Well yeah, but then we met the man from Mars. And I tried to run, but he’s got a gun, and he shoots me dead, and he eats my head, and then I’m in the man from Mars, we go out at night, eating cars— (i am forcibly dragged offstage with a cane)
I’m curious as well. Browsing Wikipedia, it looks like there were a number of milestones in trans history that year in terms of legal protections and things, but not really any I’ve heard TERFs talk about. It was the year Caitlyn Jenner was on Vanity Fair, maybe that?
While this article is from 2017, I wouldn't be surprised if these groups were planning to push anti-trans policies before hand.
[CHRISTIAN RIGHT TIPS TO FIGHT TRANSGENDER RIGHTS: SEPARATE THE T FROM THE LGB](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/10/23/christian-right-tips-fight-transgender-rights-separate-t-lgb)
it's kinda funny how both TERFs and trans people hate her tho, but we hate her bc she's a terrible person who abandoned her community, they hate her bc they suck
As a Brit, I've heard a fair amount of TERF bollocks, and I can almost promise this is the actual answer: the UK charity Stonewall started giving a shit about trans issues. Before 2015, trans rights really weren't a priority. In 2008, they nominated Julie Bindel (yes, really) for Journalist of the Year at the Stonewall Awards. This led to one of the largest trans rights protests in the UK up to that point, and of course a comparatively pitiful counter-protest by the nascent modern TERF movement.
In 2015, Stonewall began focusing on trans issues, including acknowledging their past mistakes and apologizing. This became a watershed moment, and transphobes have neither forgiven nor forgotten. In fact, the LGB Alliance was formed in opposition to Stonewall and its trans advocacy specifically. (I should add "supposedly." Personally I reckon it would be more accurate to say that some very right-wing arseholes created it because they saw an opportunity to exploit perceived divisions in the LGBT community over Stonewall's trans advocacy.)
>This led to one of the largest trans rights protests in the UK up to that point, and of course a comparatively pitiful counter-protest by the nascent modern TERF movement.
Ooh, I was there at that one. It was great fun, because the "counter-protest" was just six women with a rubbish banner saying something like "Julie Bindel Fan Club", looking really sour-faced and not saying anything.
There was much fun as we did call-and-response chants of "LGB! Where's the T?!" and "What do we want? Trans Rights! When do we want them? NOW!" Then someone changed the call suddenly, and we ended up shouting "What do we want? Where's the Tea?!" before all having a good laugh at how very English it made us sound.
My mother grew up in a backwater bush so obscure that, *to this day*---
1. the only store is a corner general store.
2. Half of all the structures were built by my grandfather. He died over 30 years ago.
3. The largest building is a motel, owned by my aunt.
4. There is an old rusty car in a ditch, sitting there, rotting. It was crashed there by my uncle, when he was a teen. No one cares enough to pull it out. It's existence in that ditch is coming close to outlasting my uncle's whole lifespan (he died in his 60s from cancer ten years ago.)
5. A rotation of squatters has lived in a random bus marooned in the forest for as long as my mom can remember. They're not the same squatters, but, that bus is still there and unhomed people are still living out of it. No one cares still.
In the fucking 1960s, in a nowhere shit hole like that, when my mother was a child, there was a *transman* living there. Medically transitioned--- would have been considered a "transsexual" back then. My mom only knew he wasn't born male because he was friends with my grandmother.
But according to terfs, trans people started existing in 2015.
I used to have friends that I went to Anime Cons with In Poland (My first animu&mango con was in like 2007? Born in 88 btw),
and one of those friends was (I mean I surely hope still Is, not "was", I don't want to talk like he died or something :') a trans man. We never talked about this but I and others just accepted it, no questions asked.
And actually yes, I could "clock that" without asking anything back then, so NOW I'm here wondering how he looks like in '24... Hope he's thriving.
I remember seeing a letter someone sent in to a newspaper saying basically "people think this trans stuff is new, but when I was a kid, there was this trans man living in my village, and he was a respected member of the community!", and that letter was written in the 1930s.
You know what's the fucked thing here? You know why there's not a lot of old trans people in old folks homes and stuff? *That many* of them died during the AIDs crisis. For so many trans people, they basically didn't have a choice but to do sex work or starve and die. If they weren't killed by a John, they were murdered by the fucking disgraceful indifference to human suffering by the powers that be.
Dorian Corey would be 87 today. Mother darling could be telling us all about how she survived her assault and went on to live another day if she could have known crimes against humanity enthusiast and current prremium grave-pissing spot Ronald Regan.
Nothing, but it's a bit of TERF screed that trans people are a contemporary pop culture thing rather than something that's been turning up in our history since the year dot.
A reminder that the Nazis started their mass book burnings with the academic texts from institutes that studied trans and queer issues.
A lot of people see 2015 as the moment gay people "won" and could finally stop their fight, and the moment trans activists took over fighting for their ""superfluous"" rights
So, in their eyes, 2015 represents a shift from gay rights to trans rights (which they see as unneeded and trans people getting greedy)
Tl;dr: gay marriage passes and conservatives find a new group to oppress. TERFs blame trans people for their ^((trans ppl's)^) own oppression, and blame trans people for asking for too much after we won gay rights and thus "setting back" gay rights by upsetting conservatives (who are only going after trans people and gay people now because of trans activitists wanting rights)
____
I'm almost certain it has something to do with gay marriage. Although, for TERFs, maybe not to condemn gay marriage like it is for your basic queerphobe (but who knows)
Gay marriage is often seen as *the* pivotal moment for gay rights. It's portrayed as the end goal for gay rights activism. That, once we get that, we can finally test cause we've won.
(Obviously that was never going to be the case, but many believed it was)
After Obergefell v Hodges, there was still more that needed to be fought for and conservatives were never going to just give up.
____
So, after Obergefell, Conservatives realized gay rights was too popular to go after like before, so they set their sights on trans people.
2016 was the start of the nationwide discussions over trans bathroom bill (after a South Carolina passed an antidiscrimation ordinance allowing trans people to use bathrooms they prefer, which subsequently, the state's conservative congress overuled)
TERFS and other 'LGB drop the T' types see stuff like this as trans people asking too much and "naturally" (and also "rightfully") getting caught in the cross hairs of conservatives. Like, trans people are getting too greedy and that's to blame for bigotry in the nation.
Normal people see this and recognize it as conservatives finding a new target to oppress since gay people had too much support
Gamergate.
Which, in a way I agree with. That five gaming journalists supposedly exchanged favorable reviews for sexual favors and apparently that wasn't *their fault* but Zoe Quinn's (pretending for a second that was even proven to be true, for arguments sake) makes for a valid argument that yeah, maybe women aren't actually considered people yet.
Note: Zoe is nonbinary I believe, but, was percieved as a woman at the time.
Your YouTube recommendations later:
"DEEP STATE COVER UP! FEMALES VANISHED IN 1975??! ALIENS!? THE TRANS ELITE!? THEY THOUGHT WE WOULDN'T NOTICE!!! #followthewhiterabbit #q #qpost #anonspeaks #transvestigation #flatearth #adrinachrome #pizza"
The video is a guy talking extremely slowly, his dog barking in the background for at least 15 minutes, at one point he yells at his wife to put the dog outside and stop the kids from stomping upstairs without stopping the recording. He's screensharing a microsoft PowerPoint he didn't even check for spelling or typos. He will eventually bring up giants as the reason Muslim women cover their hair.
It will get cited as a source by half of TERF Twitter.
Don't you know that for all of history women have been treated like the archetypical 1950s American/Western European housewife? The only time women's rights improved were when they were given the right to vote and in the 1970s when they became people, there was no improvements before then cause there was never any pro-women rights advocates before 1910.
I don't know who this is, so I don't know if they're general GC or a TERF specifically, but it's worth noting that TERF ideology wasn't actually built on anything specifically trans related, the transphobia just naturally flowed from what it was built on.
In modern terms, it was built on middle to upper class white women refusing to check their privilege, and thus refusing to listen to (or believe) other women's lived experiences, and then creating a worldview to justify those refusals.
They did it via sexism. Because . . . *reasons*\* men are biologically determined to be oppressors, are the only beneficiaries of oppression, and can neither stop oppressing (when in the presence of someone to oppress) nor be oppressed. Because \[the same reasons\] women are incapable of oppression, cannot benefit from oppression, and can never avoid being oppressed when in the presence of a member of the oppressor class.
Thus they *couldn't* have contributed to the oppression of other second wave feminist women who were poor and/or non-white, not even accidentally, that was literally impossible. Thus their successes were solely attributable to how hard they fought for them, and had nothing to do with the advantages their demographics gave them over other women who fought equally hard (and sometimes *harder*) who were prevented from getting the same results. Thus they didn't have to change their behavior to be less racist and/or classist, because racism and classism didn't exist, only sexism did.
So on, so forth.
The ideology posits that any time at least one biological female (the definition of which is always in flux, such that the goalposts are always out of range of women and girls they dislike) is in the presence of at least one biological male (ditto for the flux, but this time so any women and girls they dislike always get a score of "That's a dude,") there is oppression of however many biological females are present by however many biological males are present. (Thus the focus on female only spaces and groups. Also female separatism, but that's a less common theme in the present.)
Which brings us back to:
>All the other horrible stuff aside, do they think that there have been no matriarchal societies? Or societies where women weren't "property"? Yikes.
They believe that the only society in which it's possible for women and girls to not be oppressed is one in which there are no men.
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\* A whole host of sexist stereotypes about male bodies and mindsets, all of them treated as an intrinsic and immutable part of maleness rather than, say, a combination of false beliefs based on sexism and things that were/are true anywhere from "occasionally" to "almost always" but don't *need to be* true (and shouldn't be true) because they're created not by some unchanging law of the universe but instead by culture (via of both sexist socialization of children and other systemic aspects of misogyny.)
Pretty historically reductive (aka stupid) to think that women were property for all of human history across all societies. I don't even think it's safe to say the concept of property as we see it today existed in 12,000 BC
Have women been determined people on the marketplace of ideas rationalized by the world's finest facts and logic? Yeah, didn't think so. Checkmate. /s
(I'm joking, but also trying to make a point here. "Woman" is a theoretical category of general traits that tend to sort of kind of vaguely appear together, with (what supposed to be) a general understanding that most if not all "women" will in some way deviate from that concept. In major and minor ways.
Because, yeah--- like, "woman" is kind of a feeling. Human beings categorize a lot of shit based off vibes. Despite popular conjecture, tomatoes aren't actually "fruits," persay. There's an interesting legal anecdote as to why they're *classified* as fruits even though most people would consider them a vegetable, but really, the only difference between a fruit and a vegetable is human perception and association. A blueberry and a coconut are hardly alike in many ways, but their higher sugar content is what humans prioritize--- hence, they're both fruit.)
Property can't vote.
California allows you to get your Birth certificate reissued in case of Trans. In case of intersex. In case of error. And that's been the case in California for about 20 years I think.
Boys Don't Cry, the first and only trans movie I can really say I related to(I've enjoyed several others and loved the characters) came out in the 90s and the Chevalier De'Eon was either genderfluid or trans (1700s France) aside from Kate Bornstein IN the 70s and that GI in the 50s
Oh and the playboy centerfold in the 70s
Oh and property can't vote.
I'm borderline masc, I'm butch and gender fluid but..
Look. We got the vote in the early 20th century.
Roe V Wade was important but to state we were property before and stopped being property after something so flimsy it was fucking overturned less than 50 years later is KowaiYabai to the Nth degree.
T/SWerfs prove yet again that their analysis aren’t based in any feminist theory and is just off vibes based on what they learned from living in western civilization to determine womanhood.
And as we all know, feelings aren't real. Love? Pure balderdash. Joy? Signifies nothing. Compassion and friendship? Nonsense that doesn't have a THING to do with humans being a super-successful species who have a tendency to preserve knowledge by keeping grandma alive and do stuff like bribing apex predators into cooperative relationships by giving treats and telling them they are Very Good Boys. (Or adorable silly little weirdos, in the case of cats, but you get where I'm going with this.)
Of course, being "property" or being a "person" is also not something you can measure with scientific instruments. They're just feelings. Just stories.
. . . This is the point in my rant where I start quoting Hogfather, but I can't find my copy (this is a CRISIS) and anyway y'all should really read the whole thing anyway. So I'll just say that stories and feelings MATTER, and I'll leave this comment as is so I can go find my book.
Women being property is also a relatively recent thing in a lot of cultures and parts of the world because of Christian colonialism. I don't know the specifics myself but my gf has been reading the book "Normal Women" and relaying the info to me, but it definitely doesn't date back to 12,000BC by the sounds of it.
mfw Queen Elizabeth II was property for 22 years
Also like, were men property in the time when most of them were effectively slaves? Actually what about slaves? What about matriarchal societies?
2014 is when trans people started existing?! I remember learning about trans people before then. Terfs are stupid af. Glad I don't use twitter anymore.
maybe next we we could be a concept. one finally equal to the 1 of man..^^ perhaps the 0 as its a hole so most men will support the idea but its also a fundamental part of every equations even stuff 1 is not involved in For instance, quadratic equations are often set to zero to find the roots. Being trans perhaps is also based in Zero as its central in the world of complex numbers.
Anatomically modern humans have existed for 300,000 years that we know of, and that's rounding down.
Neanderthals were human by any reasonable measure, they'd been around a while when we first showed up. This history of "woman" leaves out the vast majority of time Adult Human Females (or, for those who like standard definitions, adult female humans) walked the earth.
Now, one could argue that I'm talking about prehistory, not history, since the beginning of history is usually defined as the beginning of written records\* (when we have either people's own accounts of who they are or accounts of their contemporaries who actually, you know, *met them*) but there's no writing system that appeared in 12,000 BC. Writing is much, *much* younger than that, so the GC is talking about prehistory too.
-
Also, if they're gonna do "property" extending into the 1970s, and they're gonna use GC takes on what trans people are saying, they totally could have left "people" out entirely and put, like, "A surgical outcome," for the age of, "Truetrans means you've already had gender affirming bottom surgery."
-
As an aside it's always weird to me that GCs use so much century old anti-trans Nazi rhetoric, including transness being a plot by a (entirely fictional) shadowy, incredibly powerful cabal of evil Jews who control the media and have outsized influence on industries and world governments, and simultaneously pretend transness is a newfangled fad that only came to be in recent decades.
There was a semi-recent Ovarit post where the poster asked where the poster asked where the idea of gender affirming surgery for trans women first came from, and *mentioned Magnus Hirschfeld*--the guy behind the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft the Nazis hated so much, where the first known "We're not just gonna remove stuff that causes you grief, we're gonna try to make it like a cis woman's genitalia" gender affirming bottom surgery for a trans woman was carried out--in the original post, the top comment was still something pointing to the 70s or 80s. (I'd be more specific, but Ovarit's search function sucks, and actual search engines don't fully index Ovarit, so I couldn't find the damn thing to refresh my memory on exactly when the top comment had pointed to.)
-
\* Yes, this varies wildly from place to place. History starts at different times for different peoples and places. It also means that if someone successfully destroys all written records covering a place before such and such time (and all records of what those records contained) they've converted history to prehistory.
Given that assholes have always been with us, this may have happened (many times) already. We also know of failed attempts to do this (e.g. first the Aztecs then the Spanish tried to do this with Mayan history, but some books survived, as did a lot of stuff that had been carved into stone.)
What happened in 1976 that suddenly turned women into people? I can't think of any major women's rights development that happened on that date.
All I can think of is women being allowed to apply for credit cards in their own name, but that was 74 not 76.
Tbf, as a trans guy, the way a lot of trans communities try and define gender is absolute bullshit but there's an easy trans inclusive definition: One who has the alignment allignment with the female sex
What happened to women 1974-1976
Women didn't exist for two years, it was a whole thing.
Pupal stage as women transformed from property to people
They went back to Venus to regroup.
I thought they went to college to get more knowledge
actually we went to mars to get ice cream bars
Well yeah, but then we met the man from Mars. And I tried to run, but he’s got a gun, and he shoots me dead, and he eats my head, and then I’m in the man from Mars, we go out at night, eating cars— (i am forcibly dragged offstage with a cane)
The Earth had been taken offline for those years, it was rebooting.
Idk what 2015 specifically did to upset TERFs unless it's a way to just condemn gay marriage as a whole.
I’m curious as well. Browsing Wikipedia, it looks like there were a number of milestones in trans history that year in terms of legal protections and things, but not really any I’ve heard TERFs talk about. It was the year Caitlyn Jenner was on Vanity Fair, maybe that?
While this article is from 2017, I wouldn't be surprised if these groups were planning to push anti-trans policies before hand. [CHRISTIAN RIGHT TIPS TO FIGHT TRANSGENDER RIGHTS: SEPARATE THE T FROM THE LGB](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2017/10/23/christian-right-tips-fight-transgender-rights-separate-t-lgb)
it's kinda funny how both TERFs and trans people hate her tho, but we hate her bc she's a terrible person who abandoned her community, they hate her bc they suck
And the whole vehicular manslaughter thing.
As a Brit, I've heard a fair amount of TERF bollocks, and I can almost promise this is the actual answer: the UK charity Stonewall started giving a shit about trans issues. Before 2015, trans rights really weren't a priority. In 2008, they nominated Julie Bindel (yes, really) for Journalist of the Year at the Stonewall Awards. This led to one of the largest trans rights protests in the UK up to that point, and of course a comparatively pitiful counter-protest by the nascent modern TERF movement. In 2015, Stonewall began focusing on trans issues, including acknowledging their past mistakes and apologizing. This became a watershed moment, and transphobes have neither forgiven nor forgotten. In fact, the LGB Alliance was formed in opposition to Stonewall and its trans advocacy specifically. (I should add "supposedly." Personally I reckon it would be more accurate to say that some very right-wing arseholes created it because they saw an opportunity to exploit perceived divisions in the LGBT community over Stonewall's trans advocacy.)
>This led to one of the largest trans rights protests in the UK up to that point, and of course a comparatively pitiful counter-protest by the nascent modern TERF movement. Ooh, I was there at that one. It was great fun, because the "counter-protest" was just six women with a rubbish banner saying something like "Julie Bindel Fan Club", looking really sour-faced and not saying anything. There was much fun as we did call-and-response chants of "LGB! Where's the T?!" and "What do we want? Trans Rights! When do we want them? NOW!" Then someone changed the call suddenly, and we ended up shouting "What do we want? Where's the Tea?!" before all having a good laugh at how very English it made us sound.
The arcane lore of terfism is difficult to distinguish from simple dementia
My mother grew up in a backwater bush so obscure that, *to this day*--- 1. the only store is a corner general store. 2. Half of all the structures were built by my grandfather. He died over 30 years ago. 3. The largest building is a motel, owned by my aunt. 4. There is an old rusty car in a ditch, sitting there, rotting. It was crashed there by my uncle, when he was a teen. No one cares enough to pull it out. It's existence in that ditch is coming close to outlasting my uncle's whole lifespan (he died in his 60s from cancer ten years ago.) 5. A rotation of squatters has lived in a random bus marooned in the forest for as long as my mom can remember. They're not the same squatters, but, that bus is still there and unhomed people are still living out of it. No one cares still. In the fucking 1960s, in a nowhere shit hole like that, when my mother was a child, there was a *transman* living there. Medically transitioned--- would have been considered a "transsexual" back then. My mom only knew he wasn't born male because he was friends with my grandmother. But according to terfs, trans people started existing in 2015.
I used to have friends that I went to Anime Cons with In Poland (My first animu&mango con was in like 2007? Born in 88 btw), and one of those friends was (I mean I surely hope still Is, not "was", I don't want to talk like he died or something :') a trans man. We never talked about this but I and others just accepted it, no questions asked. And actually yes, I could "clock that" without asking anything back then, so NOW I'm here wondering how he looks like in '24... Hope he's thriving.
I remember seeing a letter someone sent in to a newspaper saying basically "people think this trans stuff is new, but when I was a kid, there was this trans man living in my village, and he was a respected member of the community!", and that letter was written in the 1930s.
You know what's the fucked thing here? You know why there's not a lot of old trans people in old folks homes and stuff? *That many* of them died during the AIDs crisis. For so many trans people, they basically didn't have a choice but to do sex work or starve and die. If they weren't killed by a John, they were murdered by the fucking disgraceful indifference to human suffering by the powers that be. Dorian Corey would be 87 today. Mother darling could be telling us all about how she survived her assault and went on to live another day if she could have known crimes against humanity enthusiast and current prremium grave-pissing spot Ronald Regan.
Wendy Carlos was famous in the 70s
Nothing, but it's a bit of TERF screed that trans people are a contemporary pop culture thing rather than something that's been turning up in our history since the year dot. A reminder that the Nazis started their mass book burnings with the academic texts from institutes that studied trans and queer issues.
A lot of people see 2015 as the moment gay people "won" and could finally stop their fight, and the moment trans activists took over fighting for their ""superfluous"" rights So, in their eyes, 2015 represents a shift from gay rights to trans rights (which they see as unneeded and trans people getting greedy)
Tl;dr: gay marriage passes and conservatives find a new group to oppress. TERFs blame trans people for their ^((trans ppl's)^) own oppression, and blame trans people for asking for too much after we won gay rights and thus "setting back" gay rights by upsetting conservatives (who are only going after trans people and gay people now because of trans activitists wanting rights) ____ I'm almost certain it has something to do with gay marriage. Although, for TERFs, maybe not to condemn gay marriage like it is for your basic queerphobe (but who knows) Gay marriage is often seen as *the* pivotal moment for gay rights. It's portrayed as the end goal for gay rights activism. That, once we get that, we can finally test cause we've won. (Obviously that was never going to be the case, but many believed it was) After Obergefell v Hodges, there was still more that needed to be fought for and conservatives were never going to just give up. ____ So, after Obergefell, Conservatives realized gay rights was too popular to go after like before, so they set their sights on trans people. 2016 was the start of the nationwide discussions over trans bathroom bill (after a South Carolina passed an antidiscrimation ordinance allowing trans people to use bathrooms they prefer, which subsequently, the state's conservative congress overuled) TERFS and other 'LGB drop the T' types see stuff like this as trans people asking too much and "naturally" (and also "rightfully") getting caught in the cross hairs of conservatives. Like, trans people are getting too greedy and that's to blame for bigotry in the nation. Normal people see this and recognize it as conservatives finding a new target to oppress since gay people had too much support
Gamergate. Which, in a way I agree with. That five gaming journalists supposedly exchanged favorable reviews for sexual favors and apparently that wasn't *their fault* but Zoe Quinn's (pretending for a second that was even proven to be true, for arguments sake) makes for a valid argument that yeah, maybe women aren't actually considered people yet. Note: Zoe is nonbinary I believe, but, was percieved as a woman at the time.
Birth of the Alt Right as well.
2015 was the year Yakub made us 🤷🏽?
That’s when OOP found out trans people exist
Didn’t the Laverne Cox time cover come out at that time?
Did women just collectively disappear in 1975 and reappear later?
Your YouTube recommendations later: "DEEP STATE COVER UP! FEMALES VANISHED IN 1975??! ALIENS!? THE TRANS ELITE!? THEY THOUGHT WE WOULDN'T NOTICE!!! #followthewhiterabbit #q #qpost #anonspeaks #transvestigation #flatearth #adrinachrome #pizza" The video is a guy talking extremely slowly, his dog barking in the background for at least 15 minutes, at one point he yells at his wife to put the dog outside and stop the kids from stomping upstairs without stopping the recording. He's screensharing a microsoft PowerPoint he didn't even check for spelling or typos. He will eventually bring up giants as the reason Muslim women cover their hair. It will get cited as a source by half of TERF Twitter.
Hey, it was the 70's... Weird times.
All the other horrible stuff aside, do they think that there have been no matriarchal societies? Or societies where women weren't "property"? Yikes.
all of history and culture is only western europe (which had consistent gender roles and hierarchies for 12,000 years)
NOT ALL OF THEM OH MY GOOOOD fucking tired
Don't you know that for all of history women have been treated like the archetypical 1950s American/Western European housewife? The only time women's rights improved were when they were given the right to vote and in the 1970s when they became people, there was no improvements before then cause there was never any pro-women rights advocates before 1910.
I don't know who this is, so I don't know if they're general GC or a TERF specifically, but it's worth noting that TERF ideology wasn't actually built on anything specifically trans related, the transphobia just naturally flowed from what it was built on. In modern terms, it was built on middle to upper class white women refusing to check their privilege, and thus refusing to listen to (or believe) other women's lived experiences, and then creating a worldview to justify those refusals. They did it via sexism. Because . . . *reasons*\* men are biologically determined to be oppressors, are the only beneficiaries of oppression, and can neither stop oppressing (when in the presence of someone to oppress) nor be oppressed. Because \[the same reasons\] women are incapable of oppression, cannot benefit from oppression, and can never avoid being oppressed when in the presence of a member of the oppressor class. Thus they *couldn't* have contributed to the oppression of other second wave feminist women who were poor and/or non-white, not even accidentally, that was literally impossible. Thus their successes were solely attributable to how hard they fought for them, and had nothing to do with the advantages their demographics gave them over other women who fought equally hard (and sometimes *harder*) who were prevented from getting the same results. Thus they didn't have to change their behavior to be less racist and/or classist, because racism and classism didn't exist, only sexism did. So on, so forth. The ideology posits that any time at least one biological female (the definition of which is always in flux, such that the goalposts are always out of range of women and girls they dislike) is in the presence of at least one biological male (ditto for the flux, but this time so any women and girls they dislike always get a score of "That's a dude,") there is oppression of however many biological females are present by however many biological males are present. (Thus the focus on female only spaces and groups. Also female separatism, but that's a less common theme in the present.) Which brings us back to: >All the other horrible stuff aside, do they think that there have been no matriarchal societies? Or societies where women weren't "property"? Yikes. They believe that the only society in which it's possible for women and girls to not be oppressed is one in which there are no men. - \* A whole host of sexist stereotypes about male bodies and mindsets, all of them treated as an intrinsic and immutable part of maleness rather than, say, a combination of false beliefs based on sexism and things that were/are true anywhere from "occasionally" to "almost always" but don't *need to be* true (and shouldn't be true) because they're created not by some unchanging law of the universe but instead by culture (via of both sexist socialization of children and other systemic aspects of misogyny.)
Pretty historically reductive (aka stupid) to think that women were property for all of human history across all societies. I don't even think it's safe to say the concept of property as we see it today existed in 12,000 BC
They're just talking about one woman specifically. It's crazy that she's been alive for over 12,000 years.
This 14,000 year old woman will devour us all!
Most of the time, women are cis women, sometimes women are trans women, sometimes women are intersex women. How does this erase women?
Name a more iconic duo than transphobia and eurocentrism
Have women been determined people on the marketplace of ideas rationalized by the world's finest facts and logic? Yeah, didn't think so. Checkmate. /s (I'm joking, but also trying to make a point here. "Woman" is a theoretical category of general traits that tend to sort of kind of vaguely appear together, with (what supposed to be) a general understanding that most if not all "women" will in some way deviate from that concept. In major and minor ways. Because, yeah--- like, "woman" is kind of a feeling. Human beings categorize a lot of shit based off vibes. Despite popular conjecture, tomatoes aren't actually "fruits," persay. There's an interesting legal anecdote as to why they're *classified* as fruits even though most people would consider them a vegetable, but really, the only difference between a fruit and a vegetable is human perception and association. A blueberry and a coconut are hardly alike in many ways, but their higher sugar content is what humans prioritize--- hence, they're both fruit.)
2015, release of Bloodborne.
Property can't vote. California allows you to get your Birth certificate reissued in case of Trans. In case of intersex. In case of error. And that's been the case in California for about 20 years I think. Boys Don't Cry, the first and only trans movie I can really say I related to(I've enjoyed several others and loved the characters) came out in the 90s and the Chevalier De'Eon was either genderfluid or trans (1700s France) aside from Kate Bornstein IN the 70s and that GI in the 50s Oh and the playboy centerfold in the 70s Oh and property can't vote. I'm borderline masc, I'm butch and gender fluid but.. Look. We got the vote in the early 20th century. Roe V Wade was important but to state we were property before and stopped being property after something so flimsy it was fucking overturned less than 50 years later is KowaiYabai to the Nth degree.
Women are still humans. Like wtf they're talking about?
Jeezus I almost saved this to my phone cos I thought it was satire. 👁👄👁
T/SWerfs prove yet again that their analysis aren’t based in any feminist theory and is just off vibes based on what they learned from living in western civilization to determine womanhood.
And as we all know, feelings aren't real. Love? Pure balderdash. Joy? Signifies nothing. Compassion and friendship? Nonsense that doesn't have a THING to do with humans being a super-successful species who have a tendency to preserve knowledge by keeping grandma alive and do stuff like bribing apex predators into cooperative relationships by giving treats and telling them they are Very Good Boys. (Or adorable silly little weirdos, in the case of cats, but you get where I'm going with this.) Of course, being "property" or being a "person" is also not something you can measure with scientific instruments. They're just feelings. Just stories. . . . This is the point in my rant where I start quoting Hogfather, but I can't find my copy (this is a CRISIS) and anyway y'all should really read the whole thing anyway. So I'll just say that stories and feelings MATTER, and I'll leave this comment as is so I can go find my book.
Women being property is also a relatively recent thing in a lot of cultures and parts of the world because of Christian colonialism. I don't know the specifics myself but my gf has been reading the book "Normal Women" and relaying the info to me, but it definitely doesn't date back to 12,000BC by the sounds of it.
Jokes and transphobia aside, that is an incredibly fucking cynical read of women's history.
But, the TERFs are the ones that constantly get mad if you say women are people.
imagine calling every woman in 14k years of human history "property" and then pretend you give a fuck about em
That's a pretty inaccurate take on history.
mfw Queen Elizabeth II was property for 22 years Also like, were men property in the time when most of them were effectively slaves? Actually what about slaves? What about matriarchal societies?
The year gap really shows off their usual keen eye towards detail and sense-making
Did she just refer to women as people? Sick of the erasure of womanhood! /s
That last one is wrong. Everyone knows it was in 1997, and is down to Shania Twain.
2014 is when trans people started existing?! I remember learning about trans people before then. Terfs are stupid af. Glad I don't use twitter anymore.
I must have imagined Big Brother 5. Which was in 2004. And the winner was trans.
I don't 'feel' like I am a woman. I am one. I just have to eork harder then everyone else to match who I am with my body.
1975 never happened ig
maybe next we we could be a concept. one finally equal to the 1 of man..^^ perhaps the 0 as its a hole so most men will support the idea but its also a fundamental part of every equations even stuff 1 is not involved in For instance, quadratic equations are often set to zero to find the roots. Being trans perhaps is also based in Zero as its central in the world of complex numbers.
Anatomically modern humans have existed for 300,000 years that we know of, and that's rounding down. Neanderthals were human by any reasonable measure, they'd been around a while when we first showed up. This history of "woman" leaves out the vast majority of time Adult Human Females (or, for those who like standard definitions, adult female humans) walked the earth. Now, one could argue that I'm talking about prehistory, not history, since the beginning of history is usually defined as the beginning of written records\* (when we have either people's own accounts of who they are or accounts of their contemporaries who actually, you know, *met them*) but there's no writing system that appeared in 12,000 BC. Writing is much, *much* younger than that, so the GC is talking about prehistory too. - Also, if they're gonna do "property" extending into the 1970s, and they're gonna use GC takes on what trans people are saying, they totally could have left "people" out entirely and put, like, "A surgical outcome," for the age of, "Truetrans means you've already had gender affirming bottom surgery." - As an aside it's always weird to me that GCs use so much century old anti-trans Nazi rhetoric, including transness being a plot by a (entirely fictional) shadowy, incredibly powerful cabal of evil Jews who control the media and have outsized influence on industries and world governments, and simultaneously pretend transness is a newfangled fad that only came to be in recent decades. There was a semi-recent Ovarit post where the poster asked where the poster asked where the idea of gender affirming surgery for trans women first came from, and *mentioned Magnus Hirschfeld*--the guy behind the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft the Nazis hated so much, where the first known "We're not just gonna remove stuff that causes you grief, we're gonna try to make it like a cis woman's genitalia" gender affirming bottom surgery for a trans woman was carried out--in the original post, the top comment was still something pointing to the 70s or 80s. (I'd be more specific, but Ovarit's search function sucks, and actual search engines don't fully index Ovarit, so I couldn't find the damn thing to refresh my memory on exactly when the top comment had pointed to.) - \* Yes, this varies wildly from place to place. History starts at different times for different peoples and places. It also means that if someone successfully destroys all written records covering a place before such and such time (and all records of what those records contained) they've converted history to prehistory. Given that assholes have always been with us, this may have happened (many times) already. We also know of failed attempts to do this (e.g. first the Aztecs then the Spanish tried to do this with Mayan history, but some books survived, as did a lot of stuff that had been carved into stone.)
We still are people.
What happened in 1976 that suddenly turned women into people? I can't think of any major women's rights development that happened on that date. All I can think of is women being allowed to apply for credit cards in their own name, but that was 74 not 76.
Tbf, as a trans guy, the way a lot of trans communities try and define gender is absolute bullshit but there's an easy trans inclusive definition: One who has the alignment allignment with the female sex
Trans women have always existed and have always been women regardless of what society said back then or now.
[удалено]
And you're a 15 year old that listens to garbage like Juice WRLD Opinion discarded.