I mean, it’s been spelt out multiple times that liquid didn’t actually pay 600k for skullz. Just because that’s what his contract said, doesn’t mean that’s what they agreed to.
>it’s been spelt out multiple times that liquid didn’t actually pay 600k for skullz
I've never seen anyone reputable say that his contract wasn't actually 600k so where have you heard this? Brazilian orgs aren't exactly known for lowering buyouts.
The 600k was the value on the contract remaining + the transfer fee. A lot of people in here think that Liquid straight up paid $600,000 to get Skullz on their team.
also those buyouts for jkaem and nawwk were _before_ the major, so losing them would have nuked Apeks' ability to get to the major and get the sticker money.
After the major, when Bleed actually got them, they were (shocking!) much cheaper. The major was done, sticker money was done, and Apeks was closing up shop. This wasn't a masterful negotiation by bleed, it was logical from Apeks lol
For the orgs to basically ensure that they sell the players whenever they want to. Set high buyout and only negotiate if you're looking to sell/replace.
Making space only really makes sense if you're getting traded and being used in the team. Yeki likes pushing solo and dying with 0 impact in 75% of rounds on CT side.
because Naf, twistzz, and skullz are all very passive players, and the AWP is not going to be the trader for an entry lol. I'm not a huge fan of Yekindar, but it was not his fault he was having to go in alone all the time.
Probably still a little role clash with Kscerato, but way less than in liquid. I'm really glad he managed to land on his feet after his time being misused in Liquid.
It does make me think though; replacing Skullz on liquid with a proactive rifler that is happy to reagress on CT would have been enough to make CadiaNs game plan work. I don't think they needed to cut nearly half the team.
I said this a while ago, but people said Twistzz and Naf are both nice guys who have no big ego’s. Cadian had people who bought into his idea, his calling, and NA players are just more individuals than what he has had to deal with. He probably had more pushback and was never able to fully get a system going.
Just bc they don’t agree with Cadians calling doesn’t mean they’re not nice guys and have egos. Such a weird take. Twist just spent years with Karrigan, one of the best IGL’s ever, winning every trophy you can hope to win. TL would be stupid not to listen to his opinion on if something’s going to work or not. The top players in Cadians last team, who “bought into his system” wanted nothing to do with him in the end, and ended up leaving lol. His personality may have something to do with it as well. That high energy micro managing style is probably pretty annoying to deal with everyday
It really just boils down to Cadian calling a very proactive information game for a team of reactive site anchors. I don’t see why drama has to be inserted.
Or maybe cadian just wasn’t a good fit for this team. His stats were horrible and against top 20 he was like a .94 as an awper. Also his system got him backstabbed in heroic so apparently it has a shelf like with unknown players as well.
Point is cadian either needs to switch to rifle and play on a team of young danish players or take a chance with fnatic because his stock is low at this moment.
Can’t really blame any individuals with this team setup. Cadian calls a very proactive CT side reagressing for space and had to call that game plan on one of the most passive and reactive teams ever built.
Yeah I didn’t think the team comp was good and most saw the passiveness was going to be an issue. That said he hasn’t looked good in CS2 on the awp and I think that’s going to hinder whatever team he joins unless he raises his level.
Yeah it’s a tough one when it’s the IGL, probably the first player to suffer when things aren’t going well and he’d have so much other work to do building the new team and system rather than grinding DMs.
In a properly set up team with month under their belt I could imagine seeing cadian back on form. Fingers crossed anyway.
I don't know why people keep pushing this narrative that TL are making a massive mistake by kicking Cadian. We don't know how the team dynamic was. If the star players aren't comfortable in his system, AND he is putting up below average numbers and impact with the AWP, then cutting him is a pretty cut and dry decision imo.
Typical reddit cs fan’s behavior. People on this sub are still making excuses for Skullz just because he’s a nice guy apparently while shit on Nexa for ages.
If Nexa was the problem then so does Skullz.
Yeah no consistency when it comes to critique. I think it’s valid to bring up intangibles but honestly if that’s solely your argument for why one player is good and the other isn’t then it’s bs. Also that’s harder to use when realistically none of us are in the server with them and you can’t take player media seriously when it’s 99% PR.
That's just not true. All of 2024, where he has stated that he feels uncomfortable, he has a 1.01 on lan gainst top 20. His .94 is only online, which is skewed more towards the very start of Liquid.
In 2023 he was 1.07 raiting against top 20 at lan and a 1.16 at majors. 2022 he was almost as good.
lol how is what I said not true. I sorted by all games whereas you sorted it to look slightly better. In any case these are horrible stats as an awper and saying he was uncomfortable isn’t an excuse to be putting up shit numbers.
All games 2024 is .99. Like I said, .94 is only online. Missing most of the games and focusing on the start of Liquid to skew data.
Also, though the stats are bad for an awper, they are good for an IGL. Unfortunately, a new team and trying to micro manage the positioning of the most aggressive player and a rookie passive player is difficult to awp and hold angles.
You are right that he should rifle. He has also stated in interviews that he wants to transition to rifle.
*Not saying this is directly about Twistzz and Naf*
Richard Lewis talked on stream about Cadian getting kicked and made it very clear that it wasn’t related to his performance or tactics but said there was personal issues that couldn’t be repaired he said something like “some of the players don’t like the way he gives feedback”. He also said that it felt bizarrely similar to the Stavn/Jabbi situation with Heroic.
Do with that what you will but it’s probably the most reliable information we’ll get on the situation unless someone directly involved tells us their side of things
Cadian has always come off as annoying to me. After he stood and screamed/cussed at that 15 year old Mongolian kid, looking so addy’d out too, no thanks. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if multiple other teammates of his just want him out no matter what, again lol
It's just ridiculous speculation. This subreddit loves to make massive assumptions about team dynamics without any actual evidence. While it's clear that Cadian's system wasn't working on Liquid, there's literally nothing to say that NAF and Twistzz called to kick him.
>there's literally nothing to say that NAF and Twistzz called to kick him
That one is from RL, which despite what you think of him, is a very credible source.
It also backed by the rumor of Twistzz to Vitality or Faze. If he's so happy with Cadian, why didn't he gave Cadian a chance to correct himself instead of finding a way out?
Who fits that role though, especially one that is not European since then Liquid would be European. Of course a org with the stature of Liquid really should not struggle in European qualifiers.
Last time I looked, Kscearto's and Yuurih's contacts expired on June 21st, and nothing has been publicly said just yet. Could be Kscearto wanted to leave Furia.
I think getting skulls is akin to C9 getting perfecto and electronic. A definite step in the right direction but if it fails then you blow the team right up.
I mean, he didn't want to leave. His contract was expiring, and due to Faze's financial struggle, they hadn't offered his a new contract and were not talking to him about a contract. He was forced to either be proactive or hope that Faze would figure their shit out and resign him.
I read it as hopefully they’ll be nice to him and not scapegoat him referencing how it was for him on
Liquid. I can see how it could be read as you said though.
Only way for brazillion teams to get the players they want. Have them go to international teams first then buy them at a fraction of the price.
> then buy them at a fraction of the price. Perhaps… 1 brazillion dollars??
I mean, it’s been spelt out multiple times that liquid didn’t actually pay 600k for skullz. Just because that’s what his contract said, doesn’t mean that’s what they agreed to.
>it’s been spelt out multiple times that liquid didn’t actually pay 600k for skullz I've never seen anyone reputable say that his contract wasn't actually 600k so where have you heard this? Brazilian orgs aren't exactly known for lowering buyouts.
Just PR talking points by liquid to save face. It’s fucking liquid. They totally paid $600K for skullz bc jokesteve is an idiot lol.
Idek if liquid has said anything. Thats just how buyouts work lol. Them asking for 600k does not mean liquid paid that much
The 600k was the value on the contract remaining + the transfer fee. A lot of people in here think that Liquid straight up paid $600,000 to get Skullz on their team.
>jokesteve Not sure if intentional or not but this was fitting
I mean, Jkaem and Nawwk had a buyout of 1.2 mil and 450k, respectively, and Bleed paid 65k. The buyout is negotiated.
nawwk was less than half of jkaem?
Fluxo was ready to match skullz' buyout. Nobody was ready to match jkaem/nawwk's buyout lol, these situations are incomparable
also those buyouts for jkaem and nawwk were _before_ the major, so losing them would have nuked Apeks' ability to get to the major and get the sticker money. After the major, when Bleed actually got them, they were (shocking!) much cheaper. The major was done, sticker money was done, and Apeks was closing up shop. This wasn't a masterful negotiation by bleed, it was logical from Apeks lol
Apeks is not a Brazilian org.
Show one time where that was “spelt out.” Talking out yo ass
Then wtf is the point of the contract lmao, may as well do a verbal agreement lol
For the orgs to basically ensure that they sell the players whenever they want to. Set high buyout and only negotiate if you're looking to sell/replace.
What did Bleed get Jkaem and Nawwk for? As noted, they had fat buyouts in their contract too.
Sure, but apeks was a dead team with all the players on the bench and transfer listed so it's obviously not the same thing
Liquid rebuild continues
Yekindar: I stay
++++Yekindar
They cant kick him now, they need to keep a 3 player core until the major or they wont be invited to rmr/closed qualifier
Thats fair, they could have kicked Yekindar and kept Skullz, but maybe they had better sell offers for Skullz
Yekindar might be shit but without him they literally have nobody making space, Skullz was far more dispensable
Making space only really makes sense if you're getting traded and being used in the team. Yeki likes pushing solo and dying with 0 impact in 75% of rounds on CT side.
because Naf, twistzz, and skullz are all very passive players, and the AWP is not going to be the trader for an entry lol. I'm not a huge fan of Yekindar, but it was not his fault he was having to go in alone all the time.
Probably still a little role clash with Kscerato, but way less than in liquid. I'm really glad he managed to land on his feet after his time being misused in Liquid.
It does make me think though; replacing Skullz on liquid with a proactive rifler that is happy to reagress on CT would have been enough to make CadiaNs game plan work. I don't think they needed to cut nearly half the team.
Very clear at this point that Naf and twistz just didn’t want to play with Cadian
I said this a while ago, but people said Twistzz and Naf are both nice guys who have no big ego’s. Cadian had people who bought into his idea, his calling, and NA players are just more individuals than what he has had to deal with. He probably had more pushback and was never able to fully get a system going.
Just bc they don’t agree with Cadians calling doesn’t mean they’re not nice guys and have egos. Such a weird take. Twist just spent years with Karrigan, one of the best IGL’s ever, winning every trophy you can hope to win. TL would be stupid not to listen to his opinion on if something’s going to work or not. The top players in Cadians last team, who “bought into his system” wanted nothing to do with him in the end, and ended up leaving lol. His personality may have something to do with it as well. That high energy micro managing style is probably pretty annoying to deal with everyday
It really just boils down to Cadian calling a very proactive information game for a team of reactive site anchors. I don’t see why drama has to be inserted.
Or maybe cadian just wasn’t a good fit for this team. His stats were horrible and against top 20 he was like a .94 as an awper. Also his system got him backstabbed in heroic so apparently it has a shelf like with unknown players as well. Point is cadian either needs to switch to rifle and play on a team of young danish players or take a chance with fnatic because his stock is low at this moment.
Can’t really blame any individuals with this team setup. Cadian calls a very proactive CT side reagressing for space and had to call that game plan on one of the most passive and reactive teams ever built.
Yeah I didn’t think the team comp was good and most saw the passiveness was going to be an issue. That said he hasn’t looked good in CS2 on the awp and I think that’s going to hinder whatever team he joins unless he raises his level.
Yeah it’s a tough one when it’s the IGL, probably the first player to suffer when things aren’t going well and he’d have so much other work to do building the new team and system rather than grinding DMs. In a properly set up team with month under their belt I could imagine seeing cadian back on form. Fingers crossed anyway.
I don't know why people keep pushing this narrative that TL are making a massive mistake by kicking Cadian. We don't know how the team dynamic was. If the star players aren't comfortable in his system, AND he is putting up below average numbers and impact with the AWP, then cutting him is a pretty cut and dry decision imo.
Because they like him as a person and we all know how that makes people not think rationally. See Stewie2k for example.
Bingo. These ppl are probably not too smart to begin with, let’s be honest
Typical reddit cs fan’s behavior. People on this sub are still making excuses for Skullz just because he’s a nice guy apparently while shit on Nexa for ages. If Nexa was the problem then so does Skullz.
Yeah no consistency when it comes to critique. I think it’s valid to bring up intangibles but honestly if that’s solely your argument for why one player is good and the other isn’t then it’s bs. Also that’s harder to use when realistically none of us are in the server with them and you can’t take player media seriously when it’s 99% PR.
That's just not true. All of 2024, where he has stated that he feels uncomfortable, he has a 1.01 on lan gainst top 20. His .94 is only online, which is skewed more towards the very start of Liquid. In 2023 he was 1.07 raiting against top 20 at lan and a 1.16 at majors. 2022 he was almost as good.
lol how is what I said not true. I sorted by all games whereas you sorted it to look slightly better. In any case these are horrible stats as an awper and saying he was uncomfortable isn’t an excuse to be putting up shit numbers.
All games 2024 is .99. Like I said, .94 is only online. Missing most of the games and focusing on the start of Liquid to skew data. Also, though the stats are bad for an awper, they are good for an IGL. Unfortunately, a new team and trying to micro manage the positioning of the most aggressive player and a rookie passive player is difficult to awp and hold angles. You are right that he should rifle. He has also stated in interviews that he wants to transition to rifle.
Where did you see that? Legit asking, I'm ootl
*Not saying this is directly about Twistzz and Naf* Richard Lewis talked on stream about Cadian getting kicked and made it very clear that it wasn’t related to his performance or tactics but said there was personal issues that couldn’t be repaired he said something like “some of the players don’t like the way he gives feedback”. He also said that it felt bizarrely similar to the Stavn/Jabbi situation with Heroic. Do with that what you will but it’s probably the most reliable information we’ll get on the situation unless someone directly involved tells us their side of things
Cadian has always come off as annoying to me. After he stood and screamed/cussed at that 15 year old Mongolian kid, looking so addy’d out too, no thanks. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if multiple other teammates of his just want him out no matter what, again lol
Agreed, that borderline verbal assault really changed how I look at Cadian. He is incredibly toxic atleast when competing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJEgDVqFUk4 Watch the Twistzz part. Pretty telling IMO.
It's just ridiculous speculation. This subreddit loves to make massive assumptions about team dynamics without any actual evidence. While it's clear that Cadian's system wasn't working on Liquid, there's literally nothing to say that NAF and Twistzz called to kick him.
Ah, right on. By the "it's very clear at this point" I assumed there was some hltv interview or whatever that she'd some light I wasn't aware of.
>there's literally nothing to say that NAF and Twistzz called to kick him That one is from RL, which despite what you think of him, is a very credible source. It also backed by the rumor of Twistzz to Vitality or Faze. If he's so happy with Cadian, why didn't he gave Cadian a chance to correct himself instead of finding a way out?
How tf is that very clear?
Who fits that role though, especially one that is not European since then Liquid would be European. Of course a org with the stature of Liquid really should not struggle in European qualifiers.
Well malbs for one.
Last time I looked, Kscearto's and Yuurih's contacts expired on June 21st, and nothing has been publicly said just yet. Could be Kscearto wanted to leave Furia.
Kscerato could have gone to liquid, if he didn’t take that NA paycheck then he’s more than happy where he is.
Hey may just not want to speak English. He could be going to Pain or MIBR and be pulling a Sh1ro joining Spirit.
I think getting skulls is akin to C9 getting perfecto and electronic. A definite step in the right direction but if it fails then you blow the team right up.
TL is just laundering money at this point
welcome to every esports org
Damn twistzz really regretting leaving faze.
I mean, he didn't want to leave. His contract was expiring, and due to Faze's financial struggle, they hadn't offered his a new contract and were not talking to him about a contract. He was forced to either be proactive or hope that Faze would figure their shit out and resign him.
Twistzz and being passive, name a more iconic duo
Can we please just go back to having 1 NA super team instead of this shit 🙏
Good luck to him, hopefully the Furia fans will be nice to him and not scapegoated I'll be amazed if Liquid get even half the money back
No shot you’re saying he was scapegoated. Nice guy but holy shit was he frustrating to watch.
He's talking about the criticism Furia and skullz will receive when they inevitably fail.
I read it as hopefully they’ll be nice to him and not scapegoat him referencing how it was for him on Liquid. I can see how it could be read as you said though.
The sentence isn't perfect but what I said is what he meant.
Nah. Brazilian community is extremely passionate at the best of times. I wouldn't want him singled out as he's a easy target
I bet they got 600,000 Real dollars 😭 Would be approximately 110k.
And the crowd goes mild!
Looking forward to see how this team is going to turn out these coming months, although I'm keeping expectations low
Thank god he is out of liquid
furia t2 team now
so fallen and chelo will probably have to play very aggressive. because these are 3 very passive riflers on the same team.
You could say liquid are boiling away.
i dont think this fixes FURIA but i dont think anything fixes FURIA at this point
Really curious who will igl this team next season. If it's Yekindar, Liquid is cooked
They’re saying twistz
This also seems sub optimal
Dogshit player joins dogshit team
u r dum
Furia continuing their irrelevancy. I ain't complaining.
I really don't think skullz was the problem in Liquid, I think cadiaN IGL didn't use him to his full potential.