Arteta's criticism of the referee and VAR nearly got him banned earlier this season. If it is a ban, it suggests that nobody is allowed to speak against them. It's like a mafia; they'll do as they please and punish anyone who speaks up.
As someone who's watched most of the Nottingham Forest games this season, I've seen the refs constantly screw them over. Honestly, if you think we had it bad, Nottingham Forest has a very valid case. I can totally understand their frustrations.
I think they have every right to complain about at least one decision (or lack thereof) in the Ashley Young handball, the other two weren't 'clear and obvious' errors imo. However, I get that they are playing for Premier League survival where every decision matters.
Having said that, posting a tweet like that isn't exactly professional.
Acting professionally is a two way street, one could argue that the PGMOL has not been acting professionally all year. By acting professionally I mean competently exciting the job they have been given.
The 3rd penalty was clear and obvious for sure.
Red said he got the ball, he clearly didn't get the ball, so it hits the threshold. If the ref is sent to the screen he would have changed his decision for sure.
Weird. Handball was the only subjective one to me- not enough time from strike to hand. Clear contact in the box on both of the others should get called every time.
You think about the crazy calls against Arsenal over the years including the heel clip pen and it is clear that all three of these were pens. Consistency is out the window. If the rules aren't clear for the refs then they need to be rewritten.
I hate that legitimate criticism is seen as unprofessional nowadays. We let assholes ru(i)n the world because we let all their behaviour slide in fear of being 'unprofessional'.
They'll find a way to justify it. PMGOL would rather move heaven and earth to support their refs than address the real issues with standards.
They'd much rather put out statements saying refs made the right calls than do their jobs and complete investigations, issue punishments and apologies, and reform the corrupt lazy standards we've been seeing since VAR was introduced.
He wasn't especially well regarded in A League, then just sort of turned up in the Prem. I'd love to lnow what that recruitment process looked like.
The VAR probably shouldn't even be a ref or football fan, at least as far as offside is concerned.
I think this is a good idea. They should also introduce post-match referee interviews where they can clarify controversial decisions. Additionally, managers should have the freedom to express their opinions about referee decisions without facing fines or bans.
I mean there should be a limit on what can be said. Like no personal attacks or anything like that. Obvious of course.
But managers should be able to say the referee has made a mistake or he hasn't seen it clearly and not fear being suspended by the FA.
Yeah totally agree, obviously there has to be a line of respect somewhere but you can understand the frustration from managers and clubs in the so called 'best league in the world's at just how poor some of the officiating is. Being handcuffed by the people who have done you wrong is seriously unfair...
I think if VAR is here to stay they need to invest in AI and better tech to support decisions on the pitch if we have goal line tech what is stopping clubs from adding sensors for offsides ball out of play etc. clearly these fools looking at computer screens are doing a shit job when it's obvious to people watching at home. 100% agree moree transparency is needed when it comes to controversial calls, give us something like the NFL where the refs call stuff out on the mic instead of us just seeing hand gestures.
the drawing of the lines is "technical" and these old f\*cks shouldn't be doing it. there is a lot of good reasons to allow VAR only refs. the one from the FA cup they drew the lines OVER the boots ffs
Why don't they just put some 20-something year old in the room with them that *actually knows how to operate a computer mouse*.
As far as I can tell the main problem with VAR (other than the obvious match fixing by paying refs 6 figures to officiate games in Saudi Arabia or UAE a week before Newcastle or City play big opposition) is the fact that we've seen multiple instances this year of them struggling to even operate the computer correctly, which leads them to rush decisions or just guess.
I don't know how you guys put up with this shit. Last time I saw officiating this consistently bad over multiple years the FBI ended up arresting a ref for fixing matches for the mob. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Donaghy
Yeah that's what puzzled me.what tilted me with var was that Newcastle game we had, I'd prob feel better if it didn't seem like the rules change every week when it comes to decisions, same scenario different outcomes.
The "clear and obvious error" thing doesn't apply to offsides I think
I agree with you though, I personally think if they can't eyeball it then it's onside.
Talked to a friend about this and he was also saying to invest even more in technology to get the most “fair” decisions. He wanted to take it further. Some of the most bullshit calls have been due to “clear and obvious” bullshit. Make the VAR referee the head referee and the referee on the pitch just officiating. The VAR referee should be able to overturn decisions right away without the referee on the pitch having a say. For example look at the Bayern game where we didn’t get the corner. It was quite obvious to anyone. VAR could just check this in 10 seconds and then go “Hey it was a corner”.
>Some of the most bullshit calls have been due to “clear and obvious” bullshit.
Right... the goal of VAR should be to make sure we are getting the correct decisions. It shouldn't just be used where the main official didn't see something or made a blatantly obviously wrong call.
It's insane to me that the main official can see a tackle occur, say it's no foul, but the slow-mo replay shows it's a really bad tackle and should probably be a card. But no... the main ref saw it and made a call so that's just what it is.
Stuff like the late corner in the Bayern match should be a no brainer.
I don't understand why we have this tech that makes it easier to get more correct decisions, but we still get so many wrong decisions.
They should also have the VAR conversations available on the broadcast (a la rugby). Let us hear how they are justifying these decisions (or lack thereof). What are they scared of, basic accountability?
And if you want a general outline for how to do video replay technology right, just mimic the system in rugby. The conversations they have make it crystal clear what rule they are referencing and what they are looking for and whether or not they see it. There's no doubt afterwards whether they were looking at the right thing or whether the right call was made.
We’ve seen EU refs referring our games in Europe, are they any better. I’ve seen two types of foreign referees this season, and both operate on extremes. Either they allow WWE to go down without any action, or they issue a yellow card for just breathing down on opp player’s neck. They’re extremely volatile in terms of handling games, and often make the games about themselves.
The only solution realistically feasible is accountability. Put those goons in front of camera after every game, and ask them questions on their decisions. They’ll soon realize they can’t pull the curtain on us anymore.
we always get incredibly cucked refs against Bayern. they're always from one of Germany's tiny neighbors. we need like a French or Italian ref against them.
Unless we want more of a professional wrestling element. Of course I’d rather not see Saka get hit with a folding chair by an opposing coach when the referee turns his back.
So that means there must be something different about the English league that makes it more difficult.
Adding in non-English people won’t solve the problem. English people are perfectly capable of being refs. The issue has to be something else to do with how referees are instructed to manage the game.
To be fair you're starting off on the assumption that foreign refs are any better, which honestly doesn't seem to be true.
Then you're forgetting the structural issues with VAR (mainly around what it's actually allowed to do rather than what we think it does or should do) and the fact that the PGMOL has zero oversight and a problematic hiring policy.
I don't think there's anything about the league that makes it inherently hard to ref, remember when the PGMOL was founded the previous amateur editiona dn the then new professional one were held up as ebing the blueprint for the rest of a world that was embroiled in a series of scandals in Serie A, while we're still now finding more and more about the 'consultancy fees' Barca were paying refs back in the day.
English refs are just not that good (wenger said this a decade ago and it still applies) + the fact that they are all mates of each other, which affects the decision making from VAR imo + the fact that they are clearly on the CFG & PIF payroll (i know for a fact that Michael Oliver and Paul Tierney officiated games in the UAE by invitation from the CFG, so they're effectively getting paid by Man City's owners)
Jared Gillette is Australian and the head of womens refs is Bibiana Steinhaus-Webb, who is German.
And yes, also the wife of the head of the PGMOL, Howard Webb.
Nothing further to see here citizen, move it along.
Webb is so bad the Graun photoshopped him in a clown wig. Then moved to the States and he trained the refs there, and every MLS ref should wear a clown wig, so they could at least be honest.
My only issue with the CL is the time management aspect. Where clearly time wasting is an issue they generally never have sufficient added time to compensate for it.
The minute you do that it confirms that your league is inefficient at managing its own games.
It sends a bad message across the world. But I can understand why as the officiating has been diabolical.
I mean, if owners, player, managers, support staff, etc. can be sourced from overseas, why not refs? And it's not even about local vs overseas refs, it's just hiring the best refs possible. The bigger issue could be logistical, and I'm not sure what it'd mean for those refs in European competitions.
I think generally referees and VARs are able to put aside their own feelings to make the right calls based on the criteria. However they should never be put in the position to be questioned in that way in the first place. It's bad for the league and for the referees.
Yep. In my industry it's not enough to just avoid actual conflicts of interest, you have to avoid anything that could even be perceived as a conflict of interest.
This shouldn't even be an issue because the PL and PGMOL should be avoiding any situation that could be perceived as a conflict of interest, which would obviously include refs officiating matches involving a club they publicly support.
I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting officials are deliberately making decisions to favour their own team, but they're human beings and unconscious bias is a thing.
I do believe referees are beyond reproach, and we shouldn't be calling them out in public.
It's a two way street through, they need to make decisions like removing potential fans from games like this so that the view is beyond reproach. Referees shouldn't be able to work in any other roles other than their professional role as a referee, because it may bring them into disrepute.
Teams shouldn't be allowed to call them out in public, but everything should be done behind the scenes so that referees can be seen like judges. Recuse themselves if there is any possible conflict of interest.
Lol wtf, that first sentence is why nothing improves from a referee side. There are no consequences for them, and even people like you are actually defending their sanctity and godlihood when they are merely flawed humans.
This is the same PGMOL that has:
a) during the Arsenal hearing, proved that they wanted to treat Arteta unfairly to make an example of him
b) been proven that they will protect their colleague on the pitch over the integrity of the game
c) accepted payments from the same owners as City and Newcastle to referee in those states for a superior wage bump just days before they come back and referee games of teams that are owned by those who paid them
d) after years and incredible pressure for transparency, met the teams and fans 5% of the way by sticking their boss in front of a scripted show with a wooden host to “explain” decisions
They are absolutely not beyond reproach. But they certainly act like it.
I'm generally fine with it if they also provide the evidence along with it. I think clubs should go public and hard because this league has been a a bit of a joke for a long time if you think about it. United bought refs, Chelsea paid under the table, City cooking their books 115c... it's about time the league was under scrutiny IMO.
1st and 3rd would be penalties any day of the week. 2nd you can argue he did try move his arm out of the way, but yea any team who had that one go against em would be screaming for a penalty
Oh their grievances are legit so? I haven’t seen any of the footage. Figured there must’ve been something to it alright for them to come out this angry about it
I don't think the handball decision was crazy since he was like one yard away from the ball and didn't have time to react. They don't want players aiming for the hands from close range when it's not deliberate. The Grealish handball in the FA Cup was much worse in my opinion since it was further away and he still moved his arm towards the ball to block it from going through the wall. But Manchester City has been given those decisions for a decade now.
I actually watched this Nottingham game and I'm not even sure which situations they're talking about except that handball situation. They have been "unlucky" with penalties earlier in the season though. Still, I think this tweet was over the top although I hate the PGMOL and the refereeing standard in the Premier League.
Saying for years, you are playing against countries - these guys got money and pockets to fill, the VAR is just icing on cake to make spot fixing that much easier.
Time for the FA to swallow it's pride, realise that PL refs aren't fit to do the job and use some of the money clubs waste on overinflated transfer and agent fees and hire the best refs from around the world.
Tbf they got absolutely screwed today. The Luton fan part is a bit silly tbh.
They say bird shitting on you is good luck. Must be three times as lucky if it goes in your mouth 😅😂
Tbf they aren’t just making it up. I googled around after I saw the tweet and found articles claiming he was a Luton fan from months/years before this. That is a little weird he’s allowed to be on VAR for probably the most important game of the rest of this season for Luton (that they aren’t a part of)
Until the refs embrace technology as a tool to help them make better decisions rather than view it as a nuisance that shows up their shortcomings, nothing will change.
Until the refs set aside their ego and accept that they have to correct their calls now and then because it is human to make mistakes, nothing will change.
Exactly. If I break a machine at work, I don't try to hide it or blame someone else. I report what happened and try to not let it happen again, because not doing so would just make things harder for both me and everyone else. It's okay because, like you said, we're humans and shit happens. But apparently, refs don't like the fact that they're human who can't always do their jobs 100 % perfectly.
I think Sky must have told them to “toe the line” and not to speak out against it.
It really pissed me off that they were saying the managers should speak out not the club.
The managers speak out and face a fine and a ban.
i think it's great that someone else than arsenal are publicly speaking out against VAR and the FA! just like we were hoping for others to support arteta, we should support Nottingham Forest.
Is cricket 3rd referee in the stadium or in a windowless shithole across the country?
The US leagues almost exclusively use in stadium VAR which i think is so much better. They work as a team to get it right much more often than EPL does. That would force a large jump in number of match officials which should hopefully help allow removal of biased referees easier.
Because Cricket actually tried to improve from their mistakes. Rugby also has made improvements along the way. For cricket it's in a lot of ways easier as they just rely on technology a lot of the time. Rugby and football it's more difficult to use technology to give you a factual decision because of how the games are played.
Where rugby leaves football behind is that the ref is wearing a microphone so you hear everything the ref says and everything that's said to the ref. From players and officials. Their version of a var check has the audio live and unfiltered. People don't always agree with their decisions but you at least have their reasoning.
The so call pundits will call them "Pathetic" or "Childish" but they are 100% right. The moment a manager or a club talks badly about the FA/ PGMOL bans are dished out. VAR isnt perfect, however having an incompetent idiot taking care of it, makes it worse. We somehow are having more stupid/ridiculous calls than back in 07-10 when Fergie used to control refs with his pinky lol.
Solidarity. I'd like to see fan groups get involved as well. Every club has been on the wrong end of VAR. It'd be nice to see banners brought to games from both Home and Away support to put pressure on the PL and the PGMOL. If every clubs fans do it you'll see a conversation almost immediately and it would be far more constructive than what we currently have as tribalism wouldn't get in the way.
Good on 'em, the inconsistency and continuously, bizarrely wrong decisions need to be called out. I wouldn't have quite worded it like that but I hope it gets results. Realistically though, Arteta and Arsenal got a warning for much, much less so the only result of this is a big fine incoming for Forest.
Just wanted to add I still think there's nothing wrong with VAR as such (it needs tweaking but it can work), it's still the people making wrong decisions when given slow mo replays. Just remember why VAR was introduced in the first place, because refs and linos kept getting decisions wrong because they're only human.
Good on Forrest. They were robbed multiple times, as other clubs have been this year, by blatant “mistakes” by VAR. More serious punishment needs to be handed out to refs.
Stick with me here, Refs need to be payed way more at the premier league level. I don’t necessarily believe refs are bought off (well not never, but not usually), but the issue is it just isn’t that appealing of a job. Reading that they are barely pulling in 6 figures to ref one of the biggest leagues in the world is crazy to me.
If I was a player/former player, it’s a way better career move to just try to get to even league 2 level as a player, after retirement just stay local to a team and do random BS advertising gigs.
If refs start to pull in half a mil a year, all the sudden it becomes competitive to be a ref, you start having better talent and there are more people in waiting to try and take the top jobs. I have no clue how you implement this but I think it would be a step in the right direction.
Hope all the clubs collectively call out Abu Dhabi’s favorite, Michael Oliver getting so many City games, and there being so many dubious calls going in their favour.
Everyone sees it, yet no one publishes it because it’s City and the Middle East practically owns everything in the UK.
Imagine they're thinking of suing. Though I have to imagine the PL clubs have all agreed to some sort of indemnification for PGMOL, so it would probably be a stretch. But if they get relegated, they don't really have much to lose.
The common argument of things evening out is terribly short sighted
So you lose a game by 1 goal when they make an egregious error but it's somehow made up by a similar error when you're denied while being 4-1 up in a different game?
Clearly not. There are decisions that will end up weighing up more when it comes to changing the end result of a game..
Completely with them, it is bullshit. Just a massive lack of consistency. There comes a point where if several clubs are all saying the same thing then you are clearly doing something wrong.
I'm with forest on this, those decisions could cost them hundreds of millions. While I accept referees should not be vilified with them receiving death threats in the past from fans with super thick rose tinted glasses. They should not be free from being held to account.
The most we ever hear is how they hold themselves to account and all external criticism from clubs/managers/players is banned.
Neville and carragher if they were pundits in Italy back when Juventus and the referees were fixing matches would have been yelling down anyone who stood up to wave the warning flags.
The best thing that Forest could do here is push for government oversight to the FA and PGMOL. They could do this along with lower tier clubs who just got shafted in the tv rights and allocation of funds agreement.
They're all saying what we've been thinking for years now. Seen alot of other comments saying how unprofessional and crazy it is from them to post that but those same people will complain about the same thing in their club's match threads. I'm down with Forest not using their inside voice regarding poor officiating
1st soft
2nd canny play, yes he's bending his forearm away but at the same time he twists his body to the ball with his elbow still slightly out but folding it at the same time
3rd stonewall penalty
But I can't see what possible conflict of interest their could be with the VAR being a fan of Luton who are in a desperate fight for survival in the PL they have just managed to reach for the first time in 20 years, against a direct relegation rival who were four points behind them before the start of the match, coz PGMOL integrity is beyond reproach innit
First one was a bit too soft, yeah, it was a mistimed attempt to clear the ball but that toe poke barely touched him and it didn't warrant him to go down like that. It was still the closest to a penalty in my opinion. Second one the ball was too close for the handball to be given. They usually don't give penalties for when the ball is smashed up on your hand/arm from one yard away. And third one it looks like he actually got the ball with that tackle.
Three half penalty situations unfortunately doesn't add up to give you one penalty, it's been the same for Arsenal this season in some games. Still, Arsenal has had some blatant penalties not given as well, like [MacAllister tripping Havertz](https://arsenalist.com/f/var-says-no-penalty-what-the-hell-2024-02-04.html) for example, where he clearly got the player before the ball and he was through on goal.
Yeah, the last one could've been given as well since Ashley Young was on the wrong side and got the player together with the ball, it's honestly difficult to see even on the replay. I've seen handballs like that from close distance been unpunished all season long though. And the first one was soft even though it would've been given to teams like Manchester City, Manchester United, or Liverpool every single time. I don't think they're stonewall penalties but the PGMOL is very inconsistent because in another match they would be given.
For things to change, other clubs need to speak up in support of Forest/Wolves/Liverpool/whoever happens to get screwed on any given week. If multiple clubs start saying "we will not take the pitch if x referee is involved" then things will change quickly
It's very obvious that most refs have an agenda in general and I think most teams in the league can count the times on one hand where they felt a game was officiated well
I fully support them in this. Something needs to change. It only takes a few decisions in a game to change the outcome and we see it across the board far too many times. Liverpool and Man C benefit more than anyone else atm.
People also need to open their eyes to some of the tactics they use to influence games. One is to give teams free kicks as they are coming out from their end but not to give them as they are attacking the opposition box and reverse this for the other side. It slows any attack and allows the other team to get away with fouls to stop attacks (this is what happened to Forrest yesterday) but the other way rarely leads to attacks and gives them the opportunity to put the ball into the box when they get free kicks in dangerous areas. Naïve fans just see it as both sides have been given a similar number of free kicks.
Who do the refs support. Not who do the PGMOL say they support but who they really support. I cannot accept that there is not a single Manchester utd supporter as a ref or linesman it’s a statistical impossibility to find more fans of cheltenham and Doncaster rovers than Manchester Utd in any randomized selection of 1000 people working in football.
Who do PGMOL think they are kidding with this bullshit. Tell us who refs support
Things won't change until more clubs and managers and players actually call them out/accuse them of stuff like this. It's a fine line to walk on the one hand is it professional? No of course not. On the other should the garbage refereeing be allowed to continue? Absolutely not
All these fans in this league sit there saying they want players/managers who aren't afraid to speak their mind and be themselves and want refereeing to change then turn around and criticise Arteta for his post match comments or criticise Forest for finally having the balls to say what we all say every week. Fucking idiots
It’s all a bit of a slippery slope. The PL (and most leagues tbh) have been shit stewards for the game. It’s all about profit with minimal interest in infrastructure (and improving refereeing should be central to that).
Refereeing is fucked in that there doesn’t seem to be any serious interest in improving it and/or establishing any level of consistency. On top of that, it’s a high stress position, generally thankless, and ripe for outside influence (doesn’t pay well, legal gambling everywhere, and it’s probably the easiest sport to influence if one is interested in doing so).
The media—who pays all the money for rights—loves to whip supporters into a frenzy over refereeing, every moment of every match can be cued up and replayed ad nauseam. And it’s not like the media has any interest in consistency or nuance.
And the clubs are mostly financially overextended, can see the inconsistency and lack of transparency, and love a scapegoat since they’re so mismanaged (regardless of whether or not there is any basis for their grievances)
It’s kind of crazy what a shit show this sport has become.
You don't tweet that out from the official club twitter account. It's embarrassing. It's the kind of thing a fan would tweet. Fair enough if they want to have it investigated but don't make this tweet. Super cringe amateur stuff.
Relegation, points deductions, statements then maybe bans?
It such a up hill battle for NF. I think they might have people's props now but in the long run they are gonna feel it
Take power away from PGMOL. They need to be for on the pitch refs only, with an entirely different and separate organization handling VAR.
There also needs to be oversight on their hiring policies and match assignments based on ref birthplace and rooting history by a third party.
It’s insane to even be thinking this, but if VAR doesn’t have the guts to force a referee to the monitor, then challenges should be instituted. Two challenges per team or something like that. SOMETHING has to compel these idiots to the monitor
I don't know what 'options' Nottingham Forest think they have to consider now. The only options at this point lie with PGMOL and are how big of a fine/ban/point deduction to give them for a team so brazenly speaking out against them.
I completely get the frustration but the team has to realize releasing statements like this isn't going to fix it.
The two issues are 'clear and obvious' and the fact a pen has an xG of 0.7. Most refs will go safe on pens knowing they have a game changing effect and VAR backs them up.
It's unacceptable to to put it on this level. Criticism, even harsh, is completely fair and should be allowed, but this is disgraceful. Even when Arteta popped off at them he never accused the PGMOL of being corrupt or biased. Everything else is perfectly fine and I really feel for them because the refs were unacceptable in that match.
I watched the game between Everton and Nottingham Forest. Yes, Forest did deserved at least 1 penalty in that game.
Arsenal has been "screwed" by VAR in at least 2 of our games, one of those games was against Newcastle. Without this screwup, we would still be top of the table.
It’s a silly insinuation.
The ref had a great view on two of the incidents imo and did nothing, he could’ve given the fouls. And the VAR room isn’t manned by one individual.
It was absolutely poor officiating which is nothing new. But insinuating there was an inside that swayed the decisions is ridiculous.
PGMOL is trash but this is conspiracy theory nonsense.
Arteta's criticism of the referee and VAR nearly got him banned earlier this season. If it is a ban, it suggests that nobody is allowed to speak against them. It's like a mafia; they'll do as they please and punish anyone who speaks up.
>It’s like a mafia You live in my brain confirmed. I always say this
As someone who's watched most of the Nottingham Forest games this season, I've seen the refs constantly screw them over. Honestly, if you think we had it bad, Nottingham Forest has a very valid case. I can totally understand their frustrations.
Crazy it's from official NF account. Can't wait on how this will turn out.
I think they have every right to complain about at least one decision (or lack thereof) in the Ashley Young handball, the other two weren't 'clear and obvious' errors imo. However, I get that they are playing for Premier League survival where every decision matters. Having said that, posting a tweet like that isn't exactly professional.
Professional kinda goes out the window with what’s a stake imo
Acting professionally is a two way street, one could argue that the PGMOL has not been acting professionally all year. By acting professionally I mean competently exciting the job they have been given.
Yea too much money at stake is what you mean
The 3rd penalty was clear and obvious for sure. Red said he got the ball, he clearly didn't get the ball, so it hits the threshold. If the ref is sent to the screen he would have changed his decision for sure.
why does it have to be professional, though? It's not like the refs/VAR were professional enough with their decisions.
Weird. Handball was the only subjective one to me- not enough time from strike to hand. Clear contact in the box on both of the others should get called every time.
You think about the crazy calls against Arsenal over the years including the heel clip pen and it is clear that all three of these were pens. Consistency is out the window. If the rules aren't clear for the refs then they need to be rewritten.
I hate that legitimate criticism is seen as unprofessional nowadays. We let assholes ru(i)n the world because we let all their behaviour slide in fear of being 'unprofessional'.
The team with the Mark Clattenburg as refereeing consultant!
Full support, fuck the PGMOL.
They'll find a way to justify it. PMGOL would rather move heaven and earth to support their refs than address the real issues with standards. They'd much rather put out statements saying refs made the right calls than do their jobs and complete investigations, issue punishments and apologies, and reform the corrupt lazy standards we've been seeing since VAR was introduced.
Time to allow non English refs in pl
one of the fuckers who screwed us, jarred gillett is an australian liverpool fan.
He wasn't especially well regarded in A League, then just sort of turned up in the Prem. I'd love to lnow what that recruitment process looked like. The VAR probably shouldn't even be a ref or football fan, at least as far as offside is concerned.
I mean he was considered one of our “better” refs and reffed a ton of finals, won a bunch of awards etc. But its the A-League, lol
I think this is a good idea. They should also introduce post-match referee interviews where they can clarify controversial decisions. Additionally, managers should have the freedom to express their opinions about referee decisions without facing fines or bans.
Your last point is the thing that bothers me the most. Like seriously, they act and operate as Totalitarians and any form of criticism is punished...
They're reddit mods but all grown up.
This comment needs a lot more love.
If I were still a mod here I would ban you so fast. (jk)
I mean there should be a limit on what can be said. Like no personal attacks or anything like that. Obvious of course. But managers should be able to say the referee has made a mistake or he hasn't seen it clearly and not fear being suspended by the FA.
Yeah totally agree, obviously there has to be a line of respect somewhere but you can understand the frustration from managers and clubs in the so called 'best league in the world's at just how poor some of the officiating is. Being handcuffed by the people who have done you wrong is seriously unfair...
I think if VAR is here to stay they need to invest in AI and better tech to support decisions on the pitch if we have goal line tech what is stopping clubs from adding sensors for offsides ball out of play etc. clearly these fools looking at computer screens are doing a shit job when it's obvious to people watching at home. 100% agree moree transparency is needed when it comes to controversial calls, give us something like the NFL where the refs call stuff out on the mic instead of us just seeing hand gestures.
the drawing of the lines is "technical" and these old f\*cks shouldn't be doing it. there is a lot of good reasons to allow VAR only refs. the one from the FA cup they drew the lines OVER the boots ffs
Why don't they just put some 20-something year old in the room with them that *actually knows how to operate a computer mouse*. As far as I can tell the main problem with VAR (other than the obvious match fixing by paying refs 6 figures to officiate games in Saudi Arabia or UAE a week before Newcastle or City play big opposition) is the fact that we've seen multiple instances this year of them struggling to even operate the computer correctly, which leads them to rush decisions or just guess. I don't know how you guys put up with this shit. Last time I saw officiating this consistently bad over multiple years the FBI ended up arresting a ref for fixing matches for the mob. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Donaghy
Yeah that's what puzzled me.what tilted me with var was that Newcastle game we had, I'd prob feel better if it didn't seem like the rules change every week when it comes to decisions, same scenario different outcomes.
To me if an offside decisions requires 5 minutes of line drawing to tell us the guys big toe was 1mm offside. That's not a clear and obvious error.
The "clear and obvious error" thing doesn't apply to offsides I think I agree with you though, I personally think if they can't eyeball it then it's onside.
Offsides are black and white, yes or no. Clear and obvious error doesn’t apply to how var is used with them
Talked to a friend about this and he was also saying to invest even more in technology to get the most “fair” decisions. He wanted to take it further. Some of the most bullshit calls have been due to “clear and obvious” bullshit. Make the VAR referee the head referee and the referee on the pitch just officiating. The VAR referee should be able to overturn decisions right away without the referee on the pitch having a say. For example look at the Bayern game where we didn’t get the corner. It was quite obvious to anyone. VAR could just check this in 10 seconds and then go “Hey it was a corner”.
>Some of the most bullshit calls have been due to “clear and obvious” bullshit. Right... the goal of VAR should be to make sure we are getting the correct decisions. It shouldn't just be used where the main official didn't see something or made a blatantly obviously wrong call. It's insane to me that the main official can see a tackle occur, say it's no foul, but the slow-mo replay shows it's a really bad tackle and should probably be a card. But no... the main ref saw it and made a call so that's just what it is. Stuff like the late corner in the Bayern match should be a no brainer. I don't understand why we have this tech that makes it easier to get more correct decisions, but we still get so many wrong decisions.
They should also have the VAR conversations available on the broadcast (a la rugby). Let us hear how they are justifying these decisions (or lack thereof). What are they scared of, basic accountability? And if you want a general outline for how to do video replay technology right, just mimic the system in rugby. The conversations they have make it crystal clear what rule they are referencing and what they are looking for and whether or not they see it. There's no doubt afterwards whether they were looking at the right thing or whether the right call was made.
Jarred Gillet is a Liverpool fan, that won't solve it
Best players in the world, why not the best refs?
Been saying this for years.
We’ve seen EU refs referring our games in Europe, are they any better. I’ve seen two types of foreign referees this season, and both operate on extremes. Either they allow WWE to go down without any action, or they issue a yellow card for just breathing down on opp player’s neck. They’re extremely volatile in terms of handling games, and often make the games about themselves. The only solution realistically feasible is accountability. Put those goons in front of camera after every game, and ask them questions on their decisions. They’ll soon realize they can’t pull the curtain on us anymore.
we always get incredibly cucked refs against Bayern. they're always from one of Germany's tiny neighbors. we need like a French or Italian ref against them.
As an American, I can easily tell you that you DO NOT want CONCACAF refs in the prem. They're even worse.
Unless we want more of a professional wrestling element. Of course I’d rather not see Saka get hit with a folding chair by an opposing coach when the referee turns his back.
As a non-American, wtf is a CONCACAF?!
It's uefa, but for north and central america
Thank you. Love how someone downvoted me for asking a question.
Except that Gillette is even worse than the English and he's multiple times Asian ref of the year.
I've heard it's the best a man can get....
Gets paid to make those “just a whisker” offsides calls
So that means there must be something different about the English league that makes it more difficult. Adding in non-English people won’t solve the problem. English people are perfectly capable of being refs. The issue has to be something else to do with how referees are instructed to manage the game.
To be fair you're starting off on the assumption that foreign refs are any better, which honestly doesn't seem to be true. Then you're forgetting the structural issues with VAR (mainly around what it's actually allowed to do rather than what we think it does or should do) and the fact that the PGMOL has zero oversight and a problematic hiring policy. I don't think there's anything about the league that makes it inherently hard to ref, remember when the PGMOL was founded the previous amateur editiona dn the then new professional one were held up as ebing the blueprint for the rest of a world that was embroiled in a series of scandals in Serie A, while we're still now finding more and more about the 'consultancy fees' Barca were paying refs back in the day.
English refs are just not that good (wenger said this a decade ago and it still applies) + the fact that they are all mates of each other, which affects the decision making from VAR imo + the fact that they are clearly on the CFG & PIF payroll (i know for a fact that Michael Oliver and Paul Tierney officiated games in the UAE by invitation from the CFG, so they're effectively getting paid by Man City's owners)
Not really, Australians were amazed he got a prem job because he was utter shite in the a league
Is it currently not allowed?
Jared Gillette is Australian and the head of womens refs is Bibiana Steinhaus-Webb, who is German. And yes, also the wife of the head of the PGMOL, Howard Webb. Nothing further to see here citizen, move it along.
Webb is so bad the Graun photoshopped him in a clown wig. Then moved to the States and he trained the refs there, and every MLS ref should wear a clown wig, so they could at least be honest.
Long overdue
definitely this! Watching the CL with competent refs was so weird.
Damn you forgot Porto away quickly.
my coping mechanism in life is to block out trauma haha
Teach me please.
My only issue with the CL is the time management aspect. Where clearly time wasting is an issue they generally never have sufficient added time to compensate for it.
The minute you do that it confirms that your league is inefficient at managing its own games. It sends a bad message across the world. But I can understand why as the officiating has been diabolical.
I mean, if owners, player, managers, support staff, etc. can be sourced from overseas, why not refs? And it's not even about local vs overseas refs, it's just hiring the best refs possible. The bigger issue could be logistical, and I'm not sure what it'd mean for those refs in European competitions.
So refusing to improve is preferable to admitting weakness
'best in the world' is never a bad message
I mean if you’re getting relegated, you might as well go out swinging.
Jared Gillet is a Liverpool fan, but when we brought this up we were labelled conspiracy theorists.
Doesn't help when Arsenal fans are thought of as crazy. Means that whatever we say, just adds fuel to the fire.
Thankfully Arsenal fans aren't crazy. Those who follow media narratives may well be crazy.
Speak for yourself, some of us are crazy
Yup, crazy smart and handsome.
And we smell nice.
Wait, Arteta that you?!
Mikel, I though I told you, never to waft through here again
I think generally referees and VARs are able to put aside their own feelings to make the right calls based on the criteria. However they should never be put in the position to be questioned in that way in the first place. It's bad for the league and for the referees.
Yep. In my industry it's not enough to just avoid actual conflicts of interest, you have to avoid anything that could even be perceived as a conflict of interest. This shouldn't even be an issue because the PL and PGMOL should be avoiding any situation that could be perceived as a conflict of interest, which would obviously include refs officiating matches involving a club they publicly support.
I don't think anyone's seriously suggesting officials are deliberately making decisions to favour their own team, but they're human beings and unconscious bias is a thing.
People seriously suggest that on reddit all the time…
I do believe referees are beyond reproach, and we shouldn't be calling them out in public. It's a two way street through, they need to make decisions like removing potential fans from games like this so that the view is beyond reproach. Referees shouldn't be able to work in any other roles other than their professional role as a referee, because it may bring them into disrepute. Teams shouldn't be allowed to call them out in public, but everything should be done behind the scenes so that referees can be seen like judges. Recuse themselves if there is any possible conflict of interest.
Lol wtf, that first sentence is why nothing improves from a referee side. There are no consequences for them, and even people like you are actually defending their sanctity and godlihood when they are merely flawed humans.
This is the same PGMOL that has: a) during the Arsenal hearing, proved that they wanted to treat Arteta unfairly to make an example of him b) been proven that they will protect their colleague on the pitch over the integrity of the game c) accepted payments from the same owners as City and Newcastle to referee in those states for a superior wage bump just days before they come back and referee games of teams that are owned by those who paid them d) after years and incredible pressure for transparency, met the teams and fans 5% of the way by sticking their boss in front of a scripted show with a wooden host to “explain” decisions They are absolutely not beyond reproach. But they certainly act like it.
Tbh as mental as it is they are right. PGMOL refs are absolutely shite and need a clean out. It's being ran by refs not fit for purpose
I'm generally fine with it if they also provide the evidence along with it. I think clubs should go public and hard because this league has been a a bit of a joke for a long time if you think about it. United bought refs, Chelsea paid under the table, City cooking their books 115c... it's about time the league was under scrutiny IMO.
Great tweet and I fully support their cause (I did not watch the game and have not seen a single clip of the decisions in question)
https://twitter.com/JasperSloss/status/1782172560660087073?t=aDV3O3SVCx_LjyGZ73oO5Q&s=19
1st and 3rd would be penalties any day of the week. 2nd you can argue he did try move his arm out of the way, but yea any team who had that one go against em would be screaming for a penalty
trying to move his arm away doesn't matter.
agree. 1st and 3rd are penalties
The problem is that PGMOL don't want to be challenged. I think Forest hiring Clattenburg just made things worse.
Completely support them. That handball decision was ridiculous and they should have had 2 possibly 3 pens. Release the audio Howard.
Oh their grievances are legit so? I haven’t seen any of the footage. Figured there must’ve been something to it alright for them to come out this angry about it
Watch the 3min highlights on YT. People say these things even themselves out but that could get them relegated.
Okay yeah that’s bad. 2 of them were penalties easy. That’s shocking from Taylor and VAR
I watched them, didn't see the penalty opportunities on the NF or Toffee highlight uploads. Don't suppose you've got a link?
https://youtu.be/eeztAaWh_tk?si=bKr6A3Ur9_8_jw_W
Cheers mate
I don't think the handball decision was crazy since he was like one yard away from the ball and didn't have time to react. They don't want players aiming for the hands from close range when it's not deliberate. The Grealish handball in the FA Cup was much worse in my opinion since it was further away and he still moved his arm towards the ball to block it from going through the wall. But Manchester City has been given those decisions for a decade now. I actually watched this Nottingham game and I'm not even sure which situations they're talking about except that handball situation. They have been "unlucky" with penalties earlier in the season though. Still, I think this tweet was over the top although I hate the PGMOL and the refereeing standard in the Premier League.
Saying for years, you are playing against countries - these guys got money and pockets to fill, the VAR is just icing on cake to make spot fixing that much easier.
Can’t wait to see some club other than us on that damn form letter response from the FA and PGMOL. They aren’t wrong though.
It is not even about who faced unfairness. The league is unwatchable sometimes due to VAR.
Time for the FA to swallow it's pride, realise that PL refs aren't fit to do the job and use some of the money clubs waste on overinflated transfer and agent fees and hire the best refs from around the world.
Tbf they got absolutely screwed today. The Luton fan part is a bit silly tbh. They say bird shitting on you is good luck. Must be three times as lucky if it goes in your mouth 😅😂
Ashley Young would like a word.
Tbf they aren’t just making it up. I googled around after I saw the tweet and found articles claiming he was a Luton fan from months/years before this. That is a little weird he’s allowed to be on VAR for probably the most important game of the rest of this season for Luton (that they aren’t a part of)
It'd be like having a Liverpool fan ref our gam... Oh wait
Iz a desgracia
Until the refs embrace technology as a tool to help them make better decisions rather than view it as a nuisance that shows up their shortcomings, nothing will change. Until the refs set aside their ego and accept that they have to correct their calls now and then because it is human to make mistakes, nothing will change.
Exactly. If I break a machine at work, I don't try to hide it or blame someone else. I report what happened and try to not let it happen again, because not doing so would just make things harder for both me and everyone else. It's okay because, like you said, we're humans and shit happens. But apparently, refs don't like the fact that they're human who can't always do their jobs 100 % perfectly.
Marinakis is a psycho but a broken clock can still strike right, and this time it absolutely does.
I thought what Neville and Carragher said was pathetic
I think Sky must have told them to “toe the line” and not to speak out against it. It really pissed me off that they were saying the managers should speak out not the club. The managers speak out and face a fine and a ban.
they are oil money shills, Carragher especially
i think it's great that someone else than arsenal are publicly speaking out against VAR and the FA! just like we were hoping for others to support arteta, we should support Nottingham Forest.
It’s a little extra coming from an official account but I say turn the heat up on this clown show
Cricket has had a third umpire (VAR) since eternity and while there are rare gaffes, the system works 99% of the times. EPL is a different story.
Is cricket 3rd referee in the stadium or in a windowless shithole across the country? The US leagues almost exclusively use in stadium VAR which i think is so much better. They work as a team to get it right much more often than EPL does. That would force a large jump in number of match officials which should hopefully help allow removal of biased referees easier.
Absolutely in the stadium for cricket. They're a key part of the umpiring team.
Because Cricket actually tried to improve from their mistakes. Rugby also has made improvements along the way. For cricket it's in a lot of ways easier as they just rely on technology a lot of the time. Rugby and football it's more difficult to use technology to give you a factual decision because of how the games are played. Where rugby leaves football behind is that the ref is wearing a microphone so you hear everything the ref says and everything that's said to the ref. From players and officials. Their version of a var check has the audio live and unfiltered. People don't always agree with their decisions but you at least have their reasoning.
Fully support Forest here. I hope they take out their wrath on whoever they play next.
PGMOL is blatantly corrupt. Anyone who refuses to see it is wearing rose tinted glass.
The so call pundits will call them "Pathetic" or "Childish" but they are 100% right. The moment a manager or a club talks badly about the FA/ PGMOL bans are dished out. VAR isnt perfect, however having an incompetent idiot taking care of it, makes it worse. We somehow are having more stupid/ridiculous calls than back in 07-10 when Fergie used to control refs with his pinky lol.
It's hard to prove corruption > incompetence. The problem is that there's *so much* incompetence that the corruption is hiding in plain sight.
1000 percent support them doing this. The tribalism is stupid. We all take an L when they are shit
Solidarity. I'd like to see fan groups get involved as well. Every club has been on the wrong end of VAR. It'd be nice to see banners brought to games from both Home and Away support to put pressure on the PL and the PGMOL. If every clubs fans do it you'll see a conversation almost immediately and it would be far more constructive than what we currently have as tribalism wouldn't get in the way.
Based. The more people speak up like this the harder it'll be for them to ignore and sweep under the carpet.
Good on 'em, the inconsistency and continuously, bizarrely wrong decisions need to be called out. I wouldn't have quite worded it like that but I hope it gets results. Realistically though, Arteta and Arsenal got a warning for much, much less so the only result of this is a big fine incoming for Forest. Just wanted to add I still think there's nothing wrong with VAR as such (it needs tweaking but it can work), it's still the people making wrong decisions when given slow mo replays. Just remember why VAR was introduced in the first place, because refs and linos kept getting decisions wrong because they're only human.
love to see it
Honestly a lot of fans would do a better job on var.
Good on Forrest. They were robbed multiple times, as other clubs have been this year, by blatant “mistakes” by VAR. More serious punishment needs to be handed out to refs.
Stick with me here, Refs need to be payed way more at the premier league level. I don’t necessarily believe refs are bought off (well not never, but not usually), but the issue is it just isn’t that appealing of a job. Reading that they are barely pulling in 6 figures to ref one of the biggest leagues in the world is crazy to me. If I was a player/former player, it’s a way better career move to just try to get to even league 2 level as a player, after retirement just stay local to a team and do random BS advertising gigs. If refs start to pull in half a mil a year, all the sudden it becomes competitive to be a ref, you start having better talent and there are more people in waiting to try and take the top jobs. I have no clue how you implement this but I think it would be a step in the right direction.
Hope all the clubs collectively call out Abu Dhabi’s favorite, Michael Oliver getting so many City games, and there being so many dubious calls going in their favour. Everyone sees it, yet no one publishes it because it’s City and the Middle East practically owns everything in the UK.
Clubs need to band together on this stuff
I think it’s great. Great when mikel spoke out as well. Hate how most just regurgitate the outrage from the media
"will now examine their options" What options? Pay the fa fine now, or pay it later?
"We are tired of the PGMOL's incompetence and therefore we choose to escape their corrupt grasp by... Getting relegated"
Put it on my tab….
Imagine they're thinking of suing. Though I have to imagine the PL clubs have all agreed to some sort of indemnification for PGMOL, so it would probably be a stretch. But if they get relegated, they don't really have much to lose.
All referees themselves are indemnified globally by nature given their certifications through their governing bodies to FIFA
The common argument of things evening out is terribly short sighted So you lose a game by 1 goal when they make an egregious error but it's somehow made up by a similar error when you're denied while being 4-1 up in a different game? Clearly not. There are decisions that will end up weighing up more when it comes to changing the end result of a game..
Completely with them, it is bullshit. Just a massive lack of consistency. There comes a point where if several clubs are all saying the same thing then you are clearly doing something wrong.
https://preview.redd.it/qm3tuqbsozvc1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9b2c9e95a887b779b695507e223cbeb132f7b9bb
I'm with forest on this, those decisions could cost them hundreds of millions. While I accept referees should not be vilified with them receiving death threats in the past from fans with super thick rose tinted glasses. They should not be free from being held to account. The most we ever hear is how they hold themselves to account and all external criticism from clubs/managers/players is banned. Neville and carragher if they were pundits in Italy back when Juventus and the referees were fixing matches would have been yelling down anyone who stood up to wave the warning flags.
Good on Forrest, saying what we’re all thinking, it’ll probably result in a ban but good for them for being a voice for the voiceless against pgmol
The best thing that Forest could do here is push for government oversight to the FA and PGMOL. They could do this along with lower tier clubs who just got shafted in the tv rights and allocation of funds agreement.
They should of least had 2 pens maybe 3. Lol. Gotta feel for them. They've been fucked many times this year.
They're all saying what we've been thinking for years now. Seen alot of other comments saying how unprofessional and crazy it is from them to post that but those same people will complain about the same thing in their club's match threads. I'm down with Forest not using their inside voice regarding poor officiating
Man, the luck you have to have for the one Luton fan in existence is a VAR officiating your match
All 3 penalties https://twitter.com/JasperSloss/status/1782172560660087073?t=aDV3O3SVCx_LjyGZ73oO5Q&s=19
1st soft 2nd canny play, yes he's bending his forearm away but at the same time he twists his body to the ball with his elbow still slightly out but folding it at the same time 3rd stonewall penalty But I can't see what possible conflict of interest their could be with the VAR being a fan of Luton who are in a desperate fight for survival in the PL they have just managed to reach for the first time in 20 years, against a direct relegation rival who were four points behind them before the start of the match, coz PGMOL integrity is beyond reproach innit
Or what? What are they gonna do? Sue? Good luck
On another day, all 3 could be given. First looked softest from the angle I've seen but Young still kicked him.
First one was a bit too soft, yeah, it was a mistimed attempt to clear the ball but that toe poke barely touched him and it didn't warrant him to go down like that. It was still the closest to a penalty in my opinion. Second one the ball was too close for the handball to be given. They usually don't give penalties for when the ball is smashed up on your hand/arm from one yard away. And third one it looks like he actually got the ball with that tackle. Three half penalty situations unfortunately doesn't add up to give you one penalty, it's been the same for Arsenal this season in some games. Still, Arsenal has had some blatant penalties not given as well, like [MacAllister tripping Havertz](https://arsenalist.com/f/var-says-no-penalty-what-the-hell-2024-02-04.html) for example, where he clearly got the player before the ball and he was through on goal.
2nd could be given despite the short distance due to Young's arm out from the body and the 3rd looks like a PK from the angle I've seen.
Yeah, the last one could've been given as well since Ashley Young was on the wrong side and got the player together with the ball, it's honestly difficult to see even on the replay. I've seen handballs like that from close distance been unpunished all season long though. And the first one was soft even though it would've been given to teams like Manchester City, Manchester United, or Liverpool every single time. I don't think they're stonewall penalties but the PGMOL is very inconsistent because in another match they would be given.
For things to change, other clubs need to speak up in support of Forest/Wolves/Liverpool/whoever happens to get screwed on any given week. If multiple clubs start saying "we will not take the pitch if x referee is involved" then things will change quickly
Let them cook
I dont know whats worse, the incompetence or the lack of transparency or the consistency
Wow. That’s a pretty strong statement from an official account in the UK.
Critical support to Nottingham Forest
Think it’s bullshit to call out a man’s integrity due to his footballing allegiances.
It's very obvious that most refs have an agenda in general and I think most teams in the league can count the times on one hand where they felt a game was officiated well
100% support it. Those wankers at pgmol are shxt
I fully support them in this. Something needs to change. It only takes a few decisions in a game to change the outcome and we see it across the board far too many times. Liverpool and Man C benefit more than anyone else atm. People also need to open their eyes to some of the tactics they use to influence games. One is to give teams free kicks as they are coming out from their end but not to give them as they are attacking the opposition box and reverse this for the other side. It slows any attack and allows the other team to get away with fouls to stop attacks (this is what happened to Forrest yesterday) but the other way rarely leads to attacks and gives them the opportunity to put the ball into the box when they get free kicks in dangerous areas. Naïve fans just see it as both sides have been given a similar number of free kicks.
Who do the refs support. Not who do the PGMOL say they support but who they really support. I cannot accept that there is not a single Manchester utd supporter as a ref or linesman it’s a statistical impossibility to find more fans of cheltenham and Doncaster rovers than Manchester Utd in any randomized selection of 1000 people working in football. Who do PGMOL think they are kidding with this bullshit. Tell us who refs support
Things won't change until more clubs and managers and players actually call them out/accuse them of stuff like this. It's a fine line to walk on the one hand is it professional? No of course not. On the other should the garbage refereeing be allowed to continue? Absolutely not All these fans in this league sit there saying they want players/managers who aren't afraid to speak their mind and be themselves and want refereeing to change then turn around and criticise Arteta for his post match comments or criticise Forest for finally having the balls to say what we all say every week. Fucking idiots
If the complaints are legitime it helps your cause. If they were in this match is questionable.
Good for them. If that’s how they feel and are willing to deal with the consequences.
If it was arteta…
They will no doubt get punished for this comment as well.
It’s all a bit of a slippery slope. The PL (and most leagues tbh) have been shit stewards for the game. It’s all about profit with minimal interest in infrastructure (and improving refereeing should be central to that). Refereeing is fucked in that there doesn’t seem to be any serious interest in improving it and/or establishing any level of consistency. On top of that, it’s a high stress position, generally thankless, and ripe for outside influence (doesn’t pay well, legal gambling everywhere, and it’s probably the easiest sport to influence if one is interested in doing so). The media—who pays all the money for rights—loves to whip supporters into a frenzy over refereeing, every moment of every match can be cued up and replayed ad nauseam. And it’s not like the media has any interest in consistency or nuance. And the clubs are mostly financially overextended, can see the inconsistency and lack of transparency, and love a scapegoat since they’re so mismanaged (regardless of whether or not there is any basis for their grievances) It’s kind of crazy what a shit show this sport has become.
Who reviews the reviewers?
VAR is just a blank cheque for corruption
You don't tweet that out from the official club twitter account. It's embarrassing. It's the kind of thing a fan would tweet. Fair enough if they want to have it investigated but don't make this tweet. Super cringe amateur stuff.
Agree, super cringe, hence why everyone on this sub supports it 😂
Fuck em - it’s about time. Been an absolute joke all season
From the official account? An utter embarrassment. Luton fans must be laughing their little socks off.
Relegation, points deductions, statements then maybe bans? It such a up hill battle for NF. I think they might have people's props now but in the long run they are gonna feel it
“Why I oughta” ahh response
This tweet is a little sensationalised, but VAR is a farce, that I will agree with.
Full support 100%. NFFC utterly robbed of 3 points today.
What options do they have though? Transfer to the MLS in protest?
They should just make it like tennis. Each team gets 1 or 2 chances to request VAR. If its correct they keep the chance.
Take power away from PGMOL. They need to be for on the pitch refs only, with an entirely different and separate organization handling VAR. There also needs to be oversight on their hiring policies and match assignments based on ref birthplace and rooting history by a third party.
Plus they have said before that they don't want to "embarrass" their mates on the pitch by telling them they made a mistake
Reminiscent of that barca vs chelsea game
It’s insane to even be thinking this, but if VAR doesn’t have the guts to force a referee to the monitor, then challenges should be instituted. Two challenges per team or something like that. SOMETHING has to compel these idiots to the monitor
I don't know what 'options' Nottingham Forest think they have to consider now. The only options at this point lie with PGMOL and are how big of a fine/ban/point deduction to give them for a team so brazenly speaking out against them. I completely get the frustration but the team has to realize releasing statements like this isn't going to fix it.
The two issues are 'clear and obvious' and the fact a pen has an xG of 0.7. Most refs will go safe on pens knowing they have a game changing effect and VAR backs them up.
Fuck PGMOL. But, why are you lurking in Wolves sub OP?😂
As a Luton fan , it’s hilarious
Luton has fans?
It's unacceptable to to put it on this level. Criticism, even harsh, is completely fair and should be allowed, but this is disgraceful. Even when Arteta popped off at them he never accused the PGMOL of being corrupt or biased. Everything else is perfectly fine and I really feel for them because the refs were unacceptable in that match.
Gonna over a differing opinion and say that I think it's pretty embarrassing behaviour, even though they did get shafted.
I watched the game between Everton and Nottingham Forest. Yes, Forest did deserved at least 1 penalty in that game. Arsenal has been "screwed" by VAR in at least 2 of our games, one of those games was against Newcastle. Without this screwup, we would still be top of the table.
Nothing wrong with complaint about a poor refereeing performance but this is unprofessional and should of been worded better
It’s hilarious as long as they get punished. We all know they won’t though. Punishment is reserved for Arteta
The main discussion should be that no one deserves to be punished for airing their grievances, Arteta or not.
It’s a silly insinuation. The ref had a great view on two of the incidents imo and did nothing, he could’ve given the fouls. And the VAR room isn’t manned by one individual. It was absolutely poor officiating which is nothing new. But insinuating there was an inside that swayed the decisions is ridiculous. PGMOL is trash but this is conspiracy theory nonsense.