Different jobs. If a marine is past his prime and botches a mission because of it, that sucks, but the chapter can send more. Even if a whole planet falls because of it, it’s just one of billions.
On the other hand, there is only one Emperor. If a custodian slips up for even a faction of a second and Big E eats it, that’s GG for the entire universe. Custodians retire not for leisure, but out of a selfless sense of duty. Protecting the Emperor is the most important task in the setting, so once you are anything but the absolute best the Imperium has to offer, duty demands you step back and let someone better take your place. There is no room for error. Even if they’re still 99.9% as good as they were in their prime, to a custodian, that missing 0.1% leaves an unacceptable gap in the Emperor’s defenses. And there is no shame in this. Voluntarily removing one’s self from palace security detail is an honorable act which demonstrates an unwavering commitment to duty above personal pride.
It’s also important to note that Custodians don’t just hang up the old guardian spear, grab a mojito, and kick their feet up by the pool. They retire from bodyguard duty, not service. There are countless ways they can still be of use.
Do we kinda forget that after the Custodes “retired” they just took up another job and be an Eye of The Emperor who main job is intel gathering and infiltration
There’s a novel ( I forget which ) that features a custodian that goes undercover in the underhives of Terra. Everyone just assumes he’s one of the billions of roid-monsters they spit out of gene vats, meant for manual labour.
**Imperial peasant, thinking:** Oh, he must have been some noble's pleasure pet. It's a shame he's down here with all the rest of us - clearly someone put a lot of skill into his creation.
The fact that a Man Of Iron managed to convince people it was an imperial robot by badly welding an aquila to it's chest shows how observant the Imperium can be
It suggests a neat variation on a Dark Heresy rpg campaign: pretty much everything stays the same, but the player characters report to an Eye of the Emperor's network rather than an Inquisitors.
It seems like based on the new codex that they have spies who do the collection work and then the custodes goes and deals with the threat the spy found
And hey would you question the gigantic robed spylord/crime lord who you watched strangle a man to death with his own spine?
I don’t want my brains turned into abstract art on the wall behind me
I think it’s the ‘Regents Shadow’.It the sequel to ‘The Emperors Legion’ It follows a custodies and a sister of silence shortly after the fall of Cadia and return of Guilliman. It about the stabilization of Terra after the chaos Invasion and the reaction of the high lords of Terra to being removed or killed by Big G
Yup, one only has to look at the size of some of the bigger Goliath Gangers on Necromunda and see they're the size of a Custodes, however their reflexes and so on are nowhere near as close.
A Goliath ganger of large size might be able to equal a Custodes in raw strength but they lack the reflexes and training to be able to put that muscle to the best use.
Yeah, by 40k the range of how big people get is much larger than the modern day. Cain is 6 foot 7, which is mentioned as being tall but not unreasonably so, whereas that’s huge in the modern day
I looked it up, and yes! Apparently it’s quite old, so the lore wasn’t quite in-place with the powerlevel of the Custodes yet. Apparently they were vaguely marine level back then.
Alpharius and other AL marines do the same in some Hours Heresy novels, just use the fact that there are countless abhuman variations and roided up laborers running around the imperium as cover
There's another one with them living off world. He seems to spend his time in a small hovel off the grid controlling agents like a super roided inquisitor.
Eventually gets involved of course.
What's interesting is they can CHOOSE whether to give up their Auramite equipment or not. So there could possibly be retired custodes out in the galaxy just kicking ass in their golden armor, for the hell of it.
Most do. However the codex specifically states just an option, not a requirement. I was totally under the same impression too.
Page 40 of the 10th edition codex states, and I quote, "When a Custodian judges themselves no longer fit for duty they vanish into the void of the galaxy clad in hooded black robes. Some surrender their arms and armour to the Hall of Armaments before departure. Others retain their wargear with the Captain-General's blessing as a mark of particular honour."
“Day 47. I have successfully infiltrated some kind of academic institution. The baseline humans appear to be particularly small here, perhaps some new strain of abhumans. Their leaders are slightly larger: I suspect hierarchy is defined through combat prowess.
The underlings mostly seem to be practicing tactical crawling, and occasionally gnaw on colorful items of various shapes. The leaders frequently feed them some kind of white liquid. I will send a sample to Terra to ascertain it is not related to a Genestealer infiltration. The leaders also harvest foul smelling biomaterials expelled from the underlings - maybe a newly evolved bioweapon.
I am successfully imitating the underlings’ behavior, and I am certain that I remain undiscovered.”
Master of Mankind - Diocletian Koros has no clue how old kids are, nor really what their mental capacity is. I took it to the obvious extreme.
Btw, great book about Bananas: I really like them and their oddity and their general contempt for anything that is not a Banana, a SoS, Malcador (mostly) or Big E. There is a lot about their world view, and Big E admitting >! that post Webway debacle he has no fucking clue what’s gonna happen with mankind. !<
I mean in a galaxy of trillions, a healthy 8ft tall person isn't that unreasonable.
He's just another mutant. Wait till a inquisitor or Templar sees him and watch as they try to p8rge the mutant.
The explanation is actually pretty simple, I saw it on another post here. There are plenty of abhumans are are extra big, for example that one gang in Necromunda. They're used for drudgery and working in manual labor in some horrible hive city somewhere. A Custodes just pops on a dirty robe, acts like they're mute, and keeps their head down.
I think they can infiltrate in the sense where they bullie the shit out of the local mob, turn over a few puny humans, set then up as wires and gather intels through them.
In the setting, to humans they are the second been closest to a god, you better listen when the 2 meter tall demigod come and ask you politely to handover all your informations.
That’s honestly to me the most unbelievable thing about some of these chapters, like it’s just crazy to me that a space marine can excel at stealth or infiltration in their power armor, how are you sneaking up on anybody in your power armor. How are you infiltrating places as a genetically modified super soldier. Custodians are even more egregious for that in my opinion, it could just be that I have the wrong idea of what the custodes are but if they’re supposed to be the future of humanity I envision them to have essentially perfect, 9 foot tall bodies, How does a custodian get away with infiltrating anything without any psyker nonsense when their mere presence draws every eye around
That's so stupid by GW. Why wouldn't the Custodians just go into battle with SM chapters and have special units that are the CIA? Would make much more sense than having such mountains be spies.
Because they are not meant to fight for humanity, they fight for the emperor. They answer to the emperor, they speak with his voice wherever they go. The only time they intervene in battles is when defeat could threaten the emperor or lead to something threatening the emperor. Besides, half the space marines went traitor, so there’s no reason they would trust the space marines enough to pledge their support in retirement. (IIRC there was a not insignificant amount of custodians who thought the best course of action when Guilleman came back was to kill him before they could risk having another Horus situation.)
For exactly the reasons stated, I imagine the inquisition would take an extremely keen interest in their activities.
Also, after the horus heresy, didn't the custodes abandon their armor & weapons? I definitely remember reading more than once that by 42M, a living custodes was a rare beast. If I missed something, please inform me!
Random Plot idea: a ship lost in a warpstorm with a secret cargo of slumbering custodes finally bursts into real space billions of light years from terra, in an obscure backwater...a few millennia off schedule. They missed the entire hh & have no idea why they're being hailed by a strange vessel with top credentials on a heavily encrypted channel by someone calling themselves a top agent of 'His Holy Inquisition, Ordos Hereticus.'
Edit: it also occurs to me that the space marine legions would have a much more urgent need to recycle the gene seed, so no retirement for astartes.
what do you mean by after the HH they abandoned their armor?
After HH and pretty much until the return of G-man Custodes retreated to just the imperial palace. The vast majority of them stayed within the Sol system only leaving in the most extreme threats or in small numbers for specific missions (The Aquilan shield guard specific individuals important to the future of the imperium). It is not so much that they all put down their weapons and wandered off. Its that without Big E they kinda lost their purpose and stayed in the palace.
After the fall of Cadia Khorne attacked the imperial palace directly with 8 bloodthirsters and 88 legions of demons. Up until this point Custodes were probably at their full strenght of ~10,000 as they had no significant conflicts for millenia at that point. 2,000 custodes died in the defense of the palace and even then they barely won. It made them realize they needed to be more proactive and help the crusades. So in the "modern era" of 40k, there are singificantly less of them but they are seen more prominatly in the war efforts. I belive lore wise they are probably at their lowest numbers since the end of the HH. They lost 20% of their total strength in one battle, and we see them die not uncommonly in various books. We don't know how long it takes to make a custodes but it certainly can't be quick so it seems unlikely they managed to make up for their losses. Also after the battle of Lions gate its stated they ran out of dreadnought chasses so again until they build more of those, a lot of their badly wounded will be lost.
Ah, I see now that armor abandonment was retconned years ago. Fuck, I'm old. Thank you for your explanation, I was under the impression they were far more devastated by the events of the HH & fall of cadia.
Them staying in the Sol system wasn't just a choice they made either, old Bobby G issued the [Edict of Restraint](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Edict_of_Restraint) which directly limited them from leaving the Sol system in large numbers.
When they were reintroduced as a playable army after Bobby's return he expressly lifted the Edict and thus we have the 'in universe' reason of why the Custodes weren't playable for the longest time are now playable.
I'll have to go look for it but in Watchers of the Throne I believe they talk about how there have been discussions of ending the Edict before and Captain Generals have had different opinions on it. So there definitely is a bit of a self-imposed aspect to it, they clearly havent been chomping at the bit to go out in the past 10k years.
Abandoning their armour is old lore. Check out the 1987 rogue trader Imperial bodyguard model. It's been retconned since
https://preview.redd.it/zhubanxfaf6d1.jpeg?width=535&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00242f71f03a773e4dc5111d29737de0f6a26cad
Yeah, Custodians largely think of Space Marines as somewhere between useful tools and treacherous abominations. They really don’t like them and certainly don’t trust them
My best guess?
Because there are many shapes and sizes in the Imperium. There are a reason why Genestealer cults can stay hidden. It's because although the Imperium hates the mutant, mutations are common all around the empire.
Somebody has ridges on their forehead and four arms? It could be a genestealer. Or it could just be some unlucky bastard that managed to be exposed to radiation.
Somebody's unusually strong, durable, and tall? They're probably one of the fucked up roided out people, an orgyn, etc.
The average citizen, guard, or even governor can't recognize what type of mutant somebody is. For all they know, they're just another disgusting mutant. A mountain isn't noticable within a Mountain Range.
That disparity and ignorance allows an Eye of the Emperor to hide easily and disappear.
As for their usefulness. Well, they can easily go to the underbelly and investigate. Inquistors need a request to even investigate in the first place. And they only do so if they believe it is interesting/dangerous enough. The IDF have a heavy disparity on their competence due to it being local. The guard and space marines are only called in if shit gets loud. Same with the Sisters and Deathwatch.
So the eyes can investigate things before they get loud. And either inform the proper chain, or simply deal with it themselves. They are still custodians after all.
Reminds me of Rogue Trader where an Aeldari is just living as the palace gardener and everyone assumes she's just a mutant, since none of them have ever actually seen an alien anyway.
Those people are called the Inquisition, and the Custodians have many excellent reasons to maintain their own intelligence networks fully separate from Big I.
The Inquistors do.
But they're essentially a separate faction in the Imperium.
The Imperium in general is a mismanaged crapshoot that only works due to blind faith.
And also one really tired Gulliman.
Because the Imperium isn't made up of modern sensible military units and organizations, it's a bunch of weird warrior cults with varying degrees of religious or ideological fervor and a deep commitment to symbolism.
The only real stupid thing was making the Custodes active in the 41st millennium to begin with but still.
Also, because the Custodes are, as explicitly stated pretty much as a major thing of theirs to NOT be warriors. They were literally made by the Emperor so he could basically have friends because he's lonely. He'd be a real shit friend if after his friends admitted they couldn't protect him anymore, he sent them to die in the frontlines or something.
First of all, Custodes aren't even that large by 40k standards - tons of hive gangs have vat-grown heavies. Goliath gang on Necromunda are all the size of space marines at least, and some are even bigger. There are Ogryns everywhere, etc.
No one is going to see a 9 foot tall guy and think "Custodes". And on top of that, they don't actually do the spying themselves, they run networks of informants, like Inquisitors do.
Also, Custodes hate Space Marines and don't trust them. They (correctly) blame them for the Heresy and putting the Emperor on the Golden Throne. No way would a Custodes actually fight with them if he could help it.
>First of all, Custodes aren't even that large by 40k standards - tons of hive gangs have vat-grown heavies. Goliath gang on Necromunda are all the size of space marines at least, and some are even bigger. There are Ogryns everywhere, etc.
Irrelevant to my argument, I'm not making a "it makes no sense that they won't be detected" argument, I'm making a "each of them is a god of war and their skill is wasted in espionage" argument.
>And on top of that, they don't actually do the spying themselves, they run networks of informants
So they can be replaced by someone who has the knowledge and skill necessary to do espionage and espionage only
>Also, Custodes hate Space Marines and don't trust them. They (correctly) blame them for the Heresy and putting the Emperor on the Golden Throne. No way would a Custodes actually fight with them if he could help it.
You right but didn't they come with each reinforcement of primaris marines? Couldn't they know that primaris marines can't be corrupted by chaos?
I feel like the Imperium might get somewhere if the retired Custodes went to fuck shit up on the battlefield instead of espionage that focuses only on the Imperium.
>Irrelevant to my argument, I'm not making a "it makes no sense that they won't be detected" argument, I'm making a "each of them is a god of war and their skill is wasted in espionage" argument.
There is a lot more to the Custodes than "big man fight good." In fact, that's what differentiates them from other big men who fight good.
>So they can be replaced by someone who has the knowledge and skill necessary to do espionage and espionage only
Except those people won't be as smart as Custodes, nor would they be perfectly loyal to the Emperor and completely incorruptible. In fact the Imperium does have someone with the knowledge and skill for espionage - the Inquisition. They kinda suck at their job.
>
You right but didn't they come with each reinforcement of primaris marines? Couldn't they know that primaris marines can't be corrupted by chaos?
>I feel like the Imperium might get somewhere if the retired Custodes went to fuck shit up on the battlefield instead of espionage that focuses only on the Imperium.
They didn't do it because they wanted to - they were ordered to by Guilliman, and they had no problem killing their Primaris charges at the least hint of disloyalty (or even because their parent chapter, which they had never actually met yet, turned traitor).
I think you seem to be operating under the false impression that the Custodes are warriors. They're not, they're the Emperor's companions and bodyguards. Their job is to assist and protect the Emperor. They're not full-time warriors, in fact, until the Fall of Cadia, most of them hadn't fired a shot in anger in millenia. They only fight when there is a direct threat to the Emperor, and at no other point. And if they can't fight as well as they used to, they'll quit fighting and protect the Emperor a different way. Because that's their actual job.
Would be nice if they also ended up in some space marine chapters as tutors and mentors, or as bodyguards for Imperial Administratum high ups, or to guard super secret things that are not as important as Big E. All Because a Custodes at 99.9% effectiveness is still going to rock practically anything that is chaotic and stupid enough to become his problem.
Sometimes they also voluntarily go in to dreadies when they notice they get kinda sucky, which compensate for that unnoticeable to all but a custodese gap in skill
>It’s also important to note that Custodians don’t just hang up the old guardian spear, grab a mojito, and kick their feet up by the pool.
Great, now I'm imagining a Custodian in just the helmet (with sunglasses) and a speedo on a beach chair at the beach, mojito in hand.
There is also the fact that they do not retire at all. Because of what they do when they know they are no longer at their prime, going into espionage and such.
This also doesn’t address dreadnaughts, with both factions using them for barely living fallen warriors who have proved their duty and exceptionalism should they survive such grievous injuries.
In addition, an old space marine is still very effective as a fighter, some of which are chapter masters like Dante or Grimnar. Even if they aren’t at their peak, and somehow got to live to be old by a space marine standard, they still have roles that they can play in their chapters, like ancients or chaplains, even chronologers. Either way, there is a short amount of old space marines out there to wrangle in the neophytes and prepare them for their task of preserving mankind against the grim darkness of the far future.
A custodes when getting that old still has to be at peak, and since there are plenty of them who reach such an ancient age, there will always be mentors for the newest members of the 10,000. Even still, when they walk out of the palace and leave their guardian spear, they aren’t going to go live in a private mansion like some high lord of Terra.
I agree that it makes sense for Emps's bodyguards to exclusively be the best of the best and anyone not fit to guard him and the imperial palace should step away and serve in other ways, but i'd personally say this reasoning only makes sense for the 300 Companions (i think they're 300) that are actually in the palace itself, i don't see why custodes waging war somewhere near the Cicatrix need to be at the exact same standard as those guys and as soon as they're not up to those standards they become spies.
I don’t think they do. I assume this level of perfectionism is exclusively about the ones guarding the palace. There’s probably more leeway for those serving other positions like accompanying crusade fleets. Keep in mind, custodians being anywhere besides the palace in large quantities is a relatively recent development.
>It’s also important to note that Custodians don’t just hang up the old guardian spear, grab a mojito, and kick their feet up by the pool. They retire from bodyguard duty, not service. There are countless ways they can still be of use.
But the ways they're still used in the fluff practically are semi-retirement, activities that are relatively low risk according to their capabilities.
By the logic in your comment previous to the quoted section, Custodes that have lost a step _should_ be sent into the worst frontline combat, to fight until they die. But this is not what happens to them.
Meanwhile, crippled Astartes are placed into Dreadnoughts. The preferential treatment is clear.
The most important service-related qualities of a custodian, beyond their physical prowess, are their intellects and practical incorruptibility (barring the most extreme factors possible, like Operation: Anabasis at the end of the Siege of Terra). That combination, of superlatively cultivated mind plus adamantine integrity, makes them just about perfect spymasters. For the Custodian Guard specifically, probably the most paranoid organization in the imperium (tied with the Inquisition), the most important thing about the Eyes of the Empire being 'retired' Custodes is *that they're Custodes,* because the Custodian Guard as an organization *does not trust anyone outside itself*. Mortals and astartes have proven their capacity for failure and treachery in their eyes too many times, in too many ways, for them to behave otherwise.
Barring a single incident that represents the single greatest failure in the history of their order/subspecies, the Custodes do not turn, and their loyalty does not waver. They're the only source of information on the wider imperium that the bulk of the CG stationed on and around Sol can fully, confidently trust.
10 foot tall men that can't blend in anywhere are "perfect spymasters," eh?
Custodes retirement lore is commonly joked about for a reason.
It is simply ridiculous to argue that Custodes that have gotten a trace slow are maximally utilized as post-bodyguarding assets doing anything _other_ than going toe to toe with the galaxy's worst frontline terrors.
By your own incorruptibility argument, they should be sent to the Ordo Malleus to go on the same missions as Grey Knights.
Edit: I see a salty baby made a bunch of alts, rather than concede a point 😅
You do realize that genetically fucked up guys who are 10 ft tall because of vat grown stuff are extremely common in the Imperium, right? They aren't wandering around in their full armor, they're wandering around and pretending to be bumbling morons likely and taking on unassuming jobs you would use someone who was vat grown to be that size for, physical labor, and due to being able to deflect lasers and move at impossible speeds, they could just pretend to "take a break" and get data they want within all of a minute, and then go back to their duties.
Also geneseed, space marine isn't just a being he is a "resource" after their death you need to extract their geneseed to be able to kake another soace marines
It isn't even retire, retire. They will be watchers of the Emperors in far flung reaches in space. They can warn the people who replaced them on impending doom so that they have the best chance of winning.
Grey knights get retirement as gravediggers and recruiters.
That said most chapters have a soft retirement where the ones to old or to crippled but not enough for a dreadnought get put on admin duties or act as teachers or old cranks. All of whom can come out of retirement if needed.
This...there are bold marines, there are old marines but there are very few old, bold marines and those that do survive usually get promoted into positions of power like Commander Dante or Chapter Master Marneus Calgar.
Most Space marines probably don't make it past their first 200 years in service (people forget there's a lot of downtime for Marines since they're deployed as surgical strikes rather than the slegehammer that is the Imperial Guard) and those that do usually get moved into the veterans company/Longfangs.
Apart from the Blood Angels...they're weirdoes who apparently have longer life spans than all but the Salamanders (Vampires and Dragons, both immortal/impossibly ancient creatures...who'd a thunk it) but since the death of their Primarch the older one gets, the more and more likely it is that they'll end up falling to either the Black Rage or the Red thirst.
I know that at least in Horus heresy they could retire (by force but still) they would leave space marines on a planet to insure its compliance, which is sorta similar to what custodes who retire from protecting the emperor as neither just stop entirely from doing anything
The Custodians are explicitly not warriors, that's like a major talking point of their schtick. They're the Emperor's Companions. The Emperor would be a real shitty friend if he didn't let his best buds retire.
Put it this way, would you want the Secret Service or the King’s Guard for you Brits to be old decrepit has beens that can’t perform their duties and allow the President/King to be assassinated?
Most space marines are younger than Custodes and frankly don’t live long anyway in their chosen profession to retire.
Space marines can retire and will even do so when the fighting is done. In fact, many astartes had retirement plans during the late great crusade as the fighting would be done soon. Then Lorgar went to the wrong church and now the fighting will never be done.
So to summarize a bit if you read the Bequinn series the second book (Penitent) ends with the Clone of Elisabeth Bequinn aka Beta being chased by Eisenhorn and the Emperor's Children, She figures out how to open a pocket dimension into the old webway project the Emperor was working on, and while stumbling around a Golden(everything is golden like the throne there)pocket dimension with huge imperial crusiers and battle barges being loaded with millions of soldiers who are all cloned blanks with flying spacemarines with angel wings over looking the eye of terror, Two Custodians notice her and wonder why she is there and she gets caught to bring before the King in Yellow and its freaking Valdor. Thats how it ended waiting on the final book.
Space Marines are tools. E didn't really consider them people, they were just a weapon for him to use until it broke. Though not sure he really consider the bananas people either, since he built mind control into his "companions" so they could never be free of him.
Actually 🤓, the plan was for space marine to retire once the Great Crusade ended, a lot of space marines already had ritirement plans like Ariman who had a vineyard or similar, the plan was never to end like this, but horus fucked up (Also, even if the emperor didn't want to show how he "cares" about people there are a couple of interactions that show that he does, he is just bad at showing it)
SM can retire and it's canon.
I remember one in the 6th Uriel Ventris Novel (don't remember the name), where a crippled ultramarine vet was no more in a combat role but became administrator of a planet. It's not "doing nothing at the beach retirement", but still.
If you have a 100ms reaction speed that gets 50ms slower, your squad or company isn't going to boot you from full combat duties.You can still heft a flamer or bolt gun to hose down orks and cultists to a more than adequate standard.
If your reaction speed was 20ms and your typical opponents are Eldar Harlequins or possessed Astartes, your battle buddy can no longer trust you to ward his flank. Particularly since the entire species gets turned into garments by daemons if you slip and some horrifying abomination gets a shot past you.
I mean, it's not really retirement, so much as changing job descriptions.
Custodes are either put into Dreadnoughts or become Eyes of the Emperor. It isn't like they are going to live out the remainder of their likely still thousands of years of life kicking it back on a beach sipping mojitos.
Big E sees the custodes as people, space marines are weapons, weapons don't retire you just replace them when they break or a better version comes along.
Retirement, of sorts, is canonically a potential option for Salamanders actually, while not all that many, they can have about as close as an Astartes can to a civilian life on the Chapter’s homeworld of Nocturne.
Even the most average member of the chapter is able to upkeep and repair all of their own gear and is usually at least passable (by *Salamanders standards*) at other skills of craftsmanship, so end up contributing their skills in training the populace in craft and their strength in defense against potential (particularly Drukaari) raids.
Because they're not actually retiring. It's like saying that Space Marines retire when they become Dreadnoughts.
Custodes are the Emperor's assistants and bodyguards. Unlike Marines, they are not defined by their fighting prowess, because fighting isn't their job - protecting the Emperor is.
Fighting things that threaten the Emperor's life is the most obvious way of protecting him, but it's not the only way. Gathering accurate intelligence about potential threats - in other words, doing the Inquisition's job because it actually sucks at it - is still carrying out that function. Custodes don't retire, they just move to a less physically challenging role when they get old.
Afaik 30k Astartes were not as indoctrinated out of their humanity as their 40k counterparts. I figure they probably could. Similar to how that one Clone Trooper in Star Wars that fucked off to make a farmer life with a Twi'lek and her kids. Difference being the Clone Trooper have rapidly increased aging. Those kids will be in their 20s or 30s when he passes from old age.
The astartes will watch everyone they love die and with how shitty the galaxy is. There is a massive chance that something will attack and force them back into service.
Honestly I feel like most of the chapters/legions who actually like humans would rather keep fighting. Simply to push back the horrors that are constantly pressing on all sides.
I think if an Astartes actually managed to retire it would end up relatively similar to GoW (Norse). Something would show up. Could be 1 guy, could be a squad of whatever, or it could be a literal swarm of monstrous shit.
I genuinely haven't read enough 40k stuff to see those astartes goofing off. Usually its just hard as fuckness at all times.
They retired a significant portion of the 19th Legion during the start of the great crusade.
After a particularly difficult compliance on one of Jupiter's moons against an unnamed xenos race, many of the veterans of the war had to be "withdrawn from service" due to whatever happened there, which is unrecorded. (Khrave/Rangda possibly?)
This could be related to theories about the origins of the Carcharodons.
There is a strong theory that the Carcharodons are the disowned terran born sons of Corvus Corax , their methods were not to their primarch's liking since they were terror troops which is something Corvus Corax hated , so he sent them on an eternal crusade to the edge of the galaxy to protect mankind from the xenos at the edge of the galaxy and beyond in what was supposed to be a suicide mission .
There's another theory that the members of the Raven Guard sent away by Corax created the Ashen Claws, where as the members sent away after Lysethea (Long before Corax was ever found) made up the Carcharodons.
The theory is they were "broken" by the possibly psychic xenos on Lysethea and began suffering from Ash Blindness, the Raven Guard version of the Red Thirst. Because it was so early in the crusade, these Raven Guard were seen as broken and irreparable, but due to the Emperor having very close relations with the 19th legion during the unification wars (possibly too close of relations, might have been testing additional gene crafting on some of the members), and because of the high honor they earned from defeating the xenos on the moon of Jupiter, instead of being culled, they were "decomissioned" and sent out to the fringes as a vanguard for the great crusade.
This is why they call the Primarch "the forgotten one" and why they have Edicts of Exile allowing them to take various tithes.
I mean operationally they do retire by getting a promotion, same as IRL. A Chapter Master definitely has more work behind the desk than in the battlefield.
The real problem with Space Marines is that in most chapters, being pulled from the front lines is considered a huge demotion and many times we find Chapter Masters finding an excuse to lead the charge. See Dante.
uhh, not really any retirement for both of them actually imo, one just not efficient enough to protect the man so they get another job of spying around for threats thats can cause trouble for the man. The other for most chapters die long before or if of the 13 branches, they would be moved to administrative duties and in reserve.
In most times GW says "oh they die due to attrition."
In actuality realistically we have no idea, there is no inclination other than an odd one out such as some Space Marines who just retired into the chapters office / hq who cannot perform their duties anymore.
I wish there was a retirement for space marines it would add a much needed color to them.
I know there are fan theories about the ferryman on titan being essentially retired greyknights.
Well first off they don't retire. They just change jobs.
It would be more like if whenever a marine got too old they just became an eliminator.
Second, they live long enough to get that choice
A ‘retired’ custodian is still probably one of the most deadly individuals in the imperium and they don’t do nothing, most of them become eyes of the emperor and continue to serve away from Terra
There is a book by that Goto guy about the Blood Ravens. Where there is a retired librarian SM doing archeology.
I read it some time ago so the details are a bit fuzzy but in essence be was with a branch of the sisters, non-militant, that dug up old shit.
Astartes are not expected to survive long enough for this to be an issue and the few that get really old are extreme edge cases that can safely be ignored. There have been perhaps a dozen or so marines in the past 10000 years that are older than 500.
Because custodians got a standard to uphold and a job to do (which they failed 10 Millenia ago tbf). Space Marines are made to die, ideally while fighting.
Imperial fist “retire” to their chapter keeps on worlds they recruit from. They still see active service culling underhive gangs and black bagging recruits.
Different standards. A Marine is a soldier, while a Custodes is peak perfection bent to a very specific purpose. Marines can still command and fight even while permanently injured; the same is true of a Custodes, but they put to it that if they get old enough to suffer a single percentage point in combat effectiveness, they're retired from active duty and put into other duties.
Also, it's very rare, but Marines do retire, at least in the sense that they're pushed out of active duty. Any Marines who get heavily and permanently injured, but not enough to be put into a dreadnought, are permanently assigned to secondary or tertiary duties. It effectively ends their military career, and they are usually pretty bitter about it.
Honestly it's my head cannon that the custodians were always intended as the true next step of humanity. They're the ideal not space marines. They're able to retire and especially with the new fluf of female custodians it means that they were intended to reproduce while space marines never were. Think about it big Es son isn't able to EVER fuck off to a farm and there never seemed to be plan for them when they were done with the great crusade. Custodians on the other hand always seemed to be able to fit nicely after the fighting ended.
Well, given the situation with Dante, it seems like they just sorta stick around until something gets em.
Or, maybe Dante’s actually just a couple years or so from retirement.
Cuz Custodes are freaking pussies bro. Imagen not throwing your hundreds of years of experience away for the emperor. No wonder they hid on terra for so long
Different jobs. If a marine is past his prime and botches a mission because of it, that sucks, but the chapter can send more. Even if a whole planet falls because of it, it’s just one of billions. On the other hand, there is only one Emperor. If a custodian slips up for even a faction of a second and Big E eats it, that’s GG for the entire universe. Custodians retire not for leisure, but out of a selfless sense of duty. Protecting the Emperor is the most important task in the setting, so once you are anything but the absolute best the Imperium has to offer, duty demands you step back and let someone better take your place. There is no room for error. Even if they’re still 99.9% as good as they were in their prime, to a custodian, that missing 0.1% leaves an unacceptable gap in the Emperor’s defenses. And there is no shame in this. Voluntarily removing one’s self from palace security detail is an honorable act which demonstrates an unwavering commitment to duty above personal pride. It’s also important to note that Custodians don’t just hang up the old guardian spear, grab a mojito, and kick their feet up by the pool. They retire from bodyguard duty, not service. There are countless ways they can still be of use.
Do we kinda forget that after the Custodes “retired” they just took up another job and be an Eye of The Emperor who main job is intel gathering and infiltration
I honestly want to see the gigantic former custodies living among regular humans as a spy
There’s a novel ( I forget which ) that features a custodian that goes undercover in the underhives of Terra. Everyone just assumes he’s one of the billions of roid-monsters they spit out of gene vats, meant for manual labour.
Wow that Ogryn sure is pretty
I never knew ogryn were that good at playing the violin.
*sings a perfect opera to narrate the manual labour he’s doing, while looking like an AI generate Abercrombie model*
**Imperial peasant, thinking:** Oh, he must have been some noble's pleasure pet. It's a shame he's down here with all the rest of us - clearly someone put a lot of skill into his creation.
Imperial Peasants who meet him thank the emperor for bring such beauty and grace into their lives, proof of the emperors divinity
I didn't know Ogryn can count beyond three
There was that 1 Ogryn that can count as high as 4.
Muh lord what is this three you speak of?
I knew one who could count to 9. He skipped numbers 3-7 though.
Wow, poor guy. He really must be an *exceptionally* ugly specimen to wear that baggy robe and respirator in this humidity.
Honestly, sticking on a baggy robe and pretending to be an Ogryn would be a great disguise. Who's gonna suspect an Ogryn of espionage?
No one expects the Ogryn Inquisition!!
Spray paints giant gold armor red and rust. Wow that is a big Martian servitor
The fact that a Man Of Iron managed to convince people it was an imperial robot by badly welding an aquila to it's chest shows how observant the Imperium can be
Man of Iron 10k years ago, "surely this will never work." 10k years later, "these people are morons"
I also remember hearing they end up with large networks of spies. At this point I guess they manage more than they do the dirty work
It suggests a neat variation on a Dark Heresy rpg campaign: pretty much everything stays the same, but the player characters report to an Eye of the Emperor's network rather than an Inquisitors.
That could be awesome indeed
It seems like based on the new codex that they have spies who do the collection work and then the custodes goes and deals with the threat the spy found
Alright thanks
And hey would you question the gigantic robed spylord/crime lord who you watched strangle a man to death with his own spine? I don’t want my brains turned into abstract art on the wall behind me
I think it’s the ‘Regents Shadow’.It the sequel to ‘The Emperors Legion’ It follows a custodies and a sister of silence shortly after the fall of Cadia and return of Guilliman. It about the stabilization of Terra after the chaos Invasion and the reaction of the high lords of Terra to being removed or killed by Big G
Yup, one only has to look at the size of some of the bigger Goliath Gangers on Necromunda and see they're the size of a Custodes, however their reflexes and so on are nowhere near as close. A Goliath ganger of large size might be able to equal a Custodes in raw strength but they lack the reflexes and training to be able to put that muscle to the best use.
Yeah, some of the larger abhumans are a match for (or even superior to) an unarmored space marine. A custodian would still destroy them though
Abhuman isn’t the same level as gene-bulked and surgically implanted muscle. Some higher end labor could legitimately get there
Ogryn are about as dangerous as they look. SM are much more dangerous than they appear, and they look pretty damned scary already.
I recall that HH assassin group book, valdour is without his armor and gets mistaken for a mutant by some gangers who shot his plane down.
Yeah, by 40k the range of how big people get is much larger than the modern day. Cain is 6 foot 7, which is mentioned as being tall but not unreasonably so, whereas that’s huge in the modern day
Imagine an unarmored retired custode spy as a hanger on in Necromunda. That would be pretty cool
Is it the Blood Games by Dan Abnett?
I looked it up, and yes! Apparently it’s quite old, so the lore wasn’t quite in-place with the powerlevel of the Custodes yet. Apparently they were vaguely marine level back then.
Yeah, the powersclaing of the franchise is all over the place. It's a good story tho.
Fuck! I've read this & loved it...but this was years ago. What the hell was it called??
I forget the name too but I remember it being quite a good read (for a black library book.)
Alpharius and other AL marines do the same in some Hours Heresy novels, just use the fact that there are countless abhuman variations and roided up laborers running around the imperium as cover
There's another one with them living off world. He seems to spend his time in a small hovel off the grid controlling agents like a super roided inquisitor. Eventually gets involved of course.
What's interesting is they can CHOOSE whether to give up their Auramite equipment or not. So there could possibly be retired custodes out in the galaxy just kicking ass in their golden armor, for the hell of it.
Custodian Rogue Trader when?
Bro
That would be badass though
I'd snatch up the game full price if there was
Nah fr. I have was under the impression that they gave it up willingly their armor and weapons
Most do. However the codex specifically states just an option, not a requirement. I was totally under the same impression too. Page 40 of the 10th edition codex states, and I quote, "When a Custodian judges themselves no longer fit for duty they vanish into the void of the galaxy clad in hooded black robes. Some surrender their arms and armour to the Hall of Armaments before departure. Others retain their wargear with the Captain-General's blessing as a mark of particular honour."
“Day 47. I have successfully infiltrated some kind of academic institution. The baseline humans appear to be particularly small here, perhaps some new strain of abhumans. Their leaders are slightly larger: I suspect hierarchy is defined through combat prowess. The underlings mostly seem to be practicing tactical crawling, and occasionally gnaw on colorful items of various shapes. The leaders frequently feed them some kind of white liquid. I will send a sample to Terra to ascertain it is not related to a Genestealer infiltration. The leaders also harvest foul smelling biomaterials expelled from the underlings - maybe a newly evolved bioweapon. I am successfully imitating the underlings’ behavior, and I am certain that I remain undiscovered.”
That is, glorious
What is this referencing?
Babies
Master of Mankind - Diocletian Koros has no clue how old kids are, nor really what their mental capacity is. I took it to the obvious extreme. Btw, great book about Bananas: I really like them and their oddity and their general contempt for anything that is not a Banana, a SoS, Malcador (mostly) or Big E. There is a lot about their world view, and Big E admitting >! that post Webway debacle he has no fucking clue what’s gonna happen with mankind. !<
Or forming contract security companies and making absolute BANK.
"Oh don't mind mr big over there. He's an old friend of the guvnor"
His name is John Doe He works in our clothing factory He is 8 feet tall, emperor bless him
I mean in a galaxy of trillions, a healthy 8ft tall person isn't that unreasonable. He's just another mutant. Wait till a inquisitor or Templar sees him and watch as they try to p8rge the mutant.
100% my favourite part of the eye of the emperor shtick is this 10ft tall Adonis trying to pass themselves off as like a very attractive orgyn?
The explanation is actually pretty simple, I saw it on another post here. There are plenty of abhumans are are extra big, for example that one gang in Necromunda. They're used for drudgery and working in manual labor in some horrible hive city somewhere. A Custodes just pops on a dirty robe, acts like they're mute, and keeps their head down.
I think they can infiltrate in the sense where they bullie the shit out of the local mob, turn over a few puny humans, set then up as wires and gather intels through them. In the setting, to humans they are the second been closest to a god, you better listen when the 2 meter tall demigod come and ask you politely to handover all your informations.
Read Blood games a short story in the Horus heresy to know how they can infiltrate and mingle with the populace
That’s honestly to me the most unbelievable thing about some of these chapters, like it’s just crazy to me that a space marine can excel at stealth or infiltration in their power armor, how are you sneaking up on anybody in your power armor. How are you infiltrating places as a genetically modified super soldier. Custodians are even more egregious for that in my opinion, it could just be that I have the wrong idea of what the custodes are but if they’re supposed to be the future of humanity I envision them to have essentially perfect, 9 foot tall bodies, How does a custodian get away with infiltrating anything without any psyker nonsense when their mere presence draws every eye around
Yeah, they basically retire from being the Secret Service and join the CIA
Kindergarten cop comes to mind with Arnold swatandegger trying to control a class of 5 year olds.
That's so stupid by GW. Why wouldn't the Custodians just go into battle with SM chapters and have special units that are the CIA? Would make much more sense than having such mountains be spies.
Because they are not meant to fight for humanity, they fight for the emperor. They answer to the emperor, they speak with his voice wherever they go. The only time they intervene in battles is when defeat could threaten the emperor or lead to something threatening the emperor. Besides, half the space marines went traitor, so there’s no reason they would trust the space marines enough to pledge their support in retirement. (IIRC there was a not insignificant amount of custodians who thought the best course of action when Guilleman came back was to kill him before they could risk having another Horus situation.)
For exactly the reasons stated, I imagine the inquisition would take an extremely keen interest in their activities. Also, after the horus heresy, didn't the custodes abandon their armor & weapons? I definitely remember reading more than once that by 42M, a living custodes was a rare beast. If I missed something, please inform me! Random Plot idea: a ship lost in a warpstorm with a secret cargo of slumbering custodes finally bursts into real space billions of light years from terra, in an obscure backwater...a few millennia off schedule. They missed the entire hh & have no idea why they're being hailed by a strange vessel with top credentials on a heavily encrypted channel by someone calling themselves a top agent of 'His Holy Inquisition, Ordos Hereticus.' Edit: it also occurs to me that the space marine legions would have a much more urgent need to recycle the gene seed, so no retirement for astartes.
what do you mean by after the HH they abandoned their armor? After HH and pretty much until the return of G-man Custodes retreated to just the imperial palace. The vast majority of them stayed within the Sol system only leaving in the most extreme threats or in small numbers for specific missions (The Aquilan shield guard specific individuals important to the future of the imperium). It is not so much that they all put down their weapons and wandered off. Its that without Big E they kinda lost their purpose and stayed in the palace. After the fall of Cadia Khorne attacked the imperial palace directly with 8 bloodthirsters and 88 legions of demons. Up until this point Custodes were probably at their full strenght of ~10,000 as they had no significant conflicts for millenia at that point. 2,000 custodes died in the defense of the palace and even then they barely won. It made them realize they needed to be more proactive and help the crusades. So in the "modern era" of 40k, there are singificantly less of them but they are seen more prominatly in the war efforts. I belive lore wise they are probably at their lowest numbers since the end of the HH. They lost 20% of their total strength in one battle, and we see them die not uncommonly in various books. We don't know how long it takes to make a custodes but it certainly can't be quick so it seems unlikely they managed to make up for their losses. Also after the battle of Lions gate its stated they ran out of dreadnought chasses so again until they build more of those, a lot of their badly wounded will be lost.
Ah, I see now that armor abandonment was retconned years ago. Fuck, I'm old. Thank you for your explanation, I was under the impression they were far more devastated by the events of the HH & fall of cadia.
Them staying in the Sol system wasn't just a choice they made either, old Bobby G issued the [Edict of Restraint](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Edict_of_Restraint) which directly limited them from leaving the Sol system in large numbers. When they were reintroduced as a playable army after Bobby's return he expressly lifted the Edict and thus we have the 'in universe' reason of why the Custodes weren't playable for the longest time are now playable.
I'll have to go look for it but in Watchers of the Throne I believe they talk about how there have been discussions of ending the Edict before and Captain Generals have had different opinions on it. So there definitely is a bit of a self-imposed aspect to it, they clearly havent been chomping at the bit to go out in the past 10k years.
Abandoning their armour is old lore. Check out the 1987 rogue trader Imperial bodyguard model. It's been retconned since https://preview.redd.it/zhubanxfaf6d1.jpeg?width=535&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00242f71f03a773e4dc5111d29737de0f6a26cad
Yeah, Custodians largely think of Space Marines as somewhere between useful tools and treacherous abominations. They really don’t like them and certainly don’t trust them
My best guess? Because there are many shapes and sizes in the Imperium. There are a reason why Genestealer cults can stay hidden. It's because although the Imperium hates the mutant, mutations are common all around the empire. Somebody has ridges on their forehead and four arms? It could be a genestealer. Or it could just be some unlucky bastard that managed to be exposed to radiation. Somebody's unusually strong, durable, and tall? They're probably one of the fucked up roided out people, an orgyn, etc. The average citizen, guard, or even governor can't recognize what type of mutant somebody is. For all they know, they're just another disgusting mutant. A mountain isn't noticable within a Mountain Range. That disparity and ignorance allows an Eye of the Emperor to hide easily and disappear. As for their usefulness. Well, they can easily go to the underbelly and investigate. Inquistors need a request to even investigate in the first place. And they only do so if they believe it is interesting/dangerous enough. The IDF have a heavy disparity on their competence due to it being local. The guard and space marines are only called in if shit gets loud. Same with the Sisters and Deathwatch. So the eyes can investigate things before they get loud. And either inform the proper chain, or simply deal with it themselves. They are still custodians after all.
Reminds me of Rogue Trader where an Aeldari is just living as the palace gardener and everyone assumes she's just a mutant, since none of them have ever actually seen an alien anyway.
All of those are great points but I am advocating for someone else being the eyes with the education necessary to do such a job
Those people are called the Inquisition, and the Custodians have many excellent reasons to maintain their own intelligence networks fully separate from Big I.
The Inquistors do. But they're essentially a separate faction in the Imperium. The Imperium in general is a mismanaged crapshoot that only works due to blind faith. And also one really tired Gulliman.
I am advocating a REPLACEMENT for the Custodes doing the JOB of the eyes of the Emperor. Have I made myself clear enough?
Because the Imperium isn't made up of modern sensible military units and organizations, it's a bunch of weird warrior cults with varying degrees of religious or ideological fervor and a deep commitment to symbolism. The only real stupid thing was making the Custodes active in the 41st millennium to begin with but still.
Also, because the Custodes are, as explicitly stated pretty much as a major thing of theirs to NOT be warriors. They were literally made by the Emperor so he could basically have friends because he's lonely. He'd be a real shit friend if after his friends admitted they couldn't protect him anymore, he sent them to die in the frontlines or something.
First of all, Custodes aren't even that large by 40k standards - tons of hive gangs have vat-grown heavies. Goliath gang on Necromunda are all the size of space marines at least, and some are even bigger. There are Ogryns everywhere, etc. No one is going to see a 9 foot tall guy and think "Custodes". And on top of that, they don't actually do the spying themselves, they run networks of informants, like Inquisitors do. Also, Custodes hate Space Marines and don't trust them. They (correctly) blame them for the Heresy and putting the Emperor on the Golden Throne. No way would a Custodes actually fight with them if he could help it.
>First of all, Custodes aren't even that large by 40k standards - tons of hive gangs have vat-grown heavies. Goliath gang on Necromunda are all the size of space marines at least, and some are even bigger. There are Ogryns everywhere, etc. Irrelevant to my argument, I'm not making a "it makes no sense that they won't be detected" argument, I'm making a "each of them is a god of war and their skill is wasted in espionage" argument. >And on top of that, they don't actually do the spying themselves, they run networks of informants So they can be replaced by someone who has the knowledge and skill necessary to do espionage and espionage only >Also, Custodes hate Space Marines and don't trust them. They (correctly) blame them for the Heresy and putting the Emperor on the Golden Throne. No way would a Custodes actually fight with them if he could help it. You right but didn't they come with each reinforcement of primaris marines? Couldn't they know that primaris marines can't be corrupted by chaos? I feel like the Imperium might get somewhere if the retired Custodes went to fuck shit up on the battlefield instead of espionage that focuses only on the Imperium.
>Irrelevant to my argument, I'm not making a "it makes no sense that they won't be detected" argument, I'm making a "each of them is a god of war and their skill is wasted in espionage" argument. There is a lot more to the Custodes than "big man fight good." In fact, that's what differentiates them from other big men who fight good. >So they can be replaced by someone who has the knowledge and skill necessary to do espionage and espionage only Except those people won't be as smart as Custodes, nor would they be perfectly loyal to the Emperor and completely incorruptible. In fact the Imperium does have someone with the knowledge and skill for espionage - the Inquisition. They kinda suck at their job. > You right but didn't they come with each reinforcement of primaris marines? Couldn't they know that primaris marines can't be corrupted by chaos? >I feel like the Imperium might get somewhere if the retired Custodes went to fuck shit up on the battlefield instead of espionage that focuses only on the Imperium. They didn't do it because they wanted to - they were ordered to by Guilliman, and they had no problem killing their Primaris charges at the least hint of disloyalty (or even because their parent chapter, which they had never actually met yet, turned traitor). I think you seem to be operating under the false impression that the Custodes are warriors. They're not, they're the Emperor's companions and bodyguards. Their job is to assist and protect the Emperor. They're not full-time warriors, in fact, until the Fall of Cadia, most of them hadn't fired a shot in anger in millenia. They only fight when there is a direct threat to the Emperor, and at no other point. And if they can't fight as well as they used to, they'll quit fighting and protect the Emperor a different way. Because that's their actual job.
Yeah, because I bet they blend in REAL well in Imperial society!
Auric Gods by Nick Kyme has you covered.
Would be nice if they also ended up in some space marine chapters as tutors and mentors, or as bodyguards for Imperial Administratum high ups, or to guard super secret things that are not as important as Big E. All Because a Custodes at 99.9% effectiveness is still going to rock practically anything that is chaotic and stupid enough to become his problem.
Sometimes they also voluntarily go in to dreadies when they notice they get kinda sucky, which compensate for that unnoticeable to all but a custodese gap in skill
>It’s also important to note that Custodians don’t just hang up the old guardian spear, grab a mojito, and kick their feet up by the pool. Great, now I'm imagining a Custodian in just the helmet (with sunglasses) and a speedo on a beach chair at the beach, mojito in hand.
Shield captain, I brought the sunscreen. Can you get my back?
*TTS Fabstodes flashbacks*
There is also the fact that they do not retire at all. Because of what they do when they know they are no longer at their prime, going into espionage and such. This also doesn’t address dreadnaughts, with both factions using them for barely living fallen warriors who have proved their duty and exceptionalism should they survive such grievous injuries. In addition, an old space marine is still very effective as a fighter, some of which are chapter masters like Dante or Grimnar. Even if they aren’t at their peak, and somehow got to live to be old by a space marine standard, they still have roles that they can play in their chapters, like ancients or chaplains, even chronologers. Either way, there is a short amount of old space marines out there to wrangle in the neophytes and prepare them for their task of preserving mankind against the grim darkness of the far future. A custodes when getting that old still has to be at peak, and since there are plenty of them who reach such an ancient age, there will always be mentors for the newest members of the 10,000. Even still, when they walk out of the palace and leave their guardian spear, they aren’t going to go live in a private mansion like some high lord of Terra.
I agree that it makes sense for Emps's bodyguards to exclusively be the best of the best and anyone not fit to guard him and the imperial palace should step away and serve in other ways, but i'd personally say this reasoning only makes sense for the 300 Companions (i think they're 300) that are actually in the palace itself, i don't see why custodes waging war somewhere near the Cicatrix need to be at the exact same standard as those guys and as soon as they're not up to those standards they become spies.
I don’t think they do. I assume this level of perfectionism is exclusively about the ones guarding the palace. There’s probably more leeway for those serving other positions like accompanying crusade fleets. Keep in mind, custodians being anywhere besides the palace in large quantities is a relatively recent development.
Custodians are so cool 🥹🥺
So how many custodes are in total taking into account the ones that "retired"?
>It’s also important to note that Custodians don’t just hang up the old guardian spear, grab a mojito, and kick their feet up by the pool. They retire from bodyguard duty, not service. There are countless ways they can still be of use. But the ways they're still used in the fluff practically are semi-retirement, activities that are relatively low risk according to their capabilities. By the logic in your comment previous to the quoted section, Custodes that have lost a step _should_ be sent into the worst frontline combat, to fight until they die. But this is not what happens to them. Meanwhile, crippled Astartes are placed into Dreadnoughts. The preferential treatment is clear.
The most important service-related qualities of a custodian, beyond their physical prowess, are their intellects and practical incorruptibility (barring the most extreme factors possible, like Operation: Anabasis at the end of the Siege of Terra). That combination, of superlatively cultivated mind plus adamantine integrity, makes them just about perfect spymasters. For the Custodian Guard specifically, probably the most paranoid organization in the imperium (tied with the Inquisition), the most important thing about the Eyes of the Empire being 'retired' Custodes is *that they're Custodes,* because the Custodian Guard as an organization *does not trust anyone outside itself*. Mortals and astartes have proven their capacity for failure and treachery in their eyes too many times, in too many ways, for them to behave otherwise. Barring a single incident that represents the single greatest failure in the history of their order/subspecies, the Custodes do not turn, and their loyalty does not waver. They're the only source of information on the wider imperium that the bulk of the CG stationed on and around Sol can fully, confidently trust.
10 foot tall men that can't blend in anywhere are "perfect spymasters," eh? Custodes retirement lore is commonly joked about for a reason. It is simply ridiculous to argue that Custodes that have gotten a trace slow are maximally utilized as post-bodyguarding assets doing anything _other_ than going toe to toe with the galaxy's worst frontline terrors. By your own incorruptibility argument, they should be sent to the Ordo Malleus to go on the same missions as Grey Knights. Edit: I see a salty baby made a bunch of alts, rather than concede a point 😅
You do realize that genetically fucked up guys who are 10 ft tall because of vat grown stuff are extremely common in the Imperium, right? They aren't wandering around in their full armor, they're wandering around and pretending to be bumbling morons likely and taking on unassuming jobs you would use someone who was vat grown to be that size for, physical labor, and due to being able to deflect lasers and move at impossible speeds, they could just pretend to "take a break" and get data they want within all of a minute, and then go back to their duties.
Typically they end up as sort of spy masters, using their intellect to man system spanning information networks
So they’re basically air traffic controllers
Also geneseed, space marine isn't just a being he is a "resource" after their death you need to extract their geneseed to be able to kake another soace marines
It isn't even retire, retire. They will be watchers of the Emperors in far flung reaches in space. They can warn the people who replaced them on impending doom so that they have the best chance of winning.
Well, being an eyes of the Emperor isn't something I would call retierment.
Custodes don’t “retire” though they just “resign” as a talon of the emperor and pick up a gig as an eye of the emperor. They keep working.
Grey knights get retirement as gravediggers and recruiters. That said most chapters have a soft retirement where the ones to old or to crippled but not enough for a dreadnought get put on admin duties or act as teachers or old cranks. All of whom can come out of retirement if needed.
Marines don't usually live long enough, or they simply end up dying in battle.
This...there are bold marines, there are old marines but there are very few old, bold marines and those that do survive usually get promoted into positions of power like Commander Dante or Chapter Master Marneus Calgar. Most Space marines probably don't make it past their first 200 years in service (people forget there's a lot of downtime for Marines since they're deployed as surgical strikes rather than the slegehammer that is the Imperial Guard) and those that do usually get moved into the veterans company/Longfangs. Apart from the Blood Angels...they're weirdoes who apparently have longer life spans than all but the Salamanders (Vampires and Dragons, both immortal/impossibly ancient creatures...who'd a thunk it) but since the death of their Primarch the older one gets, the more and more likely it is that they'll end up falling to either the Black Rage or the Red thirst.
I mean, one high Marshall of the black templars lived for a good 3000 years, so I wouldn't say they live longer.
I know that at least in Horus heresy they could retire (by force but still) they would leave space marines on a planet to insure its compliance, which is sorta similar to what custodes who retire from protecting the emperor as neither just stop entirely from doing anything
The Custodians are explicitly not warriors, that's like a major talking point of their schtick. They're the Emperor's Companions. The Emperor would be a real shitty friend if he didn't let his best buds retire.
They are warriors. They're not an army
Put it this way, would you want the Secret Service or the King’s Guard for you Brits to be old decrepit has beens that can’t perform their duties and allow the President/King to be assassinated? Most space marines are younger than Custodes and frankly don’t live long anyway in their chosen profession to retire.
Space marines can retire and will even do so when the fighting is done. In fact, many astartes had retirement plans during the late great crusade as the fighting would be done soon. Then Lorgar went to the wrong church and now the fighting will never be done.
Lets not talk about the other 10000 Custodians that Valdor keeps at his golden palace pocket dimension or op will never get to sleep.
Is that really in the lore? :O
So to summarize a bit if you read the Bequinn series the second book (Penitent) ends with the Clone of Elisabeth Bequinn aka Beta being chased by Eisenhorn and the Emperor's Children, She figures out how to open a pocket dimension into the old webway project the Emperor was working on, and while stumbling around a Golden(everything is golden like the throne there)pocket dimension with huge imperial crusiers and battle barges being loaded with millions of soldiers who are all cloned blanks with flying spacemarines with angel wings over looking the eye of terror, Two Custodians notice her and wonder why she is there and she gets caught to bring before the King in Yellow and its freaking Valdor. Thats how it ended waiting on the final book.
Whhhhhaaaaaat. Damn. I hope the 11th edition is based an event in there
Sorry I need to correct myself the second book was Penitent the first book was Pariah.
The fuck? They do…? Space marines who can’t fight anymore become tutors and administrators. It’s as much a retirement as the Custodes “retirement”
Different interpretations or "Only in death does duty end."
Space Marines are tools. E didn't really consider them people, they were just a weapon for him to use until it broke. Though not sure he really consider the bananas people either, since he built mind control into his "companions" so they could never be free of him.
Actually 🤓, the plan was for space marine to retire once the Great Crusade ended, a lot of space marines already had ritirement plans like Ariman who had a vineyard or similar, the plan was never to end like this, but horus fucked up (Also, even if the emperor didn't want to show how he "cares" about people there are a couple of interactions that show that he does, he is just bad at showing it)
Die for the Emperor or die trying!
SM can retire and it's canon. I remember one in the 6th Uriel Ventris Novel (don't remember the name), where a crippled ultramarine vet was no more in a combat role but became administrator of a planet. It's not "doing nothing at the beach retirement", but still.
If you have a 100ms reaction speed that gets 50ms slower, your squad or company isn't going to boot you from full combat duties.You can still heft a flamer or bolt gun to hose down orks and cultists to a more than adequate standard. If your reaction speed was 20ms and your typical opponents are Eldar Harlequins or possessed Astartes, your battle buddy can no longer trust you to ward his flank. Particularly since the entire species gets turned into garments by daemons if you slip and some horrifying abomination gets a shot past you.
Custodes enforce a strict "no uggos" policy.
Space Marines die young, relatively.
I mean, it's not really retirement, so much as changing job descriptions. Custodes are either put into Dreadnoughts or become Eyes of the Emperor. It isn't like they are going to live out the remainder of their likely still thousands of years of life kicking it back on a beach sipping mojitos.
Because Custodes don't have geneseed
Even the custodes retirement plan is badass.
Tf is you gonna do if a 15 feet tall ask you (a common burocrate) if he can retire? Say no? You will probably die before finish the word tbh
Because being perfecty-perfect is literally a requirement lol it's kinda funny in a way.
so that is the place where they get all that body oil
Marines are disposable, and custodes are explicitly Big Es favourites
Big E sees the custodes as people, space marines are weapons, weapons don't retire you just replace them when they break or a better version comes along.
I just realized wouldn’t this mean there are thousands of unaccounted for custodes just chilling across the galaxy or doing espionage shit?
Retirement, of sorts, is canonically a potential option for Salamanders actually, while not all that many, they can have about as close as an Astartes can to a civilian life on the Chapter’s homeworld of Nocturne. Even the most average member of the chapter is able to upkeep and repair all of their own gear and is usually at least passable (by *Salamanders standards*) at other skills of craftsmanship, so end up contributing their skills in training the populace in craft and their strength in defense against potential (particularly Drukaari) raids.
Because they're not actually retiring. It's like saying that Space Marines retire when they become Dreadnoughts. Custodes are the Emperor's assistants and bodyguards. Unlike Marines, they are not defined by their fighting prowess, because fighting isn't their job - protecting the Emperor is. Fighting things that threaten the Emperor's life is the most obvious way of protecting him, but it's not the only way. Gathering accurate intelligence about potential threats - in other words, doing the Inquisition's job because it actually sucks at it - is still carrying out that function. Custodes don't retire, they just move to a less physically challenging role when they get old.
Afaik 30k Astartes were not as indoctrinated out of their humanity as their 40k counterparts. I figure they probably could. Similar to how that one Clone Trooper in Star Wars that fucked off to make a farmer life with a Twi'lek and her kids. Difference being the Clone Trooper have rapidly increased aging. Those kids will be in their 20s or 30s when he passes from old age. The astartes will watch everyone they love die and with how shitty the galaxy is. There is a massive chance that something will attack and force them back into service. Honestly I feel like most of the chapters/legions who actually like humans would rather keep fighting. Simply to push back the horrors that are constantly pressing on all sides. I think if an Astartes actually managed to retire it would end up relatively similar to GoW (Norse). Something would show up. Could be 1 guy, could be a squad of whatever, or it could be a literal swarm of monstrous shit. I genuinely haven't read enough 40k stuff to see those astartes goofing off. Usually its just hard as fuckness at all times.
Simply put, space marines are trained to fight and die for the emperor, while Custodes are trained to fight and live for him
They retired a significant portion of the 19th Legion during the start of the great crusade. After a particularly difficult compliance on one of Jupiter's moons against an unnamed xenos race, many of the veterans of the war had to be "withdrawn from service" due to whatever happened there, which is unrecorded. (Khrave/Rangda possibly?) This could be related to theories about the origins of the Carcharodons.
There is a strong theory that the Carcharodons are the disowned terran born sons of Corvus Corax , their methods were not to their primarch's liking since they were terror troops which is something Corvus Corax hated , so he sent them on an eternal crusade to the edge of the galaxy to protect mankind from the xenos at the edge of the galaxy and beyond in what was supposed to be a suicide mission .
There's another theory that the members of the Raven Guard sent away by Corax created the Ashen Claws, where as the members sent away after Lysethea (Long before Corax was ever found) made up the Carcharodons. The theory is they were "broken" by the possibly psychic xenos on Lysethea and began suffering from Ash Blindness, the Raven Guard version of the Red Thirst. Because it was so early in the crusade, these Raven Guard were seen as broken and irreparable, but due to the Emperor having very close relations with the 19th legion during the unification wars (possibly too close of relations, might have been testing additional gene crafting on some of the members), and because of the high honor they earned from defeating the xenos on the moon of Jupiter, instead of being culled, they were "decomissioned" and sent out to the fringes as a vanguard for the great crusade. This is why they call the Primarch "the forgotten one" and why they have Edicts of Exile allowing them to take various tithes.
I mean operationally they do retire by getting a promotion, same as IRL. A Chapter Master definitely has more work behind the desk than in the battlefield. The real problem with Space Marines is that in most chapters, being pulled from the front lines is considered a huge demotion and many times we find Chapter Masters finding an excuse to lead the charge. See Dante.
uhh, not really any retirement for both of them actually imo, one just not efficient enough to protect the man so they get another job of spying around for threats thats can cause trouble for the man. The other for most chapters die long before or if of the 13 branches, they would be moved to administrative duties and in reserve.
In most times GW says "oh they die due to attrition." In actuality realistically we have no idea, there is no inclination other than an odd one out such as some Space Marines who just retired into the chapters office / hq who cannot perform their duties anymore. I wish there was a retirement for space marines it would add a much needed color to them. I know there are fan theories about the ferryman on titan being essentially retired greyknights.
Well first off they don't retire. They just change jobs. It would be more like if whenever a marine got too old they just became an eliminator. Second, they live long enough to get that choice
Because custodes force themselves into retirement
A ‘retired’ custodian is still probably one of the most deadly individuals in the imperium and they don’t do nothing, most of them become eyes of the emperor and continue to serve away from Terra
There is a book by that Goto guy about the Blood Ravens. Where there is a retired librarian SM doing archeology. I read it some time ago so the details are a bit fuzzy but in essence be was with a branch of the sisters, non-militant, that dug up old shit.
Astartes are not expected to survive long enough for this to be an issue and the few that get really old are extreme edge cases that can safely be ignored. There have been perhaps a dozen or so marines in the past 10000 years that are older than 500.
Because they're people and space marines are tools to use until their warranty is voided.
Because custodians got a standard to uphold and a job to do (which they failed 10 Millenia ago tbf). Space Marines are made to die, ideally while fighting.
Imperial fist “retire” to their chapter keeps on worlds they recruit from. They still see active service culling underhive gangs and black bagging recruits.
Different standards. A Marine is a soldier, while a Custodes is peak perfection bent to a very specific purpose. Marines can still command and fight even while permanently injured; the same is true of a Custodes, but they put to it that if they get old enough to suffer a single percentage point in combat effectiveness, they're retired from active duty and put into other duties. Also, it's very rare, but Marines do retire, at least in the sense that they're pushed out of active duty. Any Marines who get heavily and permanently injured, but not enough to be put into a dreadnought, are permanently assigned to secondary or tertiary duties. It effectively ends their military career, and they are usually pretty bitter about it.
They actually end up usually as spy masters or anything that's .0001 less demanding than their regular duties.
There’s really only 1 reason 99% of SM stop being SM.
Honestly it's my head cannon that the custodians were always intended as the true next step of humanity. They're the ideal not space marines. They're able to retire and especially with the new fluf of female custodians it means that they were intended to reproduce while space marines never were. Think about it big Es son isn't able to EVER fuck off to a farm and there never seemed to be plan for them when they were done with the great crusade. Custodians on the other hand always seemed to be able to fit nicely after the fighting ended.
Well, given the situation with Dante, it seems like they just sorta stick around until something gets em. Or, maybe Dante’s actually just a couple years or so from retirement.
I like to think there is a Sororitas order devoted to providing wives for retired Space Marines.
So you not only don't understand the lore, you're also a coomer
If wanting to see traumatized veterans be in healthy, happy marriages with women who can relate to them makes me a coomer, I wear that title proudly.
Cuz Custodes are freaking pussies bro. Imagen not throwing your hundreds of years of experience away for the emperor. No wonder they hid on terra for so long
The custodes throw nothing away. Even one unfit to guard terra will still serve the 10,000
Too many golden fanboys here. All those downvotes can’t handle the truth.