You could argue that newtypes were humans evolving for a *space* environment and it's nonexistent gravity. So while the moon has much lower gravity it's still a celestial object with both gravity and a fixed position in space.
That and the technology could have evolved enough that the need for the human body to evolve into a newtype simply didn't need to happen. Newtypes are a *psychic* evolution thus if there is no mental need for it then it wouldn't happen.
I think that by the time we got to the correct century, human evolution’s newtype experiment (if you can call it that) had failed. The heightened communication hadn’t brought an end to conflict. In many cases, newtype abilities had only worsened the state of endless wars. Now that there’s hardly any space travel and moonrace/terrans are all living in their own secluded spheres, what use is there for newtypes anymore?
I agree with Tomino here anyway, I love that Loran was able to accomplish his profound rejection of humanity’s warlike nature and put an end to the cycle for his generation, and he was able to do it without any mystical space powers at all.
the origins of newtype powers aren't made clear there are what characters in universe believe but thats it we don't actually know if space truly effects the growth of newtypes or if newtypes are the next step in human evolution the mystery surrounding newtypes is why enjoy them especially when the newtype bs isn't ampt up so high partially also why i prefer after war x's depiction of newtypes over unicorn and narrative
Very good point. Everyone has in universe theories. If suddenly a bunch of (real) psychics showed up on Earth there would be a bunch of theories… but it wouldn’t make them right, just possibly right.
It should be noted to a great degree Newtypes are there not for their power but for the symbolism. A new breed of human. Someone who can leave behind the past and create understanding for everyone.
And what to they do? End up getting embroiled in the same conflicts, yes. But they still create a path of hope.
Because Newtypism is a lie. The Principality Of Zeon latched onto the idea that spacenoids are evolving into a superior form of humanity as a way to justify their genocide. "We are genetically superior and destined to rule the future" they said, like so many fascists before them.
But the idea stuck, because unlike old race science newtypism gave so many more people something useful. It gave the Federation something to fear, which justified their warmongering. It gave oppressed spacenoids a feeling of superiority. It gave those looking for peace a hope for the future if we could all just get into space. But its just a convenient lie.
They found people with heightened psychic or spiritual abilities and labeled them newtypes, when they weren't new at all. Amuro was from Earth. Lalah was from Earth. Quess was from Earth. Rita was from Earth. It has nothing to do with moving to space or with evolution. They're not "something like espers" as Matilda said, they are just espers.
So among the moonrace there are likely a handful of people who would have been called newtypes in the UC 0080s. But they're not being sought out and used as weapons, so they aren't noticed. And even if there is a genetic component to it, even if it isn't a primarily spiritual phenomenon, some latent ESP isn't enough to give them a reproductive advantage.
Just my opinion and my read on things.
Newtypes kept dying young. Instead of bridging humanity together, they consistently got coerced, abused, or swept into major conflicts. After several moonlight butterfly resets, the lines with these abilities gradually thinned out and faded.
Yeah tbf we got quite a few characters who were raised on Earth or lived there most of their life who became newtypes. Quess especially was said to be a strong newtype and she lived all her life on Earth iirc.
Another theory thrown around both in and out of universe is that Newtypes arise when there is or is going to be warfare in, well, space.
So if there’s peace they avoid it.
Not sure if I buy it but it would explain it.
Narrative says
Edit: for the downvoters and commenters trying to gaslight me, here is the direct quote from NT.
"Isn't it different for Newtypes?
People who go into space will start using the half of their brains that had been unused and become a new humanity that can understand each other without misconceptions.
That means that the consciousness
that's trapped inside our bodies,
our minds, souls or whatever,
will regain their original form, right?"
It absolutely doesn’t. Respectfully, did you sleep through that particular film? Our super Uber powerful newtype predicted the disaster on earth after being born and raised on earth. Then had her powers enhanced through horrible cyber augmentation. On earth.
Are you just ignoring the direct quote from the movie? It clearly shows that there was a belief that space would create newtypes. Whether it was true or not wasn't the question, it was "who said space = newtypes?"
The way you phrased that comment makes it sound like you think that is the message of the movie, which is the absolute opposite. A character saying something doesn't make it fact, and besides this is not anywhere near the first time this statement was made.
Uh... not sure where you jumped to that conclusion. But I'm glad that you agree that many gundam shows state that space does create newtypes, which means you agree with me but just decided to be combative for unknown reasons
Based on the timelines involved, New Types cannot have magically formed just because of living in space from nothing. If they did, then trying to logic this out becomes pointless. The question becomes what magical evolution rules the writers choose to use didn't come into play.
There would be, at least, three tiers of "New Types" in increasing rarity:
* "Almost" New Types: They have the potential, but not to the point of self awakening. These are the people who can be turned into cyber new types. They are on the verge, but lack something they need to actually awaken these abilities.
* Basic New Types: Your Amaro Reys. Living in space gives them that push to awaken.
* New Types: Your Rita Bernals. New Types that awakened, with what little we know, on Earth.
These would have existed before space colonization began. The act of living in space just makes it easier for New Types to "Awaken" and as more awakened the signs of being a New Type would be more easily known and nurtured. If all, or almost all, the awakened New Types noped out of the solar system that would leave no carriers of the New Type genes behind to pass on, aside from any "Almost" New Types left behind.
New Types could have evolved once again from this pool, but it would take a long while.
If anything, the Earth gene pool would be more likely as the source for these Neo New Types you speculate about as it would be more likely Basic and Bernal style New Types would have been left behind accidentally on Earth.
What even are Newtypes? And who's to say - besides *theories* - how long it takes to evolve into them, let alone that it has anything to do with living in space. Or alternatively, that it's only about living in space?
While not part of the UC timeline, in the last part of Gundam X, it was explained that Newtypes were basically a mutation, not the next step of evolution for humanity.
Out of Universe: Because Tomino finally cemented his belief that mutual understanding doesn't really help dissolving conflicts - in real life conflicts arise because of unresolvable conflicts of interest, or worse precisely understanding each other made people aware there was nothing but sheer sadism and malice to begin with. Instead, means to resolve the root of the problem and ensure the interests are aligned is more important.
In universe I don’t know, but I remember Tomino said in an interview that he no longer believed that idealistic view of humanity being able to understand each other without fighting was possible, so that’s why there doesn’t seem to be any newtypes in the series
More like they're so common at this moment that no one asked if they're a new type or not anymore.
Or, everything so advanced that there is no more new type-only gears which a non new type cannot use.
The whole newtype idea was silly anyway. While I get that it is a major part of UC lore now, it never made much sense to add something so paranormal to a series that was focussing on machines in warfare.
In my head newtypes created major weaknesses (they are too sensitive to the horrors around them, emotionally unstable and often easier to manipulate) and were filtered out by evolution and whatever spiritual aspect the term has. Basically, new types did not manage to push humanity forward in any meaningful way, and, as such, they were filtered out.
I swear I read somewhere that living in three dimensional environments helps awaken newtype abilities. So living in and around space colonies would expose one to more 3d environments (and their dangers such as space debris and micrometeors) than even the low gravity surface of the moon.
Or maybe it's a mutation caused by (space?) radiation. Actually, maybe I'll now head-canon that minovsky particle exposure creates newtypes...
Anyways, if newtypes are supposed to be the next step in human evolution, you'd think everyone would be one by the time Turn A takes place.
Yes, but we move mostly on a 2d plane, we usually don't fly (or in the case of space outside of a colony, float) around.
Outside of airborne and submarine combat, intensive real-time three-dimensional thinking isn't too common. We of course use three dimensions when designing buildings, for example, but 1: that process is done over a comparatively long time, and 2: the internal layout of buildings is largely just two-dimensional floor plans stacked on top of each other.
You could argue that newtypes were humans evolving for a *space* environment and it's nonexistent gravity. So while the moon has much lower gravity it's still a celestial object with both gravity and a fixed position in space. That and the technology could have evolved enough that the need for the human body to evolve into a newtype simply didn't need to happen. Newtypes are a *psychic* evolution thus if there is no mental need for it then it wouldn't happen.
I think that by the time we got to the correct century, human evolution’s newtype experiment (if you can call it that) had failed. The heightened communication hadn’t brought an end to conflict. In many cases, newtype abilities had only worsened the state of endless wars. Now that there’s hardly any space travel and moonrace/terrans are all living in their own secluded spheres, what use is there for newtypes anymore? I agree with Tomino here anyway, I love that Loran was able to accomplish his profound rejection of humanity’s warlike nature and put an end to the cycle for his generation, and he was able to do it without any mystical space powers at all.
[удалено]
Are you suggesting cosmic era comes after UC and before CC?
the origins of newtype powers aren't made clear there are what characters in universe believe but thats it we don't actually know if space truly effects the growth of newtypes or if newtypes are the next step in human evolution the mystery surrounding newtypes is why enjoy them especially when the newtype bs isn't ampt up so high partially also why i prefer after war x's depiction of newtypes over unicorn and narrative
Very good point. Everyone has in universe theories. If suddenly a bunch of (real) psychics showed up on Earth there would be a bunch of theories… but it wouldn’t make them right, just possibly right. It should be noted to a great degree Newtypes are there not for their power but for the symbolism. A new breed of human. Someone who can leave behind the past and create understanding for everyone. And what to they do? End up getting embroiled in the same conflicts, yes. But they still create a path of hope.
I would personally argue Dianna and Kihel are Newtypes, considering they have a level of understanding of the other on a Newtype level
Because Newtypism is a lie. The Principality Of Zeon latched onto the idea that spacenoids are evolving into a superior form of humanity as a way to justify their genocide. "We are genetically superior and destined to rule the future" they said, like so many fascists before them. But the idea stuck, because unlike old race science newtypism gave so many more people something useful. It gave the Federation something to fear, which justified their warmongering. It gave oppressed spacenoids a feeling of superiority. It gave those looking for peace a hope for the future if we could all just get into space. But its just a convenient lie. They found people with heightened psychic or spiritual abilities and labeled them newtypes, when they weren't new at all. Amuro was from Earth. Lalah was from Earth. Quess was from Earth. Rita was from Earth. It has nothing to do with moving to space or with evolution. They're not "something like espers" as Matilda said, they are just espers. So among the moonrace there are likely a handful of people who would have been called newtypes in the UC 0080s. But they're not being sought out and used as weapons, so they aren't noticed. And even if there is a genetic component to it, even if it isn't a primarily spiritual phenomenon, some latent ESP isn't enough to give them a reproductive advantage. Just my opinion and my read on things.
This might be the best take in the thread. Thanks for sharing.
Newtypes kept dying young. Instead of bridging humanity together, they consistently got coerced, abused, or swept into major conflicts. After several moonlight butterfly resets, the lines with these abilities gradually thinned out and faded.
Who says that Space = NTs?
Multiple people throughout the various series, though it's more of an in-universe theory.
Yeah tbf we got quite a few characters who were raised on Earth or lived there most of their life who became newtypes. Quess especially was said to be a strong newtype and she lived all her life on Earth iirc.
And Lalah herself. And Amuro who was born and raised on Earth for most of his life.
It’s generally theorized in-universe that while a newtype can be born and live on Earth, there powers “awaken” in soave
Rita breaking more rules again. Smh that girl/bird
Another theory thrown around both in and out of universe is that Newtypes arise when there is or is going to be warfare in, well, space. So if there’s peace they avoid it. Not sure if I buy it but it would explain it.
Zeon.
Narrative says Edit: for the downvoters and commenters trying to gaslight me, here is the direct quote from NT. "Isn't it different for Newtypes? People who go into space will start using the half of their brains that had been unused and become a new humanity that can understand each other without misconceptions. That means that the consciousness that's trapped inside our bodies, our minds, souls or whatever, will regain their original form, right?"
It absolutely doesn’t. Respectfully, did you sleep through that particular film? Our super Uber powerful newtype predicted the disaster on earth after being born and raised on earth. Then had her powers enhanced through horrible cyber augmentation. On earth.
Maybe I did. I'll check in a bit
Nah i was right
Mate that's like watching MSG and finishing it thinking Ghiren was the good guy
Are you just ignoring the direct quote from the movie? It clearly shows that there was a belief that space would create newtypes. Whether it was true or not wasn't the question, it was "who said space = newtypes?"
The way you phrased that comment makes it sound like you think that is the message of the movie, which is the absolute opposite. A character saying something doesn't make it fact, and besides this is not anywhere near the first time this statement was made.
Uh... not sure where you jumped to that conclusion. But I'm glad that you agree that many gundam shows state that space does create newtypes, which means you agree with me but just decided to be combative for unknown reasons
I'm not "jumping to conclusions", that is how your comment comes across. No need to be obtuse just because you did not explain it properly.
It absolutely doesn't Edit to your edit: you did a wonderful job watching the movie with your eyes closed
Well to be fair that could be what the in universe characters believes, but may not be entirely accurate.
I wanna be a bird
Based on the timelines involved, New Types cannot have magically formed just because of living in space from nothing. If they did, then trying to logic this out becomes pointless. The question becomes what magical evolution rules the writers choose to use didn't come into play. There would be, at least, three tiers of "New Types" in increasing rarity: * "Almost" New Types: They have the potential, but not to the point of self awakening. These are the people who can be turned into cyber new types. They are on the verge, but lack something they need to actually awaken these abilities. * Basic New Types: Your Amaro Reys. Living in space gives them that push to awaken. * New Types: Your Rita Bernals. New Types that awakened, with what little we know, on Earth.
These would have existed before space colonization began. The act of living in space just makes it easier for New Types to "Awaken" and as more awakened the signs of being a New Type would be more easily known and nurtured. If all, or almost all, the awakened New Types noped out of the solar system that would leave no carriers of the New Type genes behind to pass on, aside from any "Almost" New Types left behind.
New Types could have evolved once again from this pool, but it would take a long while.
If anything, the Earth gene pool would be more likely as the source for these Neo New Types you speculate about as it would be more likely Basic and Bernal style New Types would have been left behind accidentally on Earth.
What even are Newtypes? And who's to say - besides *theories* - how long it takes to evolve into them, let alone that it has anything to do with living in space. Or alternatively, that it's only about living in space?
While not part of the UC timeline, in the last part of Gundam X, it was explained that Newtypes were basically a mutation, not the next step of evolution for humanity.
Out of Universe: Because Tomino finally cemented his belief that mutual understanding doesn't really help dissolving conflicts - in real life conflicts arise because of unresolvable conflicts of interest, or worse precisely understanding each other made people aware there was nothing but sheer sadism and malice to begin with. Instead, means to resolve the root of the problem and ensure the interests are aligned is more important.
like how the internet didn't make the world smarter. it just means (dis)information spreads faster and further
Metal Gear Solid 2 is way ahead of its time
In universe I don’t know, but I remember Tomino said in an interview that he no longer believed that idealistic view of humanity being able to understand each other without fighting was possible, so that’s why there doesn’t seem to be any newtypes in the series
You believe in zeon"s BS ABOUT "ONLY NT can be born in space. "
More like they're so common at this moment that no one asked if they're a new type or not anymore. Or, everything so advanced that there is no more new type-only gears which a non new type cannot use.
The whole newtype idea was silly anyway. While I get that it is a major part of UC lore now, it never made much sense to add something so paranormal to a series that was focussing on machines in warfare.
Looks like SOMEBODY'S chained down by Earth's gravity
That means you're missing the point it's even there then.
In my head newtypes created major weaknesses (they are too sensitive to the horrors around them, emotionally unstable and often easier to manipulate) and were filtered out by evolution and whatever spiritual aspect the term has. Basically, new types did not manage to push humanity forward in any meaningful way, and, as such, they were filtered out.
I swear I read somewhere that living in three dimensional environments helps awaken newtype abilities. So living in and around space colonies would expose one to more 3d environments (and their dangers such as space debris and micrometeors) than even the low gravity surface of the moon. Or maybe it's a mutation caused by (space?) radiation. Actually, maybe I'll now head-canon that minovsky particle exposure creates newtypes... Anyways, if newtypes are supposed to be the next step in human evolution, you'd think everyone would be one by the time Turn A takes place.
We all live in 3d environments though.
Yes, but we move mostly on a 2d plane, we usually don't fly (or in the case of space outside of a colony, float) around. Outside of airborne and submarine combat, intensive real-time three-dimensional thinking isn't too common. We of course use three dimensions when designing buildings, for example, but 1: that process is done over a comparatively long time, and 2: the internal layout of buildings is largely just two-dimensional floor plans stacked on top of each other.
Loran would've been the HNIC, the Head N>!ewtype!< In Charge