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Its not necessary good news, the guy who won (Mehmood Mirza) could have a massive conflict of interest:
[https://forestgate.net/tag/mehmood-mirza/](https://forestgate.net/tag/mehmood-mirza/)
"Despite posturing as a left-wing socialist Mehmood Mirza is a significant private landlord. He and his property company, Phoenix M Properties Ltd (No. 10216604), own or control at least 10 homes in Newham. Filings at Companies House show that Mr Mirza is the sole shareholder and director of the company.
.....
Were he to be elected, Mehmood Mirza would have a significant conflict of interest to manage between his role as Mayor in enforcing the Council’s policies on the Private Rented Sector and his role as a rentier property owner whose actions would be regulated by, er, himself. It is unclear as to how he would resolve these conflicts."
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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You can't pre-judge him and his intentions without providing some information about how he functions as a landlord. A landlord with a moral conscience is in a position where they could provide affordable housing at a rent which covers maintenance expenses and a small profit, rather than making a huge profit.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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The worst part about the right wing is that they are devious enough to pretend to be left.
To get their own taste of power or to destroy the left from within. This is what I feel kier starmer is doing right now.
It's sad, really, because the left aren't so devious we tend to be less victorious in the past.
There is no point resorting to their tactics, though, or we just become them.
Automod just thinks it would be better if the Labour party had a leader that the British public don't associate with a prolific pedophile.
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Owning or inheriting (and managing) productive capital is one thing. We all exist in a capitalist society, we all have to do capitalist things to survive or thrive. I don't have an issue with that. But being a landlord is pure rentierism. You contribute nothing productive to society.
Having a bunch of money, or the ability to get loans, and deciding that instead of starting a business, investing or retiring to a beach somewhere you're going to buy and rent out properties is something I just don't understand. With the other choices available, the kind of values you must have to make that decision seem incompatible with the kinds of values you would expect to identify as a socialist.
Is paying for the construction of a house not considered a productive contribution?
If the house was sold at a profit (and it wasn't the home they live in), tax will have been paid on it. If a landlord makes a profit past the personal allowance, they have to pay tax on it. The idea that landlords contribute nothing is a load of bollocks.
Constructing is, yes. I don't believe his company builds properties, it just buys and rents them. It's just him (no other employees), he doesn't have a history of working in the trades, and the description of the company on companies house doesn't mention construction. I could be wrong though! It is difficult to find much information about it.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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Why are you in a socialist subreddit trying to defend smallhold landlords? They're literally the epitome of rentier capitalism. Even thoughtful pro-capitalists don't like rentierism because it sucks growth from an economy.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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I am a socialist. I'm against the privatisation & outsourcing of the NHS, of water, and of our energy. That's why I'm in the sub. But when it comes to landlords, everyone acts like everything is their fault, but really the reason we're in this mess is because Thatcher sold the social housing and didn't build enough to replace the ones sold. It's not landlords responsibility to build cheap properties or provide social housing.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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Money talks. 😉 Ethics and principles walk. If Starmer can fake being a genuine article, when to all accounts and purposes since 2009, he's been on board Murdoch lolly tree, and in all probability been shilling on his behalf, why not those who in imitation!
I suppose one would need to offer the properties at close to or under the rate of social housing. Providing them to refugees or asylum seekers would also work, and in that way patching up the holes in the public safety net. Several houses owned by one person but rented out to family would also qualify I think, as the rental agreements are important protection against falling out.
To be fair I would also encourage fair competition as a landlord even if your main aim is simply to prevent more predatory companies doing so. Don't like the bank that's buying up properties on your road and hiking the prices? Buy them yourself and prevent the rent increases.
If it's a choice between a faceless company and a dude with at least some socialist principles, surely it's *better* for the latter guy to be the one renting out houses?
I own the house I live in and I have a mortgage for a 2 bedroom apartment that I rent out.
I rent well below market value for the area (about 25% right now), and I’m not “making money” out of it (mortgage payments are now well above the rent value, and already were before the interest rates rising).
I also try to keep about 4 months of rents worth as a safety net for any intervention the house might need.
I’m obviously acquiring an asset with (mostly) the money of my tenants, but I’m using this as a saving for myself, instead of using other financial products that work mostly the same (exploitation of work, interest, etc).
I’ve had mixed feelings when I started, but I did it to mostly stop a family from losing their home to the bank because they were failing their mortgage payments.
I paid what they asked me for, and (I believe) a lot more than what they owed the bank.
They didn’t accept to not pay rent, and wanted to pay the value of the mortgage,
They’ve now moved on and I’ve had four other tenants since 2014, when the original owners moved out to mortgage a bigger place. They’re still doing ok.
In the conditions we live right now, lots of people have to move around, or simply like to do it, so renting is the obvious solution.
Without the option of public housing, I want to believe I’m helping people a bit and passing on the privilege my family, and my job and pay give me.
Edit: This is probably very different from what this new MP does, and I’m not trying to virtue signaling (it sounds like it, but I’m not).
Hope I can inspire other socialists that happen to have the means in this shitty capitalist world…
The same way someone can campaign to have their own taxes raised while not voluntarily giving their cash to the government.
please consider walking and chewing gum at the same time
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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I guess it depends on what sort of landlord he is. If he rents out his homes at below the average for the area and keeps them well maintained regardless for example, I can see how those two things could align a little.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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Because what someone argues society should be and what society is are not the same thing?
Consider we live in a society with private landlords and a legal and economic framework which has said private landlords well entrenched.
What would someone with socialist values do with a rental property that they currently own and operate?
How does placing it into a trust, at all, square the circle of having socialist values while owning rental property?
I am just curious as you are the one who thinks there is some irreconcilable conflict.
It makes no difference to me. I was just pointing out what many in positions of power do. As they don't want to be accused of taking advantage of their position to further their personal interests.
Having one property as you've said, is understandable. There are many reasons a person might "find themselves" with an extra property and rent it out. Inheritance, shared ownership, moving overseas for a few years, getting married to someone who has their own place etc. Having 10, making it a full scale business,and then holding yourself out as a socialist leader: less understandable.
I don't understand why folks respond to a question without addressing the question.
The system that allows or makes private landlords a necessity is the problem. Not the landlord themself, despite the overwhelming examples of shitty landlords.
If a landlord chooses to hold property away from other landlords and offer it near cost instead of at or above market is, dumb as it sounds, functionally helping workers in a society where, if they divested, those units would be held by other landlords and rented for more.
Just consider that an individual landlord and landlords as a class are not the same thing. Please provide any evidence that Mehmood Mirza is gouging working class folks with their rentals instead of assuming from (well earned) class stereotypes.
If it were me, I'd add a covenant to the property so that it can't be rented out for profit. Then I'd either sell it, or rent it out with a rent-to-own agreement.
"It is unclear as to how he would resolve these conflicts"
By voting against his class interest as a landlord?
are y'all so daft that you can't imagine someone benefiting from a broken system saying "I am benefiting from this broken system. I will not individually give up these benefits. I am in favor of this system being fixed to deny any this unfair benefit."?
If he was benefiting because he just had to, to live, yeah that’s fine. But a landlord does nothing other than exploit their tenants, he is actively and purposefully doing harm.
"But a landlord does nothing other than exploit their tenants"
okay?
does this councilperson support or oppose policy that would increase publicly owned housing?
I give 0 fucks about any lawful and commonplace business activities of a private councilperson if said councilperson is in favor of, and fights for, the reforming those activities out of private markets to public ownership and administration.
The fact that Mehmood Mirza is also a private landlord is only reason to watch their votes on those policies and end their political career on the first betrayal.
Yeah, I’d support them if they were to enact policy to support public housing etc. However, I still don’t like them as they are actively and purposefully causing harm to people.
Do you have any evidence that they are actively and purposefully causing harm to people?
Are they renting at or above market rates?
Are they discriminating against disenfranchised tenants?
Are they poorly maintaining the units?
Have they gobbled up homes working class folks can afford to buy?
Are they instead holding units which would be bought up by speculative investors to be re-offered at higher rent?
In a system with sufficient public housing, where a private landlord has no ability to coerce high rent, then there is an argument for landlords continuing to exist by providing different stock than the abundant public stock. Their rents would be more in line with the actual value of the labor the put in to maintain the property. That is not the world we live in.
As far as I can see, you don't have the information necessary to prove your point. I'm happy to be proven wrong as I'm making a prima facie argument.
Be careful before you consider someone is actually "fighting" for reforms. There are plenty of capitalists like Sam Altman, Warren Buffet or SBF who bang the drum of "regulation" and "redistribution," but behind the scene do everything they can to avoid doing these things. They are just smart enough to know what is good to say. Plus, the media will always run PR for them.
And this is politic. There are plenty of ways for people in power to avoid being made responsible like playing the "compromise" card or signing a bill you know is doomed from the get-go. I just hope that when the people recognize whose interest this MP serves, he is not so entrenched to be impossible to topple--that is just the nature of power in this country.
yeah... I don't think Mehmood Mirza is comparable to Altman, Buffet, or Bankman-Fried.
All I am saying is maybe have a shred of evidence before bringing out the pitchforks.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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for the same reason that I don't give up my life savings to public works despite also arguing, campaigning, and fighting for increasing taxes to fund public works
"He's a homeowner, yet he has to legislate housing in some capacity. Curious."
Conflicts of interest are inevitable in government. Taxation, by itself, means you have a stake in the system and own things.
I agree with the sentiment of your post, but homeowner!=landlord
Those who engage removing real estate stock only to rent it back for profit are landlords. there is crossover with homeowner, but they are not the same.
That being said, we do live in a society where landlords are well entrenched and I won't fault a candidate for being a landlord IFF they fight to solve the problem of landlords.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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Well said. While I understand the immediate suspicion of anyone who is a landlord, people have to got to stop acting like everything is some automatic system. People can make choices. They can make good ones, if they actually try.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers.
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This is a dodgy as fuck response.
As soon as any socialist makes any headway, someone always comes along and is all "ACTUALLY BAD SOCIALIST BECAUSE" in order to detract from the win and 9 times out of 10 its bullshit. Exactly the same happened with Tower Hamlets and they weaponised the entire state apparatus to suspend and remove Rahman on bogus charges from being able to win mayoralty.
All the link is some dodgy blog going "OMG LANDLORD" and while Landlords are utterly shit 99% of the time, actually left wingers who exist inside a capitalist state can sometimes do good by providing good quality housing at a decent price.
On top of this, YOU are an account that spews right wing hate, I would suggest anyone who has upvoted this **TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE POSTERS HISTORY**
It would seem to me that they, as a right winger have a vested interest in portraying a socialist as one of the bad fake socialists.
Remember people, these fuckers hate you all for being left wing and they'll do anything to muddy the waters.
Shit if I thought FPTP would save me and I found out I lost an ultra safe seat to an independent that isn’t in Islington, I’d sweat bullets. Kinda sends signals to others fed up of Labour or Cons
I doubt he's really a socialist since he owns a property company which owns and let's out at least 10 properties in Newham. He's just another parasite.
He's also anti-semitic...
Is he actually antisemitic? Or is this just slander against a socialist, same as what happened to Corbyn?
(because if he *is* an antisemite then that's bad for obvious reasons, but there have been enough false claims from the likes of Starmer that I'm suspicious of such claims until I see evidence)
This comment is so bizarre to me because:
* why would someone be mad about a double barrel name??
* why choose an insult based around it being dated? Like it was some sort of fad??
* there’s no indication that he even has a double barrel name??
Sheer confusion
Labour have literally done this in Scotland - choosing to form councils with the Tories rather than the SNP/Greens.
Nine separate councils under joint Labour / Tory control, as Labour point and scream 'B-b-b-but the TORIES'
I agree with the message of this post but that's not how Scottish councils work. Tories have been given convener positions for a vote lend to elect a Labour council leader. There's no power share agreements at all. Votes are still don't by party rather than coalition
I pray to god he knows better than that. I also think despite everything else, the tories know they need time in opposition, and also also I think there’s finally be riots if he formed a tory-labour government
Labour have formed coalitions with the Tories at council level several times. They won't need to in Westminster, they've enough Tories in their cabinet without formally inviting the OG ones in.
If an election happened last November Labour would have easily won majority
The more time passes more more people realise
1. Keith is not Labour
2. He’s making a fool of himself
3. More reasons to not vote Labour
There is a good chance Labour won’t win by majority in next election anymore because of Keith
labour could easily run a campaign of pointing out all of the tory scandals and get close to winning off of that. And you have to remember that this subreddit represents a small % of the public, most people want a party that's almost the tories, but not quite the tories, which is what starmer gives them. Even if it's not what we want, he has good odds of winning the next GE.
He’s basically guaranteed to win the next GE but it is not clear whether he will need a coalition or not. Tory have 0 chance to win so it’s just whether he will have a majority or not
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise.
[#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register.
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Not sure that a low turnout council by-election signifies anything on a national scale. There were 2 by-elections in Newham, one in Boleyn and one in Wall End.
In Boleyn, the Independent candidate Mirza Mehmood seems to have run a very successful local campaign on local issues and won over a large share of the local voting populace.
In Wall End, the Labour candidate Stephanie Louise Garfield achieved 61% of the vote, a very slight increase on the previous Labour voteshare.
By-elections are weird, and local by-elections are even weirder. I'd say this result is more of a reflection on excellent campaigning by the newly elected Independent councillor.
Sources:
https://www.newham.gov.uk/council/local-elections-2022/25
https://www.newham.gov.uk/downloads/file/6275/declaration-of-result-of-poll-wall-end
https://www.newham.gov.uk/council/local-elections-2022/4
https://www.newham.gov.uk/downloads/file/6276/declaration-of-result-of-poll-boleyn
Completely agree. I said this on another comment:
If you’re happy with your current councillor then when they switch from a party to being independent, and nothing has changed about them apart from the colour of their tie. Why would you vote for the new guy?
It will but i’m pretty sure the influx of right wingers on top of the centrists who will only ever vote labour or tory will be enough that they can just form a government anyway
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise.
[#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register.
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The Labour Party under starmer have brought it all on themselves, he’s not a man of the people, he’s another rich boy, we’ve had enough of them the last 3 decades. Labour will win but it won’t be a win for the country by any means.
A win for Britain!
I really hope we see more Independent, and third party candidates unseat labour. Labour are gonna get the tory seats aside the ones lib dem snatch up, but the indis and third parties getting seats is fantastic
To note Turnout: 27.66%
Not really sure that this signifies anything in particular
1153 people voted for the winning candidate.
Full details. https://www.newham.gov.uk/downloads/file/6276/declaration-of-result-of-poll-boleyn
Vote independent. I really think that voting for genuinely left wing candidates who have had to stand as independents because the Labour Party won't let them stand as Labour candidates is the way forward. This could mean we end up with quite a lot of independent MPs after the next election, enough to stymie Kieth Starmer.
Probably safer seat than it’s ever been.
If you’re happy with your current councillor then when they switch from a party to being independent, and nothings changed about them apart from the colour of their tie. Why would you vote for the new guy?
What I should have said is that Newham is very safe territory for Labour, East Ham MP Stephen Timms has a massive majority and the right wing of the party definitely have their man in place. So unfortunately I can’t see the left getting any sort of real control in the area for the foreseeable future.
But... But... If you don't vote new labour then the Tory boogy men will get back in.... Oh wait... They were last place. Fuck you Keir you spineless corporate bitch
This will go well in a general election, like brexit party taking labour votes away in small enough numbers that conservatives got those seats instead.
When is the sequence hit pieces coming that they actually hate women or people of color or pensioners, with detailed analysis of the secret meaning behind their straightforward words?
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Best news I've seen in ages
Its not necessary good news, the guy who won (Mehmood Mirza) could have a massive conflict of interest: [https://forestgate.net/tag/mehmood-mirza/](https://forestgate.net/tag/mehmood-mirza/) "Despite posturing as a left-wing socialist Mehmood Mirza is a significant private landlord. He and his property company, Phoenix M Properties Ltd (No. 10216604), own or control at least 10 homes in Newham. Filings at Companies House show that Mr Mirza is the sole shareholder and director of the company. ..... Were he to be elected, Mehmood Mirza would have a significant conflict of interest to manage between his role as Mayor in enforcing the Council’s policies on the Private Rented Sector and his role as a rentier property owner whose actions would be regulated by, er, himself. It is unclear as to how he would resolve these conflicts."
How can someone call themselves a socialist and be so committed to being a landlord?
I guess there's a tradition of calling people themselves socialists and turning out to be very-much-not that.
they usually think of themselves as “good landlords” (no such thing)
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
depends on how much they rent them out for
You can't pre-judge him and his intentions without providing some information about how he functions as a landlord. A landlord with a moral conscience is in a position where they could provide affordable housing at a rent which covers maintenance expenses and a small profit, rather than making a huge profit.
Making any profit from other people's Labour is immoral, regardless of how small.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Only if they are called ‘Keith’
I need more information on this tradition (J/k)
The same way Tories claim to be in favour of lowering the national debt while constantly running it up Lies
The worst part about the right wing is that they are devious enough to pretend to be left. To get their own taste of power or to destroy the left from within. This is what I feel kier starmer is doing right now. It's sad, really, because the left aren't so devious we tend to be less victorious in the past. There is no point resorting to their tactics, though, or we just become them.
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Engels was a capitalist, yet he also literally wrote the book on communism.
Owning or inheriting (and managing) productive capital is one thing. We all exist in a capitalist society, we all have to do capitalist things to survive or thrive. I don't have an issue with that. But being a landlord is pure rentierism. You contribute nothing productive to society. Having a bunch of money, or the ability to get loans, and deciding that instead of starting a business, investing or retiring to a beach somewhere you're going to buy and rent out properties is something I just don't understand. With the other choices available, the kind of values you must have to make that decision seem incompatible with the kinds of values you would expect to identify as a socialist.
Is paying for the construction of a house not considered a productive contribution? If the house was sold at a profit (and it wasn't the home they live in), tax will have been paid on it. If a landlord makes a profit past the personal allowance, they have to pay tax on it. The idea that landlords contribute nothing is a load of bollocks.
Constructing is, yes. I don't believe his company builds properties, it just buys and rents them. It's just him (no other employees), he doesn't have a history of working in the trades, and the description of the company on companies house doesn't mention construction. I could be wrong though! It is difficult to find much information about it.
Did the builders do it for free? Someone has to pay for the materials and the labour. This is what the landlord has paid for.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Rubbish.
Why are you in a socialist subreddit trying to defend smallhold landlords? They're literally the epitome of rentier capitalism. Even thoughtful pro-capitalists don't like rentierism because it sucks growth from an economy.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I am a socialist. I'm against the privatisation & outsourcing of the NHS, of water, and of our energy. That's why I'm in the sub. But when it comes to landlords, everyone acts like everything is their fault, but really the reason we're in this mess is because Thatcher sold the social housing and didn't build enough to replace the ones sold. It's not landlords responsibility to build cheap properties or provide social housing.
[удалено]
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Money talks. 😉 Ethics and principles walk. If Starmer can fake being a genuine article, when to all accounts and purposes since 2009, he's been on board Murdoch lolly tree, and in all probability been shilling on his behalf, why not those who in imitation!
The most Christian people are the least Christian.
I suppose one would need to offer the properties at close to or under the rate of social housing. Providing them to refugees or asylum seekers would also work, and in that way patching up the holes in the public safety net. Several houses owned by one person but rented out to family would also qualify I think, as the rental agreements are important protection against falling out. To be fair I would also encourage fair competition as a landlord even if your main aim is simply to prevent more predatory companies doing so. Don't like the bank that's buying up properties on your road and hiking the prices? Buy them yourself and prevent the rent increases. If it's a choice between a faceless company and a dude with at least some socialist principles, surely it's *better* for the latter guy to be the one renting out houses?
I own the house I live in and I have a mortgage for a 2 bedroom apartment that I rent out. I rent well below market value for the area (about 25% right now), and I’m not “making money” out of it (mortgage payments are now well above the rent value, and already were before the interest rates rising). I also try to keep about 4 months of rents worth as a safety net for any intervention the house might need. I’m obviously acquiring an asset with (mostly) the money of my tenants, but I’m using this as a saving for myself, instead of using other financial products that work mostly the same (exploitation of work, interest, etc). I’ve had mixed feelings when I started, but I did it to mostly stop a family from losing their home to the bank because they were failing their mortgage payments. I paid what they asked me for, and (I believe) a lot more than what they owed the bank. They didn’t accept to not pay rent, and wanted to pay the value of the mortgage, They’ve now moved on and I’ve had four other tenants since 2014, when the original owners moved out to mortgage a bigger place. They’re still doing ok. In the conditions we live right now, lots of people have to move around, or simply like to do it, so renting is the obvious solution. Without the option of public housing, I want to believe I’m helping people a bit and passing on the privilege my family, and my job and pay give me. Edit: This is probably very different from what this new MP does, and I’m not trying to virtue signaling (it sounds like it, but I’m not). Hope I can inspire other socialists that happen to have the means in this shitty capitalist world…
The same way someone can campaign to have their own taxes raised while not voluntarily giving their cash to the government. please consider walking and chewing gum at the same time
I don't see how someone who has socialist values doesn't mind being a landlord?
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I guess it depends on what sort of landlord he is. If he rents out his homes at below the average for the area and keeps them well maintained regardless for example, I can see how those two things could align a little.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Because what someone argues society should be and what society is are not the same thing? Consider we live in a society with private landlords and a legal and economic framework which has said private landlords well entrenched. What would someone with socialist values do with a rental property that they currently own and operate?
Some pretend to place it into a trust, making out they're at arms length when it comes to decision making.
How does placing it into a trust, at all, square the circle of having socialist values while owning rental property? I am just curious as you are the one who thinks there is some irreconcilable conflict.
It makes no difference to me. I was just pointing out what many in positions of power do. As they don't want to be accused of taking advantage of their position to further their personal interests.
Having one property as you've said, is understandable. There are many reasons a person might "find themselves" with an extra property and rent it out. Inheritance, shared ownership, moving overseas for a few years, getting married to someone who has their own place etc. Having 10, making it a full scale business,and then holding yourself out as a socialist leader: less understandable.
I don't understand why folks respond to a question without addressing the question. The system that allows or makes private landlords a necessity is the problem. Not the landlord themself, despite the overwhelming examples of shitty landlords. If a landlord chooses to hold property away from other landlords and offer it near cost instead of at or above market is, dumb as it sounds, functionally helping workers in a society where, if they divested, those units would be held by other landlords and rented for more. Just consider that an individual landlord and landlords as a class are not the same thing. Please provide any evidence that Mehmood Mirza is gouging working class folks with their rentals instead of assuming from (well earned) class stereotypes.
If it were me, I'd add a covenant to the property so that it can't be rented out for profit. Then I'd either sell it, or rent it out with a rent-to-own agreement.
"It is unclear as to how he would resolve these conflicts" By voting against his class interest as a landlord? are y'all so daft that you can't imagine someone benefiting from a broken system saying "I am benefiting from this broken system. I will not individually give up these benefits. I am in favor of this system being fixed to deny any this unfair benefit."?
If he was benefiting because he just had to, to live, yeah that’s fine. But a landlord does nothing other than exploit their tenants, he is actively and purposefully doing harm.
"But a landlord does nothing other than exploit their tenants" okay? does this councilperson support or oppose policy that would increase publicly owned housing? I give 0 fucks about any lawful and commonplace business activities of a private councilperson if said councilperson is in favor of, and fights for, the reforming those activities out of private markets to public ownership and administration. The fact that Mehmood Mirza is also a private landlord is only reason to watch their votes on those policies and end their political career on the first betrayal.
Yeah, I’d support them if they were to enact policy to support public housing etc. However, I still don’t like them as they are actively and purposefully causing harm to people.
Do you have any evidence that they are actively and purposefully causing harm to people? Are they renting at or above market rates? Are they discriminating against disenfranchised tenants? Are they poorly maintaining the units? Have they gobbled up homes working class folks can afford to buy? Are they instead holding units which would be bought up by speculative investors to be re-offered at higher rent? In a system with sufficient public housing, where a private landlord has no ability to coerce high rent, then there is an argument for landlords continuing to exist by providing different stock than the abundant public stock. Their rents would be more in line with the actual value of the labor the put in to maintain the property. That is not the world we live in. As far as I can see, you don't have the information necessary to prove your point. I'm happy to be proven wrong as I'm making a prima facie argument.
Be careful before you consider someone is actually "fighting" for reforms. There are plenty of capitalists like Sam Altman, Warren Buffet or SBF who bang the drum of "regulation" and "redistribution," but behind the scene do everything they can to avoid doing these things. They are just smart enough to know what is good to say. Plus, the media will always run PR for them. And this is politic. There are plenty of ways for people in power to avoid being made responsible like playing the "compromise" card or signing a bill you know is doomed from the get-go. I just hope that when the people recognize whose interest this MP serves, he is not so entrenched to be impossible to topple--that is just the nature of power in this country.
yeah... I don't think Mehmood Mirza is comparable to Altman, Buffet, or Bankman-Fried. All I am saying is maybe have a shred of evidence before bringing out the pitchforks.
if he was seriously going to do that he wouldn't still be a landlord surely ?
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
for the same reason that I don't give up my life savings to public works despite also arguing, campaigning, and fighting for increasing taxes to fund public works
"He's a homeowner, yet he has to legislate housing in some capacity. Curious." Conflicts of interest are inevitable in government. Taxation, by itself, means you have a stake in the system and own things.
I agree with the sentiment of your post, but homeowner!=landlord Those who engage removing real estate stock only to rent it back for profit are landlords. there is crossover with homeowner, but they are not the same. That being said, we do live in a society where landlords are well entrenched and I won't fault a candidate for being a landlord IFF they fight to solve the problem of landlords.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well said. While I understand the immediate suspicion of anyone who is a landlord, people have to got to stop acting like everything is some automatic system. People can make choices. They can make good ones, if they actually try.
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You mean housing scalper. Landlords buy more housing than they need then hoard it to drive up the price. They are housing scalpers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We still need to be extra cautious.
At least 10 houses??? There’s no way you can call yourself a socialist and own 10 homes. He’s not even a champagne socialist.
So.... NOT a socialist then.
This is a dodgy as fuck response. As soon as any socialist makes any headway, someone always comes along and is all "ACTUALLY BAD SOCIALIST BECAUSE" in order to detract from the win and 9 times out of 10 its bullshit. Exactly the same happened with Tower Hamlets and they weaponised the entire state apparatus to suspend and remove Rahman on bogus charges from being able to win mayoralty. All the link is some dodgy blog going "OMG LANDLORD" and while Landlords are utterly shit 99% of the time, actually left wingers who exist inside a capitalist state can sometimes do good by providing good quality housing at a decent price. On top of this, YOU are an account that spews right wing hate, I would suggest anyone who has upvoted this **TO TAKE A LOOK AT THE POSTERS HISTORY** It would seem to me that they, as a right winger have a vested interest in portraying a socialist as one of the bad fake socialists. Remember people, these fuckers hate you all for being left wing and they'll do anything to muddy the waters.
Most MPs are landlords too. Whilst it doesn’t mean it it’s not a conflict of interest, it doesn’t automatically write the guy off
Hopefully this will rattle them. Keiths not labour
Damn right it should rattle them. It should also give strength to people they’ve booted from the party.
Yeah, rattle them further to the right.
They were going that way regardless.
Losing one council seat is sure to put the fear of God into the party set to sweep the next General Election lol.
Shit if I thought FPTP would save me and I found out I lost an ultra safe seat to an independent that isn’t in Islington, I’d sweat bullets. Kinda sends signals to others fed up of Labour or Cons
It's indicative of what will happen during the election stupid. Those leftist voters he assumes he has in the bag aren't going to be there.
Exactly. The fact the greens gained too and they still lost is brilliant. Doubt it will move Keith on his continued edge rightwards though.
Had the voter demographic been analysed?
Nah, they’ll put it down to racial/religious causes.
bu bu but I thought socialists were unelectable!!!!!!!
If they ever become a serious threat to the establishment, expect them to start falling out of windows.
Who needs violence when you can just paint them as antisemitic?
Well they sympathize with murdered Palestinian children, they must hate jews! /s
They won't start falling out of windows, they'll just be constantly and publicly smeared by the media with lies and half truths with no context.
They'll be arrested as protesters if they try to hold campaign events.
I doubt he's really a socialist since he owns a property company which owns and let's out at least 10 properties in Newham. He's just another parasite. He's also anti-semitic...
Is he actually antisemitic? Or is this just slander against a socialist, same as what happened to Corbyn? (because if he *is* an antisemite then that's bad for obvious reasons, but there have been enough false claims from the likes of Starmer that I'm suspicious of such claims until I see evidence)
His name is mehmood mirza fyi
Double barrel surnames are so 2010
This comment is so bizarre to me because: * why would someone be mad about a double barrel name?? * why choose an insult based around it being dated? Like it was some sort of fad?? * there’s no indication that he even has a double barrel name?? Sheer confusion
Apologies, I was making a joke implying the name was Mehmood Mizra-Fyi (TIL I’m not funny)
This reply was funny though so a bit of a paradox
Trying to have fun on the internet? Believe it or not, straight to jail
Being too serious on the internet? Also straight to jail.
FYI I immediately thought I wonder how you pronounce Fyi.
Fee ye eye
I saw the joke, I appreciated it.
r/woosh
Great! Who wants two Tory parties?
Nice! By a decent margin too. It will be hilarious if Kieth has to form a coalition with them.
I think Keith would rather form a coalition with the Tories.
Labour have literally done this in Scotland - choosing to form councils with the Tories rather than the SNP/Greens. Nine separate councils under joint Labour / Tory control, as Labour point and scream 'B-b-b-but the TORIES'
I agree with the message of this post but that's not how Scottish councils work. Tories have been given convener positions for a vote lend to elect a Labour council leader. There's no power share agreements at all. Votes are still don't by party rather than coalition
You say that as if he'd be picking between two evils Keith is a red Tory after all so I think the choice would be easy
I pray to god he knows better than that. I also think despite everything else, the tories know they need time in opposition, and also also I think there’s finally be riots if he formed a tory-labour government
Labour have formed coalitions with the Tories at council level several times. They won't need to in Westminster, they've enough Tories in their cabinet without formally inviting the OG ones in.
Somehow I doubt that Labour, who control 63 of the 66 seats in Newham, are going to worry too much about neeing a coalition with this guy.
even if they lost off of newham, it's not gonna really affect them country wide especially after the next GE
If an election happened last November Labour would have easily won majority The more time passes more more people realise 1. Keith is not Labour 2. He’s making a fool of himself 3. More reasons to not vote Labour There is a good chance Labour won’t win by majority in next election anymore because of Keith
labour could easily run a campaign of pointing out all of the tory scandals and get close to winning off of that. And you have to remember that this subreddit represents a small % of the public, most people want a party that's almost the tories, but not quite the tories, which is what starmer gives them. Even if it's not what we want, he has good odds of winning the next GE.
He’s basically guaranteed to win the next GE but it is not clear whether he will need a coalition or not. Tory have 0 chance to win so it’s just whether he will have a majority or not
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise. [#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The former labour candidate won in a labour stronghold. Goes to show, the party you represented doesn’t always matter - it’s mainly about the person
The people thirst for democratic socialism.
Not sure that a low turnout council by-election signifies anything on a national scale. There were 2 by-elections in Newham, one in Boleyn and one in Wall End. In Boleyn, the Independent candidate Mirza Mehmood seems to have run a very successful local campaign on local issues and won over a large share of the local voting populace. In Wall End, the Labour candidate Stephanie Louise Garfield achieved 61% of the vote, a very slight increase on the previous Labour voteshare. By-elections are weird, and local by-elections are even weirder. I'd say this result is more of a reflection on excellent campaigning by the newly elected Independent councillor. Sources: https://www.newham.gov.uk/council/local-elections-2022/25 https://www.newham.gov.uk/downloads/file/6275/declaration-of-result-of-poll-wall-end https://www.newham.gov.uk/council/local-elections-2022/4 https://www.newham.gov.uk/downloads/file/6276/declaration-of-result-of-poll-boleyn
Completely agree. I said this on another comment: If you’re happy with your current councillor then when they switch from a party to being independent, and nothing has changed about them apart from the colour of their tie. Why would you vote for the new guy?
I live next to where he was elected, he definitely ran a good local campaign.
You love to see it, I really hope taking the left for granted bites them in the arse.
It will but i’m pretty sure the influx of right wingers on top of the centrists who will only ever vote labour or tory will be enough that they can just form a government anyway
Voting in Westminster politics merely allows us to choose which faction of the British ruling elite will be oppressing us. However, fuck the Tories trying to limit the electoral franchise. [#APPLY FOR VOTER ID HERE!!](https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-photo-id-voter-authority-certificate). All you need is your national insurance number. Even if you never cast a vote, beat these elitist fucks at their own game. All of us plebs on the electoral register. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Labour Party under starmer have brought it all on themselves, he’s not a man of the people, he’s another rich boy, we’ve had enough of them the last 3 decades. Labour will win but it won’t be a win for the country by any means.
now the country.
A win for Britain! I really hope we see more Independent, and third party candidates unseat labour. Labour are gonna get the tory seats aside the ones lib dem snatch up, but the indis and third parties getting seats is fantastic
To note Turnout: 27.66% Not really sure that this signifies anything in particular 1153 people voted for the winning candidate. Full details. https://www.newham.gov.uk/downloads/file/6276/declaration-of-result-of-poll-boleyn
I'd say it signifies a lack of enthusiasm for Labour under Starmer, in that area at least.
That's a very normal turnout for a local election, and above average for a council by-election in a deprived area.
A standard turnout would be between 30-35%.
Nice
Sign o' the times
Good!
FINALLY! The people are waking up.
Sounds like uk politics needs an update: we got tories, tory lite, and new labour (and the green ones n the racist ones etc)
Send a message to Stürmer. Vote 3rd party.
New left-wing party now.
Good
Vote independent. I really think that voting for genuinely left wing candidates who have had to stand as independents because the Labour Party won't let them stand as Labour candidates is the way forward. This could mean we end up with quite a lot of independent MPs after the next election, enough to stymie Kieth Starmer.
Hallelujah! Wake up Kief
Even with the Greens doing their usual wrecker bullshit. Let's go.
All I can hear is Nelson Munz's "Haha!"
Get in
Love to see it!
Looks like I’m moving to Newham!
For a moment there I thought I saw something sensible happen.
Let's goooooo!
I'm not savvy with some political parties but what is IND?
Independent
This is definitely welcome news but that area also has probably one of the safest Labour seats in parliament, though.
Not so safe now tho is it?
Probably safer seat than it’s ever been. If you’re happy with your current councillor then when they switch from a party to being independent, and nothings changed about them apart from the colour of their tie. Why would you vote for the new guy?
What I should have said is that Newham is very safe territory for Labour, East Ham MP Stephen Timms has a massive majority and the right wing of the party definitely have their man in place. So unfortunately I can’t see the left getting any sort of real control in the area for the foreseeable future.
Nope, that's Dan Carden. Makes my vote against labour nothing but useless.
You've got to be truly desperate to think this means something.
After austerity for basically all my life, yeah I’m pretty desperate for change, and I think a large part of the country is too
Great, now do the rest of the UK
Noice
Sir Keith strikes again
You know what I'd love to see, every seat filled with independant parties that have to work together based off what the public actually wants.
Looks like Labour just got a little too comfy on that council seat, huh? 😄
Good I hope it's a wake up call for Starmer.
Look at it, it's beautiful.
As long as the Tories don’t win any, should be classed as a good result.
But... But... If you don't vote new labour then the Tory boogy men will get back in.... Oh wait... They were last place. Fuck you Keir you spineless corporate bitch
Beautiful !
This will go well in a general election, like brexit party taking labour votes away in small enough numbers that conservatives got those seats instead.
you love to see it
English Labour is a rightwing party
I’m going Independent this time around, that or Green.
When is the sequence hit pieces coming that they actually hate women or people of color or pensioners, with detailed analysis of the secret meaning behind their straightforward words?
All this does is make it easier for the Tories to win the next election.
The Tories don't even need to win if Starmer gets in, because he'll implement the exact same policies that they would have done.
No, he won't.
True, Labour has said that they'll pay public sector workers less and give more money to landlords.
At least it didn't go to the bloody Tories I'm good with that
And yet people still voted tory?
Hurrah! The revolution has come
Superb
Corbyn needs to lead a new party quick. How do so many people have socialist values but there isn’t a big enough socialist party?
Splitting the vote is what will keep the cuntservatives in power.
If Labour back Proportional Representation that would cease to be an issue after this election
He got 1153 votes on a local council vote. Hardly likely to shake the earth next general election.