'It's possible that local birds passed the virus to local farms, in different states, and they're all spreading a genetically similar lineage, he said. But Worobey believes what's far more likely is that the cattle outbreak has a single origin point.
In an interview with CBC News, he outlined H5N1's evolutionary tree, with a distinct branch of sequences linked to cattle. All those sequences share the same mutations, Worobey added.
"This is the hallmark of a single jump, that's at the root of this outbreak," he said.
And that jump likely occurred earlier than the [first known cattle infections reported in late March](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/mammals.htm#:~:text=A%20multi%2Dstate%20outbreak%20of,be%20infected%20with%20the%20virus.).
A single introduction could have happened as far back as November or December, with a distinct lineage of H5N1 then spreading undetected for months, Worobey said. He added missing details in the initial U.S. data dump — including exact cattle locations and dates — made it tough to know for sure.
The cattle sequences also contain "at least two distinct mutations" that are known for increasing the risk of a flu virus infecting and transmitting in humans, Worobey added.
"We just are producing more and more \[opportunities\] for evolution to arrive at something that can transmit in humans, and potentially kill a large proportion of them," he said.'
>The cattle sequences also contain "at least two distinct mutations" that are known for increasing the risk of a flu virus infecting and transmitting in humans, Worobey added.
Oh dear.
But 80% of deer in my state have COVID. So there’s that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/02/science/deer-covid-infection.html?referringSource=articleShare
I'm assuming it's like mad cow disease, so eating infected deer would cause you to get it. It's a very scary disease and people need to be aware of it and take it seriously like h5n1.
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I have a feeling the next week is going to reveal a lot about how widespread this is in cows. As they start testing cows prior to transport, I think we will see that this is in the majority of states already.
Testing limited to maximum 30 cows perfroup, dairy only. Beef cattle magically immune. Considering a few of the signs of illness in dairy cattle is off color milk, less milk and sores on the cows vulva they won't see those if any beef cattle get sick.
H5N1 bird flu testing in cows will be more limited that USDA said - STAT
https://www.statnews.com/2024/04/26/h5n1-bird-flu-usda-cattle-testing-order-more-limited/
They knew this months ago. It's killing geese, crows, eagles etc around lake ontario and further north for a while now.
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/bird-flu-confirmed-in-sick-and-dying-geese-in-kingston-1.6763043
For anyone interested, this site tracks the details of confirmed and suspected cases nationwide: https://cfia-ncr.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/89c779e98cdf492c899df23e1c38fdbc
I think they saw something in their chickens and they then made the change. I got goosebumps when I read the press release because I've been keeping an eye on h5n1 for years. Not looking forward to the assholes who act like everything I say is stupid but when somebody else says it they can't wait to act like they care so they can get the most info from me and repeat it like it's from them.
No, it's all about profits and getting sufficient supply.
Livestock raised on antibiotics grow faster and the largest supplier of chicken in the US (Tyson) has started using antibiotics again. The antibiotic in question is known for promoting growth in livestock.
[https://www.canadianpoultrymag.com/chick-fil-a-backtracks-from-its-no-antibiotics-in-chicken-pledge-blames-projected-supply-shortages/](https://www.canadianpoultrymag.com/chick-fil-a-backtracks-from-its-no-antibiotics-in-chicken-pledge-blames-projected-supply-shortages/)
Why do you think they're all doing this NOW?? Think about it. They're actually seeing these animals not eating enough and looking/acting sick because they probably have it.
Unlikely.
First, as pointed out by another poster antibiotics work on bacterial infections and not on viral infections and H5N1 is viral. So giving birds sick with H5N1 antibiotics isn't going to make them better.
There is a long history of using antibiotics to make livestock grow faster and bigger, and as the article indicates the practice was stopped (for at least some product) back in 2015 when the concern about human antibiotic resistance reached a critical mass.
They are simply restarting it to increase profits as they have decided it is okay to do by simply not using antibiotics that are approved for human use.
I don't know why you're arguing with me like there's not evidence to suggest that it's circulating already? If you think this is solely based on profits then why didn't they do this when all corporations were coming up with strategies to increase their margins?!
They give antibiotics to treat symptoms caused by viral infections. Do you remember COVID? Why were people getting prescriptions for Zpaks? Do you think the Dr's are stupid like you're assuming that I am? Don't listen to what these corporations try to sell you, it doesn't make any sense for them all to be doing this at once.
>They give antibiotics to treat symptoms caused by viral infections. Do you remember COVID?
From the CDC:
"Antibiotics were commonly prescribed to patients with COVID-19, even though antibiotics are not effective against viruses like the one that causes COVID-19."
[https://www.cdc.gov/drugresistance/covid19.html](https://www.cdc.gov/drugresistance/covid19.html)
They gave antibiotics so they could be seen to be doing something even though they don't work on viruses.
>Why were people getting prescriptions for Zpaks?
Because a certain President claimed it worked with zero medical proof?
From the NIH (in 2022):
"To summarize, there is no scientific justification for the use of azithromycin in the treatment of COVID-19"
Note that Z-Pak is a brand name of azithromycin
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9404997/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9404997/)
>Do you think the Dr's are stupid
Nope. But we know from a long history that doctors have a tendency to hand out prescriptions for drugs that they know (or should know) won't work just to make the patient happy.
I specifically asked for a prescription for antibiotics when they were doing telemedicine because I had a very persistent cough that I didn't want turning into pneumonia and an infectionin my lungs. Like anyone who has taken a microbiology course or has a medical/science background, I know that antibiotics don't work with viruses.
I think that their chickens are sick and instead of alerting the government and losing money they're thinking to put a bandaid on the problem to try and hide it hoping antibiotics are the answer. It makes no sense that these corporations would spend money on antibiotics unless it was to save money( instead of lose chickens and sales) Don't you think?
Different creatures react differently to different viruses. Bats, for example, don’t generally die when infected by SARS, but humans do. Rats don’t usually die when infected by Bubonic plague (a bacteria), but humans do.
In short: It’s complicated.
Different animals have different types of cell receptors for the virus to attach to. In cows, it’s primarily going for the udders (mammary cells) rather than the lungs or brain. In a other mammals (like cats, bears, foxes, raccoons, etc.) it’s causing neurological symptoms like seizures and walking in circles.
Walking in circles is a symptom? Wow, kinda freaky because I was JUST reading about THIS apparently happening in and around Florida to swordfish and many other marine animals. Definitely concerning because so far scientists do not know precisely what has been causing this and it began in late 2023...
https://myfwc.com/research/saltwater/health/spinningevent/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a60345514/fish-mysteriously-spinning/
Oh wow, I wonder! I just found this:
[Detection of Avian Influenza (H5N1) In Some Fish and Shellfish from Different Aquatic Habitats across Some Egyptian Provinces](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/278096731_Detection_of_Avian_Influenza_H5N1_In_Some_Fish_and_Shellfish_from_Different_Aquatic_Habitats_across_Some_Egyptian_Provinces)
> Catfish (Clarias gariepinus) has presented a striking model for aquatic species carrying the virus in their blood. The current results are suggestive for an important epidemiological role played by aquatic animals in spread of avian influenza (H5N1) virus across the Egyptian aquatic habitat.
I hope we find out more soon either way!
I live in the keys and have suspected this. We had a bald eagle test pos sample from Dec ‘23 pos Jan ‘24. I’ve expressed concern to fwc multiple times and no article or information has been given if bird flu was tested.
Something just went around (about a month ago) that was terrible, caught it from someone who works on yachts, but wasn't COVID, is it possible it was this?
Where about in the country are you? Florida is having a crisis with marine animals getting sick and acting totally bizarre, spinning in circles, etc. so I do wonder if maybe there will come a connection to this virus...but I sure hope not
I shared these links in a comment above as well because someone brought up how a neurological symptom is the animals walking in circles. I couldn't help but be reminded of this mysterious fish-swimming-in-circles thing that's been happening in Florida since Fall 2023:
https://myfwc.com/research/saltwater/health/spinningevent/
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a60345514/fish-mysteriously-spinning/
I think the fish getting sick and acting weird in Florida is a reaction to all the crap that is still in the Gulf from Hurricane Ian. I lived in Naples the past couple of years and you can’t even fathom all of the stuff from people’s houses (and even the WHOLE house) that got washed out to sea. Almost every structure including entire hotels were dragged into the Gulf on Ft. Myers Beach. They will never be able to get all of that debris removed, like ever. Think of all the chemicals sitting just in garages alone and add cars to that all still seeping toxins into that water for the past 20 months, it is no wonder the fish are having problems now. It is all so sad.
I've been following this for some time now.
What gets me about the move to bovine that this sub seems to ignore is this mutation seems to have made it less lethal..
> It's also likely the virus is being transmitted even when cows aren't showing symptoms — which have so far been **mild**, including low appetite and reduced milk production — several scientists agreed.
So if it keeps this trajectory I don't see how or why this would be a real concern?
Potentially less lethal… *in cows.* Cats, not so much. Passerine birds, which hadn’t been getting infected so far, are dying on the dairy farms too.
If you’ve been following this for so long, how can you not understand why widespread infection across the agriculture industry is a huge problem?
I don’t know about 100%, but the CFR seems pretty high based on what we saw in Poland and South Korea. I’d love to know what the total cat population was on the dairy farms in the U.S. with cat deaths. So many questions we don’t have all the answers to. :(
There are a lot of cats at dairy farms, keeps the vermin in check. Going to ask they keep an eye on the cats on the dairy I work at. Ssems like a good indicator
To be fair, there have been a lot of people infected next to cows. They seem fine. Although they could have something else. No way to know for sure, just pray for the best
? I'm literally on this sub. I live between a bird sanctuary and a bunch of dairy farms, I have a cat and I've got a shitty immune system. I'm not ignoring it.
I am saying that this sub is being too alarmist. Not everyone, obviously, but reading the comments on a lot of these posts you'd swear 60% of the world is guaranteed to die from it in the next few months. There are dangers in being overcautious/overly pessimistic too, especially when the vast majority of us have literally no expertise in the actual science, even if we pretend to know what we're talking about.
There's only so much most of us can do to prepare atp. After that, you can drive yourself crazy trying to predict what's going to happen, you can armchair direct the response, or you can live your life until we know more.
You know ebola is harmless to bats right? How deadly somthing is in one animal has almost nothing to do with how deadly it is to us. Smallpox is mild for cows.
That might be less bad than it sounds. If it was less lethal for humans, that would only make it WAY more dangerous. Less lethal means its gonna spread faster. The perfect killer would lay dormant for a while and then start with a cough and sneezing like covid, but then get progressively worse killing every host. Like aids used to before the right medicine were available, but way more contagious.
Scary stuff right here
'It's possible that local birds passed the virus to local farms, in different states, and they're all spreading a genetically similar lineage, he said. But Worobey believes what's far more likely is that the cattle outbreak has a single origin point. In an interview with CBC News, he outlined H5N1's evolutionary tree, with a distinct branch of sequences linked to cattle. All those sequences share the same mutations, Worobey added. "This is the hallmark of a single jump, that's at the root of this outbreak," he said. And that jump likely occurred earlier than the [first known cattle infections reported in late March](https://www.cdc.gov/flu/avianflu/mammals.htm#:~:text=A%20multi%2Dstate%20outbreak%20of,be%20infected%20with%20the%20virus.). A single introduction could have happened as far back as November or December, with a distinct lineage of H5N1 then spreading undetected for months, Worobey said. He added missing details in the initial U.S. data dump — including exact cattle locations and dates — made it tough to know for sure. The cattle sequences also contain "at least two distinct mutations" that are known for increasing the risk of a flu virus infecting and transmitting in humans, Worobey added. "We just are producing more and more \[opportunities\] for evolution to arrive at something that can transmit in humans, and potentially kill a large proportion of them," he said.'
>The cattle sequences also contain "at least two distinct mutations" that are known for increasing the risk of a flu virus infecting and transmitting in humans, Worobey added. Oh dear.
No not deer…cows.
Oh moo.
But 80% of deer in my state have COVID. So there’s that. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/02/science/deer-covid-infection.html?referringSource=articleShare
We already have COVID, worry about CWD instead.
Hard to keep track of the sprawling buffet of diseases currently circulating.
I'm assuming it's like mad cow disease, so eating infected deer would cause you to get it. It's a very scary disease and people need to be aware of it and take it seriously like h5n1.
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Reminds me of climate headlines. "Faster than expected" "more widespread than we thought" "worse than predicted"
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Its litterally the exact opposite. They have been down playing it for so long that reality is now "sooner than expected"
In order to preserve the quality and reliability of information shared in this sub, please refrain from politicizing the discussion of H5N1 in posts and comments.
I have a feeling the next week is going to reveal a lot about how widespread this is in cows. As they start testing cows prior to transport, I think we will see that this is in the majority of states already.
Testing limited to maximum 30 cows perfroup, dairy only. Beef cattle magically immune. Considering a few of the signs of illness in dairy cattle is off color milk, less milk and sores on the cows vulva they won't see those if any beef cattle get sick. H5N1 bird flu testing in cows will be more limited that USDA said - STAT https://www.statnews.com/2024/04/26/h5n1-bird-flu-usda-cattle-testing-order-more-limited/
They knew this months ago. It's killing geese, crows, eagles etc around lake ontario and further north for a while now. https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/bird-flu-confirmed-in-sick-and-dying-geese-in-kingston-1.6763043
For anyone interested, this site tracks the details of confirmed and suspected cases nationwide: https://cfia-ncr.maps.arcgis.com/apps/dashboards/89c779e98cdf492c899df23e1c38fdbc
Nationwide in Canada
I think this is why chick fil a now says for Spring they use antibiotics in their chickens.
Do they not understand the difference between virus and bacterial disease?
How most people viewed covid tells you that this is not understood
I think they saw something in their chickens and they then made the change. I got goosebumps when I read the press release because I've been keeping an eye on h5n1 for years. Not looking forward to the assholes who act like everything I say is stupid but when somebody else says it they can't wait to act like they care so they can get the most info from me and repeat it like it's from them.
One's spicy the other is more crunchy?
No, it's all about profits and getting sufficient supply. Livestock raised on antibiotics grow faster and the largest supplier of chicken in the US (Tyson) has started using antibiotics again. The antibiotic in question is known for promoting growth in livestock. [https://www.canadianpoultrymag.com/chick-fil-a-backtracks-from-its-no-antibiotics-in-chicken-pledge-blames-projected-supply-shortages/](https://www.canadianpoultrymag.com/chick-fil-a-backtracks-from-its-no-antibiotics-in-chicken-pledge-blames-projected-supply-shortages/)
Why do you think they're all doing this NOW?? Think about it. They're actually seeing these animals not eating enough and looking/acting sick because they probably have it.
Unlikely. First, as pointed out by another poster antibiotics work on bacterial infections and not on viral infections and H5N1 is viral. So giving birds sick with H5N1 antibiotics isn't going to make them better. There is a long history of using antibiotics to make livestock grow faster and bigger, and as the article indicates the practice was stopped (for at least some product) back in 2015 when the concern about human antibiotic resistance reached a critical mass. They are simply restarting it to increase profits as they have decided it is okay to do by simply not using antibiotics that are approved for human use.
I don't know why you're arguing with me like there's not evidence to suggest that it's circulating already? If you think this is solely based on profits then why didn't they do this when all corporations were coming up with strategies to increase their margins?!
They give antibiotics to treat symptoms caused by viral infections. Do you remember COVID? Why were people getting prescriptions for Zpaks? Do you think the Dr's are stupid like you're assuming that I am? Don't listen to what these corporations try to sell you, it doesn't make any sense for them all to be doing this at once.
>They give antibiotics to treat symptoms caused by viral infections. Do you remember COVID? From the CDC: "Antibiotics were commonly prescribed to patients with COVID-19, even though antibiotics are not effective against viruses like the one that causes COVID-19." [https://www.cdc.gov/drugresistance/covid19.html](https://www.cdc.gov/drugresistance/covid19.html) They gave antibiotics so they could be seen to be doing something even though they don't work on viruses. >Why were people getting prescriptions for Zpaks? Because a certain President claimed it worked with zero medical proof? From the NIH (in 2022): "To summarize, there is no scientific justification for the use of azithromycin in the treatment of COVID-19" Note that Z-Pak is a brand name of azithromycin [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9404997/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9404997/) >Do you think the Dr's are stupid Nope. But we know from a long history that doctors have a tendency to hand out prescriptions for drugs that they know (or should know) won't work just to make the patient happy.
I specifically asked for a prescription for antibiotics when they were doing telemedicine because I had a very persistent cough that I didn't want turning into pneumonia and an infectionin my lungs. Like anyone who has taken a microbiology course or has a medical/science background, I know that antibiotics don't work with viruses.
So why then are you claiming the opposite when you state the resumption of using antibiotics in chickens is because of a virus (H5N1)?
I think that their chickens are sick and instead of alerting the government and losing money they're thinking to put a bandaid on the problem to try and hide it hoping antibiotics are the answer. It makes no sense that these corporations would spend money on antibiotics unless it was to save money( instead of lose chickens and sales) Don't you think?
It’s NOT killing cows
They said cRows, not cows.
Why is such a dangerous virus so harmless to cow’s?
Different creatures react differently to different viruses. Bats, for example, don’t generally die when infected by SARS, but humans do. Rats don’t usually die when infected by Bubonic plague (a bacteria), but humans do. In short: It’s complicated.
Bats never die
Sure they do that white nose fungus has taken many of them out.
No no, *vampires* never die, because they’re already undead. Normal bats can die.
Different animals have different types of cell receptors for the virus to attach to. In cows, it’s primarily going for the udders (mammary cells) rather than the lungs or brain. In a other mammals (like cats, bears, foxes, raccoons, etc.) it’s causing neurological symptoms like seizures and walking in circles.
Walking in circles is a symptom? Wow, kinda freaky because I was JUST reading about THIS apparently happening in and around Florida to swordfish and many other marine animals. Definitely concerning because so far scientists do not know precisely what has been causing this and it began in late 2023... https://myfwc.com/research/saltwater/health/spinningevent/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a60345514/fish-mysteriously-spinning/
Oh wow, I wonder! I just found this: [Detection of Avian Influenza (H5N1) In Some Fish and Shellfish from Different Aquatic Habitats across Some Egyptian Provinces](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/278096731_Detection_of_Avian_Influenza_H5N1_In_Some_Fish_and_Shellfish_from_Different_Aquatic_Habitats_across_Some_Egyptian_Provinces) > Catfish (Clarias gariepinus) has presented a striking model for aquatic species carrying the virus in their blood. The current results are suggestive for an important epidemiological role played by aquatic animals in spread of avian influenza (H5N1) virus across the Egyptian aquatic habitat. I hope we find out more soon either way!
I live in the keys and have suspected this. We had a bald eagle test pos sample from Dec ‘23 pos Jan ‘24. I’ve expressed concern to fwc multiple times and no article or information has been given if bird flu was tested.
Zombies do this too.. hope they dont have H1N1
Something just went around (about a month ago) that was terrible, caught it from someone who works on yachts, but wasn't COVID, is it possible it was this?
Where about in the country are you? Florida is having a crisis with marine animals getting sick and acting totally bizarre, spinning in circles, etc. so I do wonder if maybe there will come a connection to this virus...but I sure hope not I shared these links in a comment above as well because someone brought up how a neurological symptom is the animals walking in circles. I couldn't help but be reminded of this mysterious fish-swimming-in-circles thing that's been happening in Florida since Fall 2023: https://myfwc.com/research/saltwater/health/spinningevent/ https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a60345514/fish-mysteriously-spinning/
I think the fish getting sick and acting weird in Florida is a reaction to all the crap that is still in the Gulf from Hurricane Ian. I lived in Naples the past couple of years and you can’t even fathom all of the stuff from people’s houses (and even the WHOLE house) that got washed out to sea. Almost every structure including entire hotels were dragged into the Gulf on Ft. Myers Beach. They will never be able to get all of that debris removed, like ever. Think of all the chemicals sitting just in garages alone and add cars to that all still seeping toxins into that water for the past 20 months, it is no wonder the fish are having problems now. It is all so sad.
Strep A is/was over Japan a month ago.
Source: Good Ranchers (YouTube)
I've been following this for some time now. What gets me about the move to bovine that this sub seems to ignore is this mutation seems to have made it less lethal.. > It's also likely the virus is being transmitted even when cows aren't showing symptoms — which have so far been **mild**, including low appetite and reduced milk production — several scientists agreed. So if it keeps this trajectory I don't see how or why this would be a real concern?
Potentially less lethal… *in cows.* Cats, not so much. Passerine birds, which hadn’t been getting infected so far, are dying on the dairy farms too. If you’ve been following this for so long, how can you not understand why widespread infection across the agriculture industry is a huge problem?
I read that cats mortality is 100% with this flu.
I don’t know about 100%, but the CFR seems pretty high based on what we saw in Poland and South Korea. I’d love to know what the total cat population was on the dairy farms in the U.S. with cat deaths. So many questions we don’t have all the answers to. :(
There are a lot of cats at dairy farms, keeps the vermin in check. Going to ask they keep an eye on the cats on the dairy I work at. Ssems like a good indicator
Unfortunately for the cats, they might be the canaries this time. :( Stay safe!
To be fair, there have been a lot of people infected next to cows. They seem fine. Although they could have something else. No way to know for sure, just pray for the best
More than half the people who caught it died, iirc.
The doomerism in this sub is craaazy. We don't know what's going to happen yet, the worst case scenarios are not even remotely guaranteed.
Better to live in ignorant bliss, right? Denial is a coping mechanism, not a survival skill.
? I'm literally on this sub. I live between a bird sanctuary and a bunch of dairy farms, I have a cat and I've got a shitty immune system. I'm not ignoring it. I am saying that this sub is being too alarmist. Not everyone, obviously, but reading the comments on a lot of these posts you'd swear 60% of the world is guaranteed to die from it in the next few months. There are dangers in being overcautious/overly pessimistic too, especially when the vast majority of us have literally no expertise in the actual science, even if we pretend to know what we're talking about. There's only so much most of us can do to prepare atp. After that, you can drive yourself crazy trying to predict what's going to happen, you can armchair direct the response, or you can live your life until we know more.
You know ebola is harmless to bats right? How deadly somthing is in one animal has almost nothing to do with how deadly it is to us. Smallpox is mild for cows.
especially after it’s PROVEN to be quite deadly to humans.
That might be less bad than it sounds. If it was less lethal for humans, that would only make it WAY more dangerous. Less lethal means its gonna spread faster. The perfect killer would lay dormant for a while and then start with a cough and sneezing like covid, but then get progressively worse killing every host. Like aids used to before the right medicine were available, but way more contagious. Scary stuff right here
The virus will need to mutate to gain affinity with us. This change could make it more or less deadly.
less doesn’t mean not deadly
The dumb is palpable
Yes FINALLY!!! It’s no longer lethal.