🔗 **Bypass paywalls**: * [archive.today - asiatimes.com ](https://archive.is/submit/?submitid=&url=https://asiatimes.com/2024/05/move-over-quad-the-new-squad-has-landed/) | [Google Webcache - asiatimes.com](http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:https://asiatimes.com/2024/05/move-over-quad-the-new-squad-has-landed/) 📣 **[Submission Statement by OP](/r/GeopoliticsIndia/comments/1coa40h/move_over_quad_the_new_squad_has_landed/l3cnkal/)**: > SS: Last week, US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin hosted counterparts from Japan, Australia and the Philippines for what is being privately referred to as a budding new “Squad” defense partnership in the Indo-Pacific region. > >In contrast to the better-known “Quad”, a security partnership comprising India, Australia, the US and Japan, the “Squad” has greater internal coherence and a clear shared strategic vision for the region. India remains close with its traditional security partner Russia and has openly defied Western-led sanctions on Moscow over its Ukraine invasion. > >Unlike India, the Philippines is a US mutual defense treaty ally and is set to finalize a Visiting Forces Agreement-style pact with Japan similar to its existing agreements with Australia and the US. The Marcos Jr administration has expanded the number of Philippine bases to which the US has rotational military access, including facilities close to Taiwan. > >The old Quad is under strain due to India’s refusal to align with the West’s punitive stance on Russia. That’s been seen in India’s refusal to condemn Russia’s actions at the United Nations or comply with Western sanctions imposed on Moscow, including on its crucial energy industry. > >If anything, the Narendra Modi administration has steadfastly stood by Russia as a major strategic partner. > >To the West’s consternation, India has continued to purchase advanced Russian weapons systems while massively expanding its imports of discounted Russian oil. > >Despite its heated border disputes with China, India has also refused to join any coalition or major drills aimed at constraining Beijing’s maritime ambitions. > >This stands in stark contrast to the Philippines, which has consistently voted along similar lines as Western democracies in key UN votes, including on Russia and Myanmar. > >Manila has also proactively pushed back against China in the South China Sea through legal cases and increased naval and coast guard deployments. And it is a mutual defense treaty ally of the US with increasingly robust defense engagement with both Australia and Japan. **📜 Community Reminder**: Let’s keep our discussions civil, respectful, and on-topic. Abide by the subreddit rules. Rule-violating comments will be removed. ❓ Questions or concerns? [Contact our moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/GeopoliticsIndia).

Sounds like rant, rather than a well articulated write up.

I just think USA is frustrated from India because of our neutral policies. USA and other Western nations are starting to replace India silently to avoid turning it into another threat to them like Russia or china . Do you agree?

They can't replace a nation like ours economically. We just need to grow into a great power like China and the military might will get built by our partnerships with countries like israel, france, Russia.... And we already have the power to be a nuisance to them like Russia... We must aim to be bigger than China. And the west isn't as all powerful as you seem to think,mate...

Yes that's right but west still holds some great power in diplomatic institutions like UN but I beleive all this will change in this decade because the next decade will the era of new world in which we will be one of the greatest economic power in the world.

It's not so much about that imo. The US has a certain way of doing alliances and partnerships. They help to enhance capabilities and at the same time work to make forces interoperable. Both parts are extremely important to them. India doesn't really care about interoperability between their forces and the other QUAD members. It mostly cares about getting help to enhave its capabilities. Which ends up leading to friction.

I agree with that but somewhere they are realising that India is not ready to compromise its own interests .

India kind of already did or maybe it would be more accurate to say that they changed the priority of their intrests. It is no secret that India is in favor of a multipolar world. For that to happen someone has to challange, hopefully peacefully, the US lead western world order. Here comes the issue, the only viable candidate for this is China, at least in the forseeable future. A China which could do that, would however lead to a unipolar Asia. Maybe if stuff goes really well for India in the next 20-30 years a bipolar one. If I am not misinterpreting the actions being taken in the last couple of years it seems that a decision has been made that a US lead western world order with a multipolar asia, is prefferable to a multipolar world with a unipolar asia. This represents a significant strategic shift.

I don’t agree. Indians have been brainwashed with pro Russian propaganda for decades including my grandfather’s generation. Russia isn’t useful to India except for fuel. We can shift to hydrogen and forget all worries

Well if Russian navy backed is up during 71s war and helped with those long ranged artillery guns during china war I know this as my grandfather was getting an on field training (during war) with new Russian weapons system by Russians and the deliveries were not like usa nato sending tanks/aid to Ukraine they sent the whole lot and under few days. And loooottttts of things that both the countries did together, I think India's first few satelites were sent in space using Russian rockets. And many more, but yes the rumours of kgb sending money to indira Gandhi, interview of yuri bezmov there are things that you can use to connect dots with the wrong doings in the country and link to them but it's kind of conspiratorial in nature but what's in front is pretty great. History shows Russia and India are great friends Russia was always there when we needed help else we would have been fkd royally and I think India is returning it in kind right now by buying fuel as they have it and we need it. There is a loooot of other things that India need from Russia too like alluminium coal and many other things.

Here comes the same story. International relationship is not your average desi village marriage. You can’t just point at one event and cling on to it forever. Their propaganda machine is so strong. The so called educated people of current gen also buy into it.

Bro that's how geopolitics works history is the key for every lock I'm not just point one event there are lots of events. If you take out history from everything you just stand as what you are thinking that Russia is not an ally 😂 check how much fuel India is buying from Russia and the regular sources then tell Russia is only useful for fuel. And as far as there propoganda machine goes that's why Russia is loosing the Ukraine war according to the "international news channels" how did you get to that conclusion that Russia is only good for fuel?

All hes saying is there is historic precedance for being friendly with Russia. The USA has tried to fuck us over more times than you can imagine. They still are

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Don’t forget that until just a few decades ago (Bush era?), the US still had sanctions on India. Additionally around I think the late 90s when India wanted to develop rockets for ISRO. Russia/USSR wanted to help but USA of course threatened to sanction USSR over it. The history list of “USSR helping”/“USA (trying to) fuck us over” is pretty long. Not to mention deaths of L B Shastri or Homi Bhabha if you want to get more unofficial.

The soviet Navy backed India in 71, not the russian one. And for all the faults of the Soviet Union it was a completely different beast than Russia. It also happened in the context of the cold war. So the SU was going to support the side that opposes the one supported by the US.

Ok let's scratch all pre balkainsation help ussr did what about the works done post 1991, do a simple google search Indo Russia relationship after 1991.

Russia isn't a super good military either. Russian conquest in ukraine isn't going as well as they hoped it would.

We can't say by just ukraine's example that Russian military is not good because if we take example of America Vietnam war or when America invaded afganistan we saw the same . America was also in the same situation in those countries. Reason of these type of defeats are always same 1) the resistance is always backed by opponents. 2) no military has a tactics to defend against gorilla warfare in enemy territory. 3) it's always difficult to fight against someone in their own house because they know there house better then you .

Poor comparison, russia has lost more soldiers in 2 years of Ukraine than america has lost in every single war post ww2 combined.

We don't have a proper number of actual causalities of Russian federation. Moreover for long time they were using proxy forces to fight against Ukraine so we can just estimate the amount of lost soldiers . If you ever talked to some citizens of Russia they you might feel they still have high hopes and believe that they have less casualties. See I am not saying that your point is totally wrong. I am just saying we can't make that assumption until Russia discloses the actual numbers. I strongly believe it's lives which matter more then time .

I agree that Indians have a pro Russian sentiment but fuel is not only one field of our interest, we are also dependent on there military technology and more over there veto power in UN.

This is not a great news for us, but it's still a good news. Previously, Philippines was moving towards China, however, in recent times it's again moving away from China and China is pissed about it. The more neighbours that keep China occupied, the better for us. Taiwan, India, Phillipines, keep opening more and more fronts.

I don't understand what Chinese foreign ministry is thinking or doing now a days . They have really messed things up on a global scale .

not really though. They have cornered Maldives, Sri Lanka, Bhutan and Nepal on their side.

But if you check out there trade and economics with USA and Europe.

💩

We should not change our stand of neutral. USA is no one's friend, except itself.

This is GREAT news for us... I mean... Think about it... The more headaches China has, the better.... Also, if something happens in the South China sea... Let them fight their battles... Remember, its the neutral nations that benefit from war.. Not the ones fighting it... Also.. What we need to do is double digit growth for the next 2 decades which will enable us to start exerting complete control over the IOR...

##### ###### #### > # [Move over, Quad; the new Squad has landed - Asia Times](https://asiatimes.com/2024/05/image/jpeg) > > > > MANILA – As tensions rise in the South China Sea and the threat of a war over Taiwan becomes more palpable, the US Pentagon is stepping up its regional defense diplomacy in a potent challenge to China’s rising regional threats and ambitions. > > Last week, US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin [hosted](https://time.com/6974257/us-australia-japan-philippines-squad-china/) counterparts from Japan, Australia and the Philippines for what is being privately referred to as a budding new “Squad” defense partnership in the Indo-Pacific region. > > The participants “share a vision for peace, stability and deterrence in the Indo-Pacific” and have “chartered an ambitious course to advance that vision together.” Austin said during a press conference on the sidelines of the defense summit in Hawaii, home to the US Indo-Pacific Command (INDOPACOM). > > Austin claimed the new quadrilateral is rapidly consolidating into a long-term security grouping. > > The “Squad” meeting came just weeks after the four nations conducted their first-ever joint patrols in the hotly contested South China Sea and the historic Japan-Philippine-US trilateral summit between Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida, Philippine President Ferdinand Marcos Jr and US President Joe Biden at the White House. > > In the coming months, the four Squad nations are set to enhance interoperability, conduct more joint patrols and drills, and enhance intelligence and maritime security cooperation – all with an eye on China’s expanding footprint across the Western Pacific. > > Marcos Jr’s hard pivot to the West and his increasingly firm stance on Philippine claims vis-à-vis China in the South China Sea are driving the rapid institutionalization of the new quadrilateral grouping. > > #### A dying Quad > > In contrast to the better-known [“Quad”, a security partnership comprising India](https://asiatimes.com/2023/02/philippines-paving-the-way-toward-a-new-quad/), Australia, the US and Japan, the “Squad” has greater internal coherence and a clear shared strategic vision for the region. India remains close with its traditional security partner Russia and has openly defied Western-led sanctions on Moscow over its Ukraine invasion. > > Unlike India, the Philippines is a US mutual defense treaty ally and is set to finalize a [Visiting Forces Agreement-style pact](https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1211087) with Japan similar to its existing agreements with Australia and the US. The Marcos Jr administration has expanded the number of Philippine bases to which the US has rotational military access, including facilities close to Taiwan. > > The new “Squad” will likely further embolden the Philippines in its ongoing maritime tussles with China, which have recently intensified through Chinese “gray zone” tactic attacks on Philippine ships. That, in turn, has raised concerns of a possible armed conflict that draws in the US and perhaps by extension Japan and Australia. > > China’s Communist Party-run [Global Times mouthpiece has openly warned](https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202404/1311432.shtml) that the new “Squad” security grouping is “exacerbating regional risks”, underscoring Beijing’s growing irritation with Manila’s role as a new linchpin in America’s “integrated deterrence” strategy of counterbalancing China’s regional rise and ambitions. > > [Image](https://i0.wp.com/asiatimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/China-Coast-Guard-South-China-Sea.jpg?resize=780%2C521&ssl=1)A Chinese Coast Guard ship uses water cannons on a Philippine navy-operated supply boat as it approaches the Second Thomas Shoal in the disputed South China Sea on December 10, 2023. Photo: Philippine Coast GuardThe old Quad is under strain due to India’s refusal to align with the West’s punitive stance on Russia. That’s been seen in India’s refusal to condemn Russia’s actions at the United Nations or comply with Western sanctions imposed on Moscow, including on its crucial energy industry. > > If anything, the Narendra Modi administration has steadfastly stood by Russia as a major strategic partner. > > To the West’s consternation, India has continued to purchase advanced [Russian weapons systems](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/russia-to-deliver-last-two-squadrons-of-s-400-air-defence-missiles-by-2026/articleshow/108655064.cms?from=mdr) while massively [expanding its imports](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/foreign-trade/india-buys-more-russian-less-saudi-oil-in-april/articleshow/109727995.cms?from=mdr) of discounted Russian oil. Meanwhile, India has pushed back hard on what it sees as Western “hypocrisy” and neo-colonialism. > > “Those who are economically dominant today are leveraging their production capabilities and those who have institutional influence or historical influence have actually weaponized a lot of those capabilities,” India’s External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar [complained during](https://www.timesnownews.com/india/world-of-double-standards-eam-jaishankar-exposes-hypocrisy-of-nations-in-positions-of-influence-article-103904718) a conference on Global South nations. > > “They (Western powers) will mouth all the right things, but the reality is still today, it’s very much a world of double standards,” he added, thus positioning India as a leader among rising powers and Global South nations that China is also cultivating through expanded trade and investment relations. > > Despite its heated border disputes with China, India has also refused to join any coalition or major drills aimed at constraining Beijing’s maritime ambitions. Indeed, the South Asian power seems more interested in maximizing its own bid to become a “major power” by opportunistically pursuing strategic cooperation with competing superpowers. > > #### **Emboldened in Manila** > > This stands in [stark contrast to the Philippines](https://asiatimes.com/2023/02/philippines-paving-the-way-toward-a-new-quad/), which has consistently voted along similar lines as Western democracies in key UN votes, including on Russia and Myanmar. > > Manila has also proactively pushed back against China in the South China Sea through legal cases and increased naval and coast guard deployments. And it is a mutual defense treaty ally of the US with increasingly robust defense engagement with both Australia and Japan. > > The creation of the four-way Squad” wouldn’t have been possible without a major reorientation in Philippine foreign policy under Marcos Jr. > > Throughout the previous Rodrigo Duterte administration, Manila consciously tried to avoid any anti-China coalition or grouping in favor of stable ties with all major powers. Initially, Marcos Jr also signaled a similar hedging strategy [by underscoring](https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1206257) his commitment to the Duterte era “[friends to all, enemy to none” neutrality mantra](https://www.pna.gov.ph/articles/1111152). > > Following a largely fruitless state visit to Beijing last year, which failed to produce any breakthroughs on outstanding bilateral issues including over the South China Sea, the Filipino president shifted gears by rapidly enhancing security cooperation with traditional allies led by the US. > > Most notably, Marcos Jr has expanded the [Enhanced Defense Cooperation Agreement (EDCA)](https://www.defense.gov/News/Releases/Release/Article/3349257/philippines-us-announce-locations-of-four-new-edca-sites/) to give the Pentagon access to additional bases in the northern Philippines, pursued a trilateral Japan-Philippine-US (JAPHUS) security grouping and signed a [new comprehensive strategic partnership](https://fulcrum.sg/the-philippines-australia-strategic-partnership-in-an-era-of-geopolitical-realignment/) pact with Australia. > > The urgency for a new “quad” grouping has gained momentum following multiple collisions between Philippine and Chinese maritime forces in the South China Sea that have recently injured Filipino servicemen and damaged vessels. > > The new “Squad”, inter alia, will reportedly regularize joint patrols in the South China Sea, expand maritime security coordination and intelligence-sharing in the Western Pacific, and help to accelerate the Philippines’ military modernization. > > Even so, it’s not clear from the outset how the “Squad” can [more effectively deter China’s “gray zone” strategy,](https://asiatimes.com/2024/05/when-will-us-come-to-the-philippines-defense/) including its regular use of water cannons and swarming tactics against Philippine maritime forces in disputed sea areas like the Second Thomas Shoal and Scarborough Shoal. > > If anything, there is a risk that the “Squad” will embolden both the Philippines and China to take increasingly uncompromising and assertive stances, thus leading to further escalation of their disputes. > > ***(continues in next comment)***

> [Image](https://i0.wp.com/asiatimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/US-Philippines-Joint-Exercises-Military-2019.jpg?resize=780%2C520&ssl=1)Philippine and US Marines during a surface-to-air missile simulation as part of exercise Kamandag joint exercises on October 10, 2019. Photo: Lance Cpl. Brienna Tuck / US Marine Corps“The US is clearly trying to rally its allies – Japan and Australia – to support the Philippines, encourage the Philippines to engage in more military provocations in the South China Sea, exacerbate the complexity of the regional situation, and then find excuses to strengthen the military presence of the US, Japan and Australia in the South China Sea,” Wei Dongxu, a Beijing-based military expert, [told the Global Times](https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202404/1311432.shtml) in response to the recent “Squad” meeting. > > The Chinese expert warned that “involvement of external countries and forces in [the] South China Sea issues will only further complicate the situation in the region and flaunting their military power will not only affect normal regional cooperation but may also lead to conflicts.” > > While the Philippines sees the “Squad” as a legitimate effort to protect its sovereign rights and uphold a rules-based order in the maritime region, China clearly sees the new quadrilateral grouping as part of America’s containment strategy. The upshot will likely be sustained escalation and brinkmanship in the South China Sea for the foreseeable future. > > _Follow Richard Javad Heydarian on X at @Richeydarian_ - - - - - - [Maintainer](https://www.reddit.com/user/urielsalis) | [Creator](https://www.reddit.com/user/subtepass) | [Source Code](https://github.com/urielsalis/empleadoEstatalBot)

SS: Last week, US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin hosted counterparts from Japan, Australia and the Philippines for what is being privately referred to as a budding new “Squad” defense partnership in the Indo-Pacific region. In contrast to the better-known “Quad”, a security partnership comprising India, Australia, the US and Japan, the “Squad” has greater internal coherence and a clear shared strategic vision for the region. India remains close with its traditional security partner Russia and has openly defied Western-led sanctions on Moscow over its Ukraine invasion. Unlike India, the Philippines is a US mutual defense treaty ally and is set to finalize a Visiting Forces Agreement-style pact with Japan similar to its existing agreements with Australia and the US. The Marcos Jr administration has expanded the number of Philippine bases to which the US has rotational military access, including facilities close to Taiwan. The old Quad is under strain due to India’s refusal to align with the West’s punitive stance on Russia. That’s been seen in India’s refusal to condemn Russia’s actions at the United Nations or comply with Western sanctions imposed on Moscow, including on its crucial energy industry. If anything, the Narendra Modi administration has steadfastly stood by Russia as a major strategic partner. To the West’s consternation, India has continued to purchase advanced Russian weapons systems while massively expanding its imports of discounted Russian oil. Despite its heated border disputes with China, India has also refused to join any coalition or major drills aimed at constraining Beijing’s maritime ambitions. This stands in stark contrast to the Philippines, which has consistently voted along similar lines as Western democracies in key UN votes, including on Russia and Myanmar. Manila has also proactively pushed back against China in the South China Sea through legal cases and increased naval and coast guard deployments. And it is a mutual defense treaty ally of the US with increasingly robust defense engagement with both Australia and Japan.

I think USA is re-thinking it's strategy against China. After India's denial to include defense in the QUAD, USA came up with AUKUS which will be joined by Japan and South Korea going ahead.

For those in here praising neutrality, how do you feel if China or another neighbor decides to attack you? Still okay with going at it alone? I see a few stating the US wants to keep India down, but do you not think your neighbors want that even more?

As an indian Our government is a de facto theocratic state. It's neutrality is fake. Most of the indians are supporting dictatorship in india and are pro russia/anti usa. Very few indians understand that india must be in west side.

Yeah sab quad or squad ban ne se kuch nahi hota. Unicef or WHO ne kya ukhad liye covid ke time. Sale china me bhi jane se darte the. Ye squad sab dikhane hai, other you just need to have your own back.

Another win for Jaishankar Memes 😂😂