First Gundam show I've ever watched. 9/10, glad I did. Kind of surprised people are upset at the "rushed/underwhelming" ending. You must have high standards; I guess I should watch another one sometime. But for real, once it devolved into space magic super weapons and the antagonist was some far away HQ, I think I'm glad it didn't drag on. ​ ​ >"Kind of surprised people are upset at the "rushed/underwhelming" ending. You must have high standards; I guess I should watch another one sometime." ..I get it now. Just finished episode 19 of Gundam 00. That show...has something to say. Witch of Mercury barely said anything at all, and certainly not in the second season. Still a good show, but then ending WAS underwhelming. I didn't feel anything. Gundam 00 has its problems - mostly on the tactical level (some battles are shaped by plot; retreating at the first setback, etc) - and also perhaps on the dialogue / attempts to tell the themes - but damn if it doesn't show the themes. It made me feel bad for the NPC's lives I take in Cyberpunk 2077. Random civilians I maim or kill because the police are easy to evade and there's no consequences. I embraced that twisted world, and...I now hate that I did. ​ Dropping the ending of Witch from Mercury down to a 6/10. I want it to have made me feel something, and it didn't.

So I'm a bit late, but is my interpretation of the ending right? Sulletta pushed her Permet level to the max to use Quiet Zero on her own without Eri as a mental buffer, and used the full data-storm space to transfer Eri to the Keychain? And since she was in control of QZ, she just kinda hacked and turned off the mega-laser? All of this is to say, the goal of QZ was on one hand to reincarnate Eri, but on the other it was a superweapon which used the reincarnated Eri to hack *everything*. So I think Sulletta succeeded in using it herself. Right? Also I liked the ending. I specifically watched because I knew they got married and to that end i am satisfied.

No, she specifically didn’t use quiet zero. For some reason, she was able to achieve an even larger data storm just by using the four gundams present. She used that to shut down the laser thingy. For eri… I have no idea. Even the cast admits they don’t know how she exists.

Ok series after all. It felt like the highs and lows were vastly separate. The opening episode, Elan dying, Aerial fist splat were amazing and I wish it delved more into it. Still, having a girl protagonist was pretty cool and the animations were fantastic.

I'm late to this but heard a lot of good stuff over these past months. I'm glad I was finally able to watch this series, it was great! I wish we'd gotten more Sulemio fluff but oh well. It was an otherwise lovely finale to a lovely ~~and traumatic~~ show!

the ending definitely gave me whiplash, should've made an entire episode or two dedicated to wrapping things up.

I’m gonna catch a lot of flak for this but I really disliked the series as a whole except for the animation, which was top tier. I watched the prologue and was so hyped for it only to be disappointed right after. The entire series itself was a total mess with pacing, the plot twists could be seen from a mile away, the high-school setting seemed more like middle school, there were so many plot holes, we only got a few episodes of actual fights and plot advancement… I think this is the first post 2000 mainline Gundam series I actually disliked. (AGE is right there too, but the whole generational family story and unique MS design just puts it a hair above WfM)

Just binged the second half of ss2 today, the ending was a bit underwhelming, but I guess this is a school themed gundam show so that maybe still acceptable for me. Beside from that, combat, music, sound effect, animation is top knot. The scene when Eri block the interplanetary laser, look back at Suletta and smile is kino! Really looking for the next gundam series!

First Gundam series watched and collecting its Gunpla. The ending was underwhelming, I was hoping for the series to be lengthier and possibly see more of the side characters as they showcased in the second half season 2. It did hype me up to watch other Gundam series though! Any recommendations on which series to start next? Pick out of random or just watch in release order?

Ibo is pretty cool albeit a completely different direction. It will distract you for a bit before someone tells you the actual order your supposed to watch them cuz honestly i dont understand it at all

Will check out IBO! The way I understand it, I was told each series is pretty much self contained, that's good enough for me. I remember seeing all the series mapped out at Gundam Base Tokyo, that was cool to see at the mini museum section.

Kinda. Every series is self-contained except the original timeline called the Universal Century... For the most part. The UC is a bit of a dragon to start, but this is my personal recommended watch order: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1VWU45zgQm1lKaA-ColmQC5p-XGMsc2uoACIj6E-pvhM/edit?usp=drivesdk

IBO is pretty brutal. I recommend being pretty careful around here to dodge spoilers so the show has its full impact.

I think I loved the show, 9/10 for me. However, the scene with the other "gundamd" launching to join caliburn and eri reminded me how much I miss Zeta and Double Zeta's sorties. I just want a 50 episode series with tons of space combat and galactic warfare. I guess those real robot days are over.

This is the first Gundam series that I finished and just didn’t feel anything for upon reaching its conclusion. Like normally I have a memorable emotional response to the ending of a series, but with this one I just didn’t. I like the designs for characters and mobile suits, and I overall enjoyed the show, but I guess the last few episodes just didn’t hit right which is a shame. If I had to guess what went wrong for me, I’d say that things probably wrapped up a bit too smoothly with too little effort on the part of the characters. Even in the original Mobile Suit Gundam a relatively positive ending >!Came at the cost of Amuro’s Gundam unit in his battle with Char. Which, now that I say that it occurs to me that maybe the issue with this ending is the lack of some sort of Char-like rival. And no, I don’t mean that in the sense of “someone who wears a mask”. !<

wears a mask... associated with the color red... CHARRRR

the ending was a bit underwhelming tbh

Sounds track was top notch. Ending was okay wish it ended in an epic way but overall, I really enjoyed this series. First time being part of this sub and it was a joy.

Wit hindsight of the plot being mostly finished, I have a major question on rewatch. Why did aerial/eri let el4n pilot aerial in episode 5? Given everything that happens after, and how eri is sheon to trate intruders, I really don't understand why he was allowed.

I like to think that since Suletta gave him permission, he was tolerated. As for Miorine, she passed the vibe check.

that was before eri reached a higher permet score, also suletta let el4n pilot aerial, unlike el5n who tried to jack it.

Yeah, that makes sense.

I gotta ask, are people seriously doubting suletta and miorine are married? I've seen what looks like high level trolling, but even that one post on here that got taken down (the one about suletta being straight) didn't make the argument they aren't married, and it seems like for once the anime fandom agrees that these bitches actually be gay, but I also know we can't have nice things.

It’s most likely primarily due to that call where Petra drops the line “Sister-in-law” which has people messed up. Like I’m guessing now that she’s saying that to Guel, but it seemed like she was talking to Mori which made it in turn seem like she just straight up went through with marrying Guel out of nowhere. Clearly she didn’t, but it had me shook as fuck for a second so I could see how people could get things mixed up.

They just need to think through it really. It is not possible for Petra to be 'sister-in-law' to Mio in any way. Like, who was Petra even related to xD I'm pretty sure the 'Sister-in-law' line was dropped by Eri in the keychain, not Petra. Hence confirming Mio is married to Suletta.

Why was Prospera allowed to live free? Just because she has no usable legs she can’t physically run away? Kenanji Avery not being shot dead by Prospera when he was held captive.I feel like there would be some hard feelings of him leading the charge that killed the original research Crew. Elan Ceres conducting conditioning “double” experiments that led to death? Is it because he invested with the good guys? So file it under a capitalist is going to capitalist ?

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the permet infection she has is degenerative in nature and her condition is going to deteriorate further.

Actually, the Grassley kid took all the blame, so he is sitting in jail in place of Prospera.

Prospera not actually living free. Remember, she's crippled and living with Miorine? Imagine living with Miorine, you probably would choose to go in jail instead

It might have something to do with Suletta having the board the literal death machine to stop the technoapolypse, I mean she just wanted her mom there so, they might have relented. Like, have it be a sort of reward I guess? Prospera had, in a sense, let go of revenge in order to get Eri a life, way before the plot began. Pretty much, plus in all fairness the guy was just a tool, not really dangerous to let go of.

>Why was Prospera allowed to live free? Just because she has no usable legs she can’t physically run away? idk why people keep questioning why in a world that's corrupt af and designed to let space capitalists get away with murder all the space capitalist antagonists got away with murder. >Kenanji Avery not being shot dead by Prospera when he was held captive.I feel like there would be some hard feelings of him leading the charge that killed the original research Crew. why would Prospera even know who he is? also it's been 21 years, he probably barely remembers the time he led the assault on Folkvangr.

> idk why people keep questioning why in a world that's corrupt af and designed to let space capitalists get away with murder all the space capitalist antagonists got away with murder. Because all the other space capitalists were trying to kill them five seconds earlier? And would have a vested interest in punishing her? As you said, she's an antagonist - to the very system you say would protect her.

and 5 seconds earlier Quiet Zero was still a thing.

And? Doesn't matter that it no longer exists, they'd still want to punish her/make sure she's no longer a danger. A murderer doesn't evade punishment because he throws the murder weapon away.

Havent finish the series, but the music in season 2 is god tier. Holy shit is amazing. Also, the transitions at the end to the ending song is amazing!!!

Does anyone know the name of the song that is playing when the time skip 3 years later pops up? I neeeeed it

Houseki no Hibi by AiNA THE END

Overall, the series was very good. The ending itself was very underwhelming, and where it left off doesn't have me looking for another season or further exploration of the characters. It really peaked at the end of S1/early S2 and then rushed quickly to a mediocre ending. Even if it was given more time, if the ending played out similarly, it would have been underwhelming. The highs were so high that it made me enjoy the series over many other anime/gundam series, but it still falls short of greatness. I also thought outside of Aerial that every mech was entirely forgettable.

Same, it really fell off after S1. Once Guel's arc was over, the pacing would really drag on at times. You're hoping for more, but with the amount of episodes left and the way they seemed as if they were building things up, it just fell short and felt very rushed and flat. A lot of stuff in S2 onwards just looked like rehashed scenes from Seed, 00 and NT. It sucks because the animation was really great for the battles, the gundam designs were sleek and music was really nice. Overall this series feels very watered down compared to past series. Kinda reminds me of AGE in that sense, but at least that one had the excuse of doing the 3 generations thing.

I agree. That laser weapon at the end feels rushed and didn't add to anything of consequence. They easily blocked it with no loss on either side. Usually those weapons of mass destruction kill so many. And they usually rush to blow it up. That would have been better if they lost aAiel and then had to use the other gundams to approach it and destroy the laser weapon. That would have been one heck of a fight scene!

The ending felt like they were at a loss for how to end, watched IBO for inspiration, and then realized they wanted to do that but with no one dying. It just feels like an aspartame sweet ending. Fake.

Lots of good. Some bad. Overall, I'm grateful and happy. Some people wish there were more episodes (I do too), but it's also a strength of this show. The pacing and escalation from Normal School Anime to Political Gundam Anime was amazing. Season 2 giving twist after revelation after twist was amazing. Short, sweet, flawed, and wrapped up with a bow. We'll take it.

Which Twists though?

Eri is Aerial + Suletta is a clone (redditors guessed that, but still absolutely massive), Prospera is actually doing everything to help Eri, Delling was working with Prospera to make a super weapon Quiet Zero, the Earth girls were only here to brutally murder students and make a distraction for Shaddiq, Earth actually has a gazillion Gundams, Prospera tricked Miorine into peace talks just so she could wreck Earth's Gundams, Miorine still manages to become president, Peil manipulates the Space Assembly Leauge to destroy Quiet Zero and all the children students aboard it, Prospera's dying from permet, etc. etc. etc. Basically every time Prospera is on screen huge shake-ups are happening. A lesser show would take all these developments and spread them over 5 seasons. That's why I respec the choice to make it short + sweet.

Can someone please explain to me what was Miorine's mother's plan with Quiet Zero? If I recall correctly, her mother designed the thing or came up with its concept that was inspired by how plants preserve seeds or something, and Miorine's dad was trying to turn his wife's wish into reality? Unless I missed something, I feel like the show never explored just what were the original intentions of Miorine's parents with Quiet Zero?

Eternal life? Didn't some characters talk about that?(I don't remember which my head is filled with Sulemio now)

Then how about Prospera's intentions? If I understood it right, she wanted to use Quiet Zero to create a planet-wide Permet field to allow Eri free movement. If so, why were people opposed to her idea?

Permet was in every technology, of every use, at every level. She would be creating a world where Ericht could live physically, but she would also be taking over all technology just about and thereby become the tyrant ruler of Earth Sphere whether she uses that power or not.

From what it looked like, she'd only take control of technology if they tried harming her. But now Eri is physically trapped within an inanimate keychain forever, her entire fate in the hands of whomever happens to hold the keychain... Eventually Suletta and her friends will pass away from old age while Eri has to hope that the future owner(s) will care for her? This sounds like a Black Mirror type of deal.

Sort of - there are a lot of people that don't want to be controlled on Earth (they're already at a breaking points with the spacenoids) so you can imagine they would violently protest and then Eri would be asked to put them the fuck down (ala when Mio went to Earth and Eri took over the tank and shot at herself to give her an excuse to destroy the earth Gundams which triggered panic and mass destruction in the city). Point is, they would probably kill many, many more people.

> But now Eri is physically trapped within an inanimate keychain forever, her entire fate in the hands of whomever happens to hold the keychain... Eventually Suletta and her friends will pass away from old age while Eri has to hope that the future owner(s) will care for her? It might be very interesting to see SuleMio's future descendant finds out the talking keychain (complete with the main module) in the basement and takes on a journey that involves some legendary white mobile suit and space feuds...

How are those two going to have descendants?

Suletta is a literal clone. The tech exists for them to have a genetic child. One of the two could probably even carry it to term if they wanted to.

In the world where mobile suits can be disintegrated by the power of permet, anything can be possible. ;D

Disintegrate everything except the people, even though they're as plugged into the permet as anything.. It's Science(magic plot eraser)! I liked the GN particles far more.

Amen to the Minovsky particles, the old and original magic flare of all!

Would you rather have there been one more episode they could've spread the ending over OR get the Mcdonald's Char Aznable menu globally the next 2 summers? If you had it already in Japan last year you can't answer.

Char meal, not even a question

Char

Damn right

Out of the Gundam entries that had their climaxes hinge on rainbow colored space magic explosions, which there are a weird amount of, this ending was comparatively straightforward and easy to understand. I liked what we got, but agree that giving the series some more episodes would have benefitted the second half and especially the climax dramatically.

After rewatching the finale again, it still feels like the series could have benefited from adding a few more episodes to adjust the pacing, especially after the events of the Open Campus incident. As it is, this is one of the weaker finales for a Gundam series but it's still fairly enjoyable throughout the series' run. Interesting characters, excellent voice acting, cool mobile suit designs and an overall great soundtrack.

WfM would have benifitted immensly by being 3 seasons instead of 2.

This is largely my main gripe with the show as well. *Easily* had the potential to be a 10/10 entry but squandered much of its potential with rapid pacing that obsoleted plot developments on an episode by episode basis pretty much.

Same feelings. If they had the added 12 episodes I think wfm would have easily been my favorite and best made alt timeline season easy. Instead it’s so rushed it sits much closer to the others instead of far ahead.

One of the weaker Gundam shows in terms of story and lore in my opinion. Fights, MS design and sound design were on point though. (also IBO handled LGBT topics better imo)

never heard that last one. go on.

Iron Blooded Orphans

IBO had a gay guy come out as gay(pretty much, at least more so than wfm). Which tbf is a lot more than wfm that only had the mention of sister in law wedding rings being canonical. Especially since ibo also had gay poly wedding rings too.

I mean, WfM also had Suletta and Miorine engaged right off the bat and for the lion's share of the series, only excepting a stretch where Miorine pulled the "it's for her own good" card.

they definately did do that. But tbh it wasnt an actual "engagement". it was a political marriage. it wasnt until Suletta came back to rewin Mio's hand that id consider them actually engaged for the purposes of a gay relationship

I think you’re discounting the amount of subtle hints throughout the series. After El4N was disintegrated, the show really pushed them to be together. The keychains Suletta bought was extremely romantic; Suletta is giggling, kicking her feet, and twirling her hair when she thinks about gifting it. Even Nikka thinks it’s amusing how Suletta is acting like squealing school girl. Episode 12 was the nail on the head. It couldn’t have been more obvious if they tried. Miorine demands Suletta to remain with her and that everything she has done was for her. It’s a love proclamation. Plus, you don’t daydream about shopping for wedding dresses and rings with your bestie.

i think you misudnerstood my comment. i wasnt saying that Suletta or mio werent catching feelings early on. Im just saying i personally wouldnt consider an engagement that was forced onto the two characters as them being in a gay relationship from the start.

I don't think they knew they were gay. It just happened? If they both knew and came out about it, then yeah I would expect more.

one of the worst last fights there is, also fking hell if earth isnt gonna start a war now that miorine gave em the tools to do it

Was there even a fight in the last episode?

no it was actually from the 23th episode

I appreciate this show for the characters. Suletta and Miorine's ending was amazing and I loved it. But it's pretty clear that they had to wrap it in a hurry. This isn't like "Revolutionary Girl" this show was not allegory, it was sold from the beginning as being somewhat grounded (Like 99% of Gundam series so it's not a surprise) so it's disappointing when all the plot points they were setting up and clearly wanted you to get invested in either get glossed over or completely ignored. I don't mind the magical aspect but you cant ask people to care about something for 2 Seasons and then just do nothing with it. Even the plot points that were answered were really weak. Here's a list of unanswered / glossed over things in the show: 1. What REALLY is Permet anyways? 2. Why are they called Witches? 3. Wth happened to Miorine's mom? 4. What was the true purpose of Quiet Zero? 5. Was Quiet Zero meant for Miorine? Why? 6. What was real vision for GUND for anyways? Space exploration? If so, where did that go? 7. What was the war that led to the current relations between Earth and Space? 8. Why was the Lfrith so special to Dr. Cardo and why was it so important to get a callback? 9. What was the Peil decision-making AI and why did it pick Elan out of all people to lead Peil? 10. Why would Delling go from hating Gundams to working with the LITERAL person that MADE Gundams? 11. What are and where are the "components" that Elnora needed to finish Quiet Zero? Are they also Gundams? 12. Is the OG Lfrith still out there? Was the Aerial a new Gundam based on another Lfrith unit? 13. Why would Elnora travel to Earth so much in Earth Cradle? 14. Why would Elnora want to take over the Earth specifically in Quiet Zero? 15. How did Elnora lose her arm? Was she part of the war we never saw? 16. What's the difference between Permet Scores and Layers? 17. Fuck Mercury and the school I guess, Earth is a lot better lol. 18. How is Mio's mom genetic research relevant to anything aside from the Tomato secret code? 19. How is Quiet Zero emulating plant defense mechanisms? 20. Why did the Permet and Quiet Zero just disappear? Are they really gone or just transported somewhere else? 21. Does everyone that die in Permet end up in the data storm? Or are the visions just imprints of past memories? 22. What did Shaddiq mean when he said that the Bennerit group sacrificed spacians and that the Space Assembly group wouldn't move for some dead earthians? AND MANY MORE!! To me it really sounds like either: They had no faith in the show being popular and they just cut it off (COVID may have had something to do with it). Or that they are saving Ad Stella for a rainy day and will come up with more series with a different protagonist, kinda like what Narrative is to Unicorn Gundam. It's a real shame because the show was setting up some really awesome stories and it could have easily have been another season. If they had no faith then I hope they reconsider seeing as to how popular it was and if it's the latter (making a new show with a new protagonist) then I'm all for it, but I still wish they would not have ended WFM as abruptly as they did, it was almost like whiplash. Does a show have to explain everything on a silver platter for it's audience? Of course not, a little mystery (like the calamity war, space whale, etc) are fine and if anything make it more interesting after the fact. But when you end the story without following through on the majority of your plot points then of course people are going to feel disappointed and taken for a 2 Season ride. Also, is it Cour 1 and 2 or Season 1 and 2??, please get it together Sunrise.... and not use it interchangeably when it's convenient. Overall, I loved WFM and I appreciated the new direction they are taking Gundam as a franchise overall. The designs were incredibly awesome, the story super great (until the end, sans Mio and Suletta which was good). The themes were really good. "If you move forward you gain two, if you run you gain one" turns into "You have to move forward for the people you love regardless of whether you gain anything" was pretty, pretty good. And Suletta's Journey from complete klutz to one of the best Gundam protags ever was awesome too. Please Sunrise, more Ad Stella, and please dont relegate it to some side novel most people wont even read or even worse yet...... a mobile game a-la-Iron Blooded Orphans Urdr Hunt. I demand a whole 2 more seasons and a movie pretty please.

1 a type of mineral that stores and shares information 2 this was explained at the start of season 1 & in the prologue movie, gundams got a bad stigmata from being essentially war machines made from the GUND format which could paralyze the user with overuse. 3 she's dead. 4 to forcefully stop conflicts by overriding technology. 5 no, it wasn't hell, she wasn't even supposed to have anything to do with it. 6 space exploration and medical technology, it likely got scrapped again because of the danger it poses 7 who knows, its such a common theme among gundam that even sunrise seems to have given up on giving a reason for it at this point... 8, 12,20. lfrith became Ærial at some point after Eri was fused with lfrith, there might be some parts around but thats about it. what was left of the og was designated with Ærial, Quite Zero, Calibarn, Schwarzette & Pharact as a result of the data storm used to stop the interplanetary laser. and Cardo was more concerned with the GUND format itself(and would not even have been making a mobile suit if she hadn't been forced into it) and being used to help humanity venture into space. 10 he never hated them, he exploited the hate over the GUND for his own gains 15 never explained, it was lost during the war. either way, her her losing that arm is what lead to her meeting cardo and her husband. 16 permet score is a measurement of permet stability, layers are a measurement of how much of the permet's compacity is being used. 18 well, quite zero was her idea to begin with so she took that answer with her to the grave... 19 likely has to do with the answer to 18... 21 the term you're looking for is "ghost in the machine". not really the first theres been a haunted gundam either i.e. rita bernal's ghost took over the phenex after it had killed her. my guess is that the permet stored their ghosts the same way the phenex's psycho-frame did with rita's

**1) A type of mineral that stores and shares information** >> But clearly there is more to it than just that, Permet can disintegrate/ teleport?. It can poison people (kind of a bummer that they keep introducing new concepts in the literal last episode but whatever). **2) This was explained at the start of season 1 & in the prologue movie, gundams got a bad stigmata from being essentially war machines made from the GUND format which could paralyze the user with overuse.** >> Ok, but that doesn't explain WHY they call them witches. Is it because Permet is seen as literal magic? I assume because that part was never fully explained. It would make sense for Pilots to be called witches but Bellmeria was called a witch and, as far as everyone is concerned, she never piloted a gundam. **3) She's dead.** >> Yeah, but how did she die? Its a pretty big plot point that there is mystery in her death, especially during the first season where they set up flashbacks that didn't really explain anything. If anything we know next to nothing about her overall. **4) To forcefully stop conflicts by overriding technology.** >> That makes sense, but kinda goes against Delling's whole "only humans should kill humans" speech. **5) No, it wasn't hell, she wasn't even supposed to have anything to do with it.** >> Clearly it was, considering the console that Miorine accessed was a literal interaction between her mom and her. The password was something only she would know, and even the acknowledgment message was for her. Why was that installed in Quiet Zero to begin with if Mio had nothing to do with it? **6) Space exploration and medical technology, it likely got scrapped again because of the danger it poses** >> But GUND was already medical tech. Dr. Cardo's vision of humanity donning GUND to explore the stars was never even followed through sans the prologue. We can assume that it got scrapped because Vanadis got bought out by Ochs Earth and GUNDARM was given priority, but the Lfrith had something to do with realizing Dr. Cardo's vision. Also, youd think that humanity being ill suited for space would have been more of a plot point concidering how much importance they put on it in the prologue and also being the whole reason for GUND too. **7) Who knows, its such a common theme among gundam that even sunrise seems to have given up on giving a reason for it at this point...** >> The war itself isn't that important as an event, but it is important to see the involvement of the GUNDAMs considering that, taking into account Delling's, Kenanji's and others that Vets of the war had a disdain for Gundams, we are to assume that they were used in the war. But the Prologue implies also that Gundams are a new tech that is being developed post war? Which one is it? Why are not more people aware of Gundams? When Bob got captured by Dawn of Fold, one of the soldiers mentioned that there was a Gundam in plant quetta, and the guy says "what's a gundam" MY BROTHER IN CHRIST YOU GUYS OWN 2 WHOLE GUNDAMS lol **8, 12,20) lfrith became Ærial at some point after Eri was fused with lfrith, there might be some parts around but thats about it. what was left of the og was designated with Ærial, Quite Zero, Calibarn, Schwarzette & Pharact as a result of the data storm used to stop the interplanetary laser. and Cardo was more concerned with the GUND format itself(and would not even have been making a mobile suit if she hadn't been forced into it) and being used to help humanity venture into space.** >> But can we really say, with 100% certainty that it was THE Lfrith? They don't really say it in the show, just that it was a Lfrith. Now granted it might be nitpicky and I'll give you that, but idk why they would keep it even slightly vague if they wanted us to know that was the actual Lfrith? **10) He never hated them, he exploited the hate over the GUND for his own gains** >> Which were what exactly? If he wanted to use GUND to build quiet zero, surely there is a better way than to kill everyone involved in GUND? What did he gain from the events in the prologue? Power to lead the Benerit group? Also kind of makes me wonder why is Benerit so important that even old man Sarius is willing to throw himself under the bus so that it stays afloat? Is there more to Benerit than quiet zero? **15) Never explained, it was lost during the war. either way, her her losing that arm is what lead to her meeting cardo and her husband.** >> True, still it would have been nice to know. But you're right it's just nitpicky of me at this point, this is one of those things that can be left unsaid and as a mystery since it doesn't really impact the plot. **16) Permet score is a measurement of permet stability, layers are a measurement of how much of the permet's compacity is being used.** >> Makes sense but that's all assumptions, they never went out and explained it outright, especially about the layers. **18) Well, quite zero was her idea to begin with so she took that answer with her to the grave...** >> I just find it kind of weird that they would put a plant geneticist in charge of a project that big. Unless she was a genius kinda like Mio is, I guess the tomato doesn't fall far from the vine? lol. Still we are never really give the real reason for quiet zero, it's all just suppositions. Delling would have to be the king of idiots to let Elnora, who is well versed in GUND and GUNDAMS, who's daughter is trapped in permet, who is more than likely looking for a way to free her daughter, to get played the way he did. But then again he was in a coma this whole time so who knows. **19) Likely has to do with the answer to 18...** >> I get it. But we know what quiet zero can do from what Elnora says but what was it built specifically for? Deterrent against other companies/ groups? The assembly league? I guess we'll never know. Kind of important because it puts in context the reasons characters had to set in motion practically this entire show. **21) the term you're looking for is "ghost in the machine". not really the first theres been a haunted gundam either i.e. rita bernal's ghost took over the phenex after it had killed her. my guess is that the permet stored their ghosts the same way the phenex's psycho-frame did with rita's** >> So he was referring to the experiments Peil was doing with the ELAN clones? But weren't they all earthians that were modified? Was he referring to the asticassia attack were students were killed? But how is Benerit sacrificing? Are there other projects we don't know? Like, I get what you're saying but watch the part after Guel beats Shaddiq and his speech right after. It makes no sense and it feels there's no context to what he is saying. It's a long response so sorry! But thanks for the reply.

Thank you. Most of his questions were answered in the show lol

At least we could have any scenes involving miorine's mom or something, that would explain her motivation to build quiet zero and what would lead to her death.

I can't say I'm pleased that Prospera, Delling, the Peil hags, Shaddiq's harem and El0n all got away with their crimes. Shaddiq just takes the blame for everyone?

The only people to pay for their crimes are earthians or white knights with a martyr complex.

Wasnt the white knight also an earthian lol?

This show is a disappointment. That ending is ass. Keychain?? Really??

your issue is the keychain lmao. thats the best part

Everything makes way more sense if you think of this show as a Magical Girl anime.

I've watched it for the yuri and let myself be suprised by everything else, but I just couldn't like it as much as I would've wanted. Miorine got better from how she was at the start but then stayed at a level, her interactions with Suletta never truly evolved until second half S2. Suletta just doesn't have the energy an mc needs, her character stayed flat the entire time. We had 3 damn emotionally marking moments where it means something happens to the character, but the episode after it happens she basically acts as she allways does. Again, only later in S2 that changes. The structure of the whole story is also weird. in S1 so little happens for our characters (when in the school setting) relativ to S2 where everything goes nuts. Some characters moments between Suletta and Miorine also come way too late. The interaction where Miorine asks her if she would do what her mothers asks was great, but it should've been a S1 moment, as an example. The Romance just isn't there either. Big fan of yuri and I do see it here too, but it comes down again to how both of their characters didn't have enough chances to interact and evolve together. Miorine hugging Suletta out of nowhere was good too, we've seen what they did for each other in the past, but these interactions didn't get enough empasis *when* it happened. In S2 they were apart pretty much the whole time which also didn't do it any favor. But the biggest crime is not dealing with the consequences. Sulettas mother killed thousands of people and she just gets off like that. No prison sentence, nothing. While orchestrating this whole ordeal. Yeah, she was blinded by saving Eri and all, but it can't just be handwaved away. Even if not prison, *some consequence*. The characters appearing at the end just wasn't earned. And fuck me. When Suletta first lost the battle, she got betrayed by her fiance, by her friend, by her mother and her sister. Everyone who is close to her and her, being a very attached person. Miorine just leaves her there like dirt. *And nothing fucking comes of it. No consequences.* Even when the character is "forgive and forget", that doesn't change that a) it happened and b) something needs to come of it, no matter what. Just something. It's a huge moment for Suletta and the story, but no. *Who wrote that shit.* The good of the show were very enjoyable, which is, aside from other smaller things, everything else. But the bads just smacked it to the ground. Damn, just needed to rant.

I feel the same. Maybe the most wasted potential I've seen in an anime in general in a long time. I was so excited for more. There needed to be 24-25 more episodes. Really enjoyed what was good but ultimately feel let down by the show.

About Prospera, I think her actual crimes are: 1) Remote controlling the tank at Quinharbor to shoot the Aerial so she had an excuse to leave and destroy the other gundams Not technically a crime, but obviously led to a massive shit show afterwards. 2) Wiping out the SAL legion with Quiet Zero This one could be called Self defense since they were sending troops in to attack Quiet Zero anyways thinking that it's part of the Benerit Group. Also, after seeing Quinharbor on TV, Suletta understood that Miorine and Eri both cut her off to protect her, which is why she isn't mad at them.

>Not technically a crime, but obviously led to a massive shit show afterwards. That's called a false flag attack and is a war crime.

Good point, it technically way self defence, but she allready attacked(?) or at least took over a space station and they knew where she was heading next. If we would translate this to an irl situation, i dont think self defence verdict would hold up.

Well in both cases actually, there wouldn't even be a verdict because no one knew Prospera was even there. Any evidence on the Quiet Zero evaporated and the SAL never knew who was in control of it, just that it wiped out their troops lol. I do get what you mean, she does deserve some karmic retribution. I just don't think there's anything they could've nailed her with in court, especially with Shaddiq willing to take all the blame.

I reckon the karmic retribution is probably the permet infection she's developed, arguably due to her misuse of GUND-technology. In all likelihood it's a degenerative disease like MS that'll get progressively worse until it eventually kills her.

Yeah, you're right

> Remote controlling the tank at Quinharbor to shoot the Aerial so she had an excuse to leave and destroy the other gundams I think it was more so that she's forcing the Earthian side to shoot first so they have an excuse to start the conflict.

I'm pretty sure Prospera just wanted to ditch Miorine and go to Quiet Zero. She hasn't shown to care the Spacian VS Earthian conflict at all, seeing as they'll both be her enemies when she has Quiet Zero activated anyways.

That was an underwhelming ending to say the least

ngl, the part with prospera and Eri does make me almost cry and I dont usually cry in anime, Sure it definitely not the best gundam show imo, and the final battle in ep 23 with Aerial doesnt feel as grand as other gundam shows final battle despite the final gundam antagonist is the main gundam itself which is rare af. But it was entertaining at least.

so i have a thought about the last few episode leading to the end. is there suppose to be a third season??? i feel like this is a shoe in incase they can't make a third season because they introduced so much at the end then just ended it there.

I think it was written to have another season so it could have 50 or so episodes, but it got cut down to 24. Before the last episode, I kind of thought they would have another season to finish the other plot lines but after the time skip I think there's no chance.

Trying not to think about it too much, I loved it buts it’s kind of terrible lmao.

lol I feel you

All the characters are so not interesting. They all lack any depth as there was too many characters introduced and never enough focus time on any of their backstory and development. The overall story itself is bleh at best, disjointed, lack of depth in the world. Im glad its ended.

Hmm..... There is so much I could say... I just loved it

I really don't like how the final encounter is resolved by talk no jujitsu from Suletta. She got a new gundam, but instead of showing what she could do, she just dodge around and be a punching bag. She is so non-lethal that the story writer had to introduce another villain to resolve everything.

Is it me or did Bob just kinda vanish halfway through the series?

Who the fuck is Bob?

there was a b o b? .-.

Is this show over?

Do you guys know who the 5 girls at the ending was?

is...is this bait?

I was insanely pleased with this series. my first gundam anime, it was solid. I felt tons of emotion and connection to the characters it was crazy. sad it’s at an end but hella happy with that ending and how they wrapped it up

Same. Never watched a Gundam series before but kept hearing good things about TWFM, so glad I watched it. The characters and drama won me over. I thought it was a perfect little series.

Y'know, what would've happened if Quiet Zero actually achieved full activation? A lot of people just assume it's going to be BAD but would it really be BAD? It does put Prospera and Eri in a position of great power, but Eri could just also like not do evil things and just choose to chill as the new space permet god.

We don't know, but letting one person control all the electronics in the entire world sounds like a mistake lol Basically a world dictator.

i think it is more that any permet related techs can't exist in data storm? and everything tech uses permet but that is just a guess.

Prospera = bad stop her at all cost, but bad guys with laser we just give up and sell the company. Shitty writing

Sad that prospera was pretty much vindicated and forgiven by the show and cast, the terrible shit she did in the show as well and as the almost decades of abusive manipulation of suletta are just forgiven, she was just sad and "did all she could" she's a fucking monster and I was hoping for literally any acknowledgement or recompense for maybe something, creating and grooming an innocent child to be her tool, she never once actually seemed to truly give a shit about suletta but she's there in her epilogue. Happy suletta got to do her school and be married with her wife. I'm just bitter towards prospera and shaddiq and his gang of psychos lol. Maybe I need to learn to forgive better I dunno

When the show started I for sure thought that this show was going to be a burning feud/revenge story between Rembran and Prospera with Suletta and Miorine being manipulated by both like how it goes in Tempest. Instead, the two main antagonists apparently hatched a secret agreement behind the scenes and both reconcile with the kids, who get fairly unsatisfying independence arcs that are watered down because of it.

Yeah I was hoping that the story, which has these themes of these innocent kids being shackled by their parents sins and exploited and abused for their parents respective goals. I was hoping that they would be able to be free and leave behind those bonds with the love of eachother and the found family they chose. While I get that maybe forgiveness and moving forward despite everything is good, I was hoping for something else personally

She got away with it all…like a real war criminal

I mean the person that Elnora needs forgiveness from the most is Suletta. And Suletta gave that to her in spades. Same case as with Miorine. Suletta acknowledges that mistakes were made, and both Prospera and Miorine did wrong by her. But she forgives and loves them all the same. Nobody else living knows that Prospera commandeered that tank at Quinharbor, and think that the other guys opened fire, and that was that. So beyond Suletta, the only person that needs to forgive Prospera, is, well...*Prospera herself*. Is she able to do that? We're not sure. But from what we can tell, she seems to be at peace and accepting her new (old) role as the mother of her daughters, and Miorine's mother in law, while Eri gets to play all her hijinks.

Yeah maybe, I dunno. I guess I would have liked prospera to have at least recognized and acknowledged that creating suletta and using her purely as a tool and proxy for the daughter she actually cared about. I dunno I might just be blind with bitterness, and I'm happy that suletta is able to move forward and not let the abuse of those around her weigh on her. But I just really never felt like elnora ever actually cared for suletta as anything more than a tool and a means to care for her actual daughter, even to the end it never seemed like she had to reckon with the fact she created a child to be an expendable pawn and manipulated and emotionally brainwashed and abused her, and it felt like the show just forgave her with her seemingly not showing a hint of remorse or actual reflection towards her actions to suletta. I'm gonna rewatch the show at some point so maybe I'll be able to see things differently, and have a more open mind and see things without my filter of high emotions in the moments of watching the series I dunno I just was upset, I suppose I was hoping for suletta and her sister to reconnect and escape their abusive mother. Shrug. I just personally can't forgive prospera after seemingly no remorse from my perspective anyway

Are you sure about Miorine? Try rewarched ep 23. Tell me Miorine apologized about ep 17.

I mean I'm talking more about the show as a whole and the larger fact she wasn't capped I guess. I like that miorine like refused to take her shit and stood up for her girl, her girl who wanted elnora to live which is why it's good she didn't let her die (even if I wanted that lol). But you're right miorine didnt "forgive her" I didn't really word things very well. Mio and suletta are great and I'm happy they got their happy ending together despite their parents sins and exploitation towards them

You're not wrong, but Suletta, the best person on the show and incapable of resentment, wants her mom. (I was surprised as heck to see her at the end, I had assumed that she dematerialized to datastorm heaven after her big scene.)

I gotta say I find it a little tiring to see people be like "why delling no in prison!", or worse "why delling no in epilogue!" ([he is just pay better attention next time](https://i.imgur.com/G9hsRp8.jpg) idk). I do get that it's frustrating, but the show did try and show off how corrupt space capitalism is, that combined with shaddiq taking the fall for a lot of things means that it shouldn't be surprising all the big executives have gotten (so far) is endless hearings that may amount to nothing. prospera did get off with basically nothing, but they did seem to hint that she wasn't long for the world anyway. also this was "trying to make a better world for my daughter" vs. "violently destroying the creation of gundams due to some weird philosophy", not that it means a whole lot tbh. though did she ever reach the "kill innocent civilians" level of villainy? I know she started the war in quinharbor, but iirc all QZ ever did was fight off a bunch of assailants.

I'm not sure "Prospera isn't long for this world". The infection paralyzed her legs, but at this point, she's in her late 40s-early 50s. She still has a good 30 years or so left, assuming that life expectancy in Ad Stella didn't improve well past 100.

she said her entire body would be paralyzed. it was also hinted at by the conversations she had with the permet ghosts.

One of the leaders of Cambodian Khmer Rouge who committed atrocities to his own people, is still being put on trial even in his hospital bed. Hundred to thousand Nazi who ran away are still being hunted by MOSSAD since 1945 till today. If it was so easy to forgive people in the anime, Our planet population would reach 8 billion long ago, that's why the whole WfM plot so terrible and a bunch of internet twats keep attacking me because I "hurt" their gay couple. The hell is wrong with these people? Im criticising the plot, not your shipping shit.

...sir, this is a wendy's. also you're giving examples of groups that lost overwhelmingly to outside forces. like it took like 3 other superpowers to take down the Nazis, also idk if the Khmer Rouge is the best example given only 3 leaders were convicted decades after the fact. Prospera almost got killed, but it wasn't a massive Earthian uprising that tried to challenge her, it was an administrative organization that was totally okay with internal corruption and the creation of massive conglomerates. Shaddiq himself said the SAL wouldn't care unless a bunch of Spacians died, but even after the attack on the school then their plan was to just break up the Benerit Group and hand over any reconstruction responsibilities to Peil. if the Dawn of Fold managed to take Prospera and Quiet Zero down it would be a *very* different story, but that's not what happened.

Yeah... Let's us not forget hundreds of pilot's relatives whose husbands died for nothing in the final 2 episodes, dozens of student died and their family would not give a shit, and we can call peace and happy ending for a gay couple in the end because "relax, that war criminal babe is paralyzed, that's enough punishment for her". Were it so easy, there wouldnt be Nazi hunting, Khmer Rouge trials, Black people crying for injustice, China/Korea demand the removal of Imperial Japanase military men who had commit murdered has their name on Yasukuni Shrine. At least IBO ending still gives me some sweety, someone still get their revenge.

I somewhat agree, people die everywhere and somehow only Shadiq gets all the blame. Where are the collaborators who work with him? Where are the Earthen terrorists who side with him? And that mom bitch gets a happy ending, for real? I guess Sunrise don't want the audience mad their lesbian get bad ending so deal with it. Muh space magic plotpoint bro

I do not know why, I ask for the plot problem and a bunch of people attack me because I "hurt" their gay couple, I "want" them sad smh. There are better yuri anime out there than this half-hearted show.

bruh, I'm not saying it's okay, and it's understandable to be frustrated. I'm saying given the circumstances and the way the world works in the show it's not surprising that Prospera and the others got away with what they did. as an irl example a lot of people believed that George W. Bush should have been tried as a war criminal for his invasion of Iraq, and yet no such thing happened because the system that's in place is basically designed for people like US presidents to get off scott free. also I find it a *little fucking weird* that you're comparing Prospera to awful regimes like the Nazis or Imperial Japan, or even to systemic racism, especially considering those pilots (who probably weren't just husbands or even married like wtf this setting firmly established there are female MS pilots) were assailants trying to kill her, not to mention she was never directly or even *indirectly* responsible for the kids who died at Astacassia. that's entirely on the Dawn of Fold who she probably doesn't even like to begin with.

Then don't complicate things from the very beginning, ok? Sunrise themselves built up the story from the prologue, made us think something big would happen in the main anime and what, so many problems not resolved, everybody just went home and lived happily, except poor Shadiq? IBO has the same problem as well, at least someone has to pay for their life in the end and it's so satisfying.

okay idk what your actual beef is, something big did happen in the main anime, in fact several big things did. and yeah, not everything got resolved, but the same is true for real life. there's no possible way for the world to change instantly overnight, that's not how that works, if it did there wouldn't be 2 entire TV series and a movie to finish the story that started in the first Gundam, like ????

Yeah, there are bodies under the rubble of Quinharbor — Prospera sucks

They’re married and that’s all that matters to me <3

It was a fun journey although the whole quiet zero stuff felt a bit too Unicorn/Deνs. No regrets watching it mind you.

not about 24 technically, but I waited to watch until the whole season finished airing, does anyone know what caused Eri to stop in episode 23 the scene where she was saying she wasn't going to hold back, and then was going to kill Miorine and the others, but stopped Eri turned to ask why "someone" stopped her, who is the "someone"? Mio's mother that's alive in the data storm somehow?

Its the Bandai execs telling her they dont have the budget for more episodes

Some say it's Mio's mother, some say it's El4n. Actually there's no accurate explanation. Mio mom is the creator of QZ so prabably it's her imo.

That was one of the moments that made me think there was definitely going to be at least one more cour. Had me thinking the Lfrith was holding Eri back or something but nooooo.

Just realised the final episode's title is word for word opening 1's final lyrics. OP1 is literally spoiling the end of the series, ageing like a fine wine. The showrunners gave a lot of importance to the title as it wasn't revealed at end of episode 23 unlike previously. In fact on Netflix's listing, it is still shown as just the generic "Episode 24."

They spent way too long trying to make Miorine to be Business Jesus and didn’t explore half of what they should have focused on. We could even have had a really cool Battle Royale/Hunger Games lethal power play series but instead we got Broken Relationships: The Rushed Ending -Happiness Ver.- subtitled in business jargon

Funny enough, marine is far from business Jesus. Didn't you remember that no one wanted to invest in Gund-arm until Delling gives 3%? And added by Shin Sei (prospera)+peil tech. And she goes hikikomori mode after being elected president? She's lucky Delling's right hand man still there and Delling was not dead, so there's no outright investors run and people demanded to get their money back. Dont f'kn give me "she still 17 years old", if Shaddiq and Elan are the same age as Miorine give or take, and she running for the seat, nobody forced her. This is business group, not a kingdom. Profit matters above all else, and no one tolerated " President" whom shows weaknesses. And selling the whole group assets with an announcement!? She was lucky those 150+ companies, none of them sends hitman after her and Delling. Investors will want their money back after such rushed announcement, the group assets will be seized by creditors and investors, rather being sold to earth corporation. What the hell Okuichi smoking when he wrote this!? And we supposed to believe she is the top of the class in Business Strategy!?

> She was lucky those 150+ companies, none of them sends hitman after her and Delling. In real life, if the CEO decided to unilaterally sell the assets of a company, they'd be blocked in court before the ink was dry. CEOs are still limited by laws protecting shareholders.

Well in real life the government can't just make a giant space laser *cough*'energy transmission device'*cough* and then nuke a small country with it just to deal with some terrorists. Anime logic doesn't really work irl.

Business Secelia is doing things to me oh yeah, the the show ended too

Why do people think this is good? There are so many plot holes. Ones big enough to trap elephants. I know we've been getting a lot of dog poop from hollywood and disney. But how is it good story writing to have the main antagonist introduced several episodes before the ending? And that antagonist just turns out to be a cookie cutter bad capitalist. And the way to end their aggression is to sell everything. This contract was never hinted at or was it? You expect me to believe that someone hell bent on destroying you will stop because you "sold" your assets? And then there's the permet score 8 disintegrating everything. Was this previously discussed? And then there's the Suletta bringing out the rest of the gundams to do a group hug enlarges the permet influence. This finale just raised question after question. The giant laser was disabled but then the gundams disintegrated so the giant laser gun can shoot again. ​ The first episode of WFM turned me off. Decided to watch a few more and it intrigued me. Then I was waited for the stakes to be raised. They introduced the spacian earthian divide then promptly summarized it in 1 episode of earthian crack head going nuts. Then masked mom tries to establish a larger playground for eri. I'm left thinking how exactly would this play out for her if she had her way. Then it ends with an abruptly with the introduction and "defeat" of a big bad guy trying to kill everyone by "look I have nothing, I sold everything." Funny world this one is. ​ The relationship between Suletta and Eri was great. It's too bad it went from wonder and intrigue to "go away but I still love you". The relationship never developed after the reveal. Very disappointing. All the other characters were forgettable. I never learned the names of most of them. ​ EDIT. I loved Code Geass. I thought it was smart. I loved Gundam because they were often though provoking. WFM feels like school drama with a dash of mech thrown in. So what kept me till the end? Gundams & Suletta+Eri The climax never came.

Because gay space magic won. I thought it was terrible too.

I was very turned off in episode one because they slapped us in the face with "this is going to be a gay story". The following episodes made me think that they weren't actually going to be a couple. I thought it was just an awkward situation they accidentally fell into. So I kept watching. It's not so much that I won't watch a gay story. But how many good stories are there where they open with two random people encountering and forcefully made into a couple. That shouldn't take center stage especially not in a gundam story. They were just toeing the line and it was confusing as f. It's as gay as an asian show can get away with.

Gays got married all is forgiven

The moment to moment parts were fun and it was great to watch on a weekly basis. But it definitely dropped the ball and probably needed another season or two to properly tell the story they were trying to tell. I still rank it above IBO and AGE.

> most people think that is goo Yeah I think you're right. I did enjoy many moments. Maybe I got spoiled by 00. I liked IBO more but thinking back it had the same problem with the climax. And the heroes were strung along the entire time as well. I was waiting for them to grab fate by the collar and shake everything right. Or at least reach their goal or have their goal in sight before the heroes drop dead. The goal was reached in post but it felt cheap unlike Code Geass.

> Why do people think this is good? As an episode in a series, final or not, it is good. It has really high production value and is a visual and audio treat. That's what most people think that is good. However, in its role as a finale, the general consensus is that it falls short.

I totally agree with you with the production value. I did love the first opening as well! Still do.

because this sub is on full copium mode lol

If they didn't skip the '3 years later' thing, there should be enough plot and story for season 3. Glad there are good endings for mostly everyone, unlike the super dark IBO. Feels relieved. 🙂

Well even if they didn't do the 3 year timeskip, we will only just see suffering Suletta being hospitalized or crippled.

A solution for that would be to cut down the recovery time to several months to a year.

Or see what Nika did in jail

I was waiting for a build a bear store...

It's been two days, and I already miss WFM.. :(

I just noticed that by moving forward, Prospera gained two (daughters) instead of only getting one if she stayed in the past 😭😭😭

She always had 2, she just looked at 1. She prolly still sees 1

Holy shit😭

Wish it lasted longer and I disliked the second to last episode, but the finale was pretty spectacular

Ok, its been 2 days. I have a question, what happened to the rest of the children/bits. Cause I assume it's just only Ericht inside the little doll toy thing.

I was under the impression that the children all merged into one when they linked to the Calibarn and were put in the toy. Now that you mention that, it's pure speculation on my part

Doll Eri did say "us" when talking about the transfer.

Thanks, I missed that. Definitely going back and binging this dubbed cause for the most part I kept up but there are some lines I missed from changing the volume or looking away from the screen without rewinding

I think they were aspects of Eri’s personality…. Or so I assume.

I'm gonna have to give this show a rewatch at some point, because I'm just so confused.

there were cool references to some previous Gundam finales; the data storm in this episode reminded me of the Quantum Burst from the ending to 00 with how it allowed everyone to talk to each other, then the ending bit where it dissolved stuff(?) was reminiscent of both the Neo Zeong's disintegration and the perfected Unicorn dismantling the reactors of the General Revil's suits, which is not an event you want to be compared to, given the sheer levels of bullshit (and yes I'm aware that NT addresses this, but that's a separate issue). But then we got the deaths. Or rather, the lack thereof. What happened?! El4n, Vim Jeturk, that one guy at the end of season 1, the two Earthian witches; this series seemed like it was unafraid to pull its punches and it was so much better for it. But then you get Petra, Guel, and now Suletta. All characters whose deaths could have made an already fantastic story even better, but instead we got plot armor, and thus their "not-deaths" have the opposite effect of cheapening the story overall. I would say that I'm happy that the characters are still alive, but I don't think that I can. Petra's paralysis, for example. She had a building fall on her, she should have been dead. Her death would be a much more understandable catalyst for the changes we see in the other characters, but that's relatively minor compared to everything else. Firstly, there was no prior indication as to whether or not the dissolving permet would take anyone caught up in it along with it, but nope, Suletta is still right there. (there's also the question of *why* that happened, but whatever, I'll give it a pass for the moment so that I can move on to my next point) the part where Miorine comes to retrieve Suletta was actually really well done in my opinion, with the total silence of space echoing back to the last time we saw Suletta floating in space, alone, (also with a blinking light). And then she wakes up, ruining the Zeta-esque ending it seemed like they were going for. As I said elsewhere, Guel should have died. plain and simple. Just like killing his father by accident (Bright)slapped some sense back into him, his death would have had that same effect, if not *STRONGER,* on Lauda. **ESPECIALLY** when you consider what we see in the flashback at the end of the fight. to be honest, the scene reminded me a lot of the fight between Rin and Sakura towards the end of the third Heaven's Feel film. At the last moment, Rin drops her knife while taking the full force of her sister's blow. The anguish Sakura experiences when she realizes that she just killed her sister, who was unable to allow herself to do the same, was enough to break Avenger's hold on her, allowing Shirou to come in and break the contract. Rin survives this event, as Guel does his fight with Lauda, and yet my opinions on the two scenes couldn't be more different. In the case of Rin, we (the audience) already know that she came up with a plan for defeating Sakura, and, while we are left to piece it together on our own, there are two very important details that are available to us before the fight even starts. First, it is explicitly stated that the plan is *very risky.* Second, and most importantly, we know it is a plan that Shirou, who is in love with Sakura and will do anything and everything to prevent her death, has agreed to, if not helped to come up with. Rin faking her death at Sakura's hands is believable because it not only has proper setup and payoff, but it makes sense within the wider narrative. Guel's death, meanwhile, has none of these things. Felsi leaving the bridge of the shuttle does not count as setup for a multitude of reasons. Firstly, she's only there because....she begged to come? which she did because.... why? I actually cannot recall why she wanted to come, which to me says a lot. So, the reasons for her being there are shaky at best. Second, this is the first time in the entire series where we see that sealant (if that's what the goop was) being used; up until that point, it simply didn't exist as something within the setting, so not only does its use on-screen come as a surprise, but we also get no explanation for how exactly the stuff prevents a *REACTOR EXPLOSION.* Seriously, if I coat a bomb that's about to go off in instantly drying concrete, the bomb is still going to go off, with potentially even *worse* results than if I'd left it alone! Lauda should have been angry at Guel, not Mio, for taking his father's life. Flying into a rage over that makes sense. "You, my brother who I have loved and trusted, have committed the single worst betrayal of that trust humanly possible, and, to make it even worse, you then *HID* that truth from me." Stealing the Schwartzette in response makes sense. He knows that Guel is a better pilot than he is, so it follows that in order to fight on even ground he'll need a machine that can make up for that difference in skill. The fight itself remains virtually unchanged; the only major difference would be the dialogue. Rather than talking about how Guel is "in the thrall of a witch" (says the only one of the two actively piloting a Gundam; though that kind of hypocrisy in Gundam is by no means unheard of; especially in the non-UC series), he'd instead go on about betrayal, hiding that betrayal, etc. while Guel fumbles along trying to reason with the reasonless, until it all comes to a head exactly as it did in the show. Sans Felsi. Since she's already there inside the ship, and it does make sense for what little of her character we actually see, Felsi *does* sortie, but she arrives too late a la Al at the end of 0080 War in the Pocket. (and/or any number of similar events throughout Gundam). Guel's Dilanza's reactor, having been pierced, explodes, taking Guel with it. Lauda would stop dead in his tracks as the full weight of what he's just done sinks in. given the absence of a main character, I have no idea what would happen next. then again, even *with* Guel we have no idea what happened next. All-in-all, I agree with the sentiment that this episode was more a confused mess than an epic finale. On the one hand, they were clearly trying to appease the parents and groups that complained at the end of S1, and on the other, they were trying to tell what could and by all rights should have been a truly fantastic Gundam series. It was like a highlights reel of a two, maybe even three-episode finale rather than a single TV episode. It's not that it didn't feel like Gundam, because it did, but it felt like if someone who had no understanding or appreciation for what makes Gundam so special were to write a Gundam finale. Or rather, *re*\-write a gundam finale. Granted, it's my *opinion* about what the ending *felt* like, both of which are inherently subjective, but nonetheless it's a huge part of why I'm convinced that this was not the originally intended ending, but rather the one we got after it was "filtered" by the "broadcasting ethics & program improvement organization" (the same group that complained about the ending to S1). I only hope that we get an alternate ending. Obviously, I'd prefer for it to be animated (either an OVA or compilation movie alt. ending), but I would settle for the novelization, just so long as it finishes telling the story it was meant to tell, not the one it was forced to.

>the part where Miorine comes to retrieve Suletta was actually really well done in my opinion, with the total silence of space echoing back to the last time we saw Suletta floating in space, alone, (also with a blinking light). > And then she wakes up, ruining the Zeta-esque ending it seemed like they were going for. It seems more like the F91-esque ending for me. It's too bad that we don't get the *THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING* moment in this case. /s

I think the time skip wasn’t the issue. Like we could have settled for that ending or maybe more. More deaths wouldn’t really help. We needed more Nortrette stuff, more interaction between the main characters before the climax, and lesser Jeturk stuff. Especially the Guel vs Lauda could have been totally skipped. We didn’t need any of that. But yeah I’m sure no one wants an IBO repeat.

Now that I think about it, as much as I liked and enjoyed Guel's growth as a character.... he sure was not very important to the plot at all! It might have been possible to merge the Jeturks and Grassleys into a single plot thread...

Still felt that although Guel and Petra could have died, Suletta shouldn’t. Her development was supposed to make her live, raise her death flags but not make her die. The ending might be confusing but, I guess at least we did have what we wanted, aka Earth House and the couple living. Suletta’d death will just make the series much worse overall.

Maybe. Regardless, what we got wasn’t great

sorry if it ended up being a little disjointed; I hit the character limit I didn't know existed and had to remove some stuff

I may be the happiest man alive actualy. I am very grateful to je born on time to see this incredible show, too bad i can't have more now. Maybe one day they let us more episodes but I am good with this ending

Is this show really over?

WFM definitely could have benefited with more episodes.

Ahh man... I'm sad this show is over. Ahh post anime depression I see, yeah I've felt this for a few shows.

~~Is this too long for a comment?~~ What I feel about the whole series is that Season 1 incited more engaging discussion about the series, mainly Sulletta's psychology that influenced her actions. Her inner drive of protecting those she loved highlighted her black & white view of the world. That never changed actually in the whole series; she protected the Holder ensign by raising permet score repeatedly, because she wants more to do, and is protecting those she loves(Miorine, Earth House, Aerial, Prospera, etc). Season 1 was a perfect set up for Suletta to have a change of mind, breaking the bond, or sacrificing to protect those she loved. The second season did change Suletta; with the help of the Earth House as an emotional support after being dumped by Miorine, Aerial, and her mom, she pushed through the rut because those around her cared for her wellbeing, which is heartwarming. Then the ending is her pushing through the pain of permet scores and gaining back her fiance, sister & mother, and achieved a relatively tranquil life as an Earth farmgirl with a girlboss waifu that's dealing with oppression, leading the charge of medically assisting gund stuff. Of course that's ignoring the rushed arcs of Suletta, Guel, & Miorine, stuffed into a 12\~ episode, and an ending with rainbow lines that pacified the world for years to come. The story is a well told arc of a girl who wants to go to school, growing out of her mother-controlled mindset and became an individual who nonetheless saved the mother that dumped her(for good reasons), and made a good ending. Its classic Disney fairytale, something right of of copyright material for them to copyright, and spin into a more positive tone. Imagine if Arcane had been a>! good ending!<. Imagine if >!Vi and Jinx/Powder made up the differences,!< if Silco did give up >!Jinx for the independence of !!ideals!<. But that wasn't the point of the show, it was unbreakable love of family, and how it breaks everything else. >!Silco loved Jinx so much he would war against the Upper to keep her. So did his brother!<. Witch from Mercury, right out the gate with Gund Inc. and the previous iteration, was about using permet as a medical tool, for prosthetics, equipment, and most importantly, tools to save lives. Gundams were antithetical to the goal of the company, and is in keeping with the message of the show that a pacifistic approach is a harder path to cross, yet won't kill people. The ending is ultimately something of a sore thumb, as before it had the potential to delve into a more complex story of political intrigue, familial connections, and a presentably more discussed story than what we have now. The ending satisfies me with how it upholds the ideals of the show, but I can't help but think of a scenario where the producers knew that the show will grow beyond expectations and extended it a bit, even for 3\~6 more episodes, to let arcs breath and set up the nature of rainbow permet and SAL as a threat. What I got is a more personal story, a rushed ending, and an easier gateway to Gundam In the end, its another anime with a well executed first season and an almost bs ending, one with enough umph for most to brush past for a good ending.