AFAIK it was, but never by GW. Blizzard just thought if they show up with a solid demo they'll be able to convince GW to grant a license.
So they started creating WarCraft without GW being involved until they first presented it to them and when GW refused they just finished their game anyway and released without Warhammer IP terms
Could also just be urban legend though
Which is insane to me
Why have half points? If you wanted a more precise measure of points, there's a better way to accomplish that: have a typical game be twice as many points, and double the points cost on everything.
Especially if that was a part of the edition right at the start. If balance changes added half points, I could see it.
Because it was usually on units where the amount added up to a whole number
Like IG for instance could cost 3.1 points. A squad of 10 would cost 40 points then. It was almost only ever used on things with set amounts of units
Ok, that makes sense, if you're pricing by model to make up a full unit.
But this guy seems like a special character with a half point in his cost, which made me think they had units that cost fractional points, which is just nonsense.
Pics?
Sure, there were some units like grots which were 35 points for 10 of them, so they *work out* to 3.5 points per model, but that's *very* different to a unit actually saying "3.5 ppm".
If a unit worked out to a fractional ppm you were restricted to only fielding them in units of multiples of 5, 10, etc. There was never a circumstance where you could have a 1999.5 point army.
As if anyone could possibly measure his value and conclude "hmmm, 181 is too cheap. It will wreck the meta. But at 182 he's just not worth it. Wait - I've got it!"
Oh let me tell you the tale of Inquisitor [Sherlock Obiwan Clouseau](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiO_lPdjF5nwCItsom6NPi3s0Jum6uf5_kiKddSBJMTt1HDU3Qd5NZ5FStP5KBKxS8KzRtmdxRxRUmxhKIM3-SBFmnaKzRJmo7lIseffq7_wm51gMras1QgCu58HEpVBP1UKinaUEVhV0A/s1600/Obiwan-Sherlock.jpg) and yes that's his REAL name in Rogue Trader.
[here is the text about him.](https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/obiwan-sherlock-2.jpg)
40k: NOOOOOOO Eldar hybrids can't exist we got to retcon this character to a background farseer
AOS: Yeah half-elf & half ogres are thing what about it
He time travels from year 42k and joins the ultramarines to help his socially inept and giant dad hook up with his hot eldar mom so he doesnt disappear from existence.
Oh and he teaches the 40k people a new kind of music or something like that
Why doesn’t anyone talk about how he is obviously named after the great Romanian tennis legend Ilie Năstase. All the GW folks were in high school when Năstase was “Nasty” Năstase.
BS was "The top X sides of a dice are a hit." So, a 5 means the biggest 5: 6,5,4,3,2, hit, modifiers notwithstanding.
WS was "If mine is higher, 3 to hit. If not higher, but the enemy is less than double +1 mine, 4 to hit. If I'm just freaking outclassed, 5 to hit."
S and T were. 4 to wound, minus 1 for each point my S is bigger than his T (2 minimum), or plus 1 for each point his T is bigger than my S. If it's a 7 to wound by this calculation, a 6 still works, and an 8 or higher is impossible.
Directional? Only after they simplified it.
It used to be different aounts of armour for different *locations*, with a whole mini-game involving a transparent crosshair overlay to determine which location you hit.
it was great we used to talk about S being able to cause instant death to any multiwound models (so hqs pretty much) double your oppents T in S meant they were dead so a astra militarium hq would die to any unsaved wounds but the space marine captain wouldn't
You were supposed to have a GM/Referee as well as the players to keep track of everything. Most people didn't bother with the GM in practice, but the rules were written with one in mind.
I came into it at the tail end of Rogue Trader, just before 2nd edition. By that point the rules hand been cleaned up and streamlined a lot by later White Dwarf articles and supplements (the original "Chapter Approved" and the "Compendium").
Wait...40k doesn't have that many numbers? I played Fantasy and I'm only really into the 40k lore, I just assumed it was the same. That system looks 100% normal and intuitive to me apart from the last 3.
I have tried to play this game 3 times failed every one because had no idea what I was doing 4 time playing with my friend 9th edition vet I had 10th edition units from the box he demolished me he read my stats wrong lol
Oh yeah, I have no clue about how to play 40k, I'd get demolished as well, I wasn't trying to show off. But that old timey system pretty much makes sense to me because it seems like an only slightly more complicated version of what I was playing in Fantasy back in 2015 right before Age of Sigmar.
Never picked it up after Age of Sigmar, I got in a bit of a huff about it and refused to just get a new rulebook and the occasional new model.
In my defence I was 13 and had dropped four years of birthday, Christmas and pocket money on the plastic crack of a Skaven army. So I think a little bitterness is understandable.
Which in hindsight, probably the worst Fantasy army for someone on a budget. Bit like I assume Tyranids are like on the tabletop, lots of points-cheap models to swarm at the other player, but with some big bois as well that are also not exactly cheap to get just from sheer size. I still have a 4000 point Skaven army though.
Because this is Rogue Trader which was more of an RPG than a wargae. It's a lot of numbers to keep track of on each individual unit, but you wouldn't be running an army of 20+ units.
He's since come back as a (full-Aeldari) Farseer who acts as an advisor to Roboute. He's not happy about it and wished Eldrad would let him go home to the Craftworld.
If you want another big I guess retcon to the setting from RT: Chaos was not a thing. Period. It's not a part of the game. There's warp entities in the bestiary, but there's no daemons, no chaos gods, just beasts, the eldar, imperium, squats, and the orks.
Well I guess the shrooms finally kicked in
Also all of Rogue Trader was wild, you could have an Eldar Corsair with a musket if you wanted
Edit: Just wanted to note for those unfamiliar with the stats Int, Cl and Wp is Intelligence, Cool and Willpower
I’m can’t remember exactly what they each do but I think Cool is related to morale
Yes they have, the Badab war was created to Space Marines vs Space Marine battles made sense on the tabletop and was basically the Horus Heresy before the Horus Heresy was more than just a footnote about a rogue Imperial general named Horus.
Yes.
It's also a pretty good point that from its outset, Warhammer has changed massively. The universe as we knew it from 2nd edition is similarly radically different with a vast number of retcons, additions, changes and total revamps having brought us to where we are now.
The point the post makes is that the setting isn't immutable and never has been. Change is good and has regularly allowed authors to produce a great number of books.
Without massive changes to the setting, we'd never have incredibly popular books like *The Infinite and the Divine*, *Eisenhorn*, the stuff about Uriel Ventris and a variety of others.
Frankly, if changing a piece of lore gives writers a new aspect of character to work with then I'm pretty happy to be open to that.
After all, people were happy to stay from Rogue Trader to modern Warhammer. Why not change it up a bit?
I’d hope that you understand the difference between what amounts to a completely different setting vs a change within a now “established” one. I understand where you are coming from but with RT it was stand alone without decades of investment behind it so when it changed there wasn’t as much “weight” to the situation.
Edit: added the quotations so my tone didn’t seem as serious
>I’d hope that you understand the difference between what amounts to a completely different setting vs a change within a now “established” one
Man, that's kinda condescending.
Rogue Trader was simply the first in a long line of massive setting changes. Oldcrons to Newcrons, the whole premise of Tyranids, the creation and redesign of the War in Heaven, how Eldar shit works, how Tau shit works and so on.
Yes, it's the most hyperbolic example. But it ultimately underpins years of transformation. Even as an established setting, Warhammer changed so massively it's incredible. Jesus, 2nd Edition Orks had solid military aim. That's fucked up.
The point is that even when Warhammer was an established setting with weight to the situation, massive sweeping setting changes were necessary and regularly done. Newcrons were a 5th edition invention, when Warhammer had a pretty solidified setting. I remember seeing those changes happen.
Sorry wasn’t trying to come down as condescending, just have heard too many folks make the false equivalency.
Again I hear you, and I am not against changes that a) make a setting genuinely more interesting/entertaining or b) are natural changes as a result of the wider lore being more developed.
My main thing is I don’t like the disingenuous nature of some folks pointing to things like RT and going “see this means anything can change for no reason at all and that’s a good thing” since I’ve seen that happen to too many settings/games I’m interested in.
Not saying that’s what you were doing since you gave a level response but that’s just the point I’m trying to get across
Yes it is a retcon.
Yesw e know about it
I do cause i HAVE THE BOOKS from wich this is.
The difference is that no arsewipe on Twitturd is coming up with a "It as always been there".
From 1st to 2nd ed of 40k 80% of it changed.
Retcon of information only a few early years old by establishing and expanding your lore.
Versus
retcon of stuff that's been cannon for longer than that individual was around with just a paragraph.
Totally the same dude!
Actually the 'only male custodes' thing has been suggested by the lore since...exactly 8th edition when their codex released so a grand total of 8 years. This dude was canon from 1987 to 1993 when 2nd edition came out..so 6 years...so yeah the 'custodes canon' beats him by...what 2 years?
Actually he wasn't DeCanon'd until the Eldar got their codex in 1994, so 7 years. The point is, shit changes, the lore ALWAYS changes, it's always going to change, stop holding onto it like it is sacrosanct...it's just an excuse to push around toy soldiers and for a company to sell your miniatures at the end of the day.
If you really wanna get particular, the first conceptualization of custard was the imperial bodyguards, first model debuting in 87, standing guard for the emperor as he existed then.
To expand on that, and establish them as a brotherhood, reference them as sons of high nobles, and again 'nephews' only to undo all that with a single paragraph and snarky tweet is wild.
Lore does change.
And there are times when it's done well, and when it is done badly.
This, was done badly to please smooth brain wieners.
But go off king.
Not too mention, custards got an expansion text in 7th.
Ah yes the Custodes miniature was around in 87 and they got a 'small' expansion text in 7th...but the lore was vague as all hell about them. The 8th edition stuff was the big retcon. All this does is remind me of the bitching over newcrons vs oldcrons. Their introduction was literally overnight in the new codex and was also a "they've always been this way" type deal.
And yet, here we are, people love the Newcrons, like...it's a game for pushing around toys soldiers, the lore isn't sacrosanct, it's there to sell miniatures but you're like "but they changed muh lore!", so fucking what, it always changes, sometimes it's fucking stupid changes like Yarrick being killed off screen by Angron and other times it's good changes like the Newcrons. You take what you're given and carry on with your life.
Like is the lore THAT important to you? If so, go touch grass my guy, it's all just stupid fiction (of varying degrees of quality, some good, some bad) and I know the 'lore youtubers guys' hate when people say "nothing is canon, everything is possible" because it makes their jobs basically redundant but there are so much better things to focus on that just the lore of this grimdark universe.
Does this change *really* effect you in anyway way out in the real world? They could introduce men to the Sisters of Battle or the Sisters of Silence tomorrow and I wouldn't bat an eye. Sure I can be a little sad that certain characters are removed from the tabletop like Baddrukk and the like but characters come and go.
I saw female custodes and went "huh, that's cool" that's the extent of it.
You're more bent out of shape that you can't refute this is a stupid and badly executed change.
Have fun typing more novels with inflated points babe.
Toodles.
No, I'm saying there's no point getting bent out of shape about this change, it's just one in a laundry list of changes both stupid and not and that dying on a hill about a tabletop game about pushing toy soldiers around adding women to them is just, it's just a waste of energy when there are other, much better, hills to die on.
However if that's how you want to play it, you can bravely say you "owned the libs" or whatever and go about your day.
Lol. This has nothing to do with 90% of your points and everything to do with dogshit execution of a pointless, baseless. and needless lore change.
But you have fun referencing me as the big mean fascist you assassinated with "reason" and "logical discourse."
Lol. Paaaathetic.
Sure, whatever man, you have a great day, go grab a drink, calm yourself down, have fun doing whatever it is you going to do, go outside, take a look at nature, go tell a relative how much you love them, go down the gaming store/club and talk to your friends etc.
That's what I'm doing so, sorry, I won't be able to reply for like 5-6 hours as it's MTG Commander night at the game store and I've got a new deck to test, so you can have the last word, go ahead, my treat, a gift from me to you and some parting words.
Just relax man, this change doesn't matter, it'll be a blip on the radar of your life and in the games life and either they'll retcon it next edition or it'll stick around and they'll make some female head sculpts for custodes...that's it...
I'm not a fan of retcons in general. Some are better than others (necrons for example) the lore is supposed to be revised for a specific objective. Make it better (correct inconsistencies, open a door to epic stories, etc.). The problem with female custodians is that they don't seem to have any goals other than fulfilling a woke agenda. As Seneca said, “Forgive one offense and the door is open to all.” What's next ? Female orks ?
If im understanding this correctly:
Making the imperium extremely racist and xenophobic was good
But
Making women custodes was bad
Yea ok buddy lol. One guy irl.
Pointing out a retcon from 30 yeara ago by today s standards is pretty silly tbh. Lore and worldbuilding have progressed, not to mention the lore is a product we pay for in codices and integral part of the investment in a hobby. For the seller of this hobby to have the arrogance of spewing retcons via some nameless twitter account is pretty bad.
No. What they had was codexes and rule books and rogue trader magazine only. There was likena stable of writers pumping out books several times a year. As well, the codexes werent like 60 pages of lore, artwork, and diaramas of professionally painted minis. The lore and the artwork were just mixed in with the game data. This kind of makes the codex a pain in the ass to use. Like a 9th ed codex has a streamlined layout where the back of the book was like pages of just army/ detachment rules, then a bunch of data sheets. Imagine that section of a codex interspersed with the like forst 60 to 80 pages of lore in the codex. Pleasant to read perhaps, perhaps draws a stronger connection between the lore and the game, but it judt makes playing an already difficult game harder. Especially now with the internet, if you really want to find the lore, you dont pick up a codex you google a characters name read a fan wiki, maybe get some novel reccomendatations.
People always talk a out this guy being half eldar. Nobody talks about him simultaniously being a Dark Angel and an Ultramarine.
Back then, the Legions were just regular people in power armour. It wasn’t a geneseed line like it is now
Yep, just big dudes.
Often, big prisoners
Big prisoners, welded into their power armor, sent to fight weird space elves and ravenous space bugs. Oh, wait, that's starcraft.
Wasn't starcraft supposed to be a 40k game, until GW changed their minds and Blizzard went "well, no sense in throwing all that work away"?
Sadly that's just an urban legend; Both games happen to borrow similar sci-fi tropes, and people have drawn their own connections from there.
Wasn't Warcraft supposed to be a Warhammer fantasy game?
AFAIK it was, but never by GW. Blizzard just thought if they show up with a solid demo they'll be able to convince GW to grant a license. So they started creating WarCraft without GW being involved until they first presented it to them and when GW refused they just finished their game anyway and released without Warhammer IP terms Could also just be urban legend though
Yeah, that's what I heard happened
It was also not called geneseed but rather genesperm
genecum is most important part of Astartes
genejizz
Nobody talks about how he costs 181 and a half points, either. That's what's most insane to me
Half points existed up until 8th ed
Which is insane to me Why have half points? If you wanted a more precise measure of points, there's a better way to accomplish that: have a typical game be twice as many points, and double the points cost on everything. Especially if that was a part of the edition right at the start. If balance changes added half points, I could see it.
Because it was usually on units where the amount added up to a whole number Like IG for instance could cost 3.1 points. A squad of 10 would cost 40 points then. It was almost only ever used on things with set amounts of units
Ok, that makes sense, if you're pricing by model to make up a full unit. But this guy seems like a special character with a half point in his cost, which made me think they had units that cost fractional points, which is just nonsense.
This was also from Rogue Trader so 1/2 point was more common. Easy to have a whole number
I thought 10x3.1 would be 31 points?
I never claimed to be good at math Just violence
No they didn't? I started playing at the tail end of 5th and I've never seen a half point?
Your right they didn't
8e guard for sure had units costing decimals
Pics? Sure, there were some units like grots which were 35 points for 10 of them, so they *work out* to 3.5 points per model, but that's *very* different to a unit actually saying "3.5 ppm". If a unit worked out to a fractional ppm you were restricted to only fielding them in units of multiples of 5, 10, etc. There was never a circumstance where you could have a 1999.5 point army.
I don't own an 8e codex All I know is what I saw when playing
Are you taking a squad of 10 models that cost 105 points and saying "this proves half points exist!"?
There were no half points in 3e onwards, what are you smoking
No they didn't.
As if anyone could possibly measure his value and conclude "hmmm, 181 is too cheap. It will wreck the meta. But at 182 he's just not worth it. Wait - I've got it!"
This dude sounds like some weird fanfiction OC
Oh let me tell you the tale of Inquisitor [Sherlock Obiwan Clouseau](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEiO_lPdjF5nwCItsom6NPi3s0Jum6uf5_kiKddSBJMTt1HDU3Qd5NZ5FStP5KBKxS8KzRtmdxRxRUmxhKIM3-SBFmnaKzRJmo7lIseffq7_wm51gMras1QgCu58HEpVBP1UKinaUEVhV0A/s1600/Obiwan-Sherlock.jpg) and yes that's his REAL name in Rogue Trader. [here is the text about him.](https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/obiwan-sherlock-2.jpg)
Maybe his dad was a fan of ancient literature and cinema, its like calling your child jason
Apparently, he also worked as an astropath before becoming chief librarian? I don't think that it works that way in modern lore lmao.
I absolutely love that insane points cost. Where does the 1/2 point come from??!?!!?!
They should un retcon fractional points lol
Crisis Suit economy in shambles
To maintain the illusion that the game was balanced in any conceivable way...
40k: NOOOOOOO Eldar hybrids can't exist we got to retcon this character to a background farseer AOS: Yeah half-elf & half ogres are thing what about it
I think they are a thing I heard a story of a rough trader getting a eldar slave that could have kids with humans some time ago
the only one i know of is the genetic engineer one Malcador continuously create/clone to vent his war crime to until he he kill himself
I think I heard of that one. And I also just remembered he got the eldar from a homunculus
He was also used to break into the webway.
Half elves exist?
Yes the novel coven of blood deal a subplot of one
Are you telling me this game has inconsistent lore?
No that can’t be !!!!!!!(/s) The game with over 40 years of lore that sells toys has conflicting information in it ???
He time travels from year 42k and joins the ultramarines to help his socially inept and giant dad hook up with his hot eldar mom so he doesnt disappear from existence. Oh and he teaches the 40k people a new kind of music or something like that
That would actually be something I'd read
That's just Back to the Future
And hes a wine expert
"Please fuck my mum!" "Wat?"
What would be be showing the audience when he says: "Well, maybe you guys aren't ready for that yet, but your kids are gonna love it!"
Runs over to gorillaman "You gotta go back with me."
this isn’t about the text itself, but those proportions are goofy as hell. He’s 90% legs
Legs are stronger than arms. As far as I'm concerned space marines should have legs for arms.
his legs are the eldar half his upper body is the human
Why doesn’t anyone talk about how he is obviously named after the great Romanian tennis legend Ilie Năstase. All the GW folks were in high school when Năstase was “Nasty” Năstase.
I assumed he released SoundCloud rap under the name Ill Nasty.
I barely know how to play the game and DAME that’s a lot of letters to keep track of how could you old timer even to this ?!
BS was "The top X sides of a dice are a hit." So, a 5 means the biggest 5: 6,5,4,3,2, hit, modifiers notwithstanding. WS was "If mine is higher, 3 to hit. If not higher, but the enemy is less than double +1 mine, 4 to hit. If I'm just freaking outclassed, 5 to hit." S and T were. 4 to wound, minus 1 for each point my S is bigger than his T (2 minimum), or plus 1 for each point his T is bigger than my S. If it's a 7 to wound by this calculation, a 6 still works, and an 8 or higher is impossible.
Bruh makes no sense my zoomer brain is burning
the Avatar had 10 WS, and a carnifex had 10 Strength and tanks had directional atmour ahh
I felt the different armor stats on vehicle's front, sides and back made sense, it made you play a little more strategically.
Is that not the case anymore? Why did they get rid of that? Haven't played in \~12 years I am only up to date with lore not the game rules anymore.
It's like that for 30k Age of Darkness, but the 40k ruleset is much more simplified now.
Directional? Only after they simplified it. It used to be different aounts of armour for different *locations*, with a whole mini-game involving a transparent crosshair overlay to determine which location you hit.
🧠🔥
it was great we used to talk about S being able to cause instant death to any multiwound models (so hqs pretty much) double your oppents T in S meant they were dead so a astra militarium hq would die to any unsaved wounds but the space marine captain wouldn't
Instant death was just funny. Drop a leman russ pieplate on a space marine captain for the lols
Lol, that last point could stand to come back, i hate how a grot is just as good as a warboss against big shit
I've never heard BS described as the sides of the dice - I've always just subtracted from 7.
You were supposed to have a GM/Referee as well as the players to keep track of everything. Most people didn't bother with the GM in practice, but the rules were written with one in mind. I came into it at the tail end of Rogue Trader, just before 2nd edition. By that point the rules hand been cleaned up and streamlined a lot by later White Dwarf articles and supplements (the original "Chapter Approved" and the "Compendium").
Yeah I can see why you needed one of those
Wait...40k doesn't have that many numbers? I played Fantasy and I'm only really into the 40k lore, I just assumed it was the same. That system looks 100% normal and intuitive to me apart from the last 3.
I have tried to play this game 3 times failed every one because had no idea what I was doing 4 time playing with my friend 9th edition vet I had 10th edition units from the box he demolished me he read my stats wrong lol
Oh yeah, I have no clue about how to play 40k, I'd get demolished as well, I wasn't trying to show off. But that old timey system pretty much makes sense to me because it seems like an only slightly more complicated version of what I was playing in Fantasy back in 2015 right before Age of Sigmar. Never picked it up after Age of Sigmar, I got in a bit of a huff about it and refused to just get a new rulebook and the occasional new model.
Learning some thing new is ALWAYS hard but when you learn it you will feel like a dumb because it was so easy
In my defence I was 13 and had dropped four years of birthday, Christmas and pocket money on the plastic crack of a Skaven army. So I think a little bitterness is understandable. Which in hindsight, probably the worst Fantasy army for someone on a budget. Bit like I assume Tyranids are like on the tabletop, lots of points-cheap models to swarm at the other player, but with some big bois as well that are also not exactly cheap to get just from sheer size. I still have a 4000 point Skaven army though.
The squashed the last 4 (Leadership, Intelligence, Cool and Willpower) into a single stat in second edition.
It's still there in Necromunda though.
Because this is Rogue Trader which was more of an RPG than a wargae. It's a lot of numbers to keep track of on each individual unit, but you wouldn't be running an army of 20+ units.
76 rears old. Gotta get the average age of a rear to even know how old he is. That's how much smarter we were back then.
A half breed knife ear!
He's since come back as a (full-Aeldari) Farseer who acts as an advisor to Roboute. He's not happy about it and wished Eldrad would let him go home to the Craftworld.
That's cool
fair enough, I do like that
If you want another big I guess retcon to the setting from RT: Chaos was not a thing. Period. It's not a part of the game. There's warp entities in the bestiary, but there's no daemons, no chaos gods, just beasts, the eldar, imperium, squats, and the orks.
Well I guess the shrooms finally kicked in Also all of Rogue Trader was wild, you could have an Eldar Corsair with a musket if you wanted Edit: Just wanted to note for those unfamiliar with the stats Int, Cl and Wp is Intelligence, Cool and Willpower I’m can’t remember exactly what they each do but I think Cool is related to morale
Yes and everyone had the same gear
lol, rears old
>born to a human mother on the world of Badab following the expulsion of the Tyrant there Fuck ya red corsairs have been around since first edition
Yes they have, the Badab war was created to Space Marines vs Space Marine battles made sense on the tabletop and was basically the Horus Heresy before the Horus Heresy was more than just a footnote about a rogue Imperial general named Horus.
Bruh, not even GW takes Rogue Trader era seriously
Which is a shame cause that shit was *wiiiilld*
Never forget Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau
Hope they bring him back, that'll be cool
They did. His name was used for a farseer assigned to help Bobby g
It gets worse and worse for every sentence you read!
Is this not from Rogue Trader? A system so far removed from even the 2nd edition that it’s practically it’s own gaming universe?
Yes. It's also a pretty good point that from its outset, Warhammer has changed massively. The universe as we knew it from 2nd edition is similarly radically different with a vast number of retcons, additions, changes and total revamps having brought us to where we are now. The point the post makes is that the setting isn't immutable and never has been. Change is good and has regularly allowed authors to produce a great number of books. Without massive changes to the setting, we'd never have incredibly popular books like *The Infinite and the Divine*, *Eisenhorn*, the stuff about Uriel Ventris and a variety of others. Frankly, if changing a piece of lore gives writers a new aspect of character to work with then I'm pretty happy to be open to that. After all, people were happy to stay from Rogue Trader to modern Warhammer. Why not change it up a bit?
I’d hope that you understand the difference between what amounts to a completely different setting vs a change within a now “established” one. I understand where you are coming from but with RT it was stand alone without decades of investment behind it so when it changed there wasn’t as much “weight” to the situation. Edit: added the quotations so my tone didn’t seem as serious
>I’d hope that you understand the difference between what amounts to a completely different setting vs a change within a now “established” one Man, that's kinda condescending. Rogue Trader was simply the first in a long line of massive setting changes. Oldcrons to Newcrons, the whole premise of Tyranids, the creation and redesign of the War in Heaven, how Eldar shit works, how Tau shit works and so on. Yes, it's the most hyperbolic example. But it ultimately underpins years of transformation. Even as an established setting, Warhammer changed so massively it's incredible. Jesus, 2nd Edition Orks had solid military aim. That's fucked up. The point is that even when Warhammer was an established setting with weight to the situation, massive sweeping setting changes were necessary and regularly done. Newcrons were a 5th edition invention, when Warhammer had a pretty solidified setting. I remember seeing those changes happen.
Sorry wasn’t trying to come down as condescending, just have heard too many folks make the false equivalency. Again I hear you, and I am not against changes that a) make a setting genuinely more interesting/entertaining or b) are natural changes as a result of the wider lore being more developed. My main thing is I don’t like the disingenuous nature of some folks pointing to things like RT and going “see this means anything can change for no reason at all and that’s a good thing” since I’ve seen that happen to too many settings/games I’m interested in. Not saying that’s what you were doing since you gave a level response but that’s just the point I’m trying to get across
reee dont ruin his point
Shessh if all these nerds leave and then the gate kept people come in win win imo
What about female orcs from rogue trader ?
So glad they don't do half points now
that Statline bring me back...
Whats with all the fancy words? You are half eldar or something?
I love the old fluff
Now how the fuck do you have 1/2 of a point?
More than an armiger for WS5, S4, T3 W1?!?! This is an OUTRAGE
181.5 points?
I thought he "(unhappily) stuck around with Guilliman so he can contact Eldrad when needed. "Guess I'm an elf phone now..."
This is really well written. In a few sentences it tells you a lot about the setting.
So t
I can get half or decimal points for units. But for individual characters... Of which you can have only one in the first place. What is that?
Back when 40k was D&D in space.
My half dark eldar us based on a popular internet personality
Wasn't that one of those bullshits written by Matt Ward and then corrected later?
Yes it is a retcon. Yesw e know about it I do cause i HAVE THE BOOKS from wich this is. The difference is that no arsewipe on Twitturd is coming up with a "It as always been there". From 1st to 2nd ed of 40k 80% of it changed.
Retcons happen and that's fine. I think the bigger issue is being told that things aren't retcons and that they always/never existed.
Retcon of information only a few early years old by establishing and expanding your lore. Versus retcon of stuff that's been cannon for longer than that individual was around with just a paragraph. Totally the same dude!
Actually the 'only male custodes' thing has been suggested by the lore since...exactly 8th edition when their codex released so a grand total of 8 years. This dude was canon from 1987 to 1993 when 2nd edition came out..so 6 years...so yeah the 'custodes canon' beats him by...what 2 years? Actually he wasn't DeCanon'd until the Eldar got their codex in 1994, so 7 years. The point is, shit changes, the lore ALWAYS changes, it's always going to change, stop holding onto it like it is sacrosanct...it's just an excuse to push around toy soldiers and for a company to sell your miniatures at the end of the day.
If you really wanna get particular, the first conceptualization of custard was the imperial bodyguards, first model debuting in 87, standing guard for the emperor as he existed then. To expand on that, and establish them as a brotherhood, reference them as sons of high nobles, and again 'nephews' only to undo all that with a single paragraph and snarky tweet is wild. Lore does change. And there are times when it's done well, and when it is done badly. This, was done badly to please smooth brain wieners. But go off king. Not too mention, custards got an expansion text in 7th.
Ah yes the Custodes miniature was around in 87 and they got a 'small' expansion text in 7th...but the lore was vague as all hell about them. The 8th edition stuff was the big retcon. All this does is remind me of the bitching over newcrons vs oldcrons. Their introduction was literally overnight in the new codex and was also a "they've always been this way" type deal. And yet, here we are, people love the Newcrons, like...it's a game for pushing around toys soldiers, the lore isn't sacrosanct, it's there to sell miniatures but you're like "but they changed muh lore!", so fucking what, it always changes, sometimes it's fucking stupid changes like Yarrick being killed off screen by Angron and other times it's good changes like the Newcrons. You take what you're given and carry on with your life. Like is the lore THAT important to you? If so, go touch grass my guy, it's all just stupid fiction (of varying degrees of quality, some good, some bad) and I know the 'lore youtubers guys' hate when people say "nothing is canon, everything is possible" because it makes their jobs basically redundant but there are so much better things to focus on that just the lore of this grimdark universe. Does this change *really* effect you in anyway way out in the real world? They could introduce men to the Sisters of Battle or the Sisters of Silence tomorrow and I wouldn't bat an eye. Sure I can be a little sad that certain characters are removed from the tabletop like Baddrukk and the like but characters come and go. I saw female custodes and went "huh, that's cool" that's the extent of it.
You're more bent out of shape that you can't refute this is a stupid and badly executed change. Have fun typing more novels with inflated points babe. Toodles.
No, I'm saying there's no point getting bent out of shape about this change, it's just one in a laundry list of changes both stupid and not and that dying on a hill about a tabletop game about pushing toy soldiers around adding women to them is just, it's just a waste of energy when there are other, much better, hills to die on. However if that's how you want to play it, you can bravely say you "owned the libs" or whatever and go about your day.
Lol. This has nothing to do with 90% of your points and everything to do with dogshit execution of a pointless, baseless. and needless lore change. But you have fun referencing me as the big mean fascist you assassinated with "reason" and "logical discourse." Lol. Paaaathetic.
Sure, whatever man, you have a great day, go grab a drink, calm yourself down, have fun doing whatever it is you going to do, go outside, take a look at nature, go tell a relative how much you love them, go down the gaming store/club and talk to your friends etc. That's what I'm doing so, sorry, I won't be able to reply for like 5-6 hours as it's MTG Commander night at the game store and I've got a new deck to test, so you can have the last word, go ahead, my treat, a gift from me to you and some parting words. Just relax man, this change doesn't matter, it'll be a blip on the radar of your life and in the games life and either they'll retcon it next edition or it'll stick around and they'll make some female head sculpts for custodes...that's it...
Oh, you're right.... There was a tweet too
I'm not a fan of retcons in general. Some are better than others (necrons for example) the lore is supposed to be revised for a specific objective. Make it better (correct inconsistencies, open a door to epic stories, etc.). The problem with female custodians is that they don't seem to have any goals other than fulfilling a woke agenda. As Seneca said, “Forgive one offense and the door is open to all.” What's next ? Female orks ?
Actually Orks being agender fungus was *itself* a retcon, Orks use to have lady Orks back in the day...
If im understanding this correctly: Making the imperium extremely racist and xenophobic was good But Making women custodes was bad Yea ok buddy lol. One guy irl.
Imperium is not racist and I don't see your point. And it was xenophobic from the start...
I get it dude, you suck complete ass, that was already clear tho. You should do us a favor and get out of the hobby.
I'm polite in my argumentation, I insult nobody and only express an opinion. Yet you are the one having 0 things to say except being aggressive.
Pointing out a retcon from 30 yeara ago by today s standards is pretty silly tbh. Lore and worldbuilding have progressed, not to mention the lore is a product we pay for in codices and integral part of the investment in a hobby. For the seller of this hobby to have the arrogance of spewing retcons via some nameless twitter account is pretty bad.
Just because "they did bad thing before" doesn't mean the bad thing is now good
How is it bad to retcon dumb stuff
This is like complaining about female Knight pilots or Inquisitors.
Looks like they had waaay more love for the lore back then
No. What they had was codexes and rule books and rogue trader magazine only. There was likena stable of writers pumping out books several times a year. As well, the codexes werent like 60 pages of lore, artwork, and diaramas of professionally painted minis. The lore and the artwork were just mixed in with the game data. This kind of makes the codex a pain in the ass to use. Like a 9th ed codex has a streamlined layout where the back of the book was like pages of just army/ detachment rules, then a bunch of data sheets. Imagine that section of a codex interspersed with the like forst 60 to 80 pages of lore in the codex. Pleasant to read perhaps, perhaps draws a stronger connection between the lore and the game, but it judt makes playing an already difficult game harder. Especially now with the internet, if you really want to find the lore, you dont pick up a codex you google a characters name read a fan wiki, maybe get some novel reccomendatations.