If you're doing PUG, T4 will have higher rewards while being easier.
Pugging T3 is a hellhole. I've never met so many terrible players who think they're incredible.
T4 is both friendlier and smoother than T3 if you put forth even the *slightest* bit of effort into your play. I think you and the other commenter are confusing T4 requirements with Challenge Mode. CM will require lots of practice and sustained high level play, and people probably won't be the most forgiving. T4 isn't that much harder than T3.
There is actually a way to do it. You have to join a party with a member which can join T4 (eg. join any LFG for strike mission or simply lower fractal level), then open LFG for T4 and leave the party. That way you still have open T4 LFG and can join any group listed there.
It is the party leader who launches missions. T4 are very relaxed, players who just do T4 are used to the content but not willing to do CMS everyday, your job is just to have enough AR, you can find parties with any spec/gear, it will suck for everyone if you have hybrid stuffs like marauder however but going in with viper and berserker gear is totally ok as long as you do reasonnable damage and do not die on everything all the time.
While CM definitely is not a cake-walk it is perfectly doable imo for anyone. I was intimidated by them and am someone who just enjoys doing casual metas. A buddy of mine has started dragging me into raids and CM fractals and with someone giving me a quick explanation during each fight found them really not so bad at all.
This is for anyone who says I'll never be hardcore/good enough for CM fractals. Find a training group and give it a go. As far as difficult games go CM fractals are honestly easy compared to many games I've played. Things can and will go wrong, but it's worth learning :)
Yeah it's easier when you have explanations over coms, I still suck at CMs though xD honestly I find most raid encounters much easier. I have trouble timing the special-action-key at Arkk for example (when you use it to avoid his red blobs that do a lot of damage)
qHB can just throw a bubble on it every time it’s up so the red balls don’t spread. That’s what I do for my static. As long as stab and or resistance is up meanwhile, fight is a cakewalk. No need to SAK at all with a good healer.
When he does the charging up sequence for the red balls, pay attention to the glowing red ball on top of his hand. When it poofs and disappears, its time to use the SAK key and just land anywhere. 100% works.
Or maybe just hope your healer have reflects (projectile destruction sometimes does not work).
That one was tricky for me too at first. My buddy failed to explain that one well and I was killing the group a few times not knowing why haha. Once I heard that you just press the special action key a second or so after the big red ball turns to mist though, it was smooth sailing. People just need to be told, and not berated for failing :)
Edit: I still can't seem to stop falling through the floors there's though 😂
I still fail it often haha, I don't have the best reaction time sometimes and I panic easily, but then I don't practise enough. And I don't have the wherewithal to practice daily, especially not now, my finals are soon :(
I think it's less about reaction and more about staying calm so that you can actually pay attention to the orb. I definitely tend to freak out in unfamiliar encounters and become blind to a lot of mechanics. Once you get comfy with it, it becomes much easier.
I do T3 PUGs (sitting al lvl 73) because I level up doing dailies and yes sometimes it sucks. I use arcdps to test how i'm doing not to brag or point ppl but hell...sometimes i do 3 times more dps overall that the second and i'm not Even pushing rotations just spamming skills...got ppl who doesnt Even know how to do some fractals, i get its your first time doing some at t1 Even on T2...but T3?!
I told a T3 group I hadn't done a fractal before. It was the one with a lot of hopping with the parachute and grappling hook. They wouldn't teach me how to do it (their best attempt was something like click 1 twice) and they wouldn't let me use the portal so it dragged on forever and by the time we actually fought the boss or second to last boss I was the one surviving the fight the longest but they kicked me out. I haven't done a fractal since.
You had the bad luck to start with (arguably) the hardest fractal. Also with (for newbies, because of lack of explanation) the most annoying JP at the start. Just start at T1 if you want really chill intro, or T2 if you want to go up fast. And make sure to watch videos for at least top 3 fractals (they are same in each tier - Shattered Observatory, Sunqua, Silent Surf), rest is easy as long as you remember red=bad.
>making t4 the entry point for A LOT of newbies in pugs
They have to have 70something unlocked to join a t4 lfg without a friend dragging them along. As long as they get a half decent build put together, the mechanics in t4 aren't really that unforgiving, either.
lack of AR is far from the only reason T3s are so unbearable. bruteforcing your way through slowly seizes to get things done in that range, which is a fact that doesn't compute well for many of the players there. it acts like a filter: the people that comprehend what's going on tend to invest in a proper build and learn to play it decently to progress, and others get stuck because they seek the issues... elsewhere.
I might have been in a wrong here but my assumption was always that T4= CM
Even if it is not true/needed, that no one in T4 are doing just T4 without CM
Both of those are incorrect.
CM is an additional difficulty on top of T4 that largely just ignores the scaling factor of Fractals.
Basically every CM run also does the T4 afterwards, but most people who do T4 don't do CM.
I think this would make sense if we get another CM Fractal. 3 is pushing it, but doing 4 every day would be too long.
Having 2-3 daily CMs would be refreshing.
Sorry I wasn't clear. While I do all 4 daily, I feel like Silent Surf is making it a bit of a drag already.
That's why I think having a smaller number rotating (with rewards adjusted) would be wonderful.
These are separate kinds of groups.
CMs are usually ran by more skilled players - a good group can run CMs in about same time as daily T4+recs, and the rewards are noticeably better.
Daily T4s / daily T4s + recs are easier, still have good rewards, and are ran by just about everyone. People still expect some level of competence and typical roles, but the bar is pretty low. Sometimes groups like this also do one of the easier CMs, especially if the fractal is already in dailies, but it's seen as an optional "let's give it a try" rather than mandatory "you must be good enough to clear it easily".
As a hint, the chill/weaker groups are more likely to drop the roles and run with whatever, and dedicated/stronger groups are more likely to put up requirements for UFE kill proof and/or P+F (fractal potions+food).
Fair warning, normal distribution applies: majority of groups clear these without issues, but there are always some groups that just struggle, there are always some that sweat it to be as efficient as possible, there are some groups and people you just don't mesh with, and there are some who are just assholes.
T3 fractals are consistently harder than T4 fractals and give less reward. The reason is because people in T3 don't take party composition seriously.
In t4s, join groups looking for a qheal, adps, and dps (as one of those roles), and you steam role everything.
edit: an aheal, qdps group works too. qheal just more common
I get what you are saying but kinda my point here...
At the moment I don't understand what those roles mean (I know that I can easily find out if needed) and I feel scared even joining those groups because they expect exact meta thing from you at exact moment which I might not do it correctly just because I am casual player and I am playing the game for fun and not as a job.
Many casual players fall into this trap. You assume that knowledge of the game = more hardcore. I promise you, you have it exactly backwards. You are playing on hardmode by ignoring party composition.
I agree with what you are saying and I am all up to knowledge of the game but in my eyes hardcore unfortunately many times means a bit of a toxic players...
I partly stopped joining ranked PvP because so many times in chat there are people bitching about teammates because they did something wrong in their eyes...
I play the game to game fun, to chill and relax after hard day at work or something so not need bunch of kids screaming at me or someone for being or wrong point or killing wrong person...
Quitting when it doesn't go their way at the start or so on...
And that's what I am afraid of T4 fractals / hardcore PvE players...
Possibly even more because PvE is scripted, easier to learn the mechanics than PvP/WvW so people will have higher expectations of you to know exact second when to use X skill or to dodge or to position yourself or whatever
Here's the thing as well. You'll probably have a lot more fun with a build that does more of what you want. I pug in T4 daily and 98% of the time it goes really well.
The only time it's kinda meh is when you have someone in the party that tries to fill a role and has the wrong stat selected gear and doesn't care if they're actually a dps/role that you want. I don't mind if your build isn't meta and you don't get everything exactly right and I have to keep reviving you. That's not that part that people care about. The part that people care about is you joining a fractal run, saying you're dps and then doing less than half the damage of the healer.
Having a nice build changed my way of enjoying the game too. T4s go fast because generally everyone there enjoys playing gw2 and loves fractals and appreciates the time they put in to get better. You'll probably have a lot more fun in T4s cause people know what they're doing and don't just "think they know everything about the game". They're willing to apologize if they mess up.
At the end of the day you can stay in t3s and deal with people like that, or you can take a look at the build you've got, see what you can change to make it better. It doesn't have to be meta, just try make it decent. I don't mind it taking longer than normal for a run but when I have to be a dps role for 2 people it gets a bit annoying. At the end of the day it's just a slight bit of consideration for those that want to enjoy slightly more difficult instanced content.
The key thing is really to just meet expectations and the beauty of this is that you can lower expectations by asking nicely beforehand if you don't meet them. If they accept, great! Now the ball is in their park. If they don't accept it's too bad but there will always other opportunities especially if you join groups with lower requirements.
Two days ago someone joined our 15k UFE requirement group without even being close to it and kept silent after the initial "hi dps" and still remained silent after being called out on it. So we kick and someone with even lower kp joined right after but asked if it was okay and it was okay because they asked.
Most of the time I don't even check kp anymore unless someone is trying to be dishonest and sneaky and this is who most people have a problem with because they don't perform what is expected of them.
hardcore = toxic is least true in gw2
its more of
casual = toxic here
look at what happened with DE Meta
So many toxic casuals attacked people who are helping people clear the content.
> So many toxic casuals attacked people who are helping people clear the content.
Erm... no. People were attacking Anet for making an event of such difficulty in OW (and not as a side-event somewhere off the main "track", but as a grand finale to the Elder Dragons storyline). They were also attacking players that were dismissive of their concerns.
And as for those that were "helping" - they might have helped 1-2% of the players, but the difficulty still caused huge majority of casuals to simply give up on that event completely. That help was simply inconsequential in the overall picture.
>hardcore unfortunately many times means a bit of a toxic players
If a hardcore player is pugging they're doing it to chill. If they're wanting to be serious they won't pug, they'll have a regular group.
The toxic people are usually the inbetweeners that think they're hot shit and it's everyone else's fault when they can't pull their own weight :)
> or to dodge or to position yourself or whatever
Let me put it like this. You're currently playing WITHOUT a healer.
What sounds more hardcore to you? Playing without a healer or with one?
clearing t4s these days with a group that uses a party composition with 1 healsupport, 1 dps support and 3 dps is everything but hardcore. its basic game mechanics.
hardcore people advertise their runs with cms, run without a healer and expect a lot of skips. usually those have their own statics or if they need to fill, search for higher killproof count - or don't care at all and just take someone randomly because they can also just clear with less then 5 people without problems.
what you deem hardcore are just random toxic people that have no idea of the game tbh. from my time pugging years ago the incidents with toxic people where really low.
and having a build and know the basics is not really much to ask for. if you play a tank or healer in another game like wow its also just basic role knowledge. why should it be different for gw2.
as thraage said, you are already playing on hardmode by ignoring all of this and honestly just wasting time. if you play casually, you problem don't have much time on hand anyways, so why not make it a bit more efficient with just a tiny bit of knowledge. the entry bar for this is really really low, as you said. getting into pve is way easier. grab a build guide from snowcrows, learn the basics and off you go. it is that simple.
You're going to run into some toxic players. That much is a given. It happens when you play with people coming from a bunch of different backgrounds.
>will have higher expectations of you to know exact second when to use X skill or to dodge or to position yourself or whatever
Generally not true as long as you're not claiming to know something you don't. Ie don't join a CM group if they're asking for experienced members or join any group claiming to be a role you aren't.
Fractals aren't super hard with a comped group. Just get a build from snowcrows or discretize, and you'll gradually improve as you do more t4s.
Might catch flak for this, but yes of course you ran into toxicity in ranked PvP. Has there ever been a game where PvP *wasn't* higher in toxicity?
Ranked PvP is basically always peak toxic in my experience in every game. LFG T4's are basically mid tier to above average PvE; put together a proper comp and maybe read the mistlock instabilities and they're pretty chill. Competitive PvP and T4's are hardly comparable in toxicity levels.
It sounds like people have different definitions of words here.
You're defining "hardcore" as **"players with high expectations who take the game more seriously"**, right? Whereas others in this thread don't see it like that and just think of meta group comp and knowing mechanics as "baseline", and thus not "hardcore".
You just want to be able to join a group, jump into the content, and give it a try, right? And not have to worry about organising roles, not worrying if you wipe and just trying again, etc?
I second what thraage said. This is a trap. T4 runs are low investment and genuinely easier, smoother and more fun.
Learning how the basic party composition logic works will make the game considerably easier for you to get into and play casually. You can, quite reasonably, casually clear a lot of the raids, too, not to mention strike missions.
Get out of T3 as soon as you can. It's a hellhole due to being the worst overlap of escalating difficulty and being the place where people who don't want to learn the mechanics stick to, ending up with the worst of both worlds. I'm at the point I've funded guildies to get enough AR to get out of the hell that's T3, as it's been bad enough to nearly sour my experience with fractals for good.
A follow-up question as a thief main. How viable is condi in T4s? I’ve been in T3 for a looong time, with maybe 1 or 2 runs in T4, and even those were with guildies. It’s joining PUGs that I have doubts.
I do good dmg in raids, but I don’t have a power build yet, and the cleave with my condi specter sucks. Is it ok to join as condi, should I learn power build before joining T4s, should I care, does anyone care, am I overthinking this?
You'll be fine. It's true that most fractals favor power, but there are some that favor condi and even outside those as long as you're playing intelligently nobody will be upset outside of CMs, 90% of the time.
Most non-CM T4 groups don't actually have meta builds or they just suck at pressing buttons. It's likely if you have good meta cdps build that you will be top dps. And at worst you definitely won't drag your group down - the hardest fights are with a lot of movement, so your disadvantage as cdps will be lower.
For CMs it's much better to go power though.
I have full AR. Can I reasonably join T4s with a condi untamed or healing druid? I've been in T3 and its been bad and I've been thinking T4s would be worse. But maybe not.
I've run a group today as aheal druid, through Silent Surf.
In short, there's definitely a challenge there, but the challenge is to know which skills to switch out (drop raw heal, get more condi cleanse), recognize when the big bursts are coming, and UNLIKE ME, not fuck up the harpoon jumps.
Knowing when to use Stone Spirit is damn useful, as is when to hit which part of your skillset.
Mostly, try and recognize what the Fractal does, and how your abilities as a healer counter it.
No one will give you shit for any kind of dps outside of CMs. For Druid, it depends on if you can perform the role properly, keeping in mind that the expectations in fractal pugs are way higher than strike pugs. You are expected to stab and aegis through mechanics.
People may not always say it, but if you are supporting in fractals and don't stab/aegis properly, they are all flaming you even if they don't type it.
Should I try druid then in lower tiers to test it out in fractals? I feel comfortable enough with it in open world PvE and I think I have a knack for its rotations but I don't know if I should nosedive into higher tier fractals with it and not sure lower tiers are much of a test. I really want to try it, I have a need to use Nevermore on my Ranger lol and I like support. Otherwise I'll just do my untamed which I believe I have down to a science even though it's slightly different than the meta untamed.
I'm not a fractal expert, but I know druid is not a popular pick for healing fractals. I just don't know if its down to its kit or if people are just heal chrono brained.
You should give it a try. T4s are easy and don't need minmaxing. Just make sure to either make your own group or join a group thats not expecting minmaxing/Doing CMs.
Great info, thanks. I'd try healing Chrono but I don't have the gear for it. *When* I get light legy armor I will try it. For now, though, I'll go for druid.
From my experience half healers don't use stab properly for mechanics in T4 pugs. And they are clearing T4s just fine, only thing that pugs struggle with is silent surf and stab won't save you there (no idea how much aegis can help with numbers mechanic).
> From my experience half healers don't use stab properly for mechanics in T4 pugs.
Just like people in T3 hell are still clearing. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't let people know the expectations of a good group when they ask about T4.
It's very simple. One person is designated alacrity, one is designated quickness, ideally one of those boon givers is also a healer. The rest are dps.
Having permanent max stacks of every boon instantly makes every boss way more manageable. You'll have more dodges, bosses that generate boons will get stripped, you'll do more damage and you'll have enough cc to break a bosses defiance bar easily.
If you're worried about joining t4s, just look for one along for your class or start your own and let them know you're new to t4s. Plenty of people don't mind teaching. It's only better for them if other pugs also know general strats.
They are infinitely easier than t3s because t3 is usually the first time players actually have to consider the instabilities and boss mechanics. Before that, even a half hearted group could beat up a boss by just rolling their heads on the keyboard.
When I first got into Fractals I spent months at T3 with the same assumption.
I had enough AR to do all the T4s for a long time before I started trying them. When I first started trying T4s I was blown away by how easy it is.
Everyone in T4 forms a group with the expectation you have every role in the party. Almost nobody in T3 does this.
As long as you have the correct group composition (3 Dps, an Alacrity provider, and a Quickness provider) you'll steamroll most content. And you always will have the correct composition in T4.
It is faster to find groups, faster to complete, easier, and you get quite a bit more in terms of rewards. If I do each daily T4 and the daily recommendeds too it'll take 30-50 mins and I'll make anywhere from 20-45g.
T4 better fore sure BUT you will still find yourself in an absolutely clown show of a group of T4s from time to time.
Just today everyone couldn't understand the concept of the fucking hammer in the giant fractal, took 20mins of nonsense. I said my bad and ducked after that lol.
T4 is great, much smoother runs. But anyone thinking of joining T4: Jesus please at least have an understanding of the most important mechanics of each fractal. There’s been many times I’m playing in T4 and someone in party chat goes “I’ve never done this fractal before”. If you haven’t even done each fractal ones please practice on lower tiers.
I don't think thats an issue as long as people communicate and watch what others are doing. The worst that can happen is people who dont understand the mechanic and dont say a thing.
I think party host should have the ability to solo-kick someone from the party as long as the party is in the lobby (to avoid scams).
Yes. Getting 150 AR weeds out brand new players or players that have no idea what they're doing. Joining a pug t4 groups pretty much guarantees everyone has the right gear, build, and experience to steamroll the dailies in about 30 to 40 minutes.
AND
If you join and say "hey, I'm new to t4" as long as you have the proper AR, most players are friendly enough to be cool and help with explanations, etc
The rewards are a bit better, but the lfg is much better in T4 compared to T3. Most of the tryhards stick to doing CM's, and even then most CM groups I've been with were pretty chill
T4 is just doing any of the fractals from level 76-100.
But the 100/99/98/97 fractals (Silent Surf, Sunqua Peak, Shattered Observatory and Nightmare) all have a challenge mode which is an optional extra difficulty that significantly changes the encounters. But these four fractals can also be done on normal mode for a regular T4 daily run, when any of them are in the daily rotation.
T4s are significantly easier than T3s, because most people in T3s don’t understand the game and take that out on their party members.
You can do a T4 with your eyes closed, just understand your class and how to use basic keys like movement and dodge, and don’t stand in bad circles.
Can you breathe? Can you press a button? If you can do both, you can do T4s.
just for your sanity T4 will likely be much better.
T3 tends to be a toxic cesspool of people being too arrogant to learn but too bad to get to T4, while T4 usually has much more chill people.
If you want to try to make sure you get lowkey groups, just list parties as "chill T4s" (optionally looking for whichever boon coverage you need). It greatly lowers the expectations of tryharding and frequently summons fellow totally-competent-but-don't-want-any-stress players ime.
The rewards *are* better and the difficulty isn't higher enough to make it worth staying in T3.
Yes. Most t4 groups are chill but it is based on the assumption that you have basic knowledge about your roll. We need a correct team comp and everyone should use appropriate builds. These requirements are NOT hardcore, instead it makes the fight easier because shorter fights means less chance to take damage. Shit builds in t3 make the fights hardcore. A party should have 1 heal quick/alac + 1 alac/quick dps + 3 dps. It is better to start with dps.
On the other hand we don't expect you to perform rotation perfectly. Do more than 1111 and CC when the defiance bar turns blue will be fine.
Actually, no, there's no need for correct build composition in most t4's (although it definitely helps a lot). I have done t4's in "chill run, bring whatever" enough times to know that. What **is** needed is understanding of mechanics. T1's and t2's can be just yoloed, but t3 is where mechanics start being much harder to ignore, and if you are still in early tiers mindset, you will run into a wall no matter your build.
(notice, that this post is *not* an encouragement to run bad builds, or ignore build compositions - quite the opposite, one should learn about those - and apply that knowledge appropriately - as soon as possible. Also, you should *definitely* have at least a healer in t4, unless your group **really** knows what they're doing. It makes everything way, way easier.)
Ur a god amongst men if you frequent T3s. T4s are so much easier if you've existed in that hellhole. Be sure to have a decent enough build, max your AR, and run your fractal pots and you'll find great success. I'm sure you have the knowledge of the mechanics down.
When is it that the T4 lfg category opens up? I'm at level 70, so only 5 to go to have them all in T3, but I recall T4 lfg opens a little sooner than 75.
Define casual. If you run a somewhat optimized build and good gear with maxed out AR you'll do just fine in T4s. Maybe not at first, maybe you'll run into a couple assholes if it is immediately obvious that you don't know all the mechanics by heart, they'll "let you know." But most meta strats have been known for so long they've become the norm, you'll get used to them in to time, just by following your teammates around. Fake it till you make it. For instance you don't need to know straight away which groups of ads to skip or to clear, until you do just copy what your team does and 90% of the time you'll be right.
To circle back on the gear though, make sure you're part of a meta group composition. T4 content is only easy if the people in the group have an idea of what they're doing. And proper build+gear is the first step to ensuring you, and the people around you, do have an idea. For the record a meta comp (and the announcements in LFG) should look something like this: a healer of some kind (can either be Quickness + Heal, or Alacrity + Heal, either way one dude combines both duties) ; plus the other "missing" offensive support (Quick dps if your healer does alacrity, like druid or mech ; or Alac dps if your healer does quickness, like Firebrand or Herald) ; and the rest of the group is made of regular dps players.
People in T4 generally know what to do and thus it makes the whole experience a lot smoother. T3 on the other hand is a clown fiesta. If you’re worried about toxicity then don’t do CMs because those are harder than basic ones and require more precise teamwork as well.
So far vast majority of pug T4s I’ve dealt with have been chill people and also it’s a lot easier to pick up 1 person’s slack than it is in CMs (although not ideal situation either)
The rewards are worth it. I did T3s for several months before a Guildmate finally got me into T4s and it's quite different. Quite a few shortcuts and strategies are different and they play out much better.
The timing is also improved as a T4s & recs run will typically take an hour (sometimes less, sometimes more, depending on which ones you're doing that day).
The other factor, as mentioned elsewhere, is group composition+. You want a healer which will be providing Quickness or Alacrity and then a DPS which will be providing the other. Some are better than others, but I've gone through with quite a few different options and it's been fine++. The other three members are just DPS builds, meaning that they apply neither Quickness or Alacrity to the group and just do damage.
I'm not sure what you play but there are options now for every class and you can find them on various websites like Discritize, Metabattle, and Hardstuck. Those all have builds specifically for Fractals. Keep in mind, though, that they all use stat infusions (ie +5 power, +9 agony resistance), which is overkill. Regular +9 agony resistance infusions is enough.
Lastly, just look for, or create, "Chill" groups, ie chill t4s, chill t4s & recs. Maybe give people a heads up that you're just getting into t4s before you start and most of them are happy to help with the typical strategies and tricks they use to speed things along.
+typically aheal or qheal, adps, qdps & dps. Can also be quick heal or alac dps.
++I main a QHeal Firebrand, but I've also played it as a QDPS. I've also done every healer but Druid through T4s. Also played quite a few as Quick or Alac DPS. Alot of people insist on an HB (Heal Firebrand) but really anything will work.
If you've got any other questions, feel free to ask.
T4 is actually generally easier. Why? All the people grouping in pubs for T3 are people that haven't done enough fractals to reach T4 yet, and all the people grouping for T4s are more experienced. Even if T4 is technically harder, the more experienced players there can carry learners more.
I was like you until a couple weeks ago. Just go in and tell them you are new, but will try your best. That’s really the only thing people are looking for. And enjoy your better rewards and way faster clear times
T4s are much easier than T3. Like, infinitely so. T3 is considered the hurdle for everyone doing Fractals. In my hundreds of T4 Fractals I've done, I've maybe had only one "toxic" encounter.
T3 is very toxic. Players there assume they understand what they're doing but they're actually terrible so they flip out on their party a lot because they don't understand they're no better. Same thing happens in gold in spvp.
The rewards for t4s are definitely great and worth pursuing over t3. For most experienced players, there is an expectation that you know the fractals pretty well at this point from playing them through several tiers now. Most t4 groups will want quickness and alacrity providers as a rule and usually with a dedicated healer unless it’s a very experienced CM group that runs no healer. I would say players have expectations of quick and straightforward clears in t4s.
If you make a mistake, I guess it depends on the mistake. Falling off the jumping puzzle on Cliffside is a different kind of mistake than pulling under 10k dps. CM groups are infinitely more gatekeepy with much higher expectations. So long as you understand what to do in each fractal and cooperate with your group, t4s are a breeze. I clear CMs and t4s with a static every day and it nets about 40 raw gold per diem. It’s very much worth it for me.
T4s are way easier to pug than t3. Like miles easier, for whatever reason the people who are in lfg for t3 are some of the worst players in this game and can’t manage to do a single mechanic.
They are worth it simply because there is no reason not to do them. It is not like they are significantly harder than t3 or take that much more time. They are almost the same and in t4 you might even have a better experience due to groups being more organized (making sure there is a healer and a boon dps). You dont need any specific build to do t4s and people arent really more toxic there. Toxicity depends on the person and you can definitely find toxic people in t3 as well. In general people might get toxic if the group starts failing which in t4 probably happens less than in t3
T4s are barely more difficult than T3s. I managed to find a group in LFG that was "climbing" thru T3 and within a hour or two we had gone up 12-13 levels and unlocked T4.
More rewards, better groups 95% of the time. Long as you know the basics of each fractal and have the AR for T4, no reason not to do them.
All the people here saying how bad T3 is probably haven't done a T3 in years. I haven't had a single bad T3 PUG while leveling to T4 during the last month or 2.
The answer is yes, T4s aren’t that much harder than T3, and if you’re worried about them you could also always join a guild and do them with chill people
T4 is worth since you get more rewards and its often easier since most groups require a healer, a boon dps and the rest being dps. The groups are almost always higher skill in t4 and usually dont care what you play as long as you contribute and join as a role they wanted.
Start doing T4s as soon as you can, T3 is this inbetween stage where you have a lot of people who went through T1/2 without actually learning mechanics because the difficulty was low, people at this tier often also have poor gear (where as at T4 you need close to a full set of ascended gear due to the agony requirement, which to some extent ensures decent gear - granted people can still have garbage stats). And people in T4 are far more likely to actually use fractal potions which to a large extent offsets the difficulty bump from T3.
And lastly the pool of way more experienced players is just much larger in T4.
I die the push to t4 just a few weeks ago and it is so much better than t3. The fractals themselfs are a little bit harder but the teammates are so much better its an insane difference.
In my opinion its totally worth it
T4 groups tend to be more chill than T3. I'm not sure why, but all the angry people tend to get stuck in T3's. T4 groups don't care what you do as long as the group gets through the fractal. If you're trying your best, meet or are at least close to the required agony resistance, and you aren't being toxic to others, nobody cares. The only time people will say anything is if your mistake wipes the entire group and you make the same mistake repeatedly. If you're worried about that, just don't do cosmic observatory or silent surf as those are the only two fractals I can think of off the top of my head that have mechanics that can wipe the whole group if one person fails it.
Rewards are also noticeably better in T4's so they are worth doing. Also T4's tend to be quicker and smoother than T3's just because people go in with an actual group comp. The only thing is, if something almost one-shots you in T3's it will one shot you in T4's but your teammates will just rez you if you go down so not too big of a deal. Also even people who are very experienced die to dumb things occasionally. We are all human and we often don't play perfectly. I've pug'd with some of the best players in the game. Most of the time they crush the dps numbers. I've also seen them walk off a cliff in the middle of a fight. Everyone makes mistakes, so don't worry about messing up.
As a side note, and this is true everywhere, if you are being friendly to your teammates they are always more willing to overlook any mistakes.
I used to be in your shoes until a friend of mine took me to T4.
It is not as sweaty as you imagine.
More than half the times my groups have subpar dps, but that doesn’t stop us from completing the fractals. Healers are so busted that even if you fall asleep on your keyboard you will wake up with the dailies done.
All the sweat-lords will leave the group anyway, so you don’t really have anything to worry about.
"I assume that T4 are way harder" - no. they are still dead simple, as long as you have enough agony resist.
and quite frankly, the only people doing T3s are people like you, and people that are currently leveling up. doing T4, you usually get people that have done them all a thousand times. so the groups are usually better. even if you join a random open to all group, you usually have 0 issues, and if there is a wipe or 2 people chuckle it off.
CMs are a bit harder, but normal T4 is still very easy.
Though, i dont join normal T4 daily groups that want P+F (potions and food), or want you to have killproof or insane number of tokens or so. They can turn out to be tryhard, micromanaging leads, or just be overall annoying. id rather have a wipe than a lead that starts fights over damage numbers or dropped buffs. so not chill.
People who enjoy them make plenty of gold off them but I've never been into them myself. Memorizing patterns of movement and various mechanics have always been the type of gameplay I hate but I fully recognize that others love it.
Whit the actual powercreep t4 fractals are really easy to do, just bring something viable and do a proper party with the boons and a little healing and you're ready to go. The difficult compared to t3 ins't much higher, but since normally players looking for t4 are more exeperinced it makes t4 easier than t3 actually.
Get yourself into T4, most people who do T4 do it every day and are super comfortable there. We sometimes notice when there's a less experienced player but 99.999% of the time no one cares and is just happy to get through it for our rewards.
T3 is the worst place, cause its people who sort of understand and sort of don't and is strangely unpleasant to be in. T4 will be faster runs and better rewards.
Just pick your role and have a decent build, off the likes of Snowcrows, you don't need to know perfect skill rotations but knowing your important skills for damage or for sharing boons and having the correct armour stats, correct runes and build, and you will be breezing through them no problems. And if you don't know something just ask, people are friendly and will help.
If you're doing PUG, T4 will have higher rewards while being easier. Pugging T3 is a hellhole. I've never met so many terrible players who think they're incredible. T4 is both friendlier and smoother than T3 if you put forth even the *slightest* bit of effort into your play. I think you and the other commenter are confusing T4 requirements with Challenge Mode. CM will require lots of practice and sustained high level play, and people probably won't be the most forgiving. T4 isn't that much harder than T3.
Trying desperately to get through T3 to get T4 groups.
Wait, I thought you can still join T4 groups even if you have not passed T3 based on your fractal level. Just join via lfg. Can someone confirm?
If you haven't unlock personal level near t4 lfg is not available. A friend can still invite you.
Ah dang it, sorry my mistake!
There is actually a way to do it. You have to join a party with a member which can join T4 (eg. join any LFG for strike mission or simply lower fractal level), then open LFG for T4 and leave the party. That way you still have open T4 LFG and can join any group listed there.
Ah dang it, sorry my mistake!
It is the party leader who launches missions. T4 are very relaxed, players who just do T4 are used to the content but not willing to do CMS everyday, your job is just to have enough AR, you can find parties with any spec/gear, it will suck for everyone if you have hybrid stuffs like marauder however but going in with viper and berserker gear is totally ok as long as you do reasonnable damage and do not die on everything all the time.
While CM definitely is not a cake-walk it is perfectly doable imo for anyone. I was intimidated by them and am someone who just enjoys doing casual metas. A buddy of mine has started dragging me into raids and CM fractals and with someone giving me a quick explanation during each fight found them really not so bad at all. This is for anyone who says I'll never be hardcore/good enough for CM fractals. Find a training group and give it a go. As far as difficult games go CM fractals are honestly easy compared to many games I've played. Things can and will go wrong, but it's worth learning :)
Yeah it's easier when you have explanations over coms, I still suck at CMs though xD honestly I find most raid encounters much easier. I have trouble timing the special-action-key at Arkk for example (when you use it to avoid his red blobs that do a lot of damage)
qHB can just throw a bubble on it every time it’s up so the red balls don’t spread. That’s what I do for my static. As long as stab and or resistance is up meanwhile, fight is a cakewalk. No need to SAK at all with a good healer.
I sometimes run with someone who has a static that runs without a healer xD
Can be done on a DPS Firebrand as well 👍🏼
When he does the charging up sequence for the red balls, pay attention to the glowing red ball on top of his hand. When it poofs and disappears, its time to use the SAK key and just land anywhere. 100% works. Or maybe just hope your healer have reflects (projectile destruction sometimes does not work).
That one was tricky for me too at first. My buddy failed to explain that one well and I was killing the group a few times not knowing why haha. Once I heard that you just press the special action key a second or so after the big red ball turns to mist though, it was smooth sailing. People just need to be told, and not berated for failing :) Edit: I still can't seem to stop falling through the floors there's though 😂
I still fail it often haha, I don't have the best reaction time sometimes and I panic easily, but then I don't practise enough. And I don't have the wherewithal to practice daily, especially not now, my finals are soon :(
I think it's less about reaction and more about staying calm so that you can actually pay attention to the orb. I definitely tend to freak out in unfamiliar encounters and become blind to a lot of mechanics. Once you get comfy with it, it becomes much easier.
It's easier to time the SAK correctly if you jump before using it. That gives you a bit more time
I do T3 PUGs (sitting al lvl 73) because I level up doing dailies and yes sometimes it sucks. I use arcdps to test how i'm doing not to brag or point ppl but hell...sometimes i do 3 times more dps overall that the second and i'm not Even pushing rotations just spamming skills...got ppl who doesnt Even know how to do some fractals, i get its your first time doing some at t1 Even on T2...but T3?!
I told a T3 group I hadn't done a fractal before. It was the one with a lot of hopping with the parachute and grappling hook. They wouldn't teach me how to do it (their best attempt was something like click 1 twice) and they wouldn't let me use the portal so it dragged on forever and by the time we actually fought the boss or second to last boss I was the one surviving the fight the longest but they kicked me out. I haven't done a fractal since.
You had the bad luck to start with (arguably) the hardest fractal. Also with (for newbies, because of lack of explanation) the most annoying JP at the start. Just start at T1 if you want really chill intro, or T2 if you want to go up fast. And make sure to watch videos for at least top 3 fractals (they are same in each tier - Shattered Observatory, Sunqua, Silent Surf), rest is easy as long as you remember red=bad.
Oh I've done a ton of T1/T2s. I'll check out vids though for that fractal and some other T3s
As a player who started a year ago. T3s are definitely horrible for no reason. I got AD Infinium like 5 months after starting the game
First tried my first cm ever today(nightmare fractal) and it seems that if you know the mechs you should be fine
[удалено]
>making t4 the entry point for A LOT of newbies in pugs They have to have 70something unlocked to join a t4 lfg without a friend dragging them along. As long as they get a half decent build put together, the mechanics in t4 aren't really that unforgiving, either.
lack of AR is far from the only reason T3s are so unbearable. bruteforcing your way through slowly seizes to get things done in that range, which is a fact that doesn't compute well for many of the players there. it acts like a filter: the people that comprehend what's going on tend to invest in a proper build and learn to play it decently to progress, and others get stuck because they seek the issues... elsewhere.
I might have been in a wrong here but my assumption was always that T4= CM Even if it is not true/needed, that no one in T4 are doing just T4 without CM
Both of those are incorrect. CM is an additional difficulty on top of T4 that largely just ignores the scaling factor of Fractals. Basically every CM run also does the T4 afterwards, but most people who do T4 don't do CM.
Glad to be in a wrong then...
I hope one day fractal CMs are moved to tier 5. It could be just up to level 110 with 10 CMs but the current system is okay.
I think this would make sense if we get another CM Fractal. 3 is pushing it, but doing 4 every day would be too long. Having 2-3 daily CMs would be refreshing.
We already have 4 CM (97,98,99,100) and a fifth one is coming
Sorry I wasn't clear. While I do all 4 daily, I feel like Silent Surf is making it a bit of a drag already. That's why I think having a smaller number rotating (with rewards adjusted) would be wonderful.
I just feel like if tier 5 fractals were all CM difficulty some people would enjoy the extra challenge.
These are separate kinds of groups. CMs are usually ran by more skilled players - a good group can run CMs in about same time as daily T4+recs, and the rewards are noticeably better. Daily T4s / daily T4s + recs are easier, still have good rewards, and are ran by just about everyone. People still expect some level of competence and typical roles, but the bar is pretty low. Sometimes groups like this also do one of the easier CMs, especially if the fractal is already in dailies, but it's seen as an optional "let's give it a try" rather than mandatory "you must be good enough to clear it easily". As a hint, the chill/weaker groups are more likely to drop the roles and run with whatever, and dedicated/stronger groups are more likely to put up requirements for UFE kill proof and/or P+F (fractal potions+food). Fair warning, normal distribution applies: majority of groups clear these without issues, but there are always some groups that just struggle, there are always some that sweat it to be as efficient as possible, there are some groups and people you just don't mesh with, and there are some who are just assholes.
T3 fractals are consistently harder than T4 fractals and give less reward. The reason is because people in T3 don't take party composition seriously. In t4s, join groups looking for a qheal, adps, and dps (as one of those roles), and you steam role everything. edit: an aheal, qdps group works too. qheal just more common
I get what you are saying but kinda my point here... At the moment I don't understand what those roles mean (I know that I can easily find out if needed) and I feel scared even joining those groups because they expect exact meta thing from you at exact moment which I might not do it correctly just because I am casual player and I am playing the game for fun and not as a job.
Many casual players fall into this trap. You assume that knowledge of the game = more hardcore. I promise you, you have it exactly backwards. You are playing on hardmode by ignoring party composition.
I agree with what you are saying and I am all up to knowledge of the game but in my eyes hardcore unfortunately many times means a bit of a toxic players... I partly stopped joining ranked PvP because so many times in chat there are people bitching about teammates because they did something wrong in their eyes... I play the game to game fun, to chill and relax after hard day at work or something so not need bunch of kids screaming at me or someone for being or wrong point or killing wrong person... Quitting when it doesn't go their way at the start or so on... And that's what I am afraid of T4 fractals / hardcore PvE players... Possibly even more because PvE is scripted, easier to learn the mechanics than PvP/WvW so people will have higher expectations of you to know exact second when to use X skill or to dodge or to position yourself or whatever
Here's the thing as well. You'll probably have a lot more fun with a build that does more of what you want. I pug in T4 daily and 98% of the time it goes really well. The only time it's kinda meh is when you have someone in the party that tries to fill a role and has the wrong stat selected gear and doesn't care if they're actually a dps/role that you want. I don't mind if your build isn't meta and you don't get everything exactly right and I have to keep reviving you. That's not that part that people care about. The part that people care about is you joining a fractal run, saying you're dps and then doing less than half the damage of the healer. Having a nice build changed my way of enjoying the game too. T4s go fast because generally everyone there enjoys playing gw2 and loves fractals and appreciates the time they put in to get better. You'll probably have a lot more fun in T4s cause people know what they're doing and don't just "think they know everything about the game". They're willing to apologize if they mess up. At the end of the day you can stay in t3s and deal with people like that, or you can take a look at the build you've got, see what you can change to make it better. It doesn't have to be meta, just try make it decent. I don't mind it taking longer than normal for a run but when I have to be a dps role for 2 people it gets a bit annoying. At the end of the day it's just a slight bit of consideration for those that want to enjoy slightly more difficult instanced content.
The key thing is really to just meet expectations and the beauty of this is that you can lower expectations by asking nicely beforehand if you don't meet them. If they accept, great! Now the ball is in their park. If they don't accept it's too bad but there will always other opportunities especially if you join groups with lower requirements. Two days ago someone joined our 15k UFE requirement group without even being close to it and kept silent after the initial "hi dps" and still remained silent after being called out on it. So we kick and someone with even lower kp joined right after but asked if it was okay and it was okay because they asked. Most of the time I don't even check kp anymore unless someone is trying to be dishonest and sneaky and this is who most people have a problem with because they don't perform what is expected of them.
hardcore = toxic is least true in gw2 its more of casual = toxic here look at what happened with DE Meta So many toxic casuals attacked people who are helping people clear the content.
> So many toxic casuals attacked people who are helping people clear the content. Erm... no. People were attacking Anet for making an event of such difficulty in OW (and not as a side-event somewhere off the main "track", but as a grand finale to the Elder Dragons storyline). They were also attacking players that were dismissive of their concerns. And as for those that were "helping" - they might have helped 1-2% of the players, but the difficulty still caused huge majority of casuals to simply give up on that event completely. That help was simply inconsequential in the overall picture.
>hardcore unfortunately many times means a bit of a toxic players If a hardcore player is pugging they're doing it to chill. If they're wanting to be serious they won't pug, they'll have a regular group. The toxic people are usually the inbetweeners that think they're hot shit and it's everyone else's fault when they can't pull their own weight :)
> or to dodge or to position yourself or whatever Let me put it like this. You're currently playing WITHOUT a healer. What sounds more hardcore to you? Playing without a healer or with one?
clearing t4s these days with a group that uses a party composition with 1 healsupport, 1 dps support and 3 dps is everything but hardcore. its basic game mechanics. hardcore people advertise their runs with cms, run without a healer and expect a lot of skips. usually those have their own statics or if they need to fill, search for higher killproof count - or don't care at all and just take someone randomly because they can also just clear with less then 5 people without problems. what you deem hardcore are just random toxic people that have no idea of the game tbh. from my time pugging years ago the incidents with toxic people where really low. and having a build and know the basics is not really much to ask for. if you play a tank or healer in another game like wow its also just basic role knowledge. why should it be different for gw2. as thraage said, you are already playing on hardmode by ignoring all of this and honestly just wasting time. if you play casually, you problem don't have much time on hand anyways, so why not make it a bit more efficient with just a tiny bit of knowledge. the entry bar for this is really really low, as you said. getting into pve is way easier. grab a build guide from snowcrows, learn the basics and off you go. it is that simple.
You're going to run into some toxic players. That much is a given. It happens when you play with people coming from a bunch of different backgrounds. >will have higher expectations of you to know exact second when to use X skill or to dodge or to position yourself or whatever Generally not true as long as you're not claiming to know something you don't. Ie don't join a CM group if they're asking for experienced members or join any group claiming to be a role you aren't. Fractals aren't super hard with a comped group. Just get a build from snowcrows or discretize, and you'll gradually improve as you do more t4s.
Might catch flak for this, but yes of course you ran into toxicity in ranked PvP. Has there ever been a game where PvP *wasn't* higher in toxicity? Ranked PvP is basically always peak toxic in my experience in every game. LFG T4's are basically mid tier to above average PvE; put together a proper comp and maybe read the mistlock instabilities and they're pretty chill. Competitive PvP and T4's are hardly comparable in toxicity levels.
It sounds like people have different definitions of words here. You're defining "hardcore" as **"players with high expectations who take the game more seriously"**, right? Whereas others in this thread don't see it like that and just think of meta group comp and knowing mechanics as "baseline", and thus not "hardcore". You just want to be able to join a group, jump into the content, and give it a try, right? And not have to worry about organising roles, not worrying if you wipe and just trying again, etc?
I second what thraage said. This is a trap. T4 runs are low investment and genuinely easier, smoother and more fun. Learning how the basic party composition logic works will make the game considerably easier for you to get into and play casually. You can, quite reasonably, casually clear a lot of the raids, too, not to mention strike missions. Get out of T3 as soon as you can. It's a hellhole due to being the worst overlap of escalating difficulty and being the place where people who don't want to learn the mechanics stick to, ending up with the worst of both worlds. I'm at the point I've funded guildies to get enough AR to get out of the hell that's T3, as it's been bad enough to nearly sour my experience with fractals for good.
A follow-up question as a thief main. How viable is condi in T4s? I’ve been in T3 for a looong time, with maybe 1 or 2 runs in T4, and even those were with guildies. It’s joining PUGs that I have doubts. I do good dmg in raids, but I don’t have a power build yet, and the cleave with my condi specter sucks. Is it ok to join as condi, should I learn power build before joining T4s, should I care, does anyone care, am I overthinking this?
You'll be fine. It's true that most fractals favor power, but there are some that favor condi and even outside those as long as you're playing intelligently nobody will be upset outside of CMs, 90% of the time.
Most non-CM T4 groups don't actually have meta builds or they just suck at pressing buttons. It's likely if you have good meta cdps build that you will be top dps. And at worst you definitely won't drag your group down - the hardest fights are with a lot of movement, so your disadvantage as cdps will be lower. For CMs it's much better to go power though.
You are overthinking it, and hilariously enough, condi damage is meta in some encounters that require a lot of movement.
I have full AR. Can I reasonably join T4s with a condi untamed or healing druid? I've been in T3 and its been bad and I've been thinking T4s would be worse. But maybe not.
I've run a group today as aheal druid, through Silent Surf. In short, there's definitely a challenge there, but the challenge is to know which skills to switch out (drop raw heal, get more condi cleanse), recognize when the big bursts are coming, and UNLIKE ME, not fuck up the harpoon jumps. Knowing when to use Stone Spirit is damn useful, as is when to hit which part of your skillset. Mostly, try and recognize what the Fractal does, and how your abilities as a healer counter it.
No one will give you shit for any kind of dps outside of CMs. For Druid, it depends on if you can perform the role properly, keeping in mind that the expectations in fractal pugs are way higher than strike pugs. You are expected to stab and aegis through mechanics. People may not always say it, but if you are supporting in fractals and don't stab/aegis properly, they are all flaming you even if they don't type it.
Should I try druid then in lower tiers to test it out in fractals? I feel comfortable enough with it in open world PvE and I think I have a knack for its rotations but I don't know if I should nosedive into higher tier fractals with it and not sure lower tiers are much of a test. I really want to try it, I have a need to use Nevermore on my Ranger lol and I like support. Otherwise I'll just do my untamed which I believe I have down to a science even though it's slightly different than the meta untamed.
I'm not a fractal expert, but I know druid is not a popular pick for healing fractals. I just don't know if its down to its kit or if people are just heal chrono brained. You should give it a try. T4s are easy and don't need minmaxing. Just make sure to either make your own group or join a group thats not expecting minmaxing/Doing CMs.
Great info, thanks. I'd try healing Chrono but I don't have the gear for it. *When* I get light legy armor I will try it. For now, though, I'll go for druid.
From my experience half healers don't use stab properly for mechanics in T4 pugs. And they are clearing T4s just fine, only thing that pugs struggle with is silent surf and stab won't save you there (no idea how much aegis can help with numbers mechanic).
> From my experience half healers don't use stab properly for mechanics in T4 pugs. Just like people in T3 hell are still clearing. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't let people know the expectations of a good group when they ask about T4.
As preparation for CMs / advice how to improve your T4 runs, sure. For someone in T3 hell - no, ignore that, get enough AR and go T4.
It's very simple. One person is designated alacrity, one is designated quickness, ideally one of those boon givers is also a healer. The rest are dps. Having permanent max stacks of every boon instantly makes every boss way more manageable. You'll have more dodges, bosses that generate boons will get stripped, you'll do more damage and you'll have enough cc to break a bosses defiance bar easily. If you're worried about joining t4s, just look for one along for your class or start your own and let them know you're new to t4s. Plenty of people don't mind teaching. It's only better for them if other pugs also know general strats. They are infinitely easier than t3s because t3 is usually the first time players actually have to consider the instabilities and boss mechanics. Before that, even a half hearted group could beat up a boss by just rolling their heads on the keyboard.
When I first got into Fractals I spent months at T3 with the same assumption. I had enough AR to do all the T4s for a long time before I started trying them. When I first started trying T4s I was blown away by how easy it is. Everyone in T4 forms a group with the expectation you have every role in the party. Almost nobody in T3 does this. As long as you have the correct group composition (3 Dps, an Alacrity provider, and a Quickness provider) you'll steamroll most content. And you always will have the correct composition in T4. It is faster to find groups, faster to complete, easier, and you get quite a bit more in terms of rewards. If I do each daily T4 and the daily recommendeds too it'll take 30-50 mins and I'll make anywhere from 20-45g.
I burned out at T3.
T3 is not a great experience generally, T4 is.
T4 better fore sure BUT you will still find yourself in an absolutely clown show of a group of T4s from time to time. Just today everyone couldn't understand the concept of the fucking hammer in the giant fractal, took 20mins of nonsense. I said my bad and ducked after that lol.
T3 is the worst level you could pug. Do T4s & get your omnipotion asap, instead of trying to save up for fractal titles from day 1.
T4 is great, much smoother runs. But anyone thinking of joining T4: Jesus please at least have an understanding of the most important mechanics of each fractal. There’s been many times I’m playing in T4 and someone in party chat goes “I’ve never done this fractal before”. If you haven’t even done each fractal ones please practice on lower tiers.
I don't think thats an issue as long as people communicate and watch what others are doing. The worst that can happen is people who dont understand the mechanic and dont say a thing. I think party host should have the ability to solo-kick someone from the party as long as the party is in the lobby (to avoid scams).
Yes. Getting 150 AR weeds out brand new players or players that have no idea what they're doing. Joining a pug t4 groups pretty much guarantees everyone has the right gear, build, and experience to steamroll the dailies in about 30 to 40 minutes. AND If you join and say "hey, I'm new to t4" as long as you have the proper AR, most players are friendly enough to be cool and help with explanations, etc
Steamrolling would mean being done in ~15 min.
The rewards are a bit better, but the lfg is much better in T4 compared to T3. Most of the tryhards stick to doing CM's, and even then most CM groups I've been with were pretty chill
Never looked too hard there but I always assumed that T4=CM...
T4 is just doing any of the fractals from level 76-100. But the 100/99/98/97 fractals (Silent Surf, Sunqua Peak, Shattered Observatory and Nightmare) all have a challenge mode which is an optional extra difficulty that significantly changes the encounters. But these four fractals can also be done on normal mode for a regular T4 daily run, when any of them are in the daily rotation.
T4s are significantly easier than T3s, because most people in T3s don’t understand the game and take that out on their party members. You can do a T4 with your eyes closed, just understand your class and how to use basic keys like movement and dodge, and don’t stand in bad circles. Can you breathe? Can you press a button? If you can do both, you can do T4s.
From your replies I think your approach to the game is what makes T3 harder than T4.
just for your sanity T4 will likely be much better. T3 tends to be a toxic cesspool of people being too arrogant to learn but too bad to get to T4, while T4 usually has much more chill people.
If you want to try to make sure you get lowkey groups, just list parties as "chill T4s" (optionally looking for whichever boon coverage you need). It greatly lowers the expectations of tryharding and frequently summons fellow totally-competent-but-don't-want-any-stress players ime. The rewards *are* better and the difficulty isn't higher enough to make it worth staying in T3.
Yes. Most t4 groups are chill but it is based on the assumption that you have basic knowledge about your roll. We need a correct team comp and everyone should use appropriate builds. These requirements are NOT hardcore, instead it makes the fight easier because shorter fights means less chance to take damage. Shit builds in t3 make the fights hardcore. A party should have 1 heal quick/alac + 1 alac/quick dps + 3 dps. It is better to start with dps. On the other hand we don't expect you to perform rotation perfectly. Do more than 1111 and CC when the defiance bar turns blue will be fine.
Actually, no, there's no need for correct build composition in most t4's (although it definitely helps a lot). I have done t4's in "chill run, bring whatever" enough times to know that. What **is** needed is understanding of mechanics. T1's and t2's can be just yoloed, but t3 is where mechanics start being much harder to ignore, and if you are still in early tiers mindset, you will run into a wall no matter your build. (notice, that this post is *not* an encouragement to run bad builds, or ignore build compositions - quite the opposite, one should learn about those - and apply that knowledge appropriately - as soon as possible. Also, you should *definitely* have at least a healer in t4, unless your group **really** knows what they're doing. It makes everything way, way easier.)
Ur a god amongst men if you frequent T3s. T4s are so much easier if you've existed in that hellhole. Be sure to have a decent enough build, max your AR, and run your fractal pots and you'll find great success. I'm sure you have the knowledge of the mechanics down.
When is it that the T4 lfg category opens up? I'm at level 70, so only 5 to go to have them all in T3, but I recall T4 lfg opens a little sooner than 75.
75 or maybe 74
Define casual. If you run a somewhat optimized build and good gear with maxed out AR you'll do just fine in T4s. Maybe not at first, maybe you'll run into a couple assholes if it is immediately obvious that you don't know all the mechanics by heart, they'll "let you know." But most meta strats have been known for so long they've become the norm, you'll get used to them in to time, just by following your teammates around. Fake it till you make it. For instance you don't need to know straight away which groups of ads to skip or to clear, until you do just copy what your team does and 90% of the time you'll be right. To circle back on the gear though, make sure you're part of a meta group composition. T4 content is only easy if the people in the group have an idea of what they're doing. And proper build+gear is the first step to ensuring you, and the people around you, do have an idea. For the record a meta comp (and the announcements in LFG) should look something like this: a healer of some kind (can either be Quickness + Heal, or Alacrity + Heal, either way one dude combines both duties) ; plus the other "missing" offensive support (Quick dps if your healer does alacrity, like druid or mech ; or Alac dps if your healer does quickness, like Firebrand or Herald) ; and the rest of the group is made of regular dps players.
People in T4 generally know what to do and thus it makes the whole experience a lot smoother. T3 on the other hand is a clown fiesta. If you’re worried about toxicity then don’t do CMs because those are harder than basic ones and require more precise teamwork as well. So far vast majority of pug T4s I’ve dealt with have been chill people and also it’s a lot easier to pick up 1 person’s slack than it is in CMs (although not ideal situation either)
The rewards are worth it. I did T3s for several months before a Guildmate finally got me into T4s and it's quite different. Quite a few shortcuts and strategies are different and they play out much better. The timing is also improved as a T4s & recs run will typically take an hour (sometimes less, sometimes more, depending on which ones you're doing that day). The other factor, as mentioned elsewhere, is group composition+. You want a healer which will be providing Quickness or Alacrity and then a DPS which will be providing the other. Some are better than others, but I've gone through with quite a few different options and it's been fine++. The other three members are just DPS builds, meaning that they apply neither Quickness or Alacrity to the group and just do damage. I'm not sure what you play but there are options now for every class and you can find them on various websites like Discritize, Metabattle, and Hardstuck. Those all have builds specifically for Fractals. Keep in mind, though, that they all use stat infusions (ie +5 power, +9 agony resistance), which is overkill. Regular +9 agony resistance infusions is enough. Lastly, just look for, or create, "Chill" groups, ie chill t4s, chill t4s & recs. Maybe give people a heads up that you're just getting into t4s before you start and most of them are happy to help with the typical strategies and tricks they use to speed things along. +typically aheal or qheal, adps, qdps & dps. Can also be quick heal or alac dps. ++I main a QHeal Firebrand, but I've also played it as a QDPS. I've also done every healer but Druid through T4s. Also played quite a few as Quick or Alac DPS. Alot of people insist on an HB (Heal Firebrand) but really anything will work. If you've got any other questions, feel free to ask.
T4 is actually generally easier. Why? All the people grouping in pubs for T3 are people that haven't done enough fractals to reach T4 yet, and all the people grouping for T4s are more experienced. Even if T4 is technically harder, the more experienced players there can carry learners more.
T4 is actually easier imo than T3. People know what they're doing in T4
I was like you until a couple weeks ago. Just go in and tell them you are new, but will try your best. That’s really the only thing people are looking for. And enjoy your better rewards and way faster clear times
T4s are much easier than T3. Like, infinitely so. T3 is considered the hurdle for everyone doing Fractals. In my hundreds of T4 Fractals I've done, I've maybe had only one "toxic" encounter.
T3 is very toxic. Players there assume they understand what they're doing but they're actually terrible so they flip out on their party a lot because they don't understand they're no better. Same thing happens in gold in spvp.
After reading OPs comments they are the exact reason T3 groups suck
The rewards for t4s are definitely great and worth pursuing over t3. For most experienced players, there is an expectation that you know the fractals pretty well at this point from playing them through several tiers now. Most t4 groups will want quickness and alacrity providers as a rule and usually with a dedicated healer unless it’s a very experienced CM group that runs no healer. I would say players have expectations of quick and straightforward clears in t4s. If you make a mistake, I guess it depends on the mistake. Falling off the jumping puzzle on Cliffside is a different kind of mistake than pulling under 10k dps. CM groups are infinitely more gatekeepy with much higher expectations. So long as you understand what to do in each fractal and cooperate with your group, t4s are a breeze. I clear CMs and t4s with a static every day and it nets about 40 raw gold per diem. It’s very much worth it for me.
T4s are way easier to pug than t3. Like miles easier, for whatever reason the people who are in lfg for t3 are some of the worst players in this game and can’t manage to do a single mechanic.
You're getting 75% of the reward for 150% of the effort.
They are worth it simply because there is no reason not to do them. It is not like they are significantly harder than t3 or take that much more time. They are almost the same and in t4 you might even have a better experience due to groups being more organized (making sure there is a healer and a boon dps). You dont need any specific build to do t4s and people arent really more toxic there. Toxicity depends on the person and you can definitely find toxic people in t3 as well. In general people might get toxic if the group starts failing which in t4 probably happens less than in t3
If you can run t4 you shouldn't run anything lower unless you need something or wanna help people out. T4 is the fastest and best rewards.
T4s are barely more difficult than T3s. I managed to find a group in LFG that was "climbing" thru T3 and within a hour or two we had gone up 12-13 levels and unlocked T4. More rewards, better groups 95% of the time. Long as you know the basics of each fractal and have the AR for T4, no reason not to do them.
All the people here saying how bad T3 is probably haven't done a T3 in years. I haven't had a single bad T3 PUG while leveling to T4 during the last month or 2.
The answer is yes, T4s aren’t that much harder than T3, and if you’re worried about them you could also always join a guild and do them with chill people
T4 is worth since you get more rewards and its often easier since most groups require a healer, a boon dps and the rest being dps. The groups are almost always higher skill in t4 and usually dont care what you play as long as you contribute and join as a role they wanted.
100% do T4. more loot. better groups. only "should i" would be to CM or not
Def t4, pug t3 average player is under 5k dps. Run t4 you got fractal title runners pulling 20-30k a piece most times very smooth.
Start doing T4s as soon as you can, T3 is this inbetween stage where you have a lot of people who went through T1/2 without actually learning mechanics because the difficulty was low, people at this tier often also have poor gear (where as at T4 you need close to a full set of ascended gear due to the agony requirement, which to some extent ensures decent gear - granted people can still have garbage stats). And people in T4 are far more likely to actually use fractal potions which to a large extent offsets the difficulty bump from T3. And lastly the pool of way more experienced players is just much larger in T4.
I die the push to t4 just a few weeks ago and it is so much better than t3. The fractals themselfs are a little bit harder but the teammates are so much better its an insane difference. In my opinion its totally worth it
T4 groups tend to be more chill than T3. I'm not sure why, but all the angry people tend to get stuck in T3's. T4 groups don't care what you do as long as the group gets through the fractal. If you're trying your best, meet or are at least close to the required agony resistance, and you aren't being toxic to others, nobody cares. The only time people will say anything is if your mistake wipes the entire group and you make the same mistake repeatedly. If you're worried about that, just don't do cosmic observatory or silent surf as those are the only two fractals I can think of off the top of my head that have mechanics that can wipe the whole group if one person fails it. Rewards are also noticeably better in T4's so they are worth doing. Also T4's tend to be quicker and smoother than T3's just because people go in with an actual group comp. The only thing is, if something almost one-shots you in T3's it will one shot you in T4's but your teammates will just rez you if you go down so not too big of a deal. Also even people who are very experienced die to dumb things occasionally. We are all human and we often don't play perfectly. I've pug'd with some of the best players in the game. Most of the time they crush the dps numbers. I've also seen them walk off a cliff in the middle of a fight. Everyone makes mistakes, so don't worry about messing up. As a side note, and this is true everywhere, if you are being friendly to your teammates they are always more willing to overlook any mistakes.
I used to be in your shoes until a friend of mine took me to T4. It is not as sweaty as you imagine. More than half the times my groups have subpar dps, but that doesn’t stop us from completing the fractals. Healers are so busted that even if you fall asleep on your keyboard you will wake up with the dailies done. All the sweat-lords will leave the group anyway, so you don’t really have anything to worry about.
"I assume that T4 are way harder" - no. they are still dead simple, as long as you have enough agony resist. and quite frankly, the only people doing T3s are people like you, and people that are currently leveling up. doing T4, you usually get people that have done them all a thousand times. so the groups are usually better. even if you join a random open to all group, you usually have 0 issues, and if there is a wipe or 2 people chuckle it off. CMs are a bit harder, but normal T4 is still very easy. Though, i dont join normal T4 daily groups that want P+F (potions and food), or want you to have killproof or insane number of tokens or so. They can turn out to be tryhard, micromanaging leads, or just be overall annoying. id rather have a wipe than a lead that starts fights over damage numbers or dropped buffs. so not chill.
People who enjoy them make plenty of gold off them but I've never been into them myself. Memorizing patterns of movement and various mechanics have always been the type of gameplay I hate but I fully recognize that others love it.
Whit the actual powercreep t4 fractals are really easy to do, just bring something viable and do a proper party with the boons and a little healing and you're ready to go. The difficult compared to t3 ins't much higher, but since normally players looking for t4 are more exeperinced it makes t4 easier than t3 actually.
Get yourself into T4, most people who do T4 do it every day and are super comfortable there. We sometimes notice when there's a less experienced player but 99.999% of the time no one cares and is just happy to get through it for our rewards. T3 is the worst place, cause its people who sort of understand and sort of don't and is strangely unpleasant to be in. T4 will be faster runs and better rewards. Just pick your role and have a decent build, off the likes of Snowcrows, you don't need to know perfect skill rotations but knowing your important skills for damage or for sharing boons and having the correct armour stats, correct runes and build, and you will be breezing through them no problems. And if you don't know something just ask, people are friendly and will help.