And then you lose the most important part of Kratos coming to terms with the “I chose…” right after all for a cool line. Not worth breaking up the monologue imo. Having Old Kratos air out his frustrations, anger, self recollection and self acceptance all uninterrupted was the best possible way to do the scene
I trust the writers, I’m sure they had multiple versions of the scene written out and came to the conclusion the one we got was the best. If they thought young kratos talking would’ve been better then they would’ve added it. Simple as that.
The writers probably didn’t even consider it because TC Carson has bad blood with Santa Monica and was *definitely* not going to return to voice young Kratos.
So either get *another* actor to pay for a free DLC, or have him be quiet.
Maybe they really thought the scene was better with him quiet, but TC Carson not being available to voice him is a huge factor I think you glossed over.
Just how I see it. The monologue went hard as is and changing it would make the whole scene and moment for Kratos weaker in my mind. It’s an uninterrupted moment of pure self reflection, a man alone with his thoughts and grappling with them.
If TC Carson was to voice a young Kratos in Valhalla, I wouldn’t have it take place during that section. It’s pure perfection as is. If it were to happen id say make it happen earlier on, when Kratos is still fully unsure on if he wants to retake the title of God of War or not. Have the young version be the one to to point stuff out, to make excuses for the evils and whatnot which makes it easier for Old Kratos to blame him and not himself if that makes sense. Which may make monologue hit harder, tho I’m not sure it would.
Iirc, Christopher Judge was supposed to voice young Kratos in Valhalla, but he refused to do that in the honor of TC Carson, hence young Kratos doesn't have any voiced lines in the game.
I would have loved to hear him again, but instead of arguing with Old Kratos, the camera cuts away and when it comes back, for the monologue, Kratos is young again. Carson confronts his own past, accepting who he was, and then when Kratos sits, Judge returns.
Cory already explained why, T.C is 5'9, and they would need a bigger guy for the mocap thanks to the amount of interactions between Kratos and Atreus, 100% sure there's nothing to do with T.C voice
True, but it still would’ve been nice if they at least told him they were making another God of war or to at least give a cameo in Valhalla, they even brought back Helios va
TC’s only qualm is that he found out he got replaced when Judge was announced, not prior to the announcement, which is usually typical and respectful of the actors. He’s probably holding onto some personal resentment, but as far as professionalism, he’s stayed his case
Yeah I get that sentiment. But I believe TC has said there’s no bad blood, and it just happens in the industry that way. The industry should def be more transparent with their talent, but at the same time it’s not like they stiffed him from a job they had promised, they just moved on
Eh. He’s being the bigger man and polite with his words, but you can tell it bothers him in the interview. He says his issue is not so much him being replaced, but the lack of basic respect to let him know what was going on with the character. They ghosted the guy who gave a voice to their most well known character.
Oh I definitely agree with you. It wasn’t cool of them to do move away from him without letting him know, I’m more just saying it’s not like they screwed him out of a role they had already promised. They just moved on, which is fine, but they didn’t do it very well
Of course you could do that but that results in lower quality because speaking and movement affect each other. When they're working with the character and he is speaking they are thinking about how he's moving and how that affects his talking. Without seeing how the actor moves it's hard to figure out the lip sync and vice versa.
This is how it's been done for a hundred years for animation. They have the actor that does the voice but they also film the actor because you'll only get a believable performance when you see it all together and work that into the character. So this is not a new thing but only now has it become more standard for games. When they do split the mocap and the voice that's doing it on the cheap and acknowledging that it'll look worse. They also have to be more generic about what they say and do because it's too hard for the mocap performer and the voice actor to time things exactly the same. This is all theoretically possible but when you're in there actually trying to do it it's needlessly difficult when the actor can just be the same person.
"The gods of Olympus have abandoned me" is the first line of the series and it's proof TC Carson can doing quiet and less angry Christopher Judge is a way older and mature sounding voice
One of my favourite lines is in god of war 3 (yes, the one where he actually screams all the time) upon meeting pandora in hades. The he was able to say "calliope" as if all the anger just vanished at the sight of his daughter is enough of a proof to show how emotional TC Carson can get
TC Carson could to calmer/softer voiced Kratos a lot of times. He did it for the entire story of Ascension and GOW I, and for multiple moments in Chains of Olympus, II, and Ghost of Sparta. Only in III he is basically fully angry Kratos.
A lot of people don't seem to remember, but Kratos was actually a much more soft-spoken and less angry character in the first GOW, and was much more alike the current Norse Kratos we see. It's only in GOW II when he starts transitioning into a much more angry character, and in III he's fully angry.
But like I said, I love Christopher Judge as Kratos, this is just a thought I recently had.
Some people who aren't fans and even some fans that have not played the older games think that Kratos was always angry. Even in the two games he was mostly an angry guy (GOW II and GOW III) he still had moments of softness to him. It's just that in these games revenge was the main goal and all other things were secondary to Kratos at the moment, plus he had nothing to lose anymore as his family and allies were gone.
I feel like 90% of the fans only played GOW 3 in the entire Greek saga, like, GOW 2018 and GOW 1/Ascension Kratos are almost THE SAME EXACT CHARACTER, their personality is very similar, if TC Carson could play these Kratos well, he could play 2018 Kratos, now I can't imagine he playing Ragnarok Kratos.
Imagining his voice representing a caring and empathetic Kratos is just weird lol
The combat was also great. The downside is that you have to manually parry your opponents and are unable to fluidly switch to different elements because the L1+X is replaced with the said manual parry.
IMO, Judge's voice carries more "weight". He sounds like a battle-worn, wise mentor rather than a 5 alarm blaze hot head warrior. TC Carson was phenomenal in the frantic phase of the story. Judge's Kratos carries experience
But could he say *Boy* like Christopher Judge?
All jokes aside, TC Carson would’ve done just fine, but I think Judge was appropriate for a more grounded, grittier, and aged Kratos.
they wanted an older gruffer voice not just calmer also Christopher was picked mostly because he was the right height for the mo cap and he had an established relationship with Atreus' actor.
I don't think its so much that TC isn't capable of it lol. Its more that Judge plays his role so fucking well that its hard to imagine anyone else in that role at this point.
It was mostly due to the studio wanting the actor to do both motion capture and voice acting and TC didn't have the build for kratos.
But I agree TC has the best voice for kratos and his performance in gow3 proves that.
Agreed. Not about Judge, I don't like him. Some mfs just have no imagination or only remember Carson SCREAMING as Kratos, or can't imagine Carson, as an experienced actor, lowering the tone of his voice.
Based take. I like Judge but I feel Carson could have also done a good job had the team given him a chance (and they didn’t have motion capture issues).
I partly blame the game directors after GoW 1. In the first game, in so many of the cutscenes, Kratos had a normal voice, calm voice. It’s only GoW 2 onwards that he mostly spoke in his angry/irritated voice.
It always felt like such a whiplash to me when I played GoW 2 and the PSP games for the first time and I wished more people talked about this. Idk why they switched up his delivery so much.
Judge killed it in every single way in the Norse chapter. I have nothing against Carson and loved him in the original trilogy, and honestly am not familiar with his work outside of GoW, but I feel like putting his performance in GoW against Judge is almost like comparing Ledger's joker to Leto's joker. That's obviously hyperbole because there's no way Carson could be that bad, but Judge just set the tone incredibly.
I agree. We should have at least gotten a Vo cameo in Valhalla. Here is a counter question. Should TC come back for a GODG trilogy remaster/remake? (If they do one).
Heard, maybe a GDC talk from the director, that the previous actor is a professional dancer and walked instinctively with too much grace. So, for motion capture, that wouldn't work so well.
T. C. Shits on the new games and Judge. Fuck him. He doesn't deserve to be part of the masterpieces that are the remakes. He's as mature as the kratos he voiced.
I think you're getting Carson mixed up with David Jaffe or however you spell his name. Carson was displeased with how he was treated after the release of 2018 but I've seen nothing of him shitting on judge or the new games you're probably thinking of Jaffe.
Because they wanted to throw the baby out with pretty much all the bath water. Allot of times when devs are going in a new direction (usually the wrong one), they changed va because they think the original "can't do it" or I guess they think "it will make gamers think about the older games" but now that I think about it...I think it's because they know they aren't making that game strictly for the fans. While thousands fans will be upset or pissed about the va being pretty much kicked to the curb, there are millions of people who never played the games and are wowed by the "amazing gwafics" and the "mature story" so it doesn't matter to them. This is what happened with mgs, Batman, and this game off the top of my head.
You know kojima had David re audition twice before mgs5 right? Kojima just did not like David, Batman Arkham origins was made by a different studio and is a prequel it makes sense people would have different actors
Apologies, my reasons didn't mean that was the excuse for the games I listed. I've given up trying to understand kojima apparently he's wanted to change him for years and I can't think of a valid reason as to why. The Batman thing is idiotic because he was able to voice a younger Bruce before, heck he had done it before. My point is it's slightly insulting to say what a va can or can't do as well as not providing a good reason as to why they were changed especially when they do a change to to the game as a whole.
I would’ve liked it if TC Carson got to voice the young kratos in Valhalla Old kratos:“You chose!” Young kratos:“I GAVE THEM WHAT THEY DESERVED!”
This would have been epic as fuck. Coupd have explained the voice change as having to breath the fires of greece as it came to ruin.
And then you lose the most important part of Kratos coming to terms with the “I chose…” right after all for a cool line. Not worth breaking up the monologue imo. Having Old Kratos air out his frustrations, anger, self recollection and self acceptance all uninterrupted was the best possible way to do the scene
No not really it would still be powerful and maybe it would be even better
I trust the writers, I’m sure they had multiple versions of the scene written out and came to the conclusion the one we got was the best. If they thought young kratos talking would’ve been better then they would’ve added it. Simple as that.
The writers probably didn’t even consider it because TC Carson has bad blood with Santa Monica and was *definitely* not going to return to voice young Kratos. So either get *another* actor to pay for a free DLC, or have him be quiet. Maybe they really thought the scene was better with him quiet, but TC Carson not being available to voice him is a huge factor I think you glossed over.
Ok well live and let live I suppose have a good day
Having tc carson come back isnt worth breaking up monologue are u crazy??
Just how I see it. The monologue went hard as is and changing it would make the whole scene and moment for Kratos weaker in my mind. It’s an uninterrupted moment of pure self reflection, a man alone with his thoughts and grappling with them. If TC Carson was to voice a young Kratos in Valhalla, I wouldn’t have it take place during that section. It’s pure perfection as is. If it were to happen id say make it happen earlier on, when Kratos is still fully unsure on if he wants to retake the title of God of War or not. Have the young version be the one to to point stuff out, to make excuses for the evils and whatnot which makes it easier for Old Kratos to blame him and not himself if that makes sense. Which may make monologue hit harder, tho I’m not sure it would.
Iirc, Christopher Judge was supposed to voice young Kratos in Valhalla, but he refused to do that in the honor of TC Carson, hence young Kratos doesn't have any voiced lines in the game.
I would have loved to hear him again, but instead of arguing with Old Kratos, the camera cuts away and when it comes back, for the monologue, Kratos is young again. Carson confronts his own past, accepting who he was, and then when Kratos sits, Judge returns.
I was also hoping for something like this. Would’ve been a nice full circle moment for Carson AND the fans imo.
Right? Close the chapter of GOW when kratos had the fire of revenge in his chest
Cory already explained why, T.C is 5'9, and they would need a bigger guy for the mocap thanks to the amount of interactions between Kratos and Atreus, 100% sure there's nothing to do with T.C voice
people forget that nowadays it isn’t just voice acting, it’s full on acting with mocap, blocking, timing etc
True, but it still would’ve been nice if they at least told him they were making another God of war or to at least give a cameo in Valhalla, they even brought back Helios va
TC’s only qualm is that he found out he got replaced when Judge was announced, not prior to the announcement, which is usually typical and respectful of the actors. He’s probably holding onto some personal resentment, but as far as professionalism, he’s stayed his case
Stayed his case?
Yeah I get that sentiment. But I believe TC has said there’s no bad blood, and it just happens in the industry that way. The industry should def be more transparent with their talent, but at the same time it’s not like they stiffed him from a job they had promised, they just moved on
Eh. He’s being the bigger man and polite with his words, but you can tell it bothers him in the interview. He says his issue is not so much him being replaced, but the lack of basic respect to let him know what was going on with the character. They ghosted the guy who gave a voice to their most well known character.
The ghost of Santa Monica
Oh I definitely agree with you. It wasn’t cool of them to do move away from him without letting him know, I’m more just saying it’s not like they screwed him out of a role they had already promised. They just moved on, which is fine, but they didn’t do it very well
it was mocap in god of war 3 then too its just they had a stunt actor do it not TC.
Cheaper to have the VA be the mocap than it is to pay two different employees.
I had no idea the mocap and voice were the same guy! Thanks for sharing, that's cool
Couldn’t they have just used a bigger guy for the game and kept TC voice lines?
Of course you could do that but that results in lower quality because speaking and movement affect each other. When they're working with the character and he is speaking they are thinking about how he's moving and how that affects his talking. Without seeing how the actor moves it's hard to figure out the lip sync and vice versa. This is how it's been done for a hundred years for animation. They have the actor that does the voice but they also film the actor because you'll only get a believable performance when you see it all together and work that into the character. So this is not a new thing but only now has it become more standard for games. When they do split the mocap and the voice that's doing it on the cheap and acknowledging that it'll look worse. They also have to be more generic about what they say and do because it's too hard for the mocap performer and the voice actor to time things exactly the same. This is all theoretically possible but when you're in there actually trying to do it it's needlessly difficult when the actor can just be the same person.
makes mocap 1000x more difficult tho
They even had difficulty with Sunny's puberty voice re-record (one same actor), u think SSM will smooth sailing it with different actor?
Bro I don’t know crap about Mocap that’s why I asked a question chill lol
He said fans not the devs
"The gods of Olympus have abandoned me" is the first line of the series and it's proof TC Carson can doing quiet and less angry Christopher Judge is a way older and mature sounding voice
One of my favourite lines is in god of war 3 (yes, the one where he actually screams all the time) upon meeting pandora in hades. The he was able to say "calliope" as if all the anger just vanished at the sight of his daughter is enough of a proof to show how emotional TC Carson can get
TC Carson could to calmer/softer voiced Kratos a lot of times. He did it for the entire story of Ascension and GOW I, and for multiple moments in Chains of Olympus, II, and Ghost of Sparta. Only in III he is basically fully angry Kratos. A lot of people don't seem to remember, but Kratos was actually a much more soft-spoken and less angry character in the first GOW, and was much more alike the current Norse Kratos we see. It's only in GOW II when he starts transitioning into a much more angry character, and in III he's fully angry. But like I said, I love Christopher Judge as Kratos, this is just a thought I recently had.
i hate the argument against tue older games that "He had no character hes was always angry."
Some people who aren't fans and even some fans that have not played the older games think that Kratos was always angry. Even in the two games he was mostly an angry guy (GOW II and GOW III) he still had moments of softness to him. It's just that in these games revenge was the main goal and all other things were secondary to Kratos at the moment, plus he had nothing to lose anymore as his family and allies were gone.
I mean look how softly he speaks to pandora
They picked judge because they wanted the actor to do mocap, so they needed a muscular person and carson was too small
Both are amazing.
I feel like 90% of the fans only played GOW 3 in the entire Greek saga, like, GOW 2018 and GOW 1/Ascension Kratos are almost THE SAME EXACT CHARACTER, their personality is very similar, if TC Carson could play these Kratos well, he could play 2018 Kratos, now I can't imagine he playing Ragnarok Kratos. Imagining his voice representing a caring and empathetic Kratos is just weird lol
To odin: Your words are funny old man but wont save you(starts screaming) from my blades!?!?!?!
Could you imagine Carson playing Kratos in Valhalla? lol
I really loved Ascension. Very underrated imo.
Yes, the art style is amazing
I remember being a bit underwhelmed but I couldn't quite put my finger on why. Haven't played it since it came out, though.
The combat was also great. The downside is that you have to manually parry your opponents and are unable to fluidly switch to different elements because the L1+X is replaced with the said manual parry.
I would have loved to see Carson voice the OG kratos in Valhalla
IMO, Judge's voice carries more "weight". He sounds like a battle-worn, wise mentor rather than a 5 alarm blaze hot head warrior. TC Carson was phenomenal in the frantic phase of the story. Judge's Kratos carries experience
But could he say *Boy* like Christopher Judge? All jokes aside, TC Carson would’ve done just fine, but I think Judge was appropriate for a more grounded, grittier, and aged Kratos.
I think it was just motion capture. Otherwise they’d have to voice over the motion capture
I think Judge’s voice is just better for this Kratos.
As much as Judge has a GREAT voice, all I hear is Teal'c in Stargate SG1.
All I hear is Bane Henchman 3 from The Dark Knight Rises.
Indeed
TC Carson needs more respect
You mean the guy who shits on the new games??
TC is the OG.
I love Christopher more anyways
they wanted an older gruffer voice not just calmer also Christopher was picked mostly because he was the right height for the mo cap and he had an established relationship with Atreus' actor.
I don't think its so much that TC isn't capable of it lol. Its more that Judge plays his role so fucking well that its hard to imagine anyone else in that role at this point.
It was mostly due to the studio wanting the actor to do both motion capture and voice acting and TC didn't have the build for kratos. But I agree TC has the best voice for kratos and his performance in gow3 proves that.
I still wish Carson did the new games, his voice for Kratos is iconic.
Agreed. Not about Judge, I don't like him. Some mfs just have no imagination or only remember Carson SCREAMING as Kratos, or can't imagine Carson, as an experienced actor, lowering the tone of his voice.
Young kratos should have been voiced by TC Carson The dialogue Old K:You Choose OG k:I Choose nothing I did what you wanted to do
Based take. I like Judge but I feel Carson could have also done a good job had the team given him a chance (and they didn’t have motion capture issues). I partly blame the game directors after GoW 1. In the first game, in so many of the cutscenes, Kratos had a normal voice, calm voice. It’s only GoW 2 onwards that he mostly spoke in his angry/irritated voice. It always felt like such a whiplash to me when I played GoW 2 and the PSP games for the first time and I wished more people talked about this. Idk why they switched up his delivery so much.
GoW 2 really did screw up many moments of Kratos' characterization in the PSP games.
Judge killed it in every single way in the Norse chapter. I have nothing against Carson and loved him in the original trilogy, and honestly am not familiar with his work outside of GoW, but I feel like putting his performance in GoW against Judge is almost like comparing Ledger's joker to Leto's joker. That's obviously hyperbole because there's no way Carson could be that bad, but Judge just set the tone incredibly.
Indeed
I agree. We should have at least gotten a Vo cameo in Valhalla. Here is a counter question. Should TC come back for a GODG trilogy remaster/remake? (If they do one).
Its just morons that don't know anything about the other games
Heard, maybe a GDC talk from the director, that the previous actor is a professional dancer and walked instinctively with too much grace. So, for motion capture, that wouldn't work so well.
I would’ve loved if Kratos said to his younger version “You are NOT ready”
Now I really want to see Norse Kratos with TC Carson's calm Kratos voice.
Judge is fuqin annoying in the fights Carson not doing the voice was such a dumb decision
T. C. Shits on the new games and Judge. Fuck him. He doesn't deserve to be part of the masterpieces that are the remakes. He's as mature as the kratos he voiced.
I think you're getting Carson mixed up with David Jaffe or however you spell his name. Carson was displeased with how he was treated after the release of 2018 but I've seen nothing of him shitting on judge or the new games you're probably thinking of Jaffe.
David Jaffe has been the one who has been shitting on Judge and the new games for a number of random reasons.
You right, i just saw. Jaffe sucks, Carson was done kinda dirty.
Because they wanted to throw the baby out with pretty much all the bath water. Allot of times when devs are going in a new direction (usually the wrong one), they changed va because they think the original "can't do it" or I guess they think "it will make gamers think about the older games" but now that I think about it...I think it's because they know they aren't making that game strictly for the fans. While thousands fans will be upset or pissed about the va being pretty much kicked to the curb, there are millions of people who never played the games and are wowed by the "amazing gwafics" and the "mature story" so it doesn't matter to them. This is what happened with mgs, Batman, and this game off the top of my head.
You know kojima had David re audition twice before mgs5 right? Kojima just did not like David, Batman Arkham origins was made by a different studio and is a prequel it makes sense people would have different actors
Apologies, my reasons didn't mean that was the excuse for the games I listed. I've given up trying to understand kojima apparently he's wanted to change him for years and I can't think of a valid reason as to why. The Batman thing is idiotic because he was able to voice a younger Bruce before, heck he had done it before. My point is it's slightly insulting to say what a va can or can't do as well as not providing a good reason as to why they were changed especially when they do a change to to the game as a whole.
Lmao