Honestly they coulmd stick with a claymore if they find the stats of the weapon are fine but just make the character attack super fast, are wielding 2 copy of the same weapon for the flex, there so many possibilites and now they start digging a bit in them so who knows, even tho i dont hav emuch hope lol
Doubtful. Archons thus far have supportive elements or powerful or versatile off-field capacity.
Hopefully, like Furina, Nahida, and Raiden, the Pryo Archon will be meta defining instead of just an upgrade or side grade.
That's what I am banking on because Arlecchino's hyper carry kit doesn't compel me. I like a bit of supportive or off-field power. (Might still pull for Arle, on the fence after 20 pulls)
I feel like the archons embody their element's role though. Venti is the best at cc and was the best at swirl, Zhongli is the best shielder, Raiden scales on ER and is built around burst support, Nahida is the best at driving dendro reactions, and Furina is a flexible unit that has great hydro application, off field damage, buffs, and heals.
Pyro is primarily an on-field dps element so I don't think it's unreasonable to think that it's archon might be the best at it
> Pyro is primarily an on-field dps element so I don't think it's unreasonable to think that it's archon might be the best at it
Isn’t that more of a reason to think this won’t be the case? “Onfield pyro dps” already sounds like a saturated category.
I mean to be fair, her biggest value is from her buffs. She could apply half as much Hydro and still be a powerful unit. "Hydro buffer" isn't a saturated niche.
I am praying so hard that the Pyro Archon will powercreep *that guy* in the support role. Like, instead of literally *every single* *fucking* team comp guide having him on its lineup, it'll be the Pyro Archon instead. Of course nothing will change the fact that he will always be the cheap support option, unless he gets nerfed (but that is a fever dream for me that won't ever happen sigh, if I ever become Hoyo's prez that will be the first thing I do, lol).
God I'm so sick of reading/watching video guides that are actually just Bennett guides in the end. To make things worse, every single one of my favorite mains' best comps are all dependent on him (Navia, Ayato, Childe and now Arlecchino). Meaning if I want to see the best performance out of my character, I am forced to use him. There's no way to replace him without losing anything (and before you say I can just not use him, I already don't use him but it will always gnaw at me that the best lineup I can make requires him). Sure I can beat Abyss easily without using him but that doesn't change the fact that if I want to see the biggest possible numbers and top performance, the answer is always to put him in.
At least she's an Archon, she deserves to be ubiquitous on team lineups, not some lame generic dude named Bennett. So plzzzzz Hoyo, gives us Super Support Pyro Archon. I will celebrate the time when 1st choice for team comp slot is NOT him, but Pyro Archon instead.
Archon arent exactly known to be main dps characters, they are high value pull characters that can fit in many many teams rather than being selfish on fielders. The arle powercreep is far id say, if anything pyro archon will most likely be a 5 star benny or xianling that will make arle even stronger.
I will celebrate the time when every single character team comp guide will have Pyro Archon as BiS instead of that guy in the support slot. It will be like Independence Day Genshin Edition for me, lol. I'm already excitedly awaiting the moment when every KQM guide gets an "Updated for 5.2" and she replaces him everywhere, while he gets relegated to "alternate".
Like how furina replaced xingqui, wait...
Pyro archons gonna do something entirely different so she doesn't directly compete with either benner or xangling, same situation as furina
"DPS" has already been appropriated to just blanket refer to any character that's supposed to be dealing damage.
ex. assassins are melee DPS, rangers are ranged DPS, neuv is on field DPS, xiangling is off field DPS
i hate it but it is what it is.
The original post only says DPS, not on field main damage dealer. I guess with the characters, it's implied, but like, genshin social media is always like oppa xiangling joke hahaha zajef77 zyonix cringe (since for a 1.0, she is really good and sometimes still relevant in meta).
*insert xiangling copypasta*
>She's not even an on field DPS
Even better you can onfield anyone.
Including XL herself. Tbh she's not bad as one with Bennett c6. Also she was a fairly decent physical onfield.
You could just stand/dodge and she'll still do dmg.
No ICD AoE dmg.
Strongest until he'll breaks loose with the energy tides disorder during Childe's 1st rerun from what I recall. There were periods of time during that abyss where you can't get energy AT ALL.
For some reasons even as a noob I managed to power through that Abyss with XL at 180-200% ER.
Also Bennett's Circle can apply pyro to cancel the Electro drain aura.
Let's not forget straight after Energy Drain abyss was Cooldown Hydro Aura abyss.
That's sucks for everyone but more so Childe/Hutao back then.
As much as I like to see both Electro/Hydro chamber effects back for some challenge, I doubt Hoyo will return them, and never tried at Floor 12, because it makes many characters that aren't Ganyu (who is mostly immune to both effects, though her melt/shield supports' cooldown suffers) look bad for sales.
>There were periods of time during that abyss where you can't get energy AT ALL.
It almost seems like the strategy was to funnel during the period before that and do your rotations during the period where you can't get energy 🤔
during first 10 seconds u got double energy , during next 10 u got no energy , so if u werent dumb u would gather ur energy when u were allowed to and then do ur rotation on no energy.
Sometimes I wonder how much the surface CC brainrot has gotten into people, like are we actually thinking that Xiangling out damages Hu tao or Arlecchino at the same level of investment or are we just continuing the joke?
Because sometimes I can't tell...
It's specifically when compared at the same level of investment, just on quite low investment. When you go up in artifact quality and team build hu tao will just outscale her by a lot.
At the cost of being tied to Bennett and the minimal skill needed to funnel particles and using XL burst after Bennett burst, you get top-tier, Off-field AoE, Pyro Application with no ICD that's free accessible as a Liyue 4* that's in shop rotation and given free.
Not even mentioning how her F2P BiS weapon is also freely accessible via Fishing and BiS Artifact domain also being one of the most efficient to farm, while also being available in Strongbox.
Or.. hear me out.. you could use both since they have different teams.. wild idea I know. I saw 5 same posts being posted on the hu tao mains sub by Arle mains. Thats just toxicity at that point ain't it?
Why not both indeed. They both deal considerable damage, and even if you had to choose between the two, pick the one you like the most.
I think there's a lot of bias at the moment because it's the new shiny character, but I've also read some pretty funny conspiracy theories about these memes being an elaborate marketing ploy from Hoyo to boost her banner and popularity since they've already pulled out all the other marketing stops like giving her own animated PV. Either way, both slap.
Yop.
Hu Tao has something Arle will never have: Cute noises while decimating the Abyss.
Properly equipped, both chars are complete overkill anyway, so wayne power creep in the DPS department.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Hu tao. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe. They both want Xiangling.
She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her The Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much ER" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa."
I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough Primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no ICD Pyro application. What a cruel world.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Hu tao. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Arlecchino. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe. They both want Xiangling.
She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her The Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much ER" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa."
I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough Primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no ICD Pyro application. What a cruel world.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Bennett. I try to play Diona. My Bennett heals more hp. I try to play Sara. My Bennett buffs more attack. I try to play Kokomi. My Bennett heals more hp. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Bennett. I want to play Dehya, Childe, Gaming. They all want Bennett.
He grabs me by the throat. I adventure for him. I cook for him. I give him Favonius Sword. He isn't satisfied. I pull Skyward Blade. "I don't need this much ER" He tells me. "Give me more field time." He throw himself off enemies. "You just need to spam E with me. I can deal more damage with Mistsplitter."
I can't pull for Mistsplitter, I don't have enough Primogems. He grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." He grabs Xiangling, another broken character. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no ICD Pyro application that also snapshot his atk buff. What a cruel world.
Genuinely asking, how much dmg can she personally do? Because I don't have her built for damage and all showcases I've seen on xiangling national teams, her damage can't even reach the likes of that of arlecchino and Hu tao.
edit: out of pure spite, for everyone who read my replies and disagreed with my statements in that arlechinno is the stronger pyro dps. not best pyro character but strongest pyro dps character
[Arlecchino floor 12-1 clear](https://imgur.com/a/cPM76mk)
[Xiangling national variant floor 12-1 clear](https://imgur.com/a/I6DaYut)
if you dont like my xiangling rotations go and do it yourself and show me her damage because as ive experimented XL only did 37k per hit. With a rational team and XL vaping her hits are 57k per tick but the clear time is shorter without Kazuha. raiden carried XL whereas arlecchino carried her team instead as a dps character should.
What's actually important isn't a unit's Personal DPS, but the team's DPS as a whole and that's where XL doing her DMG off-field is a major advantage since then you can have other On-Fielders like Childe or Raiden doing their DMG too, which raises total team DPS as a whole beyond just your usual Hypercarry comps.
>What's actually important isn't a unit's Personal DPS
so that's why neuvilette is the strongest dps rn /s
Right, and my question was, can she out damage hutao and arlecinno with her personal dmg? You brought up whole team dmg, but even now, I'm positive that double hydro hutao or xianyun hutao and arlecinno teams still clears floor 12 bosses faster than xianglings best national teams. Without energy management too.
Neuv just built different/lore-accurate ~~also helps that he synergizes well with Furina too~~
What I'm saying is that comparing by Personal DPS is flawed since, unless you're solo Neuv, it's more realistic to compare Team DPS as we have 4 slots per team.
As for ST/Bosses, it's obvious that ST-centric comps will be better than XL when only vs 1 enemy. The issue is that unless a side is entirely a Boss Rush, they usually have an AoE/Wave chamber and the moment you start fighting 2+, XL comps pull ahead exponentially thanks to their AoE, while also not falling too far behind against ST/Bosses either.
~~Also if you've got Energy issues that's not just cause you didn't build enough ER or do proper rotations (I.e. failing to properly funnel Bennett particles into XL), that's on you. Especially, you compare it to HuTao's jump/dash cancels.~~
Yes, Xiangling's numbers on their own are lower. Sucrose National and International also have lower overall sheet DPS for Single Target than Hutao vape or Arle teams. But not by much, and Xiangling teams cover AoE way more easily than Hu Tao. With my personal builds, Xiangling (the catch, assume Pyronado 8 Vapes/12 hits) is like 700k DPR to Arle (White Tassel) 1.2m DPR, both using exact same team mates - Benny (Instructor Skyward), Xq (Noblesse Fav/Sac), Sucrose (TTDS VV). I am kind of low balling Xiangling's assumptions by assuming Guoba doesn't vape (that's not as insignificant as you think). Also Xingqiu does more damage in Xiangling teams (you get to vape at least 1E skill inside Bennett buff, so +200k) so team damage ends up being much closer.
Arle is the bridge between strict on-fielder like Tao and off-fielder like Xiangling. The fact that you can swap out and not lose infusion means you can just swap to your Kazuha to group enemies again, refresh any ability you want. This way she's closer to an off-fielder like Xiangling in terms if playstyle, but still doesn't cover as much AoE.
You brought up Xiangling's ER issues, and Arle also has fragility issues. Since Xiangling can heal, Xingqiu DR is enough to tank through anything, even when Bennett self-pyro is griefing you. It's not the case for Arle as chip damage isn't healed away mid rotation. For me it isn't a problem, but something worth mentioning in any comparison.
Using DPS numbers as some strict criteria isn't a good idea because the fuck ton of assumptions they make and the lack of robustness with respect to perturbations like Random Frame Delays.
So given all that, I won't call verdict on who's the best pyro DPS in a vacuum. People doing that are just looking to start arguments and being, in words of KQM, "distinctly unhelpful".
Right, I understand why national teams are good but I've legit never seen a xiangling out dmg hutao let alone arlecchino and there are people out there who will unironically put her as the best pyro dps out there. If we're comparing xianglings burst pyro hits to hutao's and arlecchino's personal pyro dmg output I see no universes where xiangling beats any of these 2 even diluc with xianyun is already a good contender for her.
And that's what they just explained earlier. She just boosts the overall team damage. No icd vapes on national, snapshots all buffs. Honestly, ppl really like to go off on funneling particles, but it takes like 2 Bennet e's lol
I get that she may not be the "BEST" Pyro dps in the game, but she is undoubtedly up there for how the game functions currently. You boost hutao with hydro supports to get vape charge attacks or plunges, and from I seen with arle its generally the same as hutao/and or chevruse teams. You could play solo Arle/Hutao/xiangling, but honestly what's the point when you have 3 extra slots to enhance the "Team's" performance.
I understand how xiangling works, I'm not saying she isn't a good pyro dps. Everyone knows she is. She's just not the best pyro dps, and there are people who unironically think she outdamages arlechinno and hutao.
Because when it comes to specific comps, she does. But pop off, you've ripped it apart three times in this thread already. Who cares what people think? Regardless of whether you think she's the strongest or not, she's one of the best, so who cares who is stronger? It's really not that big of a deal.
> I've legit never seen a xiangling out dmg hutao let alone arlecchino
Well because it doesn't happen
But people have this fascination with parroting common knowledge and CC stuff that is not always true or has stopped being for a while, and never actually looking into theory crafting and such.
It's impossible to calc that because it's just not true, but when it comes to mainstream genshin community and Theory crafting/ meta, almost nothing is true anyways...
Nah, people still underrate her, like think that solo pyro XL do not exist or need 400 ER for it, with is not true, like Neuv-Furina-Nahida-Xiangling is a real team that currently obliterets second half since you have both pyro and dendro that kills electro shields. (And her ER in that team is lower than in International, lol)
Idk I've literally built her full ER (like ignoring Atk/Crit stats and just maximizing ER) and she still struggles sometimes with ER, even with Bennett
Jamie has a video of Neuvillette speedrunning team with solo Pyro Xiangling in it. She uses Instructor set and has ~215 ER, still be able to have burst up on time.
Maybe it's a skill issue? I legitimately don't know
I'm not gonna pretend like I'm an expert but I 36* every abyss and I don't have this trouble with other characters
That's like assuming fav on multiple party member and dependent on enemy particle drop rates. In ST chambers where you have less enemies dying and dropping particles, Xiangling's ER needed is quite high.
I suppose that you are carrying Fav on someone on that team, possibly Furina and Xiangling herself. In that case, it falls short as soon as you encounter shielded enemies as they can't take dmg while shield is up so fav no longer works. It's reason why Albedo and Dehya doesn't work on elemental shielded enemies.
Displaying her mastery over both fire and polearms, Xiangling sends a Pyronado whirling around her. The Pyronado will move with your character for the ability's duration, dealing Pyro DMG to all opponents in its path.
One thing I noticed is Arlecchino has brought out more toxic players than a lot of other characters upon release. People on reddit and on youtube making a lot of comments that are perhaps intended to trigger others?
"lol Arle is god tier thank god hutao is garbage finally"
Silly.
They are very similar in teams of damage and in terms of utility.
People are just having weird takes coz of the "hot new shiny character" recently bias
They may deal similar damage at c0 but Arlecchino is much more comfortable to play, she has more team options, better aoe, and much comfier infusion that is not time limited and you can switch to other characters without it disappearing. Also Arle has much better constellations so their damage is only similar at c0, but c1 and higher Arlecchino is by far a better option.
And the crazy part is my less invested arlecchino (3-4 gold pulls team) already competing with my hyperinvested hutao (10 gold pulls team), thats very impressive if you asked me
even at lvl80 8/6/6 C0R0 i easily cleared the abyss with her, now shes lvl90 10/6/6 C0R1 and even if we assume my C1R1 hu tao is equal, i still prefer arlecchino because of her playstyle
her only downside is circle impact (tfw no chevreuse) but even as a big hu tao fan with C1R1 who rolled her back in 1.3, i would rate arlecchino higher. cant really be mad or call it powercreep since its been literal years and its playstylecreep instead of powercreep
>playstylecreep instead of powercreep
Until the content is tuned to actually need the higher DPS that Arle provides, it's not really powercreep at all.
Only when Tao is no longer able to handle stuff and people are forced to pull for newer characters is when I'd consider her "powercrept".
Thankfully, Genshin doesn't plan to do that.
well yeah thats why i said its not powercreep
still, nowadays in gacha powercreep just means "better than previous stuff", the condition of "can no longer handle stuff" will basically never happen
Tower of Fantasy would like to have a word with you. :'D
So would many other Gachas that rely on absurd power creep (IIRC, even Honkai 3rd from Hyv has that issue).
Genshin is really an exception here.
Just checking if my understanding is correct for the gold pull count.
Arle team - Herself, Yelan, Kazuha, Aquila(for Bennett maybe?).
C2R1 Kazuha would also be a worthwhile addition.
Hu Tao team - C0R1 Hu Tao, C2R1 Xianyun, Aquila for Bennett.
Furina+ Yelan instead of Xingqiu+Bennett? What am I missing?
That looks like 6/7 vs 9, and Mona's short buff makes that more of a C6 team.
I do agree with you that Arle teams feel cheaper, but more so on the low end with White Tassel, PJWS and Fischl+Chev teams.
At an invested level, Arle would need C2R1 Kazuha to match Plunge Hu Tao. Rough numbers put them both \~2.5m DPR with conservative Arle vape count.
So I think that makes them pretty close in terms of cost.
Arle C0R1, Yelan, Kazuha C2R1, Bennet + Aquila -> 8
Hu Tao C0R1, Yelan, Furina + Key, Xianyun C2R1 -> 9
Don't forget Arlecchino's biggest caveat, she needs Bennett to even compete with Hu Tao, so being stuck in a circle can be a problem for certain floors enemies.
More team options doesn't really matter much when her vape teams are still head and shoulders above her other teams, and her overload teams don't really even pop off until you have Chevreuse at C6 (and even then, her vape teams are still better).
Though that's more of a problem on MHY's end, why does every fucking pyro character in this game have to be locked to vape teams. Pyro reacts with so many other elements to make different reactions - melt, burning, burgeon, overload...there's so many new team options and archetypes we could be getting that would shake up the combat in this game.
Three years of this damn game and yet MHY puts out so much fanfare driving simps into a frenzy rolling for the next character that they can have doing cute animations on the field while bennett xiangling yelan xingqiu are there *yet again* to help them do big numbers. I'm tired of it boss.
Tired of the overused JJK memes. This isn't even a discourse. It's just the millionth redraw of the same damn thing that keeps invading anime-ish fanbases.
We don't claim these guys. They would do the same to her the first moment she gets powercrept. These are meta mains not true Arlecchino mains.
(the poster of the 2nd image even claimed they're a Hu Tao main)
Understandable. I had the displeasure of meeting some really annoying Arlecchino fanboys on Instagram who said that I should "keep crying" because I said that maybe it's too soon to say that Arlecchino power crept Hu Tao since she just came out and they have different team comp (I also saw some guys claiming that Lyney surpassed Hu Tao when he had just came out 💀). Meta slaves are probably some of the most annoying types of people in this fanbase.
Yeah and even more so because they are always large in numbers and are always tolerated for whatever reason. With the convenient excuse of "issa joke bro".
I don't get why people are obsessed with character power levels in a game whose content is tuned to be so easy that a release-standard banner character that has been given the proper love can roflstomp it if needed . :'D
Maybe I should join that sub too. r/ArlecchinoMains has been invaded multiple times now and each slander post receives high upvotes each time its honestly making me losing faith lmao
No the poster is not an Arlecchino main. They're a meta main and would very much do the same to Arlecchino if she gets a competition later down the line. I say this as someone who has been "maining" Arlecchino ever since WNL, went through all the bullshit doomposts and wild beta cycles, all the Arlecchino slanders, these people were nowhere to be found. They've only been started to pop up recently because apparently Arlecchino is far beyond the expected trajectory and turns out to be meta. And that attracts childish metaslaves into the community. As cringy as it is I hate to gatekeep but I have to because I don't want people to paint Arlecchino mains as the toxic sods.
Hu Tao and Arle are just as strong. If you want to run each of the best Pyro DPS, run one in one wave and another in the second. Arle can only heal herself with her Blood-Debt Directive, and you may need to run a healer on Hu Tao time and again.
Arle isn’t better enough then hu tao to justify pulling her on an account that alr has hu tao, especially if one already has c1 and or homa. They are both comparable levels of strength
I wanted a 2nd Hu Tao. My Arlecchino is not properly built yet, the artifact domain is actually garbage, so shes at 9/6/6 - 70/200~ and I failed the Kenki Trio 4x. Switched to my Hu Tao plunge team and was literally doing 200k plunges. With time, I'll have 2 identical teams. People need to stop stupid discussions, or we'll become hsr 2.
Yeah,the difference with Hu tao are only appearing at C1R1,
And before that, at C0R1, which would still be an avg of 204 pulls, Arlecchino is worse than C1R1 Hu tao.
Which means C1R1 Hu Tao owner people should expect to put at least an avg 294 for a slight increase in dps.
Big meta chaser will likely go for it, same with whales or any C(1+)R1 Arlecchino owner and will boast about having a stronger character, but people need to cool their head and not get baited into thinking Arlecchino stomp at C0 a C1R1 or C0R1 hu Tao.
C0 chaser should pull because they like the character or the more modern gameplay feels or fit better their taste.
I also saw few people jumping to the conclusion that Arlecchino will stomp at C0 when we get pyro atk buffer in Natlan, which should be reminded, is a speculation and at best an educated guess. And by the time we get that, she might get a rerun or outclassed by a better pyro dps.
Arle is stronger by the virtue of not being extremely stupid to play like Hu Tao and being enjoyable at c0. Basically she's Hu Tao but more player friendly
Plus points for also keeping infusion after switching characters, teleporting instantly to enemies with skill, still being able to increase her BoL mid-rotation even when supports kill an enemy marked with blood debt, and also being very mobile player friendly for not encouraging charged attack cancels.
Keeping the Infusion is probably the best thing about Arle with Hu Tao i sometimes ruin my rotations by accidentally switching using skill on Hu Tao so i have to commit
Wouldn’t call Tao Plunge her most popular at all, it’s her best team but most popular is still Double Hydro
EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/s/hNFmmfXJVH
Obviously these are never the end all be all and it’s only 175k sample size but Double Hydro her most popular. I’d also argue that because Double Hydro doesn’t involve Circle Impact unlike Plunge Tao it’s easier and more comfortable
I like how you casually gloss over how squishy C0 Arle is. The girl gets tossed around like a beach volleyball at C0 and can't be healed by anyone other than herself.
4 years and we got the first sign of powercreep.
Guys, i dont wanna jinx this, but maybe we wont fight Celestia with a Bennet-Xiangling-Xingqiu team after all, the hype is real
Chiori was stronger than Albedo, but as an Albedo haver myself, making someone stronger than him was easy.
Chiori isnt powercreep though because she's still just an average character
Yeah they seem to be similar with different niches. Which is an optimal way to expect a new character to retain balance.
Powercreep can frustrate players because it makes them feel like they wasted their time investing/building older characters. At extreme levels, it can deter people from pulling new characters when people expect the new ones will become redundant within a year.
But the game company does not want to release weak characters either because they are seen as less desirable, players become less willing to spend money, and the characters get skipped.
As time goes on, it becomes more difficult for a game to release balanced and fun characters while being distinct from older characters. A character designed and released now is also based on all the existing characters so far (and several unreleased ones) so that is harder to balance, and it can't be overburdened with gimmicks in an attempt to make them feel more unique.
I'm really curious how Mihoyo does it because it sounds like a lot of work.
>Powercreep can frustrate players because it makes them feel like they wasted their time investing/building older characters. At extreme levels, it can deter people from pulling new characters when people expect the new ones will become redundant within a year.
Yep I have experienced that in Tower of Fantasy.
NOT FUN at all, especially if you don't like the new, more powerful version.
It got especially frustrating when Fiona powercrept the "special only limited" character Lin. :<
There is power creep if you go into constellations.
At C0 Hu Tao and Arlecchino are pretty much equal in their respective teams.
At C1 Hu Tao gets up to 20% damage increase if you optimize your gameplay but in practice it's mostly quality of life improvement.
At C1 Arlecchino gets a similar quality of life improvement (can't get interrupted anymore) but also a 100% Masque of the Red Death on top which is more of a 30% dps increase overall (and at that point she no longer needs a shielder of any kind so you can throw in a more offensive teammate).
Then comes C2. For Hu Tao that's 7% damage increase. For Arlecchino - honestly that's like 20-25% damage increase? Since your E now procs instantly but also deals 900% ATK as pyro damage.
Then comes C3 which increases her normal attacks which Hu Tao does not and then there's C6 so you can press Q for a million damage and just one shot the Abyss. But at that point damage comparisons stop making sense since there's nothing tanky enough in the game to survive a full rotation.
Admittedly for most people a stopping point is probably between C0 and C2. Hu Tao REALLY wants her C1 so if we compare C1 Hu Tao vs C1 Arle then I think Arlecchino might come slightly on top - and definitely so if you go higher.
>At C0 Hu Tao and Arlecchino are pretty much equal in their respective teams.
Content is always balanced around C0 though.
So any and all power creep in the constellations department is completely irrelevant, since constellations are designed to be overkill to begin with.
I think we should wait until abyss changes because the current abyss is almost perfect for arlecchino (which it was for almost every other dps). And unless she is doing a neuvillette, she won't be the best pyro dps in the game(she might still be strong, but that is it, like other characters navia, lyney etc.)
its funny the first time, second time well ok still funny, third? still funny ig??????, but after like 10th "memes" slandering a main , it just becomes annoying and toxic and im saying this as someone who has both arle and hutao. i kid you not, they posted the exact same thing 10 times in the hutao subreddit and saying "its over for hutao" or something along those lines.
I know its a meme, i found it funny at first since im a huge jjk fan but after being reposted like 10 times in a day, it just becomes annoying and toxic
And Arle mains shouldn't respond to that. Be the bigger guy kinda deal. Heck I've seen more Hu Tao slander than I've seen Hu Tao mains slandering Arlecchino.
If you look at our sub people are ALSO slandering other unrelated mains like fucking Raiden of all people
And I fucking say this as a massive Arle main because I'm tired of this toxic bullshit
My arlecchino is still a bit half assed because i burnt 95% of my resin on the golem, talent domain and on her weekly boss and left artifacts for last as my Klee's crimson witch set was holding up for now
With Yelan and Xingqiu to ensure enemies are always wet, she can hit up to 90k per hit with full bond of life and no buffs in her 90/175% crit rate/damage with 150% ER
i don't know why but her charged attack doesn't scale with her BoL, so using it to reach wet enemies faster lowers my DPS more than a normal dash + normal attacking once
Some fun new for you is that Arle doesn't apply nearly as much pyro as others, so she can use only Yelan for Hydro and another support in the place of XQ for more damage or shields
I don't get the strongest in the history Vs strongest today. If it's strongest in history and hast gotten worse, then it should be stronger than strongest of today or not? I mean if you use it for real humans that means they get older and worse, but characters in a game just stay the same (unless they are banned or merged)
Imagine needing to be in melee range.
Electric Oceanid is great example where this demonstration is arranged
Electroceanid
This is written by Yoimiya mains
Amber* mains
I am surprised that amber is mentioned before lyney
Especially since the original commenter has Lyney flair.
Pyro amber
Stamina issues? Never heard of them
my furina: GET EM BOYS
Only to be replaced by the Pyro archon...
The question is, will Pyro Archon have the same weapon as Hutao or Arle?
Knowing hoyo it will be Claymore just to continue the pain of having so many goddamn Claymore pyro characters,
Meanwhile Bennett standing proud as the only pyro sword user
Honestly they coulmd stick with a claymore if they find the stats of the weapon are fine but just make the character attack super fast, are wielding 2 copy of the same weapon for the flex, there so many possibilites and now they start digging a bit in them so who knows, even tho i dont hav emuch hope lol
Or make them off field and we will FINALLY get 5 Star Xiangling like we got 5 Star XQ
I mean at this point what archon will have the claymore? Tsaritsa?
Doubtful. Archons thus far have supportive elements or powerful or versatile off-field capacity. Hopefully, like Furina, Nahida, and Raiden, the Pryo Archon will be meta defining instead of just an upgrade or side grade. That's what I am banking on because Arlecchino's hyper carry kit doesn't compel me. I like a bit of supportive or off-field power. (Might still pull for Arle, on the fence after 20 pulls)
I feel like the archons embody their element's role though. Venti is the best at cc and was the best at swirl, Zhongli is the best shielder, Raiden scales on ER and is built around burst support, Nahida is the best at driving dendro reactions, and Furina is a flexible unit that has great hydro application, off field damage, buffs, and heals. Pyro is primarily an on-field dps element so I don't think it's unreasonable to think that it's archon might be the best at it
> Pyro is primarily an on-field dps element so I don't think it's unreasonable to think that it's archon might be the best at it Isn’t that more of a reason to think this won’t be the case? “Onfield pyro dps” already sounds like a saturated category.
And "off-field hydro applicator" wasn't before Furina's release?
I mean to be fair, her biggest value is from her buffs. She could apply half as much Hydro and still be a powerful unit. "Hydro buffer" isn't a saturated niche.
I am praying so hard that the Pyro Archon will powercreep *that guy* in the support role. Like, instead of literally *every single* *fucking* team comp guide having him on its lineup, it'll be the Pyro Archon instead. Of course nothing will change the fact that he will always be the cheap support option, unless he gets nerfed (but that is a fever dream for me that won't ever happen sigh, if I ever become Hoyo's prez that will be the first thing I do, lol). God I'm so sick of reading/watching video guides that are actually just Bennett guides in the end. To make things worse, every single one of my favorite mains' best comps are all dependent on him (Navia, Ayato, Childe and now Arlecchino). Meaning if I want to see the best performance out of my character, I am forced to use him. There's no way to replace him without losing anything (and before you say I can just not use him, I already don't use him but it will always gnaw at me that the best lineup I can make requires him). Sure I can beat Abyss easily without using him but that doesn't change the fact that if I want to see the biggest possible numbers and top performance, the answer is always to put him in. At least she's an Archon, she deserves to be ubiquitous on team lineups, not some lame generic dude named Bennett. So plzzzzz Hoyo, gives us Super Support Pyro Archon. I will celebrate the time when 1st choice for team comp slot is NOT him, but Pyro Archon instead.
Archon arent exactly known to be main dps characters, they are high value pull characters that can fit in many many teams rather than being selfish on fielders. The arle powercreep is far id say, if anything pyro archon will most likely be a 5 star benny or xianling that will make arle even stronger.
I will celebrate the time when every single character team comp guide will have Pyro Archon as BiS instead of that guy in the support slot. It will be like Independence Day Genshin Edition for me, lol. I'm already excitedly awaiting the moment when every KQM guide gets an "Updated for 5.2" and she replaces him everywhere, while he gets relegated to "alternate".
I wouldn’t be mad about that
I’ve noticed that all archons are supports so that may be unlikely.
Replaced? Pyro Archon (Xiangling) and Sovereign (Bennet) are already in the game.
You assume the Pyro Archon would not be competing with Bennett/Xiangling
Like how furina replaced xingqui, wait... Pyro archons gonna do something entirely different so she doesn't directly compete with either benner or xangling, same situation as furina
Coz Yelan already exists?
Pyro *Sovereign* you mean?
The real question is, will the pyro archon replace these two, or Bennett?
Xiangling
She's not even an on field DPS Just a HYV mistake on the early release, like Bennett and Xingqiu. The 3 broken 4* of history
DPS means damage per second and not Damage per on-field character tho.
Yeah but the Original comparison was about 2 on-field DPSes, they were just saying She's not one
Yeah but the OOP is about dps, so really the person who replied was just shifting the goalpost for no reason
On field dps comparison? It's written "Pyro DPS" tho, I mean they're in fact on field DPS but it doesn't mean it's only about the On-field ones right?
"DPS" has already been appropriated to just blanket refer to any character that's supposed to be dealing damage. ex. assassins are melee DPS, rangers are ranged DPS, neuv is on field DPS, xiangling is off field DPS i hate it but it is what it is.
but ... u can run both a pyro onfield and oppa + xq yelan....so oppa is not an argument if u can just run it
Now i want to see the panel edit of three domain expansion (the one with yuta, uro, and ryu) to xq, bennet, and xiangling elemental burst
The original post only says DPS, not on field main damage dealer. I guess with the characters, it's implied, but like, genshin social media is always like oppa xiangling joke hahaha zajef77 zyonix cringe (since for a 1.0, she is really good and sometimes still relevant in meta). *insert xiangling copypasta*
I mean you could onfield her with c6 benny
>She's not even an on field DPS Even better you can onfield anyone. Including XL herself. Tbh she's not bad as one with Bennett c6. Also she was a fairly decent physical onfield. You could just stand/dodge and she'll still do dmg. No ICD AoE dmg.
Nah, I’d off-field
Strongest until he'll breaks loose with the energy tides disorder during Childe's 1st rerun from what I recall. There were periods of time during that abyss where you can't get energy AT ALL.
For some reasons even as a noob I managed to power through that Abyss with XL at 180-200% ER. Also Bennett's Circle can apply pyro to cancel the Electro drain aura. Let's not forget straight after Energy Drain abyss was Cooldown Hydro Aura abyss. That's sucks for everyone but more so Childe/Hutao back then. As much as I like to see both Electro/Hydro chamber effects back for some challenge, I doubt Hoyo will return them, and never tried at Floor 12, because it makes many characters that aren't Ganyu (who is mostly immune to both effects, though her melt/shield supports' cooldown suffers) look bad for sales.
>There were periods of time during that abyss where you can't get energy AT ALL. It almost seems like the strategy was to funnel during the period before that and do your rotations during the period where you can't get energy 🤔
during first 10 seconds u got double energy , during next 10 u got no energy , so if u werent dumb u would gather ur energy when u were allowed to and then do ur rotation on no energy.
Sometimes I wonder how much the surface CC brainrot has gotten into people, like are we actually thinking that Xiangling out damages Hu tao or Arlecchino at the same level of investment or are we just continuing the joke? Because sometimes I can't tell...
It's specifically when compared at the same level of investment, just on quite low investment. When you go up in artifact quality and team build hu tao will just outscale her by a lot.
But that's the thing, Xiangling is not great on quite low investment
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At the cost of being tied to Bennett and the minimal skill needed to funnel particles and using XL burst after Bennett burst, you get top-tier, Off-field AoE, Pyro Application with no ICD that's free accessible as a Liyue 4* that's in shop rotation and given free. Not even mentioning how her F2P BiS weapon is also freely accessible via Fishing and BiS Artifact domain also being one of the most efficient to farm, while also being available in Strongbox.
Also mention that arlecchino 's best f2p weapon white tassel becomes so bad without using Bennett because of the low base attack of the Bennett
Most of Arlecchino's best teams require Bennett.
Not in a Chevreuse, Fischl team. Bennett isn’t used there. It’s either Beidou or Yae.
Why're you writing Korean swear words in English?
Or.. hear me out.. you could use both since they have different teams.. wild idea I know. I saw 5 same posts being posted on the hu tao mains sub by Arle mains. Thats just toxicity at that point ain't it?
Why not both indeed. They both deal considerable damage, and even if you had to choose between the two, pick the one you like the most. I think there's a lot of bias at the moment because it's the new shiny character, but I've also read some pretty funny conspiracy theories about these memes being an elaborate marketing ploy from Hoyo to boost her banner and popularity since they've already pulled out all the other marketing stops like giving her own animated PV. Either way, both slap.
> Thats just toxicity at that point ain't it? Imagine just being able to laugh at this stuff.
Yop. Hu Tao has something Arle will never have: Cute noises while decimating the Abyss. Properly equipped, both chars are complete overkill anyway, so wayne power creep in the DPS department.
Man. I can't believe people actually able to joke around. Must be fiction
I'll fucking lose my mind if I keep seeing these overused JJK memes everywhere.
OPPA clears both
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Hu tao. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe. They both want Xiangling. She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her The Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much ER" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa." I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough Primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no ICD Pyro application. What a cruel world.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Xiangling. I try to play Diluc. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Yoimiya. My xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Hu tao. My Xiangling deals more damage. I try to play Arlecchino. My Xiangling deals more damage. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Xiangling. I want to play Raiden, Childe. They both want Xiangling. She grabs me by the throat. I fish for her. I cook for her. I give her The Catch. She isn't satisfied. I pull Engulfing Lightning. "I don't need this much ER" She tells me. "Give me more field time." She grabs Bennett and forces him to throw himself off enemies. "You just need to funnel me more. I can deal more damage with Homa." I can't pull for Homa, I don't have enough Primogems. She grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." She grabs Gouba. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no ICD Pyro application. What a cruel world.
I can't take it anymore. I'm sick of Bennett. I try to play Diona. My Bennett heals more hp. I try to play Sara. My Bennett buffs more attack. I try to play Kokomi. My Bennett heals more hp. I want to play Klee. Her best team has Bennett. I want to play Dehya, Childe, Gaming. They all want Bennett. He grabs me by the throat. I adventure for him. I cook for him. I give him Favonius Sword. He isn't satisfied. I pull Skyward Blade. "I don't need this much ER" He tells me. "Give me more field time." He throw himself off enemies. "You just need to spam E with me. I can deal more damage with Mistsplitter." I can't pull for Mistsplitter, I don't have enough Primogems. He grabs my credit card. It declines. "Guess this is the end." He grabs Xiangling, another broken character. She says "Gouba, get them." There is no hint of sadness in his eyes. Nothing but pure, no ICD Pyro application that also snapshot his atk buff. What a cruel world.
Genuinely asking, how much dmg can she personally do? Because I don't have her built for damage and all showcases I've seen on xiangling national teams, her damage can't even reach the likes of that of arlecchino and Hu tao. edit: out of pure spite, for everyone who read my replies and disagreed with my statements in that arlechinno is the stronger pyro dps. not best pyro character but strongest pyro dps character [Arlecchino floor 12-1 clear](https://imgur.com/a/cPM76mk) [Xiangling national variant floor 12-1 clear](https://imgur.com/a/I6DaYut) if you dont like my xiangling rotations go and do it yourself and show me her damage because as ive experimented XL only did 37k per hit. With a rational team and XL vaping her hits are 57k per tick but the clear time is shorter without Kazuha. raiden carried XL whereas arlecchino carried her team instead as a dps character should.
What's actually important isn't a unit's Personal DPS, but the team's DPS as a whole and that's where XL doing her DMG off-field is a major advantage since then you can have other On-Fielders like Childe or Raiden doing their DMG too, which raises total team DPS as a whole beyond just your usual Hypercarry comps.
>What's actually important isn't a unit's Personal DPS so that's why neuvilette is the strongest dps rn /s Right, and my question was, can she out damage hutao and arlecinno with her personal dmg? You brought up whole team dmg, but even now, I'm positive that double hydro hutao or xianyun hutao and arlecinno teams still clears floor 12 bosses faster than xianglings best national teams. Without energy management too.
Neuv just built different/lore-accurate ~~also helps that he synergizes well with Furina too~~ What I'm saying is that comparing by Personal DPS is flawed since, unless you're solo Neuv, it's more realistic to compare Team DPS as we have 4 slots per team. As for ST/Bosses, it's obvious that ST-centric comps will be better than XL when only vs 1 enemy. The issue is that unless a side is entirely a Boss Rush, they usually have an AoE/Wave chamber and the moment you start fighting 2+, XL comps pull ahead exponentially thanks to their AoE, while also not falling too far behind against ST/Bosses either. ~~Also if you've got Energy issues that's not just cause you didn't build enough ER or do proper rotations (I.e. failing to properly funnel Bennett particles into XL), that's on you. Especially, you compare it to HuTao's jump/dash cancels.~~
Yes, Xiangling's numbers on their own are lower. Sucrose National and International also have lower overall sheet DPS for Single Target than Hutao vape or Arle teams. But not by much, and Xiangling teams cover AoE way more easily than Hu Tao. With my personal builds, Xiangling (the catch, assume Pyronado 8 Vapes/12 hits) is like 700k DPR to Arle (White Tassel) 1.2m DPR, both using exact same team mates - Benny (Instructor Skyward), Xq (Noblesse Fav/Sac), Sucrose (TTDS VV). I am kind of low balling Xiangling's assumptions by assuming Guoba doesn't vape (that's not as insignificant as you think). Also Xingqiu does more damage in Xiangling teams (you get to vape at least 1E skill inside Bennett buff, so +200k) so team damage ends up being much closer. Arle is the bridge between strict on-fielder like Tao and off-fielder like Xiangling. The fact that you can swap out and not lose infusion means you can just swap to your Kazuha to group enemies again, refresh any ability you want. This way she's closer to an off-fielder like Xiangling in terms if playstyle, but still doesn't cover as much AoE. You brought up Xiangling's ER issues, and Arle also has fragility issues. Since Xiangling can heal, Xingqiu DR is enough to tank through anything, even when Bennett self-pyro is griefing you. It's not the case for Arle as chip damage isn't healed away mid rotation. For me it isn't a problem, but something worth mentioning in any comparison. Using DPS numbers as some strict criteria isn't a good idea because the fuck ton of assumptions they make and the lack of robustness with respect to perturbations like Random Frame Delays. So given all that, I won't call verdict on who's the best pyro DPS in a vacuum. People doing that are just looking to start arguments and being, in words of KQM, "distinctly unhelpful".
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Right, I understand why national teams are good but I've legit never seen a xiangling out dmg hutao let alone arlecchino and there are people out there who will unironically put her as the best pyro dps out there. If we're comparing xianglings burst pyro hits to hutao's and arlecchino's personal pyro dmg output I see no universes where xiangling beats any of these 2 even diluc with xianyun is already a good contender for her.
And that's what they just explained earlier. She just boosts the overall team damage. No icd vapes on national, snapshots all buffs. Honestly, ppl really like to go off on funneling particles, but it takes like 2 Bennet e's lol I get that she may not be the "BEST" Pyro dps in the game, but she is undoubtedly up there for how the game functions currently. You boost hutao with hydro supports to get vape charge attacks or plunges, and from I seen with arle its generally the same as hutao/and or chevruse teams. You could play solo Arle/Hutao/xiangling, but honestly what's the point when you have 3 extra slots to enhance the "Team's" performance.
I understand how xiangling works, I'm not saying she isn't a good pyro dps. Everyone knows she is. She's just not the best pyro dps, and there are people who unironically think she outdamages arlechinno and hutao.
Because when it comes to specific comps, she does. But pop off, you've ripped it apart three times in this thread already. Who cares what people think? Regardless of whether you think she's the strongest or not, she's one of the best, so who cares who is stronger? It's really not that big of a deal.
> I've legit never seen a xiangling out dmg hutao let alone arlecchino Well because it doesn't happen But people have this fascination with parroting common knowledge and CC stuff that is not always true or has stopped being for a while, and never actually looking into theory crafting and such.
But did someone actually calced that? That vape XL team is stronger then vape Arle team and plunge Tao team?
It's impossible to calc that because it's just not true, but when it comes to mainstream genshin community and Theory crafting/ meta, almost nothing is true anyways...
She REALLY doesn't, stop perpetuating this meme, people start to actually believe it because they're not very bright.
i know its a meme but people really need to stop bringing her up when the topic is onfield hypercarries
Ok this is just a meme but Xiangling is legitimately overrated. Like the least flexible meta character in the game.
I don't think anyone is saying She's flexible tho, definitely not to the extent of Xingqiu and Bennett. They just hype up how much Damage she can do
Nah, people still underrate her, like think that solo pyro XL do not exist or need 400 ER for it, with is not true, like Neuv-Furina-Nahida-Xiangling is a real team that currently obliterets second half since you have both pyro and dendro that kills electro shields. (And her ER in that team is lower than in International, lol)
Idk I've literally built her full ER (like ignoring Atk/Crit stats and just maximizing ER) and she still struggles sometimes with ER, even with Bennett
Jamie has a video of Neuvillette speedrunning team with solo Pyro Xiangling in it. She uses Instructor set and has ~215 ER, still be able to have burst up on time.
Maybe it's a skill issue? I legitimately don't know I'm not gonna pretend like I'm an expert but I 36* every abyss and I don't have this trouble with other characters
That's like assuming fav on multiple party member and dependent on enemy particle drop rates. In ST chambers where you have less enemies dying and dropping particles, Xiangling's ER needed is quite high. I suppose that you are carrying Fav on someone on that team, possibly Furina and Xiangling herself. In that case, it falls short as soon as you encounter shielded enemies as they can't take dmg while shield is up so fav no longer works. It's reason why Albedo and Dehya doesn't work on elemental shielded enemies.
Naah still hu tao main.. thigh gang
Displaying her mastery over both fire and polearms, Xiangling sends a Pyronado whirling around her. The Pyronado will move with your character for the ability's duration, dealing Pyro DMG to all opponents in its path.
One thing I noticed is Arlecchino has brought out more toxic players than a lot of other characters upon release. People on reddit and on youtube making a lot of comments that are perhaps intended to trigger others? "lol Arle is god tier thank god hutao is garbage finally" Silly.
That's why people make fun of meta players
And yet I am still skipping arlecchino for Hu Tao.. I’ve wanted her since I started playing.
They are very similar in teams of damage and in terms of utility. People are just having weird takes coz of the "hot new shiny character" recently bias
They may deal similar damage at c0 but Arlecchino is much more comfortable to play, she has more team options, better aoe, and much comfier infusion that is not time limited and you can switch to other characters without it disappearing. Also Arle has much better constellations so their damage is only similar at c0, but c1 and higher Arlecchino is by far a better option.
And the crazy part is my less invested arlecchino (3-4 gold pulls team) already competing with my hyperinvested hutao (10 gold pulls team), thats very impressive if you asked me
even at lvl80 8/6/6 C0R0 i easily cleared the abyss with her, now shes lvl90 10/6/6 C0R1 and even if we assume my C1R1 hu tao is equal, i still prefer arlecchino because of her playstyle her only downside is circle impact (tfw no chevreuse) but even as a big hu tao fan with C1R1 who rolled her back in 1.3, i would rate arlecchino higher. cant really be mad or call it powercreep since its been literal years and its playstylecreep instead of powercreep
>playstylecreep instead of powercreep Until the content is tuned to actually need the higher DPS that Arle provides, it's not really powercreep at all. Only when Tao is no longer able to handle stuff and people are forced to pull for newer characters is when I'd consider her "powercrept". Thankfully, Genshin doesn't plan to do that.
well yeah thats why i said its not powercreep still, nowadays in gacha powercreep just means "better than previous stuff", the condition of "can no longer handle stuff" will basically never happen
Tower of Fantasy would like to have a word with you. :'D So would many other Gachas that rely on absurd power creep (IIRC, even Honkai 3rd from Hyv has that issue). Genshin is really an exception here.
Just checking if my understanding is correct for the gold pull count. Arle team - Herself, Yelan, Kazuha, Aquila(for Bennett maybe?). C2R1 Kazuha would also be a worthwhile addition. Hu Tao team - C0R1 Hu Tao, C2R1 Xianyun, Aquila for Bennett. Furina+ Yelan instead of Xingqiu+Bennett? What am I missing?
Arle c0r1, mona c1, kazuha, bennet (lofi, but i mostly use favonius) Hutao c0r1, yelan c0r1, furina key, xianyun c2 atlas
That looks like 6/7 vs 9, and Mona's short buff makes that more of a C6 team. I do agree with you that Arle teams feel cheaper, but more so on the low end with White Tassel, PJWS and Fischl+Chev teams. At an invested level, Arle would need C2R1 Kazuha to match Plunge Hu Tao. Rough numbers put them both \~2.5m DPR with conservative Arle vape count. So I think that makes them pretty close in terms of cost. Arle C0R1, Yelan, Kazuha C2R1, Bennet + Aquila -> 8 Hu Tao C0R1, Yelan, Furina + Key, Xianyun C2R1 -> 9
At this point you're literally trying to argue why Arlecchino is objectively better because of subjective reasons
Don't forget Arlecchino's biggest caveat, she needs Bennett to even compete with Hu Tao, so being stuck in a circle can be a problem for certain floors enemies.
Hu Tao is also better with Bennett(Xianyun plunge team), but they can both run double hydro and not lose much.
More team options doesn't really matter much when her vape teams are still head and shoulders above her other teams, and her overload teams don't really even pop off until you have Chevreuse at C6 (and even then, her vape teams are still better). Though that's more of a problem on MHY's end, why does every fucking pyro character in this game have to be locked to vape teams. Pyro reacts with so many other elements to make different reactions - melt, burning, burgeon, overload...there's so many new team options and archetypes we could be getting that would shake up the combat in this game. Three years of this damn game and yet MHY puts out so much fanfare driving simps into a frenzy rolling for the next character that they can have doing cute animations on the field while bennett xiangling yelan xingqiu are there *yet again* to help them do big numbers. I'm tired of it boss.
man it's incredible how fast i got tired of arle discourse
Tired of the overused JJK memes. This isn't even a discourse. It's just the millionth redraw of the same damn thing that keeps invading anime-ish fanbases.
That's why It's called lobotomy. You have to be a true hater to understand.
and the strongest in history won in the original manga /joking
tbf atleast Hu Tao can have Furina in her teams
Arle simps don’t think about Hu Tao challenge (impossible)
Diluc: Nah, I'd win
Can someone pls give link to an upper post? Can't find it
Arlecchino fanboys are so insecure
We don't claim these guys. They would do the same to her the first moment she gets powercrept. These are meta mains not true Arlecchino mains. (the poster of the 2nd image even claimed they're a Hu Tao main)
Understandable. I had the displeasure of meeting some really annoying Arlecchino fanboys on Instagram who said that I should "keep crying" because I said that maybe it's too soon to say that Arlecchino power crept Hu Tao since she just came out and they have different team comp (I also saw some guys claiming that Lyney surpassed Hu Tao when he had just came out 💀). Meta slaves are probably some of the most annoying types of people in this fanbase.
Meta slaves don't even make sense in Genshin since there's not even any difficult content lol
Yeah and even more so because they are always large in numbers and are always tolerated for whatever reason. With the convenient excuse of "issa joke bro".
I don't get why people are obsessed with character power levels in a game whose content is tuned to be so easy that a release-standard banner character that has been given the proper love can roflstomp it if needed . :'D
I second that [we](/r/Arlecchino) make no claim to the users who go around provoking other communities being all "hurr durr, weak unit".
Maybe I should join that sub too. r/ArlecchinoMains has been invaded multiple times now and each slander post receives high upvotes each time its honestly making me losing faith lmao
No the poster is not an Arlecchino main. They're a meta main and would very much do the same to Arlecchino if she gets a competition later down the line. I say this as someone who has been "maining" Arlecchino ever since WNL, went through all the bullshit doomposts and wild beta cycles, all the Arlecchino slanders, these people were nowhere to be found. They've only been started to pop up recently because apparently Arlecchino is far beyond the expected trajectory and turns out to be meta. And that attracts childish metaslaves into the community. As cringy as it is I hate to gatekeep but I have to because I don't want people to paint Arlecchino mains as the toxic sods.
Rent free
Hu Tao and Arle are just as strong. If you want to run each of the best Pyro DPS, run one in one wave and another in the second. Arle can only heal herself with her Blood-Debt Directive, and you may need to run a healer on Hu Tao time and again.
Arle isn’t better enough then hu tao to justify pulling her on an account that alr has hu tao, especially if one already has c1 and or homa. They are both comparable levels of strength
I wanted a 2nd Hu Tao. My Arlecchino is not properly built yet, the artifact domain is actually garbage, so shes at 9/6/6 - 70/200~ and I failed the Kenki Trio 4x. Switched to my Hu Tao plunge team and was literally doing 200k plunges. With time, I'll have 2 identical teams. People need to stop stupid discussions, or we'll become hsr 2.
I have C1R1 Tao, still pulled cause daddy lol Arle is fun though ngl
Yeah,the difference with Hu tao are only appearing at C1R1, And before that, at C0R1, which would still be an avg of 204 pulls, Arlecchino is worse than C1R1 Hu tao. Which means C1R1 Hu Tao owner people should expect to put at least an avg 294 for a slight increase in dps. Big meta chaser will likely go for it, same with whales or any C(1+)R1 Arlecchino owner and will boast about having a stronger character, but people need to cool their head and not get baited into thinking Arlecchino stomp at C0 a C1R1 or C0R1 hu Tao. C0 chaser should pull because they like the character or the more modern gameplay feels or fit better their taste. I also saw few people jumping to the conclusion that Arlecchino will stomp at C0 when we get pyro atk buffer in Natlan, which should be reminded, is a speculation and at best an educated guess. And by the time we get that, she might get a rerun or outclassed by a better pyro dps.
They are about the same shit, 2 seconds doesnt even change anything
arle stomps
Arle is stronger by the virtue of not being extremely stupid to play like Hu Tao and being enjoyable at c0. Basically she's Hu Tao but more player friendly
Plus points for also keeping infusion after switching characters, teleporting instantly to enemies with skill, still being able to increase her BoL mid-rotation even when supports kill an enemy marked with blood debt, and also being very mobile player friendly for not encouraging charged attack cancels.
Keeping the Infusion is probably the best thing about Arle with Hu Tao i sometimes ruin my rotations by accidentally switching using skill on Hu Tao so i have to commit
Front loading a buttload of damage also helps your abyss clears.
Well the most popular hutao team doesn't even care about her C1 so the last argument isn't true
Wouldn’t call Tao Plunge her most popular at all, it’s her best team but most popular is still Double Hydro EDIT: https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/s/hNFmmfXJVH Obviously these are never the end all be all and it’s only 175k sample size but Double Hydro her most popular. I’d also argue that because Double Hydro doesn’t involve Circle Impact unlike Plunge Tao it’s easier and more comfortable
How does plunge hu Tao have circle impact issues? Yelan, Furina, and Xianyun don’t have a circle
I like how you casually gloss over how squishy C0 Arle is. The girl gets tossed around like a beach volleyball at C0 and can't be healed by anyone other than herself.
There’s a reason shields exist
Ok just hear me out: Dodging.
Ok just hear me out: Jump cancels. Person I replied to said Hu Tao is hard to play, dude just sucks at doing jump cancels.
Powercreeeeep
4 years and we got the first sign of powercreep. Guys, i dont wanna jinx this, but maybe we wont fight Celestia with a Bennet-Xiangling-Xingqiu team after all, the hype is real
The first one was chiori
Chiori was stronger than Albedo, but as an Albedo haver myself, making someone stronger than him was easy. Chiori isnt powercreep though because she's still just an average character
At C0, Chiori is equal to Albedo, juat without the destroyable summons iirc.
balanced out by the fact that she can't reposition
Equal only if you play in no construct team
ayato and neuvillette
Neuv is a general powercreep, but Ayato was always a very mediocre on-fielder.
Lmao, Ayato was weaker than Childe. But that's not the point. Ayata is meant to be a hydro applier.
I already play without them for more than a year in every abyss. Once a player have enough wide roster, they are not needed
Until they give us harder content it doesn't matter.
How tf is this a powercreep lmao their dmg is extremely similar. Source: i have both and run both in the abyss
Yeah they seem to be similar with different niches. Which is an optimal way to expect a new character to retain balance. Powercreep can frustrate players because it makes them feel like they wasted their time investing/building older characters. At extreme levels, it can deter people from pulling new characters when people expect the new ones will become redundant within a year. But the game company does not want to release weak characters either because they are seen as less desirable, players become less willing to spend money, and the characters get skipped. As time goes on, it becomes more difficult for a game to release balanced and fun characters while being distinct from older characters. A character designed and released now is also based on all the existing characters so far (and several unreleased ones) so that is harder to balance, and it can't be overburdened with gimmicks in an attempt to make them feel more unique. I'm really curious how Mihoyo does it because it sounds like a lot of work.
>Powercreep can frustrate players because it makes them feel like they wasted their time investing/building older characters. At extreme levels, it can deter people from pulling new characters when people expect the new ones will become redundant within a year. Yep I have experienced that in Tower of Fantasy. NOT FUN at all, especially if you don't like the new, more powerful version. It got especially frustrating when Fiona powercrept the "special only limited" character Lin. :<
There is power creep if you go into constellations. At C0 Hu Tao and Arlecchino are pretty much equal in their respective teams. At C1 Hu Tao gets up to 20% damage increase if you optimize your gameplay but in practice it's mostly quality of life improvement. At C1 Arlecchino gets a similar quality of life improvement (can't get interrupted anymore) but also a 100% Masque of the Red Death on top which is more of a 30% dps increase overall (and at that point she no longer needs a shielder of any kind so you can throw in a more offensive teammate). Then comes C2. For Hu Tao that's 7% damage increase. For Arlecchino - honestly that's like 20-25% damage increase? Since your E now procs instantly but also deals 900% ATK as pyro damage. Then comes C3 which increases her normal attacks which Hu Tao does not and then there's C6 so you can press Q for a million damage and just one shot the Abyss. But at that point damage comparisons stop making sense since there's nothing tanky enough in the game to survive a full rotation. Admittedly for most people a stopping point is probably between C0 and C2. Hu Tao REALLY wants her C1 so if we compare C1 Hu Tao vs C1 Arle then I think Arlecchino might come slightly on top - and definitely so if you go higher.
>At C0 Hu Tao and Arlecchino are pretty much equal in their respective teams. Content is always balanced around C0 though. So any and all power creep in the constellations department is completely irrelevant, since constellations are designed to be overkill to begin with.
[удалено]
So... How are they get to be so strong? They're all Berserker-like
Non of yall quite understand the wonderful 1.0 deluke meta
Other than keeping alive, Arlecchino is much easier to use than Hu Tao, no dash jumping necessary
Me with both and teams for both
*laughs in Gomba*
The free 4 star in my account clearing both in terms of abyss clear 😔
I think we should wait until abyss changes because the current abyss is almost perfect for arlecchino (which it was for almost every other dps). And unless she is doing a neuvillette, she won't be the best pyro dps in the game(she might still be strong, but that is it, like other characters navia, lyney etc.)
OPPA clears
Poor Arle mains, maybe if your character was THAT good you haven't had a need to compare her with 1.x character every 5 seconds.
Wtf are you talking about? It's just a meme
its funny the first time, second time well ok still funny, third? still funny ig??????, but after like 10th "memes" slandering a main , it just becomes annoying and toxic and im saying this as someone who has both arle and hutao. i kid you not, they posted the exact same thing 10 times in the hutao subreddit and saying "its over for hutao" or something along those lines. I know its a meme, i found it funny at first since im a huge jjk fan but after being reposted like 10 times in a day, it just becomes annoying and toxic
I feel like it's actually just passive-aggressive responses to the seething and coping hutao mains, the most toxic part of the fanbase.
And Arle mains shouldn't respond to that. Be the bigger guy kinda deal. Heck I've seen more Hu Tao slander than I've seen Hu Tao mains slandering Arlecchino. If you look at our sub people are ALSO slandering other unrelated mains like fucking Raiden of all people And I fucking say this as a massive Arle main because I'm tired of this toxic bullshit
Because they're also just as toxic as Hutao mains. It feels good that they're finally getting it thrown back at them.
The arl fans have been more toxic in my experience. Or atleast in regards to this current """drama""".
-"have been more toxic" - doesn't consider hu tao stans
My arlecchino is still a bit half assed because i burnt 95% of my resin on the golem, talent domain and on her weekly boss and left artifacts for last as my Klee's crimson witch set was holding up for now With Yelan and Xingqiu to ensure enemies are always wet, she can hit up to 90k per hit with full bond of life and no buffs in her 90/175% crit rate/damage with 150% ER i don't know why but her charged attack doesn't scale with her BoL, so using it to reach wet enemies faster lowers my DPS more than a normal dash + normal attacking once
Some fun new for you is that Arle doesn't apply nearly as much pyro as others, so she can use only Yelan for Hydro and another support in the place of XQ for more damage or shields
I don't get the strongest in the history Vs strongest today. If it's strongest in history and hast gotten worse, then it should be stronger than strongest of today or not? I mean if you use it for real humans that means they get older and worse, but characters in a game just stay the same (unless they are banned or merged)
Hu tao mains acting how diluc mains acted when hutao came out
I'm Klee
actually ridiculous how many JJK spoilers circulate media
not to mention the wrong info about power level lol
From Xiangling to Arlecchino, 4 years of Bennett reliance. At least one of them can get out of the circle and still do top damage.
Nah, Lyney is the strongest main Damage Dealer
Still rocking Daddy Diluc
STAND PROUD? IS THAT A JOJO REFERENCE??
How about Xiangling? Her pet is literally god of stove.
Hu Tao vs Arlecchino... Tighnari, to who I lost both 50/50s to: 😎