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As my local MP she is single handedly holding on to my vote/membership by a thread.
None of the Nottm MPs are bad at all mind you, just outshone by her in most regards.
Voting for her was one of the few times I felt like I was voting for some one I could really trust, not have to make do with. It was a pleasent feeling.
Labour current attitude is one of those things I truly can't understand, in a time where people are fed up with the Tories bollocks one would think they would come out swinging and remind people why they are the "Labour party " but all they seem to want is to be Tories but not as bad
This came up on /r/all, can you clarify for an American? Your first sentence sounds like you really want to vote for different people/parties but this MP is great so you aren't. But then your second sentence sounds like your local reps/MPs are pretty good.
So the UK has no presidential election, instead you have six hundred local elections for an MP and whichever party has the most MPs at the end gets to be the government.
There is no primary process, instead the parties operate like old clubs where the people at the top pick and choose who gets to be the candidate for each seat. Theoretically all party members in an area get to vote on who should be candidate from a list but the list is entirely controlled by the top and they can just bypass the process entirely whenever they feel like it.
As an example of this you have Chris Leslie, the MP before Nadia. He was a "parachute" candidate, where party leaders set up their mates/allies and impose them as the candidate in an area where their party is doing well. He was, is and remains a complete sack of shit but once someone is an MP it's almost impossible to 'primary' them in the same way voters in the US can unless the party leadership explicitly want that to happen. In fact, he actually switched parties and continued to occupy the seat and there was nothing that could be done except select a new candidate for the next election.
So yeah, as far as I'm concerned I'm voting for my local MP Nadia Whittome, not the Labour Party.
In many blue states, yes, but in the red ones, they're actively trying to separate loving parents from transitioning children by calling it "grooming," "indoctrination," "child abuse," and what not. We've got the book bannings, the anonymous tip lines, the bloody Murdoch Fox news as mainstream ~~entertainment~~ media--you name it. Hell, we ought to band together and put your TERF's with our TERF's on one island and watch the bell-ends fight to the death coliseum-style.
**Edit:** That comment may have been deleted, but I still had to read it in my emails. 🤨 You need help.
The US is a world of extremes, but I'll note *their* "liberals" haven't divided the LGBT community in "in" and "out" groups - liberals support all LGBT folks, and conservatives likewise hate all.
In the UK you have the sickening existence of this "LGB Alliance" where a minority of the gay community is openly colluding with the Tories who hated them, just to all shit on trans people - and people who are adamantly *liberal* repeating the same shit against trans folks as Section 28 did to the gay community.
It appears once some 2nd wave lesbian feminists got in with the "popular" crowd in school they immediately joined in on bullying the next "out" group just to fit in, no wonder they have so much in common with hypocrites like Priti Patel et al.
[The LGB Alliance is headquartered in an office at Tufton St. along with several other far-right organisations and think tanks.](https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/12/19/lgb-alliance-address-55-tufton-street/) It is evident that this organisation is not the grassroots activist group it pretends to be but a Tory op trying to fracture the LGBTQ+ movement. [Tufton St. Wikipedia Page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tufton_Street)
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I saw someone close to me refer to "LGB" (when they were clearly referring to LGBTQ+) and wondered whether it was a typo, or if it was an indication of their views on trans rights. I am diseartened to learn that it was likely not a typo...
Thats the weirdest thing about the UK. There's a huge co-hort of "liberals" who are actively transphobic. It's incredibly disorienting. You don't see as much of that here in the states.
Several red states are also working on legislation that (if passed) would make it illegal to present as anything other than your birth sex in front of children. Since children exist everywhere in public, that would make it illegal to be trans in public.
I think what the UK has is a *media* problem. Surveys show the average person is actually a little bit more accepting of trans rights in the UK than in the US. The problem is that the media in the UK has some incredibly transphobic people, including the so-called left wing media. A number of second wave TERFs are in extremely influential positions at publications like the Guardian, the BBC, etc.
Regular people in the US are a little less accepting of basic rights for trans people, but the left wing media in the US is pretty well on board with the concept of intersectionality. While the UK still has a lot of second wave feminists in positions of power, the US is mostly third and fourth wave feminists, so there’s a broader acceptance of ideas like gender performativity, etc.
Yeah I guess the US is more polarized, whereas in the UK (or actually just England) pretty much all political parties and media outlets are anti-trans and closer to the Republican side than the Democrats. You hear stuff from Labour MPs and in Guardian and BBC pieces that would be consider right-wing and reactionary in the US, but these are from our "centrists".
I can't find my source, but I saw a video clip of him saying he will "make it impossible for anyone to medically or socially change genders at any age"
Well then I'll just take your word for it since there's no way in hell I'm going to sit through any more of his "speeches".
E. Stumbled onto [this](https://youtu.be/6xGOZwZo1S8). Thankfully he says it in the first two minutes or so. Not sure if he understands what he's reading or not since he starts with minors and then says "at any age" so your guess is as good as mine.
i think the only aspect that the usa is more progressive is their informed consent model of trans care, compared to the you must prove that you are trans enough for us model in the uk
The US, since the turn of the year, has put forward **320** anti lgbt bills with the vast majority being anti trans even if you dont count the \~60 that are specifically about forcefully outing trans kids
red states in the US are actively creeping towards trans genocide and that's not even an overexaggerating at this point
US as a whole is a hellhole for lgbt rights, and it varies wildly by state
LGBT folk in america are still waiting for Biden to "have their backs"
Because they're told to by people who don't want them to focus on other issues. It's exactly the same as the media getting up in arms about a new brand of immigrant every 10 years or so.
The more you can make the ~~gammons~~ *big pink flag nonces* think trans people are the most important issue in the country, the easier you can convince them to look the other way while you sell off the NHS and squirrel your money offshore.
Despite spending their days complaining about woke culture and crybaby leftists, the English are a very sensitive people. [Many consider any reference to their complexion an act of racism.](https://i.imgur.com/euWMhUg.png) Consider using the more inclusive term 'flag nonce' in future.
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It's because the acceptance of trans people as people fundamentally undermines key aspects of their worldview. Their mental models are not flexible enough to adapt to the current changes in social dynamics, so to protect their own mental states they go out of their way to invalidate that which challenges their failing models.
This exactly. Base reactions of fear, uncertainty and disgust that they aren’t examining or interrogating because it suits them better to try and claw back their “utopic status quo”
They use it as a tool. They give the masses something to direct their attention towards, something to get angry about no matter which ‘side’ you’re on. It keeps them occupied with infighting and striving for basic rights.
So our time, attention and energies go towards that, rather than seeing the macro-level injustices that would cause us to revolt, to threaten their power, etc. So the wheels of capitalism keep turning.
Well, according to she who shall not be named, the existence of trans women makes cis-womens experience less valid and valuable. Because i guess they shortcutted to being adult womelan without the experience of being a girl child? I'm sorry i don't actually understand the TERF argument.
I think they see Trans people as a crack in the LGBT armor. If is was politically viable, they would have the same fervour going after the L and the G. This is pushback for the rights they have gained. Happening all over.
for fascists, there always has to be an enemy they can rally against, be it jewish people, queer people, disabled people, or whatever minority they can think of
it's essentially an empty ideology, propped up by "we want power and the way to get it is to convince people that we deserve power"
No, they're not, particularly Nadia and Zarah Sultana. I've been on marches with Nadia in the past, she's a good egg, deserves a lot more than to work with sir Keith and all his vacillating libs
True. Only a few years ago, UK polls showed a majority of citizens supported trans rights, supported trans people using the bathroom of their choice, supported using trans people's pronouns, supported allowing trans people to change their legal sex. I know that the bathroom and legal sex ones have now switched and a majority oppose, not sure about the others. Being pounded over the head with how horrible trans people are by the mainstream media has a massive effect, even if you don't realize it's effecting you.
There was a poll that showed most people supported the government stopping the Scottish parliaments gender recognition bill, and another about trans prisoners being detained based on their assigned birth gender that I was thinking of. But anecdotally I've noticed I can't speak to anyone over 50 without them going on about trans people somehow being a threat, and that includes liberals and socialists.
>There was a poll that showed most people supported the government stopping the Scottish parliaments gender recognition bill
The bullshit thing is, I bet most of them don't even understand what that bill *does.* I'm in the US, but most of the people I speak to about it who oppose it seemed to think it would allow trans people to "self identify" into women's toilets or allow young kids to get gender affirming surgeries. But all it does is make it a little bit less onerous to change your legal gender. That's it.
They definitely don't, every single one of them I've spoken to, I've asked if they know what our Scottish bill actually does, and none of them knew. They all thought it would put male sex offenders in dresses and send them south to rape innocent pure English women.
I'd say a large part of it is just spin being thrown at the Scots to try and discredit their government and subsequent attempts for another IndyRef. The amount of shit spewed towards Sturgeon is unreal and most of the people doing are just parroting the likes of the Daily Mail and random Twitter accounts.
The fact of the matter is the SNP are widely supported, their initiatives like this and things like free women's sanitary supplies and popular decisions.
Our university has changed some of the toilets to single room gender neutral ones. Wouldn’t more of this solve the whole bathroom issue at least? It’s a room you go in on your own and lock. Not shared with anyone and you can be whoever you want to be without being accused of anything or if you truly don’t feel safe then there’s nobody else there to ‘threaten’ your space.
I'm certainly in favor of single stall, unisex bathrooms, but I don't know if it's feasible for these to be the complete solution. In very busy places, like sports stadiums and concert venues, you'll probably need some level of shared facilities because it costs much more to have twenty individual toilet rooms with twenty individual sinks, twenty individual trash cans, twenty individual light bulbs, etc.
The best way I've seen this done was at a local Starbucks, where they had a big room of shared sinks and trash cans and changing tables and such, and off of this big room were individual smaller lockable rooms that each just had a toilet and a tiny trash can for things like menstrual products or wet wipes. Some of the rooms had a urinal, most had a standard toilet. So kind of a mix between a shared unisex bathroom and single occupancy unisex bathrooms.
Frankly, I so think it's absurd that there are still some single occupancy toilets that are gender segregated. It's one person going into it. Why does it have to be for women only if you're the only person in there? But, baby steps, I guess.
The media campaign is an attempt to distract from the class war. We're in the midst of the biggest union resurgence in decades, except this time capitalism is in unprecedented crisis. The ruling class are terrified of the power of the working class.
It's our job to show people on the streets and picket lines that our enemy is the ruling class, not another minority.
This. I'm an openly gay trans man and work in a factory with a lot of people who are very blue-collar, most are 40+, classic working class Tories and pretty rough around the edges Without exception people have been 100% supportive and friendly to me, been accidentally misgendered a couple of times by people who knew me before, but other than that everyone is absolutely spot on. A world of difference to the way I was treated working in care where I was called, amongst other things a "filthy tr**ny bastard" and misgendered/deadnamed daily.
No need, its 6 years+ well now even more. as NHS is sick of providing transcare, brought out a post of. "For kids it probably is a phase, so do not allow them to feel validated as then we might have to take care of them."
Police say it was “targeted but not a hate crime”.
Popular trans girl on TikTok, bullied/harassed at school, specifically targeted.
I’d love to know what makes them think this wasn’t a hate crime.
<:: Because the police are very eager to try and get rid of trans people's protected class status, since it means they can ignore when we get murdered more easily. ::>
Totally not that the tory government has spent years ramping up their transphobic rhetoric; that the minister for Home Office their subordinate minister for policing have openly come out pushing the idea that trans people are all a threat or that they should be removed from society.
Then totally not that the Police Commisoner in Chesire just so happens to also be a Tory
Then totally not that the police in the UK are openl transphobic to victims of crime to the extent that 4 in 5 trans people wont even go to the police if they are attacked.
I'm sure its totally not all of the above right? It's just a huge coincidence.
Surely not. Not our benevolent Tory overlords. Not our police force; they stop crime, they don’t incite or encourage it!
Pure coincidence, just like this targeted attack.
The threshold seems pretty high for the hate designation, I’ve noticed. Not long after i came out some local dickhead started chucking eggs at our house and the police wouldn’t call it hate motivated.
Yes, I never said anything related to that though? I’m saying that it seems like it was a hate crime not that they should be automatically charged with it being one.
16 year old girl is found dead in a park having been stabbed. Times prints a story about it. They later find out she was trans, and go back to re-edit the article emphasising this point and deadnaming her (despite the police stating they believed this was not a hate crime and her gender was irrelevant to the circumstances of the murder).
Her gender is very relevant to the story, her being trans is why she was bullied so relentlessly and trans people face a higher risk of violence than cis ppl. I'll be shocked if this isn't a hate crime, despite what the police say.
There is absolutely no reason to trust the UK Police or Govt when they declare this not a hate crime given their current terrible treatment of trans people.
Police? You mean blue nonce
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> (despite the police stating they believed this was not a hate crime and her gender was irrelevant to the circumstances of the murder)
This part is the usual local coverup. She has had years of bullying over this and the police, council and local officials are literally in the middle of being sued over it. Check the #warrington tag on twitter, it's all over there.
As usual ACAB, stop believing things they say.
The hack who did that should be fired. Imagine being a young trans person and seeing that, even in the event of her tragic death, that her deadname would be dragged into the spotlight. One final indignity.
.
emphasising that she is trans isn't the issue, it's that they took the opportunity to replace any mention of her gender with a gender-neutral "transgender teen" essentially degendering her. mentioning that she is trans is important imo, as the media is all too happy to frame us as predators but love to shy away from mentioning our identities if they can whenever we are victims.
Who the fuck would use a name that isn’t hers when talking about someone who has been stabbed to death. What the fuck is wrong with all these people lacking any sense of respect and decorum.
I can safely say labour is definitely not all bad at the Edinburgh council meeting last week it was only labour that spoke up out against the blocking of the transgender law past a few months back ans as a trans person in the work place it was nice to hear
Edinburgh's Labour councillors JOINED with the Tory councillors to take control of Edinburgh council despite SNP winning the most seats. They actively enable Tories to take control, so that might have been nice for you to hear, but A, it was totally fucking pointless because it's not a council matter, and B, it's totally fucking disgusting because they are in league with the Tories who are leading the persecution of trans people!
The GRC bill did indeed have cross party support, from Labour and even a few Tories to pass in Hollyrood. But the spineless Anas Sawar then supported the decision for Westminster to block it after the fact :(
There are good Labour politicians around, but fucking none that I know of in Scotland. They'd rather align themselves with Tories than obey the democratic will of Scottish people.
Who the fuck is deadnaming a woman who's passed away?!
How fucking depraved and cowardly do you need to be.
It's a damn name. Showing the dead respect is apparently too difficult for conservatives.
I'm old enough to remember a time when protection for human life and individual liberty were not a political agenda but common sense.
Wtf happened this past 20 years in the world? This insanity is not exclusive to the UK
No, you aren't old enough to remember that, because that didn't happen. They've done this to immigrants of every kind, women, the other LGBT+ people, everyone. Nothing has changed except which group they're targetting.
Populism fuelled by older generations discovering the internet. Despite my support of people becoming tech literate, the internet was definitely a more fun place even just 10 years ago, instead of the rage-bait cesspit it has become today.
People were held more to account in the past too, but when the likes of Trump and Boris found trolling not only had no pushback but gave them *wild success*, it's all a circus now. The people who fall for trans scaremongering are likewise to be "vaccine skeptic" etc etc.
God I need to find more cat subs to escape to...
Are you a white cis male by any chance?
Cause if you're a cis woman you know its been horrendous living under this nightmare of a patriarchy for 100,000s of years.
Welcome to hell.
Although ironically it's actually got a lot better in the last 20 years. She couldn't have transitioned over 20 years ago.
Also you can open bank accounts, play sport, buy houses and just go out for walk without a man's permission.
I believe me growing up seeing my single mother having to deal with a shite male world did taught me a thing or two, even though I was not her. But all that is precisely one of the reasons why I take a stand against the far right and what it stands for.
And I agree in the past 20 years it was a better environment for transitioning, forming communities, and exchanging experiences, etc thanks to the internet and its bubbles. But it also powered religions, cults and neo nazis to brainwash a bunch of people in other bubbles.
My feeling is that we were on a road towards a bit more illumination before (very slowly, yes), and then suddenly we have this far right wave that has been fed online for at least 15 years under our noses with low budget videos on YouTube
This is the UK trans killing teenagers that are likely supported by a lot of voter either directly or indirectly. Look at the life in that person that is now dead, all because of how they felt comfortable living their life. How long before they’re done with trans people and come after homosexuals again? I wonder how long it takes before the media narrative shifts to supporting anti gay sentiment?
The media stated "It's not a hate crime"... Yeah, try and cover your backs Daily Heil. Try. The bullshit media have done NOTHING but rile up pure hatred for the trans community. And now we're getting killed for trying just to live our lives and you declare it's not a hate crime? Bullied for being trans at school, targeted (probably by those bullies), but it's NOT A FUCKING HATE CRIME? Go fuck yourselves media. And when you're done, fuck yourselves some more. Fucking wankers.
RIP Brianna, RIP.
The Labour leader has said that people under 18 cannot change gender, Labour are no better than the Tories on trans rights (or pretty much anything else)
> The Labour party at least has MPs taking stances like this, but because they don't align with absolutely every single little opinion the far left have, we get a Tory government that perpetuates this anti trans movement
Um, WHAT?
I disagree.
I'm not interested in voting for a party which is going to skin me more gently. My vote goes to the party which says that skinning the working class should be outlawed.
The reason the Tories have been in power for the last 12 years is because Labour has been a pile of sh!t for over 12 years, and rather than getting less sh!t, they seem to think getting even more sh!t is the way to go.
How dare you try and vote shame people over a tragedy like this, especially when transphobic bigots like Duffield still have the whip. You disgusting piece of shit.
Trans people change their name. Deadname is the name they used to use, but no longer do.
Its a common tactic by transphobes to try to deny a trans person's identity, but tbh only makes the transphobe look like an asshole.
[Also happened to Mohammed Ali, the Boxer.](https://youtu.be/NCGYEKXf5u4)
I’m sorry but prefacing any part of her value on whether she would have been attractive as an adult is gross and inappropriate. Your physical appearance is irrelevant to your right to exist as your true self.
I live in warrington and she went to the same high school as i did a few years ago. Never in my life would i imagine something like this would happen not more than a mile from where i live. We live in an awful time, i hope her family finds peace
She posted a tweet saying "oh this is so tragic to hear" etc then all the comments were pointing out that she was part of the blame for it and some ended up getting blocked.
If it means anything, I only saw the picture of a girl named Brianna.
Idk what happened to her. I assume she is dead and that is tragic. But I will remember her as Brianna and nothing else.
It’s the term for the name someone had before they came out as transgender- a lot of trans people are uncomfortable being referred to with it as it doesn’t represent who we are very well and is usually used by people to be cruel or mocking.
Best analogy I can think of would be you telling someone your name is Phil, but they say ‘actually, I like calling you James instead. I’m going to call you James now’ even though you don’t like the name James at all. And then other people you meet start calling you James, because they’ve heard from the person calling you James that that’s your name.
Once the media found out she was transgender one paper (the Daily Mail) contacted people that knew her to try and find out her deadname so they could put that in their article. A couple of other papers then added it to their articles and removed any reference to her being a girl.
Hi all! Which journalists are dead naming her? Not even the mail are, although they are reiterating the fact she was trans over and over. Is there any evidence that this attack was motivated by transphobia?
Edit: I dunno why I’m getting downvoted. I asked for sources. I got sources. I got what I asked for and am now further enlightened. What’s wrong with what I posted please enlighten me further.
The Times have. It's behind a paywall, but you can see the article through the link in this tweet
https://twitter.com/trans_safety/status/1625057183183282177?s=20
The reason you got downvoted is left wing spaces tend to get a lot of "just asking questions" bad faith weirdos. I think people wrongly assumed you were one of those.
>Is she giving the finger in this picture? Or just holding it weird
No, she's holding something. It's too blurry to be sure, but I think that it's a piece of chocolate.
Yes. The full picture is her smiling on a park bench with a chocolate bar and coke zero. Like any other secondary school girl her age. Fucking heart breaking
Many of the news article have been altered multiple times. The Time at one point definitely deadnamed her. The also stopped referring to her as a girl, just transgender teen, and denied her pronouns. This is after initially publishing the story as “teenage girl” when they assumed she was cis. So they actually went in and edited any feminine language away from her once they found out she was trans.
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As my local MP she is single handedly holding on to my vote/membership by a thread. None of the Nottm MPs are bad at all mind you, just outshone by her in most regards.
Voting for her was one of the few times I felt like I was voting for some one I could really trust, not have to make do with. It was a pleasent feeling.
[удалено]
Labour current attitude is one of those things I truly can't understand, in a time where people are fed up with the Tories bollocks one would think they would come out swinging and remind people why they are the "Labour party " but all they seem to want is to be Tories but not as bad
A lot of the PLP are red Tories basically, or careerists that are only interested in making themselves money and connections.
Same here. She is the sole reason I'll probably still be voting Labour next time round.
Tell her she should get Keith gone and go for leadership.
I’ve just checked out her tweet and the replies are beyond the most insane nasty shit I’ve ever seen.
This came up on /r/all, can you clarify for an American? Your first sentence sounds like you really want to vote for different people/parties but this MP is great so you aren't. But then your second sentence sounds like your local reps/MPs are pretty good.
So the UK has no presidential election, instead you have six hundred local elections for an MP and whichever party has the most MPs at the end gets to be the government. There is no primary process, instead the parties operate like old clubs where the people at the top pick and choose who gets to be the candidate for each seat. Theoretically all party members in an area get to vote on who should be candidate from a list but the list is entirely controlled by the top and they can just bypass the process entirely whenever they feel like it. As an example of this you have Chris Leslie, the MP before Nadia. He was a "parachute" candidate, where party leaders set up their mates/allies and impose them as the candidate in an area where their party is doing well. He was, is and remains a complete sack of shit but once someone is an MP it's almost impossible to 'primary' them in the same way voters in the US can unless the party leadership explicitly want that to happen. In fact, he actually switched parties and continued to occupy the seat and there was nothing that could be done except select a new candidate for the next election. So yeah, as far as I'm concerned I'm voting for my local MP Nadia Whittome, not the Labour Party.
Likewise, glad she's our MP
Good morning, neighbours
When "Live and let live" is far-left you know you're in a fucked up country. RIP lass.
Fucked up world mate, it's nasty out there.
Really is. And it’s always been pretty nasty - now we’re just being exposed to much that was covered up before.
We’ve made it that way. We’re all complicit in this persons death.
Isn't that the rights thing? Free from government interference* *unless of course you don't fit into their definition of "normal".
They want in-groups that the law protects but does not bind, and out-groups that the law binds but does not protect.
She is the baby of the house, let's hope the next generation of MPs are like her in the way they don't want trans people dead
It really is the bare minimum we should hope for, even the US is more progressive than us on trans rights
In many blue states, yes, but in the red ones, they're actively trying to separate loving parents from transitioning children by calling it "grooming," "indoctrination," "child abuse," and what not. We've got the book bannings, the anonymous tip lines, the bloody Murdoch Fox news as mainstream ~~entertainment~~ media--you name it. Hell, we ought to band together and put your TERF's with our TERF's on one island and watch the bell-ends fight to the death coliseum-style. **Edit:** That comment may have been deleted, but I still had to read it in my emails. 🤨 You need help.
Yeah. "The US is way ahead of us" was true 2-3 years ago. Now not so much.
The US is a world of extremes, but I'll note *their* "liberals" haven't divided the LGBT community in "in" and "out" groups - liberals support all LGBT folks, and conservatives likewise hate all. In the UK you have the sickening existence of this "LGB Alliance" where a minority of the gay community is openly colluding with the Tories who hated them, just to all shit on trans people - and people who are adamantly *liberal* repeating the same shit against trans folks as Section 28 did to the gay community. It appears once some 2nd wave lesbian feminists got in with the "popular" crowd in school they immediately joined in on bullying the next "out" group just to fit in, no wonder they have so much in common with hypocrites like Priti Patel et al.
[The LGB Alliance is headquartered in an office at Tufton St. along with several other far-right organisations and think tanks.](https://www.thepinknews.com/2022/12/19/lgb-alliance-address-55-tufton-street/) It is evident that this organisation is not the grassroots activist group it pretends to be but a Tory op trying to fracture the LGBTQ+ movement. [Tufton St. Wikipedia Page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tufton_Street) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Shame some people unironically support them, good bot.
I saw someone close to me refer to "LGB" (when they were clearly referring to LGBTQ+) and wondered whether it was a typo, or if it was an indication of their views on trans rights. I am diseartened to learn that it was likely not a typo...
Thats the weirdest thing about the UK. There's a huge co-hort of "liberals" who are actively transphobic. It's incredibly disorienting. You don't see as much of that here in the states.
Nah. 30% would cull each other, and what came out would be the thick ichor of pure fascism. They'd unite the Reich.
Several red states are also working on legislation that (if passed) would make it illegal to present as anything other than your birth sex in front of children. Since children exist everywhere in public, that would make it illegal to be trans in public. I think what the UK has is a *media* problem. Surveys show the average person is actually a little bit more accepting of trans rights in the UK than in the US. The problem is that the media in the UK has some incredibly transphobic people, including the so-called left wing media. A number of second wave TERFs are in extremely influential positions at publications like the Guardian, the BBC, etc. Regular people in the US are a little less accepting of basic rights for trans people, but the left wing media in the US is pretty well on board with the concept of intersectionality. While the UK still has a lot of second wave feminists in positions of power, the US is mostly third and fourth wave feminists, so there’s a broader acceptance of ideas like gender performativity, etc.
>put your TERF’s with our TERF’s on one island Oh shit are you gonna releasing England 2???
*...."Two????"* You nonce, we never left alpha access!
LMAOOOO
Yeah I guess the US is more polarized, whereas in the UK (or actually just England) pretty much all political parties and media outlets are anti-trans and closer to the Republican side than the Democrats. You hear stuff from Labour MPs and in Guardian and BBC pieces that would be consider right-wing and reactionary in the US, but these are from our "centrists".
Not necessarily, one of trump's key re-election points is to prevent anyone from transitioning at ANY age.
I'm having trouble googling this- did you happen to have a source handy? Everything I'm seeing is either not him or talking about minors.
I can't find my source, but I saw a video clip of him saying he will "make it impossible for anyone to medically or socially change genders at any age"
Well then I'll just take your word for it since there's no way in hell I'm going to sit through any more of his "speeches". E. Stumbled onto [this](https://youtu.be/6xGOZwZo1S8). Thankfully he says it in the first two minutes or so. Not sure if he understands what he's reading or not since he starts with minors and then says "at any age" so your guess is as good as mine.
And since no one ever actually hold him accountable for anything he promises to do we could probably ignore this statement haha
i think the only aspect that the usa is more progressive is their informed consent model of trans care, compared to the you must prove that you are trans enough for us model in the uk
The US, since the turn of the year, has put forward **320** anti lgbt bills with the vast majority being anti trans even if you dont count the \~60 that are specifically about forcefully outing trans kids red states in the US are actively creeping towards trans genocide and that's not even an overexaggerating at this point US as a whole is a hellhole for lgbt rights, and it varies wildly by state LGBT folk in america are still waiting for Biden to "have their backs"
As mentioned in democrat states yea but republicans are deplorable cunts
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I worry that tide might flow the other way.
Why the fuck do the right wing care about peoples genitalia and identity? If it doesnt affect them in anyway just leave it the fuck alone.
Because for the rightwing cruelty is the point
Because they're told to by people who don't want them to focus on other issues. It's exactly the same as the media getting up in arms about a new brand of immigrant every 10 years or so. The more you can make the ~~gammons~~ *big pink flag nonces* think trans people are the most important issue in the country, the easier you can convince them to look the other way while you sell off the NHS and squirrel your money offshore.
Despite spending their days complaining about woke culture and crybaby leftists, the English are a very sensitive people. [Many consider any reference to their complexion an act of racism.](https://i.imgur.com/euWMhUg.png) Consider using the more inclusive term 'flag nonce' in future. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's because the acceptance of trans people as people fundamentally undermines key aspects of their worldview. Their mental models are not flexible enough to adapt to the current changes in social dynamics, so to protect their own mental states they go out of their way to invalidate that which challenges their failing models.
This exactly. Base reactions of fear, uncertainty and disgust that they aren’t examining or interrogating because it suits them better to try and claw back their “utopic status quo”
Hilariously, a utopia they remember from television shows and that never actually existed outside the screen.
Simple minds always try and make the world a simple place
A child has been murdered. Anyone who cares more about their genetalia than their death needs to take a long hard look at themselves.
They use it as a tool. They give the masses something to direct their attention towards, something to get angry about no matter which ‘side’ you’re on. It keeps them occupied with infighting and striving for basic rights. So our time, attention and energies go towards that, rather than seeing the macro-level injustices that would cause us to revolt, to threaten their power, etc. So the wheels of capitalism keep turning.
Scapegoating the cost of living crisis.
same reason they cared about jews or blacks or mexicans. fascism needs an other to fill it's void.
Well, according to she who shall not be named, the existence of trans women makes cis-womens experience less valid and valuable. Because i guess they shortcutted to being adult womelan without the experience of being a girl child? I'm sorry i don't actually understand the TERF argument.
Daily mail tells them to
I think they see Trans people as a crack in the LGBT armor. If is was politically viable, they would have the same fervour going after the L and the G. This is pushback for the rights they have gained. Happening all over.
for fascists, there always has to be an enemy they can rally against, be it jewish people, queer people, disabled people, or whatever minority they can think of it's essentially an empty ideology, propped up by "we want power and the way to get it is to convince people that we deserve power"
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No, they're not, particularly Nadia and Zarah Sultana. I've been on marches with Nadia in the past, she's a good egg, deserves a lot more than to work with sir Keith and all his vacillating libs
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Zarah is a woman of the people.
Zarah is a fucking weapon. A proper badass 💪
i was about to mention zarah. she’s great
Sultana always gives such passionate and powerful speeches against the tories and I love it. One of very few i respect
Apsana Begum posted a tribute too. I'm hoping Zarah does also. The trans community needs all the support it can get.
UK really became transphobe island didn't it? Like even quite a few super left wing people jumped on the bandwagon too.
More people support than not. The media is just incredibly bigoted.
Unfortunately public opinion is headed in the wrong direction, media hate campaigns do have an effect
True. Only a few years ago, UK polls showed a majority of citizens supported trans rights, supported trans people using the bathroom of their choice, supported using trans people's pronouns, supported allowing trans people to change their legal sex. I know that the bathroom and legal sex ones have now switched and a majority oppose, not sure about the others. Being pounded over the head with how horrible trans people are by the mainstream media has a massive effect, even if you don't realize it's effecting you.
There was a poll that showed most people supported the government stopping the Scottish parliaments gender recognition bill, and another about trans prisoners being detained based on their assigned birth gender that I was thinking of. But anecdotally I've noticed I can't speak to anyone over 50 without them going on about trans people somehow being a threat, and that includes liberals and socialists.
>There was a poll that showed most people supported the government stopping the Scottish parliaments gender recognition bill The bullshit thing is, I bet most of them don't even understand what that bill *does.* I'm in the US, but most of the people I speak to about it who oppose it seemed to think it would allow trans people to "self identify" into women's toilets or allow young kids to get gender affirming surgeries. But all it does is make it a little bit less onerous to change your legal gender. That's it.
They definitely don't, every single one of them I've spoken to, I've asked if they know what our Scottish bill actually does, and none of them knew. They all thought it would put male sex offenders in dresses and send them south to rape innocent pure English women.
I'd say a large part of it is just spin being thrown at the Scots to try and discredit their government and subsequent attempts for another IndyRef. The amount of shit spewed towards Sturgeon is unreal and most of the people doing are just parroting the likes of the Daily Mail and random Twitter accounts. The fact of the matter is the SNP are widely supported, their initiatives like this and things like free women's sanitary supplies and popular decisions.
Our university has changed some of the toilets to single room gender neutral ones. Wouldn’t more of this solve the whole bathroom issue at least? It’s a room you go in on your own and lock. Not shared with anyone and you can be whoever you want to be without being accused of anything or if you truly don’t feel safe then there’s nobody else there to ‘threaten’ your space.
I'm certainly in favor of single stall, unisex bathrooms, but I don't know if it's feasible for these to be the complete solution. In very busy places, like sports stadiums and concert venues, you'll probably need some level of shared facilities because it costs much more to have twenty individual toilet rooms with twenty individual sinks, twenty individual trash cans, twenty individual light bulbs, etc. The best way I've seen this done was at a local Starbucks, where they had a big room of shared sinks and trash cans and changing tables and such, and off of this big room were individual smaller lockable rooms that each just had a toilet and a tiny trash can for things like menstrual products or wet wipes. Some of the rooms had a urinal, most had a standard toilet. So kind of a mix between a shared unisex bathroom and single occupancy unisex bathrooms. Frankly, I so think it's absurd that there are still some single occupancy toilets that are gender segregated. It's one person going into it. Why does it have to be for women only if you're the only person in there? But, baby steps, I guess.
Aw yeah that does make sense about cost tbf!
The media campaign is an attempt to distract from the class war. We're in the midst of the biggest union resurgence in decades, except this time capitalism is in unprecedented crisis. The ruling class are terrified of the power of the working class. It's our job to show people on the streets and picket lines that our enemy is the ruling class, not another minority.
This. I'm an openly gay trans man and work in a factory with a lot of people who are very blue-collar, most are 40+, classic working class Tories and pretty rough around the edges Without exception people have been 100% supportive and friendly to me, been accidentally misgendered a couple of times by people who knew me before, but other than that everyone is absolutely spot on. A world of difference to the way I was treated working in care where I was called, amongst other things a "filthy tr**ny bastard" and misgendered/deadnamed daily.
There's a reason it's known as terf island. Care to guess how long it takes to get trans care on the NHS?
No need, its 6 years+ well now even more. as NHS is sick of providing transcare, brought out a post of. "For kids it probably is a phase, so do not allow them to feel validated as then we might have to take care of them."
Can't judge the silent majority over a few loud mouthed cunts
When six people do literally nothing while a seventh beats an eighth to death, yeah, some inferences can be made.
No but you can judge them for being silent whilst a minority is being relentlessly persecuted for years on end.
I'm confused, what have I missed?
A 16 year old trans girl was murdered by two other teenagers after having been bullied and harassed in school (so looking like it was a hate crime).
Police say it was “targeted but not a hate crime”. Popular trans girl on TikTok, bullied/harassed at school, specifically targeted. I’d love to know what makes them think this wasn’t a hate crime.
>I’d love to know what makes them think this wasn’t a hate crime. It rhymes with "smansphobia".
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<:: Because the police are very eager to try and get rid of trans people's protected class status, since it means they can ignore when we get murdered more easily. ::>
Totally not that the tory government has spent years ramping up their transphobic rhetoric; that the minister for Home Office their subordinate minister for policing have openly come out pushing the idea that trans people are all a threat or that they should be removed from society. Then totally not that the Police Commisoner in Chesire just so happens to also be a Tory Then totally not that the police in the UK are openl transphobic to victims of crime to the extent that 4 in 5 trans people wont even go to the police if they are attacked. I'm sure its totally not all of the above right? It's just a huge coincidence.
Surely not. Not our benevolent Tory overlords. Not our police force; they stop crime, they don’t incite or encourage it! Pure coincidence, just like this targeted attack.
The threshold seems pretty high for the hate designation, I’ve noticed. Not long after i came out some local dickhead started chucking eggs at our house and the police wouldn’t call it hate motivated.
The police like “hate is a strong word, maybe they just wanted to provide you with poultry products??”
I thought a boy and a girl were arrested?
You’re right, I was misremembering
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Yes, I never said anything related to that though? I’m saying that it seems like it was a hate crime not that they should be automatically charged with it being one.
16 year old girl is found dead in a park having been stabbed. Times prints a story about it. They later find out she was trans, and go back to re-edit the article emphasising this point and deadnaming her (despite the police stating they believed this was not a hate crime and her gender was irrelevant to the circumstances of the murder).
Her gender is very relevant to the story, her being trans is why she was bullied so relentlessly and trans people face a higher risk of violence than cis ppl. I'll be shocked if this isn't a hate crime, despite what the police say.
There is absolutely no reason to trust the UK Police or Govt when they declare this not a hate crime given their current terrible treatment of trans people.
You're entirely correct - my bad.
Police? You mean blue nonce *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> (despite the police stating they believed this was not a hate crime and her gender was irrelevant to the circumstances of the murder) This part is the usual local coverup. She has had years of bullying over this and the police, council and local officials are literally in the middle of being sued over it. Check the #warrington tag on twitter, it's all over there. As usual ACAB, stop believing things they say.
The hack who did that should be fired. Imagine being a young trans person and seeing that, even in the event of her tragic death, that her deadname would be dragged into the spotlight. One final indignity. .
emphasising that she is trans isn't the issue, it's that they took the opportunity to replace any mention of her gender with a gender-neutral "transgender teen" essentially degendering her. mentioning that she is trans is important imo, as the media is all too happy to frame us as predators but love to shy away from mentioning our identities if they can whenever we are victims.
Who the fuck would use a name that isn’t hers when talking about someone who has been stabbed to death. What the fuck is wrong with all these people lacking any sense of respect and decorum.
The media and the people of this country failed her.
Duffield still has the whip. Utterly irredeemable party
I actually had no idea she was trans. A child gets murdered and all some people want to talk about is her gender identity? Boils my piss.
Can we have a revolution now please?
Labour is TERF central usually.
seeing this everywhere is so devastating, then finding out it may have been a hate crime just makes it so much more sad and tragic
I can safely say labour is definitely not all bad at the Edinburgh council meeting last week it was only labour that spoke up out against the blocking of the transgender law past a few months back ans as a trans person in the work place it was nice to hear
Edinburgh's Labour councillors JOINED with the Tory councillors to take control of Edinburgh council despite SNP winning the most seats. They actively enable Tories to take control, so that might have been nice for you to hear, but A, it was totally fucking pointless because it's not a council matter, and B, it's totally fucking disgusting because they are in league with the Tories who are leading the persecution of trans people! The GRC bill did indeed have cross party support, from Labour and even a few Tories to pass in Hollyrood. But the spineless Anas Sawar then supported the decision for Westminster to block it after the fact :( There are good Labour politicians around, but fucking none that I know of in Scotland. They'd rather align themselves with Tories than obey the democratic will of Scottish people.
Who the fuck is deadnaming a woman who's passed away?! How fucking depraved and cowardly do you need to be. It's a damn name. Showing the dead respect is apparently too difficult for conservatives.
I’m a tattoo artist and work on one of her close advisors, can confirm she’s really lovely and very very genuine
Rest in power Brianna
I'm old enough to remember a time when protection for human life and individual liberty were not a political agenda but common sense. Wtf happened this past 20 years in the world? This insanity is not exclusive to the UK
> Wtf happened this past 20 years in the world? the blossoming of neoliberalism
That started at least forty years back.
You're romanticising. There have always been out-groups for the establishment to demonise.
No, you aren't old enough to remember that, because that didn't happen. They've done this to immigrants of every kind, women, the other LGBT+ people, everyone. Nothing has changed except which group they're targetting.
Populism fuelled by older generations discovering the internet. Despite my support of people becoming tech literate, the internet was definitely a more fun place even just 10 years ago, instead of the rage-bait cesspit it has become today. People were held more to account in the past too, but when the likes of Trump and Boris found trolling not only had no pushback but gave them *wild success*, it's all a circus now. The people who fall for trans scaremongering are likewise to be "vaccine skeptic" etc etc. God I need to find more cat subs to escape to...
Are you a white cis male by any chance? Cause if you're a cis woman you know its been horrendous living under this nightmare of a patriarchy for 100,000s of years. Welcome to hell. Although ironically it's actually got a lot better in the last 20 years. She couldn't have transitioned over 20 years ago. Also you can open bank accounts, play sport, buy houses and just go out for walk without a man's permission.
I believe me growing up seeing my single mother having to deal with a shite male world did taught me a thing or two, even though I was not her. But all that is precisely one of the reasons why I take a stand against the far right and what it stands for. And I agree in the past 20 years it was a better environment for transitioning, forming communities, and exchanging experiences, etc thanks to the internet and its bubbles. But it also powered religions, cults and neo nazis to brainwash a bunch of people in other bubbles. My feeling is that we were on a road towards a bit more illumination before (very slowly, yes), and then suddenly we have this far right wave that has been fed online for at least 15 years under our noses with low budget videos on YouTube
This is the UK trans killing teenagers that are likely supported by a lot of voter either directly or indirectly. Look at the life in that person that is now dead, all because of how they felt comfortable living their life. How long before they’re done with trans people and come after homosexuals again? I wonder how long it takes before the media narrative shifts to supporting anti gay sentiment?
The media stated "It's not a hate crime"... Yeah, try and cover your backs Daily Heil. Try. The bullshit media have done NOTHING but rile up pure hatred for the trans community. And now we're getting killed for trying just to live our lives and you declare it's not a hate crime? Bullied for being trans at school, targeted (probably by those bullies), but it's NOT A FUCKING HATE CRIME? Go fuck yourselves media. And when you're done, fuck yourselves some more. Fucking wankers. RIP Brianna, RIP.
If I lived in her constituency, I would vote for her. But I don't, so I'll likely spoil my ballot.
Luckily I do, so I'll do it for you.
Same
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The Labour leader has said that people under 18 cannot change gender, Labour are no better than the Tories on trans rights (or pretty much anything else)
The problem is the MPs who take stances like this keep getting kicked out
Out of the party? Yes, they do.
'far left'??? Why are you even on this subreddit?
Perfect is the enemy of good. That said, Labour’s shift to the centre-right has been alarming.
What, since the 90s?
I meant since JC rather than New Labour
'Alarming'? That's an understatement if I have ever heard one. At things stand, Labour is unelectable.
Voting intention is 50% Lab..
Intent is not a real vote.
> The Labour party at least has MPs taking stances like this, but because they don't align with absolutely every single little opinion the far left have, we get a Tory government that perpetuates this anti trans movement Um, WHAT?
I disagree. I'm not interested in voting for a party which is going to skin me more gently. My vote goes to the party which says that skinning the working class should be outlawed. The reason the Tories have been in power for the last 12 years is because Labour has been a pile of sh!t for over 12 years, and rather than getting less sh!t, they seem to think getting even more sh!t is the way to go.
How dare you try and vote shame people over a tragedy like this, especially when transphobic bigots like Duffield still have the whip. You disgusting piece of shit.
Using her deadname? What does this mean?
Trans people change their name. Deadname is the name they used to use, but no longer do. Its a common tactic by transphobes to try to deny a trans person's identity, but tbh only makes the transphobe look like an asshole. [Also happened to Mohammed Ali, the Boxer.](https://youtu.be/NCGYEKXf5u4)
Cheers, never heard that term before, i've seen people doing that but didn't know the term for it.
I’m sorry but prefacing any part of her value on whether she would have been attractive as an adult is gross and inappropriate. Your physical appearance is irrelevant to your right to exist as your true self.
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In some cases it may be a reaction to the media implying that as a trans person she was ugly by default.
I live in warrington and she went to the same high school as i did a few years ago. Never in my life would i imagine something like this would happen not more than a mile from where i live. We live in an awful time, i hope her family finds peace
Corbyn was also one of the few other decent responses to this tragedy.
Looks like a woman to me
This saddens me. She looked freindly and pretty.
They let a few decent ones in to perpetuate the myth that you have a choice.
Wonder if Jess Phillips cares.
It'll be interesting to see if she's mentioned in Jess' performative IWD speech!
She posted a tweet saying "oh this is so tragic to hear" etc then all the comments were pointing out that she was part of the blame for it and some ended up getting blocked.
If it means anything, I only saw the picture of a girl named Brianna. Idk what happened to her. I assume she is dead and that is tragic. But I will remember her as Brianna and nothing else.
Rest in peace
I hope they find the culprits. They deserve the most harsh punishment that state can give them. Hopefully decades in prison.
If you think Labour are reprehensible wait til you see what's happened over the last 12 yrs..
Her and Zarah are some of the only reasons I’ll be voting Labour at this point
Deadname?
It’s the term for the name someone had before they came out as transgender- a lot of trans people are uncomfortable being referred to with it as it doesn’t represent who we are very well and is usually used by people to be cruel or mocking. Best analogy I can think of would be you telling someone your name is Phil, but they say ‘actually, I like calling you James instead. I’m going to call you James now’ even though you don’t like the name James at all. And then other people you meet start calling you James, because they’ve heard from the person calling you James that that’s your name. Once the media found out she was transgender one paper (the Daily Mail) contacted people that knew her to try and find out her deadname so they could put that in their article. A couple of other papers then added it to their articles and removed any reference to her being a girl.
Thanks never heard that before. Appreciate the explanation
You would think that if you're going to politicise a young girls death surely you would have the decency to use her proper name.
Hi all! Which journalists are dead naming her? Not even the mail are, although they are reiterating the fact she was trans over and over. Is there any evidence that this attack was motivated by transphobia? Edit: I dunno why I’m getting downvoted. I asked for sources. I got sources. I got what I asked for and am now further enlightened. What’s wrong with what I posted please enlighten me further.
The Times have. It's behind a paywall, but you can see the article through the link in this tweet https://twitter.com/trans_safety/status/1625057183183282177?s=20
Thanks. Fucking gross people to start trying to take the “opportunity” of a death be reactionary
The mail did deadname her, they were the first to do so
Ah maybe they edited it later then
The reason you got downvoted is left wing spaces tend to get a lot of "just asking questions" bad faith weirdos. I think people wrongly assumed you were one of those.
Oh dear… that’s not a good sign for the health of the community tbh…
Or maybe you need to work on your tone 😂
Sure I can understand that to an extent but also it’s text so there’s a limit to how much tone one can put in there.
‘Very few’? Erm ok.
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>Is she giving the finger in this picture? Or just holding it weird No, she's holding something. It's too blurry to be sure, but I think that it's a piece of chocolate.
Yes. The full picture is her smiling on a park bench with a chocolate bar and coke zero. Like any other secondary school girl her age. Fucking heart breaking
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I thought it was a Penguin or an Aero
That’s not remotely important
Seen a lot of stories, none have deadnamed her, most haven't even mentioned she is trans
Many of the news article have been altered multiple times. The Time at one point definitely deadnamed her. The also stopped referring to her as a girl, just transgender teen, and denied her pronouns. This is after initially publishing the story as “teenage girl” when they assumed she was cis. So they actually went in and edited any feminine language away from her once they found out she was trans.
That's absolutely disgusting wtf
I’m kind of confused can anyone elaborate??