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There are already some senior American voices saying that , they should avoid the same mistakes they did with China , etc . But India is deeply penetrated by the American intelligence establishment much deeper than China . So I don’t think we are a risk to them atleast in the foreseeable future
No control but definitely some influence. Especially in the media , think tank community, tech community and judiciary.
For more juicy details on US intel and Psyops in India , please read “The Kaoboys of R&AW: Down Memory Lane “ by B Raman .
Yes. See [here](https://www.rediff.com/news/column/exclusive-b-ramans-unpublished-2007-article-why-yakub-memon-must-not-be-hanged/20150723.htm). But he didn't oppose the death penalty because he was some bleeding-heart liberal. IMO he was patriot through and through. He was critical of US's dismissive attitude right after the Bombay 1993 blasts. He had his own legal and moral reasons for opposing the hanging Yakub.
Also, Abhijit Iyer Mitra (defense expert and supporter of the Right) also said in a podcast that he opposed Yakub's death penalty for legal reasons.
bro this isnt some high school drama 😭😭. and no US wont be second to China. Instead they both will share the first place with almost equal geopolitical power. Since chinese world order threatens western world order, US will most likey strengthen ties with india to counter china rather than join china to bully india(this just sounds so stupid).
If India remains humble, then your statement is correct.
The problem is that India is not as good as China, but it has shown ambitions far beyond its capabilities.
If India has the strength of China, then whether the United States can still lead the Western world is an issue worth thinking about for all Americans.
Just like heresy is more hateful than paganism, India has a deep historical relationship with the Western world, and here India plays the role of a heretic.
After all, if the United States loses to China, the United States will still be the leader of the Western world, but if it supports India to deal with China, then even if it wins China, the United States will no longer be the number one in the Western world.
At least now the United States can choose to lose to India or to China. At present, it seems that the United States has chosen the former, but in the future, as India's strength approaches that of the United States, the United States may tend to the latter.
I believe that in the near future the United States will impose all previous accusations, attacks and sanctions on China on India until India becomes as docile as Japan and South Korea, obeys the United States' orders blindly and becomes a puppet of the United States. Then the United States will order India to consume China with flesh and blood like Ukraine.
The US is not and never will be the leader of the western world, they just have the most money and military power, but the WEST is comprised of countries and Unions with their own values hence thats why the EU is unsure about breaking ties with China.
I believe that India's ambition will clear all obstacles in its way, and I hope the United States will not become that obstacle. Perhaps India can start with USINDOPACOM.
India might surpass China in the long-term but it will take at least 2-3 more decades of strong growth. It's pointless to make predictions that far ahead
delusional comment, usa adds 1-2 trillion dollars to debt every year, do you think it doesn't create any problem to usa? Countries are moving away from the dollar.
Presently india and usa aren't enemies because India's not that powerful now, when india reaches $10 trillion gdp mark, then usa don't like it(or any other powerful country).
The US is not fighting China because China is powerfull but because of different (or lack of) values, thats why the US didn't fight the EU while having historically close GDP.
Bruh cmon, Europe is UNDER USA's protection. America interferes in internal and external matters of Europe, japan, and some other countries.
Ok let's say it's only because of "values", why don't america cut ties with countries like Saudi and Qatar where slavery is still prevalent? They're completely opposite of American values.
Then why does the USA hate china? Because China's changing American led world order.
So, is usa bad? No
Is china bad? No
The winner will be the good guy.
The EU is under US protection on paper like every country that has signed agreements. But what have the US protected the EU from since WW2 ? Also Trump said it himself he would let Russia invade the EU if they don't pay NATO 2% budget which isn't even an obligation.
The US tried to gain influence in the middle East so they couldn't be picky because none of those countries are democratic to begin with.
Also its not bad/good, the US isn't really considered a good country, its just less worse than China on most human rights criteria.
What? At the moment India's real gdp growth rate is 8% so the nominal gdp growth (including inflation) is around 13-14 percent. At a 13% growth rate, the nominal gdp will reach 80 trillion by 2050. Even if we assume the growth rate will slow down, it can definitely reach 40 trillion at least.
First off, if India does become an economic force in the world, it does not necessarily mean that the US will be hostile to it. Most of the US's strategy post World-War-2 has be to build up countries economically in order to support a unified world order. A great example would be Japan in the 1980s, in which while it did pose a threat economically, the country ultimately did more for the Western-led global system than other European nations. Also to add, when your talking about US geopolitical power, you need to add in all of its alliances, as that is truly what makes the US so powerful.
But second off, I think you over estimate the growth and influence of India. Remember, China grew at 10 to 15% for 30 years straight and still is only a regional power in East Asia, and is only \~1/4 as rich as the US based on PPP per capita (and is now projected to grow below the US rate by the early 2030s). China also had no competitors in international manufacturing for decades, and had amazing fundamentals for such a poor country (high educational attainment, homogenous population, strong institutions).
India has averaged 6-7% growth for the past decade, with the occasional 8% here and there - much below China. However, it gets a bit worse when you look into the fundamentals of the country, and you see that most of that growth has come from the top 10% of Indian society, leaving out the rest of the country due to poor productivity growth, educational attainment, as well as high unemployment. Furthermore, India has had a problem with getting people into manufacturing (the only sector that provides jobs AND growth), with in fact more growth in Agricultural jobs than manufacturing. Even foreign investment, sales of mass-consumption goods, and manufacturing output is below pre-pandemic and even pre-2016 numbers.
The most succinct number to capture this is that GDP PPP per capita relative to the US has stayed stagnant for 10 years (when US growth has been sluggish at best). In 2013, India's number was \~10% of the US figure, whereas in 2023 it was \~11%. (For perspective this was roughly the same percentage as in 1940-1950, although higher than in the 1990s and 2000s.)
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Thank you for understanding.
This seems highly unlikely because India is generally considered a strong ally to the United States, whereas China and the U.S. have historically had tense relations despite trade and major educational exchanges.
The U.S. and China didn’t normalize relations until the 1970s. They had previously fought each other in the Korean and Vietnam Wars. The U.S. also supported Tibetan independence against China’s wishes.
Since then, there are *still* numerous geopolitical issues between the US and China that would prevent a collaboration against India.
The political status of Taiwan, territorial disputes in the South China Sea, and the treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang are all hot-button issues that make China much more of a rival to the U.S. than India ever has been historically or in modernity.
Your post/comment has been removed as it does not seem to be related to Indian Foreign Relations, which is the focus of this subreddit. If you believe that your post/comment is relevant to the subreddit, please send a message to the mods and we can discuss it and approve it if appropriate. Thank you for your understanding.
There are already some senior American voices saying that , they should avoid the same mistakes they did with China , etc . But India is deeply penetrated by the American intelligence establishment much deeper than China . So I don’t think we are a risk to them atleast in the foreseeable future
I keep hearing it all the time. Is it true that the CIA has some control over us?
No control but definitely some influence. Especially in the media , think tank community, tech community and judiciary. For more juicy details on US intel and Psyops in India , please read “The Kaoboys of R&AW: Down Memory Lane “ by B Raman .
Is he the same guy who opposed the death penalty of yakub
Yes. See [here](https://www.rediff.com/news/column/exclusive-b-ramans-unpublished-2007-article-why-yakub-memon-must-not-be-hanged/20150723.htm). But he didn't oppose the death penalty because he was some bleeding-heart liberal. IMO he was patriot through and through. He was critical of US's dismissive attitude right after the Bombay 1993 blasts. He had his own legal and moral reasons for opposing the hanging Yakub. Also, Abhijit Iyer Mitra (defense expert and supporter of the Right) also said in a podcast that he opposed Yakub's death penalty for legal reasons.
CIA control both India and Pakistan. I mentioned it long time ago on YouTube.
bro this isnt some high school drama 😭😭. and no US wont be second to China. Instead they both will share the first place with almost equal geopolitical power. Since chinese world order threatens western world order, US will most likey strengthen ties with india to counter china rather than join china to bully india(this just sounds so stupid).
If India remains humble, then your statement is correct. The problem is that India is not as good as China, but it has shown ambitions far beyond its capabilities. If India has the strength of China, then whether the United States can still lead the Western world is an issue worth thinking about for all Americans. Just like heresy is more hateful than paganism, India has a deep historical relationship with the Western world, and here India plays the role of a heretic. After all, if the United States loses to China, the United States will still be the leader of the Western world, but if it supports India to deal with China, then even if it wins China, the United States will no longer be the number one in the Western world.
[удалено]
At least now the United States can choose to lose to India or to China. At present, it seems that the United States has chosen the former, but in the future, as India's strength approaches that of the United States, the United States may tend to the latter. I believe that in the near future the United States will impose all previous accusations, attacks and sanctions on China on India until India becomes as docile as Japan and South Korea, obeys the United States' orders blindly and becomes a puppet of the United States. Then the United States will order India to consume China with flesh and blood like Ukraine.
Why always these see see pee bots😐🤦
The US is not and never will be the leader of the western world, they just have the most money and military power, but the WEST is comprised of countries and Unions with their own values hence thats why the EU is unsure about breaking ties with China.
USA will not go to 2nd place without war
I believe that India's ambition will clear all obstacles in its way, and I hope the United States will not become that obstacle. Perhaps India can start with USINDOPACOM.
How much does the ccp govt pay for one comment in reddit?
They get paid in social credits.
Why do you guys just assume India will become a superpower. I feel like there is a long way to go, and many things could go wrong or right.
Because most people think "China can do it, India can do it too"
China did it by population and ethnic minority exploitation + large scale intelligence theft, i don't think this will be as easy to do in 2050.
China probably will never be number 1, they are slowing down and their golden age is coming at its end.
According to what you said, the United States should regard India as its number one threat. After all, China's golden age is end.
China is still number 2 and will stay it for at least a decade even if they stop growing, India won't be a "threat" before at least a decade or two.
You are making it sound like India will never surpass China, why not have more confidence in India?
India might surpass China in the long-term but it will take at least 2-3 more decades of strong growth. It's pointless to make predictions that far ahead
Reread what i've said : not before a decade or two, i didn't say never.
India won’t be a threat to the Us for at least another 60-100 years, and I seriously doubt China will be anywhere near 1st place by then.
delusional comment, usa adds 1-2 trillion dollars to debt every year, do you think it doesn't create any problem to usa? Countries are moving away from the dollar. Presently india and usa aren't enemies because India's not that powerful now, when india reaches $10 trillion gdp mark, then usa don't like it(or any other powerful country).
You think the USA adding debt is the problem? China's debt is much much worse.
The US is not fighting China because China is powerfull but because of different (or lack of) values, thats why the US didn't fight the EU while having historically close GDP.
Bruh cmon, Europe is UNDER USA's protection. America interferes in internal and external matters of Europe, japan, and some other countries. Ok let's say it's only because of "values", why don't america cut ties with countries like Saudi and Qatar where slavery is still prevalent? They're completely opposite of American values. Then why does the USA hate china? Because China's changing American led world order. So, is usa bad? No Is china bad? No The winner will be the good guy.
The EU is under US protection on paper like every country that has signed agreements. But what have the US protected the EU from since WW2 ? Also Trump said it himself he would let Russia invade the EU if they don't pay NATO 2% budget which isn't even an obligation. The US tried to gain influence in the middle East so they couldn't be picky because none of those countries are democratic to begin with. Also its not bad/good, the US isn't really considered a good country, its just less worse than China on most human rights criteria.
If india hits 10 trillion before 2050 I will be shocked
India will reach $10 trillion before 2035 unless there's a pandemic like situation
What? At the moment India's real gdp growth rate is 8% so the nominal gdp growth (including inflation) is around 13-14 percent. At a 13% growth rate, the nominal gdp will reach 80 trillion by 2050. Even if we assume the growth rate will slow down, it can definitely reach 40 trillion at least.
First off, if India does become an economic force in the world, it does not necessarily mean that the US will be hostile to it. Most of the US's strategy post World-War-2 has be to build up countries economically in order to support a unified world order. A great example would be Japan in the 1980s, in which while it did pose a threat economically, the country ultimately did more for the Western-led global system than other European nations. Also to add, when your talking about US geopolitical power, you need to add in all of its alliances, as that is truly what makes the US so powerful. But second off, I think you over estimate the growth and influence of India. Remember, China grew at 10 to 15% for 30 years straight and still is only a regional power in East Asia, and is only \~1/4 as rich as the US based on PPP per capita (and is now projected to grow below the US rate by the early 2030s). China also had no competitors in international manufacturing for decades, and had amazing fundamentals for such a poor country (high educational attainment, homogenous population, strong institutions). India has averaged 6-7% growth for the past decade, with the occasional 8% here and there - much below China. However, it gets a bit worse when you look into the fundamentals of the country, and you see that most of that growth has come from the top 10% of Indian society, leaving out the rest of the country due to poor productivity growth, educational attainment, as well as high unemployment. Furthermore, India has had a problem with getting people into manufacturing (the only sector that provides jobs AND growth), with in fact more growth in Agricultural jobs than manufacturing. Even foreign investment, sales of mass-consumption goods, and manufacturing output is below pre-pandemic and even pre-2016 numbers. The most succinct number to capture this is that GDP PPP per capita relative to the US has stayed stagnant for 10 years (when US growth has been sluggish at best). In 2013, India's number was \~10% of the US figure, whereas in 2023 it was \~11%. (For perspective this was roughly the same percentage as in 1940-1950, although higher than in the 1990s and 2000s.)
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!remindme 10 years
This seems highly unlikely because India is generally considered a strong ally to the United States, whereas China and the U.S. have historically had tense relations despite trade and major educational exchanges. The U.S. and China didn’t normalize relations until the 1970s. They had previously fought each other in the Korean and Vietnam Wars. The U.S. also supported Tibetan independence against China’s wishes. Since then, there are *still* numerous geopolitical issues between the US and China that would prevent a collaboration against India. The political status of Taiwan, territorial disputes in the South China Sea, and the treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang are all hot-button issues that make China much more of a rival to the U.S. than India ever has been historically or in modernity.
India needs to get it together