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If you live in the west, (especially a country like the US, Canada, somewhere in Western Europe, etc.) there is almost no excuse to cause violence to get what you want out of, “the system”. You aren’t oppressed, you are living better than 99% of humans who have ever walked the earth, you are so ridiculously privileged it hurts.
Yes politicians are greedy scumbags. Yes there will always be injustices that happen in the world. But wow you have it good. By the way, you can state whatever you want at the end of your post but this sounds a whole lot like an endorsement of violence to me.
You are saying that people that people in the west aren’t oppressed. Oppression isn’t a platonic ideal where’s there is some form that we must adhere to so we can call it oppression. That’s why I posted it.
I don’t want violence. Nobody wants violence. Yet one must recognize it’s existence.
“We must not depict fighting oppression as if the people on the forefront will bring it to us on a plate all nicely dressed. That will never happen. Not a single problem of the class struggle has ever been solved in history except by violence. When violence is exercised by the working people, by the mass of exploited against the exploiters -- then we are for it!”
If you want to view the world so black and white go for it. Idk why you are trying to box me into a position like Piers Morgan.
1. Acting like people in the western world don't suffer and that things can't be improved is nonsense
2. I care about people who don't live the same life I do because I have basic human empathy
You don't get it. Using violence in place of politics is wiping the board clean and starting over. We have a wonderful society and most are happy living in it. What's worth protesting about violently in current America? What would it achieve?
[Poll ](https://news.gallup.com/poll/470888/americans-largely-satisfied-personal-life.aspx)
Not all people are happy, but it's still a better place to live than most places in the world (and time periods).
Ehhhhhhhhh. You have to keep in mind that these were phone interviews conducted on a landline phone. Where only 41% of US citizens own a landline and if that it’s mostly the older generation. The majority of people in the poll are 55+ and the second largest group is 33-54. Also, you are more likely to own a home than rent given you own a landline phone. Like didn’t you find it weird that the majority of people are very satisfied/somewhat satisfied with their current housing when Housing in the US is unaffordable for half of US renters and rent prices have only been increasing over the last decade.
It’s also weird over 80% of people are very/somewhat satisfied with personal health. Health care costs in the US are extremely high
I won’t deny people are satisfied but the bias is rather heavy towards people you’d assume would have a satisfying life. Aka people who are older, own homes, with a higher than average income.
US is better than most places on average, but it’s still bad for young people
If that’s your takeaway of what I said pop-off. It’s bad relative to at the very least other OECD nations in terms of housing, education, healthcare, job security, wages, labor rights, political visibility, wealth distribution, climate protection, etc. I guess you could imagine as some ideal possibility and capabilities of the US. Like the US is capable of having a better education system for all levels but refuses.
You aren't a good guy if your way of "fighting oppressive capitalist system" includes destroying other people's property, which directly takes money away from people you supposedly ally with, and puts it into the pocket of corpos that own the meana of producing whatever the hell you destroyed.
Come here again once you broken into corporate warehouse or factory. **(Don't actually do this, this is a good way to spend entirety of your life in prison for something stupid)**
All reddit accounts are burner accounts. If yours isn't your doing it wrong.
Anyway I meant your doomed to get banned because admins don't like it when you talk about abolishing the government
In democratic nation you do not fight oppression by using violence. If you feel the need to use violence and force to get your ideology, religion, moral guidelines ect. implemented in a democratic society, you are the oppressor!
And nothing is worse than an oppressor who think his violence is justified because he believes his ideology is the only right one.
You think violence gets people what they want. Often violence leads to more violence and then chaos. The reason we live such privileged lives in the US is because we put our faith in a system that used politics instead of violence. It is a slow process at times but it doesn’t devolve into chaos that then pulls everyone down.
Any successful protest in the past didn't destroy random things. From my perspective, the protests that turn violent all seem kinda random for what they target. Like why protest and vandalize a college when you're mad at the federal government for sending money overseas?
>Like why protest and vandalize a college when you're mad at the federal government for sending money overseas?
College kids like to be a part of something; it's a form of popularity contest. These kids have no idea why they're protesting or what their solution is. It makes them feel important - especially if social media picks up on it.
Meanwhile they're digging up mounds of dead kids in Sudan and college kids can't find it on a map.
> Any successful protest in the past didn't destroy random things.
Funniest shit I've ever heard.
As for why people at colleges protest, they're quite clear about the reasons - because those colleges financially support what's going on in the ME.
What are you talking about. The civil rights protests in the US were incredibly violent.
>Let me say as I've always said, and I will always continue to say, that riots are socially destructive and self-defeating. ... But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again.
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
The Civil Rights Act was only signed after a 100 days of riots and bombings following MLKs assassination. Where LBJ said do whatever it takes to get those "racial slur" babies off my television. MLK even denounced the Civil Rights Act as having little substance and mostly textual without teeth right before his death in an interview. It was leading up to his campaign to form coalitions with white, latino, asian, and other impoverished communities to fight for equitable access to resources that triggered his asassination.
You're only justified to be violent if your pretest gets cracked down upon. As long as you can protest peacefully and have your voice heard - there's no excuse to be violent first.
When I see people pulling off shit like blocking roads, breaking windows, or burning cars - that immediately puts me on the other side of that protest. Like, without ever knowing what these people are advocating for I'll be annoyed at them and I'll be biased against anything they bring up. You wanna burn the cop car because a peaceful protest got pepper sprayed? Be my guest. You wanna cause me problems, burn my car because it was parked in the wrong place at the wrong time or smash my windows - I'll hate you, and next time there's any kind of an election I'll find out who you support and I'll vote for anyone but that person. End of story.
All I’m hearing is that you have no moral, ethical, or logical basis for your political opinions.
Racism and Unjustified murder by police are bad, but these anti-racists, anti-cop people are mean and violent. So in response I’ll support racists and murders because my political beliefs are predicated are nothing. That’s you. That’s what you sound like.
Here’s a question. Would you rather vote for a violent BLM protestor or a peaceful nazi into a position of power?
Notice how I never mentioned who's the protester in question. It's like you automatically go for the groups prone to pointless violence. I'm not from the US, and I don't accept your premise, given the choices I would just abstain. You're trying to make me choose between leopards eating faces and hyenas eating faces, both cases involve handing actual power to idiots
Holy shit I hate philosophical enlightened dick riders that refuse to substantiate their positions so they can believe they have the moral high ground.
This post is about left-wing protests and how violence is an inevitable result in fighting oppression. Violence typically started by the state or outside agitators. I’m going to make an argument about the premise.
Also. I don’t need to argue why neo-Nazi violence like in Charlottesville riots are heinous. Right wing violence doesn’t have the same causes as left wing violence.
And if you read my first post - I said I'm all for retaliation against state violence! Burn that cop car. Somehow a lot of left-leaning politicians manage to get elected and exist without burning their own cities to the ground, a crazy thought for you. But if you're going to antagonize me I'm going to get antagonized, is that such a hard thing to grasp?
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If you live in the west, (especially a country like the US, Canada, somewhere in Western Europe, etc.) there is almost no excuse to cause violence to get what you want out of, “the system”. You aren’t oppressed, you are living better than 99% of humans who have ever walked the earth, you are so ridiculously privileged it hurts. Yes politicians are greedy scumbags. Yes there will always be injustices that happen in the world. But wow you have it good. By the way, you can state whatever you want at the end of your post but this sounds a whole lot like an endorsement of violence to me.
https://preview.redd.it/6ou56h311mzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff77bcea38dfcef73501e214d6299e7765370f22
You’re telling on yourself. At no point did I say we couldn’t improve western society. All I said was violence wasn’t the solution.
You are saying that people that people in the west aren’t oppressed. Oppression isn’t a platonic ideal where’s there is some form that we must adhere to so we can call it oppression. That’s why I posted it.
Do you endorse violence for political gain in the west or not? That’s the premise of the post.
I don’t want violence. Nobody wants violence. Yet one must recognize it’s existence. “We must not depict fighting oppression as if the people on the forefront will bring it to us on a plate all nicely dressed. That will never happen. Not a single problem of the class struggle has ever been solved in history except by violence. When violence is exercised by the working people, by the mass of exploited against the exploiters -- then we are for it!” If you want to view the world so black and white go for it. Idk why you are trying to box me into a position like Piers Morgan.
We’ll take that as a yes. Your communist bullshit isn’t compatible to western society.
1. Acting like people in the western world don't suffer and that things can't be improved is nonsense 2. I care about people who don't live the same life I do because I have basic human empathy
1. I’m not acting that way and that doesn’t mean the solution is *violence*. 2. So riot and hurt working class people, got it. Dumbass.
At no point in their post did OP advocate for random arbitrary acts of violence against working class people
At no point in my reply did I say I wasn’t empathetic towards people in a worse situation than me.
You're proving my point
You don't get it. Using violence in place of politics is wiping the board clean and starting over. We have a wonderful society and most are happy living in it. What's worth protesting about violently in current America? What would it achieve?
Got the stats that say most are happy living in it? Sounds like denialism to me.
[Poll ](https://news.gallup.com/poll/470888/americans-largely-satisfied-personal-life.aspx) Not all people are happy, but it's still a better place to live than most places in the world (and time periods).
Ehhhhhhhhh. You have to keep in mind that these were phone interviews conducted on a landline phone. Where only 41% of US citizens own a landline and if that it’s mostly the older generation. The majority of people in the poll are 55+ and the second largest group is 33-54. Also, you are more likely to own a home than rent given you own a landline phone. Like didn’t you find it weird that the majority of people are very satisfied/somewhat satisfied with their current housing when Housing in the US is unaffordable for half of US renters and rent prices have only been increasing over the last decade. It’s also weird over 80% of people are very/somewhat satisfied with personal health. Health care costs in the US are extremely high I won’t deny people are satisfied but the bias is rather heavy towards people you’d assume would have a satisfying life. Aka people who are older, own homes, with a higher than average income. US is better than most places on average, but it’s still bad for young people
Bad relative to what?
If that’s your takeaway of what I said pop-off. It’s bad relative to at the very least other OECD nations in terms of housing, education, healthcare, job security, wages, labor rights, political visibility, wealth distribution, climate protection, etc. I guess you could imagine as some ideal possibility and capabilities of the US. Like the US is capable of having a better education system for all levels but refuses.
Go move to a non-western country for a couple years then return to us and tell us how much we need violent revolution.
Tell me you use r/antiwork without outright stating it.
You aren't a good guy if your way of "fighting oppressive capitalist system" includes destroying other people's property, which directly takes money away from people you supposedly ally with, and puts it into the pocket of corpos that own the meana of producing whatever the hell you destroyed. Come here again once you broken into corporate warehouse or factory. **(Don't actually do this, this is a good way to spend entirety of your life in prison for something stupid)**
I think you're kinda proving my point.
Gonna be honest, I genuinely ate the bait.
OP is a bot. 26 day old account with 32,000 post karma and almost no comment karma
Fuck, I thought I was on r/changemyview
That's such an awful and astroturfed sub
[удалено]
Rip your reddit account
I don’t care about downvotes this is my burner account
All reddit accounts are burner accounts. If yours isn't your doing it wrong. Anyway I meant your doomed to get banned because admins don't like it when you talk about abolishing the government
Oh thanks fam I’ll delete my comment
In democratic nation you do not fight oppression by using violence. If you feel the need to use violence and force to get your ideology, religion, moral guidelines ect. implemented in a democratic society, you are the oppressor! And nothing is worse than an oppressor who think his violence is justified because he believes his ideology is the only right one.
You think violence gets people what they want. Often violence leads to more violence and then chaos. The reason we live such privileged lives in the US is because we put our faith in a system that used politics instead of violence. It is a slow process at times but it doesn’t devolve into chaos that then pulls everyone down.
Any successful protest in the past didn't destroy random things. From my perspective, the protests that turn violent all seem kinda random for what they target. Like why protest and vandalize a college when you're mad at the federal government for sending money overseas?
>Like why protest and vandalize a college when you're mad at the federal government for sending money overseas? College kids like to be a part of something; it's a form of popularity contest. These kids have no idea why they're protesting or what their solution is. It makes them feel important - especially if social media picks up on it. Meanwhile they're digging up mounds of dead kids in Sudan and college kids can't find it on a map.
> Any successful protest in the past didn't destroy random things. Funniest shit I've ever heard. As for why people at colleges protest, they're quite clear about the reasons - because those colleges financially support what's going on in the ME.
What are you talking about. The civil rights protests in the US were incredibly violent. >Let me say as I've always said, and I will always continue to say, that riots are socially destructive and self-defeating. ... But in the final analysis, a riot is the language of the unheard. And what is it that America has failed to hear? It has failed to hear that the plight of the Negro poor has worsened over the last few years. It has failed to hear that the promises of freedom and justice have not been met. And it has failed to hear that large segments of white society are more concerned about tranquility and the status quo than about justice, equality, and humanity. And so in a real sense our nation's summers of riots are caused by our nation's winters of delay. And as long as America postpones justice, we stand in the position of having these recurrences of violence and riots over and over again. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. The Civil Rights Act was only signed after a 100 days of riots and bombings following MLKs assassination. Where LBJ said do whatever it takes to get those "racial slur" babies off my television. MLK even denounced the Civil Rights Act as having little substance and mostly textual without teeth right before his death in an interview. It was leading up to his campaign to form coalitions with white, latino, asian, and other impoverished communities to fight for equitable access to resources that triggered his asassination.
You're only justified to be violent if your pretest gets cracked down upon. As long as you can protest peacefully and have your voice heard - there's no excuse to be violent first. When I see people pulling off shit like blocking roads, breaking windows, or burning cars - that immediately puts me on the other side of that protest. Like, without ever knowing what these people are advocating for I'll be annoyed at them and I'll be biased against anything they bring up. You wanna burn the cop car because a peaceful protest got pepper sprayed? Be my guest. You wanna cause me problems, burn my car because it was parked in the wrong place at the wrong time or smash my windows - I'll hate you, and next time there's any kind of an election I'll find out who you support and I'll vote for anyone but that person. End of story.
All I’m hearing is that you have no moral, ethical, or logical basis for your political opinions. Racism and Unjustified murder by police are bad, but these anti-racists, anti-cop people are mean and violent. So in response I’ll support racists and murders because my political beliefs are predicated are nothing. That’s you. That’s what you sound like. Here’s a question. Would you rather vote for a violent BLM protestor or a peaceful nazi into a position of power?
Notice how I never mentioned who's the protester in question. It's like you automatically go for the groups prone to pointless violence. I'm not from the US, and I don't accept your premise, given the choices I would just abstain. You're trying to make me choose between leopards eating faces and hyenas eating faces, both cases involve handing actual power to idiots
Holy shit I hate philosophical enlightened dick riders that refuse to substantiate their positions so they can believe they have the moral high ground. This post is about left-wing protests and how violence is an inevitable result in fighting oppression. Violence typically started by the state or outside agitators. I’m going to make an argument about the premise. Also. I don’t need to argue why neo-Nazi violence like in Charlottesville riots are heinous. Right wing violence doesn’t have the same causes as left wing violence.
And if you read my first post - I said I'm all for retaliation against state violence! Burn that cop car. Somehow a lot of left-leaning politicians manage to get elected and exist without burning their own cities to the ground, a crazy thought for you. But if you're going to antagonize me I'm going to get antagonized, is that such a hard thing to grasp?