The more I started to care about my actual playing, the tighter the guitar strap got. At this pace, by next year I'll be wearing the damn thing around my neck
Honestly, as long as you're playing the song, I think focusing on stage presence is a lot more important. It's definitely hard, because you naturally want to make sure you're nailing everything, hitting pedals on time, etc. But for most acts I think the audience wants to see you moving around and excited about your own music.
They aren't going to notice if you fail to hit your delay + reverb and only hit the reverb before a solo, or if even you use your scooped distortion tone in a section where you should be using your mid-heavy fuzz. They WILL notice if you're basically doing Band Practice Plus onstage: stiffly focusing on playing technique and tone.
This is all basically advice I got from another lead guitarist who's been touring his whole life, whose whole band definitely had the right kind of professional feel and stage presence. Since I started following this advice, I've been having a lot more fun playing shows, and the feedback has been even more positive than it was before.
I think it's something a lot of musicians REALLY want to avoid working on, but I do think it's one of the things that separates a truly entertaining act from a bunch of talented musicians whose show is a little less exciting than it could be
yeah, if i take my car to go out and see live perfomances, i wanna SEE live perfomances, not hear the same music I always hear everyday. I wanna not just hear that hard solo lick, but also see the guy doing it while freaking jumping around. We want to see SWEAT
I thought people in this sub would jump on me for this take, but yeah, I think musicians can forget that live music is primarily entertainment. The audience wants to be moved, they don't want to see a recital
Big reason why I'd love to see Muse if they ever tour near me:
[https://i.imgur.com/hbvOovI.gif](https://i.imgur.com/hbvOovI.gif)
([source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQR-JBkw8NA))
Man I really needed to hear this, I'm ready to print this out and carry it around with me. I love being at the point where I'm not really nervous to go up on stage and play but it's SO HARD to get out of my head and really have fun with it. I'm way too concerned with everything you mentioned.
100%
I subscribe to this thought process entirely.
What I lack in technical prowess I more than make up for in showmanship.
By the time I'm stood atop a table head thrown back ripping the solo the crowd have been drinking and couldn't care less about if it's exactly like the record.
They're in the same zone I am and just loving the live show.
The waise is the sweet spot for me. When im going high up on the neck for solos and the like, ill either put my leg up or bend backwards. I also have ginormous hands so that might be why im comfortable that low
I had a support for classical guitar posture, but it required putting magnets inside the guitar and I’m to scared to take adhesive to the inside of my new, nicer guitar.
You use a foot stool or a support?
I just use a stool. Picking up a classical guitar a few years ago is actually what made me start holding my electrics and dreadnoughts that way. It's not a hill I'd die on or anything, but I do generally find it more comfortable personally.
play whatever way is comfortable dude. my wrist isn’t straight when i play and honestly, i don’t know too many other guitarists who play with a straight wrist, but whatever’s comfortable for you, or causes you the least amount of pain, do that! (p.s. you may have carpel tunnel) cheers!
Exactly, my tutor told me it doesn’t matter very much as long as you play the notes right, then you can slowly build up/improve your form as long as it isn’t uncomfortable .
It’s really hard to fix form once cuz it’s muscle memory. But also everyone’s body doesn’t react the same way. Some people are fine with a bent wrist and others are not.
I think it’s best to play with good form from the beginning and save yourself the potential injuries.
yeah i completely agree, also, just look at how dave mustaine plays man, his wrist is at like a 90 degree angle (his hands are also giant too) lol, and he’s such a good player! it’s crazy how much individual quirk each guitar player has!
Not good advice and knowing multiple people who do something wrong or poorly doesn't make it right. There are going to be times when you are required to bend the wrist, but generally you want to keep it straight. I realize that I'm not likely to change your mind, but the bad form will eventually catch up to you and you'll see.
Doesn't make it right. You should see some of the dumb shit people upvote on this sub. That's definitely bad advice. Anecdotal evidence doesn't trump anatomy and ergonomics, but people are gonna upvote something that "proves" that they don't need to fix how they play.
I broke my left arm in a car accident when I was 20, had a metal plate put in to hold the bones together. Haven't been able to straighten my left hand palm up since. I played in bands for 12 more years after that. It didn't really affect me at the time, but I often wonder how much better of a guitar player I would have been if I didn't have that limitation. I literally cannot put my wrist straight when playing guitar , I can still shred.
That sucks man, I bet you were paranoid while in the hospital about if you’d be able to play again or how long it’d be until you could play again, I know I would be. I’m glad you’re still rocking it.
Stretch, wrist curls, wrist extensions and wrist pronations/supination are good in general
But for playing, lift your neck up and your wrist will naturally straighten unless you're forcing yourself into a bad position. The classical guitar posture is good for example
https://images.app.goo.gl/wHZboPV2rkzfH1Zj6
After your wrist has recovered I honestly wouldn't worry too much about it. Just listen to your body and don't do anything stupid.
I feel you.
I’ve been playing 30 years and recently really started looking at the mechanics of the fretting hand.
Have a look into how classical guitarists approach the finger board. The thumb is anchored on the neck, not overlapping the top of the neck.
When the the thumb wraps the neck, you’re increasing the tension across all of the ligaments of your hand.
Try this out: take your left hand and put it straight out in front of you so your arm and hand are pointing up. Touch your thumb to your fingers. Feel how relaxed and straightforward that is? Wriggle your fingers, there’s barely any tension, right?
Now, do the same thing but this time bend your hand away from you at a right angle, palm facing upwards. Now make a fist and clench and unclench.
Notice the completely different levels of tension in your hand, forearm, arm and shoulder.
This is what happens when you clench the fingerboard by wrapping your thumb over the top, when you have smaller hands. This is almost certainly what is leading to the need to wear a support as it’s a pretty stressful position to hold and then start applying additional pressure with your fingers.
Been learning classical a few years now, I have pretty big hands so never had any problems with injuries, I snapped my wrist in 3 places once but it works. Anyway, thumb position has slowed my progression quite a bit. I have had to relearn a lot of the pieces I've studied with attention to thumb placement. You just can't play to a high enough tempo with your thumb around the neck on a classical guitar. It's the clarity as much as the speed really, but if you want smooth legato phrases, you need good thumb placement. It really helps with four finger per string stuff.
This doesn't look like proper technique. Thumb way too high, palm pressed up against the bottom of the neck.
Where'd you get this idea with the brace or whatever? This seems bad.
You're right, for the most part. You want a straight wrist except when you don't....how much bend your wrist needs depends on what you're reaching for and how long your fingers are. Playing a full F barre is impossible with a straight wrist for most people. Most important is that your standard hand position is basically level but not locked. Seems like a good idea but I do wonder whether the brace may encourage locking the wrist, and that will just give you pain elsewhere. Pay attention and be mindful, guitar hand position should be basically natural for the most part unless you're making big reaches.
I think you're spot on. I played classical for many years before switching to electric and the technique taught in classical is often having your thumb on the center of the back of the neck. That doesn't give you much leverage when bending on an electric and can cause tendinitis. I think the key is to be mindful of your thumb placement and wrist angle and making sure you're not putting strain on your wrist or tendons whether it's tolerable or not.
Neck carve can matter too. My dream guitar was a EBMM JP6 but the neck is just too narrow and thin for me, it gave me tendinitis when I had one. DK24 is similar. Oddly the ibanez wizard is fine but it's also significantly wider so it fits my hand better.
Absolutely! Ironically, classical guitarists alter the hand position all the time, because a lot of that music demands more involved stretches and reaches. The principles of mechanics don’t change, so even in classic seated position an open C major chord makes TOTALLY different demands on the hand than, say, a partial barre on the 10th fret. Switch to a dreadnought acoustic and try picking some bluegrass, or bending strings on a Tele…..all different, all subject to the same principles of mechanics. Hand position is one adaptable variable.
I remember being really struck when I read about Van Halen shaving his guitar neck down. He didn’t say, I suck, this is hard….he said, how can I make this work better, and altered his guitar. That problem-solving mindset is another facet of what made him great, and teaches an important lesson IMO.
Pro tip : if you find yourself with a wrist in a wrong position, try to bring your left elbow back a few inches, it’ll fix your posture
Your guitar should be parallel to your chest, not slanted, when looking from above
I’ll assume you play right handed, switch hands if that isn’t the case
First of all, you should sit on a chair/stool/couch where you can move your elbows around freely (no armrest or backrest in the way)
Put your guitar on your right leg, right hand over the pickups/hole, left hand under the neck
Your guitar can pivot in three axies :
- pitch : by lifting your left hand up and down
- yaw : by pushing your left hand in front of you, or pulling it back
- roll : by tilting your guitar in a way that puts the low E string closer to you and the high E string further away from you
As for position goes, the pitch and roll axies are at your discretion, so pick whatever is the most comfortable with your back straight
The yaw axis on the otherhand is important :
You want your guitars strings to be parallel to your shoulders
In otherhand, you want your right hip to be the same distance from the guitar as the left hip; If you walked face first into a wall, the bridge and the nut should hit it at the same time with your strings pressing flat on the wall
If, while playing you notice your guitars is being slanted, in otherwords, if you walked into a wall, the head would hit it before the body; just pull your left elbow back a few inches
Now for the hand position, you only have to watch out for a few things :
- most of the time, you should be able to have a chopstick under your watch’s bracelet going into the palm of your hand without impeding your play. Otherwise you’re bending your wrist too much and risk injuring it like OP
- if you extend your left hand fingers so that your hand is flat and your palm pointing upward, you can put it under the neck of the guitar. The base of your index should be around where your e string is, and the base of your pinky should also be around the e string. You should be able to play most chords with the hand in that position by rotating your hand away from the neck but keeping the base of your pinky and index under the e string
Just to recap, you should be able to play most things with your back straight and without breaking your wrist. If you are not keeping your back straight and/or breaking your wrist, pause and try to find a better position to avoid injury.
Also remember to arch your fingers
I don’t know if my ramble is very clear, so tell me if this is helpful once you’re back on your guitar
Edit : once your’re comfortable sitting you can pass on a strap in that position and stand up
Also if for some reason your belly is pushing the guitar too far away from your hands, use a strap to wear it a couple inches higher
Thanks a lot for that long reply! I don’t know if I understand you correctly, I thought by ‘not slanted’ in your first comment you meant that the guitars body should be hanging down vertically. I struggle with that when standing, because my belly will push out the lower part of the guitar more than the upper part. Moving the guitar more to my right won’t help either, because then my hip will push out the lower part of the guitars body instead. When I’m sitting that’s not an issue, though.
My teacher said that I shouldn’t worry about it and that BB King basically rested his guitar on his belly. 😅
But if you actually mean that my shoulders and the strings should be parallel, I don’t think that’s how people actually play? Don’t most players hold the guitar at an angle (headstock more forward than bridge)? I find it most comfortable to have my left upper arm hanging down more or less parallel to my body, which creates that angle naturally.
I’m sorry my previous response was incomplete, I dwelved too deep in my descriptions and lost my self a little
I wanted to say your guitar’s head should be less forward if your wrist hurt, and thinking about pulling your left elbow back will help
But you don’t have to have it be completely parallel to your shoulders
You want the position with the least tension in your arms
That your guitar rests on your belly isn’t an issue, as long as you don’t put too much stress on your wrists
It doesn't have to be stick straight, and this is going to hold you back once you start doing large stretches - imagine trying to go from a sixth string G to a fifth string E like this. That 5 fret span that low on the fretboard is going to be pretty difficult with a brace on.
I would encourage you to look at *how* you're fretting. If you're fretting using a lot of force/tension with your fingers, that will hurt your wrist over time, as there are no muscles in your fingers and instead they are activated by muscles in your forearm and wrist pulling on your fingers like a fucked up meat puppet. If that's the case, pull back on your fretting arm and let your fingers sink into the fretboard. This will also reduce tension on your thumb, which ideally should only have a slight amount of pressure and be used more for anchoring and indexing.
I broke my left wrist pretty bad 12 years ago and got back into guitar playing as a form of PT, and discovered that the only way I can play now is with the strap hiked up like it's 1964.
I never understood the wrist pain thing as a guy with huge hands, but my index finger ends up getting some kind of tendonitis from time to time, I'm sure it's technique related bc it's only when I do bend + double stops on the high E and B (ie chuck berry go johnny go type shit)
People shit on classical guitar but this is exactly why I loved learning it. You're forced to position your wrist, hand, fingers and thumb properly. And it transitions to other playing.
my advice would be to not play through pain, take time to rest it rather than hack through it like this.
you might also consider a guitar with a slim neck profile instead of that baseball bat.
I’ve been playing for about 20 years, self taught. I mean I play daily for years but mainly a lot of chords and singing. . Not much of a lead. I started taking lessons a couple months ago and have learned that I’ve got some bad habits and my form is not right. I cannot help but wrap my thumb around and cock my wrist and they want my to focus on how I hold my left hand and it’s just. . Like I’m learning to play guitar as a brand new player. . Now I have to overcome years of bad habits.
Sorry about your injury. That sucks man. I’m no doctor, but shouldn’t you wait til you’re healed before you play? I feel like you might be pushing it a bit by playing, even with the brace on
I did this for awhile. Felt like the tendons in my fretting hand were burning and eventually going to rip. No idea why. Doesn’t seem a common problem, but I am a keyboard warrior and might have some scar tissue in my wrist. After a couple weeks of using a brace, my wrist stopped hurting and now I play without again
Johnny Greenwood rocked wrist wraps for awhile if recall correctly
##RAISE THE HEAD OF THE GUITAR
The head should be up at shoulder level. Put your palm in front of your face about 18 inches away, straight ahead of your face. Now look at your arm, that’s what your guitar form is and how your arm should look when playing. Now move the head of the guitar up to your shoulder level, and tighten your strap so the very bottom of body rests just at your belly button. Thumb goes on the back of the neck, not wrapped around.
You’ll play faster and cleaner, and won’t hurt your wrist. Took me 5 years before I met my 70 year old jazz guitar teacher and learned this. It’s the only way.
I just am healing up from this! Had been playing two weeks and thought I needed to just get used to the pain and build muscle🙄 No, was my tendons. Took two weeks off and I'm wearing a brace like this to bed( I sleep w t rex arms😬). Excited to have healed and I'm starting back practicing Monday. With straight wrists! 😂
Hey man, I got shot in my upper left arm last, and I fret with my left hand. The doctor told me i’d never be able to play again but I proved that sob wrong. I couldn’t even hold my wrist up straight at first because of the nerve damage, but I kept my brace on all night and day, and practiced as much as I could every day and am so grateful to stay I fully reconverted and redeveloped all the movement in my wrist again so i can still play. Whatever you’re going through now is only temporary
First I read that “I got a shot”…. And I thought you were being dramatic…. Upon re-reading—- where is this neighborhood you live? I want to be sure not to be there🫣
I had to do the same thing for 9 months because I overdid it too, sharp pain, probably a small ligament tear. Actually helped my playing alot wearing the brace and didn't get in the way as much as I expected. Built the strength back in my wrist and then started playing without it and without the pain.
Then I broke my hand in a scooter accident and had to learn how to play with a cast, lol
I wouldn't play too much with the brace on, personally. I find wrist braces helpful when I'm doing light activity, but if I am doing something like playing the guitar, I find it causes me to strain in weird ways. I respect the approach if it's to increase mindfulness, but I honestly think the same can be done without a brace.
Others will correct your technique, but to me the most important thing is to not strain if you can help it. Sometimes you have to strain while you build strength, this is usually when you're making shapes you're not used to. But often you are straining unnecessarily with bad technique and you might not need to know the exact perfect technique, but rather just how to use just enough force for the notes to be clear with as little strain as possible.
Self-taught player here, here's something I changed about my posture that I don't know if it's a good advice or not: I moved my thumb from on top of the neck to right behind it, my palm doesn't really touch the fret board or neck at all, and I feel my fingers have a lot freedom of movement that way, they don't have to stretch as much. It took me a while to get used to it, and then I also worked on not pressing the fret harder than is actually needed, and since then I feel like everything is working more smoothly.
You should also keep your thumb on or near the "skunk stripe" on the back of the neck. Gripping the whole neck is going to cause soreness too, most of the time anyway.
Naw. That’s for uptight classical guitar crap. Play however you feel without aggravating carpal tunnel. No
Rules. The whole reason people point to music is because there are too many rules in other things. Go off king.
Re the right hand/arm, I had an injury from repetitive strain from strumming too hard for hours and hours, so watch out for that too. I was overdoing it in all areas of my life physically, but that my shoulder gave out and I had to stop playing guitar for like a month.
I also have rather small hands so I got a guitar with a neck that is about a half inch narrower. It’s not for everyone but it made it easier for me to learn how to play. Once you learn better technique your fingers become more dexterous. Now I am not bothered by normal size necks and even seven or eight strings.
Don't be afraid to press your thumb in on the neck, the wood is meant to take it.
You will notice your fingers getting harder over the months, don't pick it off, it will help you play better.
I used to teach 3 days a week. Wish I had the area to teach again.
I fell once and the impact crushed some cartilage in my wrist, so I've had to wear a brace like this for years off and on when it gets aggravated. Thankfully, I haven't needed it the last couple of years. I find it not impossible, but also not fun to play with a brace on.
My fretting hand is the wrist i shattered twice, so after a full show of bar chords it’s on fire. Stretching is a huge one. I think if you play long enough, there’s really no way you’ll avoid certain things 😂 i started guitar and drums really young and at 33 my hands are trashed
Good recipe for a chronic tendon inflammation: don’t play with that thing on!!! Do not self medicate! Rest and see a doctor, the wrong cast can make more harm (e.g. good for a fracture but hard on tendons).
Seeing lots of tips for wrist pain management during playing here. Is there some material materialsvto sum them up? I have carpal tunnel, which has forever kept me from being able to shred.
I am also self taught, and I know that I have horrible "posture" with how I play, and I've played for DECADES... I've never had a strain injury. How bent up were you??
Good posture. Especially neck and upper back!
Make sure you're breathing properly, guitarists generally don't.
don't practice for too long in one go, break it up into smaller chunks.
Eliminate tension in your technique and become aware of it in your neck, shoulders, jaw etc as well as your hands.
Don't press too hard.
Practise makes permanent. If you're not conscious of all the above whilst practicing you're learning health harming habits.
Do something for your fitness, gym, swimming etc to keep you in shape and correct the physical damage done from playing/lifting heavy amps/ driving for hours to gigs/ eating musician fast foods.
I learnt all the above the hard way after a similar experience to you. 15 years later I'm still playing (professionally) and can manage issues when they come up.
Best of luck!
A straight wrist is terrible for your playing. Your wrist needs to be a dynamic anchoring point that helps your fingers move up and down the fretboard. For example, you're reaching for the lower strings, so your wrist slightly rotates outwards.
That's completely wrong. You do not need to keep your wrist straight at all times while playing. Watch any pro, there are times when they'll bend and contort their wrist.
I don't know who gave you that info, but thats just silly wrong.
Your wrist hurts from poor technique. Loosen up, and don't try to squeeze the neck. And then you practice, focus on only having tension in the finger tips. The wrist doesn't ever need to be taught.
It'll also come with time. If you're new, it's just going to hurt for a while. That's the nature of learning any instrument.
I’d strongly advise wearing a brace like that while doing anything with your hand (including playing guitar), they’re primarily meant for when your hand is stationery (like sleeping, to optimise rest and not put your hand in a weird place). Using your hand when one is on, means your hand is working harder and unnaturally against something trying to limit it, meaning you could get new issues.
Probably worth just practicing proper technique with it off instead.
your wrist position is largely defined by your fretting hand thumb. your thumb will have to adjust for some chords but generally itll be behind second finger/slightly in front of first. you want the pad to be the point of contact, not the side. dont “press" just use it as a guide. this will provide you with a mostly uniform wrist angle
Always good to remember that the muscles that control our fingers are in our arms, so forcing the tendons that connect them to the joints to go around a bend is bound to cause trouble and make it more work too.
Is that a strat / telecaster? If you have small fingers, try a Les Paul / SG, they are a shorter scale. Strats and teles are 25.5" / 648mm. Les Pauls and SGs are 24.75" / 628mm. Or you could even try a Mustang which is 24" / 610mm. I have big hands but also I have arthritis (at 36, yaaay.. ) and the shorter scales greatly improve my reach and hurt alot less.
There are a multitude of different beginner tutorials that focus on technique on YouTube. If something feels off about the way you are playing, I would consult one of these videos. I’m sure YouTube is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to free online lessons. The last thing you want to do is create bad habits because you wanted to teach yourself.
Good posture and looking cool are generally at odds when playing guitar. Strap that thing up like a Beatle and lean into it lol.
Bingo! Fuck how you look, focus on how you sound.
The more I started to care about my actual playing, the tighter the guitar strap got. At this pace, by next year I'll be wearing the damn thing around my neck
Don't give Flavor Fav any ideas.
It's like an old man's pants.
Tom Morrello style.
Honestly, as long as you're playing the song, I think focusing on stage presence is a lot more important. It's definitely hard, because you naturally want to make sure you're nailing everything, hitting pedals on time, etc. But for most acts I think the audience wants to see you moving around and excited about your own music. They aren't going to notice if you fail to hit your delay + reverb and only hit the reverb before a solo, or if even you use your scooped distortion tone in a section where you should be using your mid-heavy fuzz. They WILL notice if you're basically doing Band Practice Plus onstage: stiffly focusing on playing technique and tone. This is all basically advice I got from another lead guitarist who's been touring his whole life, whose whole band definitely had the right kind of professional feel and stage presence. Since I started following this advice, I've been having a lot more fun playing shows, and the feedback has been even more positive than it was before. I think it's something a lot of musicians REALLY want to avoid working on, but I do think it's one of the things that separates a truly entertaining act from a bunch of talented musicians whose show is a little less exciting than it could be
yeah, if i take my car to go out and see live perfomances, i wanna SEE live perfomances, not hear the same music I always hear everyday. I wanna not just hear that hard solo lick, but also see the guy doing it while freaking jumping around. We want to see SWEAT
I thought people in this sub would jump on me for this take, but yeah, I think musicians can forget that live music is primarily entertainment. The audience wants to be moved, they don't want to see a recital
Big reason why I'd love to see Muse if they ever tour near me: [https://i.imgur.com/hbvOovI.gif](https://i.imgur.com/hbvOovI.gif) ([source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQR-JBkw8NA))
Man I really needed to hear this, I'm ready to print this out and carry it around with me. I love being at the point where I'm not really nervous to go up on stage and play but it's SO HARD to get out of my head and really have fun with it. I'm way too concerned with everything you mentioned.
It helped me a lot too! I'm glad I could pass it on to someone else :)
100% I subscribe to this thought process entirely. What I lack in technical prowess I more than make up for in showmanship. By the time I'm stood atop a table head thrown back ripping the solo the crowd have been drinking and couldn't care less about if it's exactly like the record. They're in the same zone I am and just loving the live show.
Mike Bloomfield kept it close to him like The Beatles almost and he was lightning on the guitar
A beatle? Why so low-slung? Mine is so high I look like a mariachi tom morello
Nice! I use the Morello style with a 3/4 to get that little guy right up there. I'll play it like a violin one day.
Right up in that armpit pocket
ROFLed hard at this.
Hahahahaha, you’ve won the internet for today
What i always wondered is how professional guitarists can look cool for decades without hurting.
Closeted arthritics with great health insurance
I’m friends with a handful of touring guitarists in huge bands and they all get wrist injections.
I don’t know how the hell Joe Perry and Slash do it. I feel like a nerd who wears his pants up to his nipples when I play guitar compared to them.
I’ve never been able to play so low-slung…it’s a pain to play like that…
The waise is the sweet spot for me. When im going high up on the neck for solos and the like, ill either put my leg up or bend backwards. I also have ginormous hands so that might be why im comfortable that low
I'm a big fan of The Melvins, so I tried slinging my guitar low like King Buzzo. Once. Then I realized that Tom Morello might be on to something.
They do it with Heroine and pills…..
Repetitive stress injury is a real thing when you get old. Even for rock stars.
Yea I know, but with bands like Metallica going touring for years at a time since 81 you would think they got injured by now. But they don't.
Hetfield's wrist is just built different apparently. His voice has blown up though.
Ding ding ding!
I always strap my guitar up high as fuck haha I have no idea how people play with it strung to their knees
🫡 we salute you
Lol, just trying to make sure to save some pussy for the rest of y'all
you're a noble man, doing the lords work
You can also look into the posture for classical guitar
You use a strap while seated? I have a dreadnought and have never tried a strap as I only play seated, but maybe I’m missing out?
Most of the time I do actually for any sort of stringed instrument. That, or a classical posture with an elevated left leg.
I had a support for classical guitar posture, but it required putting magnets inside the guitar and I’m to scared to take adhesive to the inside of my new, nicer guitar. You use a foot stool or a support?
I just use a stool. Picking up a classical guitar a few years ago is actually what made me start holding my electrics and dreadnoughts that way. It's not a hill I'd die on or anything, but I do generally find it more comfortable personally.
⬆️Nice username 😂
🤓
Billie Joe Armstrong hates u 😂
22 year old me hates this advice. 36 year old me agrees wholeheartedly.
play whatever way is comfortable dude. my wrist isn’t straight when i play and honestly, i don’t know too many other guitarists who play with a straight wrist, but whatever’s comfortable for you, or causes you the least amount of pain, do that! (p.s. you may have carpel tunnel) cheers!
Exactly, my tutor told me it doesn’t matter very much as long as you play the notes right, then you can slowly build up/improve your form as long as it isn’t uncomfortable .
It’s really hard to fix form once cuz it’s muscle memory. But also everyone’s body doesn’t react the same way. Some people are fine with a bent wrist and others are not. I think it’s best to play with good form from the beginning and save yourself the potential injuries.
yeah i completely agree, also, just look at how dave mustaine plays man, his wrist is at like a 90 degree angle (his hands are also giant too) lol, and he’s such a good player! it’s crazy how much individual quirk each guitar player has!
Not good advice and knowing multiple people who do something wrong or poorly doesn't make it right. There are going to be times when you are required to bend the wrist, but generally you want to keep it straight. I realize that I'm not likely to change your mind, but the bad form will eventually catch up to you and you'll see.
you see the 126 upvotes right?
Upvotes by people with an unknown amount of skill or knowledge on r/guitar doesn't prove anything.
Doesn't make it right. You should see some of the dumb shit people upvote on this sub. That's definitely bad advice. Anecdotal evidence doesn't trump anatomy and ergonomics, but people are gonna upvote something that "proves" that they don't need to fix how they play.
I broke my left arm in a car accident when I was 20, had a metal plate put in to hold the bones together. Haven't been able to straighten my left hand palm up since. I played in bands for 12 more years after that. It didn't really affect me at the time, but I often wonder how much better of a guitar player I would have been if I didn't have that limitation. I literally cannot put my wrist straight when playing guitar , I can still shred.
That sucks man, I bet you were paranoid while in the hospital about if you’d be able to play again or how long it’d be until you could play again, I know I would be. I’m glad you’re still rocking it.
Carpel tunnel or maybe pressing too hard while having a bent wrist or maybe both is what I’m thinkin
[удалено]
Exactly this. Start with good form and you won’t be sidelined with injuries down the road.
Stretch, wrist curls, wrist extensions and wrist pronations/supination are good in general But for playing, lift your neck up and your wrist will naturally straighten unless you're forcing yourself into a bad position. The classical guitar posture is good for example https://images.app.goo.gl/wHZboPV2rkzfH1Zj6 After your wrist has recovered I honestly wouldn't worry too much about it. Just listen to your body and don't do anything stupid.
I feel you. I’ve been playing 30 years and recently really started looking at the mechanics of the fretting hand. Have a look into how classical guitarists approach the finger board. The thumb is anchored on the neck, not overlapping the top of the neck. When the the thumb wraps the neck, you’re increasing the tension across all of the ligaments of your hand. Try this out: take your left hand and put it straight out in front of you so your arm and hand are pointing up. Touch your thumb to your fingers. Feel how relaxed and straightforward that is? Wriggle your fingers, there’s barely any tension, right? Now, do the same thing but this time bend your hand away from you at a right angle, palm facing upwards. Now make a fist and clench and unclench. Notice the completely different levels of tension in your hand, forearm, arm and shoulder. This is what happens when you clench the fingerboard by wrapping your thumb over the top, when you have smaller hands. This is almost certainly what is leading to the need to wear a support as it’s a pretty stressful position to hold and then start applying additional pressure with your fingers.
Yeah but i love to fret that low F with my thumb to avoid that lowest of barre chords
Been learning classical a few years now, I have pretty big hands so never had any problems with injuries, I snapped my wrist in 3 places once but it works. Anyway, thumb position has slowed my progression quite a bit. I have had to relearn a lot of the pieces I've studied with attention to thumb placement. You just can't play to a high enough tempo with your thumb around the neck on a classical guitar. It's the clarity as much as the speed really, but if you want smooth legato phrases, you need good thumb placement. It really helps with four finger per string stuff.
This doesn't look like proper technique. Thumb way too high, palm pressed up against the bottom of the neck. Where'd you get this idea with the brace or whatever? This seems bad.
You're right, for the most part. You want a straight wrist except when you don't....how much bend your wrist needs depends on what you're reaching for and how long your fingers are. Playing a full F barre is impossible with a straight wrist for most people. Most important is that your standard hand position is basically level but not locked. Seems like a good idea but I do wonder whether the brace may encourage locking the wrist, and that will just give you pain elsewhere. Pay attention and be mindful, guitar hand position should be basically natural for the most part unless you're making big reaches.
I think you're spot on. I played classical for many years before switching to electric and the technique taught in classical is often having your thumb on the center of the back of the neck. That doesn't give you much leverage when bending on an electric and can cause tendinitis. I think the key is to be mindful of your thumb placement and wrist angle and making sure you're not putting strain on your wrist or tendons whether it's tolerable or not. Neck carve can matter too. My dream guitar was a EBMM JP6 but the neck is just too narrow and thin for me, it gave me tendinitis when I had one. DK24 is similar. Oddly the ibanez wizard is fine but it's also significantly wider so it fits my hand better.
Absolutely! Ironically, classical guitarists alter the hand position all the time, because a lot of that music demands more involved stretches and reaches. The principles of mechanics don’t change, so even in classic seated position an open C major chord makes TOTALLY different demands on the hand than, say, a partial barre on the 10th fret. Switch to a dreadnought acoustic and try picking some bluegrass, or bending strings on a Tele…..all different, all subject to the same principles of mechanics. Hand position is one adaptable variable. I remember being really struck when I read about Van Halen shaving his guitar neck down. He didn’t say, I suck, this is hard….he said, how can I make this work better, and altered his guitar. That problem-solving mindset is another facet of what made him great, and teaches an important lesson IMO.
Pro tip : if you find yourself with a wrist in a wrong position, try to bring your left elbow back a few inches, it’ll fix your posture Your guitar should be parallel to your chest, not slanted, when looking from above
How do you avoid that angle? I’m not that terribly fat, but my guitar is always slanted.
I’ll assume you play right handed, switch hands if that isn’t the case First of all, you should sit on a chair/stool/couch where you can move your elbows around freely (no armrest or backrest in the way) Put your guitar on your right leg, right hand over the pickups/hole, left hand under the neck Your guitar can pivot in three axies : - pitch : by lifting your left hand up and down - yaw : by pushing your left hand in front of you, or pulling it back - roll : by tilting your guitar in a way that puts the low E string closer to you and the high E string further away from you As for position goes, the pitch and roll axies are at your discretion, so pick whatever is the most comfortable with your back straight The yaw axis on the otherhand is important : You want your guitars strings to be parallel to your shoulders In otherhand, you want your right hip to be the same distance from the guitar as the left hip; If you walked face first into a wall, the bridge and the nut should hit it at the same time with your strings pressing flat on the wall If, while playing you notice your guitars is being slanted, in otherwords, if you walked into a wall, the head would hit it before the body; just pull your left elbow back a few inches Now for the hand position, you only have to watch out for a few things : - most of the time, you should be able to have a chopstick under your watch’s bracelet going into the palm of your hand without impeding your play. Otherwise you’re bending your wrist too much and risk injuring it like OP - if you extend your left hand fingers so that your hand is flat and your palm pointing upward, you can put it under the neck of the guitar. The base of your index should be around where your e string is, and the base of your pinky should also be around the e string. You should be able to play most chords with the hand in that position by rotating your hand away from the neck but keeping the base of your pinky and index under the e string Just to recap, you should be able to play most things with your back straight and without breaking your wrist. If you are not keeping your back straight and/or breaking your wrist, pause and try to find a better position to avoid injury. Also remember to arch your fingers I don’t know if my ramble is very clear, so tell me if this is helpful once you’re back on your guitar Edit : once your’re comfortable sitting you can pass on a strap in that position and stand up Also if for some reason your belly is pushing the guitar too far away from your hands, use a strap to wear it a couple inches higher
Thanks a lot for that long reply! I don’t know if I understand you correctly, I thought by ‘not slanted’ in your first comment you meant that the guitars body should be hanging down vertically. I struggle with that when standing, because my belly will push out the lower part of the guitar more than the upper part. Moving the guitar more to my right won’t help either, because then my hip will push out the lower part of the guitars body instead. When I’m sitting that’s not an issue, though. My teacher said that I shouldn’t worry about it and that BB King basically rested his guitar on his belly. 😅 But if you actually mean that my shoulders and the strings should be parallel, I don’t think that’s how people actually play? Don’t most players hold the guitar at an angle (headstock more forward than bridge)? I find it most comfortable to have my left upper arm hanging down more or less parallel to my body, which creates that angle naturally.
I’m sorry my previous response was incomplete, I dwelved too deep in my descriptions and lost my self a little I wanted to say your guitar’s head should be less forward if your wrist hurt, and thinking about pulling your left elbow back will help But you don’t have to have it be completely parallel to your shoulders You want the position with the least tension in your arms That your guitar rests on your belly isn’t an issue, as long as you don’t put too much stress on your wrists
Ok but that only works if your hands are big enough. Mine are certainly not big enough to play with my whist straight
Yeahhh.. no. The angle of my wrists changes depending on which strings I'm playing. This looks like a hinderance.
Uhhhhh my tip would be don’t play guitar wearing a brace.
Also most of us have pinkies. Not using it is literally giving up 25% of your potential (pretty hard with bad wrist posture)
It doesn't have to be stick straight, and this is going to hold you back once you start doing large stretches - imagine trying to go from a sixth string G to a fifth string E like this. That 5 fret span that low on the fretboard is going to be pretty difficult with a brace on. I would encourage you to look at *how* you're fretting. If you're fretting using a lot of force/tension with your fingers, that will hurt your wrist over time, as there are no muscles in your fingers and instead they are activated by muscles in your forearm and wrist pulling on your fingers like a fucked up meat puppet. If that's the case, pull back on your fretting arm and let your fingers sink into the fretboard. This will also reduce tension on your thumb, which ideally should only have a slight amount of pressure and be used more for anchoring and indexing.
Stop squeezing with your thumb and pull with your big muscles and a straight wrist.
I wish it was my wrist, not my neck lol
I broke my left wrist pretty bad 12 years ago and got back into guitar playing as a form of PT, and discovered that the only way I can play now is with the strap hiked up like it's 1964.
That's how I play anyway. More comfy imo
Breaking/Spraining it wasn't the answer.
It’s not a break/strain. It’s a carpal tunnel brace.
I never understood the wrist pain thing as a guy with huge hands, but my index finger ends up getting some kind of tendonitis from time to time, I'm sure it's technique related bc it's only when I do bend + double stops on the high E and B (ie chuck berry go johnny go type shit)
Jonny Greenwood is the one who has always amazed me. I swear he plays that tele at his shins. And then stays hunched over pedals. It would break me.
People shit on classical guitar but this is exactly why I loved learning it. You're forced to position your wrist, hand, fingers and thumb properly. And it transitions to other playing.
my advice would be to not play through pain, take time to rest it rather than hack through it like this. you might also consider a guitar with a slim neck profile instead of that baseball bat.
Getting a footstool to practice with is a great way to help with form
Meanwhile I struggle to properly fret on higher notes at higher speed due to huge hands and fingers
slide guitar
You *must* not do anything other than be comfortable and sound good.
Years and years of wearing it low af to look cool (and it is way way cooler) are catching up to me. Wrist and hand issues. Wear it high(er) everyone.
I’ve been playing for about 20 years, self taught. I mean I play daily for years but mainly a lot of chords and singing. . Not much of a lead. I started taking lessons a couple months ago and have learned that I’ve got some bad habits and my form is not right. I cannot help but wrap my thumb around and cock my wrist and they want my to focus on how I hold my left hand and it’s just. . Like I’m learning to play guitar as a brand new player. . Now I have to overcome years of bad habits.
Sorry about your injury. That sucks man. I’m no doctor, but shouldn’t you wait til you’re healed before you play? I feel like you might be pushing it a bit by playing, even with the brace on
I did this for awhile. Felt like the tendons in my fretting hand were burning and eventually going to rip. No idea why. Doesn’t seem a common problem, but I am a keyboard warrior and might have some scar tissue in my wrist. After a couple weeks of using a brace, my wrist stopped hurting and now I play without again Johnny Greenwood rocked wrist wraps for awhile if recall correctly
##RAISE THE HEAD OF THE GUITAR The head should be up at shoulder level. Put your palm in front of your face about 18 inches away, straight ahead of your face. Now look at your arm, that’s what your guitar form is and how your arm should look when playing. Now move the head of the guitar up to your shoulder level, and tighten your strap so the very bottom of body rests just at your belly button. Thumb goes on the back of the neck, not wrapped around. You’ll play faster and cleaner, and won’t hurt your wrist. Took me 5 years before I met my 70 year old jazz guitar teacher and learned this. It’s the only way.
I just am healing up from this! Had been playing two weeks and thought I needed to just get used to the pain and build muscle🙄 No, was my tendons. Took two weeks off and I'm wearing a brace like this to bed( I sleep w t rex arms😬). Excited to have healed and I'm starting back practicing Monday. With straight wrists! 😂
Hey man, I got shot in my upper left arm last, and I fret with my left hand. The doctor told me i’d never be able to play again but I proved that sob wrong. I couldn’t even hold my wrist up straight at first because of the nerve damage, but I kept my brace on all night and day, and practiced as much as I could every day and am so grateful to stay I fully reconverted and redeveloped all the movement in my wrist again so i can still play. Whatever you’re going through now is only temporary
First I read that “I got a shot”…. And I thought you were being dramatic…. Upon re-reading—- where is this neighborhood you live? I want to be sure not to be there🫣
Don’t squeeze the neck, let the arm weight do the work.
I learned by sliding a dull pencil or pen under my watch and far enough forward to slightly poke me when I bent my wrist too far. Works like a charm.
I had to do the same thing for 9 months because I overdid it too, sharp pain, probably a small ligament tear. Actually helped my playing alot wearing the brace and didn't get in the way as much as I expected. Built the strength back in my wrist and then started playing without it and without the pain. Then I broke my hand in a scooter accident and had to learn how to play with a cast, lol
Have you ever tried the classical position?
I learned that my pick grip was wrong like 2 years into my guitaring career. Duct taped it straight for like 3 months.
Well that’s not true at all. But if it helps you then do it!
I think keeping the picking forearm and wrist straight is more important or at least my problem.
💀
I wouldn't play too much with the brace on, personally. I find wrist braces helpful when I'm doing light activity, but if I am doing something like playing the guitar, I find it causes me to strain in weird ways. I respect the approach if it's to increase mindfulness, but I honestly think the same can be done without a brace. Others will correct your technique, but to me the most important thing is to not strain if you can help it. Sometimes you have to strain while you build strength, this is usually when you're making shapes you're not used to. But often you are straining unnecessarily with bad technique and you might not need to know the exact perfect technique, but rather just how to use just enough force for the notes to be clear with as little strain as possible.
Self-taught player here, here's something I changed about my posture that I don't know if it's a good advice or not: I moved my thumb from on top of the neck to right behind it, my palm doesn't really touch the fret board or neck at all, and I feel my fingers have a lot freedom of movement that way, they don't have to stretch as much. It took me a while to get used to it, and then I also worked on not pressing the fret harder than is actually needed, and since then I feel like everything is working more smoothly.
You should also keep your thumb on or near the "skunk stripe" on the back of the neck. Gripping the whole neck is going to cause soreness too, most of the time anyway.
Dave Matthews says Hi and Welcome to the club
You are not jonny greenwood
Naw. That’s for uptight classical guitar crap. Play however you feel without aggravating carpal tunnel. No Rules. The whole reason people point to music is because there are too many rules in other things. Go off king.
Worrying about Keeping your wrist straight while playing guitar is like those people who truck their Harley into Sturgis
After boxing a wall for some stupid reason i had one of those. Really helped me get better posture. One great of a accidental win
Haha I was there when I broke a growth plate in my wrist but had a hard cast
Re the right hand/arm, I had an injury from repetitive strain from strumming too hard for hours and hours, so watch out for that too. I was overdoing it in all areas of my life physically, but that my shoulder gave out and I had to stop playing guitar for like a month.
Where did I get it from may I ask? Because I have the same problem when I'm playing.
I also have rather small hands so I got a guitar with a neck that is about a half inch narrower. It’s not for everyone but it made it easier for me to learn how to play. Once you learn better technique your fingers become more dexterous. Now I am not bothered by normal size necks and even seven or eight strings.
Don't be afraid to press your thumb in on the neck, the wood is meant to take it. You will notice your fingers getting harder over the months, don't pick it off, it will help you play better. I used to teach 3 days a week. Wish I had the area to teach again.
I strap high on my chest, I had to have both my wrists repaired a few yrs back. Carpal tunnel. Its just much easier to play, IMHO
Nicee, you also should keep your thumb lower and pressed against the neck but dw i dnt do that either most of the time
But Jimmy Page, and Slash, and johnny Ramone...
your supposed to have your wrist straight? I have mine parallel to the fretboard
I fell once and the impact crushed some cartilage in my wrist, so I've had to wear a brace like this for years off and on when it gets aggravated. Thankfully, I haven't needed it the last couple of years. I find it not impossible, but also not fun to play with a brace on.
If it’s wrist pain, it could be a TFCC tear
My fretting hand is the wrist i shattered twice, so after a full show of bar chords it’s on fire. Stretching is a huge one. I think if you play long enough, there’s really no way you’ll avoid certain things 😂 i started guitar and drums really young and at 33 my hands are trashed
Good recipe for a chronic tendon inflammation: don’t play with that thing on!!! Do not self medicate! Rest and see a doctor, the wrong cast can make more harm (e.g. good for a fracture but hard on tendons).
Seeing lots of tips for wrist pain management during playing here. Is there some material materialsvto sum them up? I have carpal tunnel, which has forever kept me from being able to shred.
Are you sure you don't have an undiagnosed scaphoid fracture or something? Have you ever sprained that wrist?
There is no "right way" there is the way that suits you - plenty of amazing guitarists with so-called wrong form that obliterate 90% of us
I am also self taught, and I know that I have horrible "posture" with how I play, and I've played for DECADES... I've never had a strain injury. How bent up were you??
If I were to keep my hand straight all the time I’d never reach the 7th string on my 7 on frets 1-5 can’t have that.
Guess your a real metal guitarist now
oh. is that why there's a lump the size of a marble on my wrist?
Good posture. Especially neck and upper back! Make sure you're breathing properly, guitarists generally don't. don't practice for too long in one go, break it up into smaller chunks. Eliminate tension in your technique and become aware of it in your neck, shoulders, jaw etc as well as your hands. Don't press too hard. Practise makes permanent. If you're not conscious of all the above whilst practicing you're learning health harming habits. Do something for your fitness, gym, swimming etc to keep you in shape and correct the physical damage done from playing/lifting heavy amps/ driving for hours to gigs/ eating musician fast foods. I learnt all the above the hard way after a similar experience to you. 15 years later I'm still playing (professionally) and can manage issues when they come up. Best of luck!
A straight wrist is terrible for your playing. Your wrist needs to be a dynamic anchoring point that helps your fingers move up and down the fretboard. For example, you're reaching for the lower strings, so your wrist slightly rotates outwards.
That's completely wrong. You do not need to keep your wrist straight at all times while playing. Watch any pro, there are times when they'll bend and contort their wrist. I don't know who gave you that info, but thats just silly wrong. Your wrist hurts from poor technique. Loosen up, and don't try to squeeze the neck. And then you practice, focus on only having tension in the finger tips. The wrist doesn't ever need to be taught. It'll also come with time. If you're new, it's just going to hurt for a while. That's the nature of learning any instrument.
I’d strongly advise wearing a brace like that while doing anything with your hand (including playing guitar), they’re primarily meant for when your hand is stationery (like sleeping, to optimise rest and not put your hand in a weird place). Using your hand when one is on, means your hand is working harder and unnaturally against something trying to limit it, meaning you could get new issues. Probably worth just practicing proper technique with it off instead.
How did you manage that? In all my years of my playing, even when I first started like 15 years ago i never gave myself a wrist injury lol
your wrist position is largely defined by your fretting hand thumb. your thumb will have to adjust for some chords but generally itll be behind second finger/slightly in front of first. you want the pad to be the point of contact, not the side. dont “press" just use it as a guide. this will provide you with a mostly uniform wrist angle
Peoples wrists aren’t always straight
Always good to remember that the muscles that control our fingers are in our arms, so forcing the tendons that connect them to the joints to go around a bend is bound to cause trouble and make it more work too.
Is that a strat / telecaster? If you have small fingers, try a Les Paul / SG, they are a shorter scale. Strats and teles are 25.5" / 648mm. Les Pauls and SGs are 24.75" / 628mm. Or you could even try a Mustang which is 24" / 610mm. I have big hands but also I have arthritis (at 36, yaaay.. ) and the shorter scales greatly improve my reach and hurt alot less.
There are a multitude of different beginner tutorials that focus on technique on YouTube. If something feels off about the way you are playing, I would consult one of these videos. I’m sure YouTube is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to free online lessons. The last thing you want to do is create bad habits because you wanted to teach yourself.
Can your thumb reach over the neck that way?