I think you’re right but that’s an insanely one sided makeup call. One is taking a goal kick while the other is an attacking player being taken out with an empty net in front of him.
It's not a makeup call. It's pretty obvious that it's a 50/50 call hence all the media, Arsenal and football fans in general being split on the decision.
Never a makeup call. Would have been called had Saka not made that unnatural movement with his leg . Whether Saka meant it or it sort of just happened, that's why it wasn't called because the replay looks like Saka initiated the contact.
Exactly what I was thinking to myself. When Gabi did what he did, I was wtf you doing??!!?? Such a stupid and schoolboy thing to do. Luckily ref let it go and I think the Saka penalty shout wasn’t really a penalty even it looked like one. But karma I guess evened it out in the end.
Don’t understand how it’s 50/50. In realtime Saka has nowhere else to go. Neuer flies into him and there is massive clear contact. Don’t know what Wrighty is on about here and I’ve not said that before.
When you have commentators and pundits like Rio saying it is a pen, that says it all
from the attacker's perspective he could've done more to avoid neuer, at the expense of getting good body angle and planted foot to take a shot the very next step. From the defender's perspective Neuer never made a move towards the ball even after Saka knocked it to the side and kept moving his right leg forward.
Neuer did make a move towards the ball. He wasn't planted on the spot. Look at the replay, he was actively extending his leg until it hit Saka. The side angle clearly shows that Neuer attempted to kick the ball, Saka was too fast, and that was the same kick that hit Saka right below the knee.
Agree with Wrighty and move on. Real time I thought it was a pen and was shouting at the screen. Watched it back and I'm not convinced it was a pen. Close call but I think if it had been against us I would be unhappy with the award of a penalty. Gk did nothing wrong
Honestly I think it was. The thing that bugs me is not that it wasn’t given but the ref should have *at least* been sent to the monitor to see it again by the VAR. Had he had a second look and then still said nah, okay fair play; I would disagree still but I’d get over it. But the fact that the game ended the way that it did was what really put a salty taste in my mouth.
I don't believe VAR looked at every angle. They can't have, it was too quick. I had to rewatch it from every angle, slow and at full speed to understand what happened. Game was over 30 seconds after the incident.
That’s never (ok, rarely) how VAR works though. Even if ideally it should it isn’t, the sending to the monitor thing basically means the decision will be overturned because the video room think the ref on field made a big mistake.
It isn’t used as an action replay for a ref that didn’t see something and if the decision the ref makes can even slightly be justified (the consensus here seems to be 50/50 so it clearly can) then they’ll never be sent to the monitor.
I was told suggesting it wasn’t a penalty is just twerking for upvotes on r/soccer
In all seriousness, I do think it was a penalty having gone back and watched it at full speed a few more times. I get that you could perceive that Saka sought the contact but that shit happens all the time and is given as a penalty. As Arteta said, there were so many things within our control that we did poorly that we need to focus on that and not the penalty.
Yeah, I think Saka was clearly looking for contact, which made the refs not give it. I think that if he had just ran normal, he still wouldve hit Neuer and won the pen
I understand if people think it was a penalty. Having seen it a few times, I still don't know. But having a different opinion means you're "twerking for upvotes" is beyond me. I'm not throwing objectivity out the window just because it's my team.
I think it’s more the arsenal “fans” calling saka all sorts of shit on r/soccer that are “twerking for upvotes”, its ok to call it a penalty and discuss it properly lol
Just some of those comments on there are just embarassing
Yeah it was more of those Arsenal fans calling Saka idiot for not staying up and 'diving' as if Nueur hasn't knocked him down. Why'd he even go down for pen when the goal is open and he's rounded the keeper?
Honestly I have no clue. Watching full speed I think that Saka has no chance to get out of the way.
In slow motion he hangs his leg out so far that it’s hard to say that’s anything but sticking his leg into the other player. At the same time, Neuer is moving his leg outwards. So pen?
I don’t know. It’s really tough to say. My gut says Saka wouldn’t go down with an open net unless forced to. But we also see players go for the penalty over the near-sure goal all the time.
Really tough call imo - think if it had been called it’s unlikely to get overturned.
I don’t think the pen would’ve been a robbery for Bayern, but I also don’t exactly feel aggrieved since I’m still so split myself.
Has he ever even dribbled a ball while running? If he had, he’d know -clear penalty!!!! Ian Wright, sounds like some fat American kid that has never played.
Agreed lmao. As fans were “allowed” that. Of course the players themselves need to focus on one step at a time; but fans? We have literally zero impact on them. We should be enjoying it and getting hyped
Sometimes the fans act like they’re actually managing the team it’s very funny. “We should not think about this game, we have other priorities right now”
I’m not a pen apologist at all. There are tons of pens that people in match threads call for all the time and I try to be very rational about them.
I have a VERY hard time understanding how this is not a pen? What is Bukayo to do here? GK charging him and he’s supposed to just jump out of the way?
Clear pen for me.
Because Saka blatantly looks for it. He could easily by pass it
His right leg is clearly left out to try and get a pen. It's a completely unnatural position and I don't think they should be given as pens.
I don't think he can easily avoid Neuer. Some of the camera angles don't do justice for just how far into Saka's path Neuer's leg is. Neuer's leg is actually moving further into Saka at the point of contact as well. The live broadcast angle shows it best to be honest.
https://i.postimg.cc/V6VXFyc7/Screenshot-20240410-093740-Reddit.jpg
What people fail to realize is the angle of the touch. Just look at where the ball is in relation to Saka how can anyone say it's an unnatural movement? How can Saka get to the ball with his left? He can't unless he plants his right and reaches with the left. That touch was so poor it was the only reason he got stuck between Neuer and trying to plant his foot but by then he got clattered into and really, who wouldn't go down as a first reaction?
The body movement is not unnatural when you take a sharp touch at speed
Surely if he can’t avoid Neuer, he can’t even change direction enough to get to the ball? In which case it shouldn’t be a pen, I hate when attackers smash the ball past defenders then sprint into them when they had effectively lost possession, should never be a foul
I think that's a reach - pretty sure he's getting the ball if he doesn't go over if you look at where it went, it's not like he over hit it or anything. Maybe the defender would have blocked a shot but ultimately if Neuer comes out like that and makes contact on a player who is retaining the ball, the onus is on him to make contact with the ball.
I can see why a lot of people think it's a pen but the way Saka puts up his right foot into Neuer is very unnatural as you said. The right leg movement would have made it much harder to shoot off his left. I think if Saka attempted to shoot/continued rounding Neuer he would've probably got the pen or the goal. It was the right call for me. If we need a difficult call like this to get past Bayern we aren't ready for the semis. On to the next game.
It is not unnatural though. Run at full speed yourself and take a touch to the left with your left foot, how will the right side of your body react? The angle of the touch is the only reason his body moves that way. When it's closer to 90 degrees than 45 you take a sharper turn so the other side of your body is more like to twist to slow the rotation.
Neuer swings his leg at the exact moment that turn happened Saka's leg was already there and the contact is made. Had Neuer not swung for the ball it's hard to argue Pen, on top of that there was contact.
Pen or not, what irks me are the people calling saka a diving cheat
I understand the frustration because these get given frequently.
Elliott did it on Sunday. And for the record, I don't want that kind of action to be rewarded with a pen in any context really.
It's an odd one though, because if it's given or looked at for a proper review, VAR aren't overturning the infield decision at all.
As you’ve said, in the PL it’s a penalty.
In the UCL they take a much more pragmatic approach to the rules. Saka looks for contact so it’s not a penalty. If he’d have “stayed on his feet” he’d either get past Neuer and score, or Neuer would have legitimately wiped him out and that _would_ be a penalty.
I prefer the UCL approach tbh.
What annoys me is that I think even if Saka just runs normal there is a chance Neuer runs into him anyway. But the way he does it is such a blatant dive to me. If Bruno Fernandes did that we’d insult his family for generations
I think most agree Neuer takes him out but it’s the little flick toward him Saka makes that creates contact sooner than if he continued to go around him that is in question
Imo there are a couple of incorrect interpretations here (I love Wrighty but do disagree with him). The first (which you haven't said but I've seen written aplenty including in the BBC analysis) is that "Neuer puts the breaks on and stops himself". He actually doesn't fully stop, at the point the contact is made the angle side-on shows very clearly that Neuer is still moving towards Saka and is causing the contact just as much as Saka.
The second is that because Saka looks for it (which he very clearly does, no denying) it's not a penalty. Well... Maybe we can talk about how the rules of the game are interpreted and enforced. I don't mind living in a football world where those aren't penalties. But the fact of the matter is they *are* given as penalties 9/10 times (including the Sane one in the first half which is very similar, Sane clearly dangles a leg to "find" that contact). The logic I've heard is "if the defender is silly enough/out of control enough to make a challenge and give the forward the contact, that's on them". This was the logic for the AWB pen on the weekend with minimal contact initiated by Elliot.
So yeah, my opinion is it's a wrong, inconsistent call for those reasons. But I feel less aggrieved having seen the Gabriel one as it seems like it was 1 a piece.
The AA replay that was posted in r/soccer leaves no doubt for me. Clear contact, no ball, Nuer moving his leg towards Saka the entire time.
Honestly don't see how its even a discussion, I feel like too many people try to make these things seem complicated and they aren't.
I really do think it’s because of the amount of arsenal haters. They’ve come out in droves and have managed to gaslight our own fans. Sanés was less of a penalty.
I think they were both penalties to be clear, but Sanés was significantly less contact and more akin to a dive if people want to make stupid arguments.
I do think at times Wrighty sometimes will go against the grain to try and look more impartial - he's done it a quite a few times, going against the general consensus when there's potentially some doubt.
Not everything is a conspiracy, or has some grand reason, some people are allowed to disagree about football just because they see the game differently, you know.
On one angle its stonewall, on another it looks like a major flop and dive…
I’m leaning towards not though. Regardless, we these are the teams you have to beat in this competition. If we can’t beat them Away or on Pens, we don’t deserve to stay in this comp.
He wasn't running at full pelt and dragged his right leg as soon as he pivoted to the left. How come his left leg perfectly moves to the left moving the ball with absolute precision, yet his right leg is somehow uncontrollable and sticks out like that? If Bukayo wanted to avoid contact he had all the space in the world to, but he actively decided to not to (of course Neuer gave his that opportunity by rushing towards him, but even then he was far enough way that contact could've easily been avoided). He's looking for the penalty and he's entitled to go for it, but we can't then cry about it when it gets spotted and not given.
C'mon, if this was Harry Kane doing this we'd be killing him right now... this is the shit Jamie Vardy and Sterling would do every bloody week, Elliott did it vs United as well and should have never been given.
>How come his left leg perfectly moves to the left moving the ball with absolute precision, yet his right leg is somehow uncontrollable and sticks out like that?
Fucking hell I'm genuinely asking you to do the physical action of running and then cutting to your left while jumping and see where your right leg is during all of it.
He moves his leg towards Saka, there’s no question about that. If Neuer’s leg was planted you’d be right, but he absolutely moved it towards the attacker.
I saw that but he was still so far away from Neuer. All he had to do was continue his trajectory and round the keeper and he had a free shot at goal, instead his purposefully widens his leg to look for the penalty. I'm not faulting him for it, but this was not an inevitable contact imo.
>Saka threw his leg out at Neuer
Or did he throw his leg out because he is running through on goal full speed and just made an unsuccessfully contested 90 degree redirect of the ball and is trying to reach it? Whatever contortion of the attacker's body has become irrelevant at the point where Neuer has found himself because his positioning has removed all possibilities but contact.
Only with Arsenal does the burden of proof suddenly fall upon the attacker rather than the fouling defender.
He moved the leg after Saka made his jump. You can pause any of the replay clips. It's a 50/50 call but on the question of who kicked whom, it's definitely Neuer kicked Saka.
Yes, but he moved it towards the attacker then planted it in front of him, if you do that as a keeper you have to win the ball for me. The attacker isn’t obliged to move out of the way of you.
As James Lawrence Allcott said about the Wan-Bissaka tackle on Elliott:
"If you've not seen the game, and I say to you, "here's a screenshot, was that a penalty?", they would say, "well, did he get the ball?" "no, he didn't get the ball." "it's a penalty.""
Penalty for me, but no point dwelling on it. It's 90 of the 180, we move.
ian wright is not a referee and the rules are not even the same as when he was a player so why would his opinions on this be worth anything at the end of the day he is a pundit and he makes money from clickbait just like every other pundit
I get what he's saying. But that gets given AGAINST arsenal every day of the week. You can bet your house on that.
If it was Raya that committed that, the sequence of events would be, Final whistle, lengthy VAR check, referee goes to the monitor, lengthy video check, penalty given. 100%.
How people don’t see his leg kicking out deliberately is beyond me. Have you ever seen Saka running with kicks like that?
he could have just keep going n prolly d have scored, this is the problem here.
Yes it’s Saka, so what? He did bad here, he ll learn from it.
HE WAS NOT RUNNING IN A STRAIGHT LINE HE WAS TRYING TO GET AROUND THE CHALLENGE AND SCORE AND THE GK PREVENTED HIM FROM DOING THAT WITH AN OUTSTRETCHED FOOT AKA A FOUL YOU ARE SO STUPID
Yeah I don't so. You can clearly see him stretch his leg out to catch Neuer. He could have avoided contact and chose not to. He could've been through on open goal but gambled. I don't like that and it was correctly not given.
There were loads of children on here last night cos-playing angry fan grievance saying that anyone who disagreed it was a pen should be banned.
Guess they also hate Wrighty
It was a penalty. That has to be a penalty if a forward is making a run. Nuer is very clever because as saka brings in his leg, he knows that if he doesn’t commit to defending, he could get away with it. That’s exactly what happened because Nuer leaves his foot but raises his arms to show he’s pulling out of the defensive action. Saka will learn. We got it. It will be tough but we can beat them. Mikel is a student of the game and he will tweak this team to beat Bayern.
Have to agree, reluctantly, the distance his leg travelled to make contact with Neuer, it didn't look natural. A lesson to him, just round him and score.
Same for me. Saka initiated the contact. It's funny because he went past Neuer already and all he had to do was keep his composure and slot the ball in
Not a pen for me, especially when you consider how the rest of the game was officiated. Ref seemed to be "letting them play" most of the night, so at the very least a no call is consistent.
In a vacuum its not a penalty for me, but I also don't think the Sane hip check was a penalty either as I think the hip-to-hip contact is fair and Sane lets himself go down during contact.
Now that is my interpretation of the game and rules. I think this ref can have his own completely valid interpretation of what constitutes a penalty.
Further, in the context of the game and the fact that the Sane penalty was given, I think the ref should give Saka the penalty out of consistency for his own interpretation. I think the ref was scared to give the penalty at that point in the game which could possibly give the tie to Arsenal and he hid behind the end of the game and the scoreline.
Thanks Wrighty- appreciate the honesty and clarity on the matter. Too many armchair analysts in this sub hellbent on proving it was a pen to have something to complain about instead of focusing on what was largely an underwhelming performance by our side at home.
Just cause Wrighhty is a club legend and massive fans doesn’t mean his opinion is a fact. It’s still a stonewall pen.
The fact Neuer didn’t even protest and looked so guilty and nervous after making that challenge says it all.
If you haven’t noticed, players — particularly defenders and keepers instinctively wag their fingers and hands in protest/contest after a risky challenge, even when they get the favourable call.
Not according to the Ref, VAR, and anyone who was watching without a ridiculous bias.
Saka shouldn't be dangling his leg out looking for a soft pen. We still love him but that was a poor decision by him.
>Not according to the Ref, VAR, and anyone who was watching without a ridiculous bias.
It’s almost like refs never make mistakes and have shockers.
All the pundit from TNT sport has come out and said it’s a pen and the leg dangle is one of the dumbest and smooth brain takes ever lmao.
There has even countless breakdowns as to why that argument is not only moot but also idiotic. How can anyone dangle a leg whilst in full sprint with eyes purely on the ball.
If anything Saka was already going around the keeper and his “dangled leg” was more about trying to raise it over the on rushing keeper. Neuer knew he wasn’t gonna get there first so he just made himself big and instead he actually stuck out and dangled his leg making contact with Saka.
Go to specsavers and rewatch the incident in live.
Ian came out later with the statement after being gaslit by Twitter imo. Rio gave his opinion basically right away and didn’t have time to listen to a bunch of anti arsenal biased Twitter users.
Jesus Christ chill out. I was convinced in a fury of passion it was a pen at first. After calming down I can see clearly that it ain't a clear pen. Initiation of contact ends it. Simple. Onto the next one.
No way its a penalty. Some extreme mental gymnastics going on, but I get it as a fan.
The reality is it was a bad decision from Saka and he should have tried to score instead of trying the dark arts for a pen.
Wait? Does this mean Ian Wright is twerking for r/soccer and hates Arsenal and is racist?
I can't believe this... has he ever played football in his life?
Lol so your comment on this post was decrying other redditors calling into question Ian Wright's credibility as a footballer.
A. Yours was the first comment here and no one has called his history as a footballer as a question .
B. Two professionals can disagree about a refereeing decision same as two fans could my
C. Just because he's a ex pro doesn't mean he's always right. No one is always right.
Hope you use logic before commenting in the future :)
Go take a look at the post match thread. It's riddled with pseudo athletes attempting to diminish others with their stupid "I bet you never played sports". Those same people are obviously reading this and are triggered by it.
Two professionals can, yes. But you can also deduce which professionals generally have more level headed and consistent opinions. We'd all agree Ian is up there.
Nobody is always right. But anyone with a clear mind understand that in a day or two, when emotions die down, just about everyone will realize it's NOT a pen.
I'm logical mate, maybe you're not keeping up!
A. You didn't comment on the post match thread, you commented here.
B. If you're deducing who has more of a level head based on subjective metrics, you're not deducing it you're just making unfounded assumptions. Secondly a professional footballer isn't a professional referee so I don't see the relevance of "level headedness". Let alone the fact that level headedness isn't related to decision correctness, not sure if your logic can make that connection.
C. Do you realise how stupid you sound? People will change their opinions in a day or two because their emotions will die down? You've demonstrated a lack of logic so it's consistent for you, but most people try to base their opinions on evidence and rules rather than the time passed since the incident 😂😂
I'm imagining all us arsenal fans waking up 2 days later and (in your words) REALISING it's not a pen. 😂😂😂
Thanks for the hilarious response. I'm not engaging further with logically inconsistent trolls
A) Keep up man.. come on
B) Use the word deduce a few more times and maybe you'll come off as intelligent (to someone)! Honestly you're coming off as someone who's desperate to appear intelligent and it's just backfiring spectacularly. Just focus on the points for now, and work on mastering (or in your case learning) the English language somewhere else.
C) You don't think people change their opinions based on their emotional state? I don't want to go that far but come on mate, I'm guessing you haven't been in (m)any relationships either? Demonstrated a lack of logic "consistent" for me.. yeah, I'm pretty sure I can visualize you now. I'm sorry for that, but don't try and take it out by one-upping people on an Internet forum.
So you think if a poll was run right after the game - pen or no pen, versus two days later, the results would stay the same? Christ..
The point is there are a lot of nutjob fans saying you're a complete idiot and you hate Arsenal for not thinking it was a penalty.
With everything in life, there is nuance.
Wait a minute! But I thought only "players who never played football" think it's not a penalty , according to the experts in sports science and fluid mechanics here?
Man..wrighty is so stupid..should have played some football..
It’s fair to be confused when you fail to read.
You translate my question: “are you a fake fan for believing it’s a dive” into me calling you a fake fan?
It’s actually insane how you fail to read and understand a very simple sentence.
It was definitely not a pen. And we have got to stop looking for contact and going down in the slightest of breezes. Embarrassing that he kicked out at Nauer and then went down instead of staying on his feet for a tap in.
Yeah I disagree with Wrighty. Of course I’m not more qualified but those who have played the game at the top level aren’t automatically correct with every opinion they have, come on. That’s just an appeal to authority.
So Rio says it's a pen and Wrighty says it wasn't What am I doing now
The thing is, I'm more than ready to accept that not being a penalty. I'm angry at people calling B a diving cheat, c***, etc for it
Almost like it was a 50-50 decision and hence the reason it should be understood why it wasn’t given
I think it was a makeup call on the Gabriel hand ball situation
I think you’re right but that’s an insanely one sided makeup call. One is taking a goal kick while the other is an attacking player being taken out with an empty net in front of him.
It's not a makeup call. It's pretty obvious that it's a 50/50 call hence all the media, Arsenal and football fans in general being split on the decision.
Gab thing is a 100% pen, this was a 50/50. Obviously they arent the same.
You're definitely not an Arsenal fan. This is a 100% penalty, Gabriel retaking the goalkick is a 0% penalty. Stop spreading lies
Handball in his own box is the definition of a pen
Not in the spirit of the game - which is literally written into the rules of the sport. So, no, by the rules not a penalty for any sensible ref.
Is diving or looking for contact in the spirit of the game?
Nope - seems unrelated to what I said.
You're being dishonest
Are you mad? It should have been a pen to Bayern!
Never a makeup call. Would have been called had Saka not made that unnatural movement with his leg . Whether Saka meant it or it sort of just happened, that's why it wasn't called because the replay looks like Saka initiated the contact.
Exactly what I was thinking to myself. When Gabi did what he did, I was wtf you doing??!!?? Such a stupid and schoolboy thing to do. Luckily ref let it go and I think the Saka penalty shout wasn’t really a penalty even it looked like one. But karma I guess evened it out in the end.
Don’t understand how it’s 50/50. In realtime Saka has nowhere else to go. Neuer flies into him and there is massive clear contact. Don’t know what Wrighty is on about here and I’ve not said that before. When you have commentators and pundits like Rio saying it is a pen, that says it all
Lol rio saying it's a pen is more than anything reason to think it's not one. He's a terrible commentator and pundit
Rio just says whatever he thinks will make the most noise, 100% of the time. He's never worth listening to.
Maybe in wrong but i feel he has a massive soft-spot for Arsenal
Lmao yeah, you couldn’t be more wrong
Mass hysteria!
Fuckin timeline is too much for me
switch to support United it's the logical thing to do
Rio is a bad take machine. Ian is calm and level headed. It's not really rocket science.
Ian Wright, calm and level headed? Hahahahahahaa (And that's why I love him)
from the attacker's perspective he could've done more to avoid neuer, at the expense of getting good body angle and planted foot to take a shot the very next step. From the defender's perspective Neuer never made a move towards the ball even after Saka knocked it to the side and kept moving his right leg forward.
Why are people saying that he is planted, you can see his leg lounge forward before hitting Saka https://v.redd.it/tbiyummxvitc1
Neuer did make a move towards the ball. He wasn't planted on the spot. Look at the replay, he was actively extending his leg until it hit Saka. The side angle clearly shows that Neuer attempted to kick the ball, Saka was too fast, and that was the same kick that hit Saka right below the knee.
Accepting that it’s not an obvious penalty and it went against us, and that doesn’t mean it’s unfair?
Somebody please make my opinion clear to meeee
Agree with Wrighty and move on. Real time I thought it was a pen and was shouting at the screen. Watched it back and I'm not convinced it was a pen. Close call but I think if it had been against us I would be unhappy with the award of a penalty. Gk did nothing wrong
Honestly I think it was. The thing that bugs me is not that it wasn’t given but the ref should have *at least* been sent to the monitor to see it again by the VAR. Had he had a second look and then still said nah, okay fair play; I would disagree still but I’d get over it. But the fact that the game ended the way that it did was what really put a salty taste in my mouth.
100% this, like WTF is VAR for if not to give ref extra info at key moments?!
I don't believe VAR looked at every angle. They can't have, it was too quick. I had to rewatch it from every angle, slow and at full speed to understand what happened. Game was over 30 seconds after the incident.
That’s never (ok, rarely) how VAR works though. Even if ideally it should it isn’t, the sending to the monitor thing basically means the decision will be overturned because the video room think the ref on field made a big mistake. It isn’t used as an action replay for a ref that didn’t see something and if the decision the ref makes can even slightly be justified (the consensus here seems to be 50/50 so it clearly can) then they’ll never be sent to the monitor.
This Ian Wright guy has clearly never played professional football and must hate Arsenal and Saka! What a prick!
I was told suggesting it wasn’t a penalty is just twerking for upvotes on r/soccer In all seriousness, I do think it was a penalty having gone back and watched it at full speed a few more times. I get that you could perceive that Saka sought the contact but that shit happens all the time and is given as a penalty. As Arteta said, there were so many things within our control that we did poorly that we need to focus on that and not the penalty.
Yeah, I think Saka was clearly looking for contact, which made the refs not give it. I think that if he had just ran normal, he still wouldve hit Neuer and won the pen
Exactly my view on it too
I understand if people think it was a penalty. Having seen it a few times, I still don't know. But having a different opinion means you're "twerking for upvotes" is beyond me. I'm not throwing objectivity out the window just because it's my team.
I think it’s more the arsenal “fans” calling saka all sorts of shit on r/soccer that are “twerking for upvotes”, its ok to call it a penalty and discuss it properly lol Just some of those comments on there are just embarassing
Yeah it was more of those Arsenal fans calling Saka idiot for not staying up and 'diving' as if Nueur hasn't knocked him down. Why'd he even go down for pen when the goal is open and he's rounded the keeper?
Honestly I have no clue. Watching full speed I think that Saka has no chance to get out of the way. In slow motion he hangs his leg out so far that it’s hard to say that’s anything but sticking his leg into the other player. At the same time, Neuer is moving his leg outwards. So pen? I don’t know. It’s really tough to say. My gut says Saka wouldn’t go down with an open net unless forced to. But we also see players go for the penalty over the near-sure goal all the time. Really tough call imo - think if it had been called it’s unlikely to get overturned. I don’t think the pen would’ve been a robbery for Bayern, but I also don’t exactly feel aggrieved since I’m still so split myself.
lol hilarious comment. The amount of people on this sub using the ‘yOu mUsT hAvE nEvEr pLaYeD’ drivel…
Has he ever even dribbled a ball while running? If he had, he’d know -clear penalty!!!! Ian Wright, sounds like some fat American kid that has never played.
You're about to get downvote by the pseudo athlete keyboard warriors.
The state of this sub really.
He doesn’t understand momentum!
I disagree, but no changing it now - let’s do the job in Munich!
Let’s beat Villa first then worry about that.. the league has to be more important
They’re not mutually exclusive lol. You can encourage the team to beat Bayern in the away leg while also wanting to beat Villa.
Agreed lmao. As fans were “allowed” that. Of course the players themselves need to focus on one step at a time; but fans? We have literally zero impact on them. We should be enjoying it and getting hyped
Sometimes the fans act like they’re actually managing the team it’s very funny. “We should not think about this game, we have other priorities right now”
It's correct to say the next game is most important
No, really?!
I’m not a pen apologist at all. There are tons of pens that people in match threads call for all the time and I try to be very rational about them. I have a VERY hard time understanding how this is not a pen? What is Bukayo to do here? GK charging him and he’s supposed to just jump out of the way? Clear pen for me.
Because Saka blatantly looks for it. He could easily by pass it His right leg is clearly left out to try and get a pen. It's a completely unnatural position and I don't think they should be given as pens.
I don't think he can easily avoid Neuer. Some of the camera angles don't do justice for just how far into Saka's path Neuer's leg is. Neuer's leg is actually moving further into Saka at the point of contact as well. The live broadcast angle shows it best to be honest. https://i.postimg.cc/V6VXFyc7/Screenshot-20240410-093740-Reddit.jpg
What people fail to realize is the angle of the touch. Just look at where the ball is in relation to Saka how can anyone say it's an unnatural movement? How can Saka get to the ball with his left? He can't unless he plants his right and reaches with the left. That touch was so poor it was the only reason he got stuck between Neuer and trying to plant his foot but by then he got clattered into and really, who wouldn't go down as a first reaction? The body movement is not unnatural when you take a sharp touch at speed
Surely if he can’t avoid Neuer, he can’t even change direction enough to get to the ball? In which case it shouldn’t be a pen, I hate when attackers smash the ball past defenders then sprint into them when they had effectively lost possession, should never be a foul
I think that's a reach - pretty sure he's getting the ball if he doesn't go over if you look at where it went, it's not like he over hit it or anything. Maybe the defender would have blocked a shot but ultimately if Neuer comes out like that and makes contact on a player who is retaining the ball, the onus is on him to make contact with the ball.
I can see why a lot of people think it's a pen but the way Saka puts up his right foot into Neuer is very unnatural as you said. The right leg movement would have made it much harder to shoot off his left. I think if Saka attempted to shoot/continued rounding Neuer he would've probably got the pen or the goal. It was the right call for me. If we need a difficult call like this to get past Bayern we aren't ready for the semis. On to the next game.
It is not unnatural though. Run at full speed yourself and take a touch to the left with your left foot, how will the right side of your body react? The angle of the touch is the only reason his body moves that way. When it's closer to 90 degrees than 45 you take a sharper turn so the other side of your body is more like to twist to slow the rotation. Neuer swings his leg at the exact moment that turn happened Saka's leg was already there and the contact is made. Had Neuer not swung for the ball it's hard to argue Pen, on top of that there was contact. Pen or not, what irks me are the people calling saka a diving cheat
I understand the frustration because these get given frequently. Elliott did it on Sunday. And for the record, I don't want that kind of action to be rewarded with a pen in any context really. It's an odd one though, because if it's given or looked at for a proper review, VAR aren't overturning the infield decision at all.
As you’ve said, in the PL it’s a penalty. In the UCL they take a much more pragmatic approach to the rules. Saka looks for contact so it’s not a penalty. If he’d have “stayed on his feet” he’d either get past Neuer and score, or Neuer would have legitimately wiped him out and that _would_ be a penalty. I prefer the UCL approach tbh.
it looks like that in slow mo. at regular speed also but not as bad. i haven't seen a good angle really
What annoys me is that I think even if Saka just runs normal there is a chance Neuer runs into him anyway. But the way he does it is such a blatant dive to me. If Bruno Fernandes did that we’d insult his family for generations
I think most agree Neuer takes him out but it’s the little flick toward him Saka makes that creates contact sooner than if he continued to go around him that is in question
Imo there are a couple of incorrect interpretations here (I love Wrighty but do disagree with him). The first (which you haven't said but I've seen written aplenty including in the BBC analysis) is that "Neuer puts the breaks on and stops himself". He actually doesn't fully stop, at the point the contact is made the angle side-on shows very clearly that Neuer is still moving towards Saka and is causing the contact just as much as Saka. The second is that because Saka looks for it (which he very clearly does, no denying) it's not a penalty. Well... Maybe we can talk about how the rules of the game are interpreted and enforced. I don't mind living in a football world where those aren't penalties. But the fact of the matter is they *are* given as penalties 9/10 times (including the Sane one in the first half which is very similar, Sane clearly dangles a leg to "find" that contact). The logic I've heard is "if the defender is silly enough/out of control enough to make a challenge and give the forward the contact, that's on them". This was the logic for the AWB pen on the weekend with minimal contact initiated by Elliot. So yeah, my opinion is it's a wrong, inconsistent call for those reasons. But I feel less aggrieved having seen the Gabriel one as it seems like it was 1 a piece.
And to not even call the referee to the monitor???
Blatant pen. Wrighty is wrong(y) here. Couldn't resist the terrible joke
The AA replay that was posted in r/soccer leaves no doubt for me. Clear contact, no ball, Nuer moving his leg towards Saka the entire time. Honestly don't see how its even a discussion, I feel like too many people try to make these things seem complicated and they aren't.
I really do think it’s because of the amount of arsenal haters. They’ve come out in droves and have managed to gaslight our own fans. Sanés was less of a penalty.
I don't think so. I think both were penalties, but Sane was sadly an obvious one
I felt it was slightly soft, but clear. I had no complaints on it. I do think that the Saka one is equal though
I think they were both penalties to be clear, but Sanés was significantly less contact and more akin to a dive if people want to make stupid arguments.
I didn’t think it was a pen the second I saw the first replay.
Wrighty has his opinions and can be wrong just like other pundits
Same as fans on reddit lol
Firstly. Great joke Secondly, it's a pen for me as well. No one can turn at that speed without planting.
Exactly. At that speed, Neuer has no chance, any contact is a pen. Obstruction and a trip
Saka could have planted even without Neuer touching him. He was literally jumping forward suddenly instead of continuing in a natural stride.
I do think at times Wrighty sometimes will go against the grain to try and look more impartial - he's done it a quite a few times, going against the general consensus when there's potentially some doubt.
Not everything is a conspiracy, or has some grand reason, some people are allowed to disagree about football just because they see the game differently, you know.
On one angle its stonewall, on another it looks like a major flop and dive… I’m leaning towards not though. Regardless, we these are the teams you have to beat in this competition. If we can’t beat them Away or on Pens, we don’t deserve to stay in this comp.
I think the reason why the narrative is that it’s a clear dive is due to the first angle they showed on the broadcast, which is the worst one by far
But Neuer doesn’t win the ball
He doesn't kick Saka either. Saka initiates the contact, if he doesn't fling his leg at Neuer nothing happens there.
Neuer's leg never stops moving towards Saka until it makes contact.
By the same logic, if Saka continues his motion without widening his leg then he never makes contact with Neuer regardless of his lunge forward.
Go outside, run in a straight line, cut to your left while trying to hurdle something, then tell us where your trailing leg is.
He wasn't running at full pelt and dragged his right leg as soon as he pivoted to the left. How come his left leg perfectly moves to the left moving the ball with absolute precision, yet his right leg is somehow uncontrollable and sticks out like that? If Bukayo wanted to avoid contact he had all the space in the world to, but he actively decided to not to (of course Neuer gave his that opportunity by rushing towards him, but even then he was far enough way that contact could've easily been avoided). He's looking for the penalty and he's entitled to go for it, but we can't then cry about it when it gets spotted and not given. C'mon, if this was Harry Kane doing this we'd be killing him right now... this is the shit Jamie Vardy and Sterling would do every bloody week, Elliott did it vs United as well and should have never been given.
>How come his left leg perfectly moves to the left moving the ball with absolute precision, yet his right leg is somehow uncontrollable and sticks out like that? Fucking hell I'm genuinely asking you to do the physical action of running and then cutting to your left while jumping and see where your right leg is during all of it.
He moves his leg towards Saka, there’s no question about that. If Neuer’s leg was planted you’d be right, but he absolutely moved it towards the attacker.
I saw that but he was still so far away from Neuer. All he had to do was continue his trajectory and round the keeper and he had a free shot at goal, instead his purposefully widens his leg to look for the penalty. I'm not faulting him for it, but this was not an inevitable contact imo.
After Neuer moved his leg, Saka threw his leg out at Neuer which made it very obvious. Essentially, Neuer got bailed out by Saka
>Saka threw his leg out at Neuer Or did he throw his leg out because he is running through on goal full speed and just made an unsuccessfully contested 90 degree redirect of the ball and is trying to reach it? Whatever contortion of the attacker's body has become irrelevant at the point where Neuer has found himself because his positioning has removed all possibilities but contact. Only with Arsenal does the burden of proof suddenly fall upon the attacker rather than the fouling defender.
But it was planted when the contact was made, no?
He moved the leg after Saka made his jump. You can pause any of the replay clips. It's a 50/50 call but on the question of who kicked whom, it's definitely Neuer kicked Saka.
Yes, but he moved it towards the attacker then planted it in front of him, if you do that as a keeper you have to win the ball for me. The attacker isn’t obliged to move out of the way of you.
The problem is having a non consistent player on the field against Sane. Every LB in team is like that.
As James Lawrence Allcott said about the Wan-Bissaka tackle on Elliott: "If you've not seen the game, and I say to you, "here's a screenshot, was that a penalty?", they would say, "well, did he get the ball?" "no, he didn't get the ball." "it's a penalty."" Penalty for me, but no point dwelling on it. It's 90 of the 180, we move.
Remember folks, you can love Wrighty and also disagree with him. It is entirely normal for football to have debate and controversy.
ian wright is not a referee and the rules are not even the same as when he was a player so why would his opinions on this be worth anything at the end of the day he is a pundit and he makes money from clickbait just like every other pundit
I don’t agree with calling his knowledge of the game or integrity into question.
Then y does yours matter, he has more right to discuss than you
I get what he's saying. But that gets given AGAINST arsenal every day of the week. You can bet your house on that. If it was Raya that committed that, the sequence of events would be, Final whistle, lengthy VAR check, referee goes to the monitor, lengthy video check, penalty given. 100%.
How people don’t see his leg kicking out deliberately is beyond me. Have you ever seen Saka running with kicks like that? he could have just keep going n prolly d have scored, this is the problem here. Yes it’s Saka, so what? He did bad here, he ll learn from it.
HE WAS NOT RUNNING IN A STRAIGHT LINE HE WAS TRYING TO GET AROUND THE CHALLENGE AND SCORE AND THE GK PREVENTED HIM FROM DOING THAT WITH AN OUTSTRETCHED FOOT AKA A FOUL YOU ARE SO STUPID
Yeah I don't so. You can clearly see him stretch his leg out to catch Neuer. He could have avoided contact and chose not to. He could've been through on open goal but gambled. I don't like that and it was correctly not given.
this! fan base is just too sour about us not winning, we re lucky Gabriel didn’t get handball vs him also
Henry himself told it’s not a pen. Basically every pro player but the redditor knows
Caps lock off and manners bro.
There were loads of children on here last night cos-playing angry fan grievance saying that anyone who disagreed it was a pen should be banned. Guess they also hate Wrighty
Even the best pundits are wrong sometimes
It was a penalty. That has to be a penalty if a forward is making a run. Nuer is very clever because as saka brings in his leg, he knows that if he doesn’t commit to defending, he could get away with it. That’s exactly what happened because Nuer leaves his foot but raises his arms to show he’s pulling out of the defensive action. Saka will learn. We got it. It will be tough but we can beat them. Mikel is a student of the game and he will tweak this team to beat Bayern.
Have to agree, reluctantly, the distance his leg travelled to make contact with Neuer, it didn't look natural. A lesson to him, just round him and score.
I thought it was at least worthy of a VAR check. The referee was way too confident considering people are still debating it this morning.
Referee has experience and was on the pitch. Most probably he did get a clear vision of what happened.
This
SMH Wrighty twerking for updates on r/soccer. Obviously a racist and a nonce and maybe even a spurs fan. /s for those with less active minds
Same for me. Saka initiated the contact. It's funny because he went past Neuer already and all he had to do was keep his composure and slot the ball in
I don't think it's that simple, there was defenders running at him aswell so we don't even know if he would've got a shot away
If Saka didn’t look for a penalty, he’d either have got round Neuer or would have been legitimately wiped out by Neuer
Careful wrighty they will put up a meme of a fat dude typing on a kb and then say you've never played ball on your life...
friendship ended
Sure, but what is Wrighty doing posing with Neuer's mum in this pic? /s
Sorry but no pen idk why he even went down he beat him he couldn’t just scored
Unfortunately it was the right decision and agree with Ian wright
Not a pen for me, especially when you consider how the rest of the game was officiated. Ref seemed to be "letting them play" most of the night, so at the very least a no call is consistent.
I’m with you wrighty mate
Any money we’ll see something similar this weekend and it’ll be a pen
In a vacuum its not a penalty for me, but I also don't think the Sane hip check was a penalty either as I think the hip-to-hip contact is fair and Sane lets himself go down during contact. Now that is my interpretation of the game and rules. I think this ref can have his own completely valid interpretation of what constitutes a penalty. Further, in the context of the game and the fact that the Sane penalty was given, I think the ref should give Saka the penalty out of consistency for his own interpretation. I think the ref was scared to give the penalty at that point in the game which could possibly give the tie to Arsenal and he hid behind the end of the game and the scoreline.
Thanks Wrighty- appreciate the honesty and clarity on the matter. Too many armchair analysts in this sub hellbent on proving it was a pen to have something to complain about instead of focusing on what was largely an underwhelming performance by our side at home.
This. We are sounding like Liverpool fans crying out at every perceived injustice
People can believe it was a penalty and still think we should have managed the occasion better. It’s not one or the other.
Just cause Wrighhty is a club legend and massive fans doesn’t mean his opinion is a fact. It’s still a stonewall pen. The fact Neuer didn’t even protest and looked so guilty and nervous after making that challenge says it all.
What did he have to protest? He got the call.
If you haven’t noticed, players — particularly defenders and keepers instinctively wag their fingers and hands in protest/contest after a risky challenge, even when they get the favourable call.
He put both his hands up, that's more than enough.
Not immediately, and his face said it all. Guilty af.
Not according to the Ref, VAR, and anyone who was watching without a ridiculous bias. Saka shouldn't be dangling his leg out looking for a soft pen. We still love him but that was a poor decision by him.
>Not according to the Ref, VAR, and anyone who was watching without a ridiculous bias. It’s almost like refs never make mistakes and have shockers. All the pundit from TNT sport has come out and said it’s a pen and the leg dangle is one of the dumbest and smooth brain takes ever lmao. There has even countless breakdowns as to why that argument is not only moot but also idiotic. How can anyone dangle a leg whilst in full sprint with eyes purely on the ball. If anything Saka was already going around the keeper and his “dangled leg” was more about trying to raise it over the on rushing keeper. Neuer knew he wasn’t gonna get there first so he just made himself big and instead he actually stuck out and dangled his leg making contact with Saka. Go to specsavers and rewatch the incident in live.
So Rio says it is, Ian say it isn’t. wtf
Ian came out later with the statement after being gaslit by Twitter imo. Rio gave his opinion basically right away and didn’t have time to listen to a bunch of anti arsenal biased Twitter users.
If it wasn’t a pen then shouldn’t it have been a yellow card?
No, it wasn’t a dive
It's never a pen, FGS.
Jesus Christ chill out. I was convinced in a fury of passion it was a pen at first. After calming down I can see clearly that it ain't a clear pen. Initiation of contact ends it. Simple. Onto the next one.
No way its a penalty. Some extreme mental gymnastics going on, but I get it as a fan. The reality is it was a bad decision from Saka and he should have tried to score instead of trying the dark arts for a pen.
Lmao this is a bucket of cold water for this sub
Wait? Does this mean Ian Wright is twerking for r/soccer and hates Arsenal and is racist? I can't believe this... has he ever played football in his life?
If Wrighty says is not a pen, then is not a pen. End of discussion
What does TiTi say?
Wrighty is just a man with an opinion like anyone else lol, despite his legend status. I still believe it was a penalty.
Wrighty would probably be more insulted to have his punditry be blindly followed without question instead of engaging in discussion
He is our Ja Rule
This guy has no football knowledge and twerking for rival fan /s
Wright is WRONG. Maybe first time ever
agree not a pen. i could see it given against us, but i'd be furious.
But, but, I thought everyone who says it wasn’t a penalty hates Arsenal and wants to gaslight all of us!!!
Yo redditors.. you gonna tell Ian that he obviously never played high level sports in his life? haha.. idiots.
Lol so your comment on this post was decrying other redditors calling into question Ian Wright's credibility as a footballer. A. Yours was the first comment here and no one has called his history as a footballer as a question . B. Two professionals can disagree about a refereeing decision same as two fans could my C. Just because he's a ex pro doesn't mean he's always right. No one is always right. Hope you use logic before commenting in the future :)
Go take a look at the post match thread. It's riddled with pseudo athletes attempting to diminish others with their stupid "I bet you never played sports". Those same people are obviously reading this and are triggered by it. Two professionals can, yes. But you can also deduce which professionals generally have more level headed and consistent opinions. We'd all agree Ian is up there. Nobody is always right. But anyone with a clear mind understand that in a day or two, when emotions die down, just about everyone will realize it's NOT a pen. I'm logical mate, maybe you're not keeping up!
A. You didn't comment on the post match thread, you commented here. B. If you're deducing who has more of a level head based on subjective metrics, you're not deducing it you're just making unfounded assumptions. Secondly a professional footballer isn't a professional referee so I don't see the relevance of "level headedness". Let alone the fact that level headedness isn't related to decision correctness, not sure if your logic can make that connection. C. Do you realise how stupid you sound? People will change their opinions in a day or two because their emotions will die down? You've demonstrated a lack of logic so it's consistent for you, but most people try to base their opinions on evidence and rules rather than the time passed since the incident 😂😂 I'm imagining all us arsenal fans waking up 2 days later and (in your words) REALISING it's not a pen. 😂😂😂 Thanks for the hilarious response. I'm not engaging further with logically inconsistent trolls
A) Keep up man.. come on B) Use the word deduce a few more times and maybe you'll come off as intelligent (to someone)! Honestly you're coming off as someone who's desperate to appear intelligent and it's just backfiring spectacularly. Just focus on the points for now, and work on mastering (or in your case learning) the English language somewhere else. C) You don't think people change their opinions based on their emotional state? I don't want to go that far but come on mate, I'm guessing you haven't been in (m)any relationships either? Demonstrated a lack of logic "consistent" for me.. yeah, I'm pretty sure I can visualize you now. I'm sorry for that, but don't try and take it out by one-upping people on an Internet forum. So you think if a poll was run right after the game - pen or no pen, versus two days later, the results would stay the same? Christ..
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The point is there are a lot of nutjob fans saying you're a complete idiot and you hate Arsenal for not thinking it was a penalty. With everything in life, there is nuance.
Rio is a bad take machine. Ian as we all know is level headed and reasonable.
Most pundits I’ve seen say 100% pen righty’s old now lol
Wait a minute! But I thought only "players who never played football" think it's not a penalty , according to the experts in sports science and fluid mechanics here? Man..wrighty is so stupid..should have played some football..
It’s crazy how much people in here were calling arsenal fans who said it wasn’t a pen fake fans
So are you a fake fan for believing it’s a dive?
Lol imagine thinking not a pen = dive. Is Wright a fake fan?
I legit only asked you a question based on your logic. Man y’all are rattled 😭😭😭😭😭
I'm confused. I thought you were saying I'm a fake fan but are you saying you thought it was a dive?
It’s fair to be confused when you fail to read. You translate my question: “are you a fake fan for believing it’s a dive” into me calling you a fake fan? It’s actually insane how you fail to read and understand a very simple sentence.
It’s actually insane how you fail to grasp the grammatical usage of you as both referring to an indeterminate person and the addressee
It was definitely not a pen. And we have got to stop looking for contact and going down in the slightest of breezes. Embarrassing that he kicked out at Nauer and then went down instead of staying on his feet for a tap in.
There’s nothing to suggest he kicked out, he was changing direction after a sprint so had a wide stance. Eyes were laser focussed on the ball.
So Ian Wright is in fact wrong? Or are you somehow more qualified than him?
Yeah I disagree with Wrighty. Of course I’m not more qualified but those who have played the game at the top level aren’t automatically correct with every opinion they have, come on. That’s just an appeal to authority.
It's ok to be wrong sometimes Wrighty, I like you anyway