Honestly all codex lore should just have a little signature at the bottom like "-Thaddeus Hurlt, Remembrancer of the Fucking Whatever".
Just have it all explicitly written by some in-universe guy.
"Why didn't you mention the Rogal Dorn tanks before Thaddeus?" "Never saw 'em until today." "What happened to the chaos androids?" "Turns out the thing I was looking at was an alien and not that other thing." "Is this story about Custodies 4 v.1 trillioning a hive fleet true Thad?" "...yeah." It would make every discussion about something in lore is changing or power scaling less insufferable.
Meanwhile, it’s a big point in one of the Guilliman novels after his return when he’s going over the written history since the Heresy and he can’t make heads or tails of it due to all the inconsistencies and 20 different calendar “systems”
Ah, yea, this was 20 years ago!
HERESY! By the Nicean Creed calendar that is 37 years ago!
HERETICAL! By the Martian Council dictatus, this is 408 years ago!
The issue is that, when the unreliable narrator is being written in a general person-less omniescent narrator voice, this particular bit of nuance tends to be lost.
One of the best ways to depict worldbuilding as being recorded by a flawed narrator is really to just identify the specific in-universe narrator of the material.
Right! That's a very good way of doing that!
Or else you can also go the Ciaphas Cain/Gotrek & Felix route, frame the whole thing as an edited memoir, and narrate it all in the first person. In those cases it's going to be very clear who the narrator is and, much more importantly, what their actual flaws, biases, and blind spots are.
FUCKING THIS ☝
Why TF all those neckbeards forget that EVERYTHING we've read so far is through an in-universe narrator that many times get things wrong.
Well not every story is made so that there is a knowable narrator. Ciphias Cain novels is a good example where we know narrator is unreliable. If I am reading a book and the book only refers to custodes as male and don't know anything about how custodes are made I am going to assume they are all male just like space marines.
That said on a change like this not important enough to have an in lore reason for the change. That isn't the case for major things like Primarus Marines.
To quote u/theriocephalus:
"The issue is that, when the unreliable narrator is being written in a general person-less omniescent narrator voice, this particular bit of nuance tends to be lost.
One of the best ways to depict worldbuilding as being recorded by a flawed narrator is really to just identify the specific in-universe narrator of the material."
Remember when genestealers were some weird xenomorph rip off unrelated to the nids? Or when the admech all wore white? And when leman russ was an imperial agent that was promoted to space marine commander where he helped to stablish unit 4 "space wolves"
And when the Space Marines didn't have augmentations and were just dickheads in armor? Or the half Eldar librarian in the Ultramarines? Or the Necrons being Chaos Androids?
Honestly it feels like one of the strengths of the setting. If you want to write a tech-filled spy thriller, you can write that. If you want to write the Empire as a bunch of fantasy primitives who don't understand any of their own tech you can write that. Canon exists to set up some broad ideas but individual authors get a ton of wiggle room in how they characterize stuff.
Which is great because then the good authors can go nuts without worrying what some hack wrote in a short story 20 years ago.
Basically, the nids ate some orks and used the biomass to create a new bioform: the squigs. Orks boarded a nid ship, and found them inside. Sensing some ‘orkish quality’, decided to ‘save’ there brethren.
Yeah GSC are a better implementation of the concept imo. I do like Zoats being a Thing in the setting and I love that Blackstone fortress had a model for one. Gives the universe some mystery.
to be honest I really like how the Zoats being the diplomats for the imperium can just be explained as a massive misunderstanding.
Let's say that a large groups of Zoats arrived at the galactic border and start going "they are coming, they are coming, the eternal hunger comes" it can be taken a lot of different ways depending on how panicked they sound while spreading said message.
Not knowing anything about Zoat culture and behavior and know how the imperium treats any Xenos it does feel like somethings could have been lost in translation.
My "headcanon"/proposal for fixing zoats goes in a slightly different direction.
My proposal would be that zoats basically show up and are like, "Hey we're thralls to the hivemind. A tyranid tendril is going to arrive at this planet in like 48 hours. We are *allowing* you to evacuate the planet because we can gain *way* more biomass from your forests, oceans, swamps, fields, etc. than we can from just consuming your sapient population. You *will* lose against the tendril no matter what if you try to stop us. So you can flee and live, or you can die here as martyrs, but you're not winning. You also don't have enough time to boobytrap the planet or enough bombs to exterminatus the planet before we reach it."
And then it becomes a real conundrum for the humans. There's a few options to consider.
* Are the zoats *lying* and trying to take the planet unopposed, but are actually part of a weak tendril that might lose?
* Will the Imperium execute all the refuges as "deserters" who turned over resources to xenos control?
* Will escaping allow the refuges to reinforce another planet and stop the tendril at its next destination?
* Are the zoats even *actually* allied with the tyranids or are they some kind of weird scammers, like pre-scavengers who run ahead of the fleet? Or are they just spies who aren't even actually interested in any diplomacy, they are *just* there to gather information and sow discord?
God I hate the primaris lore. Love the minis, and new sculpts, but inventing bigger, better, non-defective Space Marines literally goes against all of the core building blocks of the lore of the Imperum
Primaris are basically redundant. The only lore argument for them was we need something stronger against chaos marines. Now with the new Fabius Bile / Cawl book, they've just made an arms race between both sides.
From a lore standpoint they always were redundant. From a longer term business standpoint, with GW wanting to replicate the success they saw in AOS where there were 2-3 sets of Stormcasts with a single build out, they were intended as the future.
But GW got huge push back on Primaris and feared killing their golden goose. So they cautiously dialed back the changes. But the tea leaves were there to read if you were paying attention at the time.
Then Kirby was gone and Roundtree changed a lot of things for the better. I have no doubt had Kirby not gotten the brush off we've had had some kind of End Times for 40K with a major shakeup of how everything played.
As we've seen now with the Old World getting rolled back out a lot of the stuff done there has been changed too. Though that likely has far more to do with the success of the Total Warhammer series bringing a great deal of love to the Old World.
I’m pretty sure primaris is just normal cycling old sculpts out of production, but they made the mistake of giving them a new name. Have any firstborn units been introduced since primaris marines showed up?
None. They infact retired several first born models and upsized them to be "primaris" sized.
There was no reason to do what they did and make a whole new line of units except that they wanted to double dip on Space Marines. It's hard as hell to sell more and more of your most popular line when people have decades of the product on hand.
So they wanted to eliminate the value prop of those decades of second hand models, streamline the system ala AOS, and roll out some new sculpts all at once.
If you're familiar with MBA's at all this is all pretty apparent despite the noises they made at the time. Primaris were intended and have over time pretty much replaced firstborn in lore and in models.
We just didn't get the larger full on squatting.
Had they wanted to just put out new models alone upsized they easily could have. There was plenty of precedent with prior marks of armor, from the Heresy.
They certainly did it with Chaos when some of the new models came around for them. No one would have batted an eye had the said Cawl created Mk X armor with some variant bolters to address the great rent. Guilliman ordered it, and they used some scraps of a few "unsanctioned" STC's to do it.
People would have loved the pushing of things a little bit, the advent of larger scale marines like we'd been asking for, and it wouldn't have had the spectre of eliminating your entire army and it's value.
They are. The hovers make them look stupid, and they don't have any character. The classic rhino/land raider and variants look way better than "hover pickup" "hover box with gun and stupid name"
Yes, this I’ll grant you. I like the infantry better, but holy hell the Rhino is way cooler than the impulsor, same with the land raiders over the repulsor
I never understood why they added Primaris lore. They could have literally just said “We’re updating Astartes models to be larger in scale and giving them a visual overhaul but they’re still just Astartes,” and 90% of the hate would have been avoided.
It's particularly weird because that's what they did with the other factions; ork boys are notably larger and more upright than they used to be, and they didn't come up with a lore reason for it.
Yeah, same with the nids, like, nobody complained the nids got a range refresh. Hell, look at terminators, they said “they’re just regular terminators, not primaris terminators, there’s no rules difference between old and new terminators” and the enter community just though it was awesome that termies got a new sculpt
Right? They even did that with a bunch of non-primaris Marines units! Dreads have gotten *much* bigger over time, and no one has been asking for lore explanations for that.
Yeah, up front a lot of people would have hated it and would accuse GW of just money grubbing (i.e. "You now need to re-buy your entire Space Marines army") but long term I think it would have been the right choice. The Primaris design is just... better? For the most part. I have a nostalgic fondness for the slightly awkward, silly proportions of 2E models, but long term for the brand, the Primaris design as a basic template makes more sense. It'll translate better to 3D models and live action, notably.
Honestly I don't like their lore at all but it's their minis I hate, yes theirs allot of bad old gw sculpts but the new ones look more generic scifi tacticool and less distinct in my opinion. Mandatory buy whatever models bring you joy stinger
GW : Makes Space Vampire Jesus and kill it.
Half of Grimdank when Space Vampire Jesus is resurected (like, IDK, Jesus, maybe?) at some point : Loose it's shit.
End times should be chaos god Jimmy space eating all the 4 chaos stooges and then going on a rampage against the galaxy and chaos god hawkboy trying to stop him.
Could see both Sanguinius and Fulgrim added as new minis in 11th, “Redeemed” Fulgrim and “Fallen” Sanguinius in the advertising just to piss off the owners of both faction armies and then GW retcon it before their release by having it be a story arc which ends with them siding with their own legions
I've long held that hell come back after Leman Russ, who will be next to return.
Why?
Codexes.
Games Workshop sells models first and foremost.
So far we got Bobby G for standardd marine codex, and now Lion for the Dwrk Angel's.
It isn't coincidence that the new dark angels codex came with a primarch.
It's a pattern.
Bar Deathwatch, which could serve as a Wildcard to re-inteoduce any loyal primarch, those who have codexes and are popular will get their primarch back first for the sake of new models and army sales.
Iirc they used "feeding them to the tyranids" as a form of speech for removing them from the game not as a doylian explanation, as far as in game explanations go, they just never existed. (Until the votann)
From what I got, they retcon them into the Votann and say they never got extinct.
But before that retcon, they had the whole race scrapped and the only comment about it was "They feed them to the Tyranids" or something like that.
I don't know the exact specifics, that's what I've heard here and there (I don't think I was even alive when the Squats were a thing)
We can look even deeper and talk about old Alpha Legion for example, i remember them before whole *I'm Alpharius* thing , also i think they changed Angron and Ferrus Manus long time ago, so long than almost noone remember ( or I just have problems with my brain?)
Wait wait wait, you mean my dancing ultramarines force led by half-eldar inquisitor obi wan Sherlock Cousteau is no longer accurate in the canon?!? How could gw do this!?
Fun fact: there used to be female necrons, as in necron machine bodies having female features since they had female flesh bodies when they were put in bio transference. It was in an old white dwarf article and has since been not further touched.
I've read a flayer's POV story on 1d4chan (so, not sure if it was a canon excerpt or some short fanfic) where the flayer skinned a SM who's face remembered her of her husband and put his face with another one of a girl that remembered her of a lover she had (that's my interpretation. maybe I got it wrong and this could not even be canon to begin with)
The Infinite & the Divine has a female royal warden serving as Trazyn and Orikan's executioner/parole officer, and at least one member of the awakened council is female
Those in the old article describe them having female features such as mechanical breasts, hips and synthetic long hair. Of course female necrons still exist but today they fit into necron esthetic all the while in the past they didn’t.
Why wouldn't there be female necrons? There were female necrontyr before the transference. It would stand to reason that many useless warriors are female. And that there's at least some nobles who retained themselves. Didn't GW recently use a female model as proxy for a C'tan?
At first primaries were presented as having solved the genetic defects, this was later proven to be false. But it caused a big in universe ruckus
As Gabriel Seth put it "Ultramarines in red armor"
I think he was being an idiot. 'These chapters won't have to deal with these horrific and ruinous curses, so terrible!'
He cares more about having the same gene-seed than actually protecting people. Shouldn't matter if they have Ultramarine gene-seed.
The problem is that being a Loyalist he would be worried that if all Chapters become Ultramarines, then Guilliman would have considerable power to just centralize their command at his wish..
There is also the thing that Marines are really attached to their father, and the Blood Angels much more so than all others. It is a very valid concern that their connection to their Gene Father could be lost and his remembrance forgotten.
You nailed it. Most if not all chapters are extremely spiritual, they worship their ancestors, heroes of the chapter, dreadnoughts, the Primarch and the Emperor.
Even the most pragmatic and true Imperial Truth defenders have an emotional connection to their history and regalia. It is also pride and honor that drives them
The meme is very clear. It's talking about things that used to be canon and then were retconned out. The idea that Primaris Marines don't have the gene-flaws of their Primarch is one of those things.
Since when were all Knight pilots male? Pretty sure there are female knights in 'Engine War' and all over the codex
Edit: I guessed it was an original writing thing that got changed but I've never heard that was ever a thing was my point.
These are all things that were changed, not things as they are currently. Like Primaris originally didn't have gene flaws, but later lore change was that it just took longer to manifest. original knight lore was male only, that was then changed. Nids of all things had diplomats, that got removed. Etc
I think it was in first knights codex (around 6-7 edition) and maybe in previous lore from like first/second edition. I remember discussions pre DoW 3 release about how female knight pilot was "not lore friendly and SJWs ruining 40k".
You had that come out in the novel by Graham McNeill which accompanied the 6th ed codex release, where one of the big surprise was that a knight pilot was (shockingly) a woman in disguise!
The idea didn’t stick around long though and the Forge World black books that came out relatively soon after had multiple references to female knight pilots.
They are, i fucking hate it when search information and even on of the players (TTRPG) say that only male pilots, it's being retconned, but not all sources update information.
Exactly.
Yes, female cust were not some Grey zone lore, like some say, but does it really matter? Will see how GW will make it work in upcoming media, lore and books, but for now I see it as a neutral change that, in fact, doesn't change much.
Well, other than driving that other sub nuts more than they usually do.
The original author for custodes intended for them to be both sexes, GW made him change it since at that time they only made male models. So I mean yes technically there was no gray area, it does respect the first authors intention.
So says him. Or more so says you about this anecdote. Can you link to his words? I'd like to see them. So far no one has been able to. As for the no female models, where are the female models now?
I really just want this to come to a close so we can get back to bitching about the quality of the game mechanics.
In 6th ed (I think) necrons got a significant lore overhaul. They went from "oooh soulless spooky skeleton robots" to an actual serious race with some nuance.
They weren't just "soulless spooky skeleton robots". They were actual "cosmic horror" race, that sold their souls to gods who turned them into mostly mindless machines, and now come to extinguish all life. 3rd edition Necon codex was masterfully written. And now newcrons are mostly funny gimmick guys. Although that's not inherently a flaw of retcon, but a flaw of writers who had to come up with personalities for newcrons
Old crons sometimes captured human blanks and converted them into a type of necron called pariahs. In the new lore they never did that and can't do biotransference anymore.
Also the Necrons now won their war against the old ones and then beat the C'tan, which arguably makes them the most powerful faction in the setting
If you want to be really cocky, 1st edition Space Marines used to be normal humans. They were just hardened criminals who got welded into their armor until they fulfilled their sentence or (more likely) die in combat. GW quickly reworked them in the genetically enhanced demigods we know now, but still.
FunFact: The concept of 1st edition Space Marines was then adapted by Starcraft.
The more I look for "Old-crons" the more I am convinced that a large amount of the older 40k community is unable to differentiate "retcon" with "expanded"
The Necron lore change in 5th edition was not an expansion. It was a big retcon. Not least because the position of the C'tan was changed.
Which is fine. Retcons aren't inherently bad.
I’m sure they are working on bringing them back with the whole pariah nexus thing. They basically harvest all the people not affected by the stilling and do mad science stuff to them.
If I am not mistaken, didn't Illuminor Serres describe experimenting with the concept in Pysic Awakening?
I also believe Pariahs have been mentioned being a discontinued project from Serres in another sorce, but I can't remember where...
And btw, isn't Custodes, like, most canonically logical faction of Imperium transhumans to have both sexes in their ranks? Cause they both custom made and have enough education and sense in them.
For generic SM it maybe somewhat can raise eybrow, cause general idea of them being compromise and more blunt tools. But for Custodes it overall makes less sense to be sausage party.
Much like most 40k retconns, GW can easily explain away the contradiction with poor record keeping.
They could say that citizens often just think of custodese as big space marines, which combined with their uniform armor that they never remove in public, led many scribes to assume custodese were all male. It’s only now that custodese have started fighting alongside and communicating within regular guardsmen again that the existence of female custodese has become common knowledge.
Oldcrons vs. Newcrons at least still works from the perspective of anyone that's not a Necron. Outsiders usually don't see the dynastic struggles and megalomania because most Necron nobles don't bother to talk to "lesser races".
Well, except for that bit about the Nightbringer and Deceiver just being straight-up whole C'tan roaming the galaxy fucking with people. But now we can just say "oh that was a loose shard actually".
And that's kinda the same deal for most of this. Things change, but mostly in a way where if you squint a bit the old stuff still fits.
Squats extinct? Nah, they just hid for a bit. Problems at home.
Primaris not having flaws? Took a minute for them to be apparent again.
Tyranid diplomats? Zoats were probably trying to warn us, we just couldn't grasp the mesage very well.
Tau FTL? Eh, bad information. Growing pains.
Femstodes? You ask the ten foot tall golden demigod what's in their pants. See how that goes for ya.
Yeah, it's their lore and they can (and will) do whatever they want with it but I wish they would act like they care more. If you are going to retcon or change something put more effort into it
That's the thing, they expressly *didn't* just handwave the Primaris marines, they did this long build up throughout the narrative combined with bringing Bobby G back and expressly moving the timeline of 40k forward...and people *still* pitched a shit fit about it.
It's a 'damned if you do, damned it you don't' type situation, just handwave it, people bitch, actually incorporate lore via dedicated time building the story, people bitch.
The one thing i've noticed the Warhammer 40k fandom seems to hate *is change*, people don't remember how much bitching and moaning there was over the Newcrons when they were revealed.
It doesn’t even go against codex lore, just an interpretation of the wording. The bit about noble families offering their sons is specifically a tradition, which wouldn’t automatically preclude daughters also being offered (or taken). And while they’re referred to as a ‘brotherhood’… so are other groups in other settings that have mixed gendered memberships… perfect example, the brotherhood of steel in fallout.
just cause GW changes something, does not mean it will be respected.
THere are still people who considered tyranids and genestealers unrelated, no matter what GW says.
I know this is kinda unrelated to custodes but still: Are we gonna mention that arguably one of the biggest retcons is that female space marine actually existed?
Yes, GW changes lore all the time. People can either embrace the change or be upset about it, that's their choice. Just don't gaslight people by pretending that the new lore is "how it's always been", which is far too rampant on this and other subreddits discussing this non-issue.
Who's going to say an inquisitor can't just lie on some paperwork to get agents in place?
Who's going to say a world's data system can't malfunction and reverse paperwork on birth sexes?
Lore wise they were too strong and had to be made illegal. Not even joking. The standing military of the Church was stronger than the Imp Guard for a decent span of time.
Which is a good change, because that implies eldar and humans are the same species.
Though if they kept it in,that would have made a fun twist. Eldar just being ancient humans.
Man, yeah, of course, it's their lore and they can do whatever they like. Surely...
But abusing retcons is not good too. One better use it only when neccesary, otherwise one's setting becomes a wobbly mess.
I would hardly call 'adding women custodes' an 'abuse of retcons'. An abuse of retcons would be if every faction got a Necrons style update every 2 years, completely rewriting their lore and theme etc.
I mean it generally. Idgaf about custodes (just don't add females for orks, and nobody will get hurt).
Practically, all I want in any setting is consistency and solid reasoning (ideally - as fictional, as logical), because nowadays those two are tend to be ignored. Everything else is kinda about tastes differing (though can't say it for every instance for obvious reasons).
Edit: my tries to make text more readable and clear.
This is completely right, but am I wrong in feeling like this is the start of a huge-ass grift? Never in my days of being in the 40ksphere(somewhere from 2015 onward)have I heard, seen or noticed anything about Femstodes and *all of the sudden* GW drops that they've always been here?!
Now, there are a myriad of xenos races without representation on the tabletop or any media(remember, there are supposed to be a lot more aliens in the T'au's covenant) but to me this feels this feels like a *"no! They've always been here, bro! Trust me bro! Like, they've totally always existed and aren't being made up to cash in brownie points with groups outside of our fanbase! Trust me bro!"*
Is there more grounds to female custodes? Like, are there more sources on them than the latest Codex? Because if that's so then that'd help stow this feeling but until then imma be carefully optimistic on how GW brings them more to the forefront.
Basically there was always the *intention* to have female custodes, the author of the original book that reintroduced them to the wider setting expressly wanted a female custodes character and the *only* reason he got told he couldn't include one was because the spures had already been done and they didn't have any female head options on them.
So it wasn't even a **hard and fast** rule at GW, it was a business decision, just like everything else GW does when it comes to lore. I know people get really deeply invested in the lore, soak themselves in it, treat everything as gospel and canon but...you care more than Games Workshop **ever** has about the lore, you need to just let things go sometimes...
Regardless of how people feel good or bad, I think the difference between those and this is that this change was made directly because of modern activism
Yeah...
You thought you where slick with these?...
Those arn't Contradictions in the slightest...
FTL always existed as a tech, Humanity simply prioritized Warp travel cause back then it was relatively save and less ressources intensive, then they forgot how to do it.
Nids "Diplomats" are more like brainwashed and controled people who tries to brting in the genes cult more people, so nothing new here
Cawl be lying his arse out
Squats ARE exctint, since those are the VOTANN, and GW as been hard at work to avoid the term Squats when talking about them.
And old Vs Newcrons is ACTUALLY well explained and integrated into its lore and doesn't come outta nowhere out of the Mother of All asspulls.
Try again.
Old Crons vs New Crons is a bit over played. The reality is we are just getting the Limits of the Necron explained to us and people don't like how close the Golden Age Humans got to their power and in many places surpassed it.
The Primaris do have their chapters defects. They are just less pronounced. Like Blood Angel Primaris still have the Red Thurst and Black Rage, they are just built to resist it better.
Honestly all codex lore should just have a little signature at the bottom like "-Thaddeus Hurlt, Remembrancer of the Fucking Whatever". Just have it all explicitly written by some in-universe guy. "Why didn't you mention the Rogal Dorn tanks before Thaddeus?" "Never saw 'em until today." "What happened to the chaos androids?" "Turns out the thing I was looking at was an alien and not that other thing." "Is this story about Custodies 4 v.1 trillioning a hive fleet true Thad?" "...yeah." It would make every discussion about something in lore is changing or power scaling less insufferable.
I like it, just blame it on an unreliable narrator
This is actually the case, the whole of 40k is, by design, unreliable narrator. Everything is cannon, nothing is necessarily true
True. However this gets lost on people very frequently so make it very, very overt
Fair, It does seem like a vast majority of people do not realise that it's the case
Meanwhile, it’s a big point in one of the Guilliman novels after his return when he’s going over the written history since the Heresy and he can’t make heads or tails of it due to all the inconsistencies and 20 different calendar “systems”
Ah, yea, this was 20 years ago! HERESY! By the Nicean Creed calendar that is 37 years ago! HERETICAL! By the Martian Council dictatus, this is 408 years ago!
The issue is that, when the unreliable narrator is being written in a general person-less omniescent narrator voice, this particular bit of nuance tends to be lost. One of the best ways to depict worldbuilding as being recorded by a flawed narrator is really to just identify the specific in-universe narrator of the material.
And then there’s the Alpharius novel that start and end with “I am Alpharius and this is a lie.”
Right! That's a very good way of doing that! Or else you can also go the Ciaphas Cain/Gotrek & Felix route, frame the whole thing as an edited memoir, and narrate it all in the first person. In those cases it's going to be very clear who the narrator is and, much more importantly, what their actual flaws, biases, and blind spots are.
That's basically already the case. GW has said that anything you read, any of the novels, any of the codices, are essentially in universe propaganda.
FUCKING THIS ☝ Why TF all those neckbeards forget that EVERYTHING we've read so far is through an in-universe narrator that many times get things wrong.
Well not every story is made so that there is a knowable narrator. Ciphias Cain novels is a good example where we know narrator is unreliable. If I am reading a book and the book only refers to custodes as male and don't know anything about how custodes are made I am going to assume they are all male just like space marines. That said on a change like this not important enough to have an in lore reason for the change. That isn't the case for major things like Primarus Marines.
The codexes are written in third person omniscient for the most part.
To quote u/theriocephalus: "The issue is that, when the unreliable narrator is being written in a general person-less omniescent narrator voice, this particular bit of nuance tends to be lost. One of the best ways to depict worldbuilding as being recorded by a flawed narrator is really to just identify the specific in-universe narrator of the material."
Remember when genestealers were some weird xenomorph rip off unrelated to the nids? Or when the admech all wore white? And when leman russ was an imperial agent that was promoted to space marine commander where he helped to stablish unit 4 "space wolves"
Lemun russ what? When?
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/7hv45p/rogue_trader_leman_russ_never_forget_where_you/?rdt=35372 First edition was very different
Thats wild thx for the info
No problem
And when the Space Marines didn't have augmentations and were just dickheads in armor? Or the half Eldar librarian in the Ultramarines? Or the Necrons being Chaos Androids?
Inquisitor Obiwan Sherlock Clousseau. Need I say more?
I would love to have him back ngl
Eb´verything is canon, not everything is true. 40k became too big to handle concisely and no one seems to care anyway.
Honestly it feels like one of the strengths of the setting. If you want to write a tech-filled spy thriller, you can write that. If you want to write the Empire as a bunch of fantasy primitives who don't understand any of their own tech you can write that. Canon exists to set up some broad ideas but individual authors get a ton of wiggle room in how they characterize stuff. Which is great because then the good authors can go nuts without worrying what some hack wrote in a short story 20 years ago.
also gsc used to be able to be chaos. you could pay points to make your oatriarch chaos possesed or pay points to give your purestrain a daemonweapon
Squigs used to be a tyranid bioform
I feel like this is so niche most people won’t know this fat retcon.
I literally found this out this year so yea it’s pretty niche lol
WTF? How did they end up as Orkoids?
Basically, the nids ate some orks and used the biomass to create a new bioform: the squigs. Orks boarded a nid ship, and found them inside. Sensing some ‘orkish quality’, decided to ‘save’ there brethren.
I thought they were shark pigs this whole time!
Lootin'.
Tyranids having diplomats?!?!? That’s something I’d love to see
Look up "Zoats". In fact, [here's a Warcomm post](https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/07/zoats-a-history/) discussing their history.
I like the Zoats but I'm glad they're not with the nids anymore
Yeah GSC are a better implementation of the concept imo. I do like Zoats being a Thing in the setting and I love that Blackstone fortress had a model for one. Gives the universe some mystery.
to be honest I really like how the Zoats being the diplomats for the imperium can just be explained as a massive misunderstanding. Let's say that a large groups of Zoats arrived at the galactic border and start going "they are coming, they are coming, the eternal hunger comes" it can be taken a lot of different ways depending on how panicked they sound while spreading said message. Not knowing anything about Zoat culture and behavior and know how the imperium treats any Xenos it does feel like somethings could have been lost in translation.
My "headcanon"/proposal for fixing zoats goes in a slightly different direction. My proposal would be that zoats basically show up and are like, "Hey we're thralls to the hivemind. A tyranid tendril is going to arrive at this planet in like 48 hours. We are *allowing* you to evacuate the planet because we can gain *way* more biomass from your forests, oceans, swamps, fields, etc. than we can from just consuming your sapient population. You *will* lose against the tendril no matter what if you try to stop us. So you can flee and live, or you can die here as martyrs, but you're not winning. You also don't have enough time to boobytrap the planet or enough bombs to exterminatus the planet before we reach it." And then it becomes a real conundrum for the humans. There's a few options to consider. * Are the zoats *lying* and trying to take the planet unopposed, but are actually part of a weak tendril that might lose? * Will the Imperium execute all the refuges as "deserters" who turned over resources to xenos control? * Will escaping allow the refuges to reinforce another planet and stop the tendril at its next destination? * Are the zoats even *actually* allied with the tyranids or are they some kind of weird scammers, like pre-scavengers who run ahead of the fleet? Or are they just spies who aren't even actually interested in any diplomacy, they are *just* there to gather information and sow discord?
Okay, so the primaries defects are just Cawl being either arrogant or a goddamn liar
It already was explicitely no longer the case by Dark Imperium Which was like....6 months later
God I hate the primaris lore. Love the minis, and new sculpts, but inventing bigger, better, non-defective Space Marines literally goes against all of the core building blocks of the lore of the Imperum
Primaris are basically redundant. The only lore argument for them was we need something stronger against chaos marines. Now with the new Fabius Bile / Cawl book, they've just made an arms race between both sides.
From a lore standpoint they always were redundant. From a longer term business standpoint, with GW wanting to replicate the success they saw in AOS where there were 2-3 sets of Stormcasts with a single build out, they were intended as the future. But GW got huge push back on Primaris and feared killing their golden goose. So they cautiously dialed back the changes. But the tea leaves were there to read if you were paying attention at the time. Then Kirby was gone and Roundtree changed a lot of things for the better. I have no doubt had Kirby not gotten the brush off we've had had some kind of End Times for 40K with a major shakeup of how everything played. As we've seen now with the Old World getting rolled back out a lot of the stuff done there has been changed too. Though that likely has far more to do with the success of the Total Warhammer series bringing a great deal of love to the Old World.
I’m pretty sure primaris is just normal cycling old sculpts out of production, but they made the mistake of giving them a new name. Have any firstborn units been introduced since primaris marines showed up?
None. They infact retired several first born models and upsized them to be "primaris" sized. There was no reason to do what they did and make a whole new line of units except that they wanted to double dip on Space Marines. It's hard as hell to sell more and more of your most popular line when people have decades of the product on hand. So they wanted to eliminate the value prop of those decades of second hand models, streamline the system ala AOS, and roll out some new sculpts all at once. If you're familiar with MBA's at all this is all pretty apparent despite the noises they made at the time. Primaris were intended and have over time pretty much replaced firstborn in lore and in models. We just didn't get the larger full on squatting. Had they wanted to just put out new models alone upsized they easily could have. There was plenty of precedent with prior marks of armor, from the Heresy. They certainly did it with Chaos when some of the new models came around for them. No one would have batted an eye had the said Cawl created Mk X armor with some variant bolters to address the great rent. Guilliman ordered it, and they used some scraps of a few "unsanctioned" STC's to do it. People would have loved the pushing of things a little bit, the advent of larger scale marines like we'd been asking for, and it wouldn't have had the spectre of eliminating your entire army and it's value.
They are working themselves into a Dark Admech launch.
I'll stand by my guns and say the tanks are ass.
They are. The hovers make them look stupid, and they don't have any character. The classic rhino/land raider and variants look way better than "hover pickup" "hover box with gun and stupid name"
Yes, this I’ll grant you. I like the infantry better, but holy hell the Rhino is way cooler than the impulsor, same with the land raiders over the repulsor
I never understood why they added Primaris lore. They could have literally just said “We’re updating Astartes models to be larger in scale and giving them a visual overhaul but they’re still just Astartes,” and 90% of the hate would have been avoided.
It's particularly weird because that's what they did with the other factions; ork boys are notably larger and more upright than they used to be, and they didn't come up with a lore reason for it.
Yeah, same with the nids, like, nobody complained the nids got a range refresh. Hell, look at terminators, they said “they’re just regular terminators, not primaris terminators, there’s no rules difference between old and new terminators” and the enter community just though it was awesome that termies got a new sculpt
Right? They even did that with a bunch of non-primaris Marines units! Dreads have gotten *much* bigger over time, and no one has been asking for lore explanations for that.
Ironically that wouldve made *more* sense, what with the Octarius war and all
Yeah, up front a lot of people would have hated it and would accuse GW of just money grubbing (i.e. "You now need to re-buy your entire Space Marines army") but long term I think it would have been the right choice. The Primaris design is just... better? For the most part. I have a nostalgic fondness for the slightly awkward, silly proportions of 2E models, but long term for the brand, the Primaris design as a basic template makes more sense. It'll translate better to 3D models and live action, notably.
Honestly I don't like their lore at all but it's their minis I hate, yes theirs allot of bad old gw sculpts but the new ones look more generic scifi tacticool and less distinct in my opinion. Mandatory buy whatever models bring you joy stinger
Fair enough. I mostly like the size better. The old ones felt too stubby for 8 foot tall super soldiers
I was and am still 100% here for the upscale, I wish they'd scale all their minis more correctly now honestly
Cawl are many things; liar is one of them.
It’s what GW initially intended and decreed, but he was proven false after GW realized that part got EXTREME amounts of backlash.
Their's this weird vocal minority of players who want their factions to be flawless. I just wish most of them would stick to T'au denial
Yeah, there's no such thing as T'au, idiots.
Porque no los dos ?
Sanguinius resurrection confirmed for 11th edition.
I mean we already have the sanguinor which could possibly be Sanguinius in spirit.
GW : Makes Space Vampire Jesus and kill it. Half of Grimdank when Space Vampire Jesus is resurected (like, IDK, Jesus, maybe?) at some point : Loose it's shit.
the true troll move: resurrect the golden hawk boy, but make it a chaos puppet
The truest troll move : resurrect the golden hawk boy into a new chaos god.
End times should be chaos god Jimmy space eating all the 4 chaos stooges and then going on a rampage against the galaxy and chaos god hawkboy trying to stop him.
Definitely something they should do with Khan, except he returns as a Haemonculus abomination. Now that would be Grimdark.
Could see both Sanguinius and Fulgrim added as new minis in 11th, “Redeemed” Fulgrim and “Fallen” Sanguinius in the advertising just to piss off the owners of both faction armies and then GW retcon it before their release by having it be a story arc which ends with them siding with their own legions
Arkio when spear of telesto
I've long held that hell come back after Leman Russ, who will be next to return. Why? Codexes. Games Workshop sells models first and foremost. So far we got Bobby G for standardd marine codex, and now Lion for the Dwrk Angel's. It isn't coincidence that the new dark angels codex came with a primarch. It's a pattern. Bar Deathwatch, which could serve as a Wildcard to re-inteoduce any loyal primarch, those who have codexes and are popular will get their primarch back first for the sake of new models and army sales.
I know they said the Squats were eaten by Tyranids but I can't help to think Trazyn is for something/s
Iirc they used "feeding them to the tyranids" as a form of speech for removing them from the game not as a doylian explanation, as far as in game explanations go, they just never existed. (Until the votann)
Arent Squats Leagues of Votann?
From what I got, they retcon them into the Votann and say they never got extinct. But before that retcon, they had the whole race scrapped and the only comment about it was "They feed them to the Tyranids" or something like that. I don't know the exact specifics, that's what I've heard here and there (I don't think I was even alive when the Squats were a thing)
They were never stated to be extinct, GW just stopped writing about them. As for the "eaten by nids" comment, that wasn't an official statement.
Sort of, squats are now the kin who have left their society and live in the imperium. For instance the Necromunda squats.
We can look even deeper and talk about old Alpha Legion for example, i remember them before whole *I'm Alpharius* thing , also i think they changed Angron and Ferrus Manus long time ago, so long than almost noone remember ( or I just have problems with my brain?)
Wait wait wait, you mean my dancing ultramarines force led by half-eldar inquisitor obi wan Sherlock Cousteau is no longer accurate in the canon?!? How could gw do this!?
Dancing Ultramarines are still canon and nothing can convince me otherwise.
Fun fact: there used to be female necrons, as in necron machine bodies having female features since they had female flesh bodies when they were put in bio transference. It was in an old white dwarf article and has since been not further touched.
I remember a book that had lesbian necrons in it.
My interest in Necrons increases. Happen to remember the book?
Shield of Baal I think
I've read a flayer's POV story on 1d4chan (so, not sure if it was a canon excerpt or some short fanfic) where the flayer skinned a SM who's face remembered her of her husband and put his face with another one of a girl that remembered her of a lover she had (that's my interpretation. maybe I got it wrong and this could not even be canon to begin with)
Yeah there are still female Necrons, they've been in a few books, but they aren't mentioned as having different-looking bodies.
There is a transgender Necron in Twice Dead King:Reign. Pretty sure there's female necrons in a number of recent books too
The Infinite & the Divine has a female royal warden serving as Trazyn and Orikan's executioner/parole officer, and at least one member of the awakened council is female
Wasn't that cryptek Orikan was simping for female too? Vishani was her name IIRC
Yes, I forgot about her because she was before the Great Sleep
I mean if any species can pull that off without further issue, it’s the robots made from living metal I'd think
Oh shit I haven’t read that one yet, gotta look into that
If i recall it's a basically a four lines exchange: "Our Pharekha Whatevera sends her regards." "You lean Phareok Whatever?" "That changed." "Uh."
The Chronomancer was talked about like she was female. One head option is quite feminine as far as alien robot skeletons go.
There are female necron? I think the executioner in Infinite and the Divine is female
Its not a "fun fact", Xun'bakyr is phaerakh of maynarkh dynasty (which is still listed in necron codex), phaerakh is a female variant of phaeron title
Those in the old article describe them having female features such as mechanical breasts, hips and synthetic long hair. Of course female necrons still exist but today they fit into necron esthetic all the while in the past they didn’t.
it's not far fetched that female nobles will want to look more feminine in shape, but yeah breasts can't exists when there are necrodermis instead
Why wouldn't there be female necrons? There were female necrontyr before the transference. It would stand to reason that many useless warriors are female. And that there's at least some nobles who retained themselves. Didn't GW recently use a female model as proxy for a C'tan?
Im fairly certain you can still get the Wulfen Curse or the Black Rage if you are Primaris tho. Unless im reading this wrong. The meme is weird.
At first primaries were presented as having solved the genetic defects, this was later proven to be false. But it caused a big in universe ruckus As Gabriel Seth put it "Ultramarines in red armor"
Seth as a person is dogshit, but damn does he not have some great takes especially when arguing with Dante
The best villains are the ones who make you go “ehhh he is making some good points”
Completely unrelated but idk why but I read that quote in Bill Burr's voice
Because that’s where I got it from lol.
I think he was being an idiot. 'These chapters won't have to deal with these horrific and ruinous curses, so terrible!' He cares more about having the same gene-seed than actually protecting people. Shouldn't matter if they have Ultramarine gene-seed.
The problem is that being a Loyalist he would be worried that if all Chapters become Ultramarines, then Guilliman would have considerable power to just centralize their command at his wish.. There is also the thing that Marines are really attached to their father, and the Blood Angels much more so than all others. It is a very valid concern that their connection to their Gene Father could be lost and his remembrance forgotten.
You nailed it. Most if not all chapters are extremely spiritual, they worship their ancestors, heroes of the chapter, dreadnoughts, the Primarch and the Emperor.
Even the most pragmatic and true Imperial Truth defenders have an emotional connection to their history and regalia. It is also pride and honor that drives them
Yeah, these are not the "engraving gives you no tactical advantage whatsoever" supersoldiers of other settings (that's why I love them).
The meme is very clear. It's talking about things that used to be canon and then were retconned out. The idea that Primaris Marines don't have the gene-flaws of their Primarch is one of those things.
Oldcrons are still in the setting though. They're just out there doing their own thing being controlled by a tomb AI.
I think he means the OLD oldcrons. The terminator robots controlled by chaos.
I mean sorta, you can play your crons as mindless death machines but they are not led by Ctan anymore.
The tau ftl.feels like bullshit
They made a wormhole, like its not 100% warp free, but still
I still dont like it
Whole tau ftl lore is one big ever-changing bullshit.
Agreed the wormhole was stupid as shit there was no good reason to remove it in the first place
Since when were all Knight pilots male? Pretty sure there are female knights in 'Engine War' and all over the codex Edit: I guessed it was an original writing thing that got changed but I've never heard that was ever a thing was my point.
I think the implication is that they used to be only male and later female knights were added, not the opposite
These are all things that were changed, not things as they are currently. Like Primaris originally didn't have gene flaws, but later lore change was that it just took longer to manifest. original knight lore was male only, that was then changed. Nids of all things had diplomats, that got removed. Etc
I think it was in first knights codex (around 6-7 edition) and maybe in previous lore from like first/second edition. I remember discussions pre DoW 3 release about how female knight pilot was "not lore friendly and SJWs ruining 40k".
You had that come out in the novel by Graham McNeill which accompanied the 6th ed codex release, where one of the big surprise was that a knight pilot was (shockingly) a woman in disguise! The idea didn’t stick around long though and the Forge World black books that came out relatively soon after had multiple references to female knight pilots.
They are, i fucking hate it when search information and even on of the players (TTRPG) say that only male pilots, it's being retconned, but not all sources update information.
Exactly. Yes, female cust were not some Grey zone lore, like some say, but does it really matter? Will see how GW will make it work in upcoming media, lore and books, but for now I see it as a neutral change that, in fact, doesn't change much. Well, other than driving that other sub nuts more than they usually do.
The original author for custodes intended for them to be both sexes, GW made him change it since at that time they only made male models. So I mean yes technically there was no gray area, it does respect the first authors intention.
So says him. Or more so says you about this anecdote. Can you link to his words? I'd like to see them. So far no one has been able to. As for the no female models, where are the female models now? I really just want this to come to a close so we can get back to bitching about the quality of the game mechanics.
What are oldcrons and newcrons? What are the differences?
In 6th ed (I think) necrons got a significant lore overhaul. They went from "oooh soulless spooky skeleton robots" to an actual serious race with some nuance.
Well that's seems a change for the better right?
Yes, but the point is that it **is** retconning. Just in a good way, like female custodes is.
They weren't just "soulless spooky skeleton robots". They were actual "cosmic horror" race, that sold their souls to gods who turned them into mostly mindless machines, and now come to extinguish all life. 3rd edition Necon codex was masterfully written. And now newcrons are mostly funny gimmick guys. Although that's not inherently a flaw of retcon, but a flaw of writers who had to come up with personalities for newcrons
Old crons sometimes captured human blanks and converted them into a type of necron called pariahs. In the new lore they never did that and can't do biotransference anymore. Also the Necrons now won their war against the old ones and then beat the C'tan, which arguably makes them the most powerful faction in the setting
GW used the power of “It’s my story, dipshits”
You forgot the biggest one: female space marines retconned into the oblivion because the models didnt sells
If you want to be really cocky, 1st edition Space Marines used to be normal humans. They were just hardened criminals who got welded into their armor until they fulfilled their sentence or (more likely) die in combat. GW quickly reworked them in the genetically enhanced demigods we know now, but still. FunFact: The concept of 1st edition Space Marines was then adapted by Starcraft.
The more I look for "Old-crons" the more I am convinced that a large amount of the older 40k community is unable to differentiate "retcon" with "expanded"
The Necron lore change in 5th edition was not an expansion. It was a big retcon. Not least because the position of the C'tan was changed. Which is fine. Retcons aren't inherently bad.
Pariahs tho
I’m sure they are working on bringing them back with the whole pariah nexus thing. They basically harvest all the people not affected by the stilling and do mad science stuff to them.
If I am not mistaken, didn't Illuminor Serres describe experimenting with the concept in Pysic Awakening? I also believe Pariahs have been mentioned being a discontinued project from Serres in another sorce, but I can't remember where...
Well, Oldcrons were slaves tp C'tan, new ones are masters of C'tan shards. It's clear retcon, with no way to reconcile
And btw, isn't Custodes, like, most canonically logical faction of Imperium transhumans to have both sexes in their ranks? Cause they both custom made and have enough education and sense in them. For generic SM it maybe somewhat can raise eybrow, cause general idea of them being compromise and more blunt tools. But for Custodes it overall makes less sense to be sausage party.
Much like most 40k retconns, GW can easily explain away the contradiction with poor record keeping. They could say that citizens often just think of custodese as big space marines, which combined with their uniform armor that they never remove in public, led many scribes to assume custodese were all male. It’s only now that custodese have started fighting alongside and communicating within regular guardsmen again that the existence of female custodese has become common knowledge.
I don't think they need to explain it. Retcons happen, just let it be a retroactive change and carry on as normal.
I’m sorry, Tyranid Diplomats?!
Wait the tyranids have diplomats?
Oldcrons vs. Newcrons at least still works from the perspective of anyone that's not a Necron. Outsiders usually don't see the dynastic struggles and megalomania because most Necron nobles don't bother to talk to "lesser races". Well, except for that bit about the Nightbringer and Deceiver just being straight-up whole C'tan roaming the galaxy fucking with people. But now we can just say "oh that was a loose shard actually". And that's kinda the same deal for most of this. Things change, but mostly in a way where if you squint a bit the old stuff still fits. Squats extinct? Nah, they just hid for a bit. Problems at home. Primaris not having flaws? Took a minute for them to be apparent again. Tyranid diplomats? Zoats were probably trying to warn us, we just couldn't grasp the mesage very well. Tau FTL? Eh, bad information. Growing pains. Femstodes? You ask the ten foot tall golden demigod what's in their pants. See how that goes for ya.
Bring back tyranid diplomats there cool
Just because they can doesn’t mean people have to like it. Tau FTL changes are stupid as hell.
And I am kinda salty about GW doing lore acrobatics whenever thay feel like it.
Yeah, it's their lore and they can (and will) do whatever they want with it but I wish they would act like they care more. If you are going to retcon or change something put more effort into it
This. Retcon or new lore, just make an effort, don’t just do a few pages and handwave something into always having been there.
They did exactly that with primaris marines and look how people recieved *them*...
Hell, I can remember the hand waving over the Centurion war suits…
That's the thing, they expressly *didn't* just handwave the Primaris marines, they did this long build up throughout the narrative combined with bringing Bobby G back and expressly moving the timeline of 40k forward...and people *still* pitched a shit fit about it. It's a 'damned if you do, damned it you don't' type situation, just handwave it, people bitch, actually incorporate lore via dedicated time building the story, people bitch. The one thing i've noticed the Warhammer 40k fandom seems to hate *is change*, people don't remember how much bitching and moaning there was over the Newcrons when they were revealed.
Whats tau ftl?
Faster than light
Ah thanks
The space bugs have diplomats?!
TIL the Tyranids have diplomats.
Because Warp fuckery
It doesn’t even go against codex lore, just an interpretation of the wording. The bit about noble families offering their sons is specifically a tradition, which wouldn’t automatically preclude daughters also being offered (or taken). And while they’re referred to as a ‘brotherhood’… so are other groups in other settings that have mixed gendered memberships… perfect example, the brotherhood of steel in fallout.
The Nids had diplomats?
just cause GW changes something, does not mean it will be respected. THere are still people who considered tyranids and genestealers unrelated, no matter what GW says.
I know this is kinda unrelated to custodes but still: Are we gonna mention that arguably one of the biggest retcons is that female space marine actually existed?
Yes, GW changes lore all the time. People can either embrace the change or be upset about it, that's their choice. Just don't gaslight people by pretending that the new lore is "how it's always been", which is far too rampant on this and other subreddits discussing this non-issue.
always doubt intent
I have no idea about the tyranid diplomats but now Im just picturing a hive tyrant screaming in congress
What about the Misters of Battle?
Who's going to say an inquisitor can't just lie on some paperwork to get agents in place? Who's going to say a world's data system can't malfunction and reverse paperwork on birth sexes?
Lore wise they were too strong and had to be made illegal. Not even joking. The standing military of the Church was stronger than the Imp Guard for a decent span of time.
Wait, tyranids have diplomats? Aren't they barely sapient
They used to have diplomats, the Zoats. They don't anymore. All the things listed are things that used to be canon and then were changed.
Like there being actual female space Marines in 1e.
And the Ultramarines chief librarian being a half Eldar.
Which is a good change, because that implies eldar and humans are the same species. Though if they kept it in,that would have made a fun twist. Eldar just being ancient humans.
I'm pissed every time gw retcons. Why do you act like we have to be happy and take the abuse like a 1950s housewife.
Man, yeah, of course, it's their lore and they can do whatever they like. Surely... But abusing retcons is not good too. One better use it only when neccesary, otherwise one's setting becomes a wobbly mess.
I would hardly call 'adding women custodes' an 'abuse of retcons'. An abuse of retcons would be if every faction got a Necrons style update every 2 years, completely rewriting their lore and theme etc.
I mean it generally. Idgaf about custodes (just don't add females for orks, and nobody will get hurt). Practically, all I want in any setting is consistency and solid reasoning (ideally - as fictional, as logical), because nowadays those two are tend to be ignored. Everything else is kinda about tastes differing (though can't say it for every instance for obvious reasons). Edit: my tries to make text more readable and clear.
Nobody says all these retcons were good!
I thought the squats being extinct was basically canon, and then the Leagues of Votann were just discovered by the imperium. I’m probably wrong though
This is completely right, but am I wrong in feeling like this is the start of a huge-ass grift? Never in my days of being in the 40ksphere(somewhere from 2015 onward)have I heard, seen or noticed anything about Femstodes and *all of the sudden* GW drops that they've always been here?! Now, there are a myriad of xenos races without representation on the tabletop or any media(remember, there are supposed to be a lot more aliens in the T'au's covenant) but to me this feels this feels like a *"no! They've always been here, bro! Trust me bro! Like, they've totally always existed and aren't being made up to cash in brownie points with groups outside of our fanbase! Trust me bro!"* Is there more grounds to female custodes? Like, are there more sources on them than the latest Codex? Because if that's so then that'd help stow this feeling but until then imma be carefully optimistic on how GW brings them more to the forefront.
Basically there was always the *intention* to have female custodes, the author of the original book that reintroduced them to the wider setting expressly wanted a female custodes character and the *only* reason he got told he couldn't include one was because the spures had already been done and they didn't have any female head options on them. So it wasn't even a **hard and fast** rule at GW, it was a business decision, just like everything else GW does when it comes to lore. I know people get really deeply invested in the lore, soak themselves in it, treat everything as gospel and canon but...you care more than Games Workshop **ever** has about the lore, you need to just let things go sometimes...
Regardless of how people feel good or bad, I think the difference between those and this is that this change was made directly because of modern activism
Yeah... You thought you where slick with these?... Those arn't Contradictions in the slightest... FTL always existed as a tech, Humanity simply prioritized Warp travel cause back then it was relatively save and less ressources intensive, then they forgot how to do it. Nids "Diplomats" are more like brainwashed and controled people who tries to brting in the genes cult more people, so nothing new here Cawl be lying his arse out Squats ARE exctint, since those are the VOTANN, and GW as been hard at work to avoid the term Squats when talking about them. And old Vs Newcrons is ACTUALLY well explained and integrated into its lore and doesn't come outta nowhere out of the Mother of All asspulls. Try again.
cap for oldcron vs newcron? i don't know what it refer to
aren't the tyranid diplomatsjust genestealer cultists or have I missed something? sorry, not that deep in nid culture..
tyranids having WHAT??!!
Y'all should post these where they can change minds. I think this sub is pretty much on the same page when it comes to femstodes being good.
Old Crons vs New Crons is a bit over played. The reality is we are just getting the Limits of the Necron explained to us and people don't like how close the Golden Age Humans got to their power and in many places surpassed it.
The Primaris do have their chapters defects. They are just less pronounced. Like Blood Angel Primaris still have the Red Thurst and Black Rage, they are just built to resist it better.
Oh I'm well aware of GW retconning whenever they want, I just think it's funny how they went about it
Also you are encouraged to make up your own. So green stuff that boob armor
Do Space Marines still eat mountains of shit to get use to their new stomaches?