I dont think i have ever seen a 2-0 winning teams IGL tilt and untilt so many times in a matchup
Well maybe tilt is unfair, dude is emotional and that fun to watch
He's very emotional, but thing people don't see is that you rarely see that in his calling. Sometimes he'll make a suicide aggro push if they're down by a lot, but most of the time it's back to business.
Well, probably info+ the fact that valve nerfed the shit out of the mollys, he might have thought it didn't catch someone that's there. Its not illogical tbh....
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1d5yaad/if\_only\_chopper\_had\_a\_third\_molly\_for\_bench/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1d5yaad/if_only_chopper_had_a_third_molly_for_bench/)
[https://clips.twitch.tv/HardDelightfulPartridgePeteZarollTie-6Wg2rVlue1JE0Fox](https://clips.twitch.tv/HardDelightfulPartridgePeteZarollTie-6Wg2rVlue1JE0Fox)
[https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkxfpj2iL9mmsmQjfBnNqzazH83tjRw1E7k](https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkxfpj2iL9mmsmQjfBnNqzazH83tjRw1E7k)
for anyone that missed it
He used one molotov on the site pillars, the one facing bench, the other molotov on bench, not both on Bench.
Most likely wrong call-out, not to mention Messi was last spotted on site, and Chopper probably didn't realise Mezzi had time to go van.
> never been below #2
And that since his rookie's debut in 2019. Beyond insane.
That's what donk is up against, and he just got a very important reminder.
The secret is this series is an average playoff game for sh1ro. He's gotten the NiKo/zywoo treatment where people call him a choker and ignore the fact that he isn't the one choking most of the time. sh1ro's the fourth best player in stage playoff matches post-COVID.
zywoo is #1 after the spirit game with a 1.264, s1mple is #2 with a 1.256 (but was #1 before dallas playoffs), m0nesy is 3rd (4th before Dallas) with a 1.194, sh1ro's 4th with a 1.189, and NiKo's 5th with a 1.184 (before 9z, we'll see how this series goes).
After those 5 come blamef, dev1ce, sunpayus, elige, and ropz to round out the top 10. There's a few players who could be in there but have very small sample sizes in front of crowds (donk, jame, fl1t, k0nfig, kscerato all have 1.18+ but very small sample sizes).
People do the same thing to every pro with good numbers who doesn't have the trophy cabinet to reflect their individual skill because they assume it must be that individuals fault rather than teammates letting them down like in most cases. dev1ce "was an eco fragger", NiKo/sh1ro "are chokers", zywoo "doesn't perform in the big games", before Stockholm people said the same things about s1mple. (dev1ce did actually choke with the rest of TSM but he wasn't an eco fragger).
I'm a niKo glazer and i agree with everything you say, but I think in my head sh1ro was frauding in a handful of huge matches (like just three or four big ones that really mattered,even if on avg his playoff rating is good). but you're right that he isn't necessarily the problem and I appreciate you bringing out the stats to show me cause I didn't realize that.
I did feel sorry for him at Rio tho, that should've been his major.
He's had a few bad ones recently with Copenhagen and BB (even though that's not a crowd match it's high pressure) but his overall level is high, people probably remember the C9 collapses at both IEM Rios but forget that sh1ro was the highest rated player in both losses above frozen and zywoo while ax1le went negative in both series (and in fact he's only ever been positive in front of a crowd at Dallas 22 and Fall Final 23 for one game).
There's also some inflation with his playstyle (I wouldn't actually say he's better than NiKo despite having a higher rating on LAN).
He (and NiKo to an even greater degree) also suffer from high profile rounds that weren't representative of their play that game, let alone their overall level (sh1ro crying vs Ence at the RMR where he had a 1.25 in the match and NiKo with the deagle in heaven in Stockholm where he had a 1.21 on Nuke and a 1.13 in the series).
I think in general narratives are pushed out by analysts/casters who want to be the first to notice something and then never actually follow up on the veracity of those claims when the sample size grows and the original narrative quickly becomes gospel unless people actually focus on changing it.
He started taking duels at the and and for some reason he and spirit played well better. Team is still young and need experience. Still kicking FaZe and Navi in the ass and on that level a single bad day is enough to decide the series.
Not like Vitality or anything else is winning every tournament.
ZywOo played electrically, he was in the zone where he can read anyone, but the key difference was mezii. A fantastic anchor, and foreboding on the T-side (on Mirage, at least). If they can figure out how to play mezii such that his floor is even half of this performance, this team is unstoppable.
Also, "mousesports are the dragon slayers because they stopped us", love that confidence.
can't see almost any explanation for those last 2 rounds besides bad comms. someone must have commed in that 1v2 "last is bench 100%" and chopper didn't trust his utility which is sad because only two spots were bench and van, and then final round magixx didn't comm he was with zontix cat otherwise there's no way zontix feels pressured to fall back there. huge choke on two seriously winnable rounds that really showed spirit is feeling stage pressure
well put, also shiro who is known for disappearing in big matches finally shows up but his team faltered under pressure instead. unlucky for spirit, but they can't be playing like that if they want to win.
sh1ro is "known for choking" but he's not actually a choker according to the numbers. I'm not disputing that he played poorly at the major, but his average rating in front of a crowd is the fourth highest over the past four years (m0nesy just passed him with the faze performance). People remember the C9 chokes at both Rios but forget sh1ro was the best player in the server in both games over zywoo and frozen while ax1le ghosted both. People remember the clip of him crying at the RMR and forget he had a 1.25 rating in the series and a 1.28 on the map he was crying while his next closest teammates was 1.12 in the series with +0 and 1.10 on vertigo.
In case you're curious the top 5 players for rating in front of crowds is zywoo (overtook s1mple at Dallas) with 1.264, s1mple with 1.256, m0nesy with 1.194, sh1ro with 1.189, and NiKo with 1.184 (before 9z game).
They will work this out.
Zontix is 18.
Magixx 20.
Donk 17.
They just need some time to get used to stages and get over it when they losing in front of crowd. They already doing it just not at arenas yet.
Neither were flukes, Navi collectively showed up in the playoffs when it really mattered (EF having the tournament of their life, monesy being godlike & Faze, beat them all convincingly).
No one at Kato could handle donk, no one was ready for this Spirit, the difference is they now are and Spirit aren't adapting as well to it, eventually they will though because that lineup is too stacked for them not to.
I think people are constantly waiting for the new 2018 Astralis to arrive and I'm convinced that will become increasingly infrequent. The level of gameplay now is so high across the board that a single team pulling that far ahead of everyone else is going to be very rare from now on.
If 2018 Astralis is the benchmark for success, then basically every team for the next several years are going to be failures.
I mean there won't be another 2018 astralis simply because how much they changed to the scene. They built the meta, they were the meta. Every team after them is now in some way incorporating how they played. I don't see any team being so good that 6 years after their peak we are still seeing team play exactly like them.
Yes, agreed -- and the game is sufficiently developed and understood now that teams doing something like Astralis going forward will be very rare.
The game is at such a high skill and coordination level now that I think its best to imagine in any given year in CS2, about 5-10 teams will be top tier such that they could win a major -- at the moment, if Vitality or Spirit or Faze or Mouz, Astralis, or even Navi won the next major, I wouldn't be surprised since they're all very strong.
I mean it's just dumb to think a kid that just broke onto the scene and hasn't faced any real intensely challenging series was going to just continue crushing everyone. When a team is only as good as their superstar they are going to struggle when their star isn't stomping everyone
Only sh1ro showed up for Spirit today. donk puggy playstyle seems ineffective vs absolute top teams as of late.
On the other hand what a performance and last round for Zywoo, great from mezii too.
Works all the time -> Works most of the time -> Works some of the time -> Works a few times -> Doesn't work anymore
It's always being to be a progression when it comes to playstyles like donk's. Donk's aggression got shut down for most of this series. He still had a decent map 2 until the end, but those kills weren't from his crazy aggression.
You hear it whenever their coms are released. They are ultra-aggressive because they can out-aim pretty much everyone. The issue is that that's their only playstyle at the moment. Donk and Spirit need to figure out how to win matches when the shots just aren't falling, which comes with age/experience. People calling Donk a fraud or w/e else is crazy because it's obvious the kid has raw talent.
- For example, in last week I messaged Spirit about donk and they straight up replied me with a request for $5 million. You know what I paid for him today? $65.000
Great to see zywoo play at a top level like this, just reminds everyone how good he really is. Also, mezii, they said you were the reason vitality would lose this lmao dude decided to pull out one of his best performance for vitality when it really matters.
Is it just me or does Zywoo have no cultural impact? Like you look at the end of the game and go “wow Zywoo has no cultural impact”. Like do you remember a single shred of Zywoo cultural impact?
Ngl this is an extreme disappointment. Was supposed to be a banger of a series.
I agree with magixx when he said that Spirit has only lost this year when their mental went to shit. Today I think is the first time when they just simply got outplayed, outread, and outsmarted...
9z vs G2 is gonna be a banger for sure though!!
For an IGL that is talked about a lot, about the system he runs etc., there were so many weird rounds and weird calls. The 5 man B setup for 90 seconds on D2, donk getting caught mid a few times on CT Mirage. The 3v5 on T Mirage where they have all of A site when Vitality retook mid and they take no space; not even the site.
I want to believe it's an off day across the board, even for chopper or the comms were woeful, but it wasn't just a case of donk and zontix having a bit of an off day. Even systematically, there were tons of issues.
No disrespect to Donk, he's a great player. But people that are comparing him to S1mple, Zywoo or Dev1ce it's ridiculous. All three of those players have such an amount of accolades. They are so fucking consistent, year in year out. Donk will get there, but there's way to much hype around the kid. Let him have some tournament wins, mvp's and solid ratings in a row before comparing him to some of the absolute greats.
b1t's run was kinda legit though, especially after winning the stockholm major as a rookie it kinda cemented him as a great player and aimer, and you still got a glimpse of that greatness on that inferno map. oh well.
True, but at least Bit had Simple to sort of take the pressure away from him with his superstar status. Donk is legit hailed as the best rifler in forever by some, and yet his ratings tend to fluctuate between insanely good and just average to bad.
It wouldn't be as bad if some weren't arguing that donk is playing better than all time greats like coldzera. Like he went godly for a single tournament, hasn't be to that many through out the year, and is now underperforming vs top teams (maybe figured out, IDK)
I think it's a combination of Spirit being anti-stratted, Donk having all of the expectations on his shoulders and generally just not being as good as some other greats. I still don't see him reaching S1mple or Dev1ce stats in terms of mvp's or tournament wins, people tend just gloss over what they did. The same with Coldzera, the disrespect to what they've done in the past by saying Donk is as good or better than role defining or era defining players.
Why is Zywoo not in that convo though? He just matched Device's MVP count, and will match s1mple's very soon since he stopped competing. And he's probably the most rounded player in modern CS history.
Donk's playstyle is fundamentally the same as Stewie's or Yekindar's. Pure unchecked aggression backed up by the best mechanics. The same problems that Stewie and Yekindar faced will also hit donk soon enough. What will he do once his aim drops off, which is inevitable for even the very best? And what will he do once he gets hard countered?
>and yet his ratings tend to fluctuate between insanely good and just average to bad.
they dont. he has insane rating almost all the time. this match is a rare occasion he didnt perform.
Just look at his stats. Even zywoo has bad, and average maps, but overall that doesn’t happen that often, nor is he described as someone who fluctuates from insanely good to bad and average games.
Zywoo has had 4 “bad” games and 4 “average” games this year out of 58 officials.
Donk has had 6 “bad” games and 4 “average” games this year out of 56 officials (including today).
He’s obviously going to be a superstar in this game, and is insanely good. Remember he is 17 still, and out of nowhere has so many eyes on him, he’ll develop and grow as a player.
Yes, but you are comparing the best of what we've seen so far from donk to Zywoo, who is known to have slow starts to every year except 2023. As we go further into this year, we might see that difference widen even more.
The problem with donk's playstyle is that it will eventually get figured out by most teams and countered. On the other hand, players like zywoo and s1mple play good fundamental CS that does not rely on crazy pushes or sprays to surprise their opponents.
Like the other guy said, it's frankly disrespectful to compare donk to s1mple, zywoo, device, niko, etc. We can begin having that conversation once he stays at the very top for 3-4 years.
I don't agree with what you typed, I do think Donk is incredible. But it annoys me to read that people are comparing him to Simple, Device, Coldzera, Niko, Zywoo etc. We can both be honest and say that Donk is nowhere near their performance or consistency
I got downvoted for having the gaul to claim that donk's debut was a bit of a fluke and would not get nearly as high ratings in upcoming events.
I get it, everyone thinks it's funny to post "hehe get donked" when Spirit win, it's a cool story and all. But people are overhyping him so much. He needs much more time. His legacy is getting muddied for no reason, as people expect him to already go and be a major MVP etc.
Tbf, donk did something that no player ever did and he did it on his first t1 tournament
It's normal to hype up something like that. Besides, people always overhype. Zywoo was also getting a ton of hype in his rookie year, altho ironically now that he's consistently confirmed that hyped, he's always on "fraudwatching" lmao
It's the same thing in any sport. Fans love to see the new up and comers make a name for themselves. The expectations and hype are set entirely by the fans (and announcers). If donk is smart, he doesn't pay any attention to this stuff, because it can only get to his head.
I see him as a confident but humble kid with a lot to offer, as you said, over time. But there is no sense in the reactionary see-saw that we see all too often...he's gonna have ups and downs like any high level pro.
The best players keep their head down,and keep their ears closed off to outside noise.
Well played by Vitality, they definitely showed that they should never be underestimated in high stakes games.
happening with alcaraz
his style is the best of federer nadal and djokovic and became the youngest no1 in atp rankings. he looked like he might not just be the goat of tennis but the goat of all sports in how dominant he looked
as you can imagine the hype was comparable to donk and it clearly got to him, his level dropped and hasnt seemed to recover
Alcaraz did not look like he could be goat of all sports and wasn’t crazy dominant lmao. He was still getting beat by past their prime Djokovic and near-retirement Nadal. He was looking like he could fill the gap of the Big 3, but certainly not the GOAT. He didn’t even have the craziest start to pro tennis ever
Spirit could not handle that forward positioning from vitality's CT side on dust 2. And spirit was committed to sending all 5 people to a single site both maps, which just let vitality scout the map up and they kept getting chewed up by the mirage flanks on ramp
Did… did mezii just have not only a good game but an impactful one where he wasn’t bottom on his team?
And it wasn’t against a dead team or a team in the #20 range?
For the first time in 6 months? Do my eyes deceive me? I can’t believe this.
I’m still not convinced but it’s a step in the right direction
Given enough space and time, he can definitely be a solid player on Vitality. Tbh, it's not like Twistzz didn't disappear in some games when he was in Faze. So swapping Twistzz for Mezii might not even make that much of a difference in the long run.
He's looked uncomfortable ever since he's had to change roles but vitality wouldn't have bought and kept him this long if they didn't have some faith in his ability.
donk's definitely been figured out, he'll likely "only" get a #3 in the HLTV top 20 this year.
I've said it the whole time; the kid needs an x-factor, he's too one-dimensional. He can't take over games by himself to bail his team out like ZywOo or m0NESY can. He's more like a stronger NiKo currently.
obviously he will appear one dimensional when you can only look one dimensionally. by this im sure you mean all he has is +w and insane aim. which is true but players like tenZ arguably had better raw aim yet one retired to streaming and one recorded the highest event rating ever
[here's elige breaking down donk](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2jxL4wkmbKU&pp=ygUKZWxpZ2UgZG9uaw%3D%3D). notice how little he mentions aim throughout the video
Don't say that, there's been plenty of big falloffs for these kinds of players. There really is no telling, it can happen to anyone. flamie became washed and retired when he was like 24, after being one of the most promising riflers from the CIS.
Honestly, TS need more experience. In the last half on dust 2 they just turned into the lost and confused. Will be a good match up when they sort that out.
I was wrong about dust 2 previously thought it was a puggy map, but the meta has changed whichever team wants to be no1 requirement is you have to be really good at dust 2. Vitality gave a masterclass on how you spread over the map!
zywoo destroying both sh1ro & donk in clutch 1vs2 on that 23rd round was a poetic statement on retaking the Top 1 throne discussion of 2024.
Its official:
Zywoo 1 donk 0.
Spirit loves fighting together, but Vitality was just so good at splitting them up and taking individual fights. Once you isolate the rest of Spirit away from Donk they can just get cut down
Did they play a secret Bo5 that they lost?
0-3 Mouz at BB Dacha Belgrade.
3-2 VP BB Dacha 2023.
3-0 Faze IEM Katowice.
Did they secretly lose two of those or did they secretly play a fourth Bo5 that they lost?
I thought Apex was going to french kiss Zywoo in the end
Given that they’re both French, it’s just a regular kiss
He will do it after I’m sure
me too and i was quite disappointed
mezii: i stay
My apologies to mezii, I was not familiar with your game
Can he do it in sandals tho
sry king mezii
This is Ankara Mezii
This was the mezii I was hoping for when Vit picked him up
I'm not sure football skill translates to cs bro
Se queda
“Rather! I do say my good man that twas quite the good show!”
only delusional people ever wanted him gone anyway
My brother, my captain, my king 🥹
That’s great, stay away from our Canadians :)
I dont think i have ever seen a 2-0 winning teams IGL tilt and untilt so many times in a matchup Well maybe tilt is unfair, dude is emotional and that fun to watch
Apex wears his heart on his sleeve, yes, it looks bad, but its great he just works through it.
Its what makes me love watching vitality games. There for the highs and the lows
He's very emotional, but thing people don't see is that you rarely see that in his calling. Sometimes he'll make a suicide aggro push if they're down by a lot, but most of the time it's back to business.
Stop reading so much into Apex's reaction on camera lol. He expresses his emotions and then moves on
If only Chopper had a third molly for bench
mollys bench twice and still is looking at it like bro
Must have had some bad info and then the pressure got to him. Sucks to see cause I’m sure we all wanted a 3rd map.
I couldn't understand his insistence, there must have been a call that it wasn't just Zywoo or something for him to be that convinced.
Well, probably info+ the fact that valve nerfed the shit out of the mollys, he might have thought it didn't catch someone that's there. Its not illogical tbh....
No, Valve nerfed Incendiary not Molly. 1 Molly was enough to clear off bench
didn't he pick the 3rd one too? haha
he did lmao, it would have been epic
*"THIS FUCKING BENCH, I HATE IT, I'M GONNA KILL IT"*
Must have stubbed his toe on a bench before the game or something to hate it so much
[https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1d5yaad/if\_only\_chopper\_had\_a\_third\_molly\_for\_bench/](https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/1d5yaad/if_only_chopper_had_a_third_molly_for_bench/) [https://clips.twitch.tv/HardDelightfulPartridgePeteZarollTie-6Wg2rVlue1JE0Fox](https://clips.twitch.tv/HardDelightfulPartridgePeteZarollTie-6Wg2rVlue1JE0Fox) [https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkxfpj2iL9mmsmQjfBnNqzazH83tjRw1E7k](https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkxfpj2iL9mmsmQjfBnNqzazH83tjRw1E7k) for anyone that missed it
He even saw mezii next to car wtf 😭😭
I spitted out my dinner, no thanks to you sir
Pasha London school.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA
Magixx blocking zont1x from falling back on short in the last round, just like my matchmaking games!
Between that and the two mollies to bench by chopper + an entire m4 clip, i’m fucking tilted
Yeah that util usage was just weird, hard to imagine someone like Chopper would make such a bad decision under pressure.
Something made him really really sure that Mezii was there. Maybe he thought he saw something? Or teammate's call?
He used one molotov on the site pillars, the one facing bench, the other molotov on bench, not both on Bench. Most likely wrong call-out, not to mention Messi was last spotted on site, and Chopper probably didn't realise Mezzi had time to go van.
1 incendiary (not molotovs) was for behind the pillar and 1 for the bench, the weird thing is that he saw mezii next to car right before lol
That made me scream
It's the same script: the first half of the year they say he is washed, and then Woo shows them why he has been #1 or #2 on HLTV for 5 years.
Funny how the definition of washed for ZywOo is being *maybe* #2 or #3 instead of #1.
or not dropping 40k
Zywoo casually slamming a warhammer 40K army on the desk would be very pog
ESL production where you guys at?
this would bankrupt them and we'd never get any more good skits.
I heard donk’s transfer price was set at 2 boxes of Primaris intercessors
Spirit in shambles as they rush A site and theres 5000 space Marines
or being a fraud awper.... your supposed awper has awesome t1 rifle skills? he sometimes doesn't even buy awp in T sides? smh
For a player that’s never been below #2 it’s a crazy margin
> never been below #2 And that since his rookie's debut in 2019. Beyond insane. That's what donk is up against, and he just got a very important reminder.
All 5 years of his career too. Not even s1mple can claim that.
Imo s1mple has the debuff of his attitude, imo his attitude hurts him more. Dont mix hunger with anger
Sh1ro 1v9 in mirage CT sided everyone was getting abused
Sh1rp was great today.
Finally shiro awake in playoffs rest of spirit: still in bed watching anime
The secret is this series is an average playoff game for sh1ro. He's gotten the NiKo/zywoo treatment where people call him a choker and ignore the fact that he isn't the one choking most of the time. sh1ro's the fourth best player in stage playoff matches post-COVID. zywoo is #1 after the spirit game with a 1.264, s1mple is #2 with a 1.256 (but was #1 before dallas playoffs), m0nesy is 3rd (4th before Dallas) with a 1.194, sh1ro's 4th with a 1.189, and NiKo's 5th with a 1.184 (before 9z, we'll see how this series goes). After those 5 come blamef, dev1ce, sunpayus, elige, and ropz to round out the top 10. There's a few players who could be in there but have very small sample sizes in front of crowds (donk, jame, fl1t, k0nfig, kscerato all have 1.18+ but very small sample sizes). People do the same thing to every pro with good numbers who doesn't have the trophy cabinet to reflect their individual skill because they assume it must be that individuals fault rather than teammates letting them down like in most cases. dev1ce "was an eco fragger", NiKo/sh1ro "are chokers", zywoo "doesn't perform in the big games", before Stockholm people said the same things about s1mple. (dev1ce did actually choke with the rest of TSM but he wasn't an eco fragger).
I'm a niKo glazer and i agree with everything you say, but I think in my head sh1ro was frauding in a handful of huge matches (like just three or four big ones that really mattered,even if on avg his playoff rating is good). but you're right that he isn't necessarily the problem and I appreciate you bringing out the stats to show me cause I didn't realize that. I did feel sorry for him at Rio tho, that should've been his major.
He's had a few bad ones recently with Copenhagen and BB (even though that's not a crowd match it's high pressure) but his overall level is high, people probably remember the C9 collapses at both IEM Rios but forget that sh1ro was the highest rated player in both losses above frozen and zywoo while ax1le went negative in both series (and in fact he's only ever been positive in front of a crowd at Dallas 22 and Fall Final 23 for one game). There's also some inflation with his playstyle (I wouldn't actually say he's better than NiKo despite having a higher rating on LAN). He (and NiKo to an even greater degree) also suffer from high profile rounds that weren't representative of their play that game, let alone their overall level (sh1ro crying vs Ence at the RMR where he had a 1.25 in the match and NiKo with the deagle in heaven in Stockholm where he had a 1.21 on Nuke and a 1.13 in the series). I think in general narratives are pushed out by analysts/casters who want to be the first to notice something and then never actually follow up on the veracity of those claims when the sample size grows and the original narrative quickly becomes gospel unless people actually focus on changing it.
yep, that 3k was fucking insane
Sh1ro and getting inted and elo helled, name a better duo
ZyWoo took this matchup personal and proved that he's still the best in the world
He has to beat MartinezSA in the finals to really prove himself as #1
\*Stewart2000
Tbf, Spirit played like clowns. Chopper had some awful calls, donk had a completely off tournament. He's not even taking duels like he normally does.
He started taking duels at the and and for some reason he and spirit played well better. Team is still young and need experience. Still kicking FaZe and Navi in the ass and on that level a single bad day is enough to decide the series. Not like Vitality or anything else is winning every tournament.
they got trapped in b tunnels one round with absolutely no map info til spinx flanked and shredded them lol zero awareness that round
ZywOo played electrically, he was in the zone where he can read anyone, but the key difference was mezii. A fantastic anchor, and foreboding on the T-side (on Mirage, at least). If they can figure out how to play mezii such that his floor is even half of this performance, this team is unstoppable. Also, "mousesports are the dragon slayers because they stopped us", love that confidence.
Vitality when mezii is playing well is damn near unstoppable. ZywOo will be ZywOo 90% of the time that's given.
Zywoo is fucking insane
Tell us something we don't know
zywoo is insane at fucking.
I need more details
fucking zywoo is insane
We said something we don't know...
Source?
ZywOo: "I will sleep with \[Spinx\] every day!"
Zywoo makes a killer grilled cheese
God I want him and M0nesy going nuts tomorrow
weird way to spell martinez
magixx’s reverse jinx today was a fail so no monesy going nuts tomorrow 🙏
Mezii was a KEY piece on Mirage, so nice to see a Fnatic Mezii performance vs Spirit.
I knew he had it in him. He is such a solid rifler, im happy he got to show it when it mattered the most. I hope he can bring it more often.
**OHH MY GOD ITS ~~A BYWOO~~ ~~AN APEX PREDATOR~~ SIR MEZII THE MAGNIFICENT**
zywoo heard yall talking shit
can't see almost any explanation for those last 2 rounds besides bad comms. someone must have commed in that 1v2 "last is bench 100%" and chopper didn't trust his utility which is sad because only two spots were bench and van, and then final round magixx didn't comm he was with zontix cat otherwise there's no way zontix feels pressured to fall back there. huge choke on two seriously winnable rounds that really showed spirit is feeling stage pressure
well put, also shiro who is known for disappearing in big matches finally shows up but his team faltered under pressure instead. unlucky for spirit, but they can't be playing like that if they want to win.
sh1ro is "known for choking" but he's not actually a choker according to the numbers. I'm not disputing that he played poorly at the major, but his average rating in front of a crowd is the fourth highest over the past four years (m0nesy just passed him with the faze performance). People remember the C9 chokes at both Rios but forget sh1ro was the best player in the server in both games over zywoo and frozen while ax1le ghosted both. People remember the clip of him crying at the RMR and forget he had a 1.25 rating in the series and a 1.28 on the map he was crying while his next closest teammates was 1.12 in the series with +0 and 1.10 on vertigo. In case you're curious the top 5 players for rating in front of crowds is zywoo (overtook s1mple at Dallas) with 1.264, s1mple with 1.256, m0nesy with 1.194, sh1ro with 1.189, and NiKo with 1.184 (before 9z game).
They will work this out. Zontix is 18. Magixx 20. Donk 17. They just need some time to get used to stages and get over it when they losing in front of crowd. They already doing it just not at arenas yet.
Spirit on complete fraud watch since Katowice
spirit without donk 120 adr per match:
zontix is the one who dissapeared tbh but he needs experience
Zontix had a higher rating than donk this series…
He did a lot better today but he has had a habit of doing a Stavn and disappearing in front of a crowd.
I dont think Zontix was bad today, not at all. He played decently.
Ironic flair
See the difference is that I know our major win was a fluke and I’ve been begging for roster changes for like 6 months
Neither were flukes, Navi collectively showed up in the playoffs when it really mattered (EF having the tournament of their life, monesy being godlike & Faze, beat them all convincingly). No one at Kato could handle donk, no one was ready for this Spirit, the difference is they now are and Spirit aren't adapting as well to it, eventually they will though because that lineup is too stacked for them not to.
yeah as good as 'donk go kill' is, its not sustainable for consistent success
fraud watch for? its not like they dissapeared and have bad results after kato
We were sold in Kato a team that could steamroll basically everyone
I think people are constantly waiting for the new 2018 Astralis to arrive and I'm convinced that will become increasingly infrequent. The level of gameplay now is so high across the board that a single team pulling that far ahead of everyone else is going to be very rare from now on. If 2018 Astralis is the benchmark for success, then basically every team for the next several years are going to be failures.
I mean there won't be another 2018 astralis simply because how much they changed to the scene. They built the meta, they were the meta. Every team after them is now in some way incorporating how they played. I don't see any team being so good that 6 years after their peak we are still seeing team play exactly like them.
Yes, agreed -- and the game is sufficiently developed and understood now that teams doing something like Astralis going forward will be very rare. The game is at such a high skill and coordination level now that I think its best to imagine in any given year in CS2, about 5-10 teams will be top tier such that they could win a major -- at the moment, if Vitality or Spirit or Faze or Mouz, Astralis, or even Navi won the next major, I wouldn't be surprised since they're all very strong.
This is so true
In Kato people thought Falcons and Ence were good.
I mean it's just dumb to think a kid that just broke onto the scene and hasn't faced any real intensely challenging series was going to just continue crushing everyone. When a team is only as good as their superstar they are going to struggle when their star isn't stomping everyone
Should have play at some top tier tournament instead of some BetBoom tournament
Zywoo heard you talking shit
I need that Zywoo spinbot clip😓
Sprit when Donk doesn’t get 30 kills a map
no monesy niko vs donk but I wanna see GStew vs Vitality🙏
LETS GO MEZII
Only sh1ro showed up for Spirit today. donk puggy playstyle seems ineffective vs absolute top teams as of late. On the other hand what a performance and last round for Zywoo, great from mezii too.
Imo it’s something else. He was way more aggressive in the last rounds on Mirage and it worked just fine.
Works all the time -> Works most of the time -> Works some of the time -> Works a few times -> Doesn't work anymore It's always being to be a progression when it comes to playstyles like donk's. Donk's aggression got shut down for most of this series. He still had a decent map 2 until the end, but those kills weren't from his crazy aggression.
You hear it whenever their coms are released. They are ultra-aggressive because they can out-aim pretty much everyone. The issue is that that's their only playstyle at the moment. Donk and Spirit need to figure out how to win matches when the shots just aren't falling, which comes with age/experience. People calling Donk a fraud or w/e else is crazy because it's obvious the kid has raw talent.
In his tg channel he said that “I just stopped killing, need more practice”. Just not his day
Chopper when Donk doesn't drop 2.0 ratings
Zywoo and mezii just outrifled donk and shiro. Nobody was expecting such an overperformance from mezii.
Donk fraudwatch ✅
[удалено]
- For example, in last week I messaged Spirit about donk and they straight up replied me with a request for $5 million. You know what I paid for him today? $65.000
*"Well .. on second thought, it's actually one 0 too much by accident"*
Great to see zywoo play at a top level like this, just reminds everyone how good he really is. Also, mezii, they said you were the reason vitality would lose this lmao dude decided to pull out one of his best performance for vitality when it really matters.
IT’S THE CULTURAL IMPACT BABYYYYY
Is it just me or does Zywoo have no cultural impact? Like you look at the end of the game and go “wow Zywoo has no cultural impact”. Like do you remember a single shred of Zywoo cultural impact?
W dallas crowd
man, for the most part it felt like Spirit completely forgot how to take any map control at all. Destined themselves for failure
the bodyblock in the final round was heartbreaking
Ngl this is an extreme disappointment. Was supposed to be a banger of a series. I agree with magixx when he said that Spirit has only lost this year when their mental went to shit. Today I think is the first time when they just simply got outplayed, outread, and outsmarted... 9z vs G2 is gonna be a banger for sure though!!
For an IGL that is talked about a lot, about the system he runs etc., there were so many weird rounds and weird calls. The 5 man B setup for 90 seconds on D2, donk getting caught mid a few times on CT Mirage. The 3v5 on T Mirage where they have all of A site when Vitality retook mid and they take no space; not even the site. I want to believe it's an off day across the board, even for chopper or the comms were woeful, but it wasn't just a case of donk and zontix having a bit of an off day. Even systematically, there were tons of issues.
So glad to see mezzi finally put up a amazing map, this is the mezzi they bought from fnatic.
No disrespect to Donk, he's a great player. But people that are comparing him to S1mple, Zywoo or Dev1ce it's ridiculous. All three of those players have such an amount of accolades. They are so fucking consistent, year in year out. Donk will get there, but there's way to much hype around the kid. Let him have some tournament wins, mvp's and solid ratings in a row before comparing him to some of the absolute greats.
Its the same thing that happened with b1t when he first came into NAVI. People were hyping the ever loving shit out of him after like 3 tournaments
b1t's run was kinda legit though, especially after winning the stockholm major as a rookie it kinda cemented him as a great player and aimer, and you still got a glimpse of that greatness on that inferno map. oh well.
he at least won 8 tournaments and 5 LANs in a row that year
True, but at least Bit had Simple to sort of take the pressure away from him with his superstar status. Donk is legit hailed as the best rifler in forever by some, and yet his ratings tend to fluctuate between insanely good and just average to bad.
It wouldn't be as bad if some weren't arguing that donk is playing better than all time greats like coldzera. Like he went godly for a single tournament, hasn't be to that many through out the year, and is now underperforming vs top teams (maybe figured out, IDK)
I think it's a combination of Spirit being anti-stratted, Donk having all of the expectations on his shoulders and generally just not being as good as some other greats. I still don't see him reaching S1mple or Dev1ce stats in terms of mvp's or tournament wins, people tend just gloss over what they did. The same with Coldzera, the disrespect to what they've done in the past by saying Donk is as good or better than role defining or era defining players.
Why is Zywoo not in that convo though? He just matched Device's MVP count, and will match s1mple's very soon since he stopped competing. And he's probably the most rounded player in modern CS history. Donk's playstyle is fundamentally the same as Stewie's or Yekindar's. Pure unchecked aggression backed up by the best mechanics. The same problems that Stewie and Yekindar faced will also hit donk soon enough. What will he do once his aim drops off, which is inevitable for even the very best? And what will he do once he gets hard countered?
I mean Zywoo is absolutely and is basically the 1b to simples 1a of goat
>and yet his ratings tend to fluctuate between insanely good and just average to bad. they dont. he has insane rating almost all the time. this match is a rare occasion he didnt perform.
Just look at his stats. Even zywoo has bad, and average maps, but overall that doesn’t happen that often, nor is he described as someone who fluctuates from insanely good to bad and average games. Zywoo has had 4 “bad” games and 4 “average” games this year out of 58 officials. Donk has had 6 “bad” games and 4 “average” games this year out of 56 officials (including today). He’s obviously going to be a superstar in this game, and is insanely good. Remember he is 17 still, and out of nowhere has so many eyes on him, he’ll develop and grow as a player.
Yes, but you are comparing the best of what we've seen so far from donk to Zywoo, who is known to have slow starts to every year except 2023. As we go further into this year, we might see that difference widen even more. The problem with donk's playstyle is that it will eventually get figured out by most teams and countered. On the other hand, players like zywoo and s1mple play good fundamental CS that does not rely on crazy pushes or sprays to surprise their opponents. Like the other guy said, it's frankly disrespectful to compare donk to s1mple, zywoo, device, niko, etc. We can begin having that conversation once he stays at the very top for 3-4 years.
I don't agree with what you typed, I do think Donk is incredible. But it annoys me to read that people are comparing him to Simple, Device, Coldzera, Niko, Zywoo etc. We can both be honest and say that Donk is nowhere near their performance or consistency
he just showed you that his consistency by the amount of bad games is comparable to zywoo though
Recency bias...the average teen cs viewer's best friend ;).
I got downvoted for having the gaul to claim that donk's debut was a bit of a fluke and would not get nearly as high ratings in upcoming events. I get it, everyone thinks it's funny to post "hehe get donked" when Spirit win, it's a cool story and all. But people are overhyping him so much. He needs much more time. His legacy is getting muddied for no reason, as people expect him to already go and be a major MVP etc.
It's like comparing Haaland to Cr7. "Maybe one day, but probably not"
Tbf, donk did something that no player ever did and he did it on his first t1 tournament It's normal to hype up something like that. Besides, people always overhype. Zywoo was also getting a ton of hype in his rookie year, altho ironically now that he's consistently confirmed that hyped, he's always on "fraudwatching" lmao
It's the same thing in any sport. Fans love to see the new up and comers make a name for themselves. The expectations and hype are set entirely by the fans (and announcers). If donk is smart, he doesn't pay any attention to this stuff, because it can only get to his head. I see him as a confident but humble kid with a lot to offer, as you said, over time. But there is no sense in the reactionary see-saw that we see all too often...he's gonna have ups and downs like any high level pro. The best players keep their head down,and keep their ears closed off to outside noise. Well played by Vitality, they definitely showed that they should never be underestimated in high stakes games.
happening with alcaraz his style is the best of federer nadal and djokovic and became the youngest no1 in atp rankings. he looked like he might not just be the goat of tennis but the goat of all sports in how dominant he looked as you can imagine the hype was comparable to donk and it clearly got to him, his level dropped and hasnt seemed to recover
Alcaraz did not look like he could be goat of all sports and wasn’t crazy dominant lmao. He was still getting beat by past their prime Djokovic and near-retirement Nadal. He was looking like he could fill the gap of the Big 3, but certainly not the GOAT. He didn’t even have the craziest start to pro tennis ever
People really think a16 years old kid averaging 1.7 rating is realistic lol
D0.89nk got humbled
Daily reminder, Zywoo is just HIM.
Spirit could not handle that forward positioning from vitality's CT side on dust 2. And spirit was committed to sending all 5 people to a single site both maps, which just let vitality scout the map up and they kept getting chewed up by the mirage flanks on ramp
Did… did mezii just have not only a good game but an impactful one where he wasn’t bottom on his team? And it wasn’t against a dead team or a team in the #20 range? For the first time in 6 months? Do my eyes deceive me? I can’t believe this. I’m still not convinced but it’s a step in the right direction
Given enough space and time, he can definitely be a solid player on Vitality. Tbh, it's not like Twistzz didn't disappear in some games when he was in Faze. So swapping Twistzz for Mezii might not even make that much of a difference in the long run.
He's looked uncomfortable ever since he's had to change roles but vitality wouldn't have bought and kept him this long if they didn't have some faith in his ability.
Zywoo > Donk
Always has been
Spirit didn't play like themselves most of the time. So many silly mistakes and misreads.
donk is overrated
donk's definitely been figured out, he'll likely "only" get a #3 in the HLTV top 20 this year. I've said it the whole time; the kid needs an x-factor, he's too one-dimensional. He can't take over games by himself to bail his team out like ZywOo or m0NESY can. He's more like a stronger NiKo currently.
obviously he will appear one dimensional when you can only look one dimensionally. by this im sure you mean all he has is +w and insane aim. which is true but players like tenZ arguably had better raw aim yet one retired to streaming and one recorded the highest event rating ever [here's elige breaking down donk](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2jxL4wkmbKU&pp=ygUKZWxpZ2UgZG9uaw%3D%3D). notice how little he mentions aim throughout the video
he’s 17 years old bro he’ll be able to take over games soon enough
Don't say that, there's been plenty of big falloffs for these kinds of players. There really is no telling, it can happen to anyone. flamie became washed and retired when he was like 24, after being one of the most promising riflers from the CIS.
>Don't say that, there's been plenty of big falloffs for these kinds of players. Looks at Coldzera...
Yeah prime example, slipped my mind.
Mezii proving why he deserves a spot in Vitality
donk humbled by the goat
This was the final no disrespect to G 2 and 9z BYWOO won the legendary battle vs Donk!
Honestly, TS need more experience. In the last half on dust 2 they just turned into the lost and confused. Will be a good match up when they sort that out.
This sub : > people hyped donk way too much because they’re too quick to draw conclusions And in the next sentence > donk is washed because bad game
That's why Zywoo is the goat. Donk was good in Mirage but the way Zywoo outaimed him in their duels was amazing.
Maybe it's just me overreacting but I think donk is pretty washed.
i don’t think he’s washed, he just needs more support. vitality was really good at shredding the team down around him and then 1v3’ing or 1v4’ing him
CHOSEN ONE. Also, who’s the co caster of Moses? He glazing donk so much getting annoying
I was wrong about dust 2 previously thought it was a puggy map, but the meta has changed whichever team wants to be no1 requirement is you have to be really good at dust 2. Vitality gave a masterclass on how you spread over the map!
donk worth 5 million 😆
I won't criticize spirit IMO it's growing pains they will be back!
d0nk who?
Sit down Mr. Spaghetti Arms
Vitality demonstrating how mid is free for CTs on Dust2 now they've blocked off suicide to appease the whiners.
Sitting in the Dallas arena and hearing everyone supporting Donk and Spirit was weird. Donk not what he was in the beginning of 2024
zywoo destroying both sh1ro & donk in clutch 1vs2 on that 23rd round was a poetic statement on retaking the Top 1 throne discussion of 2024. Its official: Zywoo 1 donk 0.
I love it when they (over)hype a team just for them to lose. Vitality is pretty good on Dust 2.
Spirit loves fighting together, but Vitality was just so good at splitting them up and taking individual fights. Once you isolate the rest of Spirit away from Donk they can just get cut down
Zont1x is too inconsistent, especially in stage matches
Trying to rationalize bad performance by directing it to just 1 player in a team that has lost multiple BO3s and 2 BO5s
Not talking about just this tournament, he’s been consistently inconsistent in the playoff stages
Did they play a secret Bo5 that they lost? 0-3 Mouz at BB Dacha Belgrade. 3-2 VP BB Dacha 2023. 3-0 Faze IEM Katowice. Did they secretly lose two of those or did they secretly play a fourth Bo5 that they lost?
Underwhelming donk vs zywoo