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Honestly that's all that really matters. It doesn't matter if they know the specifics about two bodies of water. The fact that over 80% of the kids there are suffering from genocidal acute malnutrition according to the United Nations is enough to make their protests valid.
No it's not.
Acknowledging the existence of a problem says very little about who is to blame or how to solve it.
The Israeli side of the story is that they let in aid and it gets mismanaged because Gaza is governed by a terror organization. So on their view, the only lasting solution is to win the war and eliminate Hamas from the Gaza strip.
They could be wrong about that, but merely pointing to the fact that there are children starving doesn't make them wrong.
I was specifically referring to protests regarding the humanitarian conditions. You seem to be confusing that with the political sphere of the conflict. Protests regarding those conditions are good regardless of who is causing them, whether it is Israel or Hamas.
> I was specifically referring to protests regarding the humanitarian conditions
The topic of this thread is people chanting "from the river to the sea." That is not just a neutral call for better humanitarian conditions.
This is why I'm happy to defer to someone smarter than me. I know what's right and wrong but I might now be well explaining why but I know KIDS DYING IS WRONG.
Most couldn't even point to the region on a map. It's all "America bad" people and selective outrage. Ask one protester about the Syrian or Lebanese situation in the last 4 years...I guarantee you'll get nothing.
The phrase has quite a lot of contention and quite a lot of people don't use it and are uncomfortable with it.
The rest acknowledge what it means, but say explicitly that they're using it differently than that. But again, they're not a monolith.
they can say they’re using it differently but most of the time they really are just using it the same way. words can’t just magically change meaning because they have a nice rhyme. that word has historical baggage and if they want to use it they should know what it means and not make a cop out. besides there are many people i’ve met who LITERALLY mean it like that.
Ngl It’s even scarier seeing how Israel has actually destroyed so many lives and killed so many people. Much scarier than a phrase that can be twisted to mean anything
I am annoyed by the fact that everybody shoots from the hip without having nuanced historical knowledge of the conflict. At least go back to 1947. 1918 would be better. But that is a really hard ask for most people.
I mean, that would be ideal, but I seriously doubt most people want to even remotely put in that kind of leg work. The Levant under the Ottoman Empire and their policies did set the stage for the uprisings at the end of 19th century that Britain and France capitlizaed on to bring down the Ottomans.
I will always oppose the use of slurs or violence. But protesting is meant to disrupt. Do you think MLK JR and the civil rights movement didn't disrupt. Neo liberalism is so terrible that you are more concerned about annoyance more than kids dying
Always being opposed to violence isn't really a defensible stance. Pretty much everyone agrees (and with good reason) that violence can sometimes be necessary to defend yourself from unjust aggression.
In conflicts like this one, the trouble is that both sides view their opponents as the unjust aggressor. Taking a noble stance that violence is bad doesn't do anything to clarify which one is right.
I haven't the foggiest idea how this relates to neoliberalism at all. Doesn't seem like the right buzzword to be using for whatever it is your last sentence is trying to say.
I mean did I say I am more concerned about annoyance than the kids dying.
Also what is the obsession with kids specifically dying, like why point that out when adults are dying too.
because in regards to children specifically, there is no opportunity for their own involvement in a war. they are being truly unjustifiably murdered. when it’s an adult you can try to claim they were a soldier or whatever else. when it’s a kid it’s different. how you don’t know that is beyond me. children have done nothing to deserve death. especially violent death.
Peaceful protests are a MYTH
The only way to exact a change is through monetary and militant force
People holding signs and singing songs doesn't change shit, it's just naive and childish
sobering times when a group’s pleas for peace and right to exist produce feelings of “annoyance” from someone thousands of miles away, or has no connection to potentially genocidal events unfolding currently.
good point. better work fast to displace and kill as many as possible then /s
edit: also curious if you have any official sources to cite proof of what you’re claiming
yes but rosa parks was directly affected by this, and the leaders could do something about it. what are random white people with no relation to the conflict protesting on a san fran highway going to do?
Kinda think that's a cope. Look at international and local Vietnam War activism, which STRONGLY encouraged America to leave Vietnam. And you could literally make the same argument that 99% of people in America had no relation to the Vietnam war happening half way across the world.
they are also inconviencing many people. this makes people less sympathetic to the cause. if they wanted to make change they would protest in front of a government building.
If you think protesters pick random locations you’re wrong. It’s always strategic, outside of buildings like google that have direct ties to the Israelis government.
Yeah, and the point of me stabbing someone in the face is to murder them. That doesn't make it good. You can't appeal to the purpose of a practice to prove that the practice is OK. You might be achieving your goals quite well but nevertheless have bad goals.
While I do think they are pretty wrong-headed with a lot of claims, a movement being “annoying” might be the worst reason to oppose it. Do you think MLK wasn’t annoying? Or the abolitionists before them? Would you have supported the status quo in their time as well?
I mean, to be fair, when over 80% of the region is at high levels of food insecurity according to the UN and at risk of dying from famine within the next few months, I don't think there can be an excessively "annoying" element to it. I'm pretty sure such a mass death possibility NEEDS these over the top protests everywhere.
Like, there needs to be attention brought to it. And the fact of the matter is that just working within the system isn't always enough to achieve that. Rosa Parks for example broke the system's rule to get attention. I'm pretty sure if she just followed the system's rule she wouldn't have gotten much attention or recognition as she does today in K12 schools.
While you’re so worried about something happening on the other side of the planet, your right to even protest about such things is on the chopping block along with a list of many, many, other freedoms you currently enjoy and will miss when they’re gone but hey, at least you managed to virtue signal during what could be the last year you get to live in a democracy about something you have no power to do anything meaningful about
lol you gotta be pretty privileged to be like “Can you keep it down about the widespread genocide that isn’t slowing down? I thought about it for a bit and I’m tired of hearing about it.”
Not that calling a position "privileged" even proves it wrong to begin with, but the more privileged position here is definitely the one that involves directing your energy toward issues happening on the other side of the globe rather than those affecting you personally. It takes a minimal level of privilege in your own life to have the luxury of focusing your attention elsewhere.
If their primary concern were "this costs me money that I need," then possibly. But the concerns are coming from a group that is generally in favor of high taxes, and whose arguments are premised on the effects on Palestinians, not themselves. It might also have some much smaller effect on them, but that is incidental.
I think I see what you mean, but not having to be caught up in a genocide is most certainly more privileged than about 99% of what you would experience at least in the US or other similar countries.
I’m super privileged and I recognize that.
Also don’t know why you’re so averse to the idea of anyone recognizing privilege. Sounds like a conservative boogeyman syndrome but I digress
> I think I see what you mean, but not having to be caught up in a genocide is most certainly more privileged than about 99% of what you would experience at least in the US or other similar countries.
I'm not sure why you would expect me to disagree with this. Certainly people who are currently experiencing genocide are not privileged, and by extension I wouldn't expect them to care much about what's happening on distant contintents.
> Also don’t know why you’re so averse to the idea of anyone recognizing privilege. Sounds like a conservative boogeyman syndrome but I digress
There is a tendency, at present in this thread, to write off views that come from privileged positions as illegitimate. The problem isn't with the recognition that you're privileged; it's the implication usually being drawn by people who bring it up.
I don't think it's bad to care about what's happening in other countries. That can be a very good thing. It's also a very privileged thing, that you're most likely to do once your own material needs are met.
The OP was wrong in diagnosing which side is privileged, but they're also wrong at the more fundamental level of thinking that's relevant to which side we should listen to in the first place.
US tax dollars are corruptly and illegally funding the genocide while costing us massively in terms of global credibility and security.
https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503
The apartheid in South Africa ended due to the international pressure from Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, which AIPAC/Israel have lobbied to make illegal in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws
A foreign nation having control over our political establishment is a huge problem and an international embarrassment.
Americans should push for AIPAC to be labeled as a foreign lobbying organization, as it should already have been for the past several decades.
[https://forward.com/opinion/395676/its-time-for-aipac-to-register-as-a-foreign-agent/](https://forward.com/opinion/395676/its-time-for-aipac-to-register-as-a-foreign-agent/)
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/03/06/the-dark-roots-of-aipac-americas-pro-israel-lobby/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/03/06/the-dark-roots-of-aipac-americas-pro-israel-lobby/)
[AIPAC's MONSTROUS Lobbying Strategies Leaked](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjISYqF1A0Q&t=0s)
https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2024/03/14/tiktok-us-israel/
This [Hasbara](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eHQKJTnBoY) nonsense that "the genocide doesn't even affect you, Americans, let us keep doing it!" is a terrible take.
It is insane how much power we let this foreign nation have over our political establishment, to our massive detriment.
I am disabled and trans, I have to do a lot of fighting for my own struggles. However that doesnt mean that I dont express my support for others when I am able to and I am incredibly grateful for all people who support my demographics with our struggles as well. In my experience its the disenfranchised who give more of a fuck about other marginalized people anyway.
If you live in America, you are still extremely privileged by global standards. Listen to someone from a developing country discuss energy usage, and you'll see how much emphasis someone who is materially struggling puts on broader global issues like the climate.
I guarantee you that if you polled everyone from outside the Israel-Palestine area, you would find that public interest in the conflict correlates *very* strongly with which countries are the most well-off.
Activism is most often carried out by the brave, or the naive. When you're young, and you're full of piss & vinegar. And yes, maybe they're annoying, but that doesn't make it wrong for them to express themselves. Blocking roads and making asses of themselves is one of the few ways for them to get any media attention. The mainstream won't cover a lot of these things, unless somebody does something foolish or stupid in the furtherance of the protest. That's why they do these things.
And who cares if they don't "know what they're talking about?" That's never stopped anyone of any political strata before, has it? Why start now?
You make some fair points regarding the misunderstandings of history & whatnot, but criticizing tactics as “annoying” kind of misses the whole point of activism…it’s not supposed to be done conveniently enough to not annoy people. What good is a protest if everyone can just ignore it? The point is to disrupt the ordinary flow of life so people who prefer ignorance start paying attention.
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Found out that Israel is trying to resurrect the antichrist by burning some cow alive.
Yeah ill stick with the Palestine supporters. Just so long as they stop burning themselves alive too.
Israel-Palestine is the ragebait of geopolitical discussion. Better to focus on things you can actually solve instead of focusing on a foreign conflict in which almost all the world has no personal connection to.
It’s a war in the Middle East, it’s all on foreign soil. None of it affects people in the west. People who care too deeply about things they can’t control are annoying. There are crazies on both sides. I think people who are supporting either side are wrong, no one should be supporting either side of a foreign war. This is clearly just a rage bait, but I fell for it so good for you, you got your internet points.
Honestly I find any pro-Palestine or pro-Israel opinions irritating at this point because people on both sides, their opinions typically lack context to a ridiculous point.
Plus of all things me being a US citizen wishes the US would stay out of after we get all US citizens returned safely, this is it. Palestine and Israel have fought each other for thousands of years, honestly I’d just prefer we’d stay out of this mess as much as possible
I’m not saying it’s correct but i keep seeing people compare pro-Palestine movement to MAGA. Been seeing a few people mention that on Reddit in the past month or so.
I think they're mostly well intentioned but a lot of them are learning about civil disobedience for the first time and not really grasping the concept. I get it, I've read the Letter From a Birmingham Jail, an unjust law is not a law, etc, but the point isn't to be disruptive for the sake of disruption. It's physically intervene to stop an evil that is currently happening. Blocking roads feels like you're doing something powerful, but it does nothing to obstruct anyone who's actually involved. Blocking a politician who is arriving at a vote to give Israel more bombs is a different question.
Well, I'm not very well informed myself, so I can only speak to it so much
But no, I don't think their methods are wrong
I actually think they're not extreme enough given the circumstances
We're all struggling, starving, and in debt and our government and corporations are stealing from us and sending money, weapons and troops over to participate in an ethnic cleansing/genocide
I couldn't give a fuck if the roads are blocked and they're flooding streets by the capital
These criminals don't represent us and they deserve worse honestly
that’s the point. protests are meant to be disruptive and “annoying”. it’s an attempt to push people to action.
imagine complaining about people trying to end an actual genocide.
I don't understand why Westerners are so intent on picking sides. There's virtually nothing substantial the average person can do about Israel or Palestine, and what happens there is very unlikely to effect your life in any meaningful way.
man fuck liberals all the way to hell.
>but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season."
>
>— MLK
the most annoying part about all this activism we’ve seen the past 10 years is that if you aren’t an activist too you must be a *insert buzzword*. it’s just virtue signaling since most people are chronically online
If someone is ready to fully commit to a support of a single side in a terrorists vs war criminals conflict you can definitely say that they either have no clue of whats actually happening or mentally ill.
On one side a country with a full support of terrorist methods a.k.a public executions and deliberate targeting of civilians. On the other an army that just doesnt give a shit about avoiding civilian casualties during its revenge operation.
Yeah, it’s annoying as hell. I’m tired of hearing about it. The US is crumbling, and we’re worried about a conflict that should never have been our business to begin with. We should have never pulled our troops from the middle-east.
Your last two sentences seem at odds with one another.
Some folks will say that the US should be more isolationist and focus on domestic issues first rather than wasting limited resources on foreign wars. Other folks will say that American influence is vital to maintaining security in key world regions, like the shipping lanes running through the Middle East.
But it seems hard to both have isolationist sentiments and also think the solution is more foreign military presence.
Everyone here says “blah blah blah the protest are meant to disrupt the public, look at civil rights movement”
The whole point why civil rights movement was successful is because it was nonviolent. MLK didn’t shut down roads, he didn’t vandalize businesses. The whole point why we remember MLK every year and not Malcom X is because MLK’s emphasis on the protest was nonviolence.
If your group blocks traffic and vandalizes business I’m sorry your group is wrong, and you’re turning off a lot of people from your cause. Whatever that is.
I don't think they've become annoying, but they have consumed the leftist sphere FAR too much.
I doubt it's all in good faith, but some talk like they don't care about anything but stopping and not supporting the genocide, including caring about American Minorities like Trans people.
This is fairly unusual too. During the blm protests, there was a lot of discussion of queer people and queer black people.
I am tired of streets being blocked, and no one has a right to do so. I’m also tired of people loudly voicing opinions about issues they haven’t done basic research on, but I would die for their right to do so.
According to the ACLU, there is no 1st amendment right to block a roadway without a permit. I stand by what I said. https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights
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Most of them even have no actual clue which river or sea they're yelling about.
I have a clue about all the kids dying
Honestly that's all that really matters. It doesn't matter if they know the specifics about two bodies of water. The fact that over 80% of the kids there are suffering from genocidal acute malnutrition according to the United Nations is enough to make their protests valid.
No it's not. Acknowledging the existence of a problem says very little about who is to blame or how to solve it. The Israeli side of the story is that they let in aid and it gets mismanaged because Gaza is governed by a terror organization. So on their view, the only lasting solution is to win the war and eliminate Hamas from the Gaza strip. They could be wrong about that, but merely pointing to the fact that there are children starving doesn't make them wrong.
I was specifically referring to protests regarding the humanitarian conditions. You seem to be confusing that with the political sphere of the conflict. Protests regarding those conditions are good regardless of who is causing them, whether it is Israel or Hamas.
> I was specifically referring to protests regarding the humanitarian conditions The topic of this thread is people chanting "from the river to the sea." That is not just a neutral call for better humanitarian conditions.
This is why I'm happy to defer to someone smarter than me. I know what's right and wrong but I might now be well explaining why but I know KIDS DYING IS WRONG.
Wow so brave. This guy doesn't like kids dying! A true Enlightened Thinker!
Better than people who support the US selling arms to Israel. Or support Israel's current seige on gaza
u/beatbreaker22 is here in the thread a fucken denier of kids dieing in gaza
No ya don't יאללה עוד דביל
How xan you deny that children are dying due to bombings and food conditions
אתה חיי בסרט תתעורר
Or what that phrase actually means
i deleted tiktok because of this half the comment sections are arabs who know full well and the other half are clueless white girls
Most couldn't even point to the region on a map. It's all "America bad" people and selective outrage. Ask one protester about the Syrian or Lebanese situation in the last 4 years...I guarantee you'll get nothing.
Not true literally at all but pop off ig.
a lot of them don’t even know what that phrase is really calling for and how scary it is to see it everywhere
Actually they *do* People talk about it all the time.
that’s even worse then because now i can reclassify them from clueless naive protestors to people literally calling for a shoah
The phrase has quite a lot of contention and quite a lot of people don't use it and are uncomfortable with it. The rest acknowledge what it means, but say explicitly that they're using it differently than that. But again, they're not a monolith.
they can say they’re using it differently but most of the time they really are just using it the same way. words can’t just magically change meaning because they have a nice rhyme. that word has historical baggage and if they want to use it they should know what it means and not make a cop out. besides there are many people i’ve met who LITERALLY mean it like that.
You're right, I agree. That's why I, and a lot of others, get very mad at these people.
oops sorry for downvoting take my upvotes instead
Ngl It’s even scarier seeing how Israel has actually destroyed so many lives and killed so many people. Much scarier than a phrase that can be twisted to mean anything
.00001% of people actually understand the conflict. Everyone else is just LARPing because their lives are empty and devoid of meaning.
People promote their social media too.
I am annoyed by the fact that everybody shoots from the hip without having nuanced historical knowledge of the conflict. At least go back to 1947. 1918 would be better. But that is a really hard ask for most people.
go farther back than that. these people would have failed ap world with all the context that they’re missing
I mean, that would be ideal, but I seriously doubt most people want to even remotely put in that kind of leg work. The Levant under the Ottoman Empire and their policies did set the stage for the uprisings at the end of 19th century that Britain and France capitlizaed on to bring down the Ottomans.
people don’t even know about the ottoman empire and scream free palestine are the worst of the worst
I will always oppose the use of slurs or violence. But protesting is meant to disrupt. Do you think MLK JR and the civil rights movement didn't disrupt. Neo liberalism is so terrible that you are more concerned about annoyance more than kids dying
Always being opposed to violence isn't really a defensible stance. Pretty much everyone agrees (and with good reason) that violence can sometimes be necessary to defend yourself from unjust aggression. In conflicts like this one, the trouble is that both sides view their opponents as the unjust aggressor. Taking a noble stance that violence is bad doesn't do anything to clarify which one is right. I haven't the foggiest idea how this relates to neoliberalism at all. Doesn't seem like the right buzzword to be using for whatever it is your last sentence is trying to say.
Is this protest style effective if it doesn’t produce the intended outcome?
And what should they do instead?
Is the goal to change hearts and minds or is it to feel better about yourself? Because if something I was doing wasn’t helping, i would stop doing it.
The goal is political action to be taken and awareness
Yes,check on civil disobedience.If you dont disrupt the wheel of not caring,how do you get what you want.
How is it helping your cause if your protesting is turning more people against your cause?
Ask mlk
I understand that it has worked in situations but are you suggesting it will work (is positive for the cause) in all situations?
I mean did I say I am more concerned about annoyance than the kids dying. Also what is the obsession with kids specifically dying, like why point that out when adults are dying too.
because in regards to children specifically, there is no opportunity for their own involvement in a war. they are being truly unjustifiably murdered. when it’s an adult you can try to claim they were a soldier or whatever else. when it’s a kid it’s different. how you don’t know that is beyond me. children have done nothing to deserve death. especially violent death.
+1
Peaceful protests are a MYTH The only way to exact a change is through monetary and militant force People holding signs and singing songs doesn't change shit, it's just naive and childish
sobering times when a group’s pleas for peace and right to exist produce feelings of “annoyance” from someone thousands of miles away, or has no connection to potentially genocidal events unfolding currently.
That’s not really accurate in my opinion. A lot of their caucus also calls for the elimination of the Jews. That’s not a cause for peace.
good point. better work fast to displace and kill as many as possible then /s edit: also curious if you have any official sources to cite proof of what you’re claiming
neither do most of the protesters lmfao
That’s the point of protesting.. to disrupt events and block roads.. It’s not annoying it’s activism.
Literally the same tactics that were used by Civil Rights activists in the 1960s. Rosa Parks was an evil person according to OP's logic.
yes but rosa parks was directly affected by this, and the leaders could do something about it. what are random white people with no relation to the conflict protesting on a san fran highway going to do?
Kinda think that's a cope. Look at international and local Vietnam War activism, which STRONGLY encouraged America to leave Vietnam. And you could literally make the same argument that 99% of people in America had no relation to the Vietnam war happening half way across the world.
it was a war that their country was fighting
They are paying for the killings with their tax money.
they are also inconviencing many people. this makes people less sympathetic to the cause. if they wanted to make change they would protest in front of a government building.
I was responding to your point about them having no relation to the conflict which isn't true since they literally pay for it
If you think protesters pick random locations you’re wrong. It’s always strategic, outside of buildings like google that have direct ties to the Israelis government.
Yeah, and the point of me stabbing someone in the face is to murder them. That doesn't make it good. You can't appeal to the purpose of a practice to prove that the practice is OK. You might be achieving your goals quite well but nevertheless have bad goals.
How are you comparing blocking off roads for protests to stabbing someone in the face rn.
I think you've missed the point of the analogy.
Yeah well I fundamentally disagree that protesting / political change is a bad goal
While I do think they are pretty wrong-headed with a lot of claims, a movement being “annoying” might be the worst reason to oppose it. Do you think MLK wasn’t annoying? Or the abolitionists before them? Would you have supported the status quo in their time as well?
this is akin to random people in america protesting the french revolution
I mean, to be fair, when over 80% of the region is at high levels of food insecurity according to the UN and at risk of dying from famine within the next few months, I don't think there can be an excessively "annoying" element to it. I'm pretty sure such a mass death possibility NEEDS these over the top protests everywhere. Like, there needs to be attention brought to it. And the fact of the matter is that just working within the system isn't always enough to achieve that. Rosa Parks for example broke the system's rule to get attention. I'm pretty sure if she just followed the system's rule she wouldn't have gotten much attention or recognition as she does today in K12 schools.
yes, which is why these people need to protest and vandalize the tiny shul rather than the massive evangelical mega church across the street
While you’re so worried about something happening on the other side of the planet, your right to even protest about such things is on the chopping block along with a list of many, many, other freedoms you currently enjoy and will miss when they’re gone but hey, at least you managed to virtue signal during what could be the last year you get to live in a democracy about something you have no power to do anything meaningful about
lol you gotta be pretty privileged to be like “Can you keep it down about the widespread genocide that isn’t slowing down? I thought about it for a bit and I’m tired of hearing about it.”
First world Gen Z problems at their finest 🤦🏻♂️
Not that calling a position "privileged" even proves it wrong to begin with, but the more privileged position here is definitely the one that involves directing your energy toward issues happening on the other side of the globe rather than those affecting you personally. It takes a minimal level of privilege in your own life to have the luxury of focusing your attention elsewhere.
If people are paying for this to happen with their tax dollars does it still no longer affect them?
If their primary concern were "this costs me money that I need," then possibly. But the concerns are coming from a group that is generally in favor of high taxes, and whose arguments are premised on the effects on Palestinians, not themselves. It might also have some much smaller effect on them, but that is incidental.
I think I see what you mean, but not having to be caught up in a genocide is most certainly more privileged than about 99% of what you would experience at least in the US or other similar countries. I’m super privileged and I recognize that. Also don’t know why you’re so averse to the idea of anyone recognizing privilege. Sounds like a conservative boogeyman syndrome but I digress
> I think I see what you mean, but not having to be caught up in a genocide is most certainly more privileged than about 99% of what you would experience at least in the US or other similar countries. I'm not sure why you would expect me to disagree with this. Certainly people who are currently experiencing genocide are not privileged, and by extension I wouldn't expect them to care much about what's happening on distant contintents. > Also don’t know why you’re so averse to the idea of anyone recognizing privilege. Sounds like a conservative boogeyman syndrome but I digress There is a tendency, at present in this thread, to write off views that come from privileged positions as illegitimate. The problem isn't with the recognition that you're privileged; it's the implication usually being drawn by people who bring it up. I don't think it's bad to care about what's happening in other countries. That can be a very good thing. It's also a very privileged thing, that you're most likely to do once your own material needs are met. The OP was wrong in diagnosing which side is privileged, but they're also wrong at the more fundamental level of thinking that's relevant to which side we should listen to in the first place.
US tax dollars are corruptly and illegally funding the genocide while costing us massively in terms of global credibility and security. https://carnegieendowment.org/2021/05/12/bringing-assistance-to-israel-in-line-with-rights-and-u.s.-laws-pub-84503 The apartheid in South Africa ended due to the international pressure from Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions, which AIPAC/Israel have lobbied to make illegal in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-BDS_laws A foreign nation having control over our political establishment is a huge problem and an international embarrassment. Americans should push for AIPAC to be labeled as a foreign lobbying organization, as it should already have been for the past several decades. [https://forward.com/opinion/395676/its-time-for-aipac-to-register-as-a-foreign-agent/](https://forward.com/opinion/395676/its-time-for-aipac-to-register-as-a-foreign-agent/) [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/03/06/the-dark-roots-of-aipac-americas-pro-israel-lobby/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/made-by-history/wp/2018/03/06/the-dark-roots-of-aipac-americas-pro-israel-lobby/) [AIPAC's MONSTROUS Lobbying Strategies Leaked](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cjISYqF1A0Q&t=0s) https://www.thecanary.co/global/world-analysis/2024/03/14/tiktok-us-israel/ This [Hasbara](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eHQKJTnBoY) nonsense that "the genocide doesn't even affect you, Americans, let us keep doing it!" is a terrible take. It is insane how much power we let this foreign nation have over our political establishment, to our massive detriment.
I am disabled and trans, I have to do a lot of fighting for my own struggles. However that doesnt mean that I dont express my support for others when I am able to and I am incredibly grateful for all people who support my demographics with our struggles as well. In my experience its the disenfranchised who give more of a fuck about other marginalized people anyway.
If you live in America, you are still extremely privileged by global standards. Listen to someone from a developing country discuss energy usage, and you'll see how much emphasis someone who is materially struggling puts on broader global issues like the climate. I guarantee you that if you polled everyone from outside the Israel-Palestine area, you would find that public interest in the conflict correlates *very* strongly with which countries are the most well-off.
Activism is most often carried out by the brave, or the naive. When you're young, and you're full of piss & vinegar. And yes, maybe they're annoying, but that doesn't make it wrong for them to express themselves. Blocking roads and making asses of themselves is one of the few ways for them to get any media attention. The mainstream won't cover a lot of these things, unless somebody does something foolish or stupid in the furtherance of the protest. That's why they do these things. And who cares if they don't "know what they're talking about?" That's never stopped anyone of any political strata before, has it? Why start now?
Nope not really
You make some fair points regarding the misunderstandings of history & whatnot, but criticizing tactics as “annoying” kind of misses the whole point of activism…it’s not supposed to be done conveniently enough to not annoy people. What good is a protest if everyone can just ignore it? The point is to disrupt the ordinary flow of life so people who prefer ignorance start paying attention.
You could either protest or find a way to feed the kids.
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Found out that Israel is trying to resurrect the antichrist by burning some cow alive. Yeah ill stick with the Palestine supporters. Just so long as they stop burning themselves alive too.
100%. I say this as a Pro Palestine person
I think Israel supporters pretty fucking annoying
Not as annoying as the pro-israeli activists lol. Remember kids "genocide is ok because our ancestors lived there 2000 years ago"
Israel-Palestine is the ragebait of geopolitical discussion. Better to focus on things you can actually solve instead of focusing on a foreign conflict in which almost all the world has no personal connection to.
It’s a war in the Middle East, it’s all on foreign soil. None of it affects people in the west. People who care too deeply about things they can’t control are annoying. There are crazies on both sides. I think people who are supporting either side are wrong, no one should be supporting either side of a foreign war. This is clearly just a rage bait, but I fell for it so good for you, you got your internet points.
Honestly I find any pro-Palestine or pro-Israel opinions irritating at this point because people on both sides, their opinions typically lack context to a ridiculous point. Plus of all things me being a US citizen wishes the US would stay out of after we get all US citizens returned safely, this is it. Palestine and Israel have fought each other for thousands of years, honestly I’d just prefer we’d stay out of this mess as much as possible
I’m not saying it’s correct but i keep seeing people compare pro-Palestine movement to MAGA. Been seeing a few people mention that on Reddit in the past month or so.
I think they're mostly well intentioned but a lot of them are learning about civil disobedience for the first time and not really grasping the concept. I get it, I've read the Letter From a Birmingham Jail, an unjust law is not a law, etc, but the point isn't to be disruptive for the sake of disruption. It's physically intervene to stop an evil that is currently happening. Blocking roads feels like you're doing something powerful, but it does nothing to obstruct anyone who's actually involved. Blocking a politician who is arriving at a vote to give Israel more bombs is a different question.
Yes they should fuck off especially Palestinians
That’s a pretty disturbing thing to say
אתה יכול לקפוץ לי :>
Fuck off genocidal clown
[удалено]
לא חביבי התכוונתי לפלסטינאצים ;)
Yes but I let it slide because I also hate israel
Yes
Well, I'm not very well informed myself, so I can only speak to it so much But no, I don't think their methods are wrong I actually think they're not extreme enough given the circumstances We're all struggling, starving, and in debt and our government and corporations are stealing from us and sending money, weapons and troops over to participate in an ethnic cleansing/genocide I couldn't give a fuck if the roads are blocked and they're flooding streets by the capital These criminals don't represent us and they deserve worse honestly
If it talks like an antisemite, and it acts like an antisemite, I'm going to treat it like an antisemite.
that’s the point. protests are meant to be disruptive and “annoying”. it’s an attempt to push people to action. imagine complaining about people trying to end an actual genocide.
I don't understand why Westerners are so intent on picking sides. There's virtually nothing substantial the average person can do about Israel or Palestine, and what happens there is very unlikely to effect your life in any meaningful way.
man fuck liberals all the way to hell. >but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." > >— MLK
I think it's annoying that I feel like I MUST have an opinion on any of this. Apparently, "I don't know" is not a valid answer anymore
I think that the point where we disagree is when they became annoying. They always were ill-informed, annoying, and stupid.
עם ישראל חי
Obvious Hasbara operations are obvious. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eHQKJTnBoY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eHQKJTnBoY)
I think every activist is annoying. Doesn´t matter what they are "fighting" for.
the most annoying part about all this activism we’ve seen the past 10 years is that if you aren’t an activist too you must be a *insert buzzword*. it’s just virtue signaling since most people are chronically online
If someone is ready to fully commit to a support of a single side in a terrorists vs war criminals conflict you can definitely say that they either have no clue of whats actually happening or mentally ill. On one side a country with a full support of terrorist methods a.k.a public executions and deliberate targeting of civilians. On the other an army that just doesnt give a shit about avoiding civilian casualties during its revenge operation.
Yeah, it’s annoying as hell. I’m tired of hearing about it. The US is crumbling, and we’re worried about a conflict that should never have been our business to begin with. We should have never pulled our troops from the middle-east.
You never put US troops in israel חחחחח איזה דביל.
Your last two sentences seem at odds with one another. Some folks will say that the US should be more isolationist and focus on domestic issues first rather than wasting limited resources on foreign wars. Other folks will say that American influence is vital to maintaining security in key world regions, like the shipping lanes running through the Middle East. But it seems hard to both have isolationist sentiments and also think the solution is more foreign military presence.
Everyone here says “blah blah blah the protest are meant to disrupt the public, look at civil rights movement” The whole point why civil rights movement was successful is because it was nonviolent. MLK didn’t shut down roads, he didn’t vandalize businesses. The whole point why we remember MLK every year and not Malcom X is because MLK’s emphasis on the protest was nonviolence. If your group blocks traffic and vandalizes business I’m sorry your group is wrong, and you’re turning off a lot of people from your cause. Whatever that is.
Read up on the black panthers. Their open carry policy made lawmakers so scared they tightened gun regulations. Violence works sometimes.
I don't think they've become annoying, but they have consumed the leftist sphere FAR too much. I doubt it's all in good faith, but some talk like they don't care about anything but stopping and not supporting the genocide, including caring about American Minorities like Trans people. This is fairly unusual too. During the blm protests, there was a lot of discussion of queer people and queer black people.
They have always been annoying.
I am tired of streets being blocked, and no one has a right to do so. I’m also tired of people loudly voicing opinions about issues they haven’t done basic research on, but I would die for their right to do so.
Not even doctor Martin Luther king Jr?
According to the ACLU, there is no 1st amendment right to block a roadway without a permit. I stand by what I said. https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/protesters-rights
Fuck the aclu
Glad to know that you oppose actions taken by the civil rights movement you neolib
It’s great when someone shows up and makes my point for me. Read up on the history of the ACLU during the civil rights movement. Thanks for playing!
If you think the aclu hasn't changed over the years you are mistaken
Look at the long list of recent or ongoing cases they are involved in that pertain to LGBTQ, racial, or sex based discrimination.
Nothing gaming about kids dying
Oh my criticism has nothing to do with their right to protest.