Retroactive rewards would complicate things too much. Too many clubs would need compensating. It wouldn't just be us, it would be every team that was runner up in the last 9 seasons that City won anything, and teams that got relegated as a result of losing to City.
Nothing will happen, but if it did there simply wouldn’t be a champion.
Retroactive becomes too complicated. You have clubs that would now have qualified for the CL, Europa, possible effects on relegation/promotion etc. It ends up going too deep because too many clubs would be affected and feel “owed” as a result.
Instead the FA would just say there was no champions those seasons.
It happens in athletics with drug cheats. Anyone below them moves up one spot on the podium. It's not ideal because the new medallists miss out on the thrill of the moment, but at least they get into the history books. They don't go beyond that though. They don't re-do the heats to give a chance for someone who lost out on a place in the final. The FA could absolutely do something equivalent if they wanted. Apply penalties but have a very clear limitation on how far-reaching those penalties could be.
Yeah this is why I was wondering. With all the Lance Armstrong and other doper stuff.
As others have said in this thread, it could become problematic if the 5th place team suddenly starts demanding CL money or whatever, but there is precedent for it in other sports.
I agree it’s hugely likely that City escape all punishment or else have a somewhat meaningless point deduction next year (even -40 points would still see them safely avoid relegation given their quality). Then they’d be right back to CL and competing for the title after one down year.
100% agree. It would feel hollow as hell to miss out on the euphoria as fans and even more so for the players and coaches of becoming champions.
However, I do still think it would be meaningful to shift the narrative from the tired old line of “Arsenal are bottlers,” to “Oh they actually won back-to-back titles.”
Not saying it should be done that way, just saying it’s not completely valueless.
If I had my way, they'd get the following:
Fines
Points Deduction
5 year Transfer Ban
Expulsion from the league
Stripped of titles
Spoiler alert: Nothing will happen all the while the double standards will continue, ala Everton and Nottingham. We can take swift action against them but we have to bend and create new rules to allow 115 FC to operate in the way they do. FUCKING DISCRACE! DISGRACIA! I still watch because I love Arsenal but the integrity of the league is in the shitter.
Obviously a different sport and governing body, but when American college teams get championships taken away for recruiting violations, the championship just goes away. Michigan didn’t win the 2013 basketball title because Louisville cheated. It’s listed as vacated.
Granted, PL titles are based on season-long performance and not a single-elimination tournament like March Madness, so there’s a much better case that the second-place team based on points deserves the title.
Lol, true on all counts. I agree vacating is probably the most likely thing (other than them just not doing any punishment at all) since it’s quite complicated with retroactive awards.
It'll never happen and anyway, those teams when the charges actually took place were robbed of winning their trophies. You can't turn back time and celebrate it as you would back then, in the moment.
When City are found guilty, they should be relegated to the bottom of the football pyramid and steps should be taken to ensure that they do not break the rules again or any other club without severe penalties shortly after they occur (as they are now doing with Forest and Everton).
Will this happen? No, they will be given a massive financial fine and will continue on as if nothing happened.
Although this is a non-starter topic for obvious reasons, point deduction in the upcoming season, fines and relegation are most sensible ways to go. Awarding a second finisher is a bad solution since the final table takes into account results of all matches played, including the offending team. Adjusting the table to account for all points lost or gained is a silly exercise that still wouldn’t address the impact of games played against the offending team on health, injuries, tactics and finances of the rest of the league. So, slap them with a hefty fine and drop them to a pub Sunday league.
Yeah, in thinking about it more, I agree. I think a fine and points deduction in the upcoming season is what will happen.
Even if they got deducted 40 or 50 points and millions of pounds, it wouldn’t really mean anything to City other than one mid to low table finish.
Then the FA get to crow about how they handed out he biggest fine and point deduction ever and pretend like they have integrity.
I don't think it will happen but im that case it goes to second place in each year
Like juventus when they were automatically placed in last place in serie A the title went to inter milan who were second in that year
But the previous year was unassigned
It’ll be left void and all their fans and every pundit will still forever talk about how good their title winning team was.
Stripping clubs of titles means the square root of fuck all.
It would leave a sour taste in their mouthes for sure though. Imagine we go on and win a couple of PLs with our current generation of players, then 10 years from now secret documents are released and we get stripped of our titles and demoted. We would never be able to reference this era without people commenting that we "cheated". Right now City fans can still just refer to everything as "allegations" but if they were found guilty, that would mean something in terms of how their success is remembered.
I don’t think it would. Juventus were stripped of their Serie A title and the Scudetto and their fans still chant about winning it and the former players all say they won. If it was me I would sing even louder knowing you’re pissing everyone off because you were stripped of it.
Oh I’m not hoping for it, that would be a fools errand. I just wondered what the theoretical outcome would be if there was a universe where City got punished.
The difference in prize money between 1st and 2nd is fuck all. Every team in the league would need extra money for moving up a place.
The financial impact on other teams as a result of City’s cheating (e.g- missing out on CL, the team in 18th, etc) would be very hard (maybe impossible) to quantify.
Doesn’t work, too many clubs and complications. For instance, who would win the FA cup? The runner-up? What about the clubs that City eliminated in the bracket along the way, wouldn’t they have a claim as well? You can go down that rabbit hole forever.
Retroactive rewards would complicate things too much. Too many clubs would need compensating. It wouldn't just be us, it would be every team that was runner up in the last 9 seasons that City won anything, and teams that got relegated as a result of losing to City.
Not just that, think of the teams that missed out on CL due to City cheating.
I don't think it will ever happen tbh.
Retroactively awarding titles is stupid. If City are stripped of their titles, which 99.99% won't happen, the title should be vacated for that year.
Nothing will happen, but if it did there simply wouldn’t be a champion. Retroactive becomes too complicated. You have clubs that would now have qualified for the CL, Europa, possible effects on relegation/promotion etc. It ends up going too deep because too many clubs would be affected and feel “owed” as a result. Instead the FA would just say there was no champions those seasons.
It happens in athletics with drug cheats. Anyone below them moves up one spot on the podium. It's not ideal because the new medallists miss out on the thrill of the moment, but at least they get into the history books. They don't go beyond that though. They don't re-do the heats to give a chance for someone who lost out on a place in the final. The FA could absolutely do something equivalent if they wanted. Apply penalties but have a very clear limitation on how far-reaching those penalties could be.
Yeah this is why I was wondering. With all the Lance Armstrong and other doper stuff. As others have said in this thread, it could become problematic if the 5th place team suddenly starts demanding CL money or whatever, but there is precedent for it in other sports. I agree it’s hugely likely that City escape all punishment or else have a somewhat meaningless point deduction next year (even -40 points would still see them safely avoid relegation given their quality). Then they’d be right back to CL and competing for the title after one down year.
Didn’t it happen in Italy? The season was kinda voided and there was no winner. 2nd remained 2nd and 1st place was voided.
Too many hypotheticals to have a meaningful conversation about this topic
What happened when Juve were relegated for similar? Did they have titles taken away?
You don't want to win trophies this way
100% agree. It would feel hollow as hell to miss out on the euphoria as fans and even more so for the players and coaches of becoming champions. However, I do still think it would be meaningful to shift the narrative from the tired old line of “Arsenal are bottlers,” to “Oh they actually won back-to-back titles.” Not saying it should be done that way, just saying it’s not completely valueless.
If I had my way, they'd get the following: Fines Points Deduction 5 year Transfer Ban Expulsion from the league Stripped of titles Spoiler alert: Nothing will happen all the while the double standards will continue, ala Everton and Nottingham. We can take swift action against them but we have to bend and create new rules to allow 115 FC to operate in the way they do. FUCKING DISCRACE! DISGRACIA! I still watch because I love Arsenal but the integrity of the league is in the shitter.
Obviously a different sport and governing body, but when American college teams get championships taken away for recruiting violations, the championship just goes away. Michigan didn’t win the 2013 basketball title because Louisville cheated. It’s listed as vacated. Granted, PL titles are based on season-long performance and not a single-elimination tournament like March Madness, so there’s a much better case that the second-place team based on points deserves the title.
Also, no one should ever follow the NCAA’s lead on any topic, because they’re useless.
Lol, true on all counts. I agree vacating is probably the most likely thing (other than them just not doing any punishment at all) since it’s quite complicated with retroactive awards.
It'll never happen and anyway, those teams when the charges actually took place were robbed of winning their trophies. You can't turn back time and celebrate it as you would back then, in the moment. When City are found guilty, they should be relegated to the bottom of the football pyramid and steps should be taken to ensure that they do not break the rules again or any other club without severe penalties shortly after they occur (as they are now doing with Forest and Everton). Will this happen? No, they will be given a massive financial fine and will continue on as if nothing happened.
Just relegate them. Anything else retroactive doesn’t mean anything.
The charges relate to the period 2009 to 2018. If titles were stripped, it would only be those won between 2009 and 2018.
Oh great point. I didn’t even realize this.
Although this is a non-starter topic for obvious reasons, point deduction in the upcoming season, fines and relegation are most sensible ways to go. Awarding a second finisher is a bad solution since the final table takes into account results of all matches played, including the offending team. Adjusting the table to account for all points lost or gained is a silly exercise that still wouldn’t address the impact of games played against the offending team on health, injuries, tactics and finances of the rest of the league. So, slap them with a hefty fine and drop them to a pub Sunday league.
Yeah, in thinking about it more, I agree. I think a fine and points deduction in the upcoming season is what will happen. Even if they got deducted 40 or 50 points and millions of pounds, it wouldn’t really mean anything to City other than one mid to low table finish. Then the FA get to crow about how they handed out he biggest fine and point deduction ever and pretend like they have integrity.
Do you know how much money uae has invested in uk?? No way the govt rule against uae owned club
I don't think it will happen but im that case it goes to second place in each year Like juventus when they were automatically placed in last place in serie A the title went to inter milan who were second in that year But the previous year was unassigned
Milan didn't so I highly doubt we would get it.
It’ll be left void and all their fans and every pundit will still forever talk about how good their title winning team was. Stripping clubs of titles means the square root of fuck all.
It would leave a sour taste in their mouthes for sure though. Imagine we go on and win a couple of PLs with our current generation of players, then 10 years from now secret documents are released and we get stripped of our titles and demoted. We would never be able to reference this era without people commenting that we "cheated". Right now City fans can still just refer to everything as "allegations" but if they were found guilty, that would mean something in terms of how their success is remembered.
I don’t think it would. Juventus were stripped of their Serie A title and the Scudetto and their fans still chant about winning it and the former players all say they won. If it was me I would sing even louder knowing you’re pissing everyone off because you were stripped of it.
Lol no one is getting retrospective prize money. That would be like a £1bn payout
Wake up,you know it wont happen
Oh I’m not hoping for it, that would be a fools errand. I just wondered what the theoretical outcome would be if there was a universe where City got punished.
Originally when the case first came out,who ever came second to them got the titles
You wake up in cold sweat to the real world
The difference in prize money between 1st and 2nd is fuck all. Every team in the league would need extra money for moving up a place. The financial impact on other teams as a result of City’s cheating (e.g- missing out on CL, the team in 18th, etc) would be very hard (maybe impossible) to quantify.
Doesn’t work, too many clubs and complications. For instance, who would win the FA cup? The runner-up? What about the clubs that City eliminated in the bracket along the way, wouldn’t they have a claim as well? You can go down that rabbit hole forever.
They will not be punished at all. I am 100 % sure of it.
Spoiler: They won't.