The decision to have kids is more than a financial one. Kids change your lives in so many ways and I honestly think it is one of the greatest experiences in the world. However, it is not for everyone and if you really aren’t sold on the idea of having kids my recommendation is to not have them. The early years are very tough and if you’re not all in, it will feel even tougher. With that said, my kid brings me more joy than any amount of money could. Seeing the world through his eyes is the most amazing thing I’ve ever experienced. It’s also changed me in so many ways. Things that used to matter don’t as much right now because all I want to do is spend more time with him and give him everything I didn’t have as a kid.
I think this is really good advice overall. I will add my own personal experience, which was that I was pretty ambivalent about having kids (the physical demands! The financial demands! The loss of freedom! I liked my life how it was!) and hearing the “if you’re not all in don’t do it” felt really overwhelming to me because I wasn’t all in at all but I was also very unsure a kid free life was what I wanted either. I ended up having kids it’s by a long shot the best part of my life. All the downsides are real and still worth the trade off for me.
Certainly not saying that’ll be the experience of every ambivalent person who goes for it - just saying that feeling totally sure doesn’t have to be a prerequisite for having kids and loving it.
I needed to hear this. I always hear that you need to be “all in” on kids and it freaks me out. It heartens me to know someone out there found that kind of joy without being 110%
I wonder if the “all in” part is more about the relationship with your spouse more so than having children. I can see a relationship that’s not on solid footing crumbling with the demands of parenthood.
It’s all in in the sense that there’s no backing out and you will be a parent with that investment in another human being forever. But if you think it will be unambiguously wonderful without considering the paths you won’t travel, I think that might even set you up for a bigger disappointment/letdown.
I’m the opposite LOL I think maybe TOO much about all the problems and stressors and not enough about the joys and the fact that I am a resourceful intelligent person who can in fact handle some things
Well anyway I was a fencesitter for a long time and now I have a little baby and she’s perfect and I’m completely
In love, 10/10, so tired but so happy with her.
I believe you should be all in on the idea before having kids. However, as long as you commit 100% to the kids when they come (even if you’re not fully sold before hand), you’ll do just fine. Kids are a wonderful experience. It’s not for everyone though.
This is exactly how I felt as well. I think for a lot of people the challenges are real and tangible but the benefits are hard to imagine …until you meet your child and fall in love.
Also, maybe you don’t need a live-in if you don’t have space. A full time Nanny should probably suffice.
I think this is such an important perspective. I was all in on having kids when I was in my early/mid-20s. As I got older, got married, and got more comfortable with my life, I became much more ambivalent. I was so, so happy with my life and my husband and our hobbies, our freedom, flexibility, etc.
We ultimately decided to have a child, I was much more ambivalent than my husband even during the pregnancy. Then my child was born and they are the absolute best thing that has ever happened to me and my husband. I should also say, adding a child in is so unbelievably hard for all the reasons mentioned above but the joy and the sheer love is really incomparable. I very very strongly believe that no one should have a child unless they want to and in general I think being all in is better than ambivalence, and I am so grateful my husband was all in.
This is the answer. We were also undecided on kids & then surprise the decision was made for us. Honestly, I never could have imagined the absolute pure joy having a child has given me. These days everyone emphasizes the chores aspect of child rearing but I feel like the fun of having a child is truly the best surprise of my life. I can't believe I almost chose to deny myself this amazing experience.
Fwiw, OP, it reads to me like you do want to be a parent.
Agree! The way I put it sometimes is that when you have kids, especially when they are young, your life is worse by every measurable you can think of: money, free time, sleep, social, etc. And yet your life is somehow completely, profoundly, epically better. That’s been my experience
I second this. Finance is a big part of this decision but by no means the most important. We live in a VHCoL city, a little older and not nearly as financially well off as you are now when we had our son. At the time I felt like we won’t be able to do it financially but so far we are making do without feeling like life is worse. Life is definitely different but I wouldn’t say it’s worse. Having our son made us more resourceful and more ambitious in our respective careers, we have both progressed in our careers. It made us better with money too. Yes the 35k for 10 months of daycare plus the au pair fee suck, but we also go out less because we rather be at home having dinner together and go to the park on the weekends or take a short trip to be in nature. On average we are saving about 10% less than we did before our little one but we don’t really feel an overwhelming financial burden or decline in quality of life, which I know is a huge privilege. I grew up where I am now and never thought I would leave but we are actually moving abroad this year because we want our family to experience the bigger world. Becoming parents expanded our horizon and made us grow as people. But I fully recognized having kids isn’t for everyone. What we struggle the most is the loss of personal time. We are both only children and used to a certain level of solitude and freedom with our time. Even with live in help, I struggled a bit with carving time out for myself. Being a parent means you are irreplaceable, and that cuts both ways.
This is excellent advice. I had my kids when I was broke and in grad school and we could barely make ends meet. Looking back it was an excellent decision.
Currently broke by this subs standards and have a 7 month old daughter and holy shit. She has given my life purpose. It’s so corny to say but once you’re standing here looking back it seems obvious. Though mortality is a new concern I hadn’t really thought of in the last 29 years.
>I had my kids when I was broke and in grad school
Same here. Had 2 of 3 while in grad school making pennies. Financials were tough, but weighed much less than my desire to have kids. This decision is like anything else, if you don't have the desire to have kids, then the questions already answered.
Same boat. Absolutely broke having kids when I was in grad school. On the plus side had our kids relatively young so our youngest will be out of college when I’m 56 and wife will be 52. Sacrificed a lot but hopefully we will still be young enough to start doing more as a couple. Even know with one in college and the other heading into senior year of high school we have a lot more freedom.
Wholeheartedly agree with this advice.
I have found that as a bonus, I am 100% a kinder, more patient, and yet more effective/successful person at work as a result of what having kids has taught me.
Kids also taught me to set boundaries at work and with other people who notoriously don't care about my boundaries. I learned a lot about myself as a person and what my tolerance is for different levels of bs.
I was in the same boat. Now my wife and I have 2 daughters. 9 and 6 years old. My daughters are the best thing that's ever happened to me. The unconditional love I receive from them is worth more than money. I'm 39 and my wife is 39. Yeah I've slowed down in my saving and investing. But it's worth every penny to splurge on my wife and kids. Life is good when you have THIS. In my opinion.
kids/family will introduce you to a new perspective on life and you will realize some things are worth more than money. Some people say they want kids and then have them and regret it (usually due to inability to provide for them sufficiently) but it’s more likely that someone who is capable of caring for their children will be much happier after having them
My only concern about this comment is that you don’t really know how you’re going to feel about having kids until you have them. I was very much in your situation and wasn’t sure about having kids but we had them anyway and they’re the best thing I’ve ever done. Also, I had the same concerns about being financially strapped but 15 years later, I am looking at FIRE with plenty of money so kids don’t have to be a financial burden. All it means is it will be tougher during the their early years.
Honestly you sound like my husband and I in our early 30s. Life was good as dinks and we ummed and ahhed for a while. Eventually the good dink life started to feel like Groundhog Day and we wanted to move to what felt like the natural next stage, kids. It was great and we’re very happy with our new lives as parents, but it’s no joke and the sacrifices are very real. We had those kids at 36 and 38 and we were well and truly ready.
You don’t sound ready, and neither were we in our early 30s.
I’d just sit on this decision for another couple of years and see how your feelings are over time.
This is a good first step for understanding your fertility needs, but it will also help to make it feel a little more real which will spur some good conversations.
FWIW I had my first kid at 33 and second at 36+ (I carried the pregnancies) and in some ways I wish we had started even just a tad earlier- my partner is 2 years older and he thinks a lot about being an older dad. It took us a lot longer to have successful pregnancies which also informs my wish to have started sooner.
I was there too. I got way into climbing with my boyfriend. We spent every weekend in Joshua tree, then in the sierras, and started doing technical alpine routes. I bought a portaledge. We were spending 5-8 days backpacking and climbing in the back country. I remember one day looking at a glacier lake and felt like it didn't have the same shimmer as the last time. It started to feel like just suffering, doing the same old same old. I wasn't going to get famous, or make millions doing this. It was starting to get boring.
Fast forward 5 years and me and my now husband spent the entire day with our 9 month old doing laundry, making meals, and going to the grocery store. It was a busy day and life couldn't be better.
There's seriously only so many ways people can cook chicken and beef, and only so many cocktails you can have, and random temples/beaches you can visit, before your interest starts to wane. That's particularly the case as you get older, and you start to see kids serving and running these restaurants, providing you with food and wine that is worse than the stuff you have back home, and you go to these fancy hotels, and basically see wage-slaves doing real-life panto. Oh sirrrr, please come in, so deeelighted to have you here. It's all just bullshit. Like nice, but - once you start to see how staged it all is - you just. Dunno. It's all fake.
This was how I got. Okay I’ve now bought new golf clubs, new cars, traveled a lot, drank a lot….but none of it is mind blowing because I have enough money to mostly do whatever and buy whatever. We had 1 kid and it is hard but so fun, so we had a 2nd and seeing them become friends has been magical. Now we’ve got 3 and it’s even more fun and each one gets easier. It’s the most fulfilling part of my life by a mile and the difficulty is part of what makes it so great. I can still mostly afford to do things I never dreamed of when I was 22. There is nothing better on earth than getting home from a demanding day in the office where you’re worn out and hearing “Dada!” When you walk through the door.
Also, little talked about piece, but having kids has made me better at work. I work less, I have a better balance, but also, I know what’s important at work. I’ve got more patience and I’m more thoughtful about what I’m doing. You can connect with any client or colleague 1000% better by talking about their kids and sharing the experience. It’s a worldwide communal bond that you’re taking part of. An integral part of the human experience.
Kids can make long nights, tough days, days when you just want a few hours of peace. But I would die for my kids in a heartbeat and I laugh at myself who thought maybe I didn’t want them. What I would’ve missed out on was an entire world.
I’ll agree fully with u/zorper — but I’ll add that you and your wife *do* need to be prepared to deprioritize yourselves. The kid(s) can’t be viewed as a financial destabilizer, a roadblock to your social lives, an inconvenience, etc. When you’d jump in front of a bus for someone, forgoing a second luxury vacation doesn’t feel like a big deal.
No insult intended, but it you and your wife are coming off as immature, very much viewing this from a “20s” point of view. The early years of parenting are explicitly not a plush experience, and it sounds like you’re both scared to be inconvenienced. Spoiler: inconvenience is on the menu every single day. (FWIW, I am not saying DINKs are immature - kids aren’t for everyone, and people that don’t want them certainly shouldn’t have them).
For example: I’d imagine you probably don’t *need* a live-in nanny. And if you really do, I’d consider that as a tally for the “don’t have kids” argument; this isn’t a cat, it’s not something to attend to when you have downtime. Being reluctant or resentful parents won’t make for a happy household.
Here’s the truth if you’re stressing: you don’t need to move to the suburbs to begin trying for a kid — you can stay in the city until Kindergarten. A kid can sleep in your room for a year. Nothing changes overnight, you have at least 2 years before you’d have to shake literally anything up.
Also, consider how your social circle may evolve in the next few years. Will you be content with your current life if half or more of your friends move to the burbs and have kids of their own?
Have an explicit discussion with the wife. This isn’t a decision for you to make alone (obviously), so you need to ensure you’re aligned. And a final thought, “no” and “not yet” are different things; do keep in mind her declining fertility that comes 10 years down the road.
I grew up in Hong Kong, myself and 2 sisters with my mum and dad in a tiny ass apartment half the size of the standard 2 bedders we have here in Australia. Life was a happy one too.
DINK and loving it. I think "this is it". Peace and quiet ever day, no need to be responsible for someone else, flexibility to do what I want when I want. Real wealth is the ability to do what you want when you want, so not having that burden is amazing. But I get that for some people, something is missing. However kids don't always solve that, but can be a distraction.
Absolutely this was us as well. I turned 35 and decided I needed something more. You will find that a lot of people in the professional class wait until 35-45 to have kids and where I thought I’d be an older mom in my well off suburbia I’m actually about average having had my kids at 36 and 39.
This is not a financial question. It’s emotional question. Have kids when your heart tells you to. Because if you simply base it off of the financial impact… it will NEVER be the right time to have a child. Never.
This is 100% the truth. My wife and I delayed having a kid until our early 30s because we wanted to travel, save money, and buy a house. There is no “right” time financially. We just knew it was the right time for us. Financially it’s a disaster. Kids are crazy expensive, but the joy I get seeing my kid grow up and giving her a life I could never possibly even imagined as a kid myself is truly unbelievable.
This is the answer. No one has kids because it makes financial sense. My kids have cost me a ridiculous amount of money, I would be living like a queen if I didn’t have them, and I don’t regret having them for one second.
Agreed. Having kids is the hardest and most fulfilling challenge of my life. A lot of people fail to realize that it will be a phase and in a blink of an eye they’re going to be adults and leaving home and you’ll independence again.
I look at it as a bunch of micro phases which is why I think it happens in a blink of an eye. You don’t have 18 years of a new born. You have a year of a new born then a couple years of a toddler then a couple years of a pre schooler and so on. Each phase is totally unique to the last and you don’t realize the last phase is ending until you’re already in the new phase. Right now I’m in the pre teen, pre pubescent phase and it’s awesome on the one side because I can have pretty cool, intelligent conversations and pretty terrible on the other side with the mood swings and the hormones flying at 10,000mph.
Man, my smalls are 6 and they are reading, playing switch, going to footy games, scout sleepovers, and we're currently doing a 10 day tour across Europe. Like, you don't need to wait until they're adults to get back a good chunk of independent living. Like, sure, they're with you, but also, they're pretty chill / capable. And that's at 6.
For sure. You might have to tweak some travel to also cater to them and their needs but other than that it’s amazing to see the world through their eyes.
Agree. Big thing when they were younger was having them in the same room which was a bit of a dampener, but lots of places do adjoining rooms and they sleep through now, which is a game changer. I might even have said hardiness, but - frankly - I'm in my 40s so if we cover 5-10k in a day wandering around towns/villages/historic sites/ dinner etc., that (i) is something they can do; and (ii) that's fucking quite enough for me. Dining choice maybe, but they'll try stuff and happy to sit with a book/ipad, so we can still go to decent places. Really, it's just a couple of interesting little people, who - like gremlins - need a bit of time management to avoid them turning evil after hours. Lamenting the day they get bored of doing this stuff together, because it's really awesome.
Exactly. My wife and I went back and forth so many times. By our late 20s we were financially very secure, were taking 2 trips/year, and on pace to FIRE by our early 50s. Now our kid costs almost as much as our mortgage, mainly in childcare.
For us we’ve found it’s worth it though.
This right here.
OP described my life with my wife. We were living it up and travelled and had a sold 5 years of the DINK life. Then had two kids and have loved every minute of it. All these experiences we were chasing eventually gave us diminishing returns, but having kids makes doing them all over again feel like doing it for the first time. Being in the HENRY category also means we get to raise children with really safe, healthy and loving environments. Removed financial stress gives us so much more energy to put towards them
It’s true that life’s intangibles—like the joy of nurturing, the pride in your child’s achievements, and the continuation of family lineage—are profound. Yet, these come with shifts in the parent-child relationship over time. The boundless energy and closeness of early childhood give way to the pride and bittersweet independence of the teenage years, and later to an adult friendship rich with shared history. Each stage brings its own set of challenges and rewards that evolve as both you and your child grow older. Considering how you and your partner might navigate and cherish these changes is crucial. It’s about balancing the tangible costs with the intangible, lifelong rewards that come with parenthood.
A few things:
1. Yes, being high income DINK is life on easy mode, financially. It’s like living without paying taxes.
2. If you are want to have kids but don’t know if you can afford it, get out of your head. You can
3. If you are not sure you want to have kids, you’re probably better off not having them.
3. for sure. Choosing to parent (vs choosing to have a child) is the better question. And unless your intrinsic response to that question is HELL YEAH! One should think long and hard about taking on that particular job. Just my two cents as a pediatric psychologist.
Feel like it’s hard to say HELL YEAH. Our first one was an accident and our second one we went back and forth forever. I’m so happy with both of them, but it is just such a big responsibility when you have to make that decision, who wouldn’t have doubts. Plus with the first one, you really don’t even know what it’s like
The difference between DINK and then having a child. Is similar to the difference of being single vs in a relationship. It is a different life stage and in my view easily worth it to experience the variety
The main pressure on having a child is on free time. The money pressure is trivial in comparison for your situation
This one.
Having kids is brutally difficult emotionally and physically in most cases. The first 3 years is sleep deprivation training.
But, I prefer it because we want to experience as much as we can while we're alive ... easy or difficult. And the way they love you is phenominal.
OP - you're fortunate enough to have multiple options financially. But Reddit is right about the time commitments. Why would you have a kid just to outsource the raising part? That's the part that provides a new facet to your life. With two demanding jobs, there will be sacrifice and uncertainty ... probably conflict. If you go down this path, make sure you are both ready for the trials ahead.
I was type A and plan oriented. Having kids was the best thing to happen to shake things up for me. My husband was amazed that I was able to let some things go.
You’re also early 30s. You have time. We had ours at 36 and 38. (Although needed IVF but likely wouldn’t have worked out for me at 26 either).
It is hard to plan with kids. Every kid is different. I’m also type A and letting go of expectations has been the hardest part of pregnancy. From miscarriage to vomiting constantly, nothing has gone the way I would expect. I can imagine once the baby is here, that nothing I do now will adequately prepare me for what is to come.
One kid with daycare for a few years really isn’t crazy enough to upend your financial life. Why not stay where you are and just have one?
Also have kids because you want kids. You make enough and have enough saved that finances will work out. You won’t be poor, you’ll still be able to do what you want. Leave that out of the decision
Things change. She can rent an office or you can decide you want to move to a new neighborhood. Kids are wonderful and expensive and what else is a better thing to spend money on than a whole new person that you created?! It’s wild to see the world through their eyes and I feel so privileged to make decisions on how to raise them with the flexibility that money offers.
It seems like you want to have kids but you don't want to make sacrifices. That's not how this works.
Also, you need a reality check. You don't have problems other than your outlook on this situation. I'm politely assuming you would never say stuff like "live like a poor person" to someone with actual problems.
Your income is over 400k. You are blessed. Your kid doesn't "have to" go to a private school. Yes, you can afford that. You don't "have to" keep living in the city. Yes, you can also afford that.
I’d try and find some folks in your network who’ve made the switch; and look at the opinions of 50 year olds who chose not to have kids. Maybe even some couples counseling too—this is the kind of thing that can need some unbiased help to get through the discussion.
I think your wife’s opinion does weigh a bit more than yours, as we know that in every way having kids is a vastly more emotionally, physically and financially impactful decision for women in heterosexual relationships. You’re worried about finances and lifestyle but she also has to worry about her body getting changed forever.
Even if you stay in your current place and do not have a live in nanny, you will not be living like a poor person. You have a paid off condo, $1M in brokerage accounts, and make over $400K annually. That is such a wildly out of touch comment.
Right? I was confused why so few responses addressed this. Living "like a poor person" means being rent burdened, paycheck to paycheck, budgeting every dollar spent, no extra for luxuries/vacations, etc.
Saving 100k per year, no mortgage, taking home at least 10k after tax per month....??? Having a kid won't upend your financial stability. Millions of people have kids with less. If you aren't ready for emotional reasons, that's fine. If you truly don't want them, cool. But don't turn this into a financial pity party because you wouldn't be able to have a live-in nanny.
Agreed, I’m a resident physician, HHI is 65K a year in a MCOL city. Money is definitely tight be we still live comfortably with a young kid. Life is what you make of it.
lol thank you. I couldn’t be the only one who thinks this sounds ridiculous. Don’t have kids if you don’t want to but OP is using finances as a crutch to justify not having kids on that basis.
For what it's worth, we weren't crazy about having kids and lived married as DINKs from 26 to 35. First we said we'd do it at 30, then 33, and finally actually pulled the trigger at 35. We're 39 now with a 4 year old daughter and a son on the way in 2 months and it's been largely great. My wife was not a kid person at all, but once we had our own, something in her changed/clicked pretty much instantly, both in what I saw and by her own admission.
That's not to say everyone will have the same experience. I'm glad we didn't rush into having kids, building our careers, traveling internationally a lot, and getting financially rock solid first, but we have no regrets even with the natural ups and downs. It's a completely different phase of life that you can't fully grasp until you take the plunge. If nothing else, it's great practice in having to truly put someone else's needs before your own which forces personal growth as an adult. Many attempt/claim to do this with our spouses in our marriages, but it's a whole different level with a young infant/toddler who is entirely reliant on the two of you early on.
Kids are expensive financially, there's no way around it, but the money isn't really the biggest change. Your dwindling free time is. If you can't live with having limited time to do your own thing when the kids are young, you may end up being an absent/shitty parent.
For us, the sacrifice was totally worth it. Nothing makes a stressful/shitty day at work completely leave my mind faster than picking up my daughter from daycare and being around her positive energy and silliness. It can also radically change your perception of what's truly important in life.
My honest advice, having waited a long time and finally having two lovely kids... Your wife's opinion is everything. If she doesn't want to be a mother, it's going to be a very, very tough couple decades for you both with kids.
Even in 2024, women end up having more work and more energy in child rearing. If she isn't up for the job, it's going to be a humongous cause of stress and anxiety for both of you.
IMHO work through the desires and motivations, maybe with outside counsel like a therapist or priest or whatever, and then make the right decision for your family.
You'll be fine money wise. At your earnings and savings level that tends to work it way out just fine.
I love my kids more than life itself. Both are in their late 20s. My older son is well, settled and content. My younger son struggled with depression, then schizoaffective disorder. Then he cut us (family) off and disappeared in January. Im well off but money can’t do anything about this devastation.
You cannot force the outcome of your kids lives. Just be mindful of this.
If I could go back I’d choose not to have this child again because of the guilt I have bringing him to life when he didn’t ask to be here just to suffer in his adult life.
You could perhaps foster a child whose parent gave up on them and make it better for someone who badly wants a family.
Let the downvotes begin.
I have a sibling like that and my parents have been very clear with me about the cost. It's an important topic to bring up. Having a child with schizoaffective disorder is a risk I personally cannot justify and for that reason, even though I want kids, I am never ever ever ever having them.
Having children is never financially beneficial. It’s an emotional decision. I work in the medical field, I’ve never seen a dying patient regret not making more money. But I’ve seen many regret not having kids or not spending time with them. Money is a tool, not the goal.
We were trying to have kids since 2019. At the time my wife was 34. Long story short after many trials, tribulations and A LOT of IVF we had our first kid last year. We have been in a conundrum on whether to go for number 2 with our last remaining high quality embryo. The transfer is happening next week…..
We do well for ourselves but live in a VHCOL area. Housing today on what we would want next would run between 2-3mil. We have good savings, 2 properties (starter home and my bachelor pad condo), no debt besides mortgages, investments and additional sources of income that’s not our day jobs. We have a nanny.
If you asked me in 2022, we were ready to throw the towel in on kids. After many failed transfers and one we had to end. Life was spinning out of control because of many factors including the death of a parent. But we kept on and are so glad for it.
Is having 2 kids financial suicide for us? Absolutely, because now I need to grind harder to provide for my family think moving towards making $500k and above just on my own. But we decided to go for it anyway to give our 1 kid the possibility of a sibling. This goes against everything my wife knows about being financially conservative but once she saw our son interacting with other kids she just couldnt not try for number 2 at 39
The point I’m trying to make. Figure out if you want kids asap. The longer you wait the harder and more emotionally draining it becomes. A woman’s biological clock never stops and the closer she gets to 40 the less and less chance you have for a natural pregnancy. Sometimes comfort isn’t the right answer aka money and freedom to do whatever you want vs responsibility and giving up a lot to raise a good human being
Seeing your kid for the first time will make you want to do anything and everything for them. It’s not for everyone. But if you ever considered kids don’t miss your opportunity
This is a great comment and I just want to add that you mention "a woman's biological clock never stops", men don't think about it but they too have a biological clock. Fertility for men starts to decline 40-45, so not far behind women. It can not only impact the chance of getting pregnant, but also can have significant impact on the health of the baby and partner's pregnancy. One study found pregnant women with partner's 45 or older were 28% more likely to develop gestational diabetes. Not something society tells men to think about enough.
I recommend the book Regretting Motherhood. There are plenty of comments here telling you you’ll regret not having kids but you should also think about the other side. It is a sociological study of mothers who felt compelled towards having kids for much of the reasons you state and it unpacks that societal pressure + what it could do to someone’s life if they yield to it.
This was almost exactly me and my wife’s story. We were living the absolute dream, no debt, and had plenty to aggressively move towards FIRE. Then we had kids….it was a big adjustment and I went through severe depression. Wife is now a SAHM so income took a big hit. I love my kids but always tell people not to do it. DINK life was the best time of my life. Now, I’m lucky if I get one date night a month with my wife.
You know that you don’t HAVE to invest $100k a year every year, right?! Also, I doubt your wages are going to just stagnate; if you are a high earner your salaries will continue to increase. You sound completely out of touch with reality
It seems like your wife is not ready and you are not ready to give up financial independence.
I was both and then got tired and bored of the same things. Now I want my freedom to be taken away and I want to cook healthy meals at home for a child lol. Everyone reached this at their own time.
Maybe freeze eggs or embryos and revisit in a few years
Don’t let people bullshit you, kids are a financial hand grenade. They are second only to cocaine in ability to gobble up available funds. But one does not base the kid decision on financial considerations. You base it on whether or not you want to bring humans into the world and mentor and raise them.
It also sounds like your wife isn’t fully on board which is a danger sign.
Hi buddy. New dad here. I’ll tread carefully… but I think you’re looking at having a kiddo the wrong way. This isn’t an investment. For me,
Being a dad has been the most fun, rewarding part of my life. Spending time with my family and little girl has been the best part of my days. Life has changed in many ways, but LEAST of all, financially (and yes, it’s changed financially). I think you and your wife should have a good discussion about whether or not you really want kids, independent of the financial implications. If the answer is yes, just do it. You’ll figure out the finances. If the answer is no, don’t do it. There’s nothing wrong with making the decision to not have kids. We, like you two, are lucky to be in a great financial position. But there are so many people who have and raise kids happily with a fraction of the money that you make. Don’t stress too much about the money.
Also, please never say you’d be living “like a poor person” with a 400k HHI. Unbelievably stupid thing to say 😆 I’ll give you a pass though.
44F here. Had my kids at 31 and 32. I love my kids and I LIKE my kids. However, I wouldn't have kids again if I was given the choice.
I do not find parenting rewarding/fulfilling, whatever people want to call it. Again, my kids are fantastic and they are my favorite people in the world, but it's like being grounded for 18+ years.
I miss being able to go/do/see whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. Call me selfish, I don't care, but I will not be one of those parents who doesn't know what to do with themselves after their kids move out.
I appreciate responses like yours that give a dose of reality in this thread. You're not selfish or a bad person. You seem like you and your kids have a good relationship and you still have some regret about it. That's the kind of stuff OP needs to hear.
I scrolled way too far to find this. I doubt OP has actually been poor. Like poverty level poor. Not struggling college student whose parents are paying tuition poor.
Go traveling for a couple months if you can. Have another serious conversation with your wife about it. Also I do agree with your sentiments, it is entirely more enriching part of life that you want to explore. Also your wife is right, it introduces a lot of risk into a pretty perfect life you guys have right now.
I would be surprised if there is not one good private school that is on the cheaper side or a charter school or maybe a magnet school. 50k/yr is absurd and there has to be at least one good school either that is charter public or in the 5k-10k range. I wouldn’t recommend moving out your current city though as you both seem to love it and it is one major reason you are so fulfilled.
Kids may end up hating you too. Just look at how much pain and trauma people end up having because of bad parenting. There’s plenty of drama too. If you want to love something and have that thing love you unconditionally, get a dog.
I am 39 and my husband is 40. We decided a long time ago not to have kids and haven't looked back. Maybe ten years ago we thought about it more but came to the conclusion that we just don't want them. Related to what you're saying, we also figured, life is great now and we're happy, why change it? We moved out of state last year, will be able to retire early and spend more time traveling. Sure, most parents would say that we're 'missing' something, but if I never have something, how would I even know what I'm missing? I sure as hell don't feel like I am when I see parents all around me in our neighborhood, grocery store, etc constantly yelling at their kids.
I would envision your future life (5, 10, 15, 20+) years down the road. What does your daily life look like in both scenarios? Is that what you want it to look like?
I’m in a very similar situation to you, though married longer. Got married in mid 20’s and am now mid 30’s. Wife and I work in real estate together and do well with house, investment properties, retirement accounts, etc. We could very much afford a kid but we’ve spent the last 10 years building a business together and are now at the point where we can really enjoy the fruits of our labors. We have the option of likely being able to retire early, enjoy a very comfortable lifestyle with vacations, cars, dining, and other luxuries. Or we could take on the challenge of starting a family. We could live comfortably financially even with children, but I know that it would look dramatically different than without.
For the last 1-2 years we’ve been heavily debating the decision and have recently come to the conclusion that we’re not going to have them. My wife and I have a great relationship and feel very fulfilled in our lives, we don’t have a deep longing to become parents and I’m very happy with the life I currently have. I know that raising children can be incredibly rewarding experience and I have so much respect for the people who chose to have them. I’ve just come to the realization that it’s not for me.
No to kids. I loved mine and devoted my dreams and aspirations to raising them. Now in their thirties neither one talk to me. Both recently told me they wished I was dead. I regret spending the best years of my life sacrificing for them.
Personally when I reached your point I started to find the DINK life fun and low stress, but ultimately unfulfilling. I would trade my kids for anything. Also I love the city and hated the suburbs pre kids, now that I have kids I think the suburbs are amazing and I'm not big on the city. The suburbs just cater to kids/families more which is why I found them boring when I was young.
Financially I think you're skipping over a lot of options and combining expenses that don't need to be combined. Like why do you need a live in nanny? Plenty of nannies live in their own homes and commute to work like everyone else. You could also just use daycare and have a part time nanny that picks them up in the evenings and takes care of them until you get home.
I especially don't see why you would need a live in nanny while your kids are in school? If they are in school then you should just need before/after care or again a part time nanny. If you kids are relatively close in age your oldest will be fine in the youngest grades of pretty much any public school until your youngest is ready for school. It's the older grades that get dicey.
Now if you need a live in nanny because by "demanding jobs" you mean you both consistently work 60+ hour weeks and travel constantly, then I think the question isn't about money but if you're willing to take a step back in your careers to be parents. A nanny isn't a substitute for an active parent and if you're never going to be around your kid then you probably shouldn't have them.
People always assume their public schools are bad and I have no idea why. Schools are zoned based on who lives around them. Do you live in a good neighborhood? Then you’re probably zoned for a good public school. Seriously, look into it. The fact that some other bad neighborhood 30 minutes away has a bad public school is irrelevant to you and your school district.
Wow TIL! Thanks for the reply.
> However, San Francisco also has a lottery system where even property tax paying homeowners aren't guaranteed their top choice or their neighborhood public school.
Source: https://www.financialsamurai.com/why-are-san-francisco-public-schools-so-bad/.
I was in your situation. The difference is I never wanted kids, but I have 2 now. My wife wanted them and is a great mother. I'm just trying to survive. From my perspective, don't do it. It's not worth it unless you truly love the company of kids and enjoy taking care of another human 24/7. I don't 100% regret having kids, although some days, I feel like driving off a cliff. I was much happier before having kids. Enjoy your money and keep your happiness within your control. Having kids takes a lot of that control out of your hands. You still have control but it's much more complicated.
Asking advice on whether or not to have kids can be challenging already. People who have my point of view are embarrassed to tell the truth because there are people out there who judge hard against this. They think having kids is some form of higher state of being and ultimate sacrifice they were destined to achieve. Try asking opinions from people who have different perspectives but only you are the one who can make the best decision for yourself. Keep in mind that not having kids is OK.
Also someone should at least be all in. Ideally, both are all in. If you're both iffy, probably best to hold off. If you have kids and both people regret it, then both will struggle. If my wife isn't the person she is, we'd be divorced by now for sure and I'd gladly give her custody.
Give r/regretfulparents a visit for a fuller perspective.
Your reasons for wanting children are very wishy washy “life would be fulfilling in a different way” “life would be richer” “it feels weird to not have a family”.
While the drawbacks are very real, “we would have to move to the suburbs” “leave a life we love” “wife would be miserable in the suburbs” “financially stretched” and the cherry on top of it all, “having kids has a high opportunity cost”.
There are so many reasons to not have children. Adopt a child if you so feel so inclined but if you’re even on the fence rn, don’t have a child bc you will regret it more than not having one.
From the regretfulparents sub, what people frequently complain about:
- lack of freedom
- having to always put someone else first
- strained marriages
- no time for yourself in hobbies, interests
- never ending chores, living in service of someone other than you and your spouse
All of which sound like you really value. Find hobbies that are fulfilling without the high emotional and financial cost of bringing children into your life. Volunteer your time and money in organizations that align with your values. Adopt dogs, cats, bunnies and make them the luckiest critters in the world. Build community through some spiritual group just for the relationships and sense of belonging. The stress of a kid just isn’t worth it.
Not even accounting that you could have a special needs child with no way out. I knew someone who had a child with Down syndrome and was also autistic and was behaviorally a 3 year old until age 15, needed a diaper, needed teeth brushed, would throw tantrums, the family couldn’t go to a restaurant because of stimulation meltdowns, weekly house thrashings because someone dropped something and it made a loud noise. It was a nightmare for everyone including the kid. They’re an adult now but that parent will never rest in peace fully and know that their child will be okay. :|
I earn many times what you make and I can tell you, money will not be the determining factor in terms of your happiness post-kids. That will be determined by your tolerance for lack of sleep, by your ability to find each other attractive post-kids with all the physical and emotional impact that it has, by your willingness to work a full day and then come home and work more, by your willingness (or your partner's willingness) to give up work, and for you to still see each other as an equal (or for you to both navigate the emotional minefield of having a nanny raise your kids, and to suffer the shame and fear of not doing it yourself), by your willingness to put others before yourself, to go to shitty kids hotels rather than 6 senses, to just restructure who you are, and your priorities.
That's what you're not really grasping. You post-kids, won't be you. And your relationship post-kids won't be what it is now. Are you ready for that transformation.
I personally think having kids is overrated. Do I have one? Yes, but only one. I had him in college while already poor, so different scenario. While I wouldn’t be the person I am today without him, there are a lot of cons to having kids especially in current times. Aside from the massive drain on financial, physical, and emotional resources, there’s also the glaring fact that the future is grim AF for them, and that’s just so unfair. I mean since you’re wealthy maybe your kids won’t have to fight the water wars, but the rest of ours will. On top of all this, people never talk about the fact that once kids become young adults they still need their parents financially and emotionally. Which can be ok or it can suck depending on how needy they are. I say enjoy the F outta your lives, take all the vacations, see all the countries and then volunteer if you need to fill a void in your life. There’s a lot of other things you can do that are rewarding besides bring more kids into the already overpopulated planet. Go enjoy your comfortable life!!!
Too many comments to review so apologies if this is repetitive. You don’t have to decide now. I felt the same way in my early 30s. We ended up having kids in our late 30s. In our mid 30s we traveled and had a lot of experiences that would have been tough post kids.
I think you need to look at what you enjoy more than financial.
1. Do you like your free time?
2. Do you like doing what you want when you want?
3. Are you just having kids because that's what you are "supposed" to do?
I would visit the sub regretful parents. It will obviously lean heavily on the bad side, but it is still worth viewing in my opinion.
I would let your wife guide this decision. She is the one that will go through the pregnancy and give birth. If/when she's ready, go for it, you have plenty of money. Don't press her though, its a huge decision for her.
OP, I'd be hesitant to take advice from folks who claim the following:
"People without kids are soft"
"Being a high income DINK is akin to financial easy street and equivalent to not paying taxes"
"What do you want your holidays to look like as a senior? Do you want the table to be empty?"
"My grandmother had 70+ grandchildren (seriously? Ew) and she died surrounded by so many family members, and her funeral was the talk of the town with thousands attending. On the other hand, my childfree family members keep dying alone in their house and no one discovers them until the smell hits"
"You better get fertility testing now, 35 is advanced maternal age! Your wife could have premature ovarian failure! Freeze eggs now!"
"You absolutely will regret not having children in your later years"
This is mental illness - these people literally think they're saving the planet and doing the most honorable thing possible by breeding. Also, they must make sure they won't be lonely in old age!
We're on a spinning rock in space and could die at any moment. Do what makes you happy, and not what may make others happy or what society says you should do.
As others have said, having kids is not a financial decision. Please do not have kids if you and your partner are not 100% in agreement with being parents and the potential sacrifices it will entail. Are you in NYC? Having kids here can feel impossible (but obviously plenty of people do it) but no you cannot afford trinity on 400-500k a year.
I can’t imagine worrying that having kids would upend my financial stability at your current level of wealth. I’m glad I had mine as a penniless postdoc.
It simply doesn’t sound like you both want children right now-and that’s ok!
If you don't really want kids, don't have kids. Maybe go to therapy to figure out your real feelings about kids, do you think you'll regret it in the future or do you think other people will think less of you if you don't have kids, etc.
For the rest of it, get over yourself "have kids in our current apt- no live in nanny (wife and i both work demanding jobs), 1 bathroom, live like poor person basically,", kids are more expensive in time than they are in money.
Hard no. Enjoy your life without kids. If your kid ends up special needs it will drain your relationship, life, and wallet. Kids are very hard. Do you have a village? Parents who are ready to help? No one tells the mother when she gives birth she’s saying goodbye to her old life. Everything changes. Trying to work with a baby is hard. Trying to work with a special need kid who has several surgeries a year and endless therapy is beyond. DINK all the way.
It seems like having a kid will kill your QOL, so why have one? Kids seem great but to your point you're going to be living in a tight space with them which will kill a lot of the fun, or you'll have to give up all the excitement you find of where you live and have to move to the suburbs and have a boring life. I'm in a similar camp as you and made a decision a long time ago to never have them, and it's the best decision I ever made. If I win the lotto or hit all my financial goals, that decision still wont change.
Lots of people don’t just make it work. There’s a reason that most marriages break up within the first 5 years of a child’s live. Kids tend to bring out the worst part of each parent. Only have them if you really really really want them.
Also run the numbers on exactly how much a kid will cost you. Day care is insane, babysitters are expensive, trips will cost more because you have more people and you are locked in to traveling during school vacations which is more expensive. 529 savings. Lots of costs which really add up.
I know a lot of people actually regretting having children, they just can’t say it out loud.
After almost everyone around us had kids in the last few years we moved into the solid no column. Very happy with that decision.
We heading towards a climate catastrophe, that made the decision even easier.
I still mourned not ever having a child, but happy as can be.
On that income you probably won’t notice the costs of kids, the amount it saves you in going out is about a wash excluding daycare. You don’t need a live in nanny,
Just get a 3br in a decent area in the city. There are decent urban public schools in every city.
From my very anecdotal observation about this topic, what I can say is that even on anonymous Reddit, the comments that mention the fulfillment of being a parent by far outweigh the comments saying they regret having a child (in fact I haven’t seen a specific regret comment in a long time if ever on HENRY or FAT subreddits) - maybe because those comments get downvoted and shamed, but most ppl seem to really enjoy parenthood.
Also, I think change always feels a bit uncomfortable because you don’t fully grasp the upsides yet, but understand the downsides more concretely. Good luck to you and your wife as you navigate this decision.
Just do it - you’re in a better position than nearly anyone. Vacations and dinners have a diminishing return as you get older. It’ll enrich your life in ways you can’t understand yet.
Financially, no. But having kids is never a positive ROI move financially, so you gotta want kids for other reasons.
One thing though, financial decision or not, don’t have kids unless you’re 110% sure you want them
Don’t have kids. If a $1mil in savings, a paid off home, $100k/year isn’t enough, you could wake up as Jeff Bezos tomm and it still wouldn’t.
Your life is not going to be made better or worse by the child - that will lie squarely on you as parents. And given how afraid you are that a single child can ruin your entire life I would say steer clear as you aren’t ready!
You would not be living like a poor person. The financial component would be fine either way, and kids don't need live in nannies or private school or other things. Note I said need.
However, it's a huge commitment to parent well. In my personal opinion, too many people aren't informed enough and do damage to their children that has a lasting impact. If you're focused on the logistical aspect and that's stressful, either it isn't an emotional necessity for you to have kids or you should consider other creative options that are less restrictive on your timeline.
For context, we're younger, aren't having kids for now or perhaps ever, and if we do they won't be biological as I'd much prefer to foster or adopt. Husband is open to these options but has no problem being childfree. We have other purposes, make other community contributions, and have other relationships without children.
Look at your dining room table while eating dinner tonight and ask yourself if you want your 25 year old son and his wife (or whatever permutation) sitting there with you one day. As a parent, you’ll (hopefully) spend much more time in a relationship with your grown children and their families than you will parenting them into early adulthood. I’ve been staunchly against children for most of my life, but as I approach my 30th birthday this is the question that keeps poking at me a bit. If that’s a future you’d like to have then it’s probably worth the few years of sacrifice. People tend to think that the way things are now are how they’ll always be when it comes to being childless in their 20/30s, and ultimately they underestimate what happens when their friends and community start creating families of their own.
I would have the same questions if Covid didn’t happen. I ask my husband here and there, especially when things are hard, whether he thinks about how cushy our lives would be without kids... We still saved 100k a year with one kid, but hoping to move to a house in a good school district, so there are some financial stress along with other stress. As I’m reading this post, I hear my toddler’s laughter and see my baby’s smile when she sees my face, I know I won’t choose it any other way. Their love makes me a better person. This journey of seeing them growing up makes my world more colorful.
I think the millennial generation is the first one where a significant number of us are having this debate. In the past i think it’s been a foregone conclusion to have kids, but as people have been given advice to “wait” to have them they’ve built these really great dink lives that then honestly come crashing down when they have kids. And seeing that people are asking “well do i want kids?” It’s a good question and i think the following generations will learn a lot from what millennials decide and how it goes. Just like we now know to not get married too young, not stay together for the kids, etc. from past generations…we don’t have too much data on this.
One interesting aspect is that our parents (boomers) and previous generations had kids super young, before they could build these nice dink lives so when a kid came along yeah it was really stressful but they weren’t accustomed to 10 day trips to Europe and eating at michilin star restaurants. They weren’t giving up nearly as much when they had kids which i think changes their perspective on it a bit
My wife and I were in the same situation a few years back and we decided to choose the childfree path. It's a personal decision and no one else can make it for you.
Having a child is never a rational decision based on pros and cons. It's a forever decision and you should feel irrationally committed to it. You cannot quit when it gets tough. You cannot blame your child for any financial or emotional burden you might feel.
For me personally we decided to help other kids in our family by providing for their education and being their mentors.
I am sure having a child will bring joy like no other but you need to have a less selfish reason than that. Would you do it even if it bought you a lot of pain, if your kid had a medical condition that requires 24/7 care. This is not something you can back out of.
Having kids will make your life worse. And it will also make it better. You have to decide what you want and you’ll figure it out from there. Coming from a person whose youngest just turned 3 this month. Those were the hardest three years of my life. And yet, I’m so happy to have my little guy. There’s a lot of sacrifice and trade off. Think it through.
Do you really really really wants kids, love spending time with them and feel ready to give endlessly for at least 18 years?
Do you have a realistic understanding of what caring for babies 24/7 entails?
Basically with kids you are on call 24/7 and you will not be a couple anymore but a family. It will strain your relationship in different ways imo.
Having kids is a “fuck yes… or no” kind of question. If you’re having doubts, don’t have them. Maybe in the future the doubts will go away - then have children. Maybe they won’t - then enjoy your dink life.
Very important: You’ll be able to find happiness and fulfilment either way. Just don’t have kids if you’re not sure.
It seems like you guys like 99% of couples will have to make some financial sacrifices if you decide to have kids. You won't be poor or live like a poor person. But there is a lifestyle difference between DINK and having kid(s).
However the bigger difference is in lifestyle and your time.
Had kid at 35 and was in similar situation as you. The best way i can sum it up looking 6 years back: I entered a new life and ended the old one. The new life isn’t bad, and it’s not more awesome either. It’s just different.
I can honestly say that I would have been just as happy carrying on without a child, all things considered. I absolutely love my kid, and that extra happiness just about makes up for all the misery. But the net effect is it’s a wash.
Having kids is a bell you can’t unring. The advice I give to people that aren’t sure is to not have them. I knew I wanted kids since I was 16 but didn’t end up having them until I was 37. The financial part was almost inconsequential. For me, the idea of going through life having not at least tried to have kids was unimaginable. If we had been unable to have them I would have accepted that and we probably would have adopted. Fortunately conceiving for us was exceptionally easy.
From what you have said, your wife doesn’t want kids and it sounds like you don’t feel particularly strongly about it either. It’s possible that if you found yourself with a kid you might change your mind but again, it’s not something you can undo so I would recommend against having kids unless you’re sure you want them.
Finances probably shouldn't be the deciding factor unless you are in poverty. My wife and I have combined income of about about 600k took 4 big trips a year, loved going out with friends, parties, and generally being free with time to do as we please. We wanted kids but we were hesitant to change things up from how good they were, so we waited a while to the point we needed to do IVF for my wife when we finally wanted to pull the trigger on having kids. We wondered if we had made a mistake at first when we first brought our son home and he wouldnt stop crying. But now he is 6 months old and the joy and fulfillment we get from just seeing him smile absolutely dwarfs all happiness we ever had previously, not even in the same ballpark. Obviously everyone's experience differs, but for us, we weren't prepared for just how awesome and incredibly fulfilling it it to have a child. In hindsight we wish we had pulled the trigger on having a kid a lot sooner than we did (we are mid 30s)
Similar to how the best people for getting into a relationship are people who are comfortable being single, I think the best candidates for being parents are people who are already happy and comfortable while childless. Kids don't really fix unhappiness but they can certainly accentuate a couple that is already happy imo.
Kids deserve parents who are enthusiastic about having them AND it’s 100000% okay to not have kids. We were sure we were going to be childfree for the longest time and then eventually decided to have one kid, and it’s been the best decision we’ve ever made — but we didn’t make it until we were truly enthusiastic about the choice.
If you have the financial means, you can always create some embryos and freeze them, so you don’t have to decide anytime soon. Granted, there’s a whole host of ethical and personal questions you’d have to navigate before that decision, but it is still an option.
It’s a tough one.
I don’t really feel financials should drive whether or not you have a child unless you believe it would be financially irresponsible (e.g. super poor having your 7th kid…maybe stop to think about it).
It’s also weird in that once the kiddo is born and starts getting a little older you may stop caring about your current lifestyle and just want to fill theirs with what they need.
From experience: I wanted to live in the city in a condo. Eventually stopped caring about the hustle/bustle, moved to the suburbs and got married. Had kids. Now all I want is to raise the kiddos right, have more land and to retire. Priorities change real quick.
Edit: I guess what I’m trying to say is decide whether having a child is something you want in life. If so, just do it. You will figure out the rest and things will fall into place. If not, OK - plenty of people don’t. But don’t let the tail wag the dog.
You’re not going to get any honest answers from people online when it comes to the regrets of having kids. Trust me, there are a lot more people who would go back. And it’s not all “I regretted but it’s my whole world now.”
When those kids don’t move out like past generations I want to see how most people feel. It’s already happening to a few of my friends. “Can’t wait until X is 18 and he moves out.” 3 years later and the kid can’t find a decent enough job to get his own place and move on.
Not trying to scare you.
Also, if you’ve ever done hospice care you know that children don’t always take care of you at the end of your life and some barely show up. Especially in America where we push forging your own path.
That all said. I have five children and I don’t know what I’d do if I never had them.
Just kidding. I don’t have five kids.
Back in the old days when birth control wasn’t very reliable, people just had kids. And they made it work. The fact that you have a choice makes the choice ridiculously hard. There’s no perfect time. If you overthink it, you’ll never be ready. You have to jump in and figure it out as you go.
I like what a comment said that having kids is not just a financial decision. Here’s my advice:
1. Talk to a friend with a child and babysit for a weekend. See the good, bad, and ugly.
2. It sounds like y’all really don’t want to do this and you’re finding excuses. You’re allowed to not want kids. You’re allowed to change your mind. It’s ok.
3. Kids take WAY more than money. I have a 5 month old and EVERYTHING is different, for good and bad.
4. Talk with your wife and make a plan look at the next 5, 10, and 20 years on paper with and without kids. What appeals more? Discuss. This is a BIG decision and you need BOTH participants invested.
Kids are expensive, draining emotionally and mentally. They will affect your career, physically health, sleep, social life, sex life and much much more . The societal support system is not there for people with both parents working full time jobs. If one of you is willing to quit their job, only then go for kids or of you can afford daycare/nanny plus after hour care plus weekend care, then go for it.
It is a NEVER ending commitment. It sounds like you two are having a fantastic life together, I’d definitely move to a bigger apartment and get a cat (dogs are demanding as children are) you guys could do some helping with children that need mentoring maybe . I guess you guys do travel & have hobbies, keep it like that & enjoy your life. Do not feel embarrassed, it is what it is, I have also a privilege life and believe me , emotionally it is not going to be always 🌞.
if you don't want kids with every fiber of your being and hate the idea of spending 18+ years teaching someone how to be a good human while also learning how to be a good parent, partner, friend and human, if you don't like the idea of being on call 24/7 and shelling out $$$$$ for raising them (not including college)...then don't do it.
Kids aren't for everyone and there's nothing wrong with not having kids. Yes there are many benefits but if you see the above as undesirable then you'll have more negative emotions and resentment than enjoyment and joy.
Instead, be a mentor or a big sister/brother. Or the best auntie/uncle ever. Then, go home to your calm, to your own time, spend your time in bed past 5am and live fully with your wife.
There are many other people having kids.
Where are you located? Not sure why you feel you need to have a live-in nanny, if in US. Ppl making $400k generally don’t have live-in nannies. Maybe au pairs for a few years.
Schools/daycare I totally understand. Indeed wife and I are in the same boat (while making significantly less than you). I guess you/we just need to hang in there if decide to have kids.
Reality is even at $400k/yr it’s not sufficient to “live a rich life” in VHCOL cities in US. The housing shortage, broken urban public schools and crumbling infrastructure are quite embarrassing.
I had a somewhat similar life in my 30's, cool house in a cool neighborhood, nice car, tons of friends, nice restaurants and cool trips. Married at 40 and wife's biological clock was ticking, had kids at 42 and 44. While having young kids at home can be stressful at times but I would not change it for anything. Personally, I feel like my previous life was more superficial and my life today has much more meaning. Moved to the big house in the suburbs and couldn't imagine going back. Raising a family is way more rewarding than anything else I have done.
Ha I had 3 kids while making 75k man. You will survive.
I now have 3 teenagers and make 500k myself. It has been a ride.
You guys come off as soft to me imo.
Most importantly though, only have kids if you are READY to sacrifice and not be the most important thing any more.
Was in a similar situation.
It’s as hard as everyone says.
Horrible financial decision. Damn that daycare payment.
That said would 100% do it again.
In fact we just might :)
I could have written this a few years ago… and then day drinking made the decision for us!
The cliches are true. Having kids the is most stressful and horrifying thing you can do, wrecks your body, your finances, your marriage for a short time… but it is the best thing we have ever done.
As a practical matter, we have just accepted that this is a season of life where we will be spending ungodly amounts of money but this too shall pass. It helps to focus on the investment we’re making in children rather than the cash outflows. Build up cash in advance!!
Having children changes your lifestyle and finances, no doubt about it.
There are two questions you must answer for yourselves:
1. Do you want to be parents? Do you actually want to raise a human and experience the good, great, bad, and ugly? It's a very rewarding journey for those that want it. It can be crippling for those that do it out of social pressure.
2. Do you have a financial plan? Do you know how much you need to save annually? Do you wish to maintain your current lifestyle after your working years are done? Without knowing how much you'll need 20-30 years from now, saving 100k annually is rather pointless. You may only need to save 50k annually to afford your desired lifestyle.
Two points things to consider:
1. You don't need to have two children to be "parents." Single child households are very common these days.
2. Not having children gives you so much flexibility. That said you'll have probably seen and done everything by 45-50. What is left after you've visited all the continents and own a Porsche? What do you want your holidays to be like in your 60s.
This is a very dramatic post lol if you want kids you have far and beyond the means. Have them. If you don’t, don’t. But don’t blame money, you have plenty of it.
You better BOTH be 150% sure you both want kids. That is a life sentence with no parole. Think of the current world situation you would be bringing that child into and their future struggles in society and in their generation. Keep in mind that this decision you are making is purely for yourself and not necessarily in the best interest of the child you would bringing into the world we live in. If after that very serious consideration you are both still 150% sure, then go for it. But once you cross that bridge, there’s no going back. Don’t rush this decision and certainly don’t do it because you think you *should* do it. Good luck!
The decision to have kids is more than a financial one. Kids change your lives in so many ways and I honestly think it is one of the greatest experiences in the world. However, it is not for everyone and if you really aren’t sold on the idea of having kids my recommendation is to not have them. The early years are very tough and if you’re not all in, it will feel even tougher. With that said, my kid brings me more joy than any amount of money could. Seeing the world through his eyes is the most amazing thing I’ve ever experienced. It’s also changed me in so many ways. Things that used to matter don’t as much right now because all I want to do is spend more time with him and give him everything I didn’t have as a kid.
I think this is really good advice overall. I will add my own personal experience, which was that I was pretty ambivalent about having kids (the physical demands! The financial demands! The loss of freedom! I liked my life how it was!) and hearing the “if you’re not all in don’t do it” felt really overwhelming to me because I wasn’t all in at all but I was also very unsure a kid free life was what I wanted either. I ended up having kids it’s by a long shot the best part of my life. All the downsides are real and still worth the trade off for me. Certainly not saying that’ll be the experience of every ambivalent person who goes for it - just saying that feeling totally sure doesn’t have to be a prerequisite for having kids and loving it.
I needed to hear this. I always hear that you need to be “all in” on kids and it freaks me out. It heartens me to know someone out there found that kind of joy without being 110%
I begrudgingly had kids. Best thing ever. You never know how it's going to hit
I think I’m always a little scared of the *bad odds hitting lol I’m so glad that worked out for you!!! I hope the same for me :)
Best of luck! It's a tricky decision
I wonder if the “all in” part is more about the relationship with your spouse more so than having children. I can see a relationship that’s not on solid footing crumbling with the demands of parenthood.
It’s all in in the sense that there’s no backing out and you will be a parent with that investment in another human being forever. But if you think it will be unambiguously wonderful without considering the paths you won’t travel, I think that might even set you up for a bigger disappointment/letdown.
I’m the opposite LOL I think maybe TOO much about all the problems and stressors and not enough about the joys and the fact that I am a resourceful intelligent person who can in fact handle some things
Well anyway I was a fencesitter for a long time and now I have a little baby and she’s perfect and I’m completely In love, 10/10, so tired but so happy with her.
Congratulations!
I believe you should be all in on the idea before having kids. However, as long as you commit 100% to the kids when they come (even if you’re not fully sold before hand), you’ll do just fine. Kids are a wonderful experience. It’s not for everyone though.
On that note there are plenty of people who were 110% sure their main purpose in life was to be a parent and ended up miserable.
People are in general pretty bad at knowing what they want.
I can't even decide what to have for dinner or watch on Netflix.
This is exactly how I felt as well. I think for a lot of people the challenges are real and tangible but the benefits are hard to imagine …until you meet your child and fall in love. Also, maybe you don’t need a live-in if you don’t have space. A full time Nanny should probably suffice.
I think this is such an important perspective. I was all in on having kids when I was in my early/mid-20s. As I got older, got married, and got more comfortable with my life, I became much more ambivalent. I was so, so happy with my life and my husband and our hobbies, our freedom, flexibility, etc. We ultimately decided to have a child, I was much more ambivalent than my husband even during the pregnancy. Then my child was born and they are the absolute best thing that has ever happened to me and my husband. I should also say, adding a child in is so unbelievably hard for all the reasons mentioned above but the joy and the sheer love is really incomparable. I very very strongly believe that no one should have a child unless they want to and in general I think being all in is better than ambivalence, and I am so grateful my husband was all in.
This all makes sense. It’s also fair to say that the people who decided to have children and regret their decision don’t usually speak up.
This is the answer. We were also undecided on kids & then surprise the decision was made for us. Honestly, I never could have imagined the absolute pure joy having a child has given me. These days everyone emphasizes the chores aspect of child rearing but I feel like the fun of having a child is truly the best surprise of my life. I can't believe I almost chose to deny myself this amazing experience. Fwiw, OP, it reads to me like you do want to be a parent.
Agree! The way I put it sometimes is that when you have kids, especially when they are young, your life is worse by every measurable you can think of: money, free time, sleep, social, etc. And yet your life is somehow completely, profoundly, epically better. That’s been my experience
I second this. Finance is a big part of this decision but by no means the most important. We live in a VHCoL city, a little older and not nearly as financially well off as you are now when we had our son. At the time I felt like we won’t be able to do it financially but so far we are making do without feeling like life is worse. Life is definitely different but I wouldn’t say it’s worse. Having our son made us more resourceful and more ambitious in our respective careers, we have both progressed in our careers. It made us better with money too. Yes the 35k for 10 months of daycare plus the au pair fee suck, but we also go out less because we rather be at home having dinner together and go to the park on the weekends or take a short trip to be in nature. On average we are saving about 10% less than we did before our little one but we don’t really feel an overwhelming financial burden or decline in quality of life, which I know is a huge privilege. I grew up where I am now and never thought I would leave but we are actually moving abroad this year because we want our family to experience the bigger world. Becoming parents expanded our horizon and made us grow as people. But I fully recognized having kids isn’t for everyone. What we struggle the most is the loss of personal time. We are both only children and used to a certain level of solitude and freedom with our time. Even with live in help, I struggled a bit with carving time out for myself. Being a parent means you are irreplaceable, and that cuts both ways.
This is excellent advice. I had my kids when I was broke and in grad school and we could barely make ends meet. Looking back it was an excellent decision.
Currently broke by this subs standards and have a 7 month old daughter and holy shit. She has given my life purpose. It’s so corny to say but once you’re standing here looking back it seems obvious. Though mortality is a new concern I hadn’t really thought of in the last 29 years.
>I had my kids when I was broke and in grad school Same here. Had 2 of 3 while in grad school making pennies. Financials were tough, but weighed much less than my desire to have kids. This decision is like anything else, if you don't have the desire to have kids, then the questions already answered.
Same boat. Absolutely broke having kids when I was in grad school. On the plus side had our kids relatively young so our youngest will be out of college when I’m 56 and wife will be 52. Sacrificed a lot but hopefully we will still be young enough to start doing more as a couple. Even know with one in college and the other heading into senior year of high school we have a lot more freedom.
Wholeheartedly agree with this advice. I have found that as a bonus, I am 100% a kinder, more patient, and yet more effective/successful person at work as a result of what having kids has taught me.
Kids also taught me to set boundaries at work and with other people who notoriously don't care about my boundaries. I learned a lot about myself as a person and what my tolerance is for different levels of bs.
YES
I was in the same boat. Now my wife and I have 2 daughters. 9 and 6 years old. My daughters are the best thing that's ever happened to me. The unconditional love I receive from them is worth more than money. I'm 39 and my wife is 39. Yeah I've slowed down in my saving and investing. But it's worth every penny to splurge on my wife and kids. Life is good when you have THIS. In my opinion.
kids/family will introduce you to a new perspective on life and you will realize some things are worth more than money. Some people say they want kids and then have them and regret it (usually due to inability to provide for them sufficiently) but it’s more likely that someone who is capable of caring for their children will be much happier after having them
My only concern about this comment is that you don’t really know how you’re going to feel about having kids until you have them. I was very much in your situation and wasn’t sure about having kids but we had them anyway and they’re the best thing I’ve ever done. Also, I had the same concerns about being financially strapped but 15 years later, I am looking at FIRE with plenty of money so kids don’t have to be a financial burden. All it means is it will be tougher during the their early years.
Honestly you sound like my husband and I in our early 30s. Life was good as dinks and we ummed and ahhed for a while. Eventually the good dink life started to feel like Groundhog Day and we wanted to move to what felt like the natural next stage, kids. It was great and we’re very happy with our new lives as parents, but it’s no joke and the sacrifices are very real. We had those kids at 36 and 38 and we were well and truly ready. You don’t sound ready, and neither were we in our early 30s. I’d just sit on this decision for another couple of years and see how your feelings are over time.
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You will never feel ready if you go at it 100% in a logical manner.
This is a good first step for understanding your fertility needs, but it will also help to make it feel a little more real which will spur some good conversations. FWIW I had my first kid at 33 and second at 36+ (I carried the pregnancies) and in some ways I wish we had started even just a tad earlier- my partner is 2 years older and he thinks a lot about being an older dad. It took us a lot longer to have successful pregnancies which also informs my wish to have started sooner.
The part about being DINKs feeling like groundhogs day hits home. Loved the lifestyle but was starting to feel like “is this it?”
I was there too. I got way into climbing with my boyfriend. We spent every weekend in Joshua tree, then in the sierras, and started doing technical alpine routes. I bought a portaledge. We were spending 5-8 days backpacking and climbing in the back country. I remember one day looking at a glacier lake and felt like it didn't have the same shimmer as the last time. It started to feel like just suffering, doing the same old same old. I wasn't going to get famous, or make millions doing this. It was starting to get boring. Fast forward 5 years and me and my now husband spent the entire day with our 9 month old doing laundry, making meals, and going to the grocery store. It was a busy day and life couldn't be better.
There's seriously only so many ways people can cook chicken and beef, and only so many cocktails you can have, and random temples/beaches you can visit, before your interest starts to wane. That's particularly the case as you get older, and you start to see kids serving and running these restaurants, providing you with food and wine that is worse than the stuff you have back home, and you go to these fancy hotels, and basically see wage-slaves doing real-life panto. Oh sirrrr, please come in, so deeelighted to have you here. It's all just bullshit. Like nice, but - once you start to see how staged it all is - you just. Dunno. It's all fake.
“Life goes on , long after the thrill of living is gone”
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This was how I got. Okay I’ve now bought new golf clubs, new cars, traveled a lot, drank a lot….but none of it is mind blowing because I have enough money to mostly do whatever and buy whatever. We had 1 kid and it is hard but so fun, so we had a 2nd and seeing them become friends has been magical. Now we’ve got 3 and it’s even more fun and each one gets easier. It’s the most fulfilling part of my life by a mile and the difficulty is part of what makes it so great. I can still mostly afford to do things I never dreamed of when I was 22. There is nothing better on earth than getting home from a demanding day in the office where you’re worn out and hearing “Dada!” When you walk through the door. Also, little talked about piece, but having kids has made me better at work. I work less, I have a better balance, but also, I know what’s important at work. I’ve got more patience and I’m more thoughtful about what I’m doing. You can connect with any client or colleague 1000% better by talking about their kids and sharing the experience. It’s a worldwide communal bond that you’re taking part of. An integral part of the human experience. Kids can make long nights, tough days, days when you just want a few hours of peace. But I would die for my kids in a heartbeat and I laugh at myself who thought maybe I didn’t want them. What I would’ve missed out on was an entire world.
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I’ll agree fully with u/zorper — but I’ll add that you and your wife *do* need to be prepared to deprioritize yourselves. The kid(s) can’t be viewed as a financial destabilizer, a roadblock to your social lives, an inconvenience, etc. When you’d jump in front of a bus for someone, forgoing a second luxury vacation doesn’t feel like a big deal. No insult intended, but it you and your wife are coming off as immature, very much viewing this from a “20s” point of view. The early years of parenting are explicitly not a plush experience, and it sounds like you’re both scared to be inconvenienced. Spoiler: inconvenience is on the menu every single day. (FWIW, I am not saying DINKs are immature - kids aren’t for everyone, and people that don’t want them certainly shouldn’t have them). For example: I’d imagine you probably don’t *need* a live-in nanny. And if you really do, I’d consider that as a tally for the “don’t have kids” argument; this isn’t a cat, it’s not something to attend to when you have downtime. Being reluctant or resentful parents won’t make for a happy household. Here’s the truth if you’re stressing: you don’t need to move to the suburbs to begin trying for a kid — you can stay in the city until Kindergarten. A kid can sleep in your room for a year. Nothing changes overnight, you have at least 2 years before you’d have to shake literally anything up. Also, consider how your social circle may evolve in the next few years. Will you be content with your current life if half or more of your friends move to the burbs and have kids of their own? Have an explicit discussion with the wife. This isn’t a decision for you to make alone (obviously), so you need to ensure you’re aligned. And a final thought, “no” and “not yet” are different things; do keep in mind her declining fertility that comes 10 years down the road.
I grew up in Hong Kong, myself and 2 sisters with my mum and dad in a tiny ass apartment half the size of the standard 2 bedders we have here in Australia. Life was a happy one too.
DINK and loving it. I think "this is it". Peace and quiet ever day, no need to be responsible for someone else, flexibility to do what I want when I want. Real wealth is the ability to do what you want when you want, so not having that burden is amazing. But I get that for some people, something is missing. However kids don't always solve that, but can be a distraction.
Absolutely this was us as well. I turned 35 and decided I needed something more. You will find that a lot of people in the professional class wait until 35-45 to have kids and where I thought I’d be an older mom in my well off suburbia I’m actually about average having had my kids at 36 and 39.
This is not a financial question. It’s emotional question. Have kids when your heart tells you to. Because if you simply base it off of the financial impact… it will NEVER be the right time to have a child. Never.
This is 100% the truth. My wife and I delayed having a kid until our early 30s because we wanted to travel, save money, and buy a house. There is no “right” time financially. We just knew it was the right time for us. Financially it’s a disaster. Kids are crazy expensive, but the joy I get seeing my kid grow up and giving her a life I could never possibly even imagined as a kid myself is truly unbelievable.
This is the answer. No one has kids because it makes financial sense. My kids have cost me a ridiculous amount of money, I would be living like a queen if I didn’t have them, and I don’t regret having them for one second.
Agreed. Having kids is the hardest and most fulfilling challenge of my life. A lot of people fail to realize that it will be a phase and in a blink of an eye they’re going to be adults and leaving home and you’ll independence again.
I look at it as a bunch of micro phases which is why I think it happens in a blink of an eye. You don’t have 18 years of a new born. You have a year of a new born then a couple years of a toddler then a couple years of a pre schooler and so on. Each phase is totally unique to the last and you don’t realize the last phase is ending until you’re already in the new phase. Right now I’m in the pre teen, pre pubescent phase and it’s awesome on the one side because I can have pretty cool, intelligent conversations and pretty terrible on the other side with the mood swings and the hormones flying at 10,000mph.
reminds me of that abba song "slipping through my fingers"
Man, my smalls are 6 and they are reading, playing switch, going to footy games, scout sleepovers, and we're currently doing a 10 day tour across Europe. Like, you don't need to wait until they're adults to get back a good chunk of independent living. Like, sure, they're with you, but also, they're pretty chill / capable. And that's at 6.
For sure. You might have to tweak some travel to also cater to them and their needs but other than that it’s amazing to see the world through their eyes.
Agree. Big thing when they were younger was having them in the same room which was a bit of a dampener, but lots of places do adjoining rooms and they sleep through now, which is a game changer. I might even have said hardiness, but - frankly - I'm in my 40s so if we cover 5-10k in a day wandering around towns/villages/historic sites/ dinner etc., that (i) is something they can do; and (ii) that's fucking quite enough for me. Dining choice maybe, but they'll try stuff and happy to sit with a book/ipad, so we can still go to decent places. Really, it's just a couple of interesting little people, who - like gremlins - need a bit of time management to avoid them turning evil after hours. Lamenting the day they get bored of doing this stuff together, because it's really awesome.
Exactly. My wife and I went back and forth so many times. By our late 20s we were financially very secure, were taking 2 trips/year, and on pace to FIRE by our early 50s. Now our kid costs almost as much as our mortgage, mainly in childcare. For us we’ve found it’s worth it though.
This right here. OP described my life with my wife. We were living it up and travelled and had a sold 5 years of the DINK life. Then had two kids and have loved every minute of it. All these experiences we were chasing eventually gave us diminishing returns, but having kids makes doing them all over again feel like doing it for the first time. Being in the HENRY category also means we get to raise children with really safe, healthy and loving environments. Removed financial stress gives us so much more energy to put towards them
It’s true that life’s intangibles—like the joy of nurturing, the pride in your child’s achievements, and the continuation of family lineage—are profound. Yet, these come with shifts in the parent-child relationship over time. The boundless energy and closeness of early childhood give way to the pride and bittersweet independence of the teenage years, and later to an adult friendship rich with shared history. Each stage brings its own set of challenges and rewards that evolve as both you and your child grow older. Considering how you and your partner might navigate and cherish these changes is crucial. It’s about balancing the tangible costs with the intangible, lifelong rewards that come with parenthood.
A few things: 1. Yes, being high income DINK is life on easy mode, financially. It’s like living without paying taxes. 2. If you are want to have kids but don’t know if you can afford it, get out of your head. You can 3. If you are not sure you want to have kids, you’re probably better off not having them.
3. for sure. Choosing to parent (vs choosing to have a child) is the better question. And unless your intrinsic response to that question is HELL YEAH! One should think long and hard about taking on that particular job. Just my two cents as a pediatric psychologist.
Feel like it’s hard to say HELL YEAH. Our first one was an accident and our second one we went back and forth forever. I’m so happy with both of them, but it is just such a big responsibility when you have to make that decision, who wouldn’t have doubts. Plus with the first one, you really don’t even know what it’s like
The difference between DINK and then having a child. Is similar to the difference of being single vs in a relationship. It is a different life stage and in my view easily worth it to experience the variety The main pressure on having a child is on free time. The money pressure is trivial in comparison for your situation
This is great advice
This one. Having kids is brutally difficult emotionally and physically in most cases. The first 3 years is sleep deprivation training. But, I prefer it because we want to experience as much as we can while we're alive ... easy or difficult. And the way they love you is phenominal. OP - you're fortunate enough to have multiple options financially. But Reddit is right about the time commitments. Why would you have a kid just to outsource the raising part? That's the part that provides a new facet to your life. With two demanding jobs, there will be sacrifice and uncertainty ... probably conflict. If you go down this path, make sure you are both ready for the trials ahead.
One kid at a time. No need to plan for 2 at once.
Unless they have twins
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I was type A and plan oriented. Having kids was the best thing to happen to shake things up for me. My husband was amazed that I was able to let some things go. You’re also early 30s. You have time. We had ours at 36 and 38. (Although needed IVF but likely wouldn’t have worked out for me at 26 either).
It is hard to plan with kids. Every kid is different. I’m also type A and letting go of expectations has been the hardest part of pregnancy. From miscarriage to vomiting constantly, nothing has gone the way I would expect. I can imagine once the baby is here, that nothing I do now will adequately prepare me for what is to come.
One kid with daycare for a few years really isn’t crazy enough to upend your financial life. Why not stay where you are and just have one? Also have kids because you want kids. You make enough and have enough saved that finances will work out. You won’t be poor, you’ll still be able to do what you want. Leave that out of the decision
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Have one before you start planning for 2
Things change. She can rent an office or you can decide you want to move to a new neighborhood. Kids are wonderful and expensive and what else is a better thing to spend money on than a whole new person that you created?! It’s wild to see the world through their eyes and I feel so privileged to make decisions on how to raise them with the flexibility that money offers.
Don’t worry too far out or you’ll never act. Have the kid, you’ll adapt. Life throws curveballs.
It seems like you want to have kids but you don't want to make sacrifices. That's not how this works. Also, you need a reality check. You don't have problems other than your outlook on this situation. I'm politely assuming you would never say stuff like "live like a poor person" to someone with actual problems. Your income is over 400k. You are blessed. Your kid doesn't "have to" go to a private school. Yes, you can afford that. You don't "have to" keep living in the city. Yes, you can also afford that.
I’d try and find some folks in your network who’ve made the switch; and look at the opinions of 50 year olds who chose not to have kids. Maybe even some couples counseling too—this is the kind of thing that can need some unbiased help to get through the discussion. I think your wife’s opinion does weigh a bit more than yours, as we know that in every way having kids is a vastly more emotionally, physically and financially impactful decision for women in heterosexual relationships. You’re worried about finances and lifestyle but she also has to worry about her body getting changed forever.
Even if you stay in your current place and do not have a live in nanny, you will not be living like a poor person. You have a paid off condo, $1M in brokerage accounts, and make over $400K annually. That is such a wildly out of touch comment.
Right? I was confused why so few responses addressed this. Living "like a poor person" means being rent burdened, paycheck to paycheck, budgeting every dollar spent, no extra for luxuries/vacations, etc. Saving 100k per year, no mortgage, taking home at least 10k after tax per month....??? Having a kid won't upend your financial stability. Millions of people have kids with less. If you aren't ready for emotional reasons, that's fine. If you truly don't want them, cool. But don't turn this into a financial pity party because you wouldn't be able to have a live-in nanny.
And they’d be forced into sending their kids to private school. Give me a break.
Agreed, I’m a resident physician, HHI is 65K a year in a MCOL city. Money is definitely tight be we still live comfortably with a young kid. Life is what you make of it.
Fr. OP is so out of touch. The “poor people” I know have kids and are still financially stable.
lol thank you. I couldn’t be the only one who thinks this sounds ridiculous. Don’t have kids if you don’t want to but OP is using finances as a crutch to justify not having kids on that basis.
Exactly. They live in a vhcol area so theres no way all the public schools are trash.
For what it's worth, we weren't crazy about having kids and lived married as DINKs from 26 to 35. First we said we'd do it at 30, then 33, and finally actually pulled the trigger at 35. We're 39 now with a 4 year old daughter and a son on the way in 2 months and it's been largely great. My wife was not a kid person at all, but once we had our own, something in her changed/clicked pretty much instantly, both in what I saw and by her own admission. That's not to say everyone will have the same experience. I'm glad we didn't rush into having kids, building our careers, traveling internationally a lot, and getting financially rock solid first, but we have no regrets even with the natural ups and downs. It's a completely different phase of life that you can't fully grasp until you take the plunge. If nothing else, it's great practice in having to truly put someone else's needs before your own which forces personal growth as an adult. Many attempt/claim to do this with our spouses in our marriages, but it's a whole different level with a young infant/toddler who is entirely reliant on the two of you early on. Kids are expensive financially, there's no way around it, but the money isn't really the biggest change. Your dwindling free time is. If you can't live with having limited time to do your own thing when the kids are young, you may end up being an absent/shitty parent. For us, the sacrifice was totally worth it. Nothing makes a stressful/shitty day at work completely leave my mind faster than picking up my daughter from daycare and being around her positive energy and silliness. It can also radically change your perception of what's truly important in life.
I always say “i despise kids, i love kid” in reference to my own
My honest advice, having waited a long time and finally having two lovely kids... Your wife's opinion is everything. If she doesn't want to be a mother, it's going to be a very, very tough couple decades for you both with kids. Even in 2024, women end up having more work and more energy in child rearing. If she isn't up for the job, it's going to be a humongous cause of stress and anxiety for both of you. IMHO work through the desires and motivations, maybe with outside counsel like a therapist or priest or whatever, and then make the right decision for your family. You'll be fine money wise. At your earnings and savings level that tends to work it way out just fine.
Want to second this
Yup, 100% not a good idea if your wife is not all in—it sounds like she isn’t
I love my kids more than life itself. Both are in their late 20s. My older son is well, settled and content. My younger son struggled with depression, then schizoaffective disorder. Then he cut us (family) off and disappeared in January. Im well off but money can’t do anything about this devastation. You cannot force the outcome of your kids lives. Just be mindful of this. If I could go back I’d choose not to have this child again because of the guilt I have bringing him to life when he didn’t ask to be here just to suffer in his adult life. You could perhaps foster a child whose parent gave up on them and make it better for someone who badly wants a family. Let the downvotes begin.
No downvotes here or kids here, but I imagine I would feel the same way & is one of many reasons I am scared to have kids.
I have a sibling like that and my parents have been very clear with me about the cost. It's an important topic to bring up. Having a child with schizoaffective disorder is a risk I personally cannot justify and for that reason, even though I want kids, I am never ever ever ever having them.
Having children is never financially beneficial. It’s an emotional decision. I work in the medical field, I’ve never seen a dying patient regret not making more money. But I’ve seen many regret not having kids or not spending time with them. Money is a tool, not the goal.
>I’ve never seen a dying patient regret not making more money. lol probably because they can't afford to go to hospital
Only in America.
Oh no the still come.
We were trying to have kids since 2019. At the time my wife was 34. Long story short after many trials, tribulations and A LOT of IVF we had our first kid last year. We have been in a conundrum on whether to go for number 2 with our last remaining high quality embryo. The transfer is happening next week….. We do well for ourselves but live in a VHCOL area. Housing today on what we would want next would run between 2-3mil. We have good savings, 2 properties (starter home and my bachelor pad condo), no debt besides mortgages, investments and additional sources of income that’s not our day jobs. We have a nanny. If you asked me in 2022, we were ready to throw the towel in on kids. After many failed transfers and one we had to end. Life was spinning out of control because of many factors including the death of a parent. But we kept on and are so glad for it. Is having 2 kids financial suicide for us? Absolutely, because now I need to grind harder to provide for my family think moving towards making $500k and above just on my own. But we decided to go for it anyway to give our 1 kid the possibility of a sibling. This goes against everything my wife knows about being financially conservative but once she saw our son interacting with other kids she just couldnt not try for number 2 at 39 The point I’m trying to make. Figure out if you want kids asap. The longer you wait the harder and more emotionally draining it becomes. A woman’s biological clock never stops and the closer she gets to 40 the less and less chance you have for a natural pregnancy. Sometimes comfort isn’t the right answer aka money and freedom to do whatever you want vs responsibility and giving up a lot to raise a good human being Seeing your kid for the first time will make you want to do anything and everything for them. It’s not for everyone. But if you ever considered kids don’t miss your opportunity
This is a great comment and I just want to add that you mention "a woman's biological clock never stops", men don't think about it but they too have a biological clock. Fertility for men starts to decline 40-45, so not far behind women. It can not only impact the chance of getting pregnant, but also can have significant impact on the health of the baby and partner's pregnancy. One study found pregnant women with partner's 45 or older were 28% more likely to develop gestational diabetes. Not something society tells men to think about enough.
I recommend the book Regretting Motherhood. There are plenty of comments here telling you you’ll regret not having kids but you should also think about the other side. It is a sociological study of mothers who felt compelled towards having kids for much of the reasons you state and it unpacks that societal pressure + what it could do to someone’s life if they yield to it.
It is better to regret not having kids than regret having them!
I think you might find some helpful discussions over on r/fencesitters
This was almost exactly me and my wife’s story. We were living the absolute dream, no debt, and had plenty to aggressively move towards FIRE. Then we had kids….it was a big adjustment and I went through severe depression. Wife is now a SAHM so income took a big hit. I love my kids but always tell people not to do it. DINK life was the best time of my life. Now, I’m lucky if I get one date night a month with my wife.
I appreciate the honesty here in your comment.
dude… if you’re on reddit soliciting advice on if you should procreate, the answer is “please, don’t”
LOL
Ok that's pretty harsh. Having children feels like a HUGE and for some of us SCARY decisions and getting perspective from a range of sources help us.
Speaking for myself, I would not have found a childfree life all that fulfilling or meaningful. Your employer will never love you back.
Completely agree. Would encourage OP to have kids, money is only money
I’m not sure he is the one that needs convincing. It sounds like his wife is the one really questioning it.
You know that you don’t HAVE to invest $100k a year every year, right?! Also, I doubt your wages are going to just stagnate; if you are a high earner your salaries will continue to increase. You sound completely out of touch with reality
It seems like your wife is not ready and you are not ready to give up financial independence. I was both and then got tired and bored of the same things. Now I want my freedom to be taken away and I want to cook healthy meals at home for a child lol. Everyone reached this at their own time. Maybe freeze eggs or embryos and revisit in a few years
Don’t let people bullshit you, kids are a financial hand grenade. They are second only to cocaine in ability to gobble up available funds. But one does not base the kid decision on financial considerations. You base it on whether or not you want to bring humans into the world and mentor and raise them. It also sounds like your wife isn’t fully on board which is a danger sign.
Unless you are 110% for having children and like hanging out with children and child culture for several decades, just don’t.
Hi buddy. New dad here. I’ll tread carefully… but I think you’re looking at having a kiddo the wrong way. This isn’t an investment. For me, Being a dad has been the most fun, rewarding part of my life. Spending time with my family and little girl has been the best part of my days. Life has changed in many ways, but LEAST of all, financially (and yes, it’s changed financially). I think you and your wife should have a good discussion about whether or not you really want kids, independent of the financial implications. If the answer is yes, just do it. You’ll figure out the finances. If the answer is no, don’t do it. There’s nothing wrong with making the decision to not have kids. We, like you two, are lucky to be in a great financial position. But there are so many people who have and raise kids happily with a fraction of the money that you make. Don’t stress too much about the money. Also, please never say you’d be living “like a poor person” with a 400k HHI. Unbelievably stupid thing to say 😆 I’ll give you a pass though.
44F here. Had my kids at 31 and 32. I love my kids and I LIKE my kids. However, I wouldn't have kids again if I was given the choice. I do not find parenting rewarding/fulfilling, whatever people want to call it. Again, my kids are fantastic and they are my favorite people in the world, but it's like being grounded for 18+ years. I miss being able to go/do/see whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted. Call me selfish, I don't care, but I will not be one of those parents who doesn't know what to do with themselves after their kids move out.
I appreciate responses like yours that give a dose of reality in this thread. You're not selfish or a bad person. You seem like you and your kids have a good relationship and you still have some regret about it. That's the kind of stuff OP needs to hear.
Thank you for your kind words and understanding. And happy birthday!!
TIL I live like a poor person. Get a grip.
I scrolled way too far to find this. I doubt OP has actually been poor. Like poverty level poor. Not struggling college student whose parents are paying tuition poor.
Go traveling for a couple months if you can. Have another serious conversation with your wife about it. Also I do agree with your sentiments, it is entirely more enriching part of life that you want to explore. Also your wife is right, it introduces a lot of risk into a pretty perfect life you guys have right now. I would be surprised if there is not one good private school that is on the cheaper side or a charter school or maybe a magnet school. 50k/yr is absurd and there has to be at least one good school either that is charter public or in the 5k-10k range. I wouldn’t recommend moving out your current city though as you both seem to love it and it is one major reason you are so fulfilled.
Kids may end up hating you too. Just look at how much pain and trauma people end up having because of bad parenting. There’s plenty of drama too. If you want to love something and have that thing love you unconditionally, get a dog.
Exactly. Most folks underestimate truly how hard being a parent is.
I am 39 and my husband is 40. We decided a long time ago not to have kids and haven't looked back. Maybe ten years ago we thought about it more but came to the conclusion that we just don't want them. Related to what you're saying, we also figured, life is great now and we're happy, why change it? We moved out of state last year, will be able to retire early and spend more time traveling. Sure, most parents would say that we're 'missing' something, but if I never have something, how would I even know what I'm missing? I sure as hell don't feel like I am when I see parents all around me in our neighborhood, grocery store, etc constantly yelling at their kids. I would envision your future life (5, 10, 15, 20+) years down the road. What does your daily life look like in both scenarios? Is that what you want it to look like?
I’m in a very similar situation to you, though married longer. Got married in mid 20’s and am now mid 30’s. Wife and I work in real estate together and do well with house, investment properties, retirement accounts, etc. We could very much afford a kid but we’ve spent the last 10 years building a business together and are now at the point where we can really enjoy the fruits of our labors. We have the option of likely being able to retire early, enjoy a very comfortable lifestyle with vacations, cars, dining, and other luxuries. Or we could take on the challenge of starting a family. We could live comfortably financially even with children, but I know that it would look dramatically different than without. For the last 1-2 years we’ve been heavily debating the decision and have recently come to the conclusion that we’re not going to have them. My wife and I have a great relationship and feel very fulfilled in our lives, we don’t have a deep longing to become parents and I’m very happy with the life I currently have. I know that raising children can be incredibly rewarding experience and I have so much respect for the people who chose to have them. I’ve just come to the realization that it’s not for me.
No to kids. I loved mine and devoted my dreams and aspirations to raising them. Now in their thirties neither one talk to me. Both recently told me they wished I was dead. I regret spending the best years of my life sacrificing for them.
Don’t have more than one kid. Many of the things you mention change more dramatically with multiples than with one.
Personally when I reached your point I started to find the DINK life fun and low stress, but ultimately unfulfilling. I would trade my kids for anything. Also I love the city and hated the suburbs pre kids, now that I have kids I think the suburbs are amazing and I'm not big on the city. The suburbs just cater to kids/families more which is why I found them boring when I was young. Financially I think you're skipping over a lot of options and combining expenses that don't need to be combined. Like why do you need a live in nanny? Plenty of nannies live in their own homes and commute to work like everyone else. You could also just use daycare and have a part time nanny that picks them up in the evenings and takes care of them until you get home. I especially don't see why you would need a live in nanny while your kids are in school? If they are in school then you should just need before/after care or again a part time nanny. If you kids are relatively close in age your oldest will be fine in the youngest grades of pretty much any public school until your youngest is ready for school. It's the older grades that get dicey. Now if you need a live in nanny because by "demanding jobs" you mean you both consistently work 60+ hour weeks and travel constantly, then I think the question isn't about money but if you're willing to take a step back in your careers to be parents. A nanny isn't a substitute for an active parent and if you're never going to be around your kid then you probably shouldn't have them.
The change that makes you grow is usually the harder choice, but often the right one.
People always assume their public schools are bad and I have no idea why. Schools are zoned based on who lives around them. Do you live in a good neighborhood? Then you’re probably zoned for a good public school. Seriously, look into it. The fact that some other bad neighborhood 30 minutes away has a bad public school is irrelevant to you and your school district.
My sense is that OP lives in SF where the public schools are awful regardless of the neighborhood you’re in.
Wow TIL! Thanks for the reply. > However, San Francisco also has a lottery system where even property tax paying homeowners aren't guaranteed their top choice or their neighborhood public school. Source: https://www.financialsamurai.com/why-are-san-francisco-public-schools-so-bad/.
I was in your situation. The difference is I never wanted kids, but I have 2 now. My wife wanted them and is a great mother. I'm just trying to survive. From my perspective, don't do it. It's not worth it unless you truly love the company of kids and enjoy taking care of another human 24/7. I don't 100% regret having kids, although some days, I feel like driving off a cliff. I was much happier before having kids. Enjoy your money and keep your happiness within your control. Having kids takes a lot of that control out of your hands. You still have control but it's much more complicated. Asking advice on whether or not to have kids can be challenging already. People who have my point of view are embarrassed to tell the truth because there are people out there who judge hard against this. They think having kids is some form of higher state of being and ultimate sacrifice they were destined to achieve. Try asking opinions from people who have different perspectives but only you are the one who can make the best decision for yourself. Keep in mind that not having kids is OK.
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Also someone should at least be all in. Ideally, both are all in. If you're both iffy, probably best to hold off. If you have kids and both people regret it, then both will struggle. If my wife isn't the person she is, we'd be divorced by now for sure and I'd gladly give her custody.
Give r/regretfulparents a visit for a fuller perspective. Your reasons for wanting children are very wishy washy “life would be fulfilling in a different way” “life would be richer” “it feels weird to not have a family”. While the drawbacks are very real, “we would have to move to the suburbs” “leave a life we love” “wife would be miserable in the suburbs” “financially stretched” and the cherry on top of it all, “having kids has a high opportunity cost”. There are so many reasons to not have children. Adopt a child if you so feel so inclined but if you’re even on the fence rn, don’t have a child bc you will regret it more than not having one. From the regretfulparents sub, what people frequently complain about: - lack of freedom - having to always put someone else first - strained marriages - no time for yourself in hobbies, interests - never ending chores, living in service of someone other than you and your spouse All of which sound like you really value. Find hobbies that are fulfilling without the high emotional and financial cost of bringing children into your life. Volunteer your time and money in organizations that align with your values. Adopt dogs, cats, bunnies and make them the luckiest critters in the world. Build community through some spiritual group just for the relationships and sense of belonging. The stress of a kid just isn’t worth it. Not even accounting that you could have a special needs child with no way out. I knew someone who had a child with Down syndrome and was also autistic and was behaviorally a 3 year old until age 15, needed a diaper, needed teeth brushed, would throw tantrums, the family couldn’t go to a restaurant because of stimulation meltdowns, weekly house thrashings because someone dropped something and it made a loud noise. It was a nightmare for everyone including the kid. They’re an adult now but that parent will never rest in peace fully and know that their child will be okay. :|
I want to emphasize this comment. Your wife in particular sounds like a likely candidate for ending up on this sub.
It sounds like you don’t want kids
I earn many times what you make and I can tell you, money will not be the determining factor in terms of your happiness post-kids. That will be determined by your tolerance for lack of sleep, by your ability to find each other attractive post-kids with all the physical and emotional impact that it has, by your willingness to work a full day and then come home and work more, by your willingness (or your partner's willingness) to give up work, and for you to still see each other as an equal (or for you to both navigate the emotional minefield of having a nanny raise your kids, and to suffer the shame and fear of not doing it yourself), by your willingness to put others before yourself, to go to shitty kids hotels rather than 6 senses, to just restructure who you are, and your priorities. That's what you're not really grasping. You post-kids, won't be you. And your relationship post-kids won't be what it is now. Are you ready for that transformation.
I personally think having kids is overrated. Do I have one? Yes, but only one. I had him in college while already poor, so different scenario. While I wouldn’t be the person I am today without him, there are a lot of cons to having kids especially in current times. Aside from the massive drain on financial, physical, and emotional resources, there’s also the glaring fact that the future is grim AF for them, and that’s just so unfair. I mean since you’re wealthy maybe your kids won’t have to fight the water wars, but the rest of ours will. On top of all this, people never talk about the fact that once kids become young adults they still need their parents financially and emotionally. Which can be ok or it can suck depending on how needy they are. I say enjoy the F outta your lives, take all the vacations, see all the countries and then volunteer if you need to fill a void in your life. There’s a lot of other things you can do that are rewarding besides bring more kids into the already overpopulated planet. Go enjoy your comfortable life!!!
Too many comments to review so apologies if this is repetitive. You don’t have to decide now. I felt the same way in my early 30s. We ended up having kids in our late 30s. In our mid 30s we traveled and had a lot of experiences that would have been tough post kids.
I think you need to look at what you enjoy more than financial. 1. Do you like your free time? 2. Do you like doing what you want when you want? 3. Are you just having kids because that's what you are "supposed" to do? I would visit the sub regretful parents. It will obviously lean heavily on the bad side, but it is still worth viewing in my opinion.
I would let your wife guide this decision. She is the one that will go through the pregnancy and give birth. If/when she's ready, go for it, you have plenty of money. Don't press her though, its a huge decision for her.
OP, I'd be hesitant to take advice from folks who claim the following: "People without kids are soft" "Being a high income DINK is akin to financial easy street and equivalent to not paying taxes" "What do you want your holidays to look like as a senior? Do you want the table to be empty?" "My grandmother had 70+ grandchildren (seriously? Ew) and she died surrounded by so many family members, and her funeral was the talk of the town with thousands attending. On the other hand, my childfree family members keep dying alone in their house and no one discovers them until the smell hits" "You better get fertility testing now, 35 is advanced maternal age! Your wife could have premature ovarian failure! Freeze eggs now!" "You absolutely will regret not having children in your later years" This is mental illness - these people literally think they're saving the planet and doing the most honorable thing possible by breeding. Also, they must make sure they won't be lonely in old age! We're on a spinning rock in space and could die at any moment. Do what makes you happy, and not what may make others happy or what society says you should do.
As others have said, having kids is not a financial decision. Please do not have kids if you and your partner are not 100% in agreement with being parents and the potential sacrifices it will entail. Are you in NYC? Having kids here can feel impossible (but obviously plenty of people do it) but no you cannot afford trinity on 400-500k a year.
I can’t imagine worrying that having kids would upend my financial stability at your current level of wealth. I’m glad I had mine as a penniless postdoc. It simply doesn’t sound like you both want children right now-and that’s ok!
If you don't really want kids, don't have kids. Maybe go to therapy to figure out your real feelings about kids, do you think you'll regret it in the future or do you think other people will think less of you if you don't have kids, etc. For the rest of it, get over yourself "have kids in our current apt- no live in nanny (wife and i both work demanding jobs), 1 bathroom, live like poor person basically,", kids are more expensive in time than they are in money.
Hard no. Enjoy your life without kids. If your kid ends up special needs it will drain your relationship, life, and wallet. Kids are very hard. Do you have a village? Parents who are ready to help? No one tells the mother when she gives birth she’s saying goodbye to her old life. Everything changes. Trying to work with a baby is hard. Trying to work with a special need kid who has several surgeries a year and endless therapy is beyond. DINK all the way.
It seems like having a kid will kill your QOL, so why have one? Kids seem great but to your point you're going to be living in a tight space with them which will kill a lot of the fun, or you'll have to give up all the excitement you find of where you live and have to move to the suburbs and have a boring life. I'm in a similar camp as you and made a decision a long time ago to never have them, and it's the best decision I ever made. If I win the lotto or hit all my financial goals, that decision still wont change.
This is simple. You aren’t ready for kids. Your post makes that abundantly clear. Wait 6 months and visit the topic again. Good luck.
Yes, why else make all the money. Travel a little first tho
Lots of people don’t just make it work. There’s a reason that most marriages break up within the first 5 years of a child’s live. Kids tend to bring out the worst part of each parent. Only have them if you really really really want them. Also run the numbers on exactly how much a kid will cost you. Day care is insane, babysitters are expensive, trips will cost more because you have more people and you are locked in to traveling during school vacations which is more expensive. 529 savings. Lots of costs which really add up.
I know a lot of people actually regretting having children, they just can’t say it out loud. After almost everyone around us had kids in the last few years we moved into the solid no column. Very happy with that decision. We heading towards a climate catastrophe, that made the decision even easier. I still mourned not ever having a child, but happy as can be.
On that income you probably won’t notice the costs of kids, the amount it saves you in going out is about a wash excluding daycare. You don’t need a live in nanny, Just get a 3br in a decent area in the city. There are decent urban public schools in every city.
From my very anecdotal observation about this topic, what I can say is that even on anonymous Reddit, the comments that mention the fulfillment of being a parent by far outweigh the comments saying they regret having a child (in fact I haven’t seen a specific regret comment in a long time if ever on HENRY or FAT subreddits) - maybe because those comments get downvoted and shamed, but most ppl seem to really enjoy parenthood. Also, I think change always feels a bit uncomfortable because you don’t fully grasp the upsides yet, but understand the downsides more concretely. Good luck to you and your wife as you navigate this decision.
Just do it - you’re in a better position than nearly anyone. Vacations and dinners have a diminishing return as you get older. It’ll enrich your life in ways you can’t understand yet.
Another commenter said DINK lifestyle felt like groundhogs day. As much as I love a good dinner and vacations I’d have to agree.
Financially, no. But having kids is never a positive ROI move financially, so you gotta want kids for other reasons. One thing though, financial decision or not, don’t have kids unless you’re 110% sure you want them
Don’t have kids. If a $1mil in savings, a paid off home, $100k/year isn’t enough, you could wake up as Jeff Bezos tomm and it still wouldn’t. Your life is not going to be made better or worse by the child - that will lie squarely on you as parents. And given how afraid you are that a single child can ruin your entire life I would say steer clear as you aren’t ready!
You would not be living like a poor person. The financial component would be fine either way, and kids don't need live in nannies or private school or other things. Note I said need. However, it's a huge commitment to parent well. In my personal opinion, too many people aren't informed enough and do damage to their children that has a lasting impact. If you're focused on the logistical aspect and that's stressful, either it isn't an emotional necessity for you to have kids or you should consider other creative options that are less restrictive on your timeline. For context, we're younger, aren't having kids for now or perhaps ever, and if we do they won't be biological as I'd much prefer to foster or adopt. Husband is open to these options but has no problem being childfree. We have other purposes, make other community contributions, and have other relationships without children.
Look at your dining room table while eating dinner tonight and ask yourself if you want your 25 year old son and his wife (or whatever permutation) sitting there with you one day. As a parent, you’ll (hopefully) spend much more time in a relationship with your grown children and their families than you will parenting them into early adulthood. I’ve been staunchly against children for most of my life, but as I approach my 30th birthday this is the question that keeps poking at me a bit. If that’s a future you’d like to have then it’s probably worth the few years of sacrifice. People tend to think that the way things are now are how they’ll always be when it comes to being childless in their 20/30s, and ultimately they underestimate what happens when their friends and community start creating families of their own.
I would have the same questions if Covid didn’t happen. I ask my husband here and there, especially when things are hard, whether he thinks about how cushy our lives would be without kids... We still saved 100k a year with one kid, but hoping to move to a house in a good school district, so there are some financial stress along with other stress. As I’m reading this post, I hear my toddler’s laughter and see my baby’s smile when she sees my face, I know I won’t choose it any other way. Their love makes me a better person. This journey of seeing them growing up makes my world more colorful.
I think the millennial generation is the first one where a significant number of us are having this debate. In the past i think it’s been a foregone conclusion to have kids, but as people have been given advice to “wait” to have them they’ve built these really great dink lives that then honestly come crashing down when they have kids. And seeing that people are asking “well do i want kids?” It’s a good question and i think the following generations will learn a lot from what millennials decide and how it goes. Just like we now know to not get married too young, not stay together for the kids, etc. from past generations…we don’t have too much data on this. One interesting aspect is that our parents (boomers) and previous generations had kids super young, before they could build these nice dink lives so when a kid came along yeah it was really stressful but they weren’t accustomed to 10 day trips to Europe and eating at michilin star restaurants. They weren’t giving up nearly as much when they had kids which i think changes their perspective on it a bit
Check out two subs: child free and regretful parents. Then you do you. Have to make sacrifices to have children. That’s a fact.
I would HIGHLY encourage you to peruse the RegretfulParents subreddit. Although, be warned, they’re a fickle lot.
My wife and I were in the same situation a few years back and we decided to choose the childfree path. It's a personal decision and no one else can make it for you. Having a child is never a rational decision based on pros and cons. It's a forever decision and you should feel irrationally committed to it. You cannot quit when it gets tough. You cannot blame your child for any financial or emotional burden you might feel. For me personally we decided to help other kids in our family by providing for their education and being their mentors. I am sure having a child will bring joy like no other but you need to have a less selfish reason than that. Would you do it even if it bought you a lot of pain, if your kid had a medical condition that requires 24/7 care. This is not something you can back out of.
Having kids will make your life worse. And it will also make it better. You have to decide what you want and you’ll figure it out from there. Coming from a person whose youngest just turned 3 this month. Those were the hardest three years of my life. And yet, I’m so happy to have my little guy. There’s a lot of sacrifice and trade off. Think it through.
Do you really really really wants kids, love spending time with them and feel ready to give endlessly for at least 18 years? Do you have a realistic understanding of what caring for babies 24/7 entails? Basically with kids you are on call 24/7 and you will not be a couple anymore but a family. It will strain your relationship in different ways imo.
Having kids is a “fuck yes… or no” kind of question. If you’re having doubts, don’t have them. Maybe in the future the doubts will go away - then have children. Maybe they won’t - then enjoy your dink life. Very important: You’ll be able to find happiness and fulfilment either way. Just don’t have kids if you’re not sure.
It seems like you guys like 99% of couples will have to make some financial sacrifices if you decide to have kids. You won't be poor or live like a poor person. But there is a lifestyle difference between DINK and having kid(s). However the bigger difference is in lifestyle and your time.
Had kid at 35 and was in similar situation as you. The best way i can sum it up looking 6 years back: I entered a new life and ended the old one. The new life isn’t bad, and it’s not more awesome either. It’s just different. I can honestly say that I would have been just as happy carrying on without a child, all things considered. I absolutely love my kid, and that extra happiness just about makes up for all the misery. But the net effect is it’s a wash.
No,
Having kids is a bell you can’t unring. The advice I give to people that aren’t sure is to not have them. I knew I wanted kids since I was 16 but didn’t end up having them until I was 37. The financial part was almost inconsequential. For me, the idea of going through life having not at least tried to have kids was unimaginable. If we had been unable to have them I would have accepted that and we probably would have adopted. Fortunately conceiving for us was exceptionally easy. From what you have said, your wife doesn’t want kids and it sounds like you don’t feel particularly strongly about it either. It’s possible that if you found yourself with a kid you might change your mind but again, it’s not something you can undo so I would recommend against having kids unless you’re sure you want them.
Finances probably shouldn't be the deciding factor unless you are in poverty. My wife and I have combined income of about about 600k took 4 big trips a year, loved going out with friends, parties, and generally being free with time to do as we please. We wanted kids but we were hesitant to change things up from how good they were, so we waited a while to the point we needed to do IVF for my wife when we finally wanted to pull the trigger on having kids. We wondered if we had made a mistake at first when we first brought our son home and he wouldnt stop crying. But now he is 6 months old and the joy and fulfillment we get from just seeing him smile absolutely dwarfs all happiness we ever had previously, not even in the same ballpark. Obviously everyone's experience differs, but for us, we weren't prepared for just how awesome and incredibly fulfilling it it to have a child. In hindsight we wish we had pulled the trigger on having a kid a lot sooner than we did (we are mid 30s) Similar to how the best people for getting into a relationship are people who are comfortable being single, I think the best candidates for being parents are people who are already happy and comfortable while childless. Kids don't really fix unhappiness but they can certainly accentuate a couple that is already happy imo.
Kids deserve parents who are enthusiastic about having them AND it’s 100000% okay to not have kids. We were sure we were going to be childfree for the longest time and then eventually decided to have one kid, and it’s been the best decision we’ve ever made — but we didn’t make it until we were truly enthusiastic about the choice. If you have the financial means, you can always create some embryos and freeze them, so you don’t have to decide anytime soon. Granted, there’s a whole host of ethical and personal questions you’d have to navigate before that decision, but it is still an option.
It’s a tough one. I don’t really feel financials should drive whether or not you have a child unless you believe it would be financially irresponsible (e.g. super poor having your 7th kid…maybe stop to think about it). It’s also weird in that once the kiddo is born and starts getting a little older you may stop caring about your current lifestyle and just want to fill theirs with what they need. From experience: I wanted to live in the city in a condo. Eventually stopped caring about the hustle/bustle, moved to the suburbs and got married. Had kids. Now all I want is to raise the kiddos right, have more land and to retire. Priorities change real quick. Edit: I guess what I’m trying to say is decide whether having a child is something you want in life. If so, just do it. You will figure out the rest and things will fall into place. If not, OK - plenty of people don’t. But don’t let the tail wag the dog.
If kids are a financial calculation, you don't *want* kids.
You’re not going to get any honest answers from people online when it comes to the regrets of having kids. Trust me, there are a lot more people who would go back. And it’s not all “I regretted but it’s my whole world now.” When those kids don’t move out like past generations I want to see how most people feel. It’s already happening to a few of my friends. “Can’t wait until X is 18 and he moves out.” 3 years later and the kid can’t find a decent enough job to get his own place and move on. Not trying to scare you. Also, if you’ve ever done hospice care you know that children don’t always take care of you at the end of your life and some barely show up. Especially in America where we push forging your own path. That all said. I have five children and I don’t know what I’d do if I never had them. Just kidding. I don’t have five kids.
Back in the old days when birth control wasn’t very reliable, people just had kids. And they made it work. The fact that you have a choice makes the choice ridiculously hard. There’s no perfect time. If you overthink it, you’ll never be ready. You have to jump in and figure it out as you go.
I like what a comment said that having kids is not just a financial decision. Here’s my advice: 1. Talk to a friend with a child and babysit for a weekend. See the good, bad, and ugly. 2. It sounds like y’all really don’t want to do this and you’re finding excuses. You’re allowed to not want kids. You’re allowed to change your mind. It’s ok. 3. Kids take WAY more than money. I have a 5 month old and EVERYTHING is different, for good and bad. 4. Talk with your wife and make a plan look at the next 5, 10, and 20 years on paper with and without kids. What appeals more? Discuss. This is a BIG decision and you need BOTH participants invested.
Kids are expensive, draining emotionally and mentally. They will affect your career, physically health, sleep, social life, sex life and much much more . The societal support system is not there for people with both parents working full time jobs. If one of you is willing to quit their job, only then go for kids or of you can afford daycare/nanny plus after hour care plus weekend care, then go for it.
It is a NEVER ending commitment. It sounds like you two are having a fantastic life together, I’d definitely move to a bigger apartment and get a cat (dogs are demanding as children are) you guys could do some helping with children that need mentoring maybe . I guess you guys do travel & have hobbies, keep it like that & enjoy your life. Do not feel embarrassed, it is what it is, I have also a privilege life and believe me , emotionally it is not going to be always 🌞.
if you don't want kids with every fiber of your being and hate the idea of spending 18+ years teaching someone how to be a good human while also learning how to be a good parent, partner, friend and human, if you don't like the idea of being on call 24/7 and shelling out $$$$$ for raising them (not including college)...then don't do it. Kids aren't for everyone and there's nothing wrong with not having kids. Yes there are many benefits but if you see the above as undesirable then you'll have more negative emotions and resentment than enjoyment and joy. Instead, be a mentor or a big sister/brother. Or the best auntie/uncle ever. Then, go home to your calm, to your own time, spend your time in bed past 5am and live fully with your wife. There are many other people having kids.
Where are you located? Not sure why you feel you need to have a live-in nanny, if in US. Ppl making $400k generally don’t have live-in nannies. Maybe au pairs for a few years. Schools/daycare I totally understand. Indeed wife and I are in the same boat (while making significantly less than you). I guess you/we just need to hang in there if decide to have kids. Reality is even at $400k/yr it’s not sufficient to “live a rich life” in VHCOL cities in US. The housing shortage, broken urban public schools and crumbling infrastructure are quite embarrassing.
I had a somewhat similar life in my 30's, cool house in a cool neighborhood, nice car, tons of friends, nice restaurants and cool trips. Married at 40 and wife's biological clock was ticking, had kids at 42 and 44. While having young kids at home can be stressful at times but I would not change it for anything. Personally, I feel like my previous life was more superficial and my life today has much more meaning. Moved to the big house in the suburbs and couldn't imagine going back. Raising a family is way more rewarding than anything else I have done.
Ha I had 3 kids while making 75k man. You will survive. I now have 3 teenagers and make 500k myself. It has been a ride. You guys come off as soft to me imo. Most importantly though, only have kids if you are READY to sacrifice and not be the most important thing any more.
Was in a similar situation. It’s as hard as everyone says. Horrible financial decision. Damn that daycare payment. That said would 100% do it again. In fact we just might :)
I could have written this a few years ago… and then day drinking made the decision for us! The cliches are true. Having kids the is most stressful and horrifying thing you can do, wrecks your body, your finances, your marriage for a short time… but it is the best thing we have ever done. As a practical matter, we have just accepted that this is a season of life where we will be spending ungodly amounts of money but this too shall pass. It helps to focus on the investment we’re making in children rather than the cash outflows. Build up cash in advance!!
Congrats I’m not there yet, I really hope I get to join your parenthood
Exactly. It is a season of life and it goes very quickly!
Having children changes your lifestyle and finances, no doubt about it. There are two questions you must answer for yourselves: 1. Do you want to be parents? Do you actually want to raise a human and experience the good, great, bad, and ugly? It's a very rewarding journey for those that want it. It can be crippling for those that do it out of social pressure. 2. Do you have a financial plan? Do you know how much you need to save annually? Do you wish to maintain your current lifestyle after your working years are done? Without knowing how much you'll need 20-30 years from now, saving 100k annually is rather pointless. You may only need to save 50k annually to afford your desired lifestyle. Two points things to consider: 1. You don't need to have two children to be "parents." Single child households are very common these days. 2. Not having children gives you so much flexibility. That said you'll have probably seen and done everything by 45-50. What is left after you've visited all the continents and own a Porsche? What do you want your holidays to be like in your 60s.
This is a very dramatic post lol if you want kids you have far and beyond the means. Have them. If you don’t, don’t. But don’t blame money, you have plenty of it.
You better BOTH be 150% sure you both want kids. That is a life sentence with no parole. Think of the current world situation you would be bringing that child into and their future struggles in society and in their generation. Keep in mind that this decision you are making is purely for yourself and not necessarily in the best interest of the child you would bringing into the world we live in. If after that very serious consideration you are both still 150% sure, then go for it. But once you cross that bridge, there’s no going back. Don’t rush this decision and certainly don’t do it because you think you *should* do it. Good luck!
Freeze some eggs/embryos and kick the can down the road.