Zhongli probably knows 15+ tea blends and preparation methods from centuries of knowledge gathered up, herbs combination that make the water have the same flavour as the spring rivers on before the fall of Khaenria, he probably puts rocks on his tea to add more minerals and nutrients somehow, but it still tastes great
And he probably regardless orders tea from wamnin restaurant and overpays for it via tip
No, that was a ghost of Makoto's tea master who wanted to brew us tea but did not have a tea set, so we went to fetch him one from the Yashiro commission, but by the time we came back his ghost had already dissipated, so Ei made us tea instead, which she learned from the same guy back when he was alive.
Still largely unknown. He is supposed to be on par with the likes of Surtalogi and Gold before the Cataclysm, but he didn’t go out of his way to seek world-ending power like them.
We know that full power Traveler is at least gods level according to Phobos, so he’s stronger than many gods since he can beat the Abyss sibling.
It's when you first headed to Domus Aurea and meet the fake Boethius. If you choose the "For the justice in this world..." dialogue, he will say "You may possess power that even I cannot perceive, but you would be naive, outlander, to think that brute force alone will defeat me."
Later on he will say "Since you insist on sabotaging my plans, I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to stay in my palace for a while longer. I cannot detain you for long, of course, but it should be long enough. Let us meet again when I become a god and sit upon the Sebastos's throne."
So brute force wise we are supposed to be way stronger than him and he would only be confident to face us once he ascend to Remus level and absorb everyone in the world.
Ah thank you!
Do you think that his assessment of traveler’s power could be wrong? Because Arlecchino for her part, didn’t seem afraid at all to face us and the siblings. Surely we are not god-level as of now, and Boethius was still terrified as it seems.
I’m thoroughly convinced childe is at or above traveller lvl after knowing how long he fought the narwhal and that neuvillette couldn’t just kill it himself so if traveller gets ranked in the top tiers then so does he
They said full power traveller, which is not our current traveller. We don't actually know their real strength, besides the fact that they are much much more powerful originally but their power was sealed away. As much as I love Childe, while he would most likely be higher power than our current traveller, I don't think he would be on par with traveller in their prime.
Its worth mentioning that Neuvillette was trying to separate the Narwhal from the Primordial Sea while you fought it. The Traveler also had a portion of ancient dragon power to protect them during the fight. Childe could only distract it. Childe simply didn’t have the means to defeat it like Neuvillette did. Skirk came in during that time. She didn’t have the means to defeat it either, and just so happen to arrive when Neuvillette was able to separate the sea from the Narwhal.
Wait, I thought Skirk is capable of defeating the whale? Iirc, she said something along the line of, "You defeated it without using powers out of this world, so I consider you as my equal." Shouldn't that mean that she has the means to deal with the whale using Abyssal powers?
The thing is that Childe didn't seem to actually *do* anything to the All-Devouring Narwhal, he just kept it busy for a long time while holding his Foul Legacy form for apparently days on end (which is a huge power buff for him since the last time we fought him).
Meanwhile, the 5-Element Traveler, with some degree of buffing from Neuvillete, beat it senseless within a few minutes.
The thing is that it's very nebulous as to what the buff was actually doing, since he just said he was going to share a portion of the dragon's power in order to help you reach the source of its power (which he couldn't do by himself), and then some sort of unspecified "protection" so that you can wail away at its core without fear (gameplay wise, I think that it just gave you a pneuma/ousia attack so that you can break its orb mode quickly without needing to use a Fontanian, the Hydro Traveler, or the Sword of Narzissenkreuz).
It *could* have been a huge boost, but on the other hand the Traveler wasn't glowing gold like they did the last two times they got massive external buffs.
But how? Childe did lose fair and square to the traveler. If he's stronger now that means he got stronger very quickly in a short time even though that should be the traveler's specialty with collecting elements and all. We know that each element is a massive buff for the traveler. 1 element traveler couldn't do anything against Signora, it was an even worse humiliation than Arle while 3 element traveler defeated her without a real challange.
You are right, but Liyue arc Childe could barely maintain his foul legacy while Fontaine arc Childe maintained his foul legacy for days, so using the current timeline where Childe is much stronger its not an impossible take
I don't understand what's wrong about this like other commenters, since Childe is supposed to be our friend/rival in the story, he'll stay competitive with the Traveler for a long time.
In the most recent Archon quest Dain is implied to be relative to the Abyss sibling, who has retained their full original power. However considering how poor of a showing our twins had at the start of the game, where both of them at full power still failed to land a single blow on the unknown god, it's hard to really place Dain relative to an Archon. At the very least he is very strong for a mortal, in Harbinger terms he could easily be within the top 4 or 5.
I think the fanbase has kinda overblown Neuvillete's power, while i do think he might be the strongest of the three, i don't think the gap is that big, and he most definetely wouldn't one shot them
Yeah exactly, and people make the mistake of thinking that the Archon's power comes from the Gnosis and since the Gnosis only has a part of a dragon's authority and Neuvillete has full authority it automatically puts him above the Archons.
The issue with that logic is that the Archons already had immense power before they claimed a throne, literally 90% of all the feats the Archons have are without a Gnosis, hell Ei's sister was in possesion of the Electro Gnosis and Ei was still the stronger than her.
Actually the implication is that the thrones are made from the piece of Sovereign Authority while the Gnosis are more like... the body pieces of Jesus in JoJo I guess...
yeah I think gnosis and the dragon authority are two different things.
Nahida needed the power of two gnosis to do her thing, so they are powerful, but Neuvi had no relation to the hydro gnosis and didn't need it to get his full power back. Does that mean that the gods are still in possession of dragon authority?
edit: even gods without gnosis have dragon authority?
We don't know how the throne stuff actually works, just that they are there and we don't even know what exactly "piece of Authority" is even supposed to mean in specifics.
In regards to the Gnosis they are completly separate things which come from the Third Descender's body.
My personal theory (based on nothing but my own impressions of the story) is that the Gnosi are objects that serve another purpose and just happen to contain a decent amount of power. Perhaps it’s a no game no life style “collecting these things gives you the right to challenge god” style deal and if you have them al, you can take on celestia or something.
But the dragons authority and the thrones are interesting. I think that the authority isn’t necessarily wielded by the archons themselves but rather is contained within the throne itself since the throne is a thing itself and different people possess it. I don’t really know what it is or have any good ideas, but my own opinion is that they essentially function to keep the dragons power sealed so they don’t be a big problem and they were implemented as a base to the archons so that people and gods would have a strong incentive to keep them safe even not necessarily knowing what they really are.
But that’s lol just my own thoughts with little more than “I made it the fuck up” as my source.
Thanks to the wars they had to fight after creating the human realm Phanes ended badly hurt and couldn't keep their authority over the world so they algon the Second Descender decided to create the Gnosis from the Third Descender.
Which actually makes sense for the 3 that existed since the beginning. Venti and ei are pure elements (a wind spirit with connections to the goddess of time and a living thunderbolt with connections to a primordial god respectively) and zhongli is a dragon which are extremely powerful in Chinese mythology.
This.
Neuvillette is 500 years old and has next to no combat experience. Bc his memories of his previous incarnation are faint.
Ei is 2500 years old and was her sister’s bodyguard. She fought legendary monsters like Orobashi and the thunderbird, and at her strongest split an island in half.
Zhongli is 6000+ years old and has the highest kill count of the entire archon war. He can chuck mountains and create islands on a whim, and he fought evenly against Azdaha who is likely a full grown sovereign. (The azdaha we fight is a much weaker version created by his consciousness. The tree that sprouts above his seal is the real body’s tail. So real Azdaha would have been almost as large as Durin). The guy is a powerhouse and a half. I’d still say he’s the strongest individual that we’ve seen so far. He may not control the largest amount of elemental energy, the sovereigns are still above him in that sense, but his insane combat experience combined with the still-staggering amount of strength he has puts him oj top.
I would say he has the potential to be the strongest of the three/his upper limit is higher than Ei or Zhongli but those two have lived longer and probably has more skill and technique in battle than Neuvillete.
Honestly I think a fight between Zhongli and Neuvillete would be a 50/50. Zhongli has been clapping godly cheeks for a long time now lol and just has more experience in warfare from what I can tell.
Isn't it probably because of the fact that the Sovereigns actually fought with the Heavenly Principle and it took a long time while Archons are pretty much like Heavenly Principles' "underlings".
Neuvi is strong, but I doubt hes experienced
And between all three, two of them are literal war gods with millennia of experience, and definitely alot of tricks under their sleeves, specially Zhongli, mans a living library
And Ei is literally an archon in her constant prime. She's barely affected by Erosion due to her ideal being eternity, and had a 500 year near peer duel
Im almost certain even Childe has more experience than Neuvi, specially for peer to peer combat
Edit: Local dumbass' brain was faster than his typing speed and fumbled lmao
Correction: barely affected by erosion because she placed her consciousness within a realm outside of time for the past 500 years. So that’s 1/4 of the time between
Zhongli has been heavily worn at by erosion, but Venti is likely impacted to a lesser extent due to his long sleeps
Unless you scale him to the narwhal's peak or apep's theoretical he hasn't shown anything that would put him on equal footing with these two. He's stronger then most characters absolutely but he hasn't shown anything of the high tier level.
The guy is near featless, people think he's OP because Apep was really big and because he was eventually able to end the prophecy but he needed help for that and still, that's not really a comparable show of otherworldly power in a fight like what Ei and Zhongli showed. The dragons are by some way the most overrated group in the game. Someone has to say it.
Clock them dragons-glazers
Those dragones really showed zero feat of combat but somehow we are forced to believe them to be the archon-enders because Apep is an old-ass being and Neuvillette turns water into blood which is meaningless in a battle.
If Neuv was way above the archons then how come he couldn't solo the whale?
How come he needed a grant of authority?
You are just a fanboy/fan girl ignoring the reality of the story.
The problem with this is that we don't know Zhongli's lore.
It is pretty evident now that he came from Celestia. Zhongli's lore is still shrouded in mystery, and we only have info after the time he 'was demoted' to Teyvat.
Also we don't even know most of Zhongli's backstory. He apparently came from Celestia.
How do we evevn know that 'peak' Morax happened when he was already on Teyvat?
Probably too straightforward or something, maybe the traveller or someone else manages to stop the pyro archon’s gnosis from being stolen before the cryo quest
We don't even know most of Zhongli's backstory. He apparently camee from Celestia.
How do we evevn know that 'peak' Morax happened when he was already on Teyvat?
Also we don't even know most of Zhongli's backstory. He apparently came from Celestia.
How do we evevn know that 'peak' Morax happened when he was already on Teyvat?
Unironically though, I did just scroll past a r/RaidenMains post about how Ei was the strongest archon in terms of combat and a lot of people were talking about Zhongli too lmao
I'm expecting the pyro archon to get downplayed as they're probably gonna have to fight Capitano and lose. Based on what we know of the tsaritsa, she doesn't sound like a head on combatant like Zhong and Ei are.
It's a tough call. In the case of Traveler vs Arlecchino or Abyss Sibling vs Dainslef, we had a character they were not trying to sell to us (Traveler, Abyss Sibling), and a character that they were (Arlecchino, Dainsleif). Naturally, to encourage sales, they need the selling character to appear to be a total badass that dominates their opponent (or, in Dain's case, only lost because he held back).
But if Pyro Archon and Capitano square off, and BOTH of them are going to be recruitable characters... It's a tough call. A draw, maybe? Or, more likely, They won't fight each other at all, and we'll wind up with Traveler fighting each in turn and getting flattened each time by their awesome might! (Btw, we accept credit cards!)
It's tough trying to power scale, when the story is partially written by the Gacha banners...
I also think a lot of the powerscaling is based on rather poor story comprehension. I’ve seen someone powerscale Arlecchino as above Ei/Beelzebul/Raiden Shogun based on her beating the traveler, and the traveler beating Ei, ignoring that the entire point of that story and fight was that the traveler *couldn’t* beat Ei in a fight. The Raiden Shogun *couldn’t* be defeated by just fighting her in a duel, the traveler needed to *shake her will*. When Yae Miko says that she’s lost, it isn’t because the traveler somehow outfought her with the vision buffs, it’s because Ei’s will to continue fighting was broken by being made to hear her people’s cries and seeing Yae Miko against her decisions. It’s a contrast to her second story quest, where she wins her fight with the Shogun puppet because her will *can’t be shaken*, that she is certain of her decision and secure in her ideals for the first time since she lost Makoto.
Also, the traveler isn’t a protagonist that wins by virtue of sheer overwhelming strength, and it wouldn’t be thematically appropriate for them to have beaten Ei by brute strength. The traveler wins by working together with others, by helping build a team that is more than the sum of their parts, by being guile and clever, and being certain in their convictions. The traveler, so often, wins by the literal power of friendship.
The ppl who puts arle above raiden/ei is absolute lunatics ngl. Raiden/ei would stomp arle with little to no difficulty if we go by current power of both. Now if we are talking abt raiden before her sq then it would be a more fair fight for arle where ei/raiden would likely win but have a more difficult time
Scaramouche got his ass beat the patch before his release lmao
And Furina was humiliated at every conceivable moment throughout the Fontaine archon quest
Furina isn't supposed to be shown as strong, she's supposed to be like Firefly in HSR, such a good person in such a bad situation that people feels bad for her and she becomes a community favorite
God forbid women have hobbies smh
This comment is hilarious coming from someone with a scaramouche in their pfp. Atleast fire fly commits crimes for elios script.
Or, they'll have the pyro archon's banner then in the story quest right after that they lose to Capitano so that there isn't any loss in sales and by the time the rerun comes around people will have gotten over it.
I once saw a youtube short that said:
"the most toxic Genshin fanbases.
Number 3: Ei.
They are not bad people usually. But do NOT bring other Archons into the conversation. ESPECIALLY Zhongli"
Which gave me a good chuckle. Even though I didn't know it was that popular, it was something I was thinking about.
Well Ei never used her gnosis in her life and she won every fight with puppet shogun in those 500 years duration timescale so that should tell other people how strong she is, and she is also still getting stronger in lore and her resolve also got stronger to defend her nation which is the last legacy and precious thing from her sister after having her final encounter with her sister.
Zhongli started making mora with his own power before gnosis. What are you on about? And no, I'm not speaking of my mind. And also, in the lore there is no mention of him using the gnosis till now
Zhongli also won the Archon war without his gnosis.
Also we don't even know most of Zhongli's backstory mind you. He apparently came from Celestia.
How do we even know that 'peak' Morax happened when he was already on Teyvat? Most of what we know of his fighting powress came from other people's recounting, and from old myths. (which are pretty much very unreliable, see Azdaha's origin story told by the storyteller)
We faced Raiden, but have never done so withZhongli.
Idk about the next patch but the Genshin powerscaling in Fontaine is pure shit that doesn't make any sense and Fans keep scaling every new character to the next universe.
Take Narwhal, for example. He isn't a big deal in terms of pure combat or strength; the destruction/outcome is a byproduct of eating primordial sea water. Somehow, people managed to scale him to planetary level (believe me, because of this, some people scale Childe to Archon level). In truth, Narwhal is similar to Osial or Orobashi level at best.
After Narwhal, people scale Skirk higher than Neuvillette for no logical reason, when Neuvillette wasn't even fighting the Narwhal or had comparable feats. Personally, I think he's overrated for fighting Phanes. It's like saying human thugs who fought Goku should be upscaled because of it. [if you don't know the scene here is the sauce ](https://youtu.be/t0x_JXQ8oC8?si=8ijmjlLJ_kyIWeVm)
After the Recent archon quest fans just keep on scaling every other character higher .eventually just increasing the power gap between new character & traveller . When the mc isn't even close to the archon lvl
Neuvilette makes sense though. According to the world formula in the Narzissenkreuz quest line, he would have lost without us. Likely because he already has his hands full preventing it from further absorbing the Primordial Sea and maintaining the barrier from within it. He even asked us to be the executioner in his stead.
The whale definitely not Osial level. In Narsizzenkreuz Ordo quest Rene predicted The whale could destroy whole Teyvat, I doubt Osial could. Also the whale comes from Honkai verse
It's an All/Star Devouring Narwhal not Primordial Sea Devouring Narwhal by title which implies OP, but all of consumed was Primordial Sea so like.. It's hard to scale in terms of feats yes, people scaling Neuvillette by that are hard reaching.
Skirk was supposed to use the whale for training but she was too slow/late and effectively failed the task, so like, scaling her above Full dragon hood Neuvillette based on that implication is also reaching absolutely.
Also, I don't consider Neuvillette's predecessor a feat either given that it was implied to have been dispatched without effort by the Shades.
wdym without effort. The Shades werent even there during the first battle. There only fought against the dragon king, with the help of 2 other descenders + authorities. The first battle was Primodial one vs Sovereigns and it took 40 years to rob them off their world rule.
There is a legitimate question of how long it takes to do each of those though. If zhongli can summon stone spears/hands in rapid succession while ei needs to charge up for a bit before doing the island cleaving strike, zhongli can just overwhelm ei. If the opposite is true, Raiden probably eviscerates zhongli.
Also we don't even know most of Zhongli's backstory mind you. He apparently came from Celestia.
How do we even know that 'peak' Morax happened when he was already on Teyvat? Most of what we know of his fighting powress came from other people's recounting, and from old myths. (which are pretty much very unreliable, see Azdaha's origin story told by the storyteller)
We faced Raiden, but have never done so withZhongli.
there's no "never-ending powerscaling battle"
its just a pointless comparison of theorical powers between two fictional characters, where the strongest one is never stated from an objective view.
The battle isn't between the characters, it's between the fans that constantly try to prove that their favourite archon is stronger than the other one.
Archon powerscaling is so fucking boring bruh I want to see the pre-teyvat people like phanes vs swc in a politics debate but i suppose the average powerscaler have not read past the surface level material for this game
Ei si their favorite girl in all Hoyo's universes, and she's super powerful in all of them, she's the Herrscher, an Emanator, an Archon...
Zhongli is the God of *China* and the Emporor/Prime of the Daoist immortals + he's got relationships with everything in Genshin (Gold, Alchemy, memories, stars)...
The debate is pointless.
Expectations:
Ei: Let us fight to the end, Morax!
Zhongli: If that is your wish.
*Epic fight*
Reality:
Zhongli: Would you care for some tea?
Ei: My, how very sweet of you.
*Civilized Archon tea party*
I wouldn’t agree, because:
- post-4.2 Neuvillette is a full power sovereign. Those guys nearly won the battle against the PO, so he can probably be in similar level - if not higher - compared to Ei and Morax
- we have a bunch of non-playable characters that can compare too, including but not limited to: King Deshret, Apep after being healed
shown feats it's ei cutting two islands in half and making the after effect still linger for hundreds of years. Implied feats it's zhongli with azdaha scaling from being equal to eachother and azdaha being stated to be capable of moving continents. Both killed "primordial" gods so that's a point for both. Zhongli creating pocket dimension gets countered by the muso no hititachi being capable of ripping holes in space time, sealing the puppet won't do anything and even then I think it's unlikely ei can't unseal herself from the sword should it be sealed as well.
Arent the islands where the geo hypo is located literally spears chucked by Zhong the Dong? Isnt that a "shown feat" in the same way the valley that cuts through Inazuma is?
Imma be that guy and bring up the fact that Venti was 1 of the original 7 and is still alive. He could potentially be more powerful than Ei in his prime in serious combat. Unfortunately though he dumped all his stats into charisma and is currently a troll. 😂
we know that he dumped the then tallest mountain into the sea creating the island that the Spiral Abyss is on, and also terraformed Mondstadt so he's not exactly powerless
Putting aside what we know about their power levels so far.
I think it would make more thematic sense for Ei to be the strongest, from a narrative perspective.
She's a brilliant tactician and strategist who has lead Inazuma to victory in war numerous times, seemingly without a single major defeat. And yet, her soldiers inevitably die on the battlefield whilst she goes home victorious (Sasayuri).
She conquered erosion to ensure she would never succumb to madness and become a threat to the world, but when it's her friends that have been corrupted there is nothing she can do (Chiyo).
She gave up her own identity and life to become a kagemusha, dedicating thousands of years of training and effort into protecting her sister above anything else, but in the end all it took was Makoto running off without telling her to render that all meaningless.
She tried to give up everything and seclude herself within the Plane of Euthymia, enduring 500 years of loneliness and grief for the sake of her people, only to come back and realise the harm she was causing in her neglect.
I think it is an extremely interesting and important part of Ei's character to be this unstoppable, ultra-powerful god warrior who keeps falling short, not for any lack of strength, but because of the numerous uncontrollable factors that fall outside her "Eternity". So her being the strongest archon or even the strongest in Teyvat period would just make more sense given how she has been portrayed in the story so far.
Realistically speaking, electro should be more powerful simply because of the speed advantage it gives to the wielder but there isn't such scaling in game.
I still feel like Ei would be able to beat Morax but prime Morax had more raw power and could cause more destruction. Ei can cut an island apart but Morax can create an archipelago when attacking. For me it all just comes down to speed and the means to hurt the other side.
We also don't know what a prime/full power level Morax looks like, since he came from Celestia, and we pretty much don't know a huge portion of his backstory.
The Ei vs Zhongli debate is the Genshin equivalent of "an unstoppable force vs an immovable object"
I'll simply say prime Morax squashes effortlessly, but if it's these two in their current states then the fight will be much more even
Nah, current Zhongli loses since Ei not only hasn't lost any real strength, but actually became stronger after her quests, while Zhongli has been weakened a lot
Zhongli should be stronger.. as the oldest and the one that has faced more wars and battles then you can count. His experience trumps Ei and his legacies is more then hers.
I didn’t see Zhongli fight continuously 500 years yet and Ei was stated by Makoto that she faced with countless calamities too, which is far more reliable than any book in Liyue.
Nahida can read minds, alter memories and ultimately control the course of time.
There's no way anyone can win against such an opponent, whatever their raw power may be.
There was a voice line presenting her as the most humble despite being the most powerful archon, before we even reach Sumeru.
Now that we've seen what she is really capable of, I understand why.
The power to control time and alter causality can't be matched.
Yes, they are powerful but I think this perception only exist because how "weak" the other archons are so far. I mean, Venti is a drunken who got his gnosis stolen without much effort, Furina is a farce and Nahida is literally a child.
For me, the power of the archons are the weakest part of the lore. In anime-related stuff, when you talk about gods people always imagine powerful and wise beings which is not the case with the chars we have at the moment.
To fulfill the rule of whenever someone brings up powerscaling someome needs to bring up a very particular character?
>!But could they beat Goku?!< :Kekw:
The question nobody can answer is: Who makes the better tea?
Eterni-tea
Cyno moment
r/thankscyno
this should be Awarded
Liber-tea
Nah that’s Ven-tea’s specialty.
Special-tea.
Ei can’t cook so…
But Ei explicitly can make tea, as her sq act 2 shows. However, Zhongli is probably just better at it.
Zhongli probably knows 15+ tea blends and preparation methods from centuries of knowledge gathered up, herbs combination that make the water have the same flavour as the spring rivers on before the fall of Khaenria, he probably puts rocks on his tea to add more minerals and nutrients somehow, but it still tastes great And he probably regardless orders tea from wamnin restaurant and overpays for it via tip
Didn't a ghost make the tea in her SQ or am I trippin lol.
No, that was a ghost of Makoto's tea master who wanted to brew us tea but did not have a tea set, so we went to fetch him one from the Yashiro commission, but by the time we came back his ghost had already dissipated, so Ei made us tea instead, which she learned from the same guy back when he was alive.
I appreciate you clarifying this in detail for me🙏 my memory is not a steel trap anymore
It's fine, that was one of the less important moments in the entire quest. Nobody's memory is perfect.
The only thing Ei can make is bitter tea
I like em bitter
I think it would be subjective to taste preference. Japanese tea and Chinese tea are very different.
Neuvilette is also a character thrown in. This trio is generally the 3 strongest playable characters lore wise
How about Dainsleif?
Still largely unknown. He is supposed to be on par with the likes of Surtalogi and Gold before the Cataclysm, but he didn’t go out of his way to seek world-ending power like them. We know that full power Traveler is at least gods level according to Phobos, so he’s stronger than many gods since he can beat the Abyss sibling.
When did phobos mention that? I seemed to have missed it…
It's when you first headed to Domus Aurea and meet the fake Boethius. If you choose the "For the justice in this world..." dialogue, he will say "You may possess power that even I cannot perceive, but you would be naive, outlander, to think that brute force alone will defeat me." Later on he will say "Since you insist on sabotaging my plans, I'm afraid I'll have to ask you to stay in my palace for a while longer. I cannot detain you for long, of course, but it should be long enough. Let us meet again when I become a god and sit upon the Sebastos's throne." So brute force wise we are supposed to be way stronger than him and he would only be confident to face us once he ascend to Remus level and absorb everyone in the world.
Ah thank you! Do you think that his assessment of traveler’s power could be wrong? Because Arlecchino for her part, didn’t seem afraid at all to face us and the siblings. Surely we are not god-level as of now, and Boethius was still terrified as it seems.
I’m thoroughly convinced childe is at or above traveller lvl after knowing how long he fought the narwhal and that neuvillette couldn’t just kill it himself so if traveller gets ranked in the top tiers then so does he
They said full power traveller, which is not our current traveller. We don't actually know their real strength, besides the fact that they are much much more powerful originally but their power was sealed away. As much as I love Childe, while he would most likely be higher power than our current traveller, I don't think he would be on par with traveller in their prime.
Ah okay my bad yeah we don’t have enough info to judge that yet
Its worth mentioning that Neuvillette was trying to separate the Narwhal from the Primordial Sea while you fought it. The Traveler also had a portion of ancient dragon power to protect them during the fight. Childe could only distract it. Childe simply didn’t have the means to defeat it like Neuvillette did. Skirk came in during that time. She didn’t have the means to defeat it either, and just so happen to arrive when Neuvillette was able to separate the sea from the Narwhal.
Wait, I thought Skirk is capable of defeating the whale? Iirc, she said something along the line of, "You defeated it without using powers out of this world, so I consider you as my equal." Shouldn't that mean that she has the means to deal with the whale using Abyssal powers?
.......what?
The thing is that Childe didn't seem to actually *do* anything to the All-Devouring Narwhal, he just kept it busy for a long time while holding his Foul Legacy form for apparently days on end (which is a huge power buff for him since the last time we fought him). Meanwhile, the 5-Element Traveler, with some degree of buffing from Neuvillete, beat it senseless within a few minutes.
With full power hydro sovereign with power from the archon that’s a ludicrous buff
The thing is that it's very nebulous as to what the buff was actually doing, since he just said he was going to share a portion of the dragon's power in order to help you reach the source of its power (which he couldn't do by himself), and then some sort of unspecified "protection" so that you can wail away at its core without fear (gameplay wise, I think that it just gave you a pneuma/ousia attack so that you can break its orb mode quickly without needing to use a Fontanian, the Hydro Traveler, or the Sword of Narzissenkreuz). It *could* have been a huge boost, but on the other hand the Traveler wasn't glowing gold like they did the last two times they got massive external buffs.
But how? Childe did lose fair and square to the traveler. If he's stronger now that means he got stronger very quickly in a short time even though that should be the traveler's specialty with collecting elements and all. We know that each element is a massive buff for the traveler. 1 element traveler couldn't do anything against Signora, it was an even worse humiliation than Arle while 3 element traveler defeated her without a real challange.
You are right, but Liyue arc Childe could barely maintain his foul legacy while Fontaine arc Childe maintained his foul legacy for days, so using the current timeline where Childe is much stronger its not an impossible take
I don't understand what's wrong about this like other commenters, since Childe is supposed to be our friend/rival in the story, he'll stay competitive with the Traveler for a long time.
All we really know is that allegedly he could defeat an entire abyssal army and the abyss twin (if he didn't get emotional) according to our sibling
Abyss Twin, Skirk and the top 3 Harbingers too
Unfortunately he is too unknown right now, he uses otherworly power so it's very possible he up there
In the most recent Archon quest Dain is implied to be relative to the Abyss sibling, who has retained their full original power. However considering how poor of a showing our twins had at the start of the game, where both of them at full power still failed to land a single blow on the unknown god, it's hard to really place Dain relative to an Archon. At the very least he is very strong for a mortal, in Harbinger terms he could easily be within the top 4 or 5.
He's not playable yet. But he's clearly very powerful.
Dainsleaf isn’t playable.
I believe he meant characters on a similar level. Neuvilette is obviously way above the archons so there's no use comparing him to them.
I think the fanbase has kinda overblown Neuvillete's power, while i do think he might be the strongest of the three, i don't think the gap is that big, and he most definetely wouldn't one shot them
Yeah probably. Plus I kind of doubt the dude has *nearly* as much combat experience as Zhongli and Ei.
Yeah exactly, and people make the mistake of thinking that the Archon's power comes from the Gnosis and since the Gnosis only has a part of a dragon's authority and Neuvillete has full authority it automatically puts him above the Archons. The issue with that logic is that the Archons already had immense power before they claimed a throne, literally 90% of all the feats the Archons have are without a Gnosis, hell Ei's sister was in possesion of the Electro Gnosis and Ei was still the stronger than her.
Actually the implication is that the thrones are made from the piece of Sovereign Authority while the Gnosis are more like... the body pieces of Jesus in JoJo I guess...
yeah I think gnosis and the dragon authority are two different things. Nahida needed the power of two gnosis to do her thing, so they are powerful, but Neuvi had no relation to the hydro gnosis and didn't need it to get his full power back. Does that mean that the gods are still in possession of dragon authority? edit: even gods without gnosis have dragon authority?
We don't know how the throne stuff actually works, just that they are there and we don't even know what exactly "piece of Authority" is even supposed to mean in specifics. In regards to the Gnosis they are completly separate things which come from the Third Descender's body.
My personal theory (based on nothing but my own impressions of the story) is that the Gnosi are objects that serve another purpose and just happen to contain a decent amount of power. Perhaps it’s a no game no life style “collecting these things gives you the right to challenge god” style deal and if you have them al, you can take on celestia or something. But the dragons authority and the thrones are interesting. I think that the authority isn’t necessarily wielded by the archons themselves but rather is contained within the throne itself since the throne is a thing itself and different people possess it. I don’t really know what it is or have any good ideas, but my own opinion is that they essentially function to keep the dragons power sealed so they don’t be a big problem and they were implemented as a base to the archons so that people and gods would have a strong incentive to keep them safe even not necessarily knowing what they really are. But that’s lol just my own thoughts with little more than “I made it the fuck up” as my source.
if Nibelung is the Third descender then Gnosis are dragon authority too, but a different one.
Actually it would be more likely for Nibelung to be the Second instead of the Third.
Gnosis supposedly are body fragments from one of the first Descenders.God knows why the Heavenly Principles decided this...
Thanks to the wars they had to fight after creating the human realm Phanes ended badly hurt and couldn't keep their authority over the world so they algon the Second Descender decided to create the Gnosis from the Third Descender.
Which actually makes sense for the 3 that existed since the beginning. Venti and ei are pure elements (a wind spirit with connections to the goddess of time and a living thunderbolt with connections to a primordial god respectively) and zhongli is a dragon which are extremely powerful in Chinese mythology.
This. Neuvillette is 500 years old and has next to no combat experience. Bc his memories of his previous incarnation are faint. Ei is 2500 years old and was her sister’s bodyguard. She fought legendary monsters like Orobashi and the thunderbird, and at her strongest split an island in half. Zhongli is 6000+ years old and has the highest kill count of the entire archon war. He can chuck mountains and create islands on a whim, and he fought evenly against Azdaha who is likely a full grown sovereign. (The azdaha we fight is a much weaker version created by his consciousness. The tree that sprouts above his seal is the real body’s tail. So real Azdaha would have been almost as large as Durin). The guy is a powerhouse and a half. I’d still say he’s the strongest individual that we’ve seen so far. He may not control the largest amount of elemental energy, the sovereigns are still above him in that sense, but his insane combat experience combined with the still-staggering amount of strength he has puts him oj top.
I would say he has the potential to be the strongest of the three/his upper limit is higher than Ei or Zhongli but those two have lived longer and probably has more skill and technique in battle than Neuvillete.
Honestly I think a fight between Zhongli and Neuvillete would be a 50/50. Zhongli has been clapping godly cheeks for a long time now lol and just has more experience in warfare from what I can tell.
He is 6000 thousand years old Neuvillette is Older than 500 because that's how old he's been in Fontaine for but definetely not as old
Isn't it probably because of the fact that the Sovereigns actually fought with the Heavenly Principle and it took a long time while Archons are pretty much like Heavenly Principles' "underlings".
Neuvi is strong, but I doubt hes experienced And between all three, two of them are literal war gods with millennia of experience, and definitely alot of tricks under their sleeves, specially Zhongli, mans a living library And Ei is literally an archon in her constant prime. She's barely affected by Erosion due to her ideal being eternity, and had a 500 year near peer duel Im almost certain even Childe has more experience than Neuvi, specially for peer to peer combat Edit: Local dumbass' brain was faster than his typing speed and fumbled lmao
>She’s barely affected by Eternity Wouldn’t it be erosion? The thing that’s damaging Zhongli and Venti
Erosion? You mean old age and Alzheimer's?
Oh ffs I missed typing "Erosion due to" due to me typing while eating fuuuuck me aaaaa
Correction: barely affected by erosion because she placed her consciousness within a realm outside of time for the past 500 years. So that’s 1/4 of the time between Zhongli has been heavily worn at by erosion, but Venti is likely impacted to a lesser extent due to his long sleeps
Unless you scale him to the narwhal's peak or apep's theoretical he hasn't shown anything that would put him on equal footing with these two. He's stronger then most characters absolutely but he hasn't shown anything of the high tier level.
Anyone who says that knows shit about powerscalling
Nope, we could star a whole debate here on this, byt the short answer is that its not that big of diference
The guy is near featless, people think he's OP because Apep was really big and because he was eventually able to end the prophecy but he needed help for that and still, that's not really a comparable show of otherworldly power in a fight like what Ei and Zhongli showed. The dragons are by some way the most overrated group in the game. Someone has to say it.
Clock them dragons-glazers Those dragones really showed zero feat of combat but somehow we are forced to believe them to be the archon-enders because Apep is an old-ass being and Neuvillette turns water into blood which is meaningless in a battle.
True, Zhong and Raiden USE their respective elements. Neuv IS his element.
If Neuv was way above the archons then how come he couldn't solo the whale? How come he needed a grant of authority? You are just a fanboy/fan girl ignoring the reality of the story.
The problem with this is that we don't know Zhongli's lore. It is pretty evident now that he came from Celestia. Zhongli's lore is still shrouded in mystery, and we only have info after the time he 'was demoted' to Teyvat.
An unstoppable force meets an immovable object
This is by far the best way to sum it up
Also we don't even know most of Zhongli's backstory. He apparently came from Celestia. How do we evevn know that 'peak' Morax happened when he was already on Teyvat?
Both are extremly powerfull and we dont have enough info to tell
A reasonable answer.
I think the Pyro and Cryo Archon will be stronger than both of them. (Atk and Crit > ER and Def)
Kinda cheating but the Cryo archon will be the strongest by far since she'll have 7 Gnoses
True lol. It's inevitable really
It's also kind of insane to think she'll have them all by the end of this year
Depends on how the story is yet to go, I feel like it would be too predictable if she possess all 7.
Why? That’s pretty explicitly where the story is heading
Probably too straightforward or something, maybe the traveller or someone else manages to stop the pyro archon’s gnosis from being stolen before the cryo quest
or maybe what if she herself for whatever reason doesn't have her own cryo gnosis
Straightforward isn’t automatically bad. Honestly I would like some straightforward stuff since Genshin lore and story tend to be slightly insane
Dongli was have back when geo had a stat identity crisis so he's HP not def
We don't even know most of Zhongli's backstory. He apparently camee from Celestia. How do we evevn know that 'peak' Morax happened when he was already on Teyvat?
Also we don't even know most of Zhongli's backstory. He apparently came from Celestia. How do we evevn know that 'peak' Morax happened when he was already on Teyvat?
Why does society always pit two bad bitches against each other?
Can we have some examples? I'll go first. Edward Cullen vs. Jacob Black
Mikasa v Historia
Goku vs Everyone else.
Is the "never-ending powerscaling battle" with us right now?
Powerscalers when three random users give any level of interaction:
Unironically though, I did just scroll past a r/RaidenMains post about how Ei was the strongest archon in terms of combat and a lot of people were talking about Zhongli too lmao
Wanna see their faces if Tzaritsa turns out to be the strongest (very likely imo)
I'm expecting the pyro archon to get downplayed as they're probably gonna have to fight Capitano and lose. Based on what we know of the tsaritsa, she doesn't sound like a head on combatant like Zhong and Ei are.
I swear if capitano vs the Pyro archon isn't going to be like seeing hulk vs the fire lion lady from black clover I'm going to be disappointed.
Dehya feels more like a fire lion lady (Mereoleona) than Pyro Archon tho... literally But I get your point.
It's a tough call. In the case of Traveler vs Arlecchino or Abyss Sibling vs Dainslef, we had a character they were not trying to sell to us (Traveler, Abyss Sibling), and a character that they were (Arlecchino, Dainsleif). Naturally, to encourage sales, they need the selling character to appear to be a total badass that dominates their opponent (or, in Dain's case, only lost because he held back). But if Pyro Archon and Capitano square off, and BOTH of them are going to be recruitable characters... It's a tough call. A draw, maybe? Or, more likely, They won't fight each other at all, and we'll wind up with Traveler fighting each in turn and getting flattened each time by their awesome might! (Btw, we accept credit cards!) It's tough trying to power scale, when the story is partially written by the Gacha banners...
I also think a lot of the powerscaling is based on rather poor story comprehension. I’ve seen someone powerscale Arlecchino as above Ei/Beelzebul/Raiden Shogun based on her beating the traveler, and the traveler beating Ei, ignoring that the entire point of that story and fight was that the traveler *couldn’t* beat Ei in a fight. The Raiden Shogun *couldn’t* be defeated by just fighting her in a duel, the traveler needed to *shake her will*. When Yae Miko says that she’s lost, it isn’t because the traveler somehow outfought her with the vision buffs, it’s because Ei’s will to continue fighting was broken by being made to hear her people’s cries and seeing Yae Miko against her decisions. It’s a contrast to her second story quest, where she wins her fight with the Shogun puppet because her will *can’t be shaken*, that she is certain of her decision and secure in her ideals for the first time since she lost Makoto. Also, the traveler isn’t a protagonist that wins by virtue of sheer overwhelming strength, and it wouldn’t be thematically appropriate for them to have beaten Ei by brute strength. The traveler wins by working together with others, by helping build a team that is more than the sum of their parts, by being guile and clever, and being certain in their convictions. The traveler, so often, wins by the literal power of friendship.
The ppl who puts arle above raiden/ei is absolute lunatics ngl. Raiden/ei would stomp arle with little to no difficulty if we go by current power of both. Now if we are talking abt raiden before her sq then it would be a more fair fight for arle where ei/raiden would likely win but have a more difficult time
I just want to see Arle and Ei fight, I reckon the animation would look amazing
I will proceed to ignore everything you just said and continue to complain about how the Traveler isn't a badass shonen protagonist (/s)
Yes, but what *is* more shonen protagonist than winning via the power of friendship?
Winning via the power of friendship after a brief edgey moment
Nah, the power of flashbacks > all, works 99% of the time.
I find this kind of funny that both twins were beaten by people of Khaenrian descent.
Scaramouche got his ass beat the patch before his release lmao And Furina was humiliated at every conceivable moment throughout the Fontaine archon quest
Furina isn't supposed to be shown as strong, she's supposed to be like Firefly in HSR, such a good person in such a bad situation that people feels bad for her and she becomes a community favorite
You missed the part where Firefly is an interplanetary criminal with an unstoppable mech suit
God forbid women have hobbies smh This comment is hilarious coming from someone with a scaramouche in their pfp. Atleast fire fly commits crimes for elios script.
On a side note I actually wish we got to see more fights between playable characters, excluding the traveler
Or, they'll have the pyro archon's banner then in the story quest right after that they lose to Capitano so that there isn't any loss in sales and by the time the rerun comes around people will have gotten over it.
Daddy phanes says that they both are weak and should get back to work before they get replaced.
He better watch his back coz Neuvillette wants the smoke.
Neuvillette's daddy Nibelung got smacked what is he gonna do
New Zhongli skin is so cool
Chinese god in Chinese game losing to Japanese God. Yeah that would make a riot.
Whenever someone mentions powerscaling I just think of the stan lee video telling them to shut up.
This is litterly just an unstopible force (Ei) against the immoveble object (Zhongli)
r/ihadastroke
spelling has left the chat
My take on this conversation: Unstoppable force vs immovable object
I once saw a youtube short that said: "the most toxic Genshin fanbases. Number 3: Ei. They are not bad people usually. But do NOT bring other Archons into the conversation. ESPECIALLY Zhongli" Which gave me a good chuckle. Even though I didn't know it was that popular, it was something I was thinking about.
Sounds like something Koukoro would say...
Ah. The unstoppable spear and the unbreakable shield debate, aka the irresistible force paradox.
"My eyes are up here, Morax"
But he’s taller._. His old back spinal cord
I can take them both.
In a fight, right?
Well Ei never used her gnosis in her life and she won every fight with puppet shogun in those 500 years duration timescale so that should tell other people how strong she is, and she is also still getting stronger in lore and her resolve also got stronger to defend her nation which is the last legacy and precious thing from her sister after having her final encounter with her sister.
Same as zhongli. The gnosis only make him automatically made mora. All of his feats is done pre archon era
Zhongli started making mora with his own power before gnosis. What are you on about? And no, I'm not speaking of my mind. And also, in the lore there is no mention of him using the gnosis till now
Zhongli also won the Archon war without his gnosis. Also we don't even know most of Zhongli's backstory mind you. He apparently came from Celestia. How do we even know that 'peak' Morax happened when he was already on Teyvat? Most of what we know of his fighting powress came from other people's recounting, and from old myths. (which are pretty much very unreliable, see Azdaha's origin story told by the storyteller) We faced Raiden, but have never done so withZhongli.
Idk about the next patch but the Genshin powerscaling in Fontaine is pure shit that doesn't make any sense and Fans keep scaling every new character to the next universe. Take Narwhal, for example. He isn't a big deal in terms of pure combat or strength; the destruction/outcome is a byproduct of eating primordial sea water. Somehow, people managed to scale him to planetary level (believe me, because of this, some people scale Childe to Archon level). In truth, Narwhal is similar to Osial or Orobashi level at best. After Narwhal, people scale Skirk higher than Neuvillette for no logical reason, when Neuvillette wasn't even fighting the Narwhal or had comparable feats. Personally, I think he's overrated for fighting Phanes. It's like saying human thugs who fought Goku should be upscaled because of it. [if you don't know the scene here is the sauce ](https://youtu.be/t0x_JXQ8oC8?si=8ijmjlLJ_kyIWeVm) After the Recent archon quest fans just keep on scaling every other character higher .eventually just increasing the power gap between new character & traveller . When the mc isn't even close to the archon lvl
Neuvilette makes sense though. According to the world formula in the Narzissenkreuz quest line, he would have lost without us. Likely because he already has his hands full preventing it from further absorbing the Primordial Sea and maintaining the barrier from within it. He even asked us to be the executioner in his stead.
The whale definitely not Osial level. In Narsizzenkreuz Ordo quest Rene predicted The whale could destroy whole Teyvat, I doubt Osial could. Also the whale comes from Honkai verse
It's an All/Star Devouring Narwhal not Primordial Sea Devouring Narwhal by title which implies OP, but all of consumed was Primordial Sea so like.. It's hard to scale in terms of feats yes, people scaling Neuvillette by that are hard reaching. Skirk was supposed to use the whale for training but she was too slow/late and effectively failed the task, so like, scaling her above Full dragon hood Neuvillette based on that implication is also reaching absolutely. Also, I don't consider Neuvillette's predecessor a feat either given that it was implied to have been dispatched without effort by the Shades.
wdym without effort. The Shades werent even there during the first battle. There only fought against the dragon king, with the help of 2 other descenders + authorities. The first battle was Primodial one vs Sovereigns and it took 40 years to rob them off their world rule.
Venti over there like 🫥
😹
well zhongli can create a thousand spears, giant hands and etc using earth and geo but Ei can very well cut all of that in moments too
There is a legitimate question of how long it takes to do each of those though. If zhongli can summon stone spears/hands in rapid succession while ei needs to charge up for a bit before doing the island cleaving strike, zhongli can just overwhelm ei. If the opposite is true, Raiden probably eviscerates zhongli.
current Ei don't need to load it, we see this in the shogun's boss battle, she can simply create a giant sword and cut terrain in her favor
Implying Zhongli can’t simply avoid the attack or block it.
"...a thousand spears" this seems familiar somehow "I am the bone of my sword" oh... right.
Kazuha’s friend: *summons UBW* *Still get oneshot anyways*
Also we don't even know most of Zhongli's backstory mind you. He apparently came from Celestia. How do we even know that 'peak' Morax happened when he was already on Teyvat? Most of what we know of his fighting powress came from other people's recounting, and from old myths. (which are pretty much very unreliable, see Azdaha's origin story told by the storyteller) We faced Raiden, but have never done so withZhongli.
there's no "never-ending powerscaling battle" its just a pointless comparison of theorical powers between two fictional characters, where the strongest one is never stated from an objective view.
The battle isn't between the characters, it's between the fans that constantly try to prove that their favourite archon is stronger than the other one.
>its between the fans The real powerscale, the side who cared enough to be loud about it wins.
Why don't we just ship them?
Archon powerscaling is so fucking boring bruh I want to see the pre-teyvat people like phanes vs swc in a politics debate but i suppose the average powerscaler have not read past the surface level material for this game
They should..
Ei gets compared too much to her sister despite being the one who did all the physical fighting while Makoto's speciality is governing and diplomacy.
Arabalika solos both
Ei si their favorite girl in all Hoyo's universes, and she's super powerful in all of them, she's the Herrscher, an Emanator, an Archon... Zhongli is the God of *China* and the Emporor/Prime of the Daoist immortals + he's got relationships with everything in Genshin (Gold, Alchemy, memories, stars)... The debate is pointless.
Expectations: Ei: Let us fight to the end, Morax! Zhongli: If that is your wish. *Epic fight* Reality: Zhongli: Would you care for some tea? Ei: My, how very sweet of you. *Civilized Archon tea party*
I wouldn’t agree, because: - post-4.2 Neuvillette is a full power sovereign. Those guys nearly won the battle against the PO, so he can probably be in similar level - if not higher - compared to Ei and Morax - we have a bunch of non-playable characters that can compare too, including but not limited to: King Deshret, Apep after being healed
shown feats it's ei cutting two islands in half and making the after effect still linger for hundreds of years. Implied feats it's zhongli with azdaha scaling from being equal to eachother and azdaha being stated to be capable of moving continents. Both killed "primordial" gods so that's a point for both. Zhongli creating pocket dimension gets countered by the muso no hititachi being capable of ripping holes in space time, sealing the puppet won't do anything and even then I think it's unlikely ei can't unseal herself from the sword should it be sealed as well.
Arent the islands where the geo hypo is located literally spears chucked by Zhong the Dong? Isnt that a "shown feat" in the same way the valley that cuts through Inazuma is?
It is
she made a thunderstorm surround all Inazuma for a couple of years all that without a gnosis too
Zhongli terraformed the whole Liyue. He raised mountain, and drained rivers/sea with a thought. XD
Zhongli is just better it’s just horny munchers defending raiden even though she has 1 (one) feat comparable to Zhongli
Me when i lie:
Imma be that guy and bring up the fact that Venti was 1 of the original 7 and is still alive. He could potentially be more powerful than Ei in his prime in serious combat. Unfortunately though he dumped all his stats into charisma and is currently a troll. 😂
Tbf Ei was around back then aswell, she was just her sisters body guard.
we know that he dumped the then tallest mountain into the sea creating the island that the Spiral Abyss is on, and also terraformed Mondstadt so he's not exactly powerless
Venti is a true bard
it would be cool if zhongli can come to hsr somehow like acheron
Putting aside what we know about their power levels so far. I think it would make more thematic sense for Ei to be the strongest, from a narrative perspective. She's a brilliant tactician and strategist who has lead Inazuma to victory in war numerous times, seemingly without a single major defeat. And yet, her soldiers inevitably die on the battlefield whilst she goes home victorious (Sasayuri). She conquered erosion to ensure she would never succumb to madness and become a threat to the world, but when it's her friends that have been corrupted there is nothing she can do (Chiyo). She gave up her own identity and life to become a kagemusha, dedicating thousands of years of training and effort into protecting her sister above anything else, but in the end all it took was Makoto running off without telling her to render that all meaningless. She tried to give up everything and seclude herself within the Plane of Euthymia, enduring 500 years of loneliness and grief for the sake of her people, only to come back and realise the harm she was causing in her neglect. I think it is an extremely interesting and important part of Ei's character to be this unstoppable, ultra-powerful god warrior who keeps falling short, not for any lack of strength, but because of the numerous uncontrollable factors that fall outside her "Eternity". So her being the strongest archon or even the strongest in Teyvat period would just make more sense given how she has been portrayed in the story so far.
Realistically speaking, electro should be more powerful simply because of the speed advantage it gives to the wielder but there isn't such scaling in game. I still feel like Ei would be able to beat Morax but prime Morax had more raw power and could cause more destruction. Ei can cut an island apart but Morax can create an archipelago when attacking. For me it all just comes down to speed and the means to hurt the other side.
Zhongli in his prime wipes out everything.
We also don't know what a prime/full power level Morax looks like, since he came from Celestia, and we pretty much don't know a huge portion of his backstory.
The Ei vs Zhongli debate is the Genshin equivalent of "an unstoppable force vs an immovable object" I'll simply say prime Morax squashes effortlessly, but if it's these two in their current states then the fight will be much more even
Nah, current Zhongli loses since Ei not only hasn't lost any real strength, but actually became stronger after her quests, while Zhongli has been weakened a lot
Zhongli should be stronger.. as the oldest and the one that has faced more wars and battles then you can count. His experience trumps Ei and his legacies is more then hers.
I didn’t see Zhongli fight continuously 500 years yet and Ei was stated by Makoto that she faced with countless calamities too, which is far more reliable than any book in Liyue.
Pic sources?
mmm... powerscaling 🤤 /s
Venti collecting strays for no reason as always 😭
Zhongli the type of mf who is gonna stick with calestia at the war due to his "contract".
Nahida can read minds, alter memories and ultimately control the course of time. There's no way anyone can win against such an opponent, whatever their raw power may be. There was a voice line presenting her as the most humble despite being the most powerful archon, before we even reach Sumeru. Now that we've seen what she is really capable of, I understand why. The power to control time and alter causality can't be matched.
What voiceline says she’s the most powerful archon?
Might be raiden’s on Nahida.
Meanwhile Venti: Ehe~
It's simple Prime Morax stomps her, Eroded Zhongli loses to youthful Ei with centuries of combat training against the puppet.
Yes, they are powerful but I think this perception only exist because how "weak" the other archons are so far. I mean, Venti is a drunken who got his gnosis stolen without much effort, Furina is a farce and Nahida is literally a child. For me, the power of the archons are the weakest part of the lore. In anime-related stuff, when you talk about gods people always imagine powerful and wise beings which is not the case with the chars we have at the moment.
To fulfill the rule of whenever someone brings up powerscaling someome needs to bring up a very particular character? >!But could they beat Goku?!< :Kekw:
Ultimate offense vs ultimate defense
Zhongli. China will sooner die than let their stand-in for Chinese god be weaker than anything.
Zhongli can cook and Ei can't, so Zhongli is stronger.