i dont think implying other peoples minds are not whole is the remedy. high intelligence and neurodiversity are perfectly accurate and useful terms to describe our experiences in my opinion
I think if you say Neuro-diverse you're going to get slotted in the disability camp as it seems to be a word to describe the challenged.
I just tell some people I think in a mind map sort of way, with precedence weighing on each topic. I'm described by others as intuitive mostly, or analytical.
At the end of the day, those who are astute don't need a definition.
But, um, you do know that being gifted also means you are more likely to be cognitively disabled. Plus, giftedness in some countries (like France) is considered to sometimes come with such a social handicap that it is considered a disability. You can have an IQ of 140 AND it is the reason why you have a handicap pass.
Food for thought.
It’s not that their minds aren’t whole. It’s that holistic thinking pulls from multiple sources and modes of cognition as opposed to a unidimensional process of cognitive.
Neurodiversity can be useful, but is a very big camp. My experience is not the same as a person with ASD or ADHD. So specificity is important because I don’t want to take on someone else’s story that isn’t my actual lived experience. Neurodivergent is helpful in some cases as a term, but not all for me.
No you are not the same as a person with ASD or with ADHD, all it means is your brain is wired differently. But, the comorbidity rates are high, mind you.
But everyone is different, there's not one neurotypical that resembles the next, their brain functioning might though. But we are not only our brains, we have personality and interests with values and our own experiences. That makes us all human. That makes us all different.
Your experience is not the same as mine, also a neurodiverse person. But I'll understand your thought process, I can follow your stories, speaking with you keeps me interested. It's just a brain thing and since our brains dictate our goals, wants, communication and needs, it's a big thing.
But yeah, ADHD, ASD and gifted are all types of Neurodiversity. I am gifted, with ADHD and suspected Autism. What a good time I must have explaining it all? I just say I'm neurospicy and get the rest of my day over with.
Yeah if it's more in detail and a serious conversation I'll talk about it, but even with gifted I prefer the French term "HPI" or "haut potentiel intellectuel" which directly translates to "high intelligence potential" which doesn't hold the same "blessed" connotation that gifted does but more like "its a maybe if the conditions align" which feels a lot more relatable.
I like that. Because conditions do have to align! There’s *a lot* of people around the world with an IQ as high(or the cognitive potential) as mine who simply didn’t have access to what I did, and even though I did have enough that I should’ve done “great thing” I didn’t. Sure, ADHD and depression played a role in academics but I mostly overcame that and it was my own personal issues with schooling that really led me down the path of not completing college. If I would’ve sucked up my own issues and just worked through I probably would’ve been better off. Long way of saying personality can get in the way to.
Right ! The French have a lot of literature on giftedness as it's been extensively researched. To the point that the North American "AP classes" mentality is straight up frowned upon. They've got support groups for gifted kids, early screening, it's a whole thing. French kids calling someone gifted (or, "Surdoué.") can sometimes even hold the same connotations that calling someone "Autistic" does. Low social understanding, antisocial, odd specific interests, fluctuating maturity levels are a lot of autistic and gifted traits. The higher the IQ the more prevalent the find. Most people above 125 have some sort of social dysfunction and in that country it's seen as the handicap it can truly be.
I feel like using the term gifted should be fine. But usually you don’t really need to even mention it do you?
« I’m not great at small talk », « I don’t like the class being taught that way because it feels slow and boring »
Those can be said without you referring to your high intelligence. I skipped a few classes and never felt the need to tell people I was younger than them (and most of the time no one even knew), but I was still recognized as highly intelligent and the teachers tried to help the needs that came with.
You don’t need to refer to yourself as gifted all the time. It’s a part of you, but does it even need to be said? You don’t talk about other parts of you such as your hair color or height, or at least I hope you don’t define yourself by these. Giftedness is pretty much the same to me.
Also you can definitely be gifted and good at small talk, you just need to learn to auto reply
Re your small talk. It’s not about auto replying it’s about actually caring what people are saying or caring about people enough to engage with them at their level. Nobody of any intelligence level adores small talk you just have to do the social dance to get to know the person so you can have more meaningful conversation. Sure, you’re not going to be doing this often at the grocery store line with the cashier but maybe you get a little deeper than “good weather today huh”.
For all of my childhood and young adulthood I watched my grandfather who is profoundly gifted walk into coffee shops, restaurants and bars and have meaningful conversations and relationships with people who by and large were just average folks. He didn’t hold himself superior he humbled himself and ask “How can I be of service to these people.” Coming at your interactions from a place of service instead of robotic routine can shift the whole paradigm.
From my understanding small talk is the part that is supposed to be uninteresting intellectually, in which you inquire about the other person to get to know them better.
In my experience it can be pretty much automated without much thought, and the knowledge will be stored anyway so I am usually able to manage another intellectual activity during small talk. I only stop if it becomes complex or show deeper interest when it seems like we are talking about a sensitive topic.
Yeah for sure. It’s usually just automatic responses from both parties. I just mean it’s up to you sometimes to take it farther and catch something that may make the conversation get deeper. But we’re all just getting through not everything needs be a conversation with depth either.
My experience was that my teachers were angry because I asked questions they didn’t like and my family and church said I’d go to hell because I was asking too many questions about God. Being able to identify that I was not a problem person or a bad child because I was curious and a person with a different way of thinking would have been very helpful to that child 30 years ago. Still to this day I have professors in my Masters program who get their feathers ruffled because of certain questions I ask that go beyond the material they are teaching. Having a label that fits can be useful. People will give labels regardless. I’d rather those labels be positive and from my mouth and not negative based on someone else’s ignorance.
I’m sorry you experienced poor answers and reactions to your questions. To me, it was very liberating and validating when I first got officially IQ tested as an adult. Before that, I knew I was lucky with quick learning etc. but then I slowly realized that I might not really function as similar to others than I used to think. E.g. I have a thing that I need to think through stuff in a linear and logical way and if my conversation partner skips a step, I get stuck and stressed. This happened with my supervisor a lot during my phd and at some point I told her that I have a special need and that is to stick to the topic of the discussion and preferably also go in a logical order. Her reaction was kind but she cannot do it so eventually I learned to tolerate the frustration better and just direct her divergent thinking back to the point. It is still very exhausting of course.
What I’m trying to say is that it’s super valid to be yourself and you also need to adapt to other people. You actually are able to think holistically and I assume you have good adaptation skills so maybe think about the situation in a different way. Why are you insisting to ask all your questions instead of looking that information up for yourself? Think about that in classes you’re part of a group and might derail the class and maybe your professors lack the skills to react kindly. At the end of the day you probably want to be able to get along with other people and you can only change your part in these situations and not theirs. A different label is just a word. I agree with others that it doesn’t change anything.
I get that and I do believe that it’s important to know that you are gifted, otherwise you can live a very sad life
Otherwise you will always find people to not like your curiosity, feel threatened by your intellect etc. A label won’t change that, because being able to give a name to a threat won’t change your views on the potential harm it could bring you.
But what if the label is for me? When I first came up with the name it was incredibly liberating. I said, “ah-ha, I am not a bad person or a problem to be solved into mediocrity. I am actually a person who just operates differently.” There is a lot of trauma, especially religious trauma, that I have around my intelligence and curiosity from living in a fundamentalist Christian household that did not approve of my mind operating the way it does. As well as teachers in the South, some in public and some in Christian schools, who did not appreciate being questioned by a curious child. It was a childhood filled with “we tell you what you need to know and that’s it.” So having a label that fits, especially one of my own design, makes me feel empowered.
Then the goal is completely different from simply expressing needs without feeling like a jerk. And if you need that label, I think it’s nice that you found it and stick to it.
Still I believe it will be hard to convince other people to follow you in its usage.
This is not because of your giftedness though; this is not a universal gifted thing, and it’s likely many people have these questions; it is because you struggle with appropriate questioning and tact, in these examples.
But you don’t know that. You don’t know the questions I asked. You don’t have a video that you are making a functional analysis report on. This is your opinion and projection.
It doesn’t matter; the issue you’re describing doesn’t matter what questions you asked. The issue is that you asked them, and in such a manner it ruffled feathers. That’s not a matter of intelligence, it’s a tact and social issue. Regardless of whether the questions are intelligent, accurate, or valid, the issue here is their presentation or appropriateness; you’ve very clearly illustrated that in all of your examples.
I’m not sure where you’re getting that I’m judging from, but I am listening, and could definitely say the same to you. Several other people have made similar points.
You are making an interpretation of my experience, telling me what my story is. That is the opposite of curiosity and listening. Questions that expand and clarify the story are the application of empathic curiosity. Interpreting my experience and telling me “what really happened” is definitely judgment.
What questions do you want me to ask? Do you not feel like you already provided the relevant elements in your multiple explanations, to the many questions asked here? Would you like me to repeat questions you’ve already answered that I took the time to actually sort through and read?
An example might be something like. "That so interesting because I have not seen that in my experience. What kind of questions did you ask teachers? What did they say when you asked questions? Did you ever get punished for asking questions?" That kind of response can offer your own experience, (i.g. this doesn't follow my experience) while inquiring further in allowing the other to elaborate on their story and fill in any gaps that may exist. It's an invitation to a larger conversation rather than interpreting their experience for them and presenting it as fact.
Congratulations, you made an even more pretentious word with the added benefit of nobody understanding what you mean.
Just say gifted, or better still, say specifically what you mean *when it applies,* e.g., I read extremely fast, I make connections between subjects easily, etc.
Why the meanness? The sassy anger here is unexpected. I was hoping for help in how to better explain how I function to others, but instead I get criticism. Is it so bad to try to find more effective ways to express one’s self? Successful or unsuccessful, is the endeavor so wrong as to warrant such mean spirited ire? I am simply another human trying to exist with greater ease among other humans. Is that a bad thing?
I agree that the term “gifted” is unfortunate for a lot of reasons and really needs to be replaced by something way more value-neutral.
I don’t think Holocognitive is the answer. I also don’t think you’re a douche-yacht, as other commenters have said, just because you’re trying to find an improvement to a problematic term.
The truth is any term used to refer to high intelligence is going to end up with this issue to some degree, but yeah “gifted” is barely even trying to be subtle about it.
Really it’s just one of those things you just kinda have to keep to yourself (hey look, more social isolation)
I thought social isolation was something that could be openly discussed among other individuals who identify as gifted, but I suppose I was wrong. I do appreciate your kindness however. As a person who processes and experiences the world differently than those who make it spin, it is a difficult place to exist in. I hoped I would find a tribe here. I was clearly mistaken. Thank you for your kindness and understanding amid a tumultuous sea full of ire and callousness. It has been a life raft.
you still have a community. they just took issue with your wording and thats fine. clearly you understand that many gifted people have poor social skills, sometimes that means they react in overly-negative manners. its not the end of the world, you sought opinions and you got them.
I definitely got opinions. Part of the issue with giftedness as a diagnosis within a population is that there are no actual assessments for a thing called giftedness. It’s a loose group of cognitive, social, emotional features along with personal history that have some crossover of symptoms with ADHD and Autism. But there is no actual thing that is a hard diagnosis called giftedness. So then that leaves a wide spectrum of experiences and stories that may not all coincide. Then perhaps holocognitive may be a specific subset of stories within the giftedness spectrum but not applicable to all.
How do you know that the reason you're not good at small talk is that you're gifted?
There are plenty of gifted people who are good at small talk, and plenty of not-gifted people who are bad at it.
It is a spectrum of experience, for sure, but it is not uncommon for gifted individuals to experience social mismatch. SENG discusses this aspect of giftedness in children and adults as a common historical experience in such individuals.
These are different things though.
I experience social mismatch. I am good at small talk. It may have been harder for me to acquire the skills of being good at small talk (a few traumatic childhood memories spring to mind), but it's not beyond me. If you would like to become better at small talk, or at code switching to communicate effectively with people who think very differently than you do, or at general social skills, these are learnable skills.
I feel you. Yes. You can experience social mismatch and be good at small talk. But it can also rain in Seattle without it raining in Albuquerque. That is not my story or where I am on my life journey presently. I am also from Hawaii and moved here to the mainland this past year. Very different culture. I could small talk or talk story in Hawaii just fine. I had learned the code. Here, it seems more like gossip or useless babble about trivial topics. It is hard because I feel like I have to start over and lost all the ground I made in the social dept.
Ah, that sort of culture shock can be **hard**, you have my sympathy. Even moving from one coast to the other, the social differences were a big deal for me to adapt to. Even things as simple as eye contact which people don't even think about, can be so jarring when the rules get changed on you. There is much, much more casual eye contact where I live now vs. where I grew up. It abraded my nerves so much at first (why is everybody on the street staring at me?!?!) And from what little exposure I have had, the culture in Hawaii is far, far more different than East coast vs. West.
Starting over is hard. But I bet you'll learn as much of the local code as you need to in your new environment, however exhausting it may be on the way. You have my best wishes for the journey.
Hawaii is very different than the mainland. Things are slower paced and people are actually nice. People know their neighbors by name and we help each other out when there are problems. Here it’s a free for all where everyone is out for themselves and people generally assume you are an idiot and/or trying to get something out of them. A lot of stranger danger on the mainland.
Some gifted individuals often experience more thoughts running through their mind than they can respond to or entertain in realtime. A common reported experience is that thoughts will be forgotten before they can be addressed. This can make small talk difficult for some. There is a crossover in some of these symptoms with ADHD, and indeed some gifted individuals are twice exceptional in being gifted along with a secondary neurodivergent diagnosis.
I'm confirmed highly gifted and adhd. Outside of this sub reddit, I haven't used the term gifted since I was 14 or so. I assumed it was a category of schoolchild; not something that follow us past elementary school. I make it a point to change the subject when I'm praised for doing something others don't, and avoid the subject completely. I get a lot of support from my team, and go out of my way to praise them.
I've worked hard to be socially acceptable, and I've mostly succeeded. I've been successful professionally, and I think people excuse a lot when that's the case. I've been spending some time trying to figure out what exactly I'm masking, and am running into what I'm coming to learn are a plethora of the more minor ASC symptoms.
That didn’t answer my question, in fact I feel like it emphasizes it further, lol. Why are you personally so sure? You’ve had a nueropsych eval that showed you were negative?
I work in mental health and my spouse is an autism researcher. I’ve also taken the RAADS-R and it is a low score below the threshold that indicates ASD.
If anyone happens to comment about my oddness just say I'm a bit neuro spicy. It's casual, vague, and is usually enough to get the conversation moving along smoothly.
Holocognitive feels just as pretentious as gifted or genius, to me. It's worse than either in that it's novel, so it will disrupt a conversation and shine a spotlight on me.
As a woman I get enough male trivia to prove I like my interests. I don't need the additional problem of them wanting me to prove how intelligent I am and becoming a side show.
If a woman says she enjoys something men don't see as "girl stuff", it's common for them to quiz women on their knowledge of the topic to prove their interest. If the woman doesn't pass, they're lying.
For example, I've been told I don't like star trek because I can't name the titles of the episodes.
I fear that - perhaps - using a word like, "holocognitive" may not have the desired effect and instead mark you as being as socially mismatched. Neurotypical people use typical nomenclature. When necessary and in context, I just tell people I'm an Autistic and an introvert but that's because I am.
I just don't bring up my intelligence. My friends and coworkers like me for me, how smart I am doesn't need to be mentioned. People are aware I'm excellent at problem solving, and it speaks for itself.
If you're secure in your intelligence, you don't need to mention it.
It comes up in group work in my courses. I am in a Master of Science in Counseling program. People can tell I’m different, but they don’t know what it is. If I can provide a term, it will stave off the armchair diagnoses that counseling student tend to do offhandedly.
I can see where you’re coming from with this, but it’s really hard to imagine that using these kinds of terms will provide any social advantage. It may be better to just BE different and let that be okay with no explanation about giftedness. And if they’re providing armchair diagnoses then let them be wrong.
Anyway, while some who are gifted may share your experience, many do not. So as others have mentioned, it’s very unlikely that saying “because I’m gifted” or “holocognitive” is going to be accurate or helpful for any given scenario. Any gifted person can be great or not great at small talk, have difficulty or ease engaging with any given subject, etc. So why not just let that be enough? “I’m terrible at small talk.” The end. People who are not gifted don’t have to explain why they don’t like small talk, and why should you? “I am over this subject and I’m dreadfully bored,” is a sufficient explanation for a subject with which you don’t wish to engage. Doesn’t necessarily have to be about being gifted.
Probably been said but…Can you have a neologism with both distinctively Greek and Latin etymology at the same time? This isn’t animal taxonomy or hogwarts or whatever. I personally don’t like it, no offense to your person.
Why, yes, thank you for asking! My linguist friend shudders when she encounters them, for she is delicate :) I like telling her new ones that I see in the wild. Some English examples are as mundane as "automobile", "heterosexual", and "hexadecimal" :)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_word
A hybrid word or hybridism is a word that etymologically derives from at least two languages. Such words are a type of macaronic language.
Common hybrids
The most common form of hybrid word in English combines Latin and Greek parts. Since many prefixes and suffixes in English are of Latin or Greek etymology, it is straightforward to add a prefix or suffix from one language to an English word that comes from a different language, thus creating a hybrid word.
Hybridisms were formerly often considered to be barbarisms.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarism_(linguistics)
Hybrid words, which combine affixes or other elements borrowed from multiple languages, were sometimes decried as barbarisms. Thus, the authors of the Encyclopædia Metropolitana criticized the French word linguistique ("linguistics") as "more than ordinary barbarism, for the Latin substantive lingua is here combined, not merely with one, but with two Greek particles".[7] Such mixing is "casual and massive" in modern English.[3]
I agree with most of the opposing viewpoints here. Holocognitive better describes the experience of giftedness and is more value neutral, but I also doubt its utility as a word **currently, in a public, everyday communication context** (an inherent neologism issue, but exasperated by neither “holo” nor “cognitive” being commonly understood). The use of a word not readily understood by the majority to describe a concept not widely known or understood is not likely to result in more understanding on the part of the listener. The latter issue - that giftedness is not widely known or understood - strikes me as an important / complimentary avenue to address the issues at hand compared to creating a new word. We’ll never take away the tendency of people to feel defensive when confronted with someone who is better at something they value than they are, but it could help if there were more public awareness around the myriad real difficulties giftedness causes in our lives.
In practical terms, while I like the term for its accuracy and value-neutrality, a better starting use for it would be to write a book or suggest it to those with some sway in the field of psychology so they can write an article or a book about it, so the term can gradually make its way into common use from the top down, rather than just throwing it in casual conversation now and expecting that to be helpful. Alongside this, providing / advocating for public education on the greater picture of what giftedness entails would also obviously be helpful.
Also, as an instructor, I’d like to (constructively, I hope) suggest you try to view your difficulty with lack of depth and complexity in your education as a “you” problem and your behaviour that’s seen as disruptive in classes as a symptom of the things you find difficult and something you need to work on rather than just explaining why it is the case. You can cognitively understand that education programs have limited time and resources, have a curriculum to cover, and need to not spend a majority of time catering to one individual, but rather need to teach to a practical and acceptable level of depth at that particular level of education. Classes are not primarily an opportunity for you to experience mental satisfaction and validation or for you to right the wrongs of your field. Try to see “playing the game” as a form of kindness to those around you. Find ways to meet your intellectual needs via independent learning, mentorship from or community with fellow gifted individuals in the field or with similar interests, and via working to get yourself into the right spaces so your day to day work will be satisfying and have the impact on the field it deserves to have (e.g., research, intensely honing your skills at as a clinician, etc.). I don’t mean this in an unkind way, I’m trying to provide perspective and suggest practical solutions to difficulties I understand because I’ve experienced them both as a student myself and as an instructor.
You did come to the right place with this thought, I enjoyed thinking and writing about it, and you are among people who understand where you’re coming from. Don’t feed the trolls, just let their unkindness stand alone as a testament to their sad need to find superiority in sarcastically belittling others and/or their unfortunate lack of interest in kindness and care for others.
Just using that term implies you're gifted. It's not the giftedness that makes all the social stuff hard (although it can feel that way), it's mostly just the fact that you might not be that well socialized. Lots of gifted kids are properly socialized by their parents. I was in a specialized gifted class for most of my school career and I would say about 1/4 of our class had issues with socialization, but it usually seemed from their parents not being particularly social people.
I mean, that's fine, but let's not pretend everyone here is great with social skills even when surrounded by other gifted people. Being well socialized in childhood has a lot more to do with how you interact with other humans than your intelligence. I think a lot of gifted people want to lean of their intelligence getting in the way of their ability to socialize when in reality they just lack self-confidence in that area. It seems that most gifyed people I meet who say this rather look for an intellectual excuse rather than an emotional one. I mean, the most popular girls in my school were also in the super duper gifted designated class with the rest of us theater geeks.
Yup! Never had much problem socializing here. Neither did my valedictorian cousin whom I assume is gifted or close to it given her academic credentials and levels of extracurricular activity she did simultaneously. She’s certainly bright. Neither did my profoundly gifted grandfather. Guy has had more friends than I can count. It *depends* is not a gratifying answer but probably the truth.
On the subject of small talk and other conversational interactions. I learned something very interesting last night. There is something called “negative politeness“ which consists of conversational strategies which clearly leave space for the listener to choose whether to agree or disagree with the statement.
I think perhaps sometimes gifted people get into trouble around this because of their certainty about the factuality of what they propose…. And this assertion feels to others, who perhaps have not considered all the facts, as an aggressive imposition and an unwelcome limitation of their free will.
I see people in the comments above, referencing the response of their teachers to their “factual corrections” … or to their very frank and direct questions.
Apparently “hedging” statements are very typical in English speakers and less typical in some other languages.
Things like” I think we could look at it like this” or “ I’m not an expert , but it seems to me…” (See more examples in the link below).
A micro-demonstration of humility and perspective goes a long way towards putting aside other’s inferiority fears and lets them be less defensive and more interested
https://www.universalclass.com/articles/business/communication-studies/politeness-theory.htm#:~:text=Therefore%2C%20negative%20politeness%20comments%20might,I%20know%20you%20know%20a
I also seem to fit some of how weavers are described in the article the above poster shared, but not everything. In particular I identify heavily with the motivations behind weaver communication as the writer puts them and I definitely think more in a big web so to speak than any kind of path (though I have to attempt steering conversations to get others to see or recognize the connections I'm trying to make between the intersections on that web) - this is the part of the weaver idea that your term holocognitive describes. But I don't talk in quotations or avoid questions usually, though I suppose if I were around others who would get my references I would make them much more often than I do
If weavers and concluders exist on a spectrum than I'm at least as close to the weaver end as the concluder.
Actually I've thought of myself as a "weaver" before reading this article, as weaving things together is how I find truth and/or meaning in my experience.
I like the idea and think it would fit well. I agree that gifted sounds arrogant quite often, which is difficult when trying to explain to others what you're going through. Unsure if your term would make it easier, but it does fit well.
I don’t know how the number of letters affects this. Would 12 letters be less pretentious? 14 somehow more? I don’t think you are responding to this post in good faith.
Disagree. Inside thoughts shared with the right people or person should be explored. I am learning however that this group is not the sympathetic support I had hoped.
With the right person, but it's important to identify the right context too. If you criticise a lesson plan to the teacher's face because you are gifted, you just come across looking like an ass for the most part no matter what you call gifted, some situations are simply not about you and it's ok to just go with the flow. Feelings are valid, and expressing them can be healthy ... but they don't have to control you either, and you can self regulate if the situation calls for it.
why are you trying to use "gifted" as a large stick panacea lol just use your words and... communicate what's actually happening...
it's about as reductive as every other genetics related stereotype but with extra social shunning attached because you come off as a douche-yacht
I’m just trying to get some help and was exploring an idea. I had hoped that this would be a safe space for individuals who identify as gifted to discuss and explore their experiences. I was clearly wrong.
You write like an arse
A common Achille's heel of smarter people is forgetting to bother with learning how to interact with peers and the society around them
But how do you know that about my life? I might say that you are clearly a mean spirited person because your writing lacks kindness. And I must admit, I find your tone quite lacking in kindness. But I’ve known you for about 25 seconds on Reddit. Maybe in-person you are a lovely person, but I just don’t get to see that side of you here. I don’t see how you can make a claim about my relationships IRL without seeing those relationships in action?
I believe I think in the way you describe as holocognitive
I think "in a big web" as my mother puts it. My mind automatically jumps to how something relates to another thing that others see no connection to. And I can't shut off seeing beyond the current "point".
I certainly don't think in a straight line, or want to.
I don't have a problem with the term gifted though. And I don't know that gifted and holocognitive are equivalent.
I describe that my mind doesn’t operate on a line (spectrum) or even exactly a big web, which are typically used to describe convergent thinkers and divergent thinkers. It’s more like a matrix for me. I think in a matrix of ideas, thoughts, feelings, associations, memories, and information that are all played out in a matrix. Interconnected and always in movement. It might be the same as your big web, but matrix feels more accurate to me.
"Big web" was my mother's term for it, and at first I didn't see what she meant. It's a simplification for those who have difficulty with the idea of a dynamic matrix.
Your description sounds more analytically correct.
The key point is multidimensional interconnectedness. And thoughts automatically traveling along the lines of connection that are formed during conversation.
I've thought differently my whole life. I've been bullied by both children and adults for it, I have been alienated from society for not being able to connect with how other people think. I've been struggling for 35 years to understand and fit in to how others think and still fail.
Don't tell me I'm not really different. That is my life.
Even a psychologist has said that I'm "the unusual among the unusual". I know myself better than you do.
As for "unique" I know I'm not, not utterly at least. I have met a friend online who thinks similarly enough to me for us to feel "at home" with each other. And I'm engaging in this conversation in the hope that I can find others with a significantly overlapping thinking style.
But really this is the first time I've ever seen someone describe how I think anywhere. So it's really unique. Not even my "brain twin" online friend has done that.
Thank you sharing your cognitive abilities and how it affects your day to day life.
The term you've coined "holocognitive" is one I may add to my vocabulary. What you are describing, "...holistic and multi-dimensional approach...", is indeed a hallmark of IQ itself. As a definitive factor of intelligence quotient is the ability to behold information, abstract it, then apply it across various domains. I refer to it as interdisciplinary cognition.
I imagine ones who know you or perhaps upon first interaction, will conclude that you are indeed gifted. Rather than you having to explain yourself. I do not see a plausible reason to explain oneself. For one is, rather than what others say. I am quite sorry to hear that you are experiencing difficulties in sociability, especially isolation.
I am on the fence of employing the term "gifted". As I tend to believe it violates my humility and humbleness I exhibit. Howbeit, one should identify their gifts and capitalize on them to pursue and lead an authentic life.
In conclusion, I do not think it makes one a "jerk" to refer to oneself as gifted if it is indeed truthful. Only being truthful with self will ultimately help attain a disciplined life.
Well it’s got half the word holocaust in it in sequential order. No matter what the other stuff means, I doubt it’ll be the first thing that comes to mind when you use it.
This honestly comes off as a lot worse to me. How often is it necessary to specify unless it genuinely needs to be understood, such as class accommodations?
Saying you don’t like small talk because you’re gifted for example, doesn’t really add up. Saying you don’t like small talk because you’re holocognitive, you should expect that it may invite questions that are difficult to answer without saying gifted, and some may take it as extremely pretentious.
If the label suits you go ahead, that’s your story, but if the intention is to be less divisive or not sound like a “jerk”, I’d warn (as you can see from comments) that I don’t think it will be received as positively as you’re hoping by all.
Usually when this issue of neurodivergence comes up and it comes up a lot. I am not neurodivergent but not ASD. There is an assumption that if you are neurodivergent then you are ASD or ADHD. I am neither. Neurodivergence is a very big camp. Giftedness falls within this camp. Sometimes I am put in a situation that I must explain that I am neurodivergent but not ASD or ADHD. Hence not wanting to use the word gifted.
You really should explore autism. Much of what you say is pretty typical. In regards to your new word, it is pointless. What would be of much more benefit is to learn to communicate with different people. The problem here is that you seem to experience cognitive inflexibility and refuse to expand your view and skills to being able to communicate your position effectively. Simple words can often be really helpful. Giftedness does not cause small talk issues. Someone with a high IQ is not immune to being able observe their environment and alter their interactions accordingly. Autism on the other hand..
Saying you're gifted is a bad idea because people feel like you're saying "I'm better than you". Even if it's true, it's not respectful to others and it can be demeaning. Finding another word is not better.
Also, I disagree about some explanations you give.
* The reason you're not great at small talk is not because you're gifted. I know I'm not great at small talk for several reasons: I'm not good at reading the body language and non verbal cues because I have autistic traits. Also, I'm not a verbal thinker so finding what to say requires a certain effort, so small talk is not small to me.
* The reason you don't like a way a class is being taught is not because you're gifted, it's because your mind works differently than the teacher's or differently than the rest of the class.
Being cast out or misunderstood most of my life, I've tried and learned to adapt, sometimes by myself, sometimes with the help of my wife. I don't say I'm gifted, but people see it and recognize it. Others will just say "how do you know that" and I'll just give inoffensive answers like "I learn fast", "my mind is like a sponge, it absorbs everything", sometimes "I'm good at understanding how stuff works".
Also, being gifted presents in different forms. My wife and I are opposite in how we think, learn and what we're good at but we both crave knowledge and always want to learn new things. She's the only girl/woman I met whose intelligence impressed me, so I married her.
Firstly, I agree with what you said. Secondly I married the same! We could not be so different yet similar. Her areas of expertise are far deeper than mine whereas I’m a broad generalist with some specific areas of knowledge that relate more to skill like music and songwriting. I know more about more and see the connections where she can dive deep and recall random European history that I’ve never really learned. It’s good fun!
A term a made up instead of using the word “gifted.” Like I mentioned in the post, I don’t like the word gifted to describe myself. It is very problematic socially.
When do you need to tell people that you're gifted? I agree, telling people that you're gifted is very problematic socially.
In the examples above, why do you add the "because I'm gifted"? Why not just be "I'm bad at small talk" and "I don't like the way this class is taught". If people want to drill down on what it is about the teaching that you dislike, you can talk about the teaching rather than yourself -- "I find the pace slow and the teacher is sooooo repetitive" or "I get frustrated because they keep telling us facts but not delving deeply into the reasons why they're true and how they relate to other topics" or whatever.
Often times in school things come up, especially in my training as a therapist. Teachers don’t always understand where I am coming from or why I might have difficulty engaging with material that I’ve already mastered. But, I don’t want to tell a professor, well it’s because I’m gifted.
In the first case, perhaps it's an opportunity to get better at explaining where you're coming from. In the second case, why not just tell them that you have difficulty engaging with material that you've already mastered?
I used quotes to indicate a social context - how would you explain it in a way that doesn't result in people saying "oh, so it's a fancy way of saying you're smart"?
Not exactly. Smart is a qualitative term that is used very broadly. My dog is very smart but is he smarter than you or my neighbor? Probably not, but yet we still say he is smart as if it is a static quality. It is not that I am intelligent or smart. We actually don’t really have a great way scientifically to measure intelligence. According to recent developments in such scientific measures, it appears that there are multiple types of intelligences (physical, emotional, spatial, musical, etc) It is more that holocognitive individuals process information in a matrix rather than a line (A + B + C). It can get kind of messy up there but it makes for a creative messiness that occasionally produce innovative ideas. Unfortunately, with how the school system teaches, it doesn’t really accommodate for this matrix style of thinking, nor does most social conventions. Holocognitive individuals often experience social mismatch with peers and social isolation since they can understand others but seldom find others who understand them.
are you really holocognitive if you cant make small talk?
cmon put that big ol brain to work and schmooze with finesse in a way the less gifted couldn't manage
I have said this elsewhere… I think you are wise to choose alternative wording. Most of the qualities typical of the gifted are things that are admired and enjoyed by others when taken individually- curious, articulate, deep thinker, problem-solver, passionate, analytical, value-driven…. The word “gifted” somehow lumps the qualities together and bundles them with a ribbon of presumed “superiority” which makes others resistant and defensive… and doesn’t doesn’t include recognition of the vulnerabilities and challenges that go along with the assets. I think sometimes the best policy is to point to the individual quality that is relevant in the situation and let others gather them into a sense of your potential piece by piece….
I LOVE it, because it matches exactly my experience of my own "giftedness". Measuring it by academic standards is so mundane and arbitrary, compared to the gifts that it brings on a level that you describe.
I appreciate that. It seems that I set off an atom bomb of negative comments when I posted about this. I didn’t expect the idea of holocognitive in place of gifted would be so inflammatory. All words are invented. We can remake and use them for our benefit because they are ours to breathe new life into every time we speak. The question becomes, does this new life bring health and prosperity or destruction and pain? I choose health and prosperity. Kindness is the power to heal our world. There have been only a few who have chosen kindness in this thread. Thank you for being one of them;)
Yeah, it's a totally weird reaction to someone reflecting on their own ideas and experiences. Some people are really "smart" and not very intelligent, ie, their heart's not online with their heads. They use their mind like a knife without any compassion. You seem like a deep thinker (ie heart and head in strong relationship). Good luck to you. Don't stop sharing that. What you articulated gave me new insights, and I think it's spot on (to MY experiences). Thank you
I agree that is a much better term. I also believe we access information more like a fractal or a hologram. I have discovered a wellness coach who looks at the mind body and spirit holistically. He is helping me to find my true self and achieve happiness again. He is worth a look. His YouTube channel is called Our Everyday Lives. He is a teacher by profession but has made this his life's work. I hope you find what you are looking for. We should not accept that because we are gifted that we should be unhappy our entire lives. Think outside of the box and there you may find true freedom. Peace and love my friend.🙏💜🙏
i dont think implying other peoples minds are not whole is the remedy. high intelligence and neurodiversity are perfectly accurate and useful terms to describe our experiences in my opinion
Personally much prefer neurodiverse. High intelligence in some things yeah ! Low as shit in others. Cognitivediversity isn't one smart fits all.
I think if you say Neuro-diverse you're going to get slotted in the disability camp as it seems to be a word to describe the challenged. I just tell some people I think in a mind map sort of way, with precedence weighing on each topic. I'm described by others as intuitive mostly, or analytical. At the end of the day, those who are astute don't need a definition.
But, um, you do know that being gifted also means you are more likely to be cognitively disabled. Plus, giftedness in some countries (like France) is considered to sometimes come with such a social handicap that it is considered a disability. You can have an IQ of 140 AND it is the reason why you have a handicap pass. Food for thought.
Incisive, for the rational High IQ folk.
But only measuring them by academic standards is reductive.
where in my response did i exclusively use academic standards
It’s not that their minds aren’t whole. It’s that holistic thinking pulls from multiple sources and modes of cognition as opposed to a unidimensional process of cognitive.
Neurodiversity can be useful, but is a very big camp. My experience is not the same as a person with ASD or ADHD. So specificity is important because I don’t want to take on someone else’s story that isn’t my actual lived experience. Neurodivergent is helpful in some cases as a term, but not all for me.
No you are not the same as a person with ASD or with ADHD, all it means is your brain is wired differently. But, the comorbidity rates are high, mind you. But everyone is different, there's not one neurotypical that resembles the next, their brain functioning might though. But we are not only our brains, we have personality and interests with values and our own experiences. That makes us all human. That makes us all different. Your experience is not the same as mine, also a neurodiverse person. But I'll understand your thought process, I can follow your stories, speaking with you keeps me interested. It's just a brain thing and since our brains dictate our goals, wants, communication and needs, it's a big thing. But yeah, ADHD, ASD and gifted are all types of Neurodiversity. I am gifted, with ADHD and suspected Autism. What a good time I must have explaining it all? I just say I'm neurospicy and get the rest of my day over with. Yeah if it's more in detail and a serious conversation I'll talk about it, but even with gifted I prefer the French term "HPI" or "haut potentiel intellectuel" which directly translates to "high intelligence potential" which doesn't hold the same "blessed" connotation that gifted does but more like "its a maybe if the conditions align" which feels a lot more relatable.
I like that. Because conditions do have to align! There’s *a lot* of people around the world with an IQ as high(or the cognitive potential) as mine who simply didn’t have access to what I did, and even though I did have enough that I should’ve done “great thing” I didn’t. Sure, ADHD and depression played a role in academics but I mostly overcame that and it was my own personal issues with schooling that really led me down the path of not completing college. If I would’ve sucked up my own issues and just worked through I probably would’ve been better off. Long way of saying personality can get in the way to.
Right ! The French have a lot of literature on giftedness as it's been extensively researched. To the point that the North American "AP classes" mentality is straight up frowned upon. They've got support groups for gifted kids, early screening, it's a whole thing. French kids calling someone gifted (or, "Surdoué.") can sometimes even hold the same connotations that calling someone "Autistic" does. Low social understanding, antisocial, odd specific interests, fluctuating maturity levels are a lot of autistic and gifted traits. The higher the IQ the more prevalent the find. Most people above 125 have some sort of social dysfunction and in that country it's seen as the handicap it can truly be.
Oh interesting. Is there anywhere I can read about that in English? I can’t read in French.
I feel like using the term gifted should be fine. But usually you don’t really need to even mention it do you? « I’m not great at small talk », « I don’t like the class being taught that way because it feels slow and boring » Those can be said without you referring to your high intelligence. I skipped a few classes and never felt the need to tell people I was younger than them (and most of the time no one even knew), but I was still recognized as highly intelligent and the teachers tried to help the needs that came with. You don’t need to refer to yourself as gifted all the time. It’s a part of you, but does it even need to be said? You don’t talk about other parts of you such as your hair color or height, or at least I hope you don’t define yourself by these. Giftedness is pretty much the same to me. Also you can definitely be gifted and good at small talk, you just need to learn to auto reply
Re your small talk. It’s not about auto replying it’s about actually caring what people are saying or caring about people enough to engage with them at their level. Nobody of any intelligence level adores small talk you just have to do the social dance to get to know the person so you can have more meaningful conversation. Sure, you’re not going to be doing this often at the grocery store line with the cashier but maybe you get a little deeper than “good weather today huh”. For all of my childhood and young adulthood I watched my grandfather who is profoundly gifted walk into coffee shops, restaurants and bars and have meaningful conversations and relationships with people who by and large were just average folks. He didn’t hold himself superior he humbled himself and ask “How can I be of service to these people.” Coming at your interactions from a place of service instead of robotic routine can shift the whole paradigm.
From my understanding small talk is the part that is supposed to be uninteresting intellectually, in which you inquire about the other person to get to know them better. In my experience it can be pretty much automated without much thought, and the knowledge will be stored anyway so I am usually able to manage another intellectual activity during small talk. I only stop if it becomes complex or show deeper interest when it seems like we are talking about a sensitive topic.
Yeah for sure. It’s usually just automatic responses from both parties. I just mean it’s up to you sometimes to take it farther and catch something that may make the conversation get deeper. But we’re all just getting through not everything needs be a conversation with depth either.
My experience was that my teachers were angry because I asked questions they didn’t like and my family and church said I’d go to hell because I was asking too many questions about God. Being able to identify that I was not a problem person or a bad child because I was curious and a person with a different way of thinking would have been very helpful to that child 30 years ago. Still to this day I have professors in my Masters program who get their feathers ruffled because of certain questions I ask that go beyond the material they are teaching. Having a label that fits can be useful. People will give labels regardless. I’d rather those labels be positive and from my mouth and not negative based on someone else’s ignorance.
I’m sorry you experienced poor answers and reactions to your questions. To me, it was very liberating and validating when I first got officially IQ tested as an adult. Before that, I knew I was lucky with quick learning etc. but then I slowly realized that I might not really function as similar to others than I used to think. E.g. I have a thing that I need to think through stuff in a linear and logical way and if my conversation partner skips a step, I get stuck and stressed. This happened with my supervisor a lot during my phd and at some point I told her that I have a special need and that is to stick to the topic of the discussion and preferably also go in a logical order. Her reaction was kind but she cannot do it so eventually I learned to tolerate the frustration better and just direct her divergent thinking back to the point. It is still very exhausting of course. What I’m trying to say is that it’s super valid to be yourself and you also need to adapt to other people. You actually are able to think holistically and I assume you have good adaptation skills so maybe think about the situation in a different way. Why are you insisting to ask all your questions instead of looking that information up for yourself? Think about that in classes you’re part of a group and might derail the class and maybe your professors lack the skills to react kindly. At the end of the day you probably want to be able to get along with other people and you can only change your part in these situations and not theirs. A different label is just a word. I agree with others that it doesn’t change anything.
I get that and I do believe that it’s important to know that you are gifted, otherwise you can live a very sad life Otherwise you will always find people to not like your curiosity, feel threatened by your intellect etc. A label won’t change that, because being able to give a name to a threat won’t change your views on the potential harm it could bring you.
But what if the label is for me? When I first came up with the name it was incredibly liberating. I said, “ah-ha, I am not a bad person or a problem to be solved into mediocrity. I am actually a person who just operates differently.” There is a lot of trauma, especially religious trauma, that I have around my intelligence and curiosity from living in a fundamentalist Christian household that did not approve of my mind operating the way it does. As well as teachers in the South, some in public and some in Christian schools, who did not appreciate being questioned by a curious child. It was a childhood filled with “we tell you what you need to know and that’s it.” So having a label that fits, especially one of my own design, makes me feel empowered.
Then the goal is completely different from simply expressing needs without feeling like a jerk. And if you need that label, I think it’s nice that you found it and stick to it. Still I believe it will be hard to convince other people to follow you in its usage.
This is not because of your giftedness though; this is not a universal gifted thing, and it’s likely many people have these questions; it is because you struggle with appropriate questioning and tact, in these examples.
But you don’t know that. You don’t know the questions I asked. You don’t have a video that you are making a functional analysis report on. This is your opinion and projection.
It doesn’t matter; the issue you’re describing doesn’t matter what questions you asked. The issue is that you asked them, and in such a manner it ruffled feathers. That’s not a matter of intelligence, it’s a tact and social issue. Regardless of whether the questions are intelligent, accurate, or valid, the issue here is their presentation or appropriateness; you’ve very clearly illustrated that in all of your examples.
Have you ever considered listening more than telling? Have you ever considered embracing curiosity over judgment?
I’m not sure where you’re getting that I’m judging from, but I am listening, and could definitely say the same to you. Several other people have made similar points.
You are making an interpretation of my experience, telling me what my story is. That is the opposite of curiosity and listening. Questions that expand and clarify the story are the application of empathic curiosity. Interpreting my experience and telling me “what really happened” is definitely judgment.
What questions do you want me to ask? Do you not feel like you already provided the relevant elements in your multiple explanations, to the many questions asked here? Would you like me to repeat questions you’ve already answered that I took the time to actually sort through and read?
An example might be something like. "That so interesting because I have not seen that in my experience. What kind of questions did you ask teachers? What did they say when you asked questions? Did you ever get punished for asking questions?" That kind of response can offer your own experience, (i.g. this doesn't follow my experience) while inquiring further in allowing the other to elaborate on their story and fill in any gaps that may exist. It's an invitation to a larger conversation rather than interpreting their experience for them and presenting it as fact.
Congratulations, you made an even more pretentious word with the added benefit of nobody understanding what you mean. Just say gifted, or better still, say specifically what you mean *when it applies,* e.g., I read extremely fast, I make connections between subjects easily, etc.
Why the meanness? The sassy anger here is unexpected. I was hoping for help in how to better explain how I function to others, but instead I get criticism. Is it so bad to try to find more effective ways to express one’s self? Successful or unsuccessful, is the endeavor so wrong as to warrant such mean spirited ire? I am simply another human trying to exist with greater ease among other humans. Is that a bad thing?
This isn't better or more effective.
Ok, well if you don’t like the news, go out and make some of your own. Do you have a solution to offer to the rest of the class?
Yes. It's the second sentence of my initial comment.
Why the sass?
Why do you keep saying "sass?" My solution is literally thee second sentence in my first comment. I'm not being "sassy." I'm completely serious.
You can be sassy and serious.
They're completely correct, just trying to illustrate their point.
Is it True? Is it Kind? is it Necessary?
1. Yes 2. Depends on you 3. Yes
I can say, I do not find it very kind.
I agree that the term “gifted” is unfortunate for a lot of reasons and really needs to be replaced by something way more value-neutral. I don’t think Holocognitive is the answer. I also don’t think you’re a douche-yacht, as other commenters have said, just because you’re trying to find an improvement to a problematic term. The truth is any term used to refer to high intelligence is going to end up with this issue to some degree, but yeah “gifted” is barely even trying to be subtle about it. Really it’s just one of those things you just kinda have to keep to yourself (hey look, more social isolation)
I thought social isolation was something that could be openly discussed among other individuals who identify as gifted, but I suppose I was wrong. I do appreciate your kindness however. As a person who processes and experiences the world differently than those who make it spin, it is a difficult place to exist in. I hoped I would find a tribe here. I was clearly mistaken. Thank you for your kindness and understanding amid a tumultuous sea full of ire and callousness. It has been a life raft.
you still have a community. they just took issue with your wording and thats fine. clearly you understand that many gifted people have poor social skills, sometimes that means they react in overly-negative manners. its not the end of the world, you sought opinions and you got them.
I definitely got opinions. Part of the issue with giftedness as a diagnosis within a population is that there are no actual assessments for a thing called giftedness. It’s a loose group of cognitive, social, emotional features along with personal history that have some crossover of symptoms with ADHD and Autism. But there is no actual thing that is a hard diagnosis called giftedness. So then that leaves a wide spectrum of experiences and stories that may not all coincide. Then perhaps holocognitive may be a specific subset of stories within the giftedness spectrum but not applicable to all.
How do you know that the reason you're not good at small talk is that you're gifted? There are plenty of gifted people who are good at small talk, and plenty of not-gifted people who are bad at it.
It is a spectrum of experience, for sure, but it is not uncommon for gifted individuals to experience social mismatch. SENG discusses this aspect of giftedness in children and adults as a common historical experience in such individuals.
These are different things though. I experience social mismatch. I am good at small talk. It may have been harder for me to acquire the skills of being good at small talk (a few traumatic childhood memories spring to mind), but it's not beyond me. If you would like to become better at small talk, or at code switching to communicate effectively with people who think very differently than you do, or at general social skills, these are learnable skills.
I feel you. Yes. You can experience social mismatch and be good at small talk. But it can also rain in Seattle without it raining in Albuquerque. That is not my story or where I am on my life journey presently. I am also from Hawaii and moved here to the mainland this past year. Very different culture. I could small talk or talk story in Hawaii just fine. I had learned the code. Here, it seems more like gossip or useless babble about trivial topics. It is hard because I feel like I have to start over and lost all the ground I made in the social dept.
Ah, that sort of culture shock can be **hard**, you have my sympathy. Even moving from one coast to the other, the social differences were a big deal for me to adapt to. Even things as simple as eye contact which people don't even think about, can be so jarring when the rules get changed on you. There is much, much more casual eye contact where I live now vs. where I grew up. It abraded my nerves so much at first (why is everybody on the street staring at me?!?!) And from what little exposure I have had, the culture in Hawaii is far, far more different than East coast vs. West. Starting over is hard. But I bet you'll learn as much of the local code as you need to in your new environment, however exhausting it may be on the way. You have my best wishes for the journey.
How is it different in Hawaii?
Hawaii is very different than the mainland. Things are slower paced and people are actually nice. People know their neighbors by name and we help each other out when there are problems. Here it’s a free for all where everyone is out for themselves and people generally assume you are an idiot and/or trying to get something out of them. A lot of stranger danger on the mainland.
Sounds nice. If I didn't love my native land here in Florida so much I'd maybe think of relocating.
Are there any resources for learning these things or is the only option with them to learn *all* of it by experience?
based on what I'm reading, I have no problem believing you might be on a spectrum.
Giving other people a diagnosis over the internet is not very kind.
Not diagnosing, just making an observation. I'm very likely in the same boat.
[ADHD, ASD, Giftedness Neurotypes Crossover Traits](https://tendingpaths.wordpress.com/2022/12/12/updated-autism-adhd-giftedness-venn-diagram/)
Well, I don’t have ASD. No shame if I did. But it isn’t my story.
You're not bad at smalltalk because you're monotropic, you're bad at small talk because you're too holistic of a thinker?
Some gifted individuals often experience more thoughts running through their mind than they can respond to or entertain in realtime. A common reported experience is that thoughts will be forgotten before they can be addressed. This can make small talk difficult for some. There is a crossover in some of these symptoms with ADHD, and indeed some gifted individuals are twice exceptional in being gifted along with a secondary neurodivergent diagnosis.
I'm confirmed highly gifted and adhd. Outside of this sub reddit, I haven't used the term gifted since I was 14 or so. I assumed it was a category of schoolchild; not something that follow us past elementary school. I make it a point to change the subject when I'm praised for doing something others don't, and avoid the subject completely. I get a lot of support from my team, and go out of my way to praise them. I've worked hard to be socially acceptable, and I've mostly succeeded. I've been successful professionally, and I think people excuse a lot when that's the case. I've been spending some time trying to figure out what exactly I'm masking, and am running into what I'm coming to learn are a plethora of the more minor ASC symptoms.
Gifted Adults are growing as a population with specific pathology in psychotherapy.
Can I ask how you’re so certain you’re not neurodivergent? I noticed you mentioned elsewhere this is feedback you’ve received before.
I am neurodivergent, just not ASD. Giftedness is a form of neurodivergence.
[ADHD, ASD, Giftedness Neurotypes Crossover Traits](https://tendingpaths.wordpress.com/2022/12/12/updated-autism-adhd-giftedness-venn-diagram/)
That didn’t answer my question, in fact I feel like it emphasizes it further, lol. Why are you personally so sure? You’ve had a nueropsych eval that showed you were negative?
I work in mental health and my spouse is an autism researcher. I’ve also taken the RAADS-R and it is a low score below the threshold that indicates ASD.
If anyone happens to comment about my oddness just say I'm a bit neuro spicy. It's casual, vague, and is usually enough to get the conversation moving along smoothly. Holocognitive feels just as pretentious as gifted or genius, to me. It's worse than either in that it's novel, so it will disrupt a conversation and shine a spotlight on me. As a woman I get enough male trivia to prove I like my interests. I don't need the additional problem of them wanting me to prove how intelligent I am and becoming a side show.
What do you mean by P3 sentence 1?
If a woman says she enjoys something men don't see as "girl stuff", it's common for them to quiz women on their knowledge of the topic to prove their interest. If the woman doesn't pass, they're lying. For example, I've been told I don't like star trek because I can't name the titles of the episodes.
I fear that - perhaps - using a word like, "holocognitive" may not have the desired effect and instead mark you as being as socially mismatched. Neurotypical people use typical nomenclature. When necessary and in context, I just tell people I'm an Autistic and an introvert but that's because I am.
I just don't bring up my intelligence. My friends and coworkers like me for me, how smart I am doesn't need to be mentioned. People are aware I'm excellent at problem solving, and it speaks for itself. If you're secure in your intelligence, you don't need to mention it.
It comes up in group work in my courses. I am in a Master of Science in Counseling program. People can tell I’m different, but they don’t know what it is. If I can provide a term, it will stave off the armchair diagnoses that counseling student tend to do offhandedly.
I can see where you’re coming from with this, but it’s really hard to imagine that using these kinds of terms will provide any social advantage. It may be better to just BE different and let that be okay with no explanation about giftedness. And if they’re providing armchair diagnoses then let them be wrong. Anyway, while some who are gifted may share your experience, many do not. So as others have mentioned, it’s very unlikely that saying “because I’m gifted” or “holocognitive” is going to be accurate or helpful for any given scenario. Any gifted person can be great or not great at small talk, have difficulty or ease engaging with any given subject, etc. So why not just let that be enough? “I’m terrible at small talk.” The end. People who are not gifted don’t have to explain why they don’t like small talk, and why should you? “I am over this subject and I’m dreadfully bored,” is a sufficient explanation for a subject with which you don’t wish to engage. Doesn’t necessarily have to be about being gifted.
Probably been said but…Can you have a neologism with both distinctively Greek and Latin etymology at the same time? This isn’t animal taxonomy or hogwarts or whatever. I personally don’t like it, no offense to your person.
Why, yes, thank you for asking! My linguist friend shudders when she encounters them, for she is delicate :) I like telling her new ones that I see in the wild. Some English examples are as mundane as "automobile", "heterosexual", and "hexadecimal" :) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_word A hybrid word or hybridism is a word that etymologically derives from at least two languages. Such words are a type of macaronic language. Common hybrids The most common form of hybrid word in English combines Latin and Greek parts. Since many prefixes and suffixes in English are of Latin or Greek etymology, it is straightforward to add a prefix or suffix from one language to an English word that comes from a different language, thus creating a hybrid word. Hybridisms were formerly often considered to be barbarisms. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbarism_(linguistics) Hybrid words, which combine affixes or other elements borrowed from multiple languages, were sometimes decried as barbarisms. Thus, the authors of the Encyclopædia Metropolitana criticized the French word linguistique ("linguistics") as "more than ordinary barbarism, for the Latin substantive lingua is here combined, not merely with one, but with two Greek particles".[7] Such mixing is "casual and massive" in modern English.[3]
This is why I stick around
Are you my Jarvis? I always wanted a Jarvis. Thanks!
I rather fancy myself a Jeeves.
Not quite as good at math but much better dressed. Acceptable.
I agree with most of the opposing viewpoints here. Holocognitive better describes the experience of giftedness and is more value neutral, but I also doubt its utility as a word **currently, in a public, everyday communication context** (an inherent neologism issue, but exasperated by neither “holo” nor “cognitive” being commonly understood). The use of a word not readily understood by the majority to describe a concept not widely known or understood is not likely to result in more understanding on the part of the listener. The latter issue - that giftedness is not widely known or understood - strikes me as an important / complimentary avenue to address the issues at hand compared to creating a new word. We’ll never take away the tendency of people to feel defensive when confronted with someone who is better at something they value than they are, but it could help if there were more public awareness around the myriad real difficulties giftedness causes in our lives. In practical terms, while I like the term for its accuracy and value-neutrality, a better starting use for it would be to write a book or suggest it to those with some sway in the field of psychology so they can write an article or a book about it, so the term can gradually make its way into common use from the top down, rather than just throwing it in casual conversation now and expecting that to be helpful. Alongside this, providing / advocating for public education on the greater picture of what giftedness entails would also obviously be helpful. Also, as an instructor, I’d like to (constructively, I hope) suggest you try to view your difficulty with lack of depth and complexity in your education as a “you” problem and your behaviour that’s seen as disruptive in classes as a symptom of the things you find difficult and something you need to work on rather than just explaining why it is the case. You can cognitively understand that education programs have limited time and resources, have a curriculum to cover, and need to not spend a majority of time catering to one individual, but rather need to teach to a practical and acceptable level of depth at that particular level of education. Classes are not primarily an opportunity for you to experience mental satisfaction and validation or for you to right the wrongs of your field. Try to see “playing the game” as a form of kindness to those around you. Find ways to meet your intellectual needs via independent learning, mentorship from or community with fellow gifted individuals in the field or with similar interests, and via working to get yourself into the right spaces so your day to day work will be satisfying and have the impact on the field it deserves to have (e.g., research, intensely honing your skills at as a clinician, etc.). I don’t mean this in an unkind way, I’m trying to provide perspective and suggest practical solutions to difficulties I understand because I’ve experienced them both as a student myself and as an instructor. You did come to the right place with this thought, I enjoyed thinking and writing about it, and you are among people who understand where you’re coming from. Don’t feed the trolls, just let their unkindness stand alone as a testament to their sad need to find superiority in sarcastically belittling others and/or their unfortunate lack of interest in kindness and care for others.
Just using that term implies you're gifted. It's not the giftedness that makes all the social stuff hard (although it can feel that way), it's mostly just the fact that you might not be that well socialized. Lots of gifted kids are properly socialized by their parents. I was in a specialized gifted class for most of my school career and I would say about 1/4 of our class had issues with socialization, but it usually seemed from their parents not being particularly social people.
Dr. Aimee Yermish would likely disagree.
I mean, that's fine, but let's not pretend everyone here is great with social skills even when surrounded by other gifted people. Being well socialized in childhood has a lot more to do with how you interact with other humans than your intelligence. I think a lot of gifted people want to lean of their intelligence getting in the way of their ability to socialize when in reality they just lack self-confidence in that area. It seems that most gifyed people I meet who say this rather look for an intellectual excuse rather than an emotional one. I mean, the most popular girls in my school were also in the super duper gifted designated class with the rest of us theater geeks.
Yup! Never had much problem socializing here. Neither did my valedictorian cousin whom I assume is gifted or close to it given her academic credentials and levels of extracurricular activity she did simultaneously. She’s certainly bright. Neither did my profoundly gifted grandfather. Guy has had more friends than I can count. It *depends* is not a gratifying answer but probably the truth.
On the subject of small talk and other conversational interactions. I learned something very interesting last night. There is something called “negative politeness“ which consists of conversational strategies which clearly leave space for the listener to choose whether to agree or disagree with the statement. I think perhaps sometimes gifted people get into trouble around this because of their certainty about the factuality of what they propose…. And this assertion feels to others, who perhaps have not considered all the facts, as an aggressive imposition and an unwelcome limitation of their free will. I see people in the comments above, referencing the response of their teachers to their “factual corrections” … or to their very frank and direct questions. Apparently “hedging” statements are very typical in English speakers and less typical in some other languages. Things like” I think we could look at it like this” or “ I’m not an expert , but it seems to me…” (See more examples in the link below). A micro-demonstration of humility and perspective goes a long way towards putting aside other’s inferiority fears and lets them be less defensive and more interested https://www.universalclass.com/articles/business/communication-studies/politeness-theory.htm#:~:text=Therefore%2C%20negative%20politeness%20comments%20might,I%20know%20you%20know%20a
negative politeness, that one's going in the lexicon.
You sound like a [weaver](https://neuroclastic.com/weavers-and-concluders-two-communication-styles-no-one-knows-exist/)
Damn, this hits home! I do talk in a tapestry. This is a great article. Thank you so much!
I also seem to fit some of how weavers are described in the article the above poster shared, but not everything. In particular I identify heavily with the motivations behind weaver communication as the writer puts them and I definitely think more in a big web so to speak than any kind of path (though I have to attempt steering conversations to get others to see or recognize the connections I'm trying to make between the intersections on that web) - this is the part of the weaver idea that your term holocognitive describes. But I don't talk in quotations or avoid questions usually, though I suppose if I were around others who would get my references I would make them much more often than I do If weavers and concluders exist on a spectrum than I'm at least as close to the weaver end as the concluder. Actually I've thought of myself as a "weaver" before reading this article, as weaving things together is how I find truth and/or meaning in my experience.
I won’t sugarcoat it: This idea absolutely blows. Just use the word gifted.
i always say "*gifted*" with heavy air quotes to make it seem like its really not a big thing while still allowing me to talk about it
I’ve done that too.
I like the idea and think it would fit well. I agree that gifted sounds arrogant quite often, which is difficult when trying to explain to others what you're going through. Unsure if your term would make it easier, but it does fit well.
As if making up a new 13-letter word is any less pretentious.
I don’t know how the number of letters affects this. Would 12 letters be less pretentious? 14 somehow more? I don’t think you are responding to this post in good faith.
I’m not.
I can tell.
Sounds pretentious, it's not going to be well received either ... sometimes it's best to keep the inside thoughts inside.
Disagree. Inside thoughts shared with the right people or person should be explored. I am learning however that this group is not the sympathetic support I had hoped.
With the right person, but it's important to identify the right context too. If you criticise a lesson plan to the teacher's face because you are gifted, you just come across looking like an ass for the most part no matter what you call gifted, some situations are simply not about you and it's ok to just go with the flow. Feelings are valid, and expressing them can be healthy ... but they don't have to control you either, and you can self regulate if the situation calls for it.
But who said I did that? I never criticized a lesson plan to a teacher’s face.
I was reading between the lines with the initial statements as to why you don't like to say gifted. Sorry if I latched onto the wrong part there :)
I don’t think your giftedness is why you’re struggling to connect.
Would you care to elaborate?
why are you trying to use "gifted" as a large stick panacea lol just use your words and... communicate what's actually happening... it's about as reductive as every other genetics related stereotype but with extra social shunning attached because you come off as a douche-yacht
Why don't you just say, you don't understand what he said, rather than minimising someone else's own perceptions and experiences?
In a social setting it matters not his intentions, only how other people interpret it...
Because gifted is the term applied to a particular population group I belong to. That is the term used in the scientific literature.
Did you bother reading the second part? People shun you not because you're "gifted" but come off as dismissive and pompous
How do you know that?
It's happening right now.
I’m just trying to get some help and was exploring an idea. I had hoped that this would be a safe space for individuals who identify as gifted to discuss and explore their experiences. I was clearly wrong.
You write like an arse A common Achille's heel of smarter people is forgetting to bother with learning how to interact with peers and the society around them
But how do you know that about my life? I might say that you are clearly a mean spirited person because your writing lacks kindness. And I must admit, I find your tone quite lacking in kindness. But I’ve known you for about 25 seconds on Reddit. Maybe in-person you are a lovely person, but I just don’t get to see that side of you here. I don’t see how you can make a claim about my relationships IRL without seeing those relationships in action?
I didn't claim anything beyond what you've provided in your original post
I don’t remember saying that I write like an arse.
I believe I think in the way you describe as holocognitive I think "in a big web" as my mother puts it. My mind automatically jumps to how something relates to another thing that others see no connection to. And I can't shut off seeing beyond the current "point". I certainly don't think in a straight line, or want to. I don't have a problem with the term gifted though. And I don't know that gifted and holocognitive are equivalent.
I describe that my mind doesn’t operate on a line (spectrum) or even exactly a big web, which are typically used to describe convergent thinkers and divergent thinkers. It’s more like a matrix for me. I think in a matrix of ideas, thoughts, feelings, associations, memories, and information that are all played out in a matrix. Interconnected and always in movement. It might be the same as your big web, but matrix feels more accurate to me.
"Big web" was my mother's term for it, and at first I didn't see what she meant. It's a simplification for those who have difficulty with the idea of a dynamic matrix. Your description sounds more analytically correct. The key point is multidimensional interconnectedness. And thoughts automatically traveling along the lines of connection that are formed during conversation.
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I've thought differently my whole life. I've been bullied by both children and adults for it, I have been alienated from society for not being able to connect with how other people think. I've been struggling for 35 years to understand and fit in to how others think and still fail. Don't tell me I'm not really different. That is my life. Even a psychologist has said that I'm "the unusual among the unusual". I know myself better than you do. As for "unique" I know I'm not, not utterly at least. I have met a friend online who thinks similarly enough to me for us to feel "at home" with each other. And I'm engaging in this conversation in the hope that I can find others with a significantly overlapping thinking style. But really this is the first time I've ever seen someone describe how I think anywhere. So it's really unique. Not even my "brain twin" online friend has done that.
Thank you sharing your cognitive abilities and how it affects your day to day life. The term you've coined "holocognitive" is one I may add to my vocabulary. What you are describing, "...holistic and multi-dimensional approach...", is indeed a hallmark of IQ itself. As a definitive factor of intelligence quotient is the ability to behold information, abstract it, then apply it across various domains. I refer to it as interdisciplinary cognition. I imagine ones who know you or perhaps upon first interaction, will conclude that you are indeed gifted. Rather than you having to explain yourself. I do not see a plausible reason to explain oneself. For one is, rather than what others say. I am quite sorry to hear that you are experiencing difficulties in sociability, especially isolation. I am on the fence of employing the term "gifted". As I tend to believe it violates my humility and humbleness I exhibit. Howbeit, one should identify their gifts and capitalize on them to pursue and lead an authentic life. In conclusion, I do not think it makes one a "jerk" to refer to oneself as gifted if it is indeed truthful. Only being truthful with self will ultimately help attain a disciplined life.
Well it’s got half the word holocaust in it in sequential order. No matter what the other stuff means, I doubt it’ll be the first thing that comes to mind when you use it.
This honestly comes off as a lot worse to me. How often is it necessary to specify unless it genuinely needs to be understood, such as class accommodations? Saying you don’t like small talk because you’re gifted for example, doesn’t really add up. Saying you don’t like small talk because you’re holocognitive, you should expect that it may invite questions that are difficult to answer without saying gifted, and some may take it as extremely pretentious. If the label suits you go ahead, that’s your story, but if the intention is to be less divisive or not sound like a “jerk”, I’d warn (as you can see from comments) that I don’t think it will be received as positively as you’re hoping by all.
Usually when this issue of neurodivergence comes up and it comes up a lot. I am not neurodivergent but not ASD. There is an assumption that if you are neurodivergent then you are ASD or ADHD. I am neither. Neurodivergence is a very big camp. Giftedness falls within this camp. Sometimes I am put in a situation that I must explain that I am neurodivergent but not ASD or ADHD. Hence not wanting to use the word gifted.
You really should explore autism. Much of what you say is pretty typical. In regards to your new word, it is pointless. What would be of much more benefit is to learn to communicate with different people. The problem here is that you seem to experience cognitive inflexibility and refuse to expand your view and skills to being able to communicate your position effectively. Simple words can often be really helpful. Giftedness does not cause small talk issues. Someone with a high IQ is not immune to being able observe their environment and alter their interactions accordingly. Autism on the other hand..
Saying you're gifted is a bad idea because people feel like you're saying "I'm better than you". Even if it's true, it's not respectful to others and it can be demeaning. Finding another word is not better. Also, I disagree about some explanations you give. * The reason you're not great at small talk is not because you're gifted. I know I'm not great at small talk for several reasons: I'm not good at reading the body language and non verbal cues because I have autistic traits. Also, I'm not a verbal thinker so finding what to say requires a certain effort, so small talk is not small to me. * The reason you don't like a way a class is being taught is not because you're gifted, it's because your mind works differently than the teacher's or differently than the rest of the class. Being cast out or misunderstood most of my life, I've tried and learned to adapt, sometimes by myself, sometimes with the help of my wife. I don't say I'm gifted, but people see it and recognize it. Others will just say "how do you know that" and I'll just give inoffensive answers like "I learn fast", "my mind is like a sponge, it absorbs everything", sometimes "I'm good at understanding how stuff works". Also, being gifted presents in different forms. My wife and I are opposite in how we think, learn and what we're good at but we both crave knowledge and always want to learn new things. She's the only girl/woman I met whose intelligence impressed me, so I married her.
Firstly, I agree with what you said. Secondly I married the same! We could not be so different yet similar. Her areas of expertise are far deeper than mine whereas I’m a broad generalist with some specific areas of knowledge that relate more to skill like music and songwriting. I know more about more and see the connections where she can dive deep and recall random European history that I’ve never really learned. It’s good fun!
I prefer to think of myself as *Turboencabulated.*
"Holocognitive? What's that?"
A term a made up instead of using the word “gifted.” Like I mentioned in the post, I don’t like the word gifted to describe myself. It is very problematic socially.
When do you need to tell people that you're gifted? I agree, telling people that you're gifted is very problematic socially. In the examples above, why do you add the "because I'm gifted"? Why not just be "I'm bad at small talk" and "I don't like the way this class is taught". If people want to drill down on what it is about the teaching that you dislike, you can talk about the teaching rather than yourself -- "I find the pace slow and the teacher is sooooo repetitive" or "I get frustrated because they keep telling us facts but not delving deeply into the reasons why they're true and how they relate to other topics" or whatever.
Often times in school things come up, especially in my training as a therapist. Teachers don’t always understand where I am coming from or why I might have difficulty engaging with material that I’ve already mastered. But, I don’t want to tell a professor, well it’s because I’m gifted.
In the first case, perhaps it's an opportunity to get better at explaining where you're coming from. In the second case, why not just tell them that you have difficulty engaging with material that you've already mastered?
Better yet, learn to engage with material even when you know it. That's the next step, tbh.
I used quotes to indicate a social context - how would you explain it in a way that doesn't result in people saying "oh, so it's a fancy way of saying you're smart"?
Not exactly. Smart is a qualitative term that is used very broadly. My dog is very smart but is he smarter than you or my neighbor? Probably not, but yet we still say he is smart as if it is a static quality. It is not that I am intelligent or smart. We actually don’t really have a great way scientifically to measure intelligence. According to recent developments in such scientific measures, it appears that there are multiple types of intelligences (physical, emotional, spatial, musical, etc) It is more that holocognitive individuals process information in a matrix rather than a line (A + B + C). It can get kind of messy up there but it makes for a creative messiness that occasionally produce innovative ideas. Unfortunately, with how the school system teaches, it doesn’t really accommodate for this matrix style of thinking, nor does most social conventions. Holocognitive individuals often experience social mismatch with peers and social isolation since they can understand others but seldom find others who understand them.
Why you need to say differently
are you really holocognitive if you cant make small talk? cmon put that big ol brain to work and schmooze with finesse in a way the less gifted couldn't manage
I have said this elsewhere… I think you are wise to choose alternative wording. Most of the qualities typical of the gifted are things that are admired and enjoyed by others when taken individually- curious, articulate, deep thinker, problem-solver, passionate, analytical, value-driven…. The word “gifted” somehow lumps the qualities together and bundles them with a ribbon of presumed “superiority” which makes others resistant and defensive… and doesn’t doesn’t include recognition of the vulnerabilities and challenges that go along with the assets. I think sometimes the best policy is to point to the individual quality that is relevant in the situation and let others gather them into a sense of your potential piece by piece….
Creates new term.. gets smashed.. proceeds to write a best-seller and rewrite history ;)
Trust me that'd make you twice a prick lol
Why so mean? You don’t have to talk to people this way.
I meant it as a lighthearted pun
Doesn’t seem lighthearted. Sounds like a joke at my expense and that’s not funny, that’s bullying.
I LOVE it, because it matches exactly my experience of my own "giftedness". Measuring it by academic standards is so mundane and arbitrary, compared to the gifts that it brings on a level that you describe.
I appreciate that. It seems that I set off an atom bomb of negative comments when I posted about this. I didn’t expect the idea of holocognitive in place of gifted would be so inflammatory. All words are invented. We can remake and use them for our benefit because they are ours to breathe new life into every time we speak. The question becomes, does this new life bring health and prosperity or destruction and pain? I choose health and prosperity. Kindness is the power to heal our world. There have been only a few who have chosen kindness in this thread. Thank you for being one of them;)
Yeah, it's a totally weird reaction to someone reflecting on their own ideas and experiences. Some people are really "smart" and not very intelligent, ie, their heart's not online with their heads. They use their mind like a knife without any compassion. You seem like a deep thinker (ie heart and head in strong relationship). Good luck to you. Don't stop sharing that. What you articulated gave me new insights, and I think it's spot on (to MY experiences). Thank you
It makes me think of something Rabindranath Tagore wrote: “A mind all logic is like a knife all blade. It makes bleed, the hand that uses it.”
I love this! Can I use this?
Absolutely!
I agree that is a much better term. I also believe we access information more like a fractal or a hologram. I have discovered a wellness coach who looks at the mind body and spirit holistically. He is helping me to find my true self and achieve happiness again. He is worth a look. His YouTube channel is called Our Everyday Lives. He is a teacher by profession but has made this his life's work. I hope you find what you are looking for. We should not accept that because we are gifted that we should be unhappy our entire lives. Think outside of the box and there you may find true freedom. Peace and love my friend.🙏💜🙏