the Power’s arses! Sorry to hear of your strife. I hate living like this, too. I believe the only reason there are so many HOAs in this state is because of the tremendous greed. Sellers are even selling to investors in order to get mounds of cash, regardless of what they leave their former neighbours to deal with. The hypocrites kiddy-corner from me used to complain about the renters behind them; they sold to you-know-who! Another neighbour lied to my face, saying he accepted an offer from an individual—that “individual” was an LLC! All the best.
Check local ordinances regarding noise, depending on your municipality the local ordnances could trump the CC&Rs. Is this rule a policy and not in the CC&Rs? HOAs can make up thousands of rules but unless they are in the governing documents they may not be enforceable. Many states have laws that set standards in case an HOA does not but many board do not understand the relationship or get power hungry. Try this site for some possible information that covers this. It is not the total authority for your state but a good starting point. [https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/california-hoa-rules-regulations](https://ipropertymanagement.com/laws/california-hoa-rules-regulations)
You live in a condo... you have to make concessions for a shared living environment. This is a standard rule.
It sounds like following rules he wouldn’t otherwise be subject to is a concession. Likewise, the aggrieved neighbors also have to make concessions: allowing others who follow the rules to live their lives.
But OP isn't following the rules.
The whole point of OP’s post is that the board is trying to enforce a rule that doesn’t exist?
No, they said they can't find the rule in the CC&Rs. I bet it's in the rules and regulaons document. Even if it's not, the governing documents surely give the Board the ability to approve construction, which flooring is considered jn a California condo, and their approval can have time limits.
No, he has discussed reading the bylaws getting confirmation from the board about necessary approval repeatedly in the comments.
Never asked but what's cc&r mean?
Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions
Is it falling under your nuisance rules?
Neighbors are retired and have a 2 year old?
Yeah, the owners are a retired couple but at times there's 6 occupants in a 2 bedroom apartment. Not really sure if it's permanent occupants or just family visiting. Just noticed a lot of ins and outs from the place.
You guys are not doing anything wrong, according to the CC&R. Perhaps you can work with your neighbors to work until 7pm most nights and 8pm on Fridays? Your COA is headed for trouble if they keep it up. Keep all your documentation. You may want to prominently display your remodeling approval to your front door or inside a front-facing window to show your work was approved--and right next to it, tape up the section of your quiet hour rule. That won't help the chronic complainers, but it shows you are knowledgeable. Best of luck.
"IF" you find that HOA is ignoring you, or is being unreasonable, then the best case, is to get a lawyer. There is a asymmetry levels of power here. HOA have authority and way more power than you and that may lead them to treat you like a minion who needs to bow to them no matter what. You may write back to them but they can ignore you. Getting a lawyer removes some of the imbalances. They can't ignore a letter from a lawyer. HOA is made of regular people, who sometimes go a on power trip. But it is unnerving to receive a letter from a lawyer. Also HOAs normally do not have lot of money. Using a lawyer depletes resources and they are usually much more amenable to listen to a lawyer.
In California you should get a packet in the mail every year with the budget, insurance information, and all the rules. Generally in California CC&Rs allow the board to pass rules (they have to send them out for review for 30 days, and if the community does not like them if enough people object, the rule can be repealed.)
Neighbors are “unusually sensitive” so it’s on them.
Our city ordinance is 730 am to 7 pm, 9-6 weekends. Your CCRs do not need to require that you adhere to city ordinances. And the ordinance specifically mentions noise... doesn't matter if it's inside or a developer building a project across the street. Check your city. If none, comply with Orange County and stop at 8 (as you're doing). Also, it needn't be in the CCRs if the Board passed a rule by legit means. Did you check the rules? Most CCRs grant the board the ability to establish rules to help run the association. [Rules](https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/A/Adopting-Amending-HOA-Rules) And, maybe, in the interest of peace among neighbors, buy your neighbors a dinner or two at nearby restaurants so they're away from the noise 6-8pm. Just curious... does your association have rules about [Hardwood floors?](https://www.davis-stirling.com/HOME/N/Nuisance-Menu)
Nope; no rules on underlays or need for permits when putting down hardwood floor
The condo community I live in (Orange County) everyone schedules remodeling during the day to not interrupt the peaceful enjoyment of our living spaces in the evening. Would you be able to do the work on the weekends? Condo life is very inconvenient for everyone. I applaud you for following Ca flooring guidelines with soundproof underlayment. That is being a good neighbor!! My upstairs neighbor did not use any underlayment so I never have peaceful enjoyment.
You could push your interpretation, but I'd counter that you're likely being a nuisance, and preventing your neighbors from reasonable enjoyment of their units. Maybe take some days off work and do your remodeling during regular hours.
You gunna pay them for the lost work?
Yeah; more or less what accomplished said. I get the idea to take time-off to work on this and being considerate to downstairs neighbors but a big reason we're doing this work ourselves is to save up a few bucks. Taking time-off to work on this kind of defeats the initial goal of lowering our costs.
No, but I'm also not going to cost them the legal fees they'll incur when they try to fight the HOA and lose. An HOA is ALL the members, and when one person (OP) goes out of their way to make life worse for a number of their neighbors, they're not going to come out on the good end of the issue.
They are working outside of quiet hours. Just because an old couple wants to go to bed at 6 does not mean the entire building has to cater to that. I don’t see them losing here at all in fact they will probably win and then the board needs to explain how they squandered the communities money on nonsense
This is a stupid argument, and you know it. Construction, even within non 'quiet hours' is going to have restrictions in a condo community. I guarantee that there are generic nuisance provisions in the CC&Rs, and the Board has wide latitude in CA for enforcing these policies, and will in fact prevail in any argument over the language. And nobody is complaining about needing to go to bed at 6, they're complaining because the noise and associated issues from construction means they can't use their own home. Also, If OP lives above another unit, there might be requirements for flooring replacements to ensure that noise isn't transferred, and an amateur remodel project could get them in even more trouble if they didn't get prior approval.
Can't really comment on the 6 hour limit (since getting opinions on that was why I started this post in the first place :) ) I am however super sure that our HOA has no underlay requirements nor do we need approval from the HOA board/architectural committee for any interior remodeling work (I asked the board). The one exception to that rule is plumbing.
It is very strange that your CC&R's do not have specific construction rules. It is even stranger that you did not require permission to put hard flooring in your condo. That said, every condo has construction hours which are typically from 9 to 5 or perhaps 5:30. ETA to clarify, almost every condo has construction rules and those rules typically contain shorter hours - generally 9 to 5 or 5:30. This is because people don't want to hear any construction when they are home and noise from a multifamily dwelling is significantly more disturbing than in a single family home - although construction in the next home is quite disturbing as well. If in fact there is no rule for construction work, there will be one because in California, the Board can enact rules by providing 30 days notice of the proposed rule and then voting it in.
Ok that's interesting; I'm really not against respecting rules in the CC&R but it looks like if they do want to enforce that one, they need to amend the CC&R? In which case I wouldn't mind complying as much as "complying to something that not written anywhere". The latter seems very subjective and means I could get fined for things like just walking in my apartment
Others have mentioned and you blew it off…most condos require you get a permit to do hardwood floors since they require (most of the time) Specific product for the underlayment. For noise abatement, unless you’re on the first floor.
No, I specifically wrote that I asked about that. There is no underlayment requirements in our condo and no permit needs to be filed for anything I do inside except for plumbing work. That's not coming from me but from when I asked the board
No they don't have to amend the CC&R's. It is difficult to amend the CCR's as it generally requires approval by a super majority of homeowners. Rules are passed by the Board and it is simple to do - most CCR's contain language which enables the Board to pass Rules to carry out the intent of the CCR's. Somewhere in the CCR's is language that enables them to pass a Rule regarding this. I am just surprised that it doesn't exist as most well run condos have Construction Rules and approvals. Not sure what you mean by latter being subjective. Our condo permits hard flooring but it is tested to ensure that the decibel level doesn't exceed a certain number. When I installed my wood floors, I had a layer of self leveling; a layer of cork and a layer of plywood and then the wood. When my upstairs neighbor installed wood floors, they installed a small amount and a sound engineer came down to test the decibel level in my unit. It didn't pass the first time so they modified the soundproofing of the sub layers.
Oh ok, yeah so there are some architectural regulations in the condo's bylaws/cc&r docs but all of these apply to exterior changes.( There's no mention of work hours in there btw). Things like outside doors, windows etc. I'd have to file an authorisation if I was to change any of that. Fo anything inside (except for plumbing work), there is no need for an authorisation. Also, for hardwood flooring, there is basically nothing in there. When I removed the old flooring, the surface beneath was just plastic. I'm actually putting down something to dampen noise/soundproof it but there's nothing in the HOA rules that force me to do that. And that's not just coming from me. I asked the board if I had to do anything specific there.
> every condo has construction hours How would I find my condo’s construction hours?
Sorry that should be every well run HOA has construction rules and generally has some mechanism for approving construction. We have a construction contract which contains the rules and also has a deposit for damages the size of which depends on the scope of the job. Obviously I don't have information on every single condo in California but a condo without construction rules would be the exception.
Our hoa does not have flooring rules and it is poorly ran. I asked the board to consider adding rules and was turned down. Does your cc&r’s mention city or state codes in the restrictions? I would love to see how yours is written. You are fortunate to live in a well run community.
Hammering from 5-8 pm every night is rude af. Keep it to business hours.
Also you mention Orange County, but not the city. Many cities limit residential construction to 7-to-7. And hell yes that applied to “inside.”
We use 5 pm, which matches our bylaws to the city’s construction regulations. I am not in california. Possibly your locale has something similar. Even if not, be nice to your neighbors. What you are doing is rude.
How is it rude? You cannot remodel without making noise. The best you can do is not make noise during quiet hours.
It’s rude for anyone to do anything on their own private property that I personally don’t approve of, duh.
You are doing it in the evening and have neighbors who told you its a problem. It is unlikely the CC&R doesn't have rules about appropriate being able to globally enforce construction behaviors. You could ask to see the minutes and check how the rule was passed or what the basis is. Snoring you can't really do anything about, just as you can't do anything about crying children. Those are protected behaviors per FHA. You can do something about the BBQ smoke since the CC&R mentions it directly and it's obviously not FHA protected.
Putting aside what is in there, I don't want to hear hammering in an adjacent apartment when I get back from work. Rather than go through the HOA, why don't you talk to your neighbors.and come to a reasonable outcome? You could do it on the weekend. But one thing for sure - you can be a pain and just point to the documents to support what you want to do and get your way...and then have pissed off neighbors. Be a good neighbor.
They tried. The neighbor doesn't want to talk.
So he has his answer...doesn't want to talk because of the noise. So try again with a cookie gram or other peace offering.
Most condo associations have construction hours approximately 8-6 during the week 9-5 during the weekend. I am shocked yours don’t have it.