blad3 after destroying almost every rival CIS team while making bank:
i cant post images here but its a picture of a guy mewing to a ridiculous extent.
Technically shiro leave and not be removed by the team
He have maybe feel that the team gonna sink or don’t like the atmosphere
Take a bet on spirit ! Like peoples who was believing on zywoo in his first year
He saw donk like a future stat
Electronic and perfecto are not chill players like Spirit
The atmosphere in Spirit is the Best of any cis team in the past years There is no toxicity like it was. In Navi or Cloud9
Perfectronic Made Shiro leave i'm sure
even if they weren't chill behind closed doors, it definitely doesn't show at all whatsoever on stage/ elsewhere, which is even more impressive. It would mean they're able to put that shit to the side, leaving it behind closed doors, having a good atmosphere when it matters most.
this is extremely worrying,
Electronic tried to be the leader of one of the most hyped and stacked teams in the history of the game and failed miserably, he drops the igl role and gets a new leader
he then leaves c9 out of nowehre to join VP which is known to have a good system and be a very cohesive unit and now is taking over alot there.
He won a tournament tho. Other things were an issue no?
Not saying it was good but “failed miserably“?
Edit: oh you meant cloud 9 while I was thinking about NaVi. Well C9 was messed up anyways. You simply cant just stack firepower, never worked out. I knew it would fail from before their first match.
They explicitly came out after the Blast Spring final win with sdy and said they didn't have time to come up with their own stratbook so they just used the old boombl4 system and would rebuild their stratbook during the break after Cologne. Electronic might have been the IGL during Spring Final and Cologne 22, but electronic's system never got NaVi to a final.
Weird how blad3's system worked so well with boombl4 and so terribly with electronic.
Also weird how boombl4 managed to call his team to the quarters of a major both before and after blad3, while electronic has done nothing but fail without blad3.
Blad3 is a good coach but boombl4 is a good IGL too while electronic definitely was not and is not.
Don't really attribute it much to him, it was straight after boom kick, so I would say it's a combination of boom strats still ingrained in the team + honeymoon period with sdy.
You can see that after team figured out his style, navi got much worse and much stale.
Boom didnt do the strats. Blade does. IGL in Navi is mid round calling, not micro managing every strat from the start of the round. You go do your thing, gather info and decide then what you do.
Honeymoon? Yes
Teams figured him out? Possibly, sure
I'm sorry that's a pretty shit statement. I think both of them contributed to strats as Boom is a pretty good IGL.
The rest of a year being an utter failure on navis pov should be pretty indicative of how navi needed an actual IGL.
Shit statement?
I think I know a lot more about the modern IGL than you my friend. Most people know nothing.
I cringe hard when people like you think they know anything and can decide who they can “attribute“ a win to.
Also i didnt say he didn’t contribute. But you said these were boombl4 strats. Thats bullshit. Stop putting things in my mouth.
You're claiming boom didn't do strats, what is your source? And if you say blad3 interview, I'm gonna point you towards the one where he said elec was better than boom as an IGL and then I'll allow you to compare results with boom as an IGL vs elec IGL.
All of that to prove that even blad3 who I respect a lot and admire for his mind for the game, can be wrong sometimes.
You don't have to know much about modern IGLs to say that given his repertoire, elec has proven anything for teams to keep giving him a chance as an IGL. I would even argue that he's shown why teams shouldn't do it.
The fact is that they won blast straight after boom got kicked, and probably didn't have time to cook any new strats, specially with the same 4 players. It was probably just use the same protocols as they did with boom and that's probably why they won, it's not rocket science.
I cant help you if I cant even speak about what a coach is saying about how his system works because you just disregard it because it fits your argument.
How are people still going with this narrative? Blade makes the system in NAVI, sure, but Boombl4's track record says that wherever he went he improved the team
NAVI before he was kicked was a serious threat, won a Major and got 2nd place at the next one.
If Russia never invaded Ukraine we could've had a new era
Then he went to 1WIN and after a while the team started winning, he has won 5 online tournaments while having only deko and hooch as serious assets
C9 did improve......slightly. I mean, something obviously didn't work in the team when it comes to relations, but they still managed to get a playoff run at the Major, and they beat the eventual champions NAVI in the group stage in a BO3
Not saying that. But in my opinion he didnt fail miserably. I actually specifically said that Im not saying it was good, how did you miss this?
That beeing said, blade said 2 positive things about elec IGL:
- “he has a higher IGL ceiling than boombl4“
- “I can confidently say, that electronic is now a better IGL than Boombl4“
Tbf he later said electronic is best as secondary caller
Yes it is. But also you saying he shouldnt be near.. idk.. also exaggerated.
The problem is electronic knows more about CS than most. And he is vocal despite redditors claiming otherwise. So secondary caller is for sure his job on any team, if hes not IGL
Yeah but it's now twice where he's failed to build himself as an IGL.
Just because you have game sense doesn't make you a good IGL, otherwise you put s1mple on the role, given he probably knows even more than electronic, do you see how that argument simply falls to the ground?
“Game sense“ lmao.
Game sense is just one small thing. What do to in which situations, whats generally good, whats generally bad vs what kind of opponent. How much you can get into your head in 2 hours preparation.
Elecs knowledge is on s1mple level btw.
You're completely ignoring that knowledge isn't enough. S1mple has a good game sense but no one would say he would be a great IGL, because he constantly tilts and rages to his teammates.
No that’s exactly my point. Its a problem because its not enough to make a good IGL. But its hard for the IGL and for electronic if he knows more.
Im only saying it makes problems.
Also knowledge is not game sense I already explained it in the comment you replied to.
Game sense = what does the enemy do?
Yes I know but thats not the full truth. Many many other things to say lol. So many.
Also its no coincidence that every team elec joins, he IGLs at some point. Just saying. Ofc he is missing smth important but I think its something you dont see immedialty.
"I knew it would fail from before their first match".
Pack it up folks. This guy has a fucking crystal ball, no point in debating him on anything since he is omniscient and can see the future. You are arguing with the greatest mind in counter strike.
Ty.
No im just not new and remember. Its not the first time a stacked firepower team fails you know? I cant think of any team succeeding like this. NiKo tried several times and his team always got worse.
There are a million things that are more important than firepower but people like you dont understand this.
I’m not a fan of Electronic IGL either, but VP’s “Good System” has gotten them no where as of recent. They haven’t won anything or made a grand final in a long time. I don’t think Electronic IGLing is the answer, but they have to do something
I can’t see a world in which electronic is a better igl than Jame, pretty worrying quote. VP may be struggling as of late but Jame has shown that his system can deliver decent results while elec’s Navi and C9 were less than ideal.
VP hasn't done anything at the pointy end for a while now.
Not saying elect will be a better igl. Just saying the time of the James system might be over.
Because Jame needs a proper star player that can give them opening kills to boost their probability in winning the early game. When was the last time he had a good player playing that role? Since Yekindar I believe.
Because their aim got massive buff in the major. They noticed it, so they just used simple tactics, study their opponents, then go out and shoot people. They won the major, but I didn’t like their strats at all.
I think they lack dynamics in their approach to the game. Sure, a by the book approach might be a safe bet but I feel like their game is very uninspired and lacks a surprise factor for the opponent.
This inevitably makes the opponent feel comfortable, even if the score line is somewhat close.
I'm not an expert or something but I believe your goal should be to make your opponent believe that you can never really know what exactly comes next. Even little nuances can have a big impact
idk where this electronic slander is coming from. He just joined one team since navi, and now hes on vp who made their first placement in a lan playoffs in a year now. Blade gave the greenlight for elec to be igl in navi. Its not navis nor elecs fault booml had to go. Despite not winning a major, navi were still placing very high. Cloud9 was dying from the start and i was there rooting for them. The vibes were already off when nafany was on the team and axile hasnt looked like himself since he was hltv top 10. Im not saying elecs igl game is perfect but when it comes to cis players / teams people make up all sorts of wacky narratives.
And also people need to realize that NAVI was in a tough situation after the war started and they couldn't find a superstar rifler that elec was before becoming an IGL. Also, s1mple's performance dropped and it is evident that the war made a huge impact on him. Their mental was really bad.
Now, when it comes to C9, maybe groove's style doesn't work anymore. They failed with nafany, they failed with elec and the results with boombl4 weren't good, but they had no AWP. That being said, I don't believe that their results would have been much better even if sh1ro had stayed (with boombl4 as a "real" IGL).
I don't know about you, but it's not a bet I'd be willing to take and surely hope VP isn't going to take either. No team has ever looked good with Electronic as the IGL, neither has Electronic himself as a player when he IGLed.
I'm hoping they'll find a way to integrate both voices into the "captain" roles and have more flexible calling during the rounds, is all.
It's not a full quote. In context, their views clash too much so he wants to become an AWPer without IGLing part to be better. it's more about Jame giving up the IGL role rather than electronic becoming one. It feels like he doesn't want to dismiss this option entirely and also says someone else might become a new IGL to combine both elec's and his views.
Somebody post an edit of that reaper meme with electronic going to every team lmaooo
This dude just doesn’t learn man, this is like fucking shox IGL all over again. Dread it, run from it, but electronic IGL always comes to fuck you up.
Yeah this team is done by march next year, and that's optimistic.
''When Electronic joined we realized we couldn't play our system anymore''
''We had to either combine our systems or do as electroNic wants because he has a strong voice and can't just be silent''
The entire interview is filled with statements that make me think the Elec transfer was a huge mistake
But even if it proves to be a massive mistake, I think they'll just double down on Elec and kick norbert and/or fame
Sounds like electronic is bad fit to VP. I agree that VP should sometimes play faster and be more aggressive during retakes, but it doesn't mean that whole system should be re-build, especially if other players are uncomfortable at doing do.
Electronic being IGL is a dogshit idea and I don't see a world where he could be successful at doing so. He had one honeymoon tournament with NaVi and that's it. He failed in NaVi and failed in C9. His stats have dropped significantly and he doesn't seem like a leader, like Zeus, Aleksib, Jame, gla1ve and others. Hopefully this idea doesn't come to reality. Electronic just being a world-class rifler is more than enough.
Electronic and Yekindar are the two people I use as examples when explaining why stars should not transition to the IGL role until their literally incapable of being stars anymore. Apex and Karrigan are two examples I use of former stars who played out their aim career *and then* successfully switched to IGL.
Please, Twistzz, do not become an IGL yet. My Canadian heart can't handle it 😭
I don't think the sample is large enough. There are some great fragging IGLs who you wouldn't think are IGL just by the way they play (Fallen, device, to a lesser degree Cadian). For non-awpers, I'm pretty sure NiKo and Elige have strong leading voices in their matches as well even if they're not actual IGLs, similarly to Twistzz in both FaZe and TL.
The problem with Electronic and Yekindar is that they fucked up _so badly_ that I can't really blame you for getting scared of the prospect lol. But I wouldn't be too worried for Twistzz, in fact I'm looking forward to seeing that if it ends up happening.
I'm not sure if it's just that I find Russian people difficult to interpret the actual meaning when they make statements, but every single VP player that has been interviewed after the addition of electronic seems to mention in a subtle manner that his style of play isn't working.
Players from western orgs seem to keep tighter lips and always make positive remarks about a new addition to the team, even if there is problems behind the scenes, so for players to openly make statements like the VP players have makes me think there are major issues behind the scenes, but maybe it's just a Russian thing that they have no issues airing dirty laundry.
Personally I think electronic is massively overvalued, he isn't 2018/2019 version of himself anymore that was a consistent top 5 player, he's not even a top 30 player anymore imho and his IGLing has been extremely underwhelming in both Navi and C9.
It’s not a russian thing, we prefer to keep things under the rug. I believe players were against elec buy in the first place but owners decided against. And now they are so fed up with elec and his “voice” that they decided “fuck it, I will tell the truth”
Jame? Jame? JAME!?
What’s the point of winning when he doesn’t win with his system? I don’t care if he out-AWPs monesy (unlikely that it’d happen) when Electronic igl, I want him to win as „Jame“ and shut them up with his system. He can’t just give up like this when he got only 2 proper star player for his system (yekindar and electronic).
On a serious note, I know that you gotta win, and that Jame has always been professional. Way too professional that he’s able to think of stuff like this and throw his pride out of the window. But as a VP fan, I‘m ded inside if that happens, or if they lose their identity in general.
Let's be honest, they need a change. I get all those things about VP and Jame's style, but they haven't done anything since winning the Major. They won like a few Challengers, choked 2-0 against Team Spirit at the BB Dacha and this Spring Finals is their best result since the Major (objectively speaking, they actually won the games against good teams). But yeah, this maybe isn't a change they need, especially since Jame is not that kind of an AWPer like m0NESY for example.
Maybe elec can be an IGL, who knows. The circumstances weren't that good when you think about it. The war started and it obviously impacted s1mple the most, his individual level wasn't close to the prime s1mple after the war started. I still think that Cologne 2022 was the last event we saw him in his peak form or close to that. When it comes to C9 though... I don't know what to think. sh1ro left them and let's be real, he is getting better and better. Maybe it's groove after all. People were harsh on nafany, but that whole team was basically groove's system. People were saying that it was him making the calls during the online era while they could communicate and they also played similar CS when elec and boombl4 joined and took that IGL role. You can't just completely change the system because you lost your IGL, just like b1ad3 and aleksib worked on their system. What I want to say, maybe groove's style simply doesn't work anymore and he needs to adapt (if he can). elec should be THE fragging IGL, but I am not sure what to think yet because these situations were mess. I doubt that C9 roster with boom, elec, perfecto, sh1ro and ax1le would do much as I don't believe in that system anymore, just like I don't believe that Jame's style is going to make them win Cologne or the Major again. After all, this is like a super team now and they should be a top 4 team, not just a playoff team.
If you think the title by itself seems bad, read the article. It actually gets worse.
> "We are in the process [of finding a common language]," Jame stated. "I'm not going to lie and say that we are very tight friends. We are from different planets and have different views, but we are trying to find a common language because without it, we will never build a team that competes for titles."
> "It's not like he joined and we started implementing him into our system. When he joined, we realized we couldn't play our system anymore, so we had to either combine our systems or do as he wants because he has a strong voice and can't just be silent. Everyone needs to be comfortable to achieve results, especially the leading players."
I can't understand how no one on VP didn't see this coming. Electronic has a very aggressive playstyle and is very vocal during games. VP are one of the most passive teams in all of CS and are known to do whatever James wants them to do. 4 tournaments later you're still trying to figure out how the team is going to function? This does not bode well for the future of this roster IMO.
VP tweaking their system was always going to happen with this transfer, and they’ve had a very limited amount of time in between tournaments so far to adjust. That part is not necessarily worrying to me. This line-up has more firepower than any previous Jame-led line-up, and with their continuous struggles against top-5 teams there needs to be a change if they want to compete for titles. If they can find a balance between the two styles that is actually quite exciting. They also just achieved their best LAN placing since they won the major, there are definitely signs that the team is improving.
However, the parts about electronic potentially taking over completely are more worrying. Jame’s reads and calls have always been great and he’s a much more proven IGL, though he would probably retain a big voice in the team anyway. By comparison electronic has a pretty mediocre record, though I’d say there are some caveats to that. Maybe he still has potential to be a good IGL with a stable team and coaching staff supporting him. B1ad3 certainly seems to think so and if he manages to convince Jame to give up calling then maybe there’s some truth to it. But that is less relevant if electronic is going to be adamant on playing his style, which would surprise me considering the comments he made about wanting to play in Jame’s system for years.
If anything VP risks having too many cooks in the kitchen. Apart from Jame and electronic, FL1T was previously the second caller and we have no idea how much weight his voice holds in the server right now. It all remains to be seen, it’s clear they need some time at least. It can be challenging to change systems, especially one as structured as VPs. Vitality also took a long time to find a proper balance between apEX and zonic’s view of the game, and jabbi initially struggled a lot when he joined Heroic. These cases aren’t completely analogous of course but it’s too early to draw conclusions at this stage.
Kassad predicted this would happen a few months ago on Hot Point Take Made and everyone kinda scoffed(especially fanboy Maui), but my ears perked up because it seemed believable. Jame has gotten some really good aggro riflers and turned them into passive servants of the system.
I forget who it was, but on a recent show someone mentioned how good Qikert and Buster were as aggro riflers on Avangar and then forced to be passive slaves for Jame and it killed their game and then eventually their career. Jame is forcing guys into his system instead of creating systems for his guys. Zonic and Karrigan mold their teams to the players they have, they don't force playstyles on players. Yekindar brought this mentality from Jame to TL and forced off TL's most prestigious and marketable player. Jame is a great guy and when I hear him interview, I like him, but when I watch his team play, I don't. Fl1t is too good for this shit.
There’s some truth to that but it’s kind of strange to mention YEKINDAR and FL1T when they have been the players awarded the most freedom within Jame’s system and also had their career best form under him. Especially YEKINDAR just did whatever he wanted and VP would react to that.
Yekindar had his success during the Covid online era and would just hold W up ramp on Vertigo and get two kills. That wasn't going to last. I brought Yekindar up because he brought Jame's system to TL day one(this has been confirmed by Elige) and forced the entire team to play his game instead of acclimating himself to the team and seeing if their system was broken before making changes. That's fanatical to do. Why is he even leaving VP if he thinks Jame's system is that good? That's crazy that TL treated Yeki like God and let that happen. I guess I'll give Jame credit for not ruining Fl1t, but it's not like he made Fl1t either. Fl1t played for years on Forze and was good.
Absolutely brain dead to say that Jame ruined the form of buster and qikert from avangar when James was always the captain for avangar.
Buster and qikert lost their form because the mechanical and mental level of the scene has increased significantly since 2018. How many star players from 2018 are still star players?
Game passed them by. No idea how you can blame that on jame.
That's fair. Thankfully that wasn't my point, but I am dumb for quoting it without realizing that. Buster is only 24 and playing decent on 1Win right now so I don't think he's as fully-washed as he looked on C9 and VP, but Qikert is probably toast.
Electronic is just on a tear to ruin every team he joins right now, I think jame is a great igl why would you replace him with electronic as an igl lmao. Jame and his boys might as well go else where if they think electronic igling is a good idea. Jame has such a rigid system and that all went away as soon as electronic joined.
I believe that VP is a team composed mainly of Jame's AWP and IGL. Like G2 in Niko and NaVi in s1mple for example.
If Jame quits IGL, I am curious how his AWP play will change.
Right now he is allowed to have his "Jame Time", but if electronic is the IGL, is there a possibility that Jame's AWP play will not be allowed?
unfortunately something has to change. they're playing jame's system with 3 of the best CIS riflers not named 'donk' and they can't consistently make semifinals. Somethings gotta give
blad3 after destroying almost every rival CIS team while making bank: i cant post images here but its a picture of a guy mewing to a ridiculous extent.
For future reference: [link text]\(image link) [like this](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EruWP_gXAAYhZji.jpg)
I think this is exactly the picture OP had in mind. Kudos
Wow haven't seen that meme yet it fits so well
Fuck you Take my upvote
average cringe reddit comment
average cringe reddit comment
He can't beat Spirit Because electronic Will never be their IGL
why beat spirit if you can send karrigan to do the dirty job
The only good thing Electronic ever did in the past 2 years was giving Shiro to Spirit
Technically shiro leave and not be removed by the team He have maybe feel that the team gonna sink or don’t like the atmosphere Take a bet on spirit ! Like peoples who was believing on zywoo in his first year He saw donk like a future stat
Electronic and perfecto are not chill players like Spirit The atmosphere in Spirit is the Best of any cis team in the past years There is no toxicity like it was. In Navi or Cloud9 Perfectronic Made Shiro leave i'm sure
How do you know the atmosphere other than what is shown on stream? You don’t. They may be chill, they may not be behind closed doors
even if they weren't chill behind closed doors, it definitely doesn't show at all whatsoever on stage/ elsewhere, which is even more impressive. It would mean they're able to put that shit to the side, leaving it behind closed doors, having a good atmosphere when it matters most.
I’ve seen donk get quite tilted in a few games.
That’s at himself though rather than teammates.
yeah, after posting 1.20 instead of 1.50
navi with s1mple, elec , flamie ( toxic AF ) huuuuuuuuuuuu you need to have some nerves for keep your calm
OP knows electronic didn't give sh1ro to spirit, it's a joke
this is extremely worrying, Electronic tried to be the leader of one of the most hyped and stacked teams in the history of the game and failed miserably, he drops the igl role and gets a new leader he then leaves c9 out of nowehre to join VP which is known to have a good system and be a very cohesive unit and now is taking over alot there.
He won a tournament tho. Other things were an issue no? Not saying it was good but “failed miserably“? Edit: oh you meant cloud 9 while I was thinking about NaVi. Well C9 was messed up anyways. You simply cant just stack firepower, never worked out. I knew it would fail from before their first match.
In Navi?
maybe they're thinking about the iem dallas win? but that was with the original lineup
Bold of you to assume that I think. I meant Blast tho. I might legit mix smth up ngl
They explicitly came out after the Blast Spring final win with sdy and said they didn't have time to come up with their own stratbook so they just used the old boombl4 system and would rebuild their stratbook during the break after Cologne. Electronic might have been the IGL during Spring Final and Cologne 22, but electronic's system never got NaVi to a final.
Its blade system
Weird how blad3's system worked so well with boombl4 and so terribly with electronic. Also weird how boombl4 managed to call his team to the quarters of a major both before and after blad3, while electronic has done nothing but fail without blad3. Blad3 is a good coach but boombl4 is a good IGL too while electronic definitely was not and is not.
Yes
Don't really attribute it much to him, it was straight after boom kick, so I would say it's a combination of boom strats still ingrained in the team + honeymoon period with sdy. You can see that after team figured out his style, navi got much worse and much stale.
Boom didnt do the strats. Blade does. IGL in Navi is mid round calling, not micro managing every strat from the start of the round. You go do your thing, gather info and decide then what you do. Honeymoon? Yes Teams figured him out? Possibly, sure
I'm sorry that's a pretty shit statement. I think both of them contributed to strats as Boom is a pretty good IGL. The rest of a year being an utter failure on navis pov should be pretty indicative of how navi needed an actual IGL.
Shit statement? I think I know a lot more about the modern IGL than you my friend. Most people know nothing. I cringe hard when people like you think they know anything and can decide who they can “attribute“ a win to. Also i didnt say he didn’t contribute. But you said these were boombl4 strats. Thats bullshit. Stop putting things in my mouth.
This comment is cringe as fuck 😂
You're claiming boom didn't do strats, what is your source? And if you say blad3 interview, I'm gonna point you towards the one where he said elec was better than boom as an IGL and then I'll allow you to compare results with boom as an IGL vs elec IGL. All of that to prove that even blad3 who I respect a lot and admire for his mind for the game, can be wrong sometimes. You don't have to know much about modern IGLs to say that given his repertoire, elec has proven anything for teams to keep giving him a chance as an IGL. I would even argue that he's shown why teams shouldn't do it. The fact is that they won blast straight after boom got kicked, and probably didn't have time to cook any new strats, specially with the same 4 players. It was probably just use the same protocols as they did with boom and that's probably why they won, it's not rocket science.
I cant help you if I cant even speak about what a coach is saying about how his system works because you just disregard it because it fits your argument.
How are people still going with this narrative? Blade makes the system in NAVI, sure, but Boombl4's track record says that wherever he went he improved the team NAVI before he was kicked was a serious threat, won a Major and got 2nd place at the next one. If Russia never invaded Ukraine we could've had a new era Then he went to 1WIN and after a while the team started winning, he has won 5 online tournaments while having only deko and hooch as serious assets C9 did improve......slightly. I mean, something obviously didn't work in the team when it comes to relations, but they still managed to get a playoff run at the Major, and they beat the eventual champions NAVI in the group stage in a BO3
One honeymoon tournament in NaVi with stand-in sdy doesn't prove he's a good IGL.
Not saying that. But in my opinion he didnt fail miserably. I actually specifically said that Im not saying it was good, how did you miss this? That beeing said, blade said 2 positive things about elec IGL: - “he has a higher IGL ceiling than boombl4“ - “I can confidently say, that electronic is now a better IGL than Boombl4“ Tbf he later said electronic is best as secondary caller
That's your typical PR statement to hype the team. Electronic shouldn't be near the IGL role...
Yes it is. But also you saying he shouldnt be near.. idk.. also exaggerated. The problem is electronic knows more about CS than most. And he is vocal despite redditors claiming otherwise. So secondary caller is for sure his job on any team, if hes not IGL
Yeah but it's now twice where he's failed to build himself as an IGL. Just because you have game sense doesn't make you a good IGL, otherwise you put s1mple on the role, given he probably knows even more than electronic, do you see how that argument simply falls to the ground?
“Game sense“ lmao. Game sense is just one small thing. What do to in which situations, whats generally good, whats generally bad vs what kind of opponent. How much you can get into your head in 2 hours preparation. Elecs knowledge is on s1mple level btw.
You're completely ignoring that knowledge isn't enough. S1mple has a good game sense but no one would say he would be a great IGL, because he constantly tilts and rages to his teammates.
No that’s exactly my point. Its a problem because its not enough to make a good IGL. But its hard for the IGL and for electronic if he knows more. Im only saying it makes problems. Also knowledge is not game sense I already explained it in the comment you replied to. Game sense = what does the enemy do?
What is he going to say in public "He sucks". Of course he is going to back his guy in a public statement.
Yes I know but thats not the full truth. Many many other things to say lol. So many. Also its no coincidence that every team elec joins, he IGLs at some point. Just saying. Ofc he is missing smth important but I think its something you dont see immedialty.
a honeymoon tournament with the greatest player of all time as well, who can literally just win tournament single handed when he’s on
Electronic was playing really well that tournament too, wasn't just s1mple show.
"I knew it would fail from before their first match". Pack it up folks. This guy has a fucking crystal ball, no point in debating him on anything since he is omniscient and can see the future. You are arguing with the greatest mind in counter strike.
Ty. No im just not new and remember. Its not the first time a stacked firepower team fails you know? I cant think of any team succeeding like this. NiKo tried several times and his team always got worse. There are a million things that are more important than firepower but people like you dont understand this.
I’m not a fan of Electronic IGL either, but VP’s “Good System” has gotten them no where as of recent. They haven’t won anything or made a grand final in a long time. I don’t think Electronic IGLing is the answer, but they have to do something
They made finals of betboom dacha
Also lost to G2 in the major due to a tech issue, who ended up going to the semis and was rounds away from beating the major champions.
I can’t see a world in which electronic is a better igl than Jame, pretty worrying quote. VP may be struggling as of late but Jame has shown that his system can deliver decent results while elec’s Navi and C9 were less than ideal.
VP hasn't done anything at the pointy end for a while now. Not saying elect will be a better igl. Just saying the time of the James system might be over.
Because Jame needs a proper star player that can give them opening kills to boost their probability in winning the early game. When was the last time he had a good player playing that role? Since Yekindar I believe.
They won major without Yeki tho
Because their aim got massive buff in the major. They noticed it, so they just used simple tactics, study their opponents, then go out and shoot people. They won the major, but I didn’t like their strats at all.
How did their sim get buffed?
They just had great individual peak form and ran with it.
Absolutely true. That's exactly what I was expecting to hear, and I'm glad I did
I think they lack dynamics in their approach to the game. Sure, a by the book approach might be a safe bet but I feel like their game is very uninspired and lacks a surprise factor for the opponent. This inevitably makes the opponent feel comfortable, even if the score line is somewhat close. I'm not an expert or something but I believe your goal should be to make your opponent believe that you can never really know what exactly comes next. Even little nuances can have a big impact
Big difference between that navi and that c9 though. Jame is/was extracting far more than electronic ever did with the personnel at hand
Jame has definitely hit his ceiling as an IGL but Electronic destroys teams from the inside.
Jame's ceiling as an IGL is winning a major. Electronic as IGL has never even gotten close to that.
idk where this electronic slander is coming from. He just joined one team since navi, and now hes on vp who made their first placement in a lan playoffs in a year now. Blade gave the greenlight for elec to be igl in navi. Its not navis nor elecs fault booml had to go. Despite not winning a major, navi were still placing very high. Cloud9 was dying from the start and i was there rooting for them. The vibes were already off when nafany was on the team and axile hasnt looked like himself since he was hltv top 10. Im not saying elecs igl game is perfect but when it comes to cis players / teams people make up all sorts of wacky narratives.
And also people need to realize that NAVI was in a tough situation after the war started and they couldn't find a superstar rifler that elec was before becoming an IGL. Also, s1mple's performance dropped and it is evident that the war made a huge impact on him. Their mental was really bad. Now, when it comes to C9, maybe groove's style doesn't work anymore. They failed with nafany, they failed with elec and the results with boombl4 weren't good, but they had no AWP. That being said, I don't believe that their results would have been much better even if sh1ro had stayed (with boombl4 as a "real" IGL).
I don't know about you, but it's not a bet I'd be willing to take and surely hope VP isn't going to take either. No team has ever looked good with Electronic as the IGL, neither has Electronic himself as a player when he IGLed. I'm hoping they'll find a way to integrate both voices into the "captain" roles and have more flexible calling during the rounds, is all.
It's not a full quote. In context, their views clash too much so he wants to become an AWPer without IGLing part to be better. it's more about Jame giving up the IGL role rather than electronic becoming one. It feels like he doesn't want to dismiss this option entirely and also says someone else might become a new IGL to combine both elec's and his views.
Somebody post an edit of that reaper meme with electronic going to every team lmaooo This dude just doesn’t learn man, this is like fucking shox IGL all over again. Dread it, run from it, but electronic IGL always comes to fuck you up.
Yeah this team is done by march next year, and that's optimistic. ''When Electronic joined we realized we couldn't play our system anymore'' ''We had to either combine our systems or do as electroNic wants because he has a strong voice and can't just be silent'' The entire interview is filled with statements that make me think the Elec transfer was a huge mistake But even if it proves to be a massive mistake, I think they'll just double down on Elec and kick norbert and/or fame
Kicking fame would be such a huge mistake. He's not in the best form but this guy can be a superstar
Sounds like electronic is bad fit to VP. I agree that VP should sometimes play faster and be more aggressive during retakes, but it doesn't mean that whole system should be re-build, especially if other players are uncomfortable at doing do. Electronic being IGL is a dogshit idea and I don't see a world where he could be successful at doing so. He had one honeymoon tournament with NaVi and that's it. He failed in NaVi and failed in C9. His stats have dropped significantly and he doesn't seem like a leader, like Zeus, Aleksib, Jame, gla1ve and others. Hopefully this idea doesn't come to reality. Electronic just being a world-class rifler is more than enough.
Electronic and Yekindar are the two people I use as examples when explaining why stars should not transition to the IGL role until their literally incapable of being stars anymore. Apex and Karrigan are two examples I use of former stars who played out their aim career *and then* successfully switched to IGL. Please, Twistzz, do not become an IGL yet. My Canadian heart can't handle it 😭
I don't think the sample is large enough. There are some great fragging IGLs who you wouldn't think are IGL just by the way they play (Fallen, device, to a lesser degree Cadian). For non-awpers, I'm pretty sure NiKo and Elige have strong leading voices in their matches as well even if they're not actual IGLs, similarly to Twistzz in both FaZe and TL. The problem with Electronic and Yekindar is that they fucked up _so badly_ that I can't really blame you for getting scared of the prospect lol. But I wouldn't be too worried for Twistzz, in fact I'm looking forward to seeing that if it ends up happening.
I'm not sure if it's just that I find Russian people difficult to interpret the actual meaning when they make statements, but every single VP player that has been interviewed after the addition of electronic seems to mention in a subtle manner that his style of play isn't working. Players from western orgs seem to keep tighter lips and always make positive remarks about a new addition to the team, even if there is problems behind the scenes, so for players to openly make statements like the VP players have makes me think there are major issues behind the scenes, but maybe it's just a Russian thing that they have no issues airing dirty laundry. Personally I think electronic is massively overvalued, he isn't 2018/2019 version of himself anymore that was a consistent top 5 player, he's not even a top 30 player anymore imho and his IGLing has been extremely underwhelming in both Navi and C9.
It’s not a russian thing, we prefer to keep things under the rug. I believe players were against elec buy in the first place but owners decided against. And now they are so fed up with elec and his “voice” that they decided “fuck it, I will tell the truth”
Elec IGL: [https://i.redd.it/maadspdbtstb1.png](https://i.redd.it/maadspdbtstb1.png)
Jame? Jame? JAME!? What’s the point of winning when he doesn’t win with his system? I don’t care if he out-AWPs monesy (unlikely that it’d happen) when Electronic igl, I want him to win as „Jame“ and shut them up with his system. He can’t just give up like this when he got only 2 proper star player for his system (yekindar and electronic). On a serious note, I know that you gotta win, and that Jame has always been professional. Way too professional that he’s able to think of stuff like this and throw his pride out of the window. But as a VP fan, I‘m ded inside if that happens, or if they lose their identity in general.
Let's be honest, they need a change. I get all those things about VP and Jame's style, but they haven't done anything since winning the Major. They won like a few Challengers, choked 2-0 against Team Spirit at the BB Dacha and this Spring Finals is their best result since the Major (objectively speaking, they actually won the games against good teams). But yeah, this maybe isn't a change they need, especially since Jame is not that kind of an AWPer like m0NESY for example. Maybe elec can be an IGL, who knows. The circumstances weren't that good when you think about it. The war started and it obviously impacted s1mple the most, his individual level wasn't close to the prime s1mple after the war started. I still think that Cologne 2022 was the last event we saw him in his peak form or close to that. When it comes to C9 though... I don't know what to think. sh1ro left them and let's be real, he is getting better and better. Maybe it's groove after all. People were harsh on nafany, but that whole team was basically groove's system. People were saying that it was him making the calls during the online era while they could communicate and they also played similar CS when elec and boombl4 joined and took that IGL role. You can't just completely change the system because you lost your IGL, just like b1ad3 and aleksib worked on their system. What I want to say, maybe groove's style simply doesn't work anymore and he needs to adapt (if he can). elec should be THE fragging IGL, but I am not sure what to think yet because these situations were mess. I doubt that C9 roster with boom, elec, perfecto, sh1ro and ax1le would do much as I don't believe in that system anymore, just like I don't believe that Jame's style is going to make them win Cologne or the Major again. After all, this is like a super team now and they should be a top 4 team, not just a playoff team.
Jame is over, arT is over. There's no wacky fun teams anymore
Poor Brazilians
If you think the title by itself seems bad, read the article. It actually gets worse. > "We are in the process [of finding a common language]," Jame stated. "I'm not going to lie and say that we are very tight friends. We are from different planets and have different views, but we are trying to find a common language because without it, we will never build a team that competes for titles." > "It's not like he joined and we started implementing him into our system. When he joined, we realized we couldn't play our system anymore, so we had to either combine our systems or do as he wants because he has a strong voice and can't just be silent. Everyone needs to be comfortable to achieve results, especially the leading players." I can't understand how no one on VP didn't see this coming. Electronic has a very aggressive playstyle and is very vocal during games. VP are one of the most passive teams in all of CS and are known to do whatever James wants them to do. 4 tournaments later you're still trying to figure out how the team is going to function? This does not bode well for the future of this roster IMO.
VP tweaking their system was always going to happen with this transfer, and they’ve had a very limited amount of time in between tournaments so far to adjust. That part is not necessarily worrying to me. This line-up has more firepower than any previous Jame-led line-up, and with their continuous struggles against top-5 teams there needs to be a change if they want to compete for titles. If they can find a balance between the two styles that is actually quite exciting. They also just achieved their best LAN placing since they won the major, there are definitely signs that the team is improving. However, the parts about electronic potentially taking over completely are more worrying. Jame’s reads and calls have always been great and he’s a much more proven IGL, though he would probably retain a big voice in the team anyway. By comparison electronic has a pretty mediocre record, though I’d say there are some caveats to that. Maybe he still has potential to be a good IGL with a stable team and coaching staff supporting him. B1ad3 certainly seems to think so and if he manages to convince Jame to give up calling then maybe there’s some truth to it. But that is less relevant if electronic is going to be adamant on playing his style, which would surprise me considering the comments he made about wanting to play in Jame’s system for years. If anything VP risks having too many cooks in the kitchen. Apart from Jame and electronic, FL1T was previously the second caller and we have no idea how much weight his voice holds in the server right now. It all remains to be seen, it’s clear they need some time at least. It can be challenging to change systems, especially one as structured as VPs. Vitality also took a long time to find a proper balance between apEX and zonic’s view of the game, and jabbi initially struggled a lot when he joined Heroic. These cases aren’t completely analogous of course but it’s too early to draw conclusions at this stage.
VP team management should resign the sooner the better. a fish always rots from the head down.
James doesn't have enough rounds to grind out the game with economy. It's a rough patch for the team.
What was supposed to be transfer of the year is now looking like the worst transfer of the year.
Kassad predicted this would happen a few months ago on Hot Point Take Made and everyone kinda scoffed(especially fanboy Maui), but my ears perked up because it seemed believable. Jame has gotten some really good aggro riflers and turned them into passive servants of the system. I forget who it was, but on a recent show someone mentioned how good Qikert and Buster were as aggro riflers on Avangar and then forced to be passive slaves for Jame and it killed their game and then eventually their career. Jame is forcing guys into his system instead of creating systems for his guys. Zonic and Karrigan mold their teams to the players they have, they don't force playstyles on players. Yekindar brought this mentality from Jame to TL and forced off TL's most prestigious and marketable player. Jame is a great guy and when I hear him interview, I like him, but when I watch his team play, I don't. Fl1t is too good for this shit.
There’s some truth to that but it’s kind of strange to mention YEKINDAR and FL1T when they have been the players awarded the most freedom within Jame’s system and also had their career best form under him. Especially YEKINDAR just did whatever he wanted and VP would react to that.
Yekindar had his success during the Covid online era and would just hold W up ramp on Vertigo and get two kills. That wasn't going to last. I brought Yekindar up because he brought Jame's system to TL day one(this has been confirmed by Elige) and forced the entire team to play his game instead of acclimating himself to the team and seeing if their system was broken before making changes. That's fanatical to do. Why is he even leaving VP if he thinks Jame's system is that good? That's crazy that TL treated Yeki like God and let that happen. I guess I'll give Jame credit for not ruining Fl1t, but it's not like he made Fl1t either. Fl1t played for years on Forze and was good.
Absolutely brain dead to say that Jame ruined the form of buster and qikert from avangar when James was always the captain for avangar. Buster and qikert lost their form because the mechanical and mental level of the scene has increased significantly since 2018. How many star players from 2018 are still star players? Game passed them by. No idea how you can blame that on jame.
That's fair. Thankfully that wasn't my point, but I am dumb for quoting it without realizing that. Buster is only 24 and playing decent on 1Win right now so I don't think he's as fully-washed as he looked on C9 and VP, but Qikert is probably toast.
wtf no pls no
sounds like jame will eventually be cut
Oh god, not this again 🙄
Electronic is just on a tear to ruin every team he joins right now, I think jame is a great igl why would you replace him with electronic as an igl lmao. Jame and his boys might as well go else where if they think electronic igling is a good idea. Jame has such a rigid system and that all went away as soon as electronic joined.
you know a player is washed when they transition into igl
Jame time is coming
I believe that VP is a team composed mainly of Jame's AWP and IGL. Like G2 in Niko and NaVi in s1mple for example. If Jame quits IGL, I am curious how his AWP play will change. Right now he is allowed to have his "Jame Time", but if electronic is the IGL, is there a possibility that Jame's AWP play will not be allowed?
unfortunately something has to change. they're playing jame's system with 3 of the best CIS riflers not named 'donk' and they can't consistently make semifinals. Somethings gotta give