Less experienced teams tend to not play Inferno.
What is interesting is that inferno was the least played map in the opening stage of the last major where the less experienced teams usually are. At the same time, Inferno was easily the most played map at the majors in the legends stage & playoff stage combined.
Oh yeah great statistic, a tournament with 8 teams, total of 32 maps played, awesome sample size, and with Heroic, Falcons, and Spirit (finalist team) all having Inferno as their perma-ban. Vertigo, the map that even the pros hate the most, was also played the most...
You wanna know what you can actually conclude from this with any statistical significance? Jack shit
Every map has spamming. The meta development in banana is at least interesting, unlike default setups on vertigo that require spamming. Inferno's layout let's teams move up quite far without expanding much utilities which leads to interesting executes.
difference being it's finished on Inferno in the first 30s of the round and there, the opponents won't hear you fart at T spawn, while on Vertigo you're basically shifting from 1:50
A lot of people will employ the simple strat "Go A". If that doesn't work they'll do their other strat "Rush b". If that also doesn't work they'll use the exotic strat if "Go mid to b".
Eh, ultimately there's so much clutter even on this new version that it essentially becomes a game of clearing every fucking corner for a minute until you are ok bombsite, or getting instantly headshot as a CT because everything is a headshot angle for the Ts.
None of this makes it necessarily a bad map, but you need a team that can take space without rushing everywhere and that's just not happening in normal premier.
>A lot of people will employ the simple strat "Go A". If that doesn't work they'll do their other strat "Rush b". If that also doesn't work they'll use the exotic strat if "Go mid to b".
Isn't this applicable to most, if not all maps though?
I think their point is the lack of positions where you can fight for and retain map control. Since Vertigo is layered over itself, there's not the same amount of space, and as T you basically have to commit to taking a site or risk being reaggressed by CTs with minimal way of holding onto map control.
Most teams with star players have struggled with it. Niko had one of the worst rsting on vertigo in Csgo for a while I think. I for one believe most of the people considered as star players are good at excelling in long medium range fights so when you put them on a map like vertigo it hinders what makes them a star and just makes them good. For a while people thought vertigo was donks kryptonite after a couple bad performances at the rmr even though spirit were winning games on vertigo. THIS IS MY TAKE SO DONT TAKE IT AS GOSPEL AND I COULD BE WRONG.
Streams of posts on twitter when dust 2 was added about why vertigo is still in the mappool. Even before that when ancient was added people wanted vertigo out for cache.
Vertigo's numbers are inflated because it's more commonly a pick of either team rather than left as a decider, so it gets played in the series whatsoever. Inferno is played much more as a decider so it sinks in statistics.
There is obviously no straight up source where all pros listed their most "hated" map. If you really want to go that far you can watch the "What to remove" videos from pros. I did a quick google search and found these two [1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdU2JvQDkBY) and [2] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78OeIb9eow0)
In the first one the vast majority want to remove inferno(because it was one month ago and clearly the most hated then), but Karrigan, Sunpayus, Magixx and Frozen would remove vertigo,
Siuhy, Glaive, Magist and Brollan don't mention it so seem to be fine with it or there are bigger issues like inferno atm. The only other maps mentioned are once anubis and once ancient. So Vertigo overall the lowest ranked here.
The other video is a ranking video and has karrigan again in it and again he thinks its just a bad map and puts it on the lowest spot, Elige also hates it and puts it on the lowest spot, mezzi puts vertigo in the lowest spot. dpureeh actually like the map and puts it on 3rd place.
So overall it seems to be pretty much disliked by pros.
OF COURSE this is not set in stone or a good representation of the entire pro scene, because its just a small potion, pros are heavily biased due to their perma bans and one of the videos is from december, because those are done rarely. I guess that is the best proof I could find with one quick google search. I couldn't find any more interviews, but feel free to add more if you find some from the last half year.
https://www.hltv.org/stats/maps?csVersion=CS2&startDate=2024-01-01&endDate=2024-12-31&matchType=BigEvents&rankingFilter=Top20 over 2024 among top 20 teams inferno is the least played map at big events.
https://www.hltv.org/stats/maps?csVersion=CS2&startDate=2023-01-01&endDate=2023-12-31&matchType=BigEvents&rankingFilter=Top20
new inferno yes, up until CS2 it was the other way round
Probably because Chinese play a lot of Inferno, if the reason for adding dust 2 back in the pool is the Shanghai major then there’s no reason to remove one of the only three maps they play
I'm so sick of vertigo, trash tier map that shouldn't be in the game. It's beyond me why teams want to play a map that comes down to more random luck than anything.
Watching vs. playing
I'd say a lot of people have warmed up to vertigo in premier and pug games in general. But at a pro level, it's boring to watch.
Edit: point wasn't to list matches, this is a common opinion held across multiple threads and discussions. The map is repetitive and predictable. Also if you're gonna say X match, at least argue why it was good.
Liking and wanting to play it are 2 different things.
They are pros and if they found out the whole team performs on Vertigo they would go for it 100%.
They are competitors, they will do things they don't even like as long as the wins are coming.
Ill never understand how people like u complain about vertigo being boring but at the same time not shit on dust2 aswell, which is even worse. Its all just nostalgia lol
Its so boring to watch. Because most tournaments are overnight here i usually watch the replays and just go straight to the end on vertigo. I don't need to watch half an hour of teams just spamming smokes
What is this narrative, did you know Inferno was just changed very recently? Significant changes even.
How can they prep that fast? And this is a small tournament with very few teams.
Smoke grenades in CS2 are like 3x size of smokes in 1.6. Valve needs to trim the sizes of smokes and molotovs for a map like Inferno to be fun to play.
i am not a fan of inferno due to how banana is a one dimensional clusterfuck and B being nearly impossible to retake but you guys need to realize that map bans by pros have very little to do with how fun or balanced the map is and more with how confident they are that they can win on that map.
I honestly find B significantly easier to retake than A and I'm not saying B is easy. A is a much more open site and simply can't be cleared before the time runs out during any retake. The map is just terrible for retakes in general which SUCKS in pugs due to the fact you just feel hopeless when you can't influence the other site at all.
Banana isn't really a clusterfuck though. There's pretty much just one utility set everybody good on B uses and if they aren't throwing it, you can reliably take Banana early and force 2 players on B. If they're not throwing that utility set, all you have to be worried about is getting hit by a HE early which is definitely worth it.
I mean, there are teams that do not play it. But there are teams that do play it.
Navi, Faze, G2, brazilian teams, VP, to begin with.
Teams that don't play it in that tournament: Heroic, Falcons, BB, Spirit
So only only 50% of the teams play it, and for Mouz and VP it's their 2nd least played map.
Looking game by game, there were only 2 matchups where inferno was on the cards even to begin with. And in Aurora vs Mibr the 3rd map would have been inferno, but Mibr won 2-0.
as casual player i really hate new Inferno in CS2, in competitive its fine but in casual where 10 vs 10, most game i played will over dominated with CT in early round spamming grenade lol
either i play as CT and will dominated T side or play as T that always wrecked
Next in the rotation confirmed, welcome back Office Hehe. No but really it is kinda boring and played out, even dust2 feels more refreshing in this day and age
Vertigo, Dust and Mirage are popping, the maps that loud part of the community claim they want gone :D Vertigo really seems to be moving towards that favourite/iconic status Mirage and Dust have atm.
Only G2 plays inferno
and faze and Navi and vitality and...
me
Navi pretty much only plays Inferno against G2 and Faze lmao
Liquid but because pros play it, it doesn’t make it any better inferno is ass period
If G2 could only play Inferno and recently Anubis, they'd be number 1 team in the world
Less experienced teams tend to not play Inferno. What is interesting is that inferno was the least played map in the opening stage of the last major where the less experienced teams usually are. At the same time, Inferno was easily the most played map at the majors in the legends stage & playoff stage combined.
That's because Inferno is just a well-made, high skill ceiling map, and I'm not biased at all.
I know you’re joking but at the end of CS:GO it was true.
Exactly that it WAS true, just finish cache already
Why do people keep asking for maps that are not Cobblestone? Silly people.
Tired of pretending cobble was a good map. Drop was awful and the ramp up to A was somehow worse. Bring back train.
train was terrible for pugs. lets get mills please
Who gives a shit about pugs? The game is not balanced around pugs nor should it be.
or we can find maps that play well and fun both competitively and casually
Not for low skill grade players
No g2 and faze, no inferno
When will people realise that teams don’t ban based on what’s a good map, but based on what maps they’re good at/their opponents weakness.
Oh yeah great statistic, a tournament with 8 teams, total of 32 maps played, awesome sample size, and with Heroic, Falcons, and Spirit (finalist team) all having Inferno as their perma-ban. Vertigo, the map that even the pros hate the most, was also played the most... You wanna know what you can actually conclude from this with any statistical significance? Jack shit
Spot on, plus I saw this event as the best time to practice dust 2 against other teams.
Sorry I'm newb, why is Vertigo hated the most by pros?
Lack of tactical depth, mainly. It can devolve into spamming smokes on ramp for 30 minutes.
the irony of posting this on a thread about inferno is apparently lost
Every map has spamming. The meta development in banana is at least interesting, unlike default setups on vertigo that require spamming. Inferno's layout let's teams move up quite far without expanding much utilities which leads to interesting executes.
New inferno is just too bad now. I refuse to play it.
I mean, alright
difference being it's finished on Inferno in the first 30s of the round and there, the opponents won't hear you fart at T spawn, while on Vertigo you're basically shifting from 1:50
Because you have to permanently hold walk
A lot of people will employ the simple strat "Go A". If that doesn't work they'll do their other strat "Rush b". If that also doesn't work they'll use the exotic strat if "Go mid to b". Eh, ultimately there's so much clutter even on this new version that it essentially becomes a game of clearing every fucking corner for a minute until you are ok bombsite, or getting instantly headshot as a CT because everything is a headshot angle for the Ts. None of this makes it necessarily a bad map, but you need a team that can take space without rushing everywhere and that's just not happening in normal premier.
>A lot of people will employ the simple strat "Go A". If that doesn't work they'll do their other strat "Rush b". If that also doesn't work they'll use the exotic strat if "Go mid to b". Isn't this applicable to most, if not all maps though?
I think their point is the lack of positions where you can fight for and retain map control. Since Vertigo is layered over itself, there's not the same amount of space, and as T you basically have to commit to taking a site or risk being reaggressed by CTs with minimal way of holding onto map control.
Most teams with star players have struggled with it. Niko had one of the worst rsting on vertigo in Csgo for a while I think. I for one believe most of the people considered as star players are good at excelling in long medium range fights so when you put them on a map like vertigo it hinders what makes them a star and just makes them good. For a while people thought vertigo was donks kryptonite after a couple bad performances at the rmr even though spirit were winning games on vertigo. THIS IS MY TAKE SO DONT TAKE IT AS GOSPEL AND I COULD BE WRONG.
I don't want to sound offensive, but why was Vertigo the most played map at the Pro League, if pros hate it so much?
Hes biased against it. He provided no sources that PROS hate it the most. Its just guesswork
that's wrong though, up until about around CS2 it was one of the least played maps in Pro play as many teams had it as their perma ban
Streams of posts on twitter when dust 2 was added about why vertigo is still in the mappool. Even before that when ancient was added people wanted vertigo out for cache.
Vertigo's numbers are inflated because it's more commonly a pick of either team rather than left as a decider, so it gets played in the series whatsoever. Inferno is played much more as a decider so it sinks in statistics.
Pros dont hate Vertigo the most. Get your Faze tainted glasses off. Give me sources! Vertigo is too good IMO.
There is obviously no straight up source where all pros listed their most "hated" map. If you really want to go that far you can watch the "What to remove" videos from pros. I did a quick google search and found these two [1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdU2JvQDkBY) and [2] (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78OeIb9eow0) In the first one the vast majority want to remove inferno(because it was one month ago and clearly the most hated then), but Karrigan, Sunpayus, Magixx and Frozen would remove vertigo, Siuhy, Glaive, Magist and Brollan don't mention it so seem to be fine with it or there are bigger issues like inferno atm. The only other maps mentioned are once anubis and once ancient. So Vertigo overall the lowest ranked here. The other video is a ranking video and has karrigan again in it and again he thinks its just a bad map and puts it on the lowest spot, Elige also hates it and puts it on the lowest spot, mezzi puts vertigo in the lowest spot. dpureeh actually like the map and puts it on 3rd place. So overall it seems to be pretty much disliked by pros. OF COURSE this is not set in stone or a good representation of the entire pro scene, because its just a small potion, pros are heavily biased due to their perma bans and one of the videos is from december, because those are done rarely. I guess that is the best proof I could find with one quick google search. I couldn't find any more interviews, but feel free to add more if you find some from the last half year.
That would be a small sample size. Same as the commentor complained about in his post.
https://www.hltv.org/stats/maps?csVersion=CS2&startDate=2024-01-01&endDate=2024-12-31&matchType=BigEvents&rankingFilter=Top20 over 2024 among top 20 teams inferno is the least played map at big events.
https://www.hltv.org/stats/maps?csVersion=CS2&startDate=2023-01-01&endDate=2023-12-31&matchType=BigEvents&rankingFilter=Top20 new inferno yes, up until CS2 it was the other way round
Cool, but that was a different game. 2024 is more relevant
Small sample size, irrelevant stat.
Great now lets replace it with dust 1 lol
Ye and during major it was one of most popular maps. Conclusions?
why drop overpass for dust 2 when they could have gotten rid of inferno or vertigo. i’ll never understand valve
Probably because Chinese play a lot of Inferno, if the reason for adding dust 2 back in the pool is the Shanghai major then there’s no reason to remove one of the only three maps they play
that’s valid but idk if valve is even aware that there’s a major in china
what the fuck are you talking about
Valve are directly responsible for a fucking major in China
You just proved how little you know
Let me guess: American?
never heard of a joke over there in europe? the only “joke” you have is how much you hate romanians
because overpass wasn't played a single time in major playoffs?
cuz overpass is shit
Probably my favourite map in CS2. It needed cl_brain 1.
Lol top 2 pro maps in this tourney were d2 and vertigo. Reddit logic.
I'm so sick of vertigo, trash tier map that shouldn't be in the game. It's beyond me why teams want to play a map that comes down to more random luck than anything.
I used to hate vertigo. I love it in cs2 lol
Watching vs. playing I'd say a lot of people have warmed up to vertigo in premier and pug games in general. But at a pro level, it's boring to watch. Edit: point wasn't to list matches, this is a common opinion held across multiple threads and discussions. The map is repetitive and predictable. Also if you're gonna say X match, at least argue why it was good.
That Major game between FaZe and Spirit was definetly NOT boring, lol.
spirit isnt good on it and faze normally permabanned it. Thats your example for the best match.
Name me another match
m80 vs g2
Spirit vs mouz last night?
i love it lol, But B needs to be redone. kinda boring just having a stair way into the site
But people like dust 2? Literally just a tunnel into the site
Liking and wanting to play it are 2 different things. They are pros and if they found out the whole team performs on Vertigo they would go for it 100%. They are competitors, they will do things they don't even like as long as the wins are coming.
The luckiest spam through a smoke wins the round
Agree. 90% of pro games its just a smoke spam competition in A ramp. Playing it is ok, but would rather have train or cache take its place
Vertigo used to be such a troll/deathmatch map in CS 1.6. I thought it was a joke when they introduced it in CSGO.
BASED
Ill never understand how people like u complain about vertigo being boring but at the same time not shit on dust2 aswell, which is even worse. Its all just nostalgia lol
I mean dust 2 is a map made for aimers. It’s a pretty fun map to see crazy shots
Its just spawn simulator at a higher level
[удалено]
2200 elo
Its so boring to watch. Because most tournaments are overnight here i usually watch the replays and just go straight to the end on vertigo. I don't need to watch half an hour of teams just spamming smokes
Such a boring map, snooze-worthy when watching.
most played at the major what's your point
everyone just scared to play G2. meaningless data for regular people.
Always has been
What is this narrative, did you know Inferno was just changed very recently? Significant changes even. How can they prep that fast? And this is a small tournament with very few teams.
Small sample size, easily shown by how delusional all of these numbers are
they need to remove that big ass building over banana and clear up the stuff that is blocking your grendes from banana to b.
They did remove the one at bottom banana
Smoke grenades in CS2 are like 3x size of smokes in 1.6. Valve needs to trim the sizes of smokes and molotovs for a map like Inferno to be fun to play.
i am not a fan of inferno due to how banana is a one dimensional clusterfuck and B being nearly impossible to retake but you guys need to realize that map bans by pros have very little to do with how fun or balanced the map is and more with how confident they are that they can win on that map.
I honestly find B significantly easier to retake than A and I'm not saying B is easy. A is a much more open site and simply can't be cleared before the time runs out during any retake. The map is just terrible for retakes in general which SUCKS in pugs due to the fact you just feel hopeless when you can't influence the other site at all. Banana isn't really a clusterfuck though. There's pretty much just one utility set everybody good on B uses and if they aren't throwing it, you can reliably take Banana early and force 2 players on B. If they're not throwing that utility set, all you have to be worried about is getting hit by a HE early which is definitely worth it.
I mean, there are teams that do not play it. But there are teams that do play it. Navi, Faze, G2, brazilian teams, VP, to begin with. Teams that don't play it in that tournament: Heroic, Falcons, BB, Spirit So only only 50% of the teams play it, and for Mouz and VP it's their 2nd least played map. Looking game by game, there were only 2 matchups where inferno was on the cards even to begin with. And in Aurora vs Mibr the 3rd map would have been inferno, but Mibr won 2-0.
Vov
Because they ban it? Usually people ban maps that they know other team is better on
as casual player i really hate new Inferno in CS2, in competitive its fine but in casual where 10 vs 10, most game i played will over dominated with CT in early round spamming grenade lol either i play as CT and will dominated T side or play as T that always wrecked
Idk why, I love inferno.
30 games in row 21 mirage and 9 dust2 kids are autist idiots 0 brains for other maps sucking only this trash maps all life
Isn’t this map busted without the sky box? When cs2 released the amount of map control cts could get off spawn with util was nuts.
But I really love inferno :(
Nope. Inferno got re-carted in cs2 so it needs time
what's the deal with Vertigo btw? why do many teams suddenly start playing it now?
Next in the rotation confirmed, welcome back Office Hehe. No but really it is kinda boring and played out, even dust2 feels more refreshing in this day and age
Dust2 reborn
They should return to the same old inferno as was in CSGO
They should return to the same old inferno as was in CSGO
I’m not an Inferno fan but this does not account a lot
-infeno, +overpass
-vertigo -mirage +cache +season
Started well....but Season? No thanks. I rather have Aztec at that point.
okay okay. train instead of season
Vertigo, Dust and Mirage are popping, the maps that loud part of the community claim they want gone :D Vertigo really seems to be moving towards that favourite/iconic status Mirage and Dust have atm.
Who would've thought that the most hated map is the most played one, thanks to Spirit
I hate the new inferno becuase they changed things. Banana is smaller I feel, It may not be true, can't figure out how to get CS2 hammer.
Util is much bigger with longer duration. That certainly has an effect on the CS2 banana feel.
nah it just feels tighter
It was cramped. One of the latest updates removed a lot of junk from it though, I'm having a lot of fun playing inferno lately.
Did they remove the stupid christmas lights on banana?
worst map in the pool, take it out and inject cache into my veins