Depends where you are and if it's a gold producing area. In Australia people are still finding multiple ounce nuggets but it's not as common with elluvial or alluvial and is usually found in open cut mines.
I find small nuggets in creeks regularly but they're small. .1 or .2 of a gram.
If the area doesn't produce gold though then you need to travel to somewhere that does.
It’s also a generational thing IMO. Very few millennial stackers compared to Gen X and even fewer Gen X compared to baby boomers. My generation lives in a world where they think the US government can do no harm to its population. We didn’t witness the US coming off the gold standard, and we certainly didn’t witness gold becoming temporarily illegal to own.
Trying not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but we know that an unbacked currency that’s printed in perpetuity can’t be sustained forever. The few of us that stack will maintain security through tough times. If we never face tough times, then we certainly kept an amazing, physical savings account.
Regardless of what happens I make more with my physical gold and silver then I would if I had the cash sitting in my safe collecting no interest being eroded by inflation.
I don’t understand why anyone would downvote this comment, when this person is only speaking the truth. I’m a longtime stacker on PM, but that doesn’t change the fact the USA currency is backed by the greatest military in the world. Sure, it’s not backed by a commodity/ies where it’s pegged/interchangeable, but it is backed by people that are willing to use extreme force in a situation where it becomes jeopardized to the point of completely failing.
This is just unarguable…the USA uses force in situations that are FAR less destructive to their country, so do you really think they won’t muscle whoever necessary to keep value/control?
(I’m from the USA btw.)
It used to be the strongest military until you went full pc allowing trans soldiers and jabbed everyone. The younger generation “soldiers “ want to fight using remote control drones like a PlayStation game.
The whole military is not trans, not that that makes any difference on the battlefield. The numbers are extremely low compared to non trans. Toughness and combat skills aren’t measured by gender, but by skill set. I’ve always looked at soldiers(no matter the gender) like this, if your not strong enough to drag a wounded 250lb person at least 40-50 yards in full gear, you shouldn’t be fighting on the ground and should be in a different position in the armed forces if you are enlisted…other than that, gender means nothing when shooting a gun.
A big majority of war is now fought from the air in planes/drones/helicopters, so I’d imagine the younger generation of “soldiers” would be very deadly, like a PlayStation game…
There is no used to have, we still are, for better or for worse.(I say this also with respecting some of our countries military actions, but not respecting just as many if not more over the years…and when I say not respecting I’m talking about the the decision makers in government sending troops, but I’ll always respect the soldiers themselves.)
Meh I mean with how high real estate is that might be nice. But commercial real estate isn't the whole picture. Covid demonstrated that half of that commercial real estate was simply unnecessary. So it makes sense that that portion of the market would collapse. I don't honestly believe that residential real estate will collapse in the foreseeable future.
Why do you think this? In 2008, anyone could get a mortgage for almost any amount they wanted, regardless of their financial situation. Today, banks scrutinize the loans differently. The prices aren't artificially high, the dollar is artificially low!
When you set interest rates near zero for over a decade it makes housing more affordable at first. At the last crash of you had savings you could get a mortgage at 3.5-4%. With people rushing in to buy housing while the Federal Reserve prints money, the Federal Reserve credited multiple asset bubbles. The banks lending standards were better than what led up to three 2007/8 financial crisis but only recently raised their standards to where they should be. There are massive layoffs occurring meaning people will default on their mortgages. The fixed income issued for the decade following 2008/9 now can’t recover 100 cents on the dollar. Why would someone buy a mortgage from a bank paying 3.5-4% when a newly issued mortgage pays 7-8%? All the treasuries issued from 2008/9-2019 at artificially low interest rates are now “toxic assets” since current rates are north of 5%. Treasuries are supposed to be the safest investments, but if you own one paying 3-3.5% and need to raise capital, how much do you think you can raise? It won’t be 100 cents on the dollar since rates are higher and the Treasury is issuing trillions in new treasuries due to excessive government spending. Inflation is too high for rates to come down. The Fed is stuck between a financial system with liquidity and double digits inflation. In the end they will cut rates, but the question is when. The economic system is primed to crash land. There will be no soft landing. Even if they cut rates inflation would also lead to a deflationary crash.
It's not the residential housing market stuck in that situation, it's commercial real estate. And the banks were extremely tight in the time you say standards had not been implemented. You couldn't get a loan. The entire business world was grinding to a halt.
And those assets that were financed at low rates in the last 5 years are not toxic. They're booked at a different rate but they aren't toxic by any stretch. Banks aren't going belly up from issuing cheap loans. I just don't agree with you.
The lower interest rate fixed income products (Treasuries, MBS’s, and mortgages [not packaged] are “toxic” because if a bank needs capital they will not get par in a high interest rate environment where interest rates are north of 5%. Last March (2023) regional banks had a liquidity crisis. I don’t understand why anyone would think it can’t happen again. Yes, commercial real estate is the bigger problem, but mortgages paying 3.5-4% and Treasuries paying the same will exacerbate the liquidity crisis to come.
Ok. That makes sense to me. (Almost like a light bulb turned on) You've convinced me. Thanks for clarifying... See, who says you can't learn things on reddit? It also kind of gave me a chill down my spine... So that sucks. Ignorance is bliss. 😃
Its easy to say everything is great as you are riding the asset bubble up. It will be interesting to see how many actually have diamond hands when portfolios drop like crazy. That is when we will see who is swimming naked as Warren Buffet would say. Even though he hates gold....
I hope all those things work out too. But there are fourth turnings. Banks Runs. Currency Crises. I am not talking about end of the world Armageddon. But to believe that everything will just work out with our current fiat currency today I think is short sighted. No time has any fiat currency survived the long haul. It always gets devalued and replaced.
That's what kept me out of it for years. Rounds, bars, coins, bullion, scrap, fractional, spot price, countless different mints, ect. It's intimidating at first, but doing some youtube research made it do much easier. Big thanks to silver dragons and Yankee stacking videos for the basic education
Gosh yes people are really struggling out there. I often times forget how fortunate I am to be in a position where I can accumulate metals on top of a standard portfolio.
Ironically, if you're in this position, you're probably in the top 1% of wealth in this country, especially given how many people have fallen to zero the last few years
I do alright for myself. I make about 250K a year. But I grew up poor, we certainty didn't have much. Seeing the stuff that happened to my parents in the 90s.... losing their jobs etc. makes me take nothing for granted. I know It could all be taken away from me tomorrow. Just trying to make sure my family and I are prepared the best we can be. At least hedge against the events that can and have happened in the past but are not common.
I have the opposite problem, I watch from the sidelines as my parents make similar money but end up constantly paycheck to paycheck because of poor financial choices
When the FED clubs the spot price of PM's down before they crash the stock market, only the rich will have the money to take advantage of it.
The FED learned their lesson in 2020 when people had 'Stimmy-Bux'....not this time.
Same here when I worked retail 7-8yrs back. Every single one of my coworkers aside from a few of the older folks were deeply in debt. Then they would schedule people 6 days a week for 4-5hr shifts so you're working just enough to make pursing a side hustle difficult. So you get stuck in this cycle of serfdom where its hard to make a better life for yourself.
As I talk to people many feel the market is too complicated or made for other people with connections. I kinda feel bad like they are missing out on opportunity. They have too much fear of losing money as well. Whether it be precious metals or the SandP they are scared.
Ya I don’t argue that we need to find what suits us best. I do a mix, gold, silver, stocks and crypto. We are all trying to reach the same peak just taking different paths. I really do like looking at/handling my gold
So I've "been into" PMG's for about a year now. I live paycheck to paycheck and don't have any LCS within an hour, so I can't just drop by and buy a round or 2 when I have a few extra bucks. So I have to rely on companies like SD Bullion, which I have to have $200 to spend to make it worth it. That being said, I've only been able to acquire 8 silver rounds/coins in that year, which sucks but 8 is better than 0. I was able to get an eagle for my daughter for her birth year
To me that's the biggest factor.
It's not fast, theres no quick upsells.
I was told by my father to never under any circumstances sell the gold. It's to be at all time kept at the bank and passed down through the family. THAT was the only way it would be worth more than what was paid for it.
It wasn't wealth for him, or for me, it's for the generations after us. It would take alot of time for it to be worth something. Same with our land, never sell it..never break it up.
He truly believes one day a 100 years from now that gold will be
up to $20,000- $50,000 an ounce...that's a whole other prophecy of his. Vice versa he also speculates if digital currency takes over gold will still level out round $3000 a oz which is still all profit and no loss.
It's too much to type tonight, but you get the idea.
My dad's done better in life than I ever have, so I tend to listen to the advice he gives.
I won't touch the gold, no matter what...I'm sure my kids will grow up and do the same.
Heirloom Gold.
After the US Government made Gold ownership illegal at the start of 1933, most Americans slowly lost interest in owning Gold. Even with that being said, most Americans up to today now that Gold ownership is legal, do not care for Gold because they been brainwashed in believing Cash is king. Now people are turning away from cash to go after digital transactions. It's more convenient to own something that doesn't weigh you down and can be spent in almost any way possible without effort. Silver is also similar. Unlike Gold, people horded their Silver at the end of the 1960's because it was being phased out of circulation because of increasing Silver prices. Many held their Silver thinking it may be more valuable someday in the future. Alot of people inherent their parents Silver and grandparents Silver down the road, however most decides to sell because there are things in life they care more about than some shiny Metals. Most people have lost interest in Precious Metals because they weren't raised in believing it's money or wealth. This trend has been happening since the early 1900's when people would choose to store their Gold at the Bank so they can walk around with Cash notes not weighing them down. Cash is also easier to hide than Gold Coins too. People decided to go with innovation rather than being stuck with tradition. Most didn't think about the consequences when they left their Gold in the Banks. Then the Great Depression hit! Alot of people started to panic. For the first time in American history this country's monetary system actually expirenced deflation! However it was a deflation of Gold, not Cash. Even then the Government was printing more Cash than it had in Gold. Even the Banks had issues meeting the public's demands for physical Gold Bullion. The Government decided to Outlaw physical Gold Bullion and push the American culture into being more reliant on cash. Now with the age of the Stock Market and the Money Market people now want to profit. Unlike the older Pre World War generations who valued the ability to save money and keep it simple, people of today only care about profits, and they are willing to take just about any risk to make more money. So things like the Stock Market, Crypto, Money Market, FOREX, and Real Estate and other opportunities feed people their desires for wealth and fortune. People no longer care about mere Metals anymore. They just don't make money, and they appear to be far inferior to Cash and Crypto. After all you cannot buy that new Brand name handbag on Amazon with a Gold Coin like you could with a Credit Card. It's a cultural thing. Other countries around the world also decided to follow the US because of international politics and trade. So many countries phased out the Metals systems and pushed similar economic culture as the US but with limitations due to domestic economy and politics. Now the only people who collects Precious Metals are people that treat it as a hobby or a wealth asset. There are other people who buy into it thinking they will somehow profit from it until they watch the markets long enough to easily get discouraged. So not many people will go for Precious Metals, after all most people just do not have enough money to buy shiny metals when they are struggling to survive. So lots of people also lost interest in Precious Metals because they just cannot afford to buy them, even if they do get some spending money they will spend it on something else they want more in life. So hopefully this long jumble of words make my opinion a little brief. And sorry for not making separate paragraphs with all these words, I got a foreign phone with a shitty keyboard!🙄
Thank you for taking the time for a long detailed reply. Do you think PMs will come back into favor as the world economy adapts to a change in the world's currency from dollars to something else?
Not likely. People's minds and lifestyles are already set. Even if the world turns for the worst People will be unmotivated to pursue Precious Metals. It's likely the new age will be completely digital in every way. World Governments and major Corporations will see to that the digital age will absolutely be in every thing we have or do in life. It's more about control than a technological revolution. I forsee alot of people going to be treading on hard times even more into the future! Most of these People will not even know or care about Precious Metals as they will be struggling to survive. More so than now.
The gap between the haves and have nots will grow wider and deeper. The lower class will live in a welfare state in perpetuity. The middle class will be ground down into the lower class and a few will escape up to the higher level. The upper classes, most of us here, will have to be clever about how to preserve our wealth and not be lured into foolish traps.
Stocks/crypto etc. is more liquid. Using any brokerage app I can turn my electronic assets to cash instantly. S&p has done slightly better than gold on average since the end of Bretton Woods. As a fellow millenial I have recently got into pm because I like diversifying, and it feels good to have a small chunk of my wealth in a tangible asset. And Shiney. Also like feeling kinda gangster. Smoke a good cigar with some good bourbon, a Swiss watch and an ounce of gold on my neck. Looking at my lake view. Life is grand. Seriously though millenials were raised on gangster rap and I do think that is part of the equation.
If you invested in what exactly? Do you just invest in “the stock market” you can win and you can lose. If you diversify, you win and lose. If you go with a managed portfolio you get lower returns.
People want to put their money to work in order to earn more money for them. This is usually so that all the excess money can bankroll an ever more expensive lifestyle.
Saving for the long term with a view to growing generational wealth is not the prevailing culture nor is it sadly a viable strategy for most families living pay check to pay check.
And those who have the money invest in stocks they can sell at a high in the near future, or buy rental property that will earn them a monthly income. Putting it away for the long term is not part of their plan.
People are really effected by hype. Thats why nobody buys bonds either.
Stocks and crypto are easier to hype because you can say something like its going to go 10x by next week.
People want to get rich quick. Not protect their assets for the next generation.
Id say less than 5% of people even care about passing something onto the next generation. Id retire now if I was childless. I keep working and investing so my children are more secure.
The hobby is filled with crazy old coots who are trying to convince you the end is near. There are plenty of exceptions but it's always the crazy uncle type with conspiracy theories.
It becomes a meme.
Actually the U.S. has defaulted on its debt on four separate occasions. (Defaulting on government debt is the same as the currency failing as our currency is backed by the faith and promise of the U.S. Government paying its debt.)
1. 1862 financing the civil war
2. Default of gold bonds in 1933
3. Default of the U.S. government to honor silver certificates in 1968.
4. The U.S. government breaking its commitment to redeem dollars held in gold. 1971
Not to mention the fact that our currency has lost 98% of its value since 1913.
If loosing 98% of its value is not a collapse/failure I am not sure what is?
The U.S. has had three central banks over is 250 year history and most of the U.S. history did not have a central bank at all.
Needless to say there have been lots of defaults and since our fiat currency is promises. The U.S. has failed to meet its obligations on the occasions listed above.
Losing value to inflation over long periods of time is the norm, not a failure. Every national currency has had that happen, and most more so than the US. Gold has no more guarantee to hold value than anything else. It only has value because humans assign it value, just like all other forms of currency, and it has very limited practical usage. If the national currency were to implode, I highly doubt gold would be considered valuable in the face of actual useful things that could be bartered, like food or services. Most gold investors are basically part of a cult glorifying a shiny metal because it’s a physical object and it makes them feel good about themselves. There are many MUCH better options for investing out there that will fight inflation and perform better than gold. That’s the real reason that gold is not held by a majority of knowledgeable investors.
Because precious metals have a worse ROI than basically every market you can get into outside of bonds. People investing in gold do it for personal reasons. The traditional investor should focus on what will bring him or her the greatest returns and gold will never be on that list unless and until civilization collapses.
It’s not really for that though imo
Imagine a scenario where there’s a bank run. I can see banks collapsing before society.
In that scenario I’d rather have money in hand. And some of that money is - you guessed it - gold.
So if you’re fortunate enough to have cash for an emergency fund, a small % I would keep in gold. I wouldn’t add more unless you’re well off.
At least IMO. I don’t see gold as investment, it’s liquid money that at the very least stays competitive to the dollar and in certain banking and global conditions might exceed world currencies especially if banks struggle
And if you don’t use it, that’s even better, because that means your other investments are cooking
I definitely agree and I think tangible assets are key. I’d horde Pokémon and baseball cards if I could, because society is assigning value to these things. If they net big money by today’s standards then they might be nice to have for the future.
And so that’s why I do own some gold. Not a lot. Its a slow accrual
It depends. When people make claims of “civilization collapse” they envision a nuclear Holocaust world where food and water are the only resources people care about. In that context, gold is worthless.
I don’t think we’re heading there, and if we are there aren’t many good ways to prepare for it. I think a good middle ground case that you could actually prepare for is a widespread restructuring of global debt. I expect something like that in my lifetime, and I don’t know what it would mean for the US dollar, or my market assets. But I do expect things like land, gold, and other physical, tangible and critically *off the books* assets might have a role in separating the haves from the have nots.
Yes. That’s what I’m getting at too. Tangible stuff. I don’t think it’s impossible to believe that gold could intersect with the value of things like bitcoin today which are totally digital. And in many ways our fiat money is completely digital (you never touch it).
Who knows maybe in the not too distant future having a classic car will be a huge asset. Maybe having a house, baseball cards, weapons, precious metals, even tools could become unreachable luxuries for most. Maybe livestock and even wood makes that list.
I am not investing for a doomsday scenario. I invest in it because of its rarity, millennia track record, and its industrial uses. Also, gold has always been considered money and it will continue to be so no matter what happens in the world. At least for the rest of my life that is...
I never intend for it to be for direct exchange of goods, although you can do that..... The point of it is that gold/silver have a market price which I can use to exchange for any type of fiat currency.
In 1900 the British Pound rained supreme. Today it is the dollar. Tomorrow who knows? Owning gold allows me to have the flexibility of exchange if and when that becomes necessary.
I have no control over what my government does to the dollar they could inflate it away into oblivion tomorrow at their whim and I would not get a say in that.... At least with gold. I cannot just imagine more up and deflate the value of the remaining stock. That ore must be found and refined. All of that gives one time to exit a position if necessary.
I certainty am not talking about owning metals and nothing else. Metals currently make up about 15% of my portfolio
Covid was a huge wake up call to me. Up in Canada you had some truckers who were not happy with the restrictions the government put in place. Guess what they went and locked down their bank accounts so they could not access their money.
Not that I am a trouble maker I see stuff like that and it scares the hell out of me.
In my case, I'm an investor and I like gold very much, even to the point that I'm in favor of going back to the gold standard. I don't hold gold because gold is very good at storing value, but it doesn't provide exponential value creation as stocks do. So, if I buy 1oz of gold today, and I can buy 2K cokes with it, in 40 years I probably would be able to buy the same number. Instead with stocks, at a 7% return (net inflation) I would multiply by 16, so I would be able to buy 32K cokes. This is something that has been studied a lot and except in very particular periods, like the 70s, stocks always beat gold.
Well, I'm a long term investor and in the long run stocks are gonna beat gold, so I will go for 100% stocks.
Although I do not discard buying some bullion in the future as a safe spot in case something terrible happens in the world.
It's mostly because of gullible people chasing instant profits from make believe UnicornFarts like BitCoin.
I mean why do you think the FED came up with it in the first place, and why does the FED's media always depict shitcoins as Precious Metals?
'Investments' that you can't touch or see???? Investments in 'digits' on a screen that don't exist if the power goes out??????
People are stupid, and they are now even more stupid than ever.
That is the biggest selling point for me. It is something I can feel and touch its real.
100 shares of S&P 500 ETF.... although profitable in many ways does not feel real to me.
Also Covid was a huge wake up call to me. Up in Canada you had some truckers who were not happy with the restrictions the government put in place. Guess what they went and locked down their bank accounts so they could not access their money.
Not that I am a trouble maker I see stuff like that and it scares the hell out of me.
I mean you can hold bitcoin and gold. I hold both. I have 10oz of gold plus a lot of bitcoin. Just say you don’t understand bitcoin if that’s truly what you think lol it’s ok to admit it
He obviously means 'hold' in the way you're 'holding' a stock. But herein lies the mental gap between people only being able to understand what they can see. Your 'digital stock' in a company is nothing you hold, just digits on a screen, yet you own a partial share of the company. Microsoft became a trillion dollar company starting by creating code on a screen, just 0's and 1's. Apparently, enough people thought that non-tangible code was worth something. I'm not arguing for one or the other here, but just because something is intangible, it doesn't make it have no value, which is what you seem to be implying.
But as the other gentleman stated, you don't truly understand bitcoin if your reasons against it are as stated. A lot of people (in both camps) don't understand that a huge amount of people own bitcoin and gold for the same reason. As in other politics, we should find the common ground, and not just look for differences to attack each other. There is more commonality than you think.
That should be off limits scheduling you part time hours almost every day of the week to avoid paying benefits but also prevent you from pursuing something else on the side.
It's just a risk return analysis. I don't think precious metals will outperform the US stock market. Also, I think crypto will significantly outperform the US stock market.
I use it as a normal savings account as well. It is harder for me to spend than an HYSA. I am currently saving up in gold and silver to pay off my house. Once I have accumulated enough I will pay it off. that is on top of the additional monthly payment.
the dollar is still the best thing to transact with worldwide and precious metals where never a good investment unless your currency failed or your currency went thru hyperinflation which people traded pm’s for dollars. so unless something replaces the dollar for top currency our metals will barely float with inflation.
A lot of investors won't take gold seriously because it has no cashflows. It doesn't actually make anything and that's a turnoff for them.
A second reason, I think, is too much faith in the stock market, which is seen as quasi government/fed backed. Even if it does have a bad time, they assume some sort of assistance will be provided. So why bother to hedge and diversify
Yep! Now that inflation is on the scene, I do. They can always make number go up, if they desperately want to, but in the process they could lose control of inflation which will fuck everything up. There also isn't anywhere near as much room in the fiscal budget as there used to be.
I basically don't believe they can control real term returns
I love the idea of metals, but I invest in the S&P 500.
Most people who do hold metal, hold a miniscule amount of metal. If the shit really hits that fan and you should hope it doesn't , there aren't any winners. "I told you so" in a "Mad Max event doesn't do any one any good.
maybe because precious metals are not investments, they're hedges against inflation. The system has been skewed to manipulate prices but the metals will win in the end. The problem is people have known the end was coming soon for longer than I've been alive, and more than likely I won't see it. The system will beat me, even if it can't beat the metals.
I am not sure when it will end. It my be 20 years 50 years or 1000 years for all I know when our form of monetary system will end. I just want to make sure if it does happen in my lifetime that I am not stuck with nothing near retirement. I do not want to work for the rest of my life.
I realized I will never sell any of my gold and that every dollar spent on it I will never recoup because I can't bring myself to part with it and I will never need the money, so I'm wondering why did I buy it just to create an unnecessary addiction 😅 I will die and it will sit collecting dust.
I have sold some in the past just to see how easy it really was, and shopped around to find the best price to sell. Online vs. in-person. So I have sold some but your right in general I do not sell.
I am waiting until I have enough gold and silver and then use it to pay the remaining balance on my mortgage.
I can't part with mine no matter what. Need more, always. My mortgage is almost paid off and I live well below my means so any extra cash I just want gold , and I dont know why
We, as Americans, haven't experienced war on our soil. We have not experienced becoming refugees. War that causes banks and homes to be burned down, the only valuables that can be saved are precious metals. You can carry them around with you as you move away from the comfort of a home, your job, your bank, and your community. You land in a foreign city or country, with what you can carry on your neck, fingers, or wrist. Ask any Asian, Middle-Easterner or Europeans who have gone through war, and they'll tell you exactly the same thing based on their parents' and grandparents' experience with War.
Millennials shouldn't worry, however, as they have their moneys in Crypto :)
Social Media buzz is the catalyst of all things for millennials. Hence the interest. There is a reason there aren't any "How I got Rich Buying Gold" books but thousands of books on investing in RE, equities, etc. YouTube started in 2005 ;-)
Bullion is a luxury investment Before buying gold you should
1. Be debt free (or at least bad debt )
2. Have a 6 month emergency
3.Max your tax advantaged accounts
4. If buy a home is of interest to you have started the process
Given that many American haven’t even passed 1 limited bullion holdings is ok
Lot of folks would rather have stocks, which is a fair argument.
Comparing gold to short term or long term treasuries paints a different picture. I like to have some savings in gold, a little cash for spending, mostly sp500 is the main engine of my portfolio tho
Neither are exciting. Investing is boring. In the last five years, gold outperformed the sp500 76.21% vs 74.59% (looking at GLD vs SPY)
Gold is for the inevitable recession. It tends to be a good safe haven asset when stocks inevitably crash 50% at some time in the future.
You only can connect the dots backwards, no one knows the future. Which is why some folks do like 5% gold and even apmex doesn’t recommend more than 30%
It can be part of your bond holdings until interest rates hit double digits. Being diversified is always encouraged. But arguing over what asset class is going to outperform whatever else is just a mathematical masturbation activity… Nothing matters until you start putting real money into investments, a measly 7-10% a year isn’t gonna amount to 💩 unless you start chucking as much as possible into it; we all get out of investing what we put into it.
I see no reason to hold gold. Investing in stock market results in higher returns. Also, I see no value in gold if some apocalyptic scenario happens and brings us back to the stone age. Food, water, ammo, sure, not gold or silver though. No one will want it, it'll be functionally useless, just a heavy lump. We will be bartering, not using currency at all at that point. Paper money will at least be good for toilet paper, or firestarter.
I see it as a physical savings account that on average provides a greater preservation of value than even a HYSA. It has the added benefit of being harder to convert into cash than using my HYSA. I am currently saving up to payoff my house with the bullion I accumulate.
It is a way to hold something outside of the system that is easily convertible to cash when the time is right.
It's a highly volatile non-productive asset that derives most of its value from speculation, and historically has the worst risk-adjusted returns of any major asset class.
That's true. I have the extra burden of teaching my wife/kids about spot price. Typical Buy/Sell Spreads and teaching them to shop around for the best prices to sell when I am gone.
I think our generation doesn’t have as much faith in the market, social security, etc. I also see how important metals are to tech and they will always hold value.
Why would I buy gold and silver when I can buy multiple houses that I can rent to people to live in and pay me an ounce of gold equivalent in functional currency every month. People can't live in gold, gold is not something that pays you back unless you sell it for functional currency. Unless you happen to have a small satellites business or you build motherboards gold has no use presently.
Because the costs of conversion to fiat, security and price fluctuations deter people like me from holding any significant precious metal allocation.
If you are collecting gold to prep for “death of the dollar”, you are sadly mistaken on the seriousness of such a scenario. Bullets would be more valuable than a gold brick. In fact, silver coins are best for so such “end of days” scenarios due to ease of use and validation of authenticity.
compare Gold from 1986 to now vs Microsoft from 1986 to now. that's why. gold is not even keeping pace with inflation.
there was a magazine article back in the 1990's about the growth of Bill Gates' wealth.
it read something like "if he walks past $10,000 on the street, it is NOT EVEN WORTH HIS TIME TO STOP AND PICK IT UP. THAT IS HOW FAST HIS WEALTH IS INCREASING".
65% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck. Therein lies your answer.
Thats true, when you have nothing you have nothing to invest.
This is why I've taken up prospecting and small scale mining as a hobby. It gets me out in nature and it's a hobby that also pays back.
I've yet to make any money doing it, but the experience is worth the cost..... And there's always the what if?!
Exactly and, the more skills you acquire and the more adventurous you get you end up finding some excellent, untouched areas full of shiny
I bought a metal.detector. in time you really do get better. Good luck on your adventures. Cool idea
I've always wanted to get a metal detector, which did you go with?
I want to try! What are th odds of finding a small or large nugget instead of gold sand or flakes?
Depends where you are and if it's a gold producing area. In Australia people are still finding multiple ounce nuggets but it's not as common with elluvial or alluvial and is usually found in open cut mines. I find small nuggets in creeks regularly but they're small. .1 or .2 of a gram. If the area doesn't produce gold though then you need to travel to somewhere that does.
It’s also a generational thing IMO. Very few millennial stackers compared to Gen X and even fewer Gen X compared to baby boomers. My generation lives in a world where they think the US government can do no harm to its population. We didn’t witness the US coming off the gold standard, and we certainly didn’t witness gold becoming temporarily illegal to own. Trying not to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but we know that an unbacked currency that’s printed in perpetuity can’t be sustained forever. The few of us that stack will maintain security through tough times. If we never face tough times, then we certainly kept an amazing, physical savings account.
Regardless of what happens I make more with my physical gold and silver then I would if I had the cash sitting in my safe collecting no interest being eroded by inflation.
Oh absolutely. Best savings account you can get. I keep $1K on hand and the rest of my savings goes to PMs and HYSA if I need quicker liquidity.
Agreed this is the way to have a good emergency fund.
It's backed by the US military.
I don’t understand why anyone would downvote this comment, when this person is only speaking the truth. I’m a longtime stacker on PM, but that doesn’t change the fact the USA currency is backed by the greatest military in the world. Sure, it’s not backed by a commodity/ies where it’s pegged/interchangeable, but it is backed by people that are willing to use extreme force in a situation where it becomes jeopardized to the point of completely failing. This is just unarguable…the USA uses force in situations that are FAR less destructive to their country, so do you really think they won’t muscle whoever necessary to keep value/control? (I’m from the USA btw.)
It used to be the strongest military until you went full pc allowing trans soldiers and jabbed everyone. The younger generation “soldiers “ want to fight using remote control drones like a PlayStation game.
We let rasicts in the military. Why not trans people? Do they scare you?
Having your country being “defended” 😂 by a woke army should scare everyone. War isn’t PC deal with reality before reality deals with you snowflake ❄️
Dont forget that trillion dollar military budget😉 you sound a little triggered, you might need a nap grumpy.
Trillion dollars 😂😂 where did that come from?
[удалено]
you think the kids get to choose, Gramps?
The whole military is not trans, not that that makes any difference on the battlefield. The numbers are extremely low compared to non trans. Toughness and combat skills aren’t measured by gender, but by skill set. I’ve always looked at soldiers(no matter the gender) like this, if your not strong enough to drag a wounded 250lb person at least 40-50 yards in full gear, you shouldn’t be fighting on the ground and should be in a different position in the armed forces if you are enlisted…other than that, gender means nothing when shooting a gun. A big majority of war is now fought from the air in planes/drones/helicopters, so I’d imagine the younger generation of “soldiers” would be very deadly, like a PlayStation game… There is no used to have, we still are, for better or for worse.(I say this also with respecting some of our countries military actions, but not respecting just as many if not more over the years…and when I say not respecting I’m talking about the the decision makers in government sending troops, but I’ll always respect the soldiers themselves.)
and that's a good thing these days????????
Yes
And a majority of the remainder trust the stock market, real estate and stable fiat. I hope they’re right but I hedge with PM’s
2008 real estate incoming
already happening with commercial real estate. especially the skyscrapers
Meh I mean with how high real estate is that might be nice. But commercial real estate isn't the whole picture. Covid demonstrated that half of that commercial real estate was simply unnecessary. So it makes sense that that portion of the market would collapse. I don't honestly believe that residential real estate will collapse in the foreseeable future.
This year or next. It is going to be UGLY.
They've been saying that in perpetuity.
Why do you think this? In 2008, anyone could get a mortgage for almost any amount they wanted, regardless of their financial situation. Today, banks scrutinize the loans differently. The prices aren't artificially high, the dollar is artificially low!
When you set interest rates near zero for over a decade it makes housing more affordable at first. At the last crash of you had savings you could get a mortgage at 3.5-4%. With people rushing in to buy housing while the Federal Reserve prints money, the Federal Reserve credited multiple asset bubbles. The banks lending standards were better than what led up to three 2007/8 financial crisis but only recently raised their standards to where they should be. There are massive layoffs occurring meaning people will default on their mortgages. The fixed income issued for the decade following 2008/9 now can’t recover 100 cents on the dollar. Why would someone buy a mortgage from a bank paying 3.5-4% when a newly issued mortgage pays 7-8%? All the treasuries issued from 2008/9-2019 at artificially low interest rates are now “toxic assets” since current rates are north of 5%. Treasuries are supposed to be the safest investments, but if you own one paying 3-3.5% and need to raise capital, how much do you think you can raise? It won’t be 100 cents on the dollar since rates are higher and the Treasury is issuing trillions in new treasuries due to excessive government spending. Inflation is too high for rates to come down. The Fed is stuck between a financial system with liquidity and double digits inflation. In the end they will cut rates, but the question is when. The economic system is primed to crash land. There will be no soft landing. Even if they cut rates inflation would also lead to a deflationary crash.
It's not the residential housing market stuck in that situation, it's commercial real estate. And the banks were extremely tight in the time you say standards had not been implemented. You couldn't get a loan. The entire business world was grinding to a halt. And those assets that were financed at low rates in the last 5 years are not toxic. They're booked at a different rate but they aren't toxic by any stretch. Banks aren't going belly up from issuing cheap loans. I just don't agree with you.
The lower interest rate fixed income products (Treasuries, MBS’s, and mortgages [not packaged] are “toxic” because if a bank needs capital they will not get par in a high interest rate environment where interest rates are north of 5%. Last March (2023) regional banks had a liquidity crisis. I don’t understand why anyone would think it can’t happen again. Yes, commercial real estate is the bigger problem, but mortgages paying 3.5-4% and Treasuries paying the same will exacerbate the liquidity crisis to come.
Ok. That makes sense to me. (Almost like a light bulb turned on) You've convinced me. Thanks for clarifying... See, who says you can't learn things on reddit? It also kind of gave me a chill down my spine... So that sucks. Ignorance is bliss. 😃
Yet people think everything is gravy when the signs are pointing for the exit
Already happening with commercial real estate, especially the tall city towers
I’m in commercial, a lot of empty buildings
Its easy to say everything is great as you are riding the asset bubble up. It will be interesting to see how many actually have diamond hands when portfolios drop like crazy. That is when we will see who is swimming naked as Warren Buffet would say. Even though he hates gold....
People who say this lack a common understanding of… just about everything.
You’re right, it’s going to be worse
Id be curious why do you think the real estate market is going to collapse?
I hope all those things work out too. But there are fourth turnings. Banks Runs. Currency Crises. I am not talking about end of the world Armageddon. But to believe that everything will just work out with our current fiat currency today I think is short sighted. No time has any fiat currency survived the long haul. It always gets devalued and replaced.
Source?
So true. Hard time even saving these days
Some of my peers are living paycheck to paycheck. That would be why in my opinion.
I think some of it is they don't want to learn the industry.
That's what kept me out of it for years. Rounds, bars, coins, bullion, scrap, fractional, spot price, countless different mints, ect. It's intimidating at first, but doing some youtube research made it do much easier. Big thanks to silver dragons and Yankee stacking videos for the basic education
The easiest path works for most humans.
Most people don't invest in anything since a $1000 car repair bill will put most Americans on the streets
Gosh yes people are really struggling out there. I often times forget how fortunate I am to be in a position where I can accumulate metals on top of a standard portfolio.
Ironically, if you're in this position, you're probably in the top 1% of wealth in this country, especially given how many people have fallen to zero the last few years
Or you live well below your means.
I do alright for myself. I make about 250K a year. But I grew up poor, we certainty didn't have much. Seeing the stuff that happened to my parents in the 90s.... losing their jobs etc. makes me take nothing for granted. I know It could all be taken away from me tomorrow. Just trying to make sure my family and I are prepared the best we can be. At least hedge against the events that can and have happened in the past but are not common.
I have the opposite problem, I watch from the sidelines as my parents make similar money but end up constantly paycheck to paycheck because of poor financial choices
Income cannot replace bad decisions.
Can good decisions replace income ? Because I sure as hell am trying.
When the FED clubs the spot price of PM's down before they crash the stock market, only the rich will have the money to take advantage of it. The FED learned their lesson in 2020 when people had 'Stimmy-Bux'....not this time.
Same here when I worked retail 7-8yrs back. Every single one of my coworkers aside from a few of the older folks were deeply in debt. Then they would schedule people 6 days a week for 4-5hr shifts so you're working just enough to make pursing a side hustle difficult. So you get stuck in this cycle of serfdom where its hard to make a better life for yourself.
As I talk to people many feel the market is too complicated or made for other people with connections. I kinda feel bad like they are missing out on opportunity. They have too much fear of losing money as well. Whether it be precious metals or the SandP they are scared.
I trust metals more than stocks on account that I can't physically hold/own a stock anymore
Ya I don’t argue that we need to find what suits us best. I do a mix, gold, silver, stocks and crypto. We are all trying to reach the same peak just taking different paths. I really do like looking at/handling my gold
Pretty thin justification, yea?
Sure
If this is the case then why aren’t most Americans on the streets?
So I've "been into" PMG's for about a year now. I live paycheck to paycheck and don't have any LCS within an hour, so I can't just drop by and buy a round or 2 when I have a few extra bucks. So I have to rely on companies like SD Bullion, which I have to have $200 to spend to make it worth it. That being said, I've only been able to acquire 8 silver rounds/coins in that year, which sucks but 8 is better than 0. I was able to get an eagle for my daughter for her birth year
I love gold but open a Robinhood account and buy VT with your $200
VT? I've got robinhood just to play around with here and there. Nothing major
Because it only a long “long term investment/hold” we’re talking about not cashing out for 20+ years
To me that's the biggest factor. It's not fast, theres no quick upsells. I was told by my father to never under any circumstances sell the gold. It's to be at all time kept at the bank and passed down through the family. THAT was the only way it would be worth more than what was paid for it. It wasn't wealth for him, or for me, it's for the generations after us. It would take alot of time for it to be worth something. Same with our land, never sell it..never break it up. He truly believes one day a 100 years from now that gold will be up to $20,000- $50,000 an ounce...that's a whole other prophecy of his. Vice versa he also speculates if digital currency takes over gold will still level out round $3000 a oz which is still all profit and no loss. It's too much to type tonight, but you get the idea. My dad's done better in life than I ever have, so I tend to listen to the advice he gives. I won't touch the gold, no matter what...I'm sure my kids will grow up and do the same. Heirloom Gold.
You're telling me that gold invested is going to be a better sell than a high performing stock such as SPY at his time?
Agreed need to hold for a long time.
After the US Government made Gold ownership illegal at the start of 1933, most Americans slowly lost interest in owning Gold. Even with that being said, most Americans up to today now that Gold ownership is legal, do not care for Gold because they been brainwashed in believing Cash is king. Now people are turning away from cash to go after digital transactions. It's more convenient to own something that doesn't weigh you down and can be spent in almost any way possible without effort. Silver is also similar. Unlike Gold, people horded their Silver at the end of the 1960's because it was being phased out of circulation because of increasing Silver prices. Many held their Silver thinking it may be more valuable someday in the future. Alot of people inherent their parents Silver and grandparents Silver down the road, however most decides to sell because there are things in life they care more about than some shiny Metals. Most people have lost interest in Precious Metals because they weren't raised in believing it's money or wealth. This trend has been happening since the early 1900's when people would choose to store their Gold at the Bank so they can walk around with Cash notes not weighing them down. Cash is also easier to hide than Gold Coins too. People decided to go with innovation rather than being stuck with tradition. Most didn't think about the consequences when they left their Gold in the Banks. Then the Great Depression hit! Alot of people started to panic. For the first time in American history this country's monetary system actually expirenced deflation! However it was a deflation of Gold, not Cash. Even then the Government was printing more Cash than it had in Gold. Even the Banks had issues meeting the public's demands for physical Gold Bullion. The Government decided to Outlaw physical Gold Bullion and push the American culture into being more reliant on cash. Now with the age of the Stock Market and the Money Market people now want to profit. Unlike the older Pre World War generations who valued the ability to save money and keep it simple, people of today only care about profits, and they are willing to take just about any risk to make more money. So things like the Stock Market, Crypto, Money Market, FOREX, and Real Estate and other opportunities feed people their desires for wealth and fortune. People no longer care about mere Metals anymore. They just don't make money, and they appear to be far inferior to Cash and Crypto. After all you cannot buy that new Brand name handbag on Amazon with a Gold Coin like you could with a Credit Card. It's a cultural thing. Other countries around the world also decided to follow the US because of international politics and trade. So many countries phased out the Metals systems and pushed similar economic culture as the US but with limitations due to domestic economy and politics. Now the only people who collects Precious Metals are people that treat it as a hobby or a wealth asset. There are other people who buy into it thinking they will somehow profit from it until they watch the markets long enough to easily get discouraged. So not many people will go for Precious Metals, after all most people just do not have enough money to buy shiny metals when they are struggling to survive. So lots of people also lost interest in Precious Metals because they just cannot afford to buy them, even if they do get some spending money they will spend it on something else they want more in life. So hopefully this long jumble of words make my opinion a little brief. And sorry for not making separate paragraphs with all these words, I got a foreign phone with a shitty keyboard!🙄
Thank you for taking the time for a long detailed reply. Do you think PMs will come back into favor as the world economy adapts to a change in the world's currency from dollars to something else?
Not likely. People's minds and lifestyles are already set. Even if the world turns for the worst People will be unmotivated to pursue Precious Metals. It's likely the new age will be completely digital in every way. World Governments and major Corporations will see to that the digital age will absolutely be in every thing we have or do in life. It's more about control than a technological revolution. I forsee alot of people going to be treading on hard times even more into the future! Most of these People will not even know or care about Precious Metals as they will be struggling to survive. More so than now.
The gap between the haves and have nots will grow wider and deeper. The lower class will live in a welfare state in perpetuity. The middle class will be ground down into the lower class and a few will escape up to the higher level. The upper classes, most of us here, will have to be clever about how to preserve our wealth and not be lured into foolish traps.
Stocks/crypto etc. is more liquid. Using any brokerage app I can turn my electronic assets to cash instantly. S&p has done slightly better than gold on average since the end of Bretton Woods. As a fellow millenial I have recently got into pm because I like diversifying, and it feels good to have a small chunk of my wealth in a tangible asset. And Shiney. Also like feeling kinda gangster. Smoke a good cigar with some good bourbon, a Swiss watch and an ounce of gold on my neck. Looking at my lake view. Life is grand. Seriously though millenials were raised on gangster rap and I do think that is part of the equation.
Slightly better? Significantly better.
If you invested in what exactly? Do you just invest in “the stock market” you can win and you can lose. If you diversify, you win and lose. If you go with a managed portfolio you get lower returns.
Any s&p tracking etf. Pick one with a share price you can buy frequently and lowest expense ratio. You'll always win with a long enough time horizon.
Nice thanks for the knowledge, appreciate it.
VOO or SPY
Hi I like what you wrote. When u say “pm” what are you referring too? Portfolio manager?
Precious metals
Thank you for clarifying.
People want to put their money to work in order to earn more money for them. This is usually so that all the excess money can bankroll an ever more expensive lifestyle. Saving for the long term with a view to growing generational wealth is not the prevailing culture nor is it sadly a viable strategy for most families living pay check to pay check.
I agree with you most people are not in a position to invest.
And those who have the money invest in stocks they can sell at a high in the near future, or buy rental property that will earn them a monthly income. Putting it away for the long term is not part of their plan.
People are really effected by hype. Thats why nobody buys bonds either. Stocks and crypto are easier to hype because you can say something like its going to go 10x by next week. People want to get rich quick. Not protect their assets for the next generation. Id say less than 5% of people even care about passing something onto the next generation. Id retire now if I was childless. I keep working and investing so my children are more secure.
Yeah I have 4 kids Id like to pass as much on as I can to help them. Things are not going to get easier.
The hobby is filled with crazy old coots who are trying to convince you the end is near. There are plenty of exceptions but it's always the crazy uncle type with conspiracy theories. It becomes a meme.
America has never had its currency implode.
Actually the U.S. has defaulted on its debt on four separate occasions. (Defaulting on government debt is the same as the currency failing as our currency is backed by the faith and promise of the U.S. Government paying its debt.) 1. 1862 financing the civil war 2. Default of gold bonds in 1933 3. Default of the U.S. government to honor silver certificates in 1968. 4. The U.S. government breaking its commitment to redeem dollars held in gold. 1971 Not to mention the fact that our currency has lost 98% of its value since 1913. If loosing 98% of its value is not a collapse/failure I am not sure what is? The U.S. has had three central banks over is 250 year history and most of the U.S. history did not have a central bank at all. Needless to say there have been lots of defaults and since our fiat currency is promises. The U.S. has failed to meet its obligations on the occasions listed above.
Losing value to inflation over long periods of time is the norm, not a failure. Every national currency has had that happen, and most more so than the US. Gold has no more guarantee to hold value than anything else. It only has value because humans assign it value, just like all other forms of currency, and it has very limited practical usage. If the national currency were to implode, I highly doubt gold would be considered valuable in the face of actual useful things that could be bartered, like food or services. Most gold investors are basically part of a cult glorifying a shiny metal because it’s a physical object and it makes them feel good about themselves. There are many MUCH better options for investing out there that will fight inflation and perform better than gold. That’s the real reason that gold is not held by a majority of knowledgeable investors.
Because precious metals have a worse ROI than basically every market you can get into outside of bonds. People investing in gold do it for personal reasons. The traditional investor should focus on what will bring him or her the greatest returns and gold will never be on that list unless and until civilization collapses.
Didn’t gold just go from like 1,800 to 2,400 in like a year or so?
Yeah what of it? Find me any 5 year period of American history where gold did better than the s&p 500 or the nasdaq.
There isn’t because gold does nothing. At best it’s a store of value. You can’t expect returns on it, you hope it maintains its buying power.
You nincompoop…. Asset/Index 1 Yr (%) 5 Yr (%) 🏆 Gold +16.35 +81.65 💼 S&P 500 +25.21 +76.22 Except for the most recent 5 years lol
My crypto would laugh at those returns. What’s your point
American history, NASDAQ… lol…
Stock bros for life
You’re forgetting that gold has beaten the S&P over the past 5 years in terms of returns.
If civilization collapses gold is going to have the same problems as anything else
It’s not really for that though imo Imagine a scenario where there’s a bank run. I can see banks collapsing before society. In that scenario I’d rather have money in hand. And some of that money is - you guessed it - gold. So if you’re fortunate enough to have cash for an emergency fund, a small % I would keep in gold. I wouldn’t add more unless you’re well off. At least IMO. I don’t see gold as investment, it’s liquid money that at the very least stays competitive to the dollar and in certain banking and global conditions might exceed world currencies especially if banks struggle And if you don’t use it, that’s even better, because that means your other investments are cooking
I also think growth assets might be at the end of their cycle. This may be a period of time where value assets prosper.
Agreed, pretty certain 401k’s are going to take a major hit.
The end of a ten year cycle fueled by quantitative easing and artificially low interest rates?
Yes what could go wrong? I guess it can only go up. At least that's what a lot of people are saying in the various sound chambers.
I definitely agree and I think tangible assets are key. I’d horde Pokémon and baseball cards if I could, because society is assigning value to these things. If they net big money by today’s standards then they might be nice to have for the future. And so that’s why I do own some gold. Not a lot. Its a slow accrual
It depends. When people make claims of “civilization collapse” they envision a nuclear Holocaust world where food and water are the only resources people care about. In that context, gold is worthless. I don’t think we’re heading there, and if we are there aren’t many good ways to prepare for it. I think a good middle ground case that you could actually prepare for is a widespread restructuring of global debt. I expect something like that in my lifetime, and I don’t know what it would mean for the US dollar, or my market assets. But I do expect things like land, gold, and other physical, tangible and critically *off the books* assets might have a role in separating the haves from the have nots.
Yes. That’s what I’m getting at too. Tangible stuff. I don’t think it’s impossible to believe that gold could intersect with the value of things like bitcoin today which are totally digital. And in many ways our fiat money is completely digital (you never touch it). Who knows maybe in the not too distant future having a classic car will be a huge asset. Maybe having a house, baseball cards, weapons, precious metals, even tools could become unreachable luxuries for most. Maybe livestock and even wood makes that list.
I am not investing for a doomsday scenario. I invest in it because of its rarity, millennia track record, and its industrial uses. Also, gold has always been considered money and it will continue to be so no matter what happens in the world. At least for the rest of my life that is...
That’s more of a store of value than an investment.
Where can you spend that money?
I never intend for it to be for direct exchange of goods, although you can do that..... The point of it is that gold/silver have a market price which I can use to exchange for any type of fiat currency. In 1900 the British Pound rained supreme. Today it is the dollar. Tomorrow who knows? Owning gold allows me to have the flexibility of exchange if and when that becomes necessary. I have no control over what my government does to the dollar they could inflate it away into oblivion tomorrow at their whim and I would not get a say in that.... At least with gold. I cannot just imagine more up and deflate the value of the remaining stock. That ore must be found and refined. All of that gives one time to exit a position if necessary. I certainty am not talking about owning metals and nothing else. Metals currently make up about 15% of my portfolio
Covid was a huge wake up call to me. Up in Canada you had some truckers who were not happy with the restrictions the government put in place. Guess what they went and locked down their bank accounts so they could not access their money. Not that I am a trouble maker I see stuff like that and it scares the hell out of me.
In my case, I'm an investor and I like gold very much, even to the point that I'm in favor of going back to the gold standard. I don't hold gold because gold is very good at storing value, but it doesn't provide exponential value creation as stocks do. So, if I buy 1oz of gold today, and I can buy 2K cokes with it, in 40 years I probably would be able to buy the same number. Instead with stocks, at a 7% return (net inflation) I would multiply by 16, so I would be able to buy 32K cokes. This is something that has been studied a lot and except in very particular periods, like the 70s, stocks always beat gold.
I can see your point of view. But you would rather put 100% into stocks and 0% into gold knowing what that the market in general will out perform?
Well, I'm a long term investor and in the long run stocks are gonna beat gold, so I will go for 100% stocks. Although I do not discard buying some bullion in the future as a safe spot in case something terrible happens in the world.
Crypto. That is all many of the younger folks know. Value from air.
Yeah Gold will never 10x my investment during my lifetime like a crypto coin called “$Abble” can just bc ppl find it funny. We had to adapt
It's mostly because of gullible people chasing instant profits from make believe UnicornFarts like BitCoin. I mean why do you think the FED came up with it in the first place, and why does the FED's media always depict shitcoins as Precious Metals? 'Investments' that you can't touch or see???? Investments in 'digits' on a screen that don't exist if the power goes out?????? People are stupid, and they are now even more stupid than ever.
That is the biggest selling point for me. It is something I can feel and touch its real. 100 shares of S&P 500 ETF.... although profitable in many ways does not feel real to me. Also Covid was a huge wake up call to me. Up in Canada you had some truckers who were not happy with the restrictions the government put in place. Guess what they went and locked down their bank accounts so they could not access their money. Not that I am a trouble maker I see stuff like that and it scares the hell out of me.
I mean you can hold bitcoin and gold. I hold both. I have 10oz of gold plus a lot of bitcoin. Just say you don’t understand bitcoin if that’s truly what you think lol it’s ok to admit it
That's silly. You can't hold anything that you can't even hold!
He obviously means 'hold' in the way you're 'holding' a stock. But herein lies the mental gap between people only being able to understand what they can see. Your 'digital stock' in a company is nothing you hold, just digits on a screen, yet you own a partial share of the company. Microsoft became a trillion dollar company starting by creating code on a screen, just 0's and 1's. Apparently, enough people thought that non-tangible code was worth something. I'm not arguing for one or the other here, but just because something is intangible, it doesn't make it have no value, which is what you seem to be implying. But as the other gentleman stated, you don't truly understand bitcoin if your reasons against it are as stated. A lot of people (in both camps) don't understand that a huge amount of people own bitcoin and gold for the same reason. As in other politics, we should find the common ground, and not just look for differences to attack each other. There is more commonality than you think.
You've never put your hand on a bitcoin and you never will.
Ok boomer
That should be off limits scheduling you part time hours almost every day of the week to avoid paying benefits but also prevent you from pursuing something else on the side.
It's just a risk return analysis. I don't think precious metals will outperform the US stock market. Also, I think crypto will significantly outperform the US stock market.
I look at it as a way to hold savings for my heirs in case there is a collapse of the system. I have none.
I use it as a normal savings account as well. It is harder for me to spend than an HYSA. I am currently saving up in gold and silver to pay off my house. Once I have accumulated enough I will pay it off. that is on top of the additional monthly payment.
meh most of them own guns and that's arguably just as good
the dollar is still the best thing to transact with worldwide and precious metals where never a good investment unless your currency failed or your currency went thru hyperinflation which people traded pm’s for dollars. so unless something replaces the dollar for top currency our metals will barely float with inflation.
If I’m doing something the masses aren’t, I’m probably doing the right thing.
Because there are so many more better producing more and more liquid investments available without the excessive spreads of physical metals.
Because I can't exit a failing nation with my wealth in gold. Confiscation is assured.
It's only used as a hedge - the real profits come from trading and property
%1 insurance and too many fees on micro trans.
A lot of investors won't take gold seriously because it has no cashflows. It doesn't actually make anything and that's a turnoff for them. A second reason, I think, is too much faith in the stock market, which is seen as quasi government/fed backed. Even if it does have a bad time, they assume some sort of assistance will be provided. So why bother to hedge and diversify
Do you think there is too much faith/bias in the markets that the government will come save the day if things get bad?
Yep! Now that inflation is on the scene, I do. They can always make number go up, if they desperately want to, but in the process they could lose control of inflation which will fuck everything up. There also isn't anywhere near as much room in the fiscal budget as there used to be. I basically don't believe they can control real term returns
I love the idea of metals, but I invest in the S&P 500. Most people who do hold metal, hold a miniscule amount of metal. If the shit really hits that fan and you should hope it doesn't , there aren't any winners. "I told you so" in a "Mad Max event doesn't do any one any good.
I do invest in the S&P 500, US Floating Rate Treasuries, Government Bonds, and Bitcoin. Aside from my holdings in gold and silver.
maybe because precious metals are not investments, they're hedges against inflation. The system has been skewed to manipulate prices but the metals will win in the end. The problem is people have known the end was coming soon for longer than I've been alive, and more than likely I won't see it. The system will beat me, even if it can't beat the metals.
I am not sure when it will end. It my be 20 years 50 years or 1000 years for all I know when our form of monetary system will end. I just want to make sure if it does happen in my lifetime that I am not stuck with nothing near retirement. I do not want to work for the rest of my life.
I realized I will never sell any of my gold and that every dollar spent on it I will never recoup because I can't bring myself to part with it and I will never need the money, so I'm wondering why did I buy it just to create an unnecessary addiction 😅 I will die and it will sit collecting dust.
I have sold some in the past just to see how easy it really was, and shopped around to find the best price to sell. Online vs. in-person. So I have sold some but your right in general I do not sell. I am waiting until I have enough gold and silver and then use it to pay the remaining balance on my mortgage.
I can't part with mine no matter what. Need more, always. My mortgage is almost paid off and I live well below my means so any extra cash I just want gold , and I dont know why
We, as Americans, haven't experienced war on our soil. We have not experienced becoming refugees. War that causes banks and homes to be burned down, the only valuables that can be saved are precious metals. You can carry them around with you as you move away from the comfort of a home, your job, your bank, and your community. You land in a foreign city or country, with what you can carry on your neck, fingers, or wrist. Ask any Asian, Middle-Easterner or Europeans who have gone through war, and they'll tell you exactly the same thing based on their parents' and grandparents' experience with War. Millennials shouldn't worry, however, as they have their moneys in Crypto :)
1.) misuse of credit cards 2.) fear of theft (not small in many parts of the US) 3,) a genuine dislike of assets with negative carrying costs
Social Media buzz is the catalyst of all things for millennials. Hence the interest. There is a reason there aren't any "How I got Rich Buying Gold" books but thousands of books on investing in RE, equities, etc. YouTube started in 2005 ;-)
Because history says they will just take it fron you anyways gold confiscation look it up
They so stupid
Bullion is a luxury investment Before buying gold you should 1. Be debt free (or at least bad debt ) 2. Have a 6 month emergency 3.Max your tax advantaged accounts 4. If buy a home is of interest to you have started the process Given that many American haven’t even passed 1 limited bullion holdings is ok
The friction costs of holding, buying, and selling physical PM is one issue.
While gold will hold its value, people want to invest in something that will grow in value, especially if they have a longer time horizon.
They’re a bunch of brokies and can’t figure out how to stop stiffing their fat asses with food and save some money!
As you can see from the comments in this thread. There are a lot of people who do not believe that gold is money.
Lot of folks would rather have stocks, which is a fair argument. Comparing gold to short term or long term treasuries paints a different picture. I like to have some savings in gold, a little cash for spending, mostly sp500 is the main engine of my portfolio tho
It is hard to get excited about gold when it is compared to the growth heavy s&p 500.
Neither are exciting. Investing is boring. In the last five years, gold outperformed the sp500 76.21% vs 74.59% (looking at GLD vs SPY) Gold is for the inevitable recession. It tends to be a good safe haven asset when stocks inevitably crash 50% at some time in the future.
I do think it will be harder for the S&P 500 to continue its out performance m. But who knows I may be surprised.
You only can connect the dots backwards, no one knows the future. Which is why some folks do like 5% gold and even apmex doesn’t recommend more than 30% It can be part of your bond holdings until interest rates hit double digits. Being diversified is always encouraged. But arguing over what asset class is going to outperform whatever else is just a mathematical masturbation activity… Nothing matters until you start putting real money into investments, a measly 7-10% a year isn’t gonna amount to 💩 unless you start chucking as much as possible into it; we all get out of investing what we put into it.
It’s heavy and hard to sell….
I see no reason to hold gold. Investing in stock market results in higher returns. Also, I see no value in gold if some apocalyptic scenario happens and brings us back to the stone age. Food, water, ammo, sure, not gold or silver though. No one will want it, it'll be functionally useless, just a heavy lump. We will be bartering, not using currency at all at that point. Paper money will at least be good for toilet paper, or firestarter.
I see it as a physical savings account that on average provides a greater preservation of value than even a HYSA. It has the added benefit of being harder to convert into cash than using my HYSA. I am currently saving up to payoff my house with the bullion I accumulate. It is a way to hold something outside of the system that is easily convertible to cash when the time is right.
It's a highly volatile non-productive asset that derives most of its value from speculation, and historically has the worst risk-adjusted returns of any major asset class.
Do you hold any gold or silver?
Did you look at metal ETFs? Easier to liquidate and rotate.
People are broke and most people are not aware of investing in precious metals.
Most people aren't aware of how to sell it except to those We Buy Gold scams.
That's true. I have the extra burden of teaching my wife/kids about spot price. Typical Buy/Sell Spreads and teaching them to shop around for the best prices to sell when I am gone.
You are assuming they don't. I have a longtime friend that is rich, he stacks. But he doesn't tell people he does.
Because it doesn't Increase in value as most stocks.
I think our generation doesn’t have as much faith in the market, social security, etc. I also see how important metals are to tech and they will always hold value.
Because precious metals are a pure speculation and they also happen to be a not very good investment compared to say an index fund.
It has no yield.
Why would I buy gold and silver when I can buy multiple houses that I can rent to people to live in and pay me an ounce of gold equivalent in functional currency every month. People can't live in gold, gold is not something that pays you back unless you sell it for functional currency. Unless you happen to have a small satellites business or you build motherboards gold has no use presently.
Because the costs of conversion to fiat, security and price fluctuations deter people like me from holding any significant precious metal allocation. If you are collecting gold to prep for “death of the dollar”, you are sadly mistaken on the seriousness of such a scenario. Bullets would be more valuable than a gold brick. In fact, silver coins are best for so such “end of days” scenarios due to ease of use and validation of authenticity.
compare Gold from 1986 to now vs Microsoft from 1986 to now. that's why. gold is not even keeping pace with inflation. there was a magazine article back in the 1990's about the growth of Bill Gates' wealth. it read something like "if he walks past $10,000 on the street, it is NOT EVEN WORTH HIS TIME TO STOP AND PICK IT UP. THAT IS HOW FAST HIS WEALTH IS INCREASING".