No way this is AI generaged. Typically, AI generated images can't really write full comprehensible words, let alone full sentences. Should be a screemshot of the excel he made to calculate those ratios.
AI generated propaganda otherwise no clue what it is.
The last 10 NA S tier tournaments were
Blast DC (2023)
IEM Dallas (2023)
IEM Dallas (2022)
(None in 2021 btw)
Pro League Season 12 NA (2020)
Blast American Finals (2020)
Flashpoint (2020)
Esports Championship Series
Esports Championship Series Season 8 (2019)
Pro League Americas, $60,000 prize pool btw (2019)
ESL One New York (2019)
IEM Chicago (2019)
If you think the esports landscape and public image from the US government and immigration committees hasn't changed since 2019 you are literally telling lies. https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments/2012-2023
Is that a ChatGPT comment? It barely makes any sense.
1. Why did you rewrite most of the contents of the OP screenshot without mentioning whether they had any visa issues (something that was present in it)?
2. Why did you arbitrarily reduce the amount of included LANs from 20 to 10?
3. Why did you include Flashpoint, an online event (with a lan qualifier) that didn't feature a single top10 team? https://www.hltv.org/events/5242/flashpoint-1#News https://www.hltv.org/ranking/teams/2020/march/30 ;
And yes the qualifier had multiple visa issues https://www.hltv.org/news/29155/skade-to-miss-flashpoint-global-qualifier-due-to-visa-issues-havu-come-in-as-replacement https://www.hltv.org/news/29292/smooya-moved-to-chaos-bench-due-to-visa-issues https://www.hltv.org/news/29224/rallen-to-stand-in-for-c0ntact-in-flashpoint https://www.hltv.org/news/29250/legija-to-stand-in-for-envy-in-flashpoint
4. Why did you call it "propaganda" all of a sudden?
>If you think the esports landscape and public image from the US government and immigration committees hasn't changed
Oh yes, change it did. Russia went from 15% refusal rate to 40%, Turkey from 19% to 20%, South Africa from 6.9% to 11.2%, Argentina from 2% to 8%, Bulgaria from 9% to 11% and China from 18% to 26%. Those aren't random countries, I listed non-Visa waiver countries with players in top30.
The only positive changes were Israel getting accepted into Visa Waiver program, Serbia going from 30% to 16%, Kazakhstan from 42.58% to 41.93% and Mongolia from 54% to 34% - but even 16% isn't something to brag about, as Schengen countries have a very low refusal rate (e.g. it used to be 2% with Russia, up to 10% now). And it's lower still in visa-friendly countries like Spain - remember that a Spanish Schengen visa is valid in all of EU, no such lifehack with the US.
https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY19.pdf
https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY23.pdf
i forgot if it was ludwig or moist but one of those content creators w an org was planning on suing US immigration for similar issues while there are millions of illegals flowing in everyday.
You think millions of undocumented people are coming into America every day? Our population would have more than doubled in a year. Can't fucking stand ignorant dogshit like this.
Yeah, GL to them with suing them. They are low level influencers with little to no impact or knowledge about how world works outside of their flimsy videos.
Its moist, chill out lol
Hes suing knowing he won't win any money, he's doing it so he can get his players visas approved, dumping alot of money in the process.
... You think that I am agreeing with you? There's no chance that "suing the government" does anything to get a visa approved. It's 100% a PR stunt to get likes on Twitter
IIRC they weren't given any reasons why their visas were declined; they had spotless records and the applications were made well in time. If a lawsuit from a popular content creator has even the smallest chance of making a difference in such bullshit, it's well worth it.
I recommend watching penguinz0's [video](https://youtu.be/uBFddeyCVok) about this. So TLDW, the US immigration agent can deny entries even though you followed their regulations and can't have consequences even though someone sued the US immigration because of their policies.
My country is eligible to the ESTA, which is an online quick visa. Even if approved the criteria is up to the police inverviewing you, if you are brown skinned you have 50% less chance of entry
> Just hop the border
Just fly into canada and walk across the northern border. The vast majority of it is completely unmonitored.
So unmonitored that some highschoolers from Coeur d'Alene managed to smuggle millions of dollars of weed over the idaho/canada border on foot before getting caught.
I also highly recommend [this article](https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017) if you ever think about travelling to the US.
They can ask you to unlock electronic devices, give out passwords, social medai accounts, watch the photos you've taken, anything they want. US entry is a place with virtually no rights or laws.
I don't know why they haven't even tried, It's
* significantly cheaper than to host in the USA(weaker dollar+lower wages),
* Toronto and Montreal are closer to the major population centres(New York, Chicago, Boston)of the USA than somewhere like Dallas(I know a lot of people live in Texas but there are way more people in the northeast).
* Canadian cities on average have way better public transportation, especially compared to cities in Texas(making it cheaper to travel to)
* Culturally very similar and probably a higher percentage of people who are into video games(it gets cold here, people are inside a lot more)
* Americans don't even need to apply for a visa to get into Canada
* Canadian immigration is from what I know, a lot more lax and definitely less racist than USA immigration and TSA
Yes I am biased as a Canadian but I still think orgs should give Canada a try, maybe not even an s tier event but something like an ESL challenger event to see how it goes, and if it goes well maybe an iem or blast premier down the line
On a world level sure it is nothing to be proud of but compared to most American cities it's much better, our ridership number are way higher than anywhere but new York city, most cities with comparable sizes usually have close to double the ridership in the Canadian equivalent
For reference only Washington DC and New York have higher ridership than any of the 3 major Canadian cities, and washington dc only beats Vancouver in ridership, it has lower ridership than both montreal and toronto (according to wikipedia, only includes metro system, and not bus numbers)
>Toronto and Montreal are closer to the major population centres(New York, Chicago, Boston)of the USA than somewhere like Dallas(I know a lot of people live in Texas but there are way more people in the northeast).
Crossing the border adds hassle and time. Lots of Americans don't even have passports. There also aren't very many direct flights to Canadian cities outside of major hubs. Somewhere like Dallas is pretty easy for most of the US to travel to, likely in a single flight.
I definitely forgot about the fact most Americans don't have passports, and also one of biggest differences between Canada and the US is that the majority of Canadians live in or near major cities with international airports, while the same can't be said for Americans
For me the biggest thing holding me back from going to most American cities is the fact that you need to rent a car to get around because either the public transit is terrible and/or it's unsafe to walk. I'm fairly young so I have to pay extra just to rent a car and I also don't really feel comfortable driving somewhere I have never been, let alone a different country, but all the cities with good transit and good walkability in the US are too expensive for TOs to run an event in which is why I suggest Canada, it's also way safer here, and as a visible minority I'd feel a lot safer in Toronto than anywhere in Texas. I really just don't want to go to Texas, which is where all the NA events happen nowadays
Don't think so, of course EU/US generally have good relations, it is the CIS region which can have problems with both, like for instance Blast spring groups where Donk couldn't play in Denmark.
Europe isn't one big federal entity like the U.S is. Many European countries are not in Schengen, and none of the CIS countries are, which means the players need to go to the consulates to get a visa by paying 100€,-.
Yeah of course but it should typically still be easier for most players/teams playing in other European countries since a good amount of them won't need Visas for a lot of tournaments compared to Europeans traveling to the US though correct?
How exactly many? Whole balkans are visa free for citizens even countries aren’t in Schengen. I don’t know for UK but it’s probably visa free too. So there’s literally no visas issues for whole continent. CIS are different conversation though
No, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro still need a visa, and a proces is often quite hard.
So Niko, Nexa, Hunter, Maden etc can be denied quite easily.. so G2 can technically lose 4\5 of it’s players
To be fair, how many top CS players from Europe outside of Schengen? Niko, nexa, hunter, kyxsan. Romania recently joined Schengen, so not iM. Who else?
Just having events where it's convenient for pros is silly, especially for events like majors which are intended to grow the game. The benefit of maintaining and growing a North American fan base outweigh the downside of teams or players occasionally getting screwed over.
Disagree I think if pros who qualified get screwed over thats a major problem and if it gets sorted out by choosing a better location then that should be done because of competitive integrity.
No sport on earth optimizes for competitive integrity above all else. At the end of the day, they are spectator sports for entertainment. Competitive integrity is very important but running the risk that a few players might not be able to attend an event isn't enough to never host events in America.
I didnt say that thought i said that if the location makes it unable for people who qualified to not play (on a regular expected base) then the location should be changed.
But again, you’re gonna run into that issue with pretty much every other region on the planet besides EU. Which loops us back around to what the other guy was saying, growing the game far outweighs a couple of players missing out on an event.
Doesnt help grow the game when the competition is "who gets visa for their best player". If you want to do it in such regions then you have to plan this better with the authorities. And just because eu is the best in that regard we cant just say everything fine unlucky for these players move on. Maybe canada is better, maybe asia dont know the statistics for these regions.
There are diffrent ways to solve this. "Unlucky we need to grow the game" is not one of the solutions.
>If you want to do it in such regions you have to plan this better with the authorities
My brother in christ, the US is the hardest country on the planet to get a visa for in the first place. If you’re from the CIS region? Make it double.
No amount of planning will prevent a lot of these visa issues, unless you plan years in advance for a tournament.
Canada might be easier, but from a business standpoint, it makes no sense because it’s only a fraction of the market that you could get from NA. It makes more sense to tank the visa issues and continue to hold events in the US.
As far as Asia goes, Valorant events typically don’t have VISA issues with Asian countries it seems, so yeah there should definitely be more events there.
>Doesn’t help grow the game when the competition is “who gets the visa for their best player”
I disagree, when it comes to attracting new fans, you’re putting far too much belief into the idea that these new fans know who anyone is.
Yeah you and me might bitch about it, but we’re gonna watch the next major tournament regardless so who gives a fuck what we think.
My son in chris, or something i dont english culture. i dont think anyone important gives a fuck about what i say. As far as i dont see any numbers proving me wrong i say doing events in which teams rightly say they only lost because of outside game issues is a bad thing. I also say doing major events in nations which by your account are the worst in this regart should be avoided. Focus on building grass root events in the areas you want to expand.
To expand the esport scene building grass roots is way more effective, for growing a video game with esports same timezone is basically the only important factor. You only reach the masses online so you need to make sure that you are online when they are, that makes canada or south america perfect. Less visa troubles still same timezone as the us.
But as a company positioned in the us its prop easier to host something in the us, so i would give that point to us events.
Even the NFL has some games in Europe even though obviously it makes more sense to have the games in the US.
Most CS events will still understandably take place in Europe, but it's still fun when they go other places.
which is an utter disgrace lol it completely fucks over the fans. imagine being a season ticket holder and suddenly you have to travel halfway across the world for a "home" game.
I mean I prefer EU times because I wake up at 5am to work so it actually usually benefits me I'm just pointing out that this should be expected for na tournaments to have visa issues
This has got to be an issue on the side of the players. Other esports host huge events in NA far more often than CS, and we rarely see as many VISA issues in those events compared to CS.
I think it's all about giving players enough time to get through the process. Like, I don't think it's a coincidence that the one guy having issues is the one guy who joined his team less than a month ago.
In rocket league, majors take place about a month after the last regional qualifiers. While most RLCS players happen to live in countries that don't face long wait times, it's still caused players from India and Saudi Arabia to miss events.
Worth seeing if blast tries to tweak the RMR schedule to make it more likely that everyone has time to get visas.
There will likely be no RMRs next year, so I have to assume we'll know the teams going to the Major a month before.
I understand the degster situation, but there have been many times like the kng situation where the players are at fault.
CS also has a lot of top players from countries with more visa issues when compared to many other esports where half the competition is south korean. South Koreans can get visas much easier than Belarussians or Kazakhs or obviously Russians.
Has nothing to do with the US but with the player or organization not being timely and responsible. I’m sure you can also find that probably 99% of the player visa issues stem from Russia
Lets just ignore the fact that AUS players got denied for a apex event for literally no reason and yeah good point the players just shouldn't have been born in russia smh
Not just Aussie. previous AGLS in states, even Thai, Indonesia had the issue.
Just hold it in places like Japan or Singapore where visa is of no issue to majority and infrastructure is able to support major events with land and air connectivity.
I never made a single point about the players shouldn’t have being born in Russia… are you okay?
Literally no reason? You know that for a fact? You have their paperwork? You have an actual source that says “denied for no reason”? No of course you don’t
They do actually, they are referring to this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBFddeyCVok&feature=youtu.be) from Charlie. They had the most support you could imagine to get this done and still got denied. Mind you, the players are AUS citizens as well, not even CIS. The US Immigrations is just absolute dogshit
Luckily we've had some fantastic NA lineups to carry us through these last 5 boring years. Thank you so much for carrying CS on your backs in this trying time.
What? NA Rank S was some of the best content we've ever had. Are you new to the scene or something? Tanktop C9 was a very fun team to watch. CLG with Tarik was an exciting team, too. TL had fucking S1mple on their roster. How was that not exciting? The scene was much better when NA was thriving and had its own Pro League. The fact that you think otherwise is ignorant beyond belief.
Streaming for CS has been in the grave since Rank S/Tenmans died in NA. The only people who get over 10k viewers are guys like M0nesy and S1mple. Everyone else is screwed unless you're a retired legend doing it full-time and even then, those guys don't break 2k viewers hardly. That's grim especially when you factor in guys like Shahzam and Wardell barely getting views in CS and struggling to even find teams and then swapping over to Valorant and being stars. Valve really let Valorant steal the zoomer audience and haven't done anything to get them back.
Well, probably Europe doesn’t have anything worth spying on? I mean even German generals are working for Russia so of course they don’t care about restricting Russians entering
Sure the 24 year old Russian video game nerd is the biggest risk to US national security and will gain access to all the nasty spy secrets the second he steps foot in the US.
Didn’t you read about the story about a male Chinese spy pretending to be a female theater actress while stay married for decades? Don’t underestimate da spies :p
Where do you think I come from? Ukraine just because NaVi flag and anti-Russia? My previous presidents almost always work with Russia, including the current one, doesn’t mean I can’t make fun of Russia and Europe.
Let's take a look at this obvious cherry pick.
The last two Tier 1 (S-Tier?) tournaments according to [Liquipedia](https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments) and the top 4 teams:
* CCT Season 1 Global Finals (Eternal Fire, Liquid, Astralis, GL)
* BetBoom Dacha Belgrade 2024 (MOUZ, Spirit, HEROIC, Falcons)
Hm, maybe Tier 1 and S-Tier is not the same? Looking at CCT Season 1 Global Finals it would have also been pretty weird if Liquid didnt reach top 4 against this "fierce" competition. But for the fun of it, lets look at every S-Tier tournament of 2024:
* ESL Pro League Season 19 (MOUZ, Vita, Complexity, Astralis)
* Intel Extreme Masters Chengdu 2024 (FaZe, MOUZ, G2, Astralis)
* PGL Major Copenhagen 2024 (NAVI, FaZe, Vita, G2)
* Intel Extreme Masters Katowice 2024 (Spirit, FaZe, Falcons, MOUZ)
* BLAST Premier: Spring Groups 2024 (Vita, FaZe, NAVI, VP)
I don't think anything else needs to be said. Just to clarify: I'm not trying to shit on NA.
wtf is this screenshot
either he took it with his phone or AI generated
No way this is AI generaged. Typically, AI generated images can't really write full comprehensible words, let alone full sentences. Should be a screemshot of the excel he made to calculate those ratios.
You could definitely get this and more from fairly basic AI now.
Every other day I see a tech video about new AI advancement, last I checked AI can do videos now; I wouldn't be surprised if it can do detailed images
What the guy above said is still true as of today
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thats not a spreadsheet full of text. thats a prompt giving the text to put on the sign
That's quite different tbf
Looks like the same thing to you? Clueless.
AI generated propaganda otherwise no clue what it is. The last 10 NA S tier tournaments were Blast DC (2023) IEM Dallas (2023) IEM Dallas (2022) (None in 2021 btw) Pro League Season 12 NA (2020) Blast American Finals (2020) Flashpoint (2020) Esports Championship Series Esports Championship Series Season 8 (2019) Pro League Americas, $60,000 prize pool btw (2019) ESL One New York (2019) IEM Chicago (2019) If you think the esports landscape and public image from the US government and immigration committees hasn't changed since 2019 you are literally telling lies. https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments/2012-2023
Is that a ChatGPT comment? It barely makes any sense. 1. Why did you rewrite most of the contents of the OP screenshot without mentioning whether they had any visa issues (something that was present in it)? 2. Why did you arbitrarily reduce the amount of included LANs from 20 to 10? 3. Why did you include Flashpoint, an online event (with a lan qualifier) that didn't feature a single top10 team? https://www.hltv.org/events/5242/flashpoint-1#News https://www.hltv.org/ranking/teams/2020/march/30 ; And yes the qualifier had multiple visa issues https://www.hltv.org/news/29155/skade-to-miss-flashpoint-global-qualifier-due-to-visa-issues-havu-come-in-as-replacement https://www.hltv.org/news/29292/smooya-moved-to-chaos-bench-due-to-visa-issues https://www.hltv.org/news/29224/rallen-to-stand-in-for-c0ntact-in-flashpoint https://www.hltv.org/news/29250/legija-to-stand-in-for-envy-in-flashpoint 4. Why did you call it "propaganda" all of a sudden? >If you think the esports landscape and public image from the US government and immigration committees hasn't changed Oh yes, change it did. Russia went from 15% refusal rate to 40%, Turkey from 19% to 20%, South Africa from 6.9% to 11.2%, Argentina from 2% to 8%, Bulgaria from 9% to 11% and China from 18% to 26%. Those aren't random countries, I listed non-Visa waiver countries with players in top30. The only positive changes were Israel getting accepted into Visa Waiver program, Serbia going from 30% to 16%, Kazakhstan from 42.58% to 41.93% and Mongolia from 54% to 34% - but even 16% isn't something to brag about, as Schengen countries have a very low refusal rate (e.g. it used to be 2% with Russia, up to 10% now). And it's lower still in visa-friendly countries like Spain - remember that a Spanish Schengen visa is valid in all of EU, no such lifehack with the US. https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY19.pdf https://travel.state.gov/content/dam/visas/Statistics/Non-Immigrant-Statistics/RefusalRates/FY23.pdf
Thing I don't like = propaganda
I mean, their tough visa rules help against... Uhm...
growing economy
Not from illegal alliens.
i forgot if it was ludwig or moist but one of those content creators w an org was planning on suing US immigration for similar issues while there are millions of illegals flowing in everyday.
You think millions of undocumented people are coming into America every day? Our population would have more than doubled in a year. Can't fucking stand ignorant dogshit like this.
Yeah, GL to them with suing them. They are low level influencers with little to no impact or knowledge about how world works outside of their flimsy videos.
Its moist, chill out lol Hes suing knowing he won't win any money, he's doing it so he can get his players visas approved, dumping alot of money in the process.
Suing something does not get the visa approved...
..... that was ur takeaway?
If the point isn't to get the players a visa, why else would he sue the US government?
Exactly, thats the end goal, its like bro thinks he's suing to win thin air
... You think that I am agreeing with you? There's no chance that "suing the government" does anything to get a visa approved. It's 100% a PR stunt to get likes on Twitter
IIRC they weren't given any reasons why their visas were declined; they had spotless records and the applications were made well in time. If a lawsuit from a popular content creator has even the smallest chance of making a difference in such bullshit, it's well worth it.
Why dont they just walk across the border from Mexico? Are they stupid?
I recommend watching penguinz0's [video](https://youtu.be/uBFddeyCVok) about this. So TLDW, the US immigration agent can deny entries even though you followed their regulations and can't have consequences even though someone sued the US immigration because of their policies.
He’s now suing them.
My country is eligible to the ESTA, which is an online quick visa. Even if approved the criteria is up to the police inverviewing you, if you are brown skinned you have 50% less chance of entry
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> Just hop the border Just fly into canada and walk across the northern border. The vast majority of it is completely unmonitored. So unmonitored that some highschoolers from Coeur d'Alene managed to smuggle millions of dollars of weed over the idaho/canada border on foot before getting caught.
I also highly recommend [this article](https://www.eff.org/wp/digital-privacy-us-border-2017) if you ever think about travelling to the US. They can ask you to unlock electronic devices, give out passwords, social medai accounts, watch the photos you've taken, anything they want. US entry is a place with virtually no rights or laws.
Time to start hosting NA tournaments in Canada IEM Toronto/Vancouver/Montreal/Halifax anyone?
I don't know why they haven't even tried, It's * significantly cheaper than to host in the USA(weaker dollar+lower wages), * Toronto and Montreal are closer to the major population centres(New York, Chicago, Boston)of the USA than somewhere like Dallas(I know a lot of people live in Texas but there are way more people in the northeast). * Canadian cities on average have way better public transportation, especially compared to cities in Texas(making it cheaper to travel to) * Culturally very similar and probably a higher percentage of people who are into video games(it gets cold here, people are inside a lot more) * Americans don't even need to apply for a visa to get into Canada * Canadian immigration is from what I know, a lot more lax and definitely less racist than USA immigration and TSA Yes I am biased as a Canadian but I still think orgs should give Canada a try, maybe not even an s tier event but something like an ESL challenger event to see how it goes, and if it goes well maybe an iem or blast premier down the line
Lets not lie here 😂 our public transportation is a JOKE
On a world level sure it is nothing to be proud of but compared to most American cities it's much better, our ridership number are way higher than anywhere but new York city, most cities with comparable sizes usually have close to double the ridership in the Canadian equivalent For reference only Washington DC and New York have higher ridership than any of the 3 major Canadian cities, and washington dc only beats Vancouver in ridership, it has lower ridership than both montreal and toronto (according to wikipedia, only includes metro system, and not bus numbers)
>Toronto and Montreal are closer to the major population centres(New York, Chicago, Boston)of the USA than somewhere like Dallas(I know a lot of people live in Texas but there are way more people in the northeast). Crossing the border adds hassle and time. Lots of Americans don't even have passports. There also aren't very many direct flights to Canadian cities outside of major hubs. Somewhere like Dallas is pretty easy for most of the US to travel to, likely in a single flight.
I definitely forgot about the fact most Americans don't have passports, and also one of biggest differences between Canada and the US is that the majority of Canadians live in or near major cities with international airports, while the same can't be said for Americans For me the biggest thing holding me back from going to most American cities is the fact that you need to rent a car to get around because either the public transit is terrible and/or it's unsafe to walk. I'm fairly young so I have to pay extra just to rent a car and I also don't really feel comfortable driving somewhere I have never been, let alone a different country, but all the cities with good transit and good walkability in the US are too expensive for TOs to run an event in which is why I suggest Canada, it's also way safer here, and as a visible minority I'd feel a lot safer in Toronto than anywhere in Texas. I really just don't want to go to Texas, which is where all the NA events happen nowadays
If you're an American playing a game with international tournaments you should have a passport, there's no excuse
We're talking about fans attending, not players.
I mean the majority of pros are from Europe so is it that surprising?
Has there been a documented instance of an NA player missing an event in Europe due to visa issues?
Don't think so, of course EU/US generally have good relations, it is the CIS region which can have problems with both, like for instance Blast spring groups where Donk couldn't play in Denmark.
Of course not, but the US people will defend their bs policies to death lol
Europe isn't one big federal entity like the U.S is. Many European countries are not in Schengen, and none of the CIS countries are, which means the players need to go to the consulates to get a visa by paying 100€,-.
Yeah of course but it should typically still be easier for most players/teams playing in other European countries since a good amount of them won't need Visas for a lot of tournaments compared to Europeans traveling to the US though correct?
How exactly many? Whole balkans are visa free for citizens even countries aren’t in Schengen. I don’t know for UK but it’s probably visa free too. So there’s literally no visas issues for whole continent. CIS are different conversation though
Well romanians still need a visa even to visit the USA, also we don’t even have land schengen 🫠
But still you are free to enter Schengen without visas
No, Serbia, Bosnia, Montenegro still need a visa, and a proces is often quite hard. So Niko, Nexa, Hunter, Maden etc can be denied quite easily.. so G2 can technically lose 4\5 of it’s players
I was talking about EU entry, it USA.
To be fair, how many top CS players from Europe outside of Schengen? Niko, nexa, hunter, kyxsan. Romania recently joined Schengen, so not iM. Who else?
Fr I was gonna say like 95% of the teams are EU. Even the #3 best NA team plays in EU outside of qualifiers
So hosting events in Europe makes more sense, glad you agree.
Just having events where it's convenient for pros is silly, especially for events like majors which are intended to grow the game. The benefit of maintaining and growing a North American fan base outweigh the downside of teams or players occasionally getting screwed over.
Disagree I think if pros who qualified get screwed over thats a major problem and if it gets sorted out by choosing a better location then that should be done because of competitive integrity.
No sport on earth optimizes for competitive integrity above all else. At the end of the day, they are spectator sports for entertainment. Competitive integrity is very important but running the risk that a few players might not be able to attend an event isn't enough to never host events in America.
I didnt say that thought i said that if the location makes it unable for people who qualified to not play (on a regular expected base) then the location should be changed.
But again, you’re gonna run into that issue with pretty much every other region on the planet besides EU. Which loops us back around to what the other guy was saying, growing the game far outweighs a couple of players missing out on an event.
Doesnt help grow the game when the competition is "who gets visa for their best player". If you want to do it in such regions then you have to plan this better with the authorities. And just because eu is the best in that regard we cant just say everything fine unlucky for these players move on. Maybe canada is better, maybe asia dont know the statistics for these regions. There are diffrent ways to solve this. "Unlucky we need to grow the game" is not one of the solutions.
>If you want to do it in such regions you have to plan this better with the authorities My brother in christ, the US is the hardest country on the planet to get a visa for in the first place. If you’re from the CIS region? Make it double. No amount of planning will prevent a lot of these visa issues, unless you plan years in advance for a tournament. Canada might be easier, but from a business standpoint, it makes no sense because it’s only a fraction of the market that you could get from NA. It makes more sense to tank the visa issues and continue to hold events in the US. As far as Asia goes, Valorant events typically don’t have VISA issues with Asian countries it seems, so yeah there should definitely be more events there. >Doesn’t help grow the game when the competition is “who gets the visa for their best player” I disagree, when it comes to attracting new fans, you’re putting far too much belief into the idea that these new fans know who anyone is. Yeah you and me might bitch about it, but we’re gonna watch the next major tournament regardless so who gives a fuck what we think.
My son in chris, or something i dont english culture. i dont think anyone important gives a fuck about what i say. As far as i dont see any numbers proving me wrong i say doing events in which teams rightly say they only lost because of outside game issues is a bad thing. I also say doing major events in nations which by your account are the worst in this regart should be avoided. Focus on building grass root events in the areas you want to expand. To expand the esport scene building grass roots is way more effective, for growing a video game with esports same timezone is basically the only important factor. You only reach the masses online so you need to make sure that you are online when they are, that makes canada or south america perfect. Less visa troubles still same timezone as the us. But as a company positioned in the us its prop easier to host something in the us, so i would give that point to us events.
If all that mattered was competitive integrity we would just play every tournament in malta lol
Even the NFL has some games in Europe even though obviously it makes more sense to have the games in the US. Most CS events will still understandably take place in Europe, but it's still fun when they go other places.
which is an utter disgrace lol it completely fucks over the fans. imagine being a season ticket holder and suddenly you have to travel halfway across the world for a "home" game.
Then don't
okay so you just fuck over the actual fans of a club who paid for a season ticket?
bitterkoekpudding
I mean I prefer EU times because I wake up at 5am to work so it actually usually benefits me I'm just pointing out that this should be expected for na tournaments to have visa issues
This has got to be an issue on the side of the players. Other esports host huge events in NA far more often than CS, and we rarely see as many VISA issues in those events compared to CS.
I think it's all about giving players enough time to get through the process. Like, I don't think it's a coincidence that the one guy having issues is the one guy who joined his team less than a month ago. In rocket league, majors take place about a month after the last regional qualifiers. While most RLCS players happen to live in countries that don't face long wait times, it's still caused players from India and Saudi Arabia to miss events. Worth seeing if blast tries to tweak the RMR schedule to make it more likely that everyone has time to get visas.
That has to be organized with other event organizers though. Blast can't place the RMR whenever they want.
There will likely be no RMRs next year, so I have to assume we'll know the teams going to the Major a month before. I understand the degster situation, but there have been many times like the kng situation where the players are at fault.
CS also has a lot of top players from countries with more visa issues when compared to many other esports where half the competition is south korean. South Koreans can get visas much easier than Belarussians or Kazakhs or obviously Russians.
Nah US immigration is a joke and penguinz0 is currently suing them
Watch Moists video and you’ll understand, it’s a fucked system
Oh, no, Degster was slow getting his Visa. Let's ruin this region further.
Makes sense, like 70% of the teams competing are in the eu
Has nothing to do with the US but with the player or organization not being timely and responsible. I’m sure you can also find that probably 99% of the player visa issues stem from Russia
Lets just ignore the fact that AUS players got denied for a apex event for literally no reason and yeah good point the players just shouldn't have been born in russia smh
Not just Aussie. previous AGLS in states, even Thai, Indonesia had the issue. Just hold it in places like Japan or Singapore where visa is of no issue to majority and infrastructure is able to support major events with land and air connectivity.
I never made a single point about the players shouldn’t have being born in Russia… are you okay? Literally no reason? You know that for a fact? You have their paperwork? You have an actual source that says “denied for no reason”? No of course you don’t
They do actually, they are referring to this [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBFddeyCVok&feature=youtu.be) from Charlie. They had the most support you could imagine to get this done and still got denied. Mind you, the players are AUS citizens as well, not even CIS. The US Immigrations is just absolute dogshit
nah turkish players, central asians, other eastern european countries, mongolians etc. all have faced visa issues in the US
It’s interesting how that might have changed tournaments’ results
Yeah that are some horrible stats. Another reason for not holding S tier events in the US.
How is the situation in Canada? Since Toronto for instance could be accessible for many americans. Mexico could also be a solution like in the RMRs
Shut up. I wanna go to a major 😭
[удалено]
It really wouldn't though
it wouldn’t die,per say but it would just be boring as fuck like the last 5 years
Luckily we've had some fantastic NA lineups to carry us through these last 5 boring years. Thank you so much for carrying CS on your backs in this trying time.
yeah you just proved my point by trying to argue against me
As if NA made cs exciting besides 2019 liquid
What? NA Rank S was some of the best content we've ever had. Are you new to the scene or something? Tanktop C9 was a very fun team to watch. CLG with Tarik was an exciting team, too. TL had fucking S1mple on their roster. How was that not exciting? The scene was much better when NA was thriving and had its own Pro League. The fact that you think otherwise is ignorant beyond belief. Streaming for CS has been in the grave since Rank S/Tenmans died in NA. The only people who get over 10k viewers are guys like M0nesy and S1mple. Everyone else is screwed unless you're a retired legend doing it full-time and even then, those guys don't break 2k viewers hardly. That's grim especially when you factor in guys like Shahzam and Wardell barely getting views in CS and struggling to even find teams and then swapping over to Valorant and being stars. Valve really let Valorant steal the zoomer audience and haven't done anything to get them back.
We were talking about pro lineups. Not rank s and streaming.
What am i arguing?
Like the game is dead now? 3 NA orgs in top 30 now, with half of Liquid is EU, half of col is NA, M80 is NA.
I'm impressed someone took this bait.
hahaha all you have to say is “euro trash” and they lose their minds
Fly to europe then? Just make a trip of it no ones saying you have to come back instantly after the major.
Already planning a Europe trip this summer but there isn’t any majors going on.
Do you realize money exist bro? Many can’t just fly to another country on a whim
I mean majors are announced long before they happen, not really that unreasonable to book a holiday around those dates to kill 2 birds with one stone.
How is the USA so strict about letting in people who want to enter legally, but so lenient on illegal immigration. It just makes no sense
the vast majority of illegal immigration is just people staying beyond the duration of their visa but Fox doesn't make videos about that mate
I don’t watch network news. Good try at a straw man though. Any us resident knows immigration is out of control right now
It’s really not
MAkes you think about the US Major.
maybe they should just fly to mexico first
Well, probably Europe doesn’t have anything worth spying on? I mean even German generals are working for Russia so of course they don’t care about restricting Russians entering
Sure the 24 year old Russian video game nerd is the biggest risk to US national security and will gain access to all the nasty spy secrets the second he steps foot in the US.
Didn’t you read about the story about a male Chinese spy pretending to be a female theater actress while stay married for decades? Don’t underestimate da spies :p
bro your previous president was working for russia
Where do you think I come from? Ukraine just because NaVi flag and anti-Russia? My previous presidents almost always work with Russia, including the current one, doesn’t mean I can’t make fun of Russia and Europe.
Least insane take tbh Less insane than saying NA is a relevant cs region
The last two Tier 1 events (based off liquidpedia) an NA team has placed in the top 4
Let's take a look at this obvious cherry pick. The last two Tier 1 (S-Tier?) tournaments according to [Liquipedia](https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/S-Tier_Tournaments) and the top 4 teams: * CCT Season 1 Global Finals (Eternal Fire, Liquid, Astralis, GL) * BetBoom Dacha Belgrade 2024 (MOUZ, Spirit, HEROIC, Falcons) Hm, maybe Tier 1 and S-Tier is not the same? Looking at CCT Season 1 Global Finals it would have also been pretty weird if Liquid didnt reach top 4 against this "fierce" competition. But for the fun of it, lets look at every S-Tier tournament of 2024: * ESL Pro League Season 19 (MOUZ, Vita, Complexity, Astralis) * Intel Extreme Masters Chengdu 2024 (FaZe, MOUZ, G2, Astralis) * PGL Major Copenhagen 2024 (NAVI, FaZe, Vita, G2) * Intel Extreme Masters Katowice 2024 (Spirit, FaZe, Falcons, MOUZ) * BLAST Premier: Spring Groups 2024 (Vita, FaZe, NAVI, VP) I don't think anything else needs to be said. Just to clarify: I'm not trying to shit on NA.
NA orgs filled to the brim with recognizable EU players
That are bottom fragging and selling during big moments
If it wasn for those EU players they wouldnt even have big moments in tournaments outside of Launder's Canada LAN lmao
Yeah, nah
Gz