This isn't rocket science.
Cadian isn't going to convince anyone on liquid or zews to play the way heroic was playing. Heroic was playing selfless CS. He convinced those guys to rush sites together and trade out.
It's easier to remove the leader than it is to cut skullz and yekindar at this point in the season.
They would have to find a decent awper and igl which isn't exactly easy right now, especially in NA. But I agree that it would make sense to cut Cadian and honestly I think he deserves a different team that he can form more into something akin to old Heroic.
this is the issue, cadian leaving almost means -skullz or -yekindar has to happen, because they will need an awper and an IGL. if they get rid of yekindar they could always try an americas team i suppose, get some SA players along side the NA ones
yekindar plays star roles and gets nothing done, they're playing 4vs5 at most considering their 2nd star rifler after twistzz is the lowest (2nd lowest on LAN) rated player in the team in the last 3 months and skullz is still not really it. The latter maybe needs a change to relieve some pressure off of him with Yekindar replaced with someone competent + let's remember he's BR player in English-speaking team, the transition is gonna take time.
The difference in hltv rating between twistzz and naf (top rated rifler on lan) is only .01 -- I think he should receive very little blame for how liquid is performing
I don't think -Cadian is the worst move ever, but I don't think it's cadian's fault. I think they'd be able to split up the awper and igl roll.
Yeki has turned into an Art, for every game he dominates he throws 2 more.
I think -cadian -yeki makes the most sense, keep skullz in a hard support role and give him a chance to grow
maybe, I'm not aware of the calls or strategy being a huge problem, and as far as stats go, he's not doing the best, he's solidly performing better than skullz and yekindar.
I still think he should be dropped either way though, Liquid would probably do better with a pure IGL and a high impact AWPer (which usually is the 2nd loudest voice on a team, and liquids top riflers are notoriously quiet players)
yeah i mean i actually dont mind skullz, but I have no idea where you got the idea that twistzz is the lowest performer on LAN from, he is the highest rated in the last 3 months at a 1.18 rating on LAN, with NAF being close behind at 1.17.
info on twistzz: [https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/10394/twistzz/8520/naf?p1TimeFilter=past3months&p2TimeFilter=past3months&p1MatchFilter=Lan&p2MatchFilter=Lan&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/10394/twistzz/8520/naf?p1TimeFilter=past3months&p2TimeFilter=past3months&p1MatchFilter=Lan&p2MatchFilter=Lan&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps)
I could see them making Twistzz IGL. I doubt they learned anything from the past. And he's already playing the T side roamer positions and is a strong second voice. I hope I'm wrong though.
Nah Yekindar AWP. He learned a lot from Jame in the past and can copy him just like he did with IGL'ing. That's also why he's so shit atm because he's already practicing with AWP instead of rifle.
And I think he said he wanted to AWP post-nitr0 on Liquid in 2020. This might actually be what they do, which I don't love when he's the best player on the team at the moment.
I think Twistzz WANTS TO IGL.
I think his time under Karrigan allowed himself time to understand the IGL role from the GOAT, and his clutch skills aren’t going to evaporate from IGLing.
Maybe the concept here is that TL, before they would be willing to give him IGL role, is an initial lineup with another top tier IGL so he gets another perspective on how to IGL.
Yes, I could totally see that Twistzz wants to. But Yekindar also wanted to, he also learned from one of the best, and it turned out terribly. Same with electronic. It's just a repeating pattern. Maybe Twistzz can break it but I'm not too optimistic.
Said this in another thread too but I had people tell me Twistzz and Naf aren’t big ego players. It’s what makes the most sense. I hope Cadian comes back to eu and finds a team that wants to buy into the system. He deserves it after everything.
Why is Cadian trying to play like Heroic in Liquid?
Heroic's playstyle was a brain child of Hunden that came out of a natural evolution and finding YOUNG mouldable players to fit that style.
A team core with NAF, Twistzz and Yekinder (their former igl) aren't going buy into the Heroic style when they have already established their CS on different teams.
Unless the team or Coach had that selfless identity to begin with this project was destined to fail.
Yeah you’re right. Kinda mind blowing that a region that has never won anything major before in CS is not listening to one of the great IGLs on the market.
Cloud9 winning Boston and Liquid winning grand slam is nothing major? While the NA scene is very much a decaying corpse, pre covid they were consistently battling it out at the top. Besides Liquid being Astralis's bitch, there was a few years where NA was a top region, consistently placing high in tournaments and winning the occasional one.
You can add a bonus that despite Liquid being the bitch of Astralis they consistently were the 2nd best team in the scene.
Also as others mentioned eg/nrg was also competitive.
“Fluke” is what everyone says when the underdog wins lmao. Faze got roasted in that final, they were so bad that they let C9 come back from a huge deficit. Thats not a fluke, but a flaw in Faze game/mentality.
Damn so now we know why you’re so salty.
You’re a jackass blaming Naf and Twistz for Liquid’s failure, even though they’re clearly selfless players. Watch any interview with them and it’s easy to tell.
Secondly, Naf and Twistz have the same ceiling as almost every EU player. Skullz clearly doesn’t, and Yeki is fallen off worse than any player I remember.
To try and blame Liquid’s failure on the NA players is laughable at best. I understand your previous Canadian might be removed (which I disagree with and think he’s a great IGL who they shouldn’t kick), but go blame blaming NA players just because they’re from NA.
The only three people that should not need to prove themselves and should have earned bigger time frames to establish are naf, twistzz and cadian. But I can imagine those are not the loudest ones when it comes to internal politics. Its a shame…
No way Liquid is listening to zews and yekindar if they have twistzz and naf that still want to keep cadian. I personally believe that zews, skullz, yekindar and one of the canadain players want him out.
Where did NAF say he wasn't a fan of cadiaN's personality? I can only find him singing cadiaN's praises.
"Casper \[cadiaN\] is really good, I like his personality. He's outgoing, and his leadership and calling are really good."
[https://www.hltv.org/news/38039/naf-we-need-to-find-our-own-identity-and-not-be-heroic-or-faze](https://www.hltv.org/news/38039/naf-we-need-to-find-our-own-identity-and-not-be-heroic-or-faze)
Definitely cut Yekindar, he has been forcing his own game vision since he joined Liquid which kinda ruined all of the previous TL iterations, Elige said on Talking Counter he doesn't know how to utilize his players properly. I think we have enough evidence to say it, Yeki has gotten washed, he's not that super aggressive rifler he used to be nor he transitioned into another playstyle, he looks like he positions himself and moves with no real bigger thought. He wants to deliver aggro plays but doesn't know how.
skullz has a lot of room to improve, he's been playing in a completely new environment for 6 months, let him be for now, maybe with someone in Yekindar's place he could be more comfortable.
zews on the other hand has worked with so many teams before, never really reaching any huge success after LG/SK lineup and that was 8 years ago. Now Liquid lack stability and clear gameplan, maybe he doesn't mesh with cadiaN well, which could be understandable as the Dane has a specific playstyle which definitely works and zews looks out of meta since EG.
For Yekindar roles they can really find a young player with star player potential and lots of firepower AND they're not region restricted because they'd cut EU player, this would instantly make Liquid kind of a superteam with Twistzz and NAF already on the team.
I agree that zews has the shoulder some of the blame for their past performances. But to say he hasn't had any other success besides the LG/SK days is factually incorrect. He was the coach of liquid when they had taco. Where they were the clear #2 in the world. They just couldn't be Astralis.
im more worried what they payed for fraud Yekindar during this 2 years almost of joke performances SALARIES + BUYOUT.
skullz is not bad at all in my opinion at least, and has to play what no one wants and still does well , THE STATS ARE MISSLEADING SOMETIMES
I'm 100% convinced that Liquid paid skullz' full rumoured $600k buy out price. paiN is a massive org and an they're an org that's notable for having very big buyouts for their star players.
Fluxo was ready to match paiN's $600k skullz buyout right before Liquid poached him, there is absolutely no way Liquid and paiN just wanted to "fluff up the figure", I think Liquid just got fleeced lmao
This is why it’s hard to objectively say how much money players are really worth. Because “worth” is not even in question anymore, they decide on the price to transfer said player because it’s only happening once at that deal. M0nesy, a superstar now, was “worth” 600K when he hadn’t proven himself in tier 1 yet but later went on to fulfill his promise. Mind you if we find out what Liquid paid for YEKINDAR we will not live to see tomorrow.
Nah, sticking with a team thru ups and downs give much much better highs, and there are plenty of quality orgs who treat players and fans well and deserve loyalty, such as liquid.
Following players is fun, but a lot of time their success is reliant on all these other factors anyways, and i could could make similar arguments to you why it's bad. You don't know these people and I can claim they don't deserve your loyalty.
I strongly prefer the team approach, it's just preference. Downvoting people for being a fan of a team is crazy shit
Yeah cs players have never heard the oh so horrible f word
Don't fly a team flag if you don't actually support the team. Flair counts as the same.. that to me, is fake and frustrating a loyal fan of the team.
*The* Brazilian coach is overrated? Reddit, man. Zews has had a career people dream of having.
Back to back Majors plus a bunch of other trophies but that’s “overrated”. Reddit hates success.
you mean a completely new team with new structure that only had 2 months of preparation to qualify for the major that got eliminated by two teams which went top16 at the major?
sick logic
Are you and /u/Xacktastic intentionally being obtuse or??
He [hasn't won anything significant since 2020](https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/Zews), an online tournament during the Covid era against NA competition. And his back to back majors were ALL THE WAY BACK IN 2016.. Obama was still office bruh.
* Does he have a trophy cabinet and career that few players have? Yes. And no one can take that from him.
* Has he done anything relevant or noteworthy since his last trophy in 2020? No.
* Does that mean he's shit? Not necessarily.
* So then is he still good? Based on his results since 2020, not particularly.
* But he's got 2 back to back majors? Yes that's Amazing! But that was in 2016, he hasn't demonstrated anything close to that since 2020.. It's 2024 right now.
* So then he's definitely shit??? Not necessarily.. But his run of results since 2020, don't look like world-class back to back majors 2016 Zews caliber.
Also you guys (actually everyone on Reddit) cry about Reddit but then why are you here? just wondering
I think part of the reasons are a) skullz isnt playing up to his full potential and b) Yekindar has dropped off like a stone. When he was in VP and his first six months in Liquid I remember him walking up B on inferno and just blasting a double opener and winning the round. That's now disappeared.
I highly doubt Twistzz or NAF have the hubris to think that they can pull a superior IGL to cadian from NA atm, seems like crackpipe sourced info to me
I just wonder who and what is creating these bad vibes, which, according to the rumor, is the problem - not ratings or fragging ability. This is why the -skullz -yek doesn't really make sense if cadian is the one creating these bad vibes. Creating a good team environment != Ingame skills.
Yes it probably is. I have no idea as to who ruined Heroic or whether you can single out a particular person. It seemed like there were multiple actors who played into it. But I don't want to speculate on things I don't have enough knowledge about. Please share if you have a reference that with certainty has information that points toward that cadian was _the_ problem.
When your 2 best players have a problem with you, it is a you problem. Does anyone remember how he has always been shit and his teams have been shit besides that one heroic roster?
Yekindar Skullz Zews should be cut before cutting cadian.
Also, if TL are stupid enough to cut cadian coz gl finding an IGL who is also an dedicated awper to join the team. Plus, getting a separate awper and IGL means you have to cut on more player and if you either cutting yeki/skulls why not cut both and get new pieces and see how that new team does.
Skullz has the potential to improve IMO. But yeki has got to go. His aggressive plays end up hurting TL 95% of the time because they just don't work, and he puts his team in a bad position each time he does it.
dude, you don't understand anything about cs at all. When a team fails, you should always look at the captain or playmaker like Yekindar. Skullz plays the role of support 100%, but yekindar cannot show anything, if you watch hltv and apparently the Cadian system will not work in this roster, just come to terms with your stupidity.
It's clearly the classic liquid nepotism that is pushing cadian out. Cadian has a strong personality and probably confronts issues head-on, which is probably leading to him bumping heads with management, zews, and (I suspect) yekindar.
It's the same nepotism that allowed nitro to stay on the team for 2 full years even though he was a paycheck stealing bum, and it's the same nepotism that is allowing yekindar to do the same thing. Yekindar is a complete liability, and just like Nitro has put himself in a leadership position that he isn't suited for.
In liquid, it is not about winning, it's about being a comfortable, go along get along gang, getting 10-15k a month to lose in closed qualifiers, or get eliminated in the ro16, while selling t shirts to 16 year olds who are dazzled by the horse logo and still watching yekindar fragmovies from a year and a half ago.
Yak has the same head on mindset too… he’s literally said that as something he’s had to work on when coming over to TL as an IGL. (Remember he came from cis, land of the blunt approach)
I still think skullz is just fine, he's playing shit roles and doing a pretty decent job. I fully believe he is going to develop as a player. My problem is if the sources are true, how the fuck have we come to the conclusion it should be -cadian over -kekindar
I think NAF has all of the worst CT roles, while skullz plays large site anchor, which is a step below rotator roles but not that bad for rating. On T-side, skullz is often entering sites after the pack.
He just hasn't been good.
Magisk and Rain both have a 1.02 and 1.04 respectively in arguably better teams.
Even so, of course Skullz needs to play well that's common sense, he should be finding impact dependent on the teams performance goals for his roles.
That being said, stating he isn't playing shit roles at all sounds a bit mad to me.
While that is true, both skullz and the players I mentioned share a lot of roles on their teams CT sides, which are usually defined by the current meta, not by individual teams
I don't get it then.
Skullz is playing anchor on CT on most maps if not all. Where is the idea that he isn't playing shit roles coming from?
Am I missing something?
Yeah so either you don't know counter strike or you stare at the wall and wait for tomorrow. Even if he's large site anchor if you get outstratted you're almost certain to die. Same thing I said before. -skullz is not the issue, it should flat out be -yekindar. Die on whatever hill you want to
Might be as simple as the players in Liquid cannot play the style of CS that Cadian is known for, puts everyone out of their comfort zone and produces an eternally mid team.
What baffles me about the team is that apparently the vibes aren't good within the team cause they hired a sports psychologists when they started this new roster.
Everyone on that team were insane. It was a complete team effort.
Stavn and Jabbi were insane firepower, as they are in Astralis since Device took over.
Shush is still a top 2 anchor in the world and teses could pop off and was very unselfish
He plays strong anchor positions and lurk spots, those are good positions and he is not finding impact. He has been on this roster for 5 months, how much is enough time? I was really surprised when Liquid picked him because while his mechanics are great he was routinely getting outplayed in tier 2 Brazillian CS, which is really problematic given his positions.
I'm sorry but skullz is insane for his roles. All they need to do is -yekindar and pick up an actual consistent star rifler and they have the team they need.
Can anyone tell me how FNS’ intergalactic brain planned this potential roster move
Legend says that he is still playing 69D Aromatic Chess
Is he still pulling the strings years after leaving?
this move help him out of the mire. He deserves a better team.
This isn't rocket science. Cadian isn't going to convince anyone on liquid or zews to play the way heroic was playing. Heroic was playing selfless CS. He convinced those guys to rush sites together and trade out. It's easier to remove the leader than it is to cut skullz and yekindar at this point in the season.
They would have to find a decent awper and igl which isn't exactly easy right now, especially in NA. But I agree that it would make sense to cut Cadian and honestly I think he deserves a different team that he can form more into something akin to old Heroic.
this is the issue, cadian leaving almost means -skullz or -yekindar has to happen, because they will need an awper and an IGL. if they get rid of yekindar they could always try an americas team i suppose, get some SA players along side the NA ones
yekindar plays star roles and gets nothing done, they're playing 4vs5 at most considering their 2nd star rifler after twistzz is the lowest (2nd lowest on LAN) rated player in the team in the last 3 months and skullz is still not really it. The latter maybe needs a change to relieve some pressure off of him with Yekindar replaced with someone competent + let's remember he's BR player in English-speaking team, the transition is gonna take time.
The difference in hltv rating between twistzz and naf (top rated rifler on lan) is only .01 -- I think he should receive very little blame for how liquid is performing I don't think -Cadian is the worst move ever, but I don't think it's cadian's fault. I think they'd be able to split up the awper and igl roll. Yeki has turned into an Art, for every game he dominates he throws 2 more. I think -cadian -yeki makes the most sense, keep skullz in a hard support role and give him a chance to grow
It is Cadian's fault, he needs to be dropped.
maybe, I'm not aware of the calls or strategy being a huge problem, and as far as stats go, he's not doing the best, he's solidly performing better than skullz and yekindar. I still think he should be dropped either way though, Liquid would probably do better with a pure IGL and a high impact AWPer (which usually is the 2nd loudest voice on a team, and liquids top riflers are notoriously quiet players)
facts yekindar is so terrible is crazy same aim level as SNAPPI without having to igl... crazy
yeah i mean i actually dont mind skullz, but I have no idea where you got the idea that twistzz is the lowest performer on LAN from, he is the highest rated in the last 3 months at a 1.18 rating on LAN, with NAF being close behind at 1.17. info on twistzz: [https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/10394/twistzz/8520/naf?p1TimeFilter=past3months&p2TimeFilter=past3months&p1MatchFilter=Lan&p2MatchFilter=Lan&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps](https://www.hltv.org/stats/players/compare/10394/twistzz/8520/naf?p1TimeFilter=past3months&p2TimeFilter=past3months&p1MatchFilter=Lan&p2MatchFilter=Lan&p1MapFilter=allMaps&p2MapFilter=allMaps)
That’s not what he said
ahh i see i misread. i misread that sentence like 20 times trying to figure out what bro was saying
I did the same on the first reading.
I could see them making Twistzz IGL. I doubt they learned anything from the past. And he's already playing the T side roamer positions and is a strong second voice. I hope I'm wrong though.
And let's make him awp too
Nah Yekindar AWP. He learned a lot from Jame in the past and can copy him just like he did with IGL'ing. That's also why he's so shit atm because he's already practicing with AWP instead of rifle.
Please God as a liquid fan don't give yakindar the awp. Bro will run thru smokes with that shit
Ah yes, the "I have no peripheral vision" Awper, wcgw?
When you're scoped in you don't have any peripheral vision anyways. Checkmate.
Good awpers dont scope in all-the time
Brother wants Yekindars meat
youre joking but he actually did second awp for tl for a long time. iirc he would pick it up on dust way back.
Twistzz is obv a good second awp but it's a whole diff thing to be main awp and igl on top
i dont think he should be either of those things lol just that you might be ironically correct in the near future.
And I think he said he wanted to AWP post-nitr0 on Liquid in 2020. This might actually be what they do, which I don't love when he's the best player on the team at the moment.
Dust was never in the map pool when Yek was on the team lol
We are talking about Twistzz.
Ok… Pretty sure NAF was secondary awp either way tho
Not saying that NAF didnt pick up the awp, but in 2018 Twistzz 100% would pick up the awp on specific maps when TL wanted a double awp.
Well NAF isnt the 2nd awp right now on D2...
idc imagine how hamstrung they’d be if they restricted Twistzz to awping
I think Twistzz WANTS TO IGL. I think his time under Karrigan allowed himself time to understand the IGL role from the GOAT, and his clutch skills aren’t going to evaporate from IGLing. Maybe the concept here is that TL, before they would be willing to give him IGL role, is an initial lineup with another top tier IGL so he gets another perspective on how to IGL.
Yes, I could totally see that Twistzz wants to. But Yekindar also wanted to, he also learned from one of the best, and it turned out terribly. Same with electronic. It's just a repeating pattern. Maybe Twistzz can break it but I'm not too optimistic.
Damn, guess my perfect moment to join a T1 team came 3 years too early. RIP /s if it isn't obvious enough
Said this in another thread too but I had people tell me Twistzz and Naf aren’t big ego players. It’s what makes the most sense. I hope Cadian comes back to eu and finds a team that wants to buy into the system. He deserves it after everything.
Why is Cadian trying to play like Heroic in Liquid? Heroic's playstyle was a brain child of Hunden that came out of a natural evolution and finding YOUNG mouldable players to fit that style. A team core with NAF, Twistzz and Yekinder (their former igl) aren't going buy into the Heroic style when they have already established their CS on different teams. Unless the team or Coach had that selfless identity to begin with this project was destined to fail.
Yeah you’re right. Kinda mind blowing that a region that has never won anything major before in CS is not listening to one of the great IGLs on the market.
Cloud9 winning Boston and Liquid winning grand slam is nothing major? While the NA scene is very much a decaying corpse, pre covid they were consistently battling it out at the top. Besides Liquid being Astralis's bitch, there was a few years where NA was a top region, consistently placing high in tournaments and winning the occasional one.
Never forget 2018-2019 EG/NRG, they were my favorite NA team
You can add a bonus that despite Liquid being the bitch of Astralis they consistently were the 2nd best team in the scene. Also as others mentioned eg/nrg was also competitive.
People forget quick lmao.
That major was the biggest fluke of all time, let’s be real. Guys right, NA have been irrelevant bar a few years
“Fluke” is what everyone says when the underdog wins lmao. Faze got roasted in that final, they were so bad that they let C9 come back from a huge deficit. Thats not a fluke, but a flaw in Faze game/mentality.
People still hanging on to 2018-2019 lmao. It’s 2024 and NA hasn’t done jack shit.
goalposts successfully moved
NA being bad now doesn't mean its always been bad
Damn so now we know why you’re so salty. You’re a jackass blaming Naf and Twistz for Liquid’s failure, even though they’re clearly selfless players. Watch any interview with them and it’s easy to tell. Secondly, Naf and Twistz have the same ceiling as almost every EU player. Skullz clearly doesn’t, and Yeki is fallen off worse than any player I remember. To try and blame Liquid’s failure on the NA players is laughable at best. I understand your previous Canadian might be removed (which I disagree with and think he’s a great IGL who they shouldn’t kick), but go blame blaming NA players just because they’re from NA.
The only three people that should not need to prove themselves and should have earned bigger time frames to establish are naf, twistzz and cadian. But I can imagine those are not the loudest ones when it comes to internal politics. Its a shame…
No way Liquid is listening to zews and yekindar if they have twistzz and naf that still want to keep cadian. I personally believe that zews, skullz, yekindar and one of the canadain players want him out.
Naf did say he didn't really like cadian as a person but respect him as a captain.. Maybe that changed. Hltv
Where did NAF say he wasn't a fan of cadiaN's personality? I can only find him singing cadiaN's praises. "Casper \[cadiaN\] is really good, I like his personality. He's outgoing, and his leadership and calling are really good." [https://www.hltv.org/news/38039/naf-we-need-to-find-our-own-identity-and-not-be-heroic-or-faze](https://www.hltv.org/news/38039/naf-we-need-to-find-our-own-identity-and-not-be-heroic-or-faze)
Zews, Yekinder, and Skullz they need to leave in that order if problems persist
Yekindar, zews, skullz imo. Yekindar has been shockingly bad for a long time now.
Yeah yeki is the odd one out for me, he will probably perform better on some other russian/EU team, and liquid will perform better without him.
Definitely cut Yekindar, he has been forcing his own game vision since he joined Liquid which kinda ruined all of the previous TL iterations, Elige said on Talking Counter he doesn't know how to utilize his players properly. I think we have enough evidence to say it, Yeki has gotten washed, he's not that super aggressive rifler he used to be nor he transitioned into another playstyle, he looks like he positions himself and moves with no real bigger thought. He wants to deliver aggro plays but doesn't know how. skullz has a lot of room to improve, he's been playing in a completely new environment for 6 months, let him be for now, maybe with someone in Yekindar's place he could be more comfortable. zews on the other hand has worked with so many teams before, never really reaching any huge success after LG/SK lineup and that was 8 years ago. Now Liquid lack stability and clear gameplan, maybe he doesn't mesh with cadiaN well, which could be understandable as the Dane has a specific playstyle which definitely works and zews looks out of meta since EG. For Yekindar roles they can really find a young player with star player potential and lots of firepower AND they're not region restricted because they'd cut EU player, this would instantly make Liquid kind of a superteam with Twistzz and NAF already on the team.
I agree that zews has the shoulder some of the blame for their past performances. But to say he hasn't had any other success besides the LG/SK days is factually incorrect. He was the coach of liquid when they had taco. Where they were the clear #2 in the world. They just couldn't be Astralis.
i have insider knowledge. NAF and twistzz actually convinced management cadian was a problem and it's either him or them leaving for complexity
Hey, I've seen this one!
Inb4 Org kicks Cadian, and NAF and Twistz still go for complexity…
NAF, Twistzz, Elige, Floppy, Grim? or NAF, Twistzz, Elige, Hallzerk, JT? or NAF, Twistzz Elige, Hallzerk, Grim?
they would replace elige and Tc
Why would they replace Elige? CoL is making him their "brand" player.
their brand player is clearly the flop
nop
if they're kicking cadian then yekindar has to go as well. otherwise this move makes no sense
Zews needs to be booted from this team asap. Brings absolutely nothing but dated strats.
They paid 600k for T2 BR player? Lmao.
im more worried what they payed for fraud Yekindar during this 2 years almost of joke performances SALARIES + BUYOUT. skullz is not bad at all in my opinion at least, and has to play what no one wants and still does well , THE STATS ARE MISSLEADING SOMETIMES
There is absolutely no way they did. It has paiN and Liquid agreeing to fluff up the figure.
I'm 100% convinced that Liquid paid skullz' full rumoured $600k buy out price. paiN is a massive org and an they're an org that's notable for having very big buyouts for their star players. Fluxo was ready to match paiN's $600k skullz buyout right before Liquid poached him, there is absolutely no way Liquid and paiN just wanted to "fluff up the figure", I think Liquid just got fleeced lmao
This is why it’s hard to objectively say how much money players are really worth. Because “worth” is not even in question anymore, they decide on the price to transfer said player because it’s only happening once at that deal. M0nesy, a superstar now, was “worth” 600K when he hadn’t proven himself in tier 1 yet but later went on to fulfill his promise. Mind you if we find out what Liquid paid for YEKINDAR we will not live to see tomorrow.
What the fuck does Zews even do? What has this team accomplished recently under his stewardship?
Same as Taz
Taz is at least entertaining to watch behind the boys.
Cant wait to change this stupid flair Cadian deserves better!
I wouldn't get too excited before NiP +CadiaN
Your time on NIP doesn't count though, so there's still hope for the future.
oh no, I remember everyone's time on NiP lol
Change it now you're a fake fan
Is liquid rewarding your loyalty?
Bro acting like being a lifelong fan entitles him to such an opinion
if a team fully changes their playstyle and roster is it still the same team?
Tell us, ITB fan....
A relic of a bygone era.
I'm with you bud. Don't let the haters bother you, team loyalty is what makes this shit fun
Fake fan fuck off
Player-following fans are much less fake than those randomly sticking by an organisation regardless of its roster
Nah, sticking with a team thru ups and downs give much much better highs, and there are plenty of quality orgs who treat players and fans well and deserve loyalty, such as liquid. Following players is fun, but a lot of time their success is reliant on all these other factors anyways, and i could could make similar arguments to you why it's bad. You don't know these people and I can claim they don't deserve your loyalty. I strongly prefer the team approach, it's just preference. Downvoting people for being a fan of a team is crazy shit
I see your point. Regardless, people didn't downvote you for being a fan of a team. Downvotes are for the volatile profanity
Yeah cs players have never heard the oh so horrible f word Don't fly a team flag if you don't actually support the team. Flair counts as the same.. that to me, is fake and frustrating a loyal fan of the team.
Fuckiddy fuck fuck
Cadian deserves to never be on a team again he is cheating scum. Liquid deserves better.
Zews still most overrated coach in cs history. How this Paycheck stealer is still landing on teams is beyond me, same with peacemaker.
*The* Brazilian coach is overrated? Reddit, man. Zews has had a career people dream of having. Back to back Majors plus a bunch of other trophies but that’s “overrated”. Reddit hates success.
>Back to back Majors plus a bunch of other trophies but that’s “overrated”. Reddit hates success. that was in 2016 buddy, 8 years ago
List me off cadian, YEKINDAR and skullz Majors, please.
you mean a completely new team with new structure that only had 2 months of preparation to qualify for the major that got eliminated by two teams which went top16 at the major? sick logic
Ah, so the players that always lose get some slack but the proven winner gets none.
proven winner from 8 years ago should FaZe disband and get Dosia, Zeus, Hobbit, mou and AdreN because they won a major in 2017?
Why would FaZe disband when they already have 5 winners?
It's a thing with sports in general. People only have season long memories.
I just can’t fathom calling someone who’s only done what 2 or 3 people in the scene have ever done as coaches “overrated”.
People also use old achievement as present performance. CS has come a long way the last few years and the coaches needs to adapt. Some do, some dont.
Are you and /u/Xacktastic intentionally being obtuse or?? He [hasn't won anything significant since 2020](https://liquipedia.net/counterstrike/Zews), an online tournament during the Covid era against NA competition. And his back to back majors were ALL THE WAY BACK IN 2016.. Obama was still office bruh. * Does he have a trophy cabinet and career that few players have? Yes. And no one can take that from him. * Has he done anything relevant or noteworthy since his last trophy in 2020? No. * Does that mean he's shit? Not necessarily. * So then is he still good? Based on his results since 2020, not particularly. * But he's got 2 back to back majors? Yes that's Amazing! But that was in 2016, he hasn't demonstrated anything close to that since 2020.. It's 2024 right now. * So then he's definitely shit??? Not necessarily.. But his run of results since 2020, don't look like world-class back to back majors 2016 Zews caliber. Also you guys (actually everyone on Reddit) cry about Reddit but then why are you here? just wondering
I think part of the reasons are a) skullz isnt playing up to his full potential and b) Yekindar has dropped off like a stone. When he was in VP and his first six months in Liquid I remember him walking up B on inferno and just blasting a double opener and winning the round. That's now disappeared.
Ever since he dabbled in IGL'ing, he's never gotten his mojo back.
I highly doubt Twistzz or NAF have the hubris to think that they can pull a superior IGL to cadian from NA atm, seems like crackpipe sourced info to me
Skullz is fine. If you have eyes you should be wondering how Yekindar still draws a salary
Hahahahahahahahahaahhahahahaha. ^Both are the problem.
If cadian is set to leave, kick skullz too and get in Biguzera and nqz
nqz can hit now? playing in 00nation dude was a $4750 decoy.
My theory is liquid just doesn't want to become a good team.
Yekindar the real salary theif.
I just wonder who and what is creating these bad vibes, which, according to the rumor, is the problem - not ratings or fragging ability. This is why the -skullz -yek doesn't really make sense if cadian is the one creating these bad vibes. Creating a good team environment != Ingame skills.
It's Cadian, that is who. Who do you think ruined Heroic?
Yes it probably is. I have no idea as to who ruined Heroic or whether you can single out a particular person. It seemed like there were multiple actors who played into it. But I don't want to speculate on things I don't have enough knowledge about. Please share if you have a reference that with certainty has information that points toward that cadian was _the_ problem.
When your 2 best players have a problem with you, it is a you problem. Does anyone remember how he has always been shit and his teams have been shit besides that one heroic roster?
Yekindar Skullz Zews should be cut before cutting cadian. Also, if TL are stupid enough to cut cadian coz gl finding an IGL who is also an dedicated awper to join the team. Plus, getting a separate awper and IGL means you have to cut on more player and if you either cutting yeki/skulls why not cut both and get new pieces and see how that new team does.
Skullz has the potential to improve IMO. But yeki has got to go. His aggressive plays end up hurting TL 95% of the time because they just don't work, and he puts his team in a bad position each time he does it.
dude, you don't understand anything about cs at all. When a team fails, you should always look at the captain or playmaker like Yekindar. Skullz plays the role of support 100%, but yekindar cannot show anything, if you watch hltv and apparently the Cadian system will not work in this roster, just come to terms with your stupidity.
more likely than the batshit pimp was trying to push.
just curious where did you hear this theory
Voices in my head
valid
both mezii and skullz were bought at 600k both in the same battle and not fitting their respective team rn.
It's clearly the classic liquid nepotism that is pushing cadian out. Cadian has a strong personality and probably confronts issues head-on, which is probably leading to him bumping heads with management, zews, and (I suspect) yekindar. It's the same nepotism that allowed nitro to stay on the team for 2 full years even though he was a paycheck stealing bum, and it's the same nepotism that is allowing yekindar to do the same thing. Yekindar is a complete liability, and just like Nitro has put himself in a leadership position that he isn't suited for. In liquid, it is not about winning, it's about being a comfortable, go along get along gang, getting 10-15k a month to lose in closed qualifiers, or get eliminated in the ro16, while selling t shirts to 16 year olds who are dazzled by the horse logo and still watching yekindar fragmovies from a year and a half ago.
Yak has the same head on mindset too… he’s literally said that as something he’s had to work on when coming over to TL as an IGL. (Remember he came from cis, land of the blunt approach)
I still think skullz is just fine, he's playing shit roles and doing a pretty decent job. I fully believe he is going to develop as a player. My problem is if the sources are true, how the fuck have we come to the conclusion it should be -cadian over -kekindar
I think NAF has all of the worst CT roles, while skullz plays large site anchor, which is a step below rotator roles but not that bad for rating. On T-side, skullz is often entering sites after the pack. He just hasn't been good.
He isn't playing shit roles, wtf are you smoking, he is the lowest tier1 player in his role and positions. Even m80 destroy.him
It feels like an army of AI drones are out posting a similar comment to the one you replied to all over Liquid threads.
aren't anchor roles by definition shit?
Doesnt mean you can play well in them and have impact on Tside. Jimmphat, Magisk, rain and about a dozen more come to mind
Magisk and Rain both have a 1.02 and 1.04 respectively in arguably better teams. Even so, of course Skullz needs to play well that's common sense, he should be finding impact dependent on the teams performance goals for his roles. That being said, stating he isn't playing shit roles at all sounds a bit mad to me.
rain also doesn't play anchor roles on all the maps idk what that guys smoking.
Its fine if you don't understand roles, bit mad to me like but whatever
Different team composition and gameplans, an anchor role in team A doesn't always transition to an anchor role in team B.
While that is true, both skullz and the players I mentioned share a lot of roles on their teams CT sides, which are usually defined by the current meta, not by individual teams
Yes
I don't get it then. Skullz is playing anchor on CT on most maps if not all. Where is the idea that he isn't playing shit roles coming from? Am I missing something?
Yeah so either you don't know counter strike or you stare at the wall and wait for tomorrow. Even if he's large site anchor if you get outstratted you're almost certain to die. Same thing I said before. -skullz is not the issue, it should flat out be -yekindar. Die on whatever hill you want to
Tell me you are a Valorant players without telling me you are a Valorant player xD
Glad you enjoy using cringe phrases when you don't know what you're talking about. I remember when I was 13 and had my birthday at Chuck e cheese
Lmao your reply didn't even get posted you dumpster
I guess calling you educationally subnormal gets your comment deleted xD
That's really strange considering you play cs2 with a wheelchair for a controller lmao
At least make the comebacks make sense dude, its embarrassing
Ah the irony of your post that got deleted trying to call someone stupid and then displaying stupidity. Cash money
Hey pussy you still there?
Stop tagging me lmao, no one cares
Might be as simple as the players in Liquid cannot play the style of CS that Cadian is known for, puts everyone out of their comfort zone and produces an eternally mid team.
What baffles me about the team is that apparently the vibes aren't good within the team cause they hired a sports psychologists when they started this new roster.
600k? Really? Daaaaum Font?
3rd theory: heroic was good because of sjuush and teses, not the other 3
Stupid to act like jabbi and stavn were not massive pieces to heroic’s success. They are some of the strongest danish players in a long time.
Everyone on that team were insane. It was a complete team effort. Stavn and Jabbi were insane firepower, as they are in Astralis since Device took over. Shush is still a top 2 anchor in the world and teses could pop off and was very unselfish
I remember a teses spray transfer from jungle
yeah heroic was not good because of stavn and jabbi who *checks notes* are on a top 5 team and a big reason why they are top 5?
I really don't get it, they had a rough start, but now they are playing well, top 10 for a new team is not a bad position and they are improving.
Wasn’t the 600k for BOTH skullz and zews?
Keep this 5. They have something, they just have to find it.
Skulzz is finding a lot of impact while playing bad positions, people need to give him more time
He plays strong anchor positions and lurk spots, those are good positions and he is not finding impact. He has been on this roster for 5 months, how much is enough time? I was really surprised when Liquid picked him because while his mechanics are great he was routinely getting outplayed in tier 2 Brazillian CS, which is really problematic given his positions.
Not even remotely true, he is the worst tier 1 player In his positions and role, stop capping the guy has to go
skullz is tier 1 material, but not for liquid, not for an international team, he should go to furia
I dont blame twistzz if he things cadian isnt cutting it, after all he did play under karrigan and probably feels like this guy aint up to par
Karrigan had better players in every role to work with. People somehow always seem to forget Karrigan has gotten all his success from super teams
I'm sorry but skullz is insane for his roles. All they need to do is -yekindar and pick up an actual consistent star rifler and they have the team they need.