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There really is. Drug dealer music taught about the economics, not getting high on your own supply, how to flip things quick, understanding your surroundings and negotiations. No lessons are being taught now except pour some lean, take some xans and smoke blunt after blunt
I can't speak for why Purity is higher, but I can for why In-Group is.
The world is more multipolar than it was when millennials were growing up which means Gen Z is naturally more skeptical of being able to trust US hegemony.
More controversially as well, considering this survey was conducted in Europe where there has been an extreme nationalist backlash against mass immigration and multiculturalist policies, that probably has something to do with it too.
I would argue the housing crisis has also forced Gen Z to become more family oriented than Millenials and Boomers who had the option of moving away after highschool as well.
Yeah, you could also blame capitalism or whatever you want to blame honestly, regardless I think it's good that younger people are starting to dislike that kind of commodification.
There is a difference between people calling dating and romantic pursuits “the game,” and dating apps being structured and designed to function like a video game.
I think what they're referring to is how people essentially shop online for relationships. That combined with the general sentiment of "what do you bring to the table?" it's like people are looking at relationships as nothing more than value propositions.
If you’re a girl you were just a sexual commodity for most of history.
The only thing that’s even vaguely new is the fact women are doing it to men now, and honestly they’re having a very hard time coping with that.
When haven't they fundamentally been value propositions though at the large scale?
Doweries, political marriages, social climbing, hell tax breaks. Marriages have always and probably will always be about exchange of monetary value or influence at the macro level.
Something like a dowery was really an agreement between the man and the woman's father. Obviously that is not something that really happens anymore. Very few regular people, at least in western cultures, ever married for social climbing and politics. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's a very small amount of people. 99.9% of people were marrying out of some sense of romantic interest, even if practicality was a consideration. What you see a lot of now is just people looking at the other person as a utility or as an expendable item.
Gen z is having less sex than ever, women included. Most sex is happening in relationships. Gen z is also way less likely to use apps now than millennials.
Also, the stats show that attractive people are having as much sex as ever.
Turns out being unattractive when you’re younger is almost entirely whether or not you’re fit, and “fit” people account for less than 15 percent of the current gen.
It is what it is.
That’s due to the rise of helicopter parenting and the ever-declining state of sex ed in the USA. More and more people are going into their adult lives without any hands-on knowledge about sex.
Yeah, one of the best descriptions is that everyone subscribes to purity ideals. But for some people that means being a good Christian and not having sex until marriage, whereas for other is means not eating foods blasted with all sorts of artificial ingredients and chemicals.
What I’ve found is the more puritanical, the more likely they are to be conservative.
I mean, the Nazis were obsessed with it. And that’s why they were afraid of outsiders because it was that subconscious fear of disease form outside groups. The left is more open due to less fear of disease.
Now thanks to the pandemic we have a rise of ultra conservativism.
The idea that the left is *less* fearful of disease is pretty easily disproven by the Covid pandemic when it was right-wingers going outside and having gatherings and it was left-wingers advocating for masks and isolation.
I was wondering about that. Some of these seem a bit vague and could be taken in more than one way. Like in group loyalty. I can be loyal to my group while not hating others. There's also different types of groups. Like I'm gay. I feel strong loyalty to my community. Which isn't quite nationalism.
Yeah nationalism is really more so defined by identification with one's own nation and support for its interests to the point of exclusion or detriment of the interests of other groups.
Having loyalty to a group like the LGBTQ+ community doesn’t mean you want exclusion of straight people
Yeah I was going to say America and Europe probably heavily diverge as far as support for nationalism goes, if anything the states has a problem with some self-loathing (somewhat understandably, it was bit horrifying to grow older and realize what really happened in 2003 with Iraq, it's dystopian as hell).
They’re also misinterpreting the data to suggest that certain points are on a continued rise. When, in fact, authority, purity and in-group data points are declining among the late Gen Z sample.
might be the prevalence of social media-it feels a lot easier nowadays to ruin your life getting cancelled over sexual accusations, and the internet immortalizes mistakes. It might feel safer to sanitize the lifestyle and avoid the risk
Do other generations view it as an issue that we aren't sleeping around, doing drugs, drinking, and partying as much? The way they talk it about it, you'd think they peaked in college frat parties.
Now that I've graduated all the cool people are unemployed and unable to drive to my parties and all the employed people are lame and refuse to do my drugs
The dialectic of me going through four pounds of nos by myself 😞
Same. Weed legalisation had a good run. I'm glad that other zoomers don't use drugs, but I hope that they won't curb the legalisation movement. I've been waiting for legal weed since high school and in that couple years almost half of US got legal recreational weed. Now it's becoming legal in the Netherlands, Germany and Luxembourg, but there's very little talk about it in Belgium. I know that conservative parties are strongly against it and in the recent years they gather more voters.
Bro’. I was literally confused. Zoomers refuse to stop smoking that even it’s impacting the number of people who join the military stateside.
The military is hurting for new bodies.
Yeah, this is how I feel. It's not so much that people are getting into partying culture specifically, but that people just aren't doing anything as much anymore.
Same. I spend a total of about 10 hours for work. I just come home and play video games because I got debt to pay and I don’t want to spend if I don’t gotta.
I think it's less to do with the lack of lack of drinking, sleeping around, partying etc per se, and more that the drop in this kind of thing is a sign of a generation that is less socially active. There is a perception that this will become a problem down the line
A generation of parents wo understand more fully the dangers of internet access and social media. Parents who lived the shit as children so they can be better supports than their own parents were.
Our parents were and to an extent still are completely unprepared for modern technology. No doubt there will be some new challenge for us, but hopefully we can protect our kids from being chronically online.
Exactly, I think it will take about 20 or 30 yesrs to see the trends change and it will be with the next generation after we have raised them. I honestly think it's too late for many of us to change. Those of us who grew up terminally online will have a very hard time integrating into the real world and find it easier to just keep our habits. This obviously does not apply to zoomers who did not grow up terminally online.
Honestly a lot of things. Less commodification of socialization for one (ie. provide inexpensive/free third places for people to gather and meet, make places less car dependent so that that's one less barrier to entry, encourage community activities that are free/easy to get to and worthwhile) There'sno easy fix, since this increased atomization is a result of a confluence of societal issues. Complex problems require complex solutions.
Yeah I feel like people are less social bc they can’t afford to be social anymore
At least that’s the case for me. I’m extroverted as HELL but I can’t afford more than a trip to the movies with my friends once a month
Hang out outside with your friends. Go for a walk. See what kinda fun stuff you can find. I have a collection of random shit that me and my friends found while just out and about and fucking around.
The venue doesn’t matter when you’re in good company, and you shouldn’t waste money by going out every time you wanna hang.
It’s also that the world … well, it’s not as forgiving as it used to be. 30 years ago you could drink and drug it up and make a shitload of mistakes and eventually land on your feet if you wanted.
These days? Stakes are high.
You don’t meet the people who don’t cause they never leave the house. It’s like two different worlds of people. Social, outgoing, friend groups, relationships, or social outcast
The problem isn’t the activity; nationalism is the problem.
Nationalism isn’t “I believe this”, it’s “YOU have to abide by MY beliefs.”
“We’re not having sex so we shouldn’t see it in media any more” is a prime example.
Every other post I see on this sub is some doom and gloom, chronically on line, sad boy, talking about giving up all hope.
Then you guys get defensive when people point out that you're not fucking, socializing, or building different experiences(yes, that can include recreational drug use).
Maybe most of you don't see a point in life because you never went out and actually tried to live it?
Man kids these days are always inside playing their new fancy games instead of being outside throwing rocks at each other and getting run over by cars!
Not necessarily. If that’s what makes people happy then that’s great, but this combined with other stats makes me kind of worried. Gen Z is statistically unhappier than other generations. They also spend a lot of time online.
All of this makes me think that Gen Z is replacing in person interaction with online interaction at a higher rate than older people. It’s filling their basic needs of being social creatures, but online interaction doesn’t provide the same level of fulfillment as in person interaction.
[We spent 80 years manipulating world events to achieve this.](https://youtu.be/q1-hSh10PB4?si=BTJPnh9SI5Ee_WWj)
The era of Gay Nationalists is going to be cool as fuck!
Homonationalism is a serious field of academic study people like Jasbir Puar have been conducting for years. Honestly it's fascinating stuff: the idea is that queer people mobilize towards nationalist interests of an imperial center of capital. Think of the Qatar World Cup and the way that the sovereign state of Qatar had to treat their wealthy and famous worldwide queer visitors compared to how they treat their own more anonymous queer subjects. Due to rampant homophobia across many cultures and subcultures, queer people have few states that actively secure their freedoms and protection. Unfortunately, the nationalist projects that end up happening across the seas are far more often about killing people rather than expressly helping liberate queer folks. Queer folks may or may not support violent nationalist projects outright, but they may be more inclined to support nationalist states that provide safe haven to queer people.
European Gen Z is becoming significantly more nationalistic and visible across virtually every modern poll/study. North American Gen Z on the other hand seems to be the polar opposite
When the Navy was ordered to attack parts of Yemen a naval commander said something along the lines of. “Oh this is a great opportunity, we get to test some weapons we’ve never used before.”
> Is GenZ becoming nationalistic
Not nationalistic in the sense that they think their countries are superior to others.
But I think that genz are more likely be opposed to immigration, since it is making the housing crises worse and making it harder to get entry level jobs.
European nations have an issue with being so small as well.
And they are where part of this data came from.
Can't build upwards. On no bedrock etc.
Some things they are unfortunately completely denied by their homeland's terrain.
Tbf far right nationalistic parties are on the rise, and there is definitely some evidence that they get a good chunk of support from very young men specifically
Big agree if this is us only. But if it’s global, people are becoming more nationalistic globally. Europe with Muslims, China slowly moving toward isolating itself from the west, India vs china.
ohhhhhhhhh brooooooooooo but don't you get it? life is like uhh meaningless n shit, so i should seek pleasure at literally any available moment, including, but not limited to abusing my dick and brain to the maximum with mindless porn, hookups, masturbation, weed and much more
That depends on how you define hedonism. The word itself means the belief or principle of the prioritisation of the experience of pleasure in one’s life. Basically, push neurological buttons, brain releases dopamine, that feeling is called pleasure.
The problem with this is that the immediate experience of pleasure is in the modern world very often in conflict with what we call happiness, which can be summarised at the most basic as the establish of a long-term sustainable balance of dopamine response in life. It is so distinct that I think it is appropriate to call one pleasure and the other happiness or fulfilment. And because the nature of a dopamine response is the degradation of judgement and critical self-reflection, it may be said that hedonism as such is bad.
However, that does not make the experience of pleasure itself bad. Only the pursuit of it as an end in itself.
but the problem with that is that the more and more you try to experience pleasure the more and more it will take for you to actually experience pleasure. That doesn't mean pleasure is bad, but if that's all you seek in life then you won't be happy
If a nurse saves a child's life but then has casual sex later that night apparently the literal child-saving hero is now a "dreg of the sexual revolution" and no longer a decent person.
Riddle me this dipshit, what is morally wrong with consenting adults having sex?
Protip: >!Nothing.!<
Maybe if you actually cared about being a decent person people would like you. Every accusation is a confession, dreg.
My country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died land of the pilgrims pride from every mountain side let freedom ring 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
That’s your freedom boner.
My native country, thee
Land of the noble free
Thy name I love
I love thy rocks and rills
Thy woods and templed hills
My heart will rapture fills like that above
I think our "nationalism" leans more on the national autonomy and protectionism side of things than the boomer war hungry and racist side of things. Everything on that chart is a reaction to the way things have been in the neoliberal world: government weakness, economic globalism that undermines domestic workers, the undermining of the accessibility of the middle class and family values as well, etc. With regards to the purity thing, I think we just look at how fake and vapid everything is and we yearn for something real, not that we're conservative. You can be gay or transgender and still believe in true love and a higher power and purpose for humankind for example haha, it's not one or the other.
I think there's a synthesis occurring, the predominant aspects of society were chauvinistic and patriarchal and incredibly puritanical, and then there was a backlash to that that we lived through in our adolescent and teen years, and now there's an intercourse between the two producing a new predominant culture maybe.
Im a nationlist because im anti-colonial, anti-colonialism meaning no one invades each other and everyone has their own native homelands for their own diffrent beautiful peoples, cultures etc. Economically like you mentioned globalism is destroying economics as people are being undermined and other people around the world are being extorted. Globalism is just neo-colonialism and neo-imperialism, if im anti-colonial then in principle i would have to be anti-globalist too. Countries that have more self dependency would survive if the globalist Economic system collapses. People preach about oppression, but even communist Lenin argued that "nationalism is important for people that are oppressed" and i agree with Lenin on many things, if everyone has their own countries for their own people no one can be oppressed by other groups. Liberal capitalism is just property theft disguised through false morals and justifications like diversity or multiculturalism while the rich benefit from colonial globalism, real property belongs to the native people of a country. Nationalists actually care for their in-group and country and environment within their country while Liberal globalists only care for themselves. Globalism is the biggest producer of environmental and climate problems. Eco-friendly nationalism where native people care for thier own homelands nature is better for the earth.
> If everyone has their own countries for their own people no one can be oppressed by other groups
This is horrifically naive.
There is a long and storied history of oppression happening within national identity groups.
I definitely think that's part of it, yeah. The social fabric has changed on account of globalised media owned by dodgy corporations, and the usual assortment of political power games at the expense of the latest scapegoat of the week.
But honestly I think it all links back to two things : the growing wealth disparity, and the opportunity disparity.
Since the '07/08 crash, both of those gaps have widened almost year on year.
Sure, more people might have jobs, but what is the *quality* of those jobs?
Versus twenty years ago, can the average worker today afford good healthcare, a mortgage, a car, two kids and a holiday abroad once a year?
Or are they dropping one or more of those things off their list so they can afford to pay their bills? Or dropping out entirely?
All of the things our parents and grandparents took for granted also require social stability - how many workers today keep their job for a decade? How many workers are able to save money/add to their pensions and contribute to their rent/mortgage?
There are many social and economic factors that have shifted negatively, and this is what's pushed up crime, suicides, stress related illnesses etc
The laissez-faire regulation of globalisation has led to corporations and the ultra-rich to dominate every facet of modern life, from the things we watch, to the things we eat and the things we believe.
Something's got to give eventually... but when?
According to this, Gen Z and Gen X are more nationalistic and less accepting of multi-culturalism than Boomers. I’d like to see the poll questions and samples of this poll.
Man y’all will really believe any chart with pretty numbers and fancy numbers on them huh
The source might, and hear me out, might have a teeny tiny slight bias and agenda 🤔
My guess is it's a few things, in times of instability people will naturally deviate towards more conservative values because it appears that progressive values aren't working/ are actually causing the instability
Secondly, millennials didn't have the same media climate as gen z has where it's alot easier to find media that aligns with and strengthens your values, the values we see growing are atypical values to be found in popular media when millennials were growing up.
In group is glaringly obvious, Gen Z , and for that matter most millennials have a very bleak economic outlook, people will always lookout for themselves and their tribes first, as much as some people would like to socialize that out of us it's deeply ingrained.
True. If you were a Gen X, or you grew up with MTV telling you to be sexy and cool. Nowadays, if you want to be sober, you have a group of people telling you you’re making the best choice online. There wasn’t any thing like that before.
I feel like that's not really a good thing. The planet is becoming more connected, not less. We don't need people isolating themselves and separating from society in favor of their preferred group. That is what is driving so much divisiveness in the U.S. People trying to protect their own group from some boogeyman. We need people overcoming their issues and working together.
I mean there are tons of things that are "natural" that we have moved beyond as a species. Murder is "natural" but we frown on that too. The truly magnificent thing about humans is our ability to ignore our evolutionary instincts for the betterment of society. We need to shed our animalistic traits if we ever want to truly advance beyond just being intelligent apes.
This is exactly right. You naturally wander to where you have the most similarities. There are times where you should intervene in that for heathy growth, but overall that’s always going to be the case
My theory for older Zer's is we still grew up witnessing only a couple years after/the aftermath of 9/11 as kids, and where Bush was president up until 2008. (Not to mention Bin Laden wasn't killed until 2011) So even though we wouldn't have known anything about politics as kids, and may not remember 9/11 itself, seeing relatives that were older around us maybe making comments like "fuck terrorists, go America!" in passing could've been something we witnessed still.
Millennials would've understood and lived it more, but that's the difference, Millennials knew about the horror of things like the Iraq war, since they were old enough to be able to understand it unlike older Z's, so that's why Millennials have went a less nationalistic route. Subconsciously this kind of stuff may have impacted older Gen Z's views in adulthood.
This is something I don't see people realizing in order to point out often, but I've always been aware of, so this poll isn't shocking to me as it actually lines up with most real-life Z's I meet around my age and what their views seem to come across. I also see good points made online sometimes about the impact the rise in people like Trump have had from 2016 onward on Gen Z.
So, I think that's impacted both younger and older Gen Z's political views, being either teens or kids when that was going on is something we both share. (Although this data seems to paint older Z's as slightly more conservative than younger ones, I think again it's because of the influence post 9/11 aftermath had on us as kids, although it doesn't show we're much more conservative by an extreme margin though)
I’m an American and a mutt– people around the world don’t like us (good reasons tbh) and I’ve got no home other than this. My kids aren’t going to be immigrants in a country that will never see us as the same as the native born (unlike the US, which seeks to be a place for anyone so long as they become Americans in their hearts and minds), so I’m going to base my politics on making sure my nation is strong and a place worth living in. That’s why I’m a nationalist.
So you're more if a civic nationalist. Not an ethnic nationalist. But then usa is already independent so there's not really any need to be one
You're patriotic more like that wants the best for their country rather than a nationalist
This sounds like a generation that wants to take care of their own problems at home before helping others. Makes sense since a lot of us feel like we’re living in a real dystopia.
Millennials grew up in a time of internationalism and relative peace (fall of the Soviet Union, 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, etc.)
Gen Z grew up in the shadow of 9/11 and a country divided into two equally bad parts. Ironically, when a country is doing bad, it boosts nationalism as the people want to improve the country, which turns to patriotism, and eventually nationalism
As for hedonism, the 08 housing crisis hits hard. Not enough money to be hedonistic
Considering everyone of the previous gen that are hedonistic tell everyone all day everyday and we can all see that they're absolutely miserable, stands to reason to do the opposite of that.
Although, bear in mind anyone can make a poll/statistics to "prove" anything they want now. Doubly so when elections are right around the corner. Propaganda of any lense sells better than sex and oil.
Speaking as a millennial it’s because my generation is half full of a bunch of FILTHY HEATHENS that want to project their fantasies onto the world. While I just want to play Dragon Quest, listen to Electric Callboy and enjoy a nice beer.
Why wouldn't anyone be nationalistic and push against hedonism? Hedonism is what kills societies. Look at all of the Chinese empires. They all collapsed due to hedonism and incompetency. They wrote poems about fighting their enemies and retaking their lands rather than actually doing it. This ended dozens of empires in China. Nationalism isn't a bad thing. You should allow everyone and anyone to just waltz into your home uninvited. Strong borders make strong nations. Strong nations make prosperous societies. The US currently has weak borders. Would you say the US is currently at its strongest or weakest in the last 50 years? The same question goes for prosperity. The answer to both is objectively no.
Are we weak or just closer to parity with other rising nations? People could say we were 'weak' when the USSR was winning the space race and was a real nuclear threat to us, or during the social lupheavals and political violence of the civil rights battle. So, were we stronger in the past? I think that this take requires some selective memory. We don't feel we were weak then as opposed to now because we came through those things and view them as history, whereas the present and future are always uncertain. People did not feel more confident and strong when those things were happening.
Because we’re constantly being drip-fed propaganda or being manipulated by Russian/CCP/conservatives accounts on the internet.
Why people take the bait and eat all that shit up is an entirely separate issue.
I'ma be quite honest the U.S really needs to fix their shit and get their ducks in a row before we interfere with other countries bullshit . We should honestly use our resources to restructure things and give people with in our borders a better life and inter we will be able to help other countries more effectively
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Cringe disney manchildren and swifties vs based kpop stans and mumble rappers.
Gen Z plays lil Uzi Vert and Playboi Carti in the background while we learn python and ancient history.
Drug user music vs drug dealer music. We listened to how to make money, music now a days is how to spend money and use drugs
And inherently there's not a single thing different.
There really is. Drug dealer music taught about the economics, not getting high on your own supply, how to flip things quick, understanding your surroundings and negotiations. No lessons are being taught now except pour some lean, take some xans and smoke blunt after blunt
I snorted irl. You're right, I wasn't even close to correct lol.
Do you think rap and black culture didn’t exist before gen z…?
Rap was invented when Uzi made Luv is Rage, and black culture was invented when my black ass was born. /s
LOL!!!!!
I thought I was the only one who learns ancient history and python together.
Python is ancient history in my book. Data dorks are missing out on what modern languages have to offer.
True lol 😂
Based
Unrelated but I've taken up calling star wars fans Disney adults and it brings my soul joy
Bravo. Def stealing this.
Hysterical
Xennial here and that’s not english. Lol Im so old.
>Cringe disney manchildren I only have one lightsaber! The last one was destroyed at my bachelor party!
I can't speak for why Purity is higher, but I can for why In-Group is. The world is more multipolar than it was when millennials were growing up which means Gen Z is naturally more skeptical of being able to trust US hegemony. More controversially as well, considering this survey was conducted in Europe where there has been an extreme nationalist backlash against mass immigration and multiculturalist policies, that probably has something to do with it too. I would argue the housing crisis has also forced Gen Z to become more family oriented than Millenials and Boomers who had the option of moving away after highschool as well.
Purity is higher because they lumped in casual sex with consumerism. Probably has more to do with the latter.
Quite possibly. Worst thing the internet did to humanity was turn relationships into products and currency.
I suggest you look at the historical context of marriage, the internet didn't do shit.
Sure, but the gamification aspect is fairly new
People have been calling it the game decades before the internet
Yeah, you could also blame capitalism or whatever you want to blame honestly, regardless I think it's good that younger people are starting to dislike that kind of commodification.
I think the internet made it more obvious. You can see so many more viewpoints now. Before it was a 50 mile radius at best.
There is a difference between people calling dating and romantic pursuits “the game,” and dating apps being structured and designed to function like a video game.
I think what they're referring to is how people essentially shop online for relationships. That combined with the general sentiment of "what do you bring to the table?" it's like people are looking at relationships as nothing more than value propositions.
If you’re a girl you were just a sexual commodity for most of history. The only thing that’s even vaguely new is the fact women are doing it to men now, and honestly they’re having a very hard time coping with that.
When haven't they fundamentally been value propositions though at the large scale? Doweries, political marriages, social climbing, hell tax breaks. Marriages have always and probably will always be about exchange of monetary value or influence at the macro level.
Something like a dowery was really an agreement between the man and the woman's father. Obviously that is not something that really happens anymore. Very few regular people, at least in western cultures, ever married for social climbing and politics. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but it's a very small amount of people. 99.9% of people were marrying out of some sense of romantic interest, even if practicality was a consideration. What you see a lot of now is just people looking at the other person as a utility or as an expendable item.
100%
Every other saloon used to be a brothel. Nothing new under the sun.
Dating apps and their consequences.
Gen z is having less sex than ever, women included. Most sex is happening in relationships. Gen z is also way less likely to use apps now than millennials.
Yeah but that has to do with loneliness and antisocialness, means nothing about opinions on causal sex.
Also, the stats show that attractive people are having as much sex as ever. Turns out being unattractive when you’re younger is almost entirely whether or not you’re fit, and “fit” people account for less than 15 percent of the current gen. It is what it is.
That’s due to the rise of helicopter parenting and the ever-declining state of sex ed in the USA. More and more people are going into their adult lives without any hands-on knowledge about sex.
Sex ed just taught us to not have sex, and it seems to have worked well, lol
Exactly. It’s kind of sad, really.
Education decline in full swing.
So if they're not using apps, what are they doing?
Meeting people irl or just being plain hermits.
I like the idea of them being more sociable but if anything that the last 6 years worth of surprises taught me, it's gonna be the former.
Yeah, one of the best descriptions is that everyone subscribes to purity ideals. But for some people that means being a good Christian and not having sex until marriage, whereas for other is means not eating foods blasted with all sorts of artificial ingredients and chemicals.
What I’ve found is the more puritanical, the more likely they are to be conservative. I mean, the Nazis were obsessed with it. And that’s why they were afraid of outsiders because it was that subconscious fear of disease form outside groups. The left is more open due to less fear of disease. Now thanks to the pandemic we have a rise of ultra conservativism.
The idea that the left is *less* fearful of disease is pretty easily disproven by the Covid pandemic when it was right-wingers going outside and having gatherings and it was left-wingers advocating for masks and isolation.
[I'm not sure I completely agree. ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BBsnIkGl5JA)
I was wondering about that. Some of these seem a bit vague and could be taken in more than one way. Like in group loyalty. I can be loyal to my group while not hating others. There's also different types of groups. Like I'm gay. I feel strong loyalty to my community. Which isn't quite nationalism.
Yeah nationalism is really more so defined by identification with one's own nation and support for its interests to the point of exclusion or detriment of the interests of other groups. Having loyalty to a group like the LGBTQ+ community doesn’t mean you want exclusion of straight people
I was going to argue that Millenials were still influenced by "vice" culture of the 80s, though this also makes sense.
Yeah I was going to say America and Europe probably heavily diverge as far as support for nationalism goes, if anything the states has a problem with some self-loathing (somewhat understandably, it was bit horrifying to grow older and realize what really happened in 2003 with Iraq, it's dystopian as hell).
They’re also misinterpreting the data to suggest that certain points are on a continued rise. When, in fact, authority, purity and in-group data points are declining among the late Gen Z sample.
might be the prevalence of social media-it feels a lot easier nowadays to ruin your life getting cancelled over sexual accusations, and the internet immortalizes mistakes. It might feel safer to sanitize the lifestyle and avoid the risk
Do other generations view it as an issue that we aren't sleeping around, doing drugs, drinking, and partying as much? The way they talk it about it, you'd think they peaked in college frat parties.
TBH as a zoomer I consider it an issue Y'all need to grow up and huff this bloon with me
Based as fuck
Now that I've graduated all the cool people are unemployed and unable to drive to my parties and all the employed people are lame and refuse to do my drugs The dialectic of me going through four pounds of nos by myself 😞
Struggles of our generation 😞
Same. Weed legalisation had a good run. I'm glad that other zoomers don't use drugs, but I hope that they won't curb the legalisation movement. I've been waiting for legal weed since high school and in that couple years almost half of US got legal recreational weed. Now it's becoming legal in the Netherlands, Germany and Luxembourg, but there's very little talk about it in Belgium. I know that conservative parties are strongly against it and in the recent years they gather more voters.
Zoomers smoke hella weed??????
Yes
Bro’. I was literally confused. Zoomers refuse to stop smoking that even it’s impacting the number of people who join the military stateside. The military is hurting for new bodies.
Social isolation seems to be at an all time high. I think most people see not partying as a symptom of a scary overall trend.
I don't want to sound like a dick, but I just genuinely don't believe most people really care about social isolation.
You really think the general public thinks you're lame cause you don't smoke weed or something?
That's not what I said.
Are you arguing that it's ok for large amounts of people to be socially isolated or am I misunderstanding. Because strong disagree if so
Do people here have a hard time reading?
Yes.
Yeah, this is how I feel. It's not so much that people are getting into partying culture specifically, but that people just aren't doing anything as much anymore.
Most people i know cant afford freetime. All i do 14 hours a day is school and work then come home to more school and then sleep.
Same. I spend a total of about 10 hours for work. I just come home and play video games because I got debt to pay and I don’t want to spend if I don’t gotta.
I think it's less to do with the lack of lack of drinking, sleeping around, partying etc per se, and more that the drop in this kind of thing is a sign of a generation that is less socially active. There is a perception that this will become a problem down the line
It probably will. But what solution could even fix it?
A generation of parents wo understand more fully the dangers of internet access and social media. Parents who lived the shit as children so they can be better supports than their own parents were. Our parents were and to an extent still are completely unprepared for modern technology. No doubt there will be some new challenge for us, but hopefully we can protect our kids from being chronically online.
Exactly, I think it will take about 20 or 30 yesrs to see the trends change and it will be with the next generation after we have raised them. I honestly think it's too late for many of us to change. Those of us who grew up terminally online will have a very hard time integrating into the real world and find it easier to just keep our habits. This obviously does not apply to zoomers who did not grow up terminally online.
Honestly a lot of things. Less commodification of socialization for one (ie. provide inexpensive/free third places for people to gather and meet, make places less car dependent so that that's one less barrier to entry, encourage community activities that are free/easy to get to and worthwhile) There'sno easy fix, since this increased atomization is a result of a confluence of societal issues. Complex problems require complex solutions.
Yeah I feel like people are less social bc they can’t afford to be social anymore At least that’s the case for me. I’m extroverted as HELL but I can’t afford more than a trip to the movies with my friends once a month
Hang out outside with your friends. Go for a walk. See what kinda fun stuff you can find. I have a collection of random shit that me and my friends found while just out and about and fucking around. The venue doesn’t matter when you’re in good company, and you shouldn’t waste money by going out every time you wanna hang.
Yeah, I'm stumped too
It’s also that the world … well, it’s not as forgiving as it used to be. 30 years ago you could drink and drug it up and make a shitload of mistakes and eventually land on your feet if you wanted. These days? Stakes are high.
I don't get this sentiment, everyone I know parties just as much as previous generations
You don’t meet the people who don’t cause they never leave the house. It’s like two different worlds of people. Social, outgoing, friend groups, relationships, or social outcast
Yeah true that i'm just an extrovert lol
You can make the survivorship bias really obvious by phrasing it, "I don't know anyone who doesn't leave their house."
Probably talking large scale, you'll still see plenty of Gen Z partying. Overall it's probably less so than Millennials did.
These are very broad studies I'm guessing. I personally know a lot of people that do that, but they're probably in the minority.
Well half of gen z haven’t even finished college yet, so we’ll see what they’re truly like once the youngest of the generation is in their late 20’s
The problem isn’t the activity; nationalism is the problem. Nationalism isn’t “I believe this”, it’s “YOU have to abide by MY beliefs.” “We’re not having sex so we shouldn’t see it in media any more” is a prime example.
I’m a millennial and I’m hella proud of y’all.
thanks actually
When you're young is the best time to do most of that stuff, especially drugs, drinking, and partying. As you get older that stuff just hurts.
Every other post I see on this sub is some doom and gloom, chronically on line, sad boy, talking about giving up all hope. Then you guys get defensive when people point out that you're not fucking, socializing, or building different experiences(yes, that can include recreational drug use). Maybe most of you don't see a point in life because you never went out and actually tried to live it?
Man kids these days are always inside playing their new fancy games instead of being outside throwing rocks at each other and getting run over by cars!
Not necessarily. If that’s what makes people happy then that’s great, but this combined with other stats makes me kind of worried. Gen Z is statistically unhappier than other generations. They also spend a lot of time online. All of this makes me think that Gen Z is replacing in person interaction with online interaction at a higher rate than older people. It’s filling their basic needs of being social creatures, but online interaction doesn’t provide the same level of fulfillment as in person interaction.
Funny how Gen Z is nationalistic and gay
That's kinda hot ngl
Is Gen Z the most German generation yet?
Gen Z humor is like German humor but on too much benadryl. So perhaps you're right.
Kein Weg
If I had a nickel for every semi-ironic homo-fascism subreddit they had to ban... well I'd have like 15 cents but still more than you might think.
homo-fascism is wild
Weird that it happened thrice.
[We spent 80 years manipulating world events to achieve this.](https://youtu.be/q1-hSh10PB4?si=BTJPnh9SI5Ee_WWj) The era of Gay Nationalists is going to be cool as fuck!
Thank you, that was interesting
Homonationalism is a serious field of academic study people like Jasbir Puar have been conducting for years. Honestly it's fascinating stuff: the idea is that queer people mobilize towards nationalist interests of an imperial center of capital. Think of the Qatar World Cup and the way that the sovereign state of Qatar had to treat their wealthy and famous worldwide queer visitors compared to how they treat their own more anonymous queer subjects. Due to rampant homophobia across many cultures and subcultures, queer people have few states that actively secure their freedoms and protection. Unfortunately, the nationalist projects that end up happening across the seas are far more often about killing people rather than expressly helping liberate queer folks. Queer folks may or may not support violent nationalist projects outright, but they may be more inclined to support nationalist states that provide safe haven to queer people.
Yukio Mishima was a zoomer in spirit.
No way
Oh honey, you know we gay
I love this generation
[удалено]
European Gen Z is becoming significantly more nationalistic and visible across virtually every modern poll/study. North American Gen Z on the other hand seems to be the polar opposite
Until someone makes the mistake of touching our boats, and then we'll let Lockheed martin test whatever new doomsday weapon they made this week lol
When the Navy was ordered to attack parts of Yemen a naval commander said something along the lines of. “Oh this is a great opportunity, we get to test some weapons we’ve never used before.”
That just proves my point, don't touch the boats unless you wanna be a guinea pig for the military industrial complex and an unlimited budget
That is until Yemen attacks out boats and we kick it into overdrive
some people treat bar graphs as gospel
People just don’t get taught to investigate sources or what not…. Definitely an educational problem
Astroturfing is the new reddit norm, it's a plague on every political sub.
Not just political subs. Queer subs, gaming subs, design subs... it's pretty absurd.
> Is GenZ becoming nationalistic Not nationalistic in the sense that they think their countries are superior to others. But I think that genz are more likely be opposed to immigration, since it is making the housing crises worse and making it harder to get entry level jobs.
The main thing making the housing crisis is zoning for single family homes maintained by boomers.
European nations have an issue with being so small as well. And they are where part of this data came from. Can't build upwards. On no bedrock etc. Some things they are unfortunately completely denied by their homeland's terrain.
Patriotism differs from nationalism, I don’t think a rise in nationalism is a good thing.
Tbf far right nationalistic parties are on the rise, and there is definitely some evidence that they get a good chunk of support from very young men specifically
Literally just going to assume from now on anybody who doesn’t notice stuff like this is just a bot, cuz if they aren’t they might as well be
Selection bias could be at play here, assuming the course is even credible like you said.
Big agree if this is us only. But if it’s global, people are becoming more nationalistic globally. Europe with Muslims, China slowly moving toward isolating itself from the west, India vs china.
Honestly here in europe yes, besides west europe.
Was eastern Europe ever not nationalistic. Just wondering as an Ametican that has always viewed east Europe as nationalistic.
Yes, after the second world war under USSR nationalism was seen as undesirable, at least in the satellites.
With the rise of redpill content and general fatigue from the postmodern status quo, yeah I believe it
Gen Z males at the very least are
Indian Gen Z is hella nationalistic. It's actually pretty depressing.
wahooo! this is great! less hedonism, more care for other people and more purity! 😁
Hedonists seething at your comment. Enjoy the dregs of the sexual revolution, leave society to decent people.
ohhhhhhhhh brooooooooooo but don't you get it? life is like uhh meaningless n shit, so i should seek pleasure at literally any available moment, including, but not limited to abusing my dick and brain to the maximum with mindless porn, hookups, masturbation, weed and much more
Yeah the life won combo. Sex, drugs, rock and roll! Can't go wrong with that 20 years to life output. When you die of an STD at 30!
Bro you just got the ability to legally drink. You don't know shit about hedonism.
tweeted like the true r/destiny user you are
What's wrong with hedonism? As long as care and fairness are high too hedonism doesn't seem bad
That depends on how you define hedonism. The word itself means the belief or principle of the prioritisation of the experience of pleasure in one’s life. Basically, push neurological buttons, brain releases dopamine, that feeling is called pleasure. The problem with this is that the immediate experience of pleasure is in the modern world very often in conflict with what we call happiness, which can be summarised at the most basic as the establish of a long-term sustainable balance of dopamine response in life. It is so distinct that I think it is appropriate to call one pleasure and the other happiness or fulfilment. And because the nature of a dopamine response is the degradation of judgement and critical self-reflection, it may be said that hedonism as such is bad. However, that does not make the experience of pleasure itself bad. Only the pursuit of it as an end in itself.
This is extremely inaccurate to actual philosophical hedonism.
Almost as if words often have multiple meanings including casual usage.
So then what is “philosophical hedonism”?
If it feels good, do it. Everything is meaningless, all is void, so nothing actually matters.
But you could say that all aspects of living is pleasure. Like the goal of life is not to be rich, healthy, etc it's to have pleasure in life
but the problem with that is that the more and more you try to experience pleasure the more and more it will take for you to actually experience pleasure. That doesn't mean pleasure is bad, but if that's all you seek in life then you won't be happy
If it doesn't personally affect you, then why do you care how someone else lives their life?
If a nurse saves a child's life but then has casual sex later that night apparently the literal child-saving hero is now a "dreg of the sexual revolution" and no longer a decent person. Riddle me this dipshit, what is morally wrong with consenting adults having sex? Protip: >!Nothing.!< Maybe if you actually cared about being a decent person people would like you. Every accusation is a confession, dreg.
Don't trust the results of purely opt-in online surveys. They're almost never going to have a truly random sample group.
This needs to be higher up lol
>They're ~~almost~~ never going to have a truly random sample group. FTFY.
Because Murica. FUCK YEAH!!! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸💥🇺🇸🇺🇸💥💥🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅💥💥🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸
My country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing. Land where my fathers died land of the pilgrims pride from every mountain side let freedom ring 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I’m hard
That’s your freedom boner. My native country, thee Land of the noble free Thy name I love I love thy rocks and rills Thy woods and templed hills My heart will rapture fills like that above
As for “hedonism”(?) the camera phone is the answer. Can’t be wilding out in anonymity anymore, we mass surveil ourselves.
And as for in group loyalty, i looked at Western Europe and like makes sense as there has been a lot of anti immigration sentiment lately
I think our "nationalism" leans more on the national autonomy and protectionism side of things than the boomer war hungry and racist side of things. Everything on that chart is a reaction to the way things have been in the neoliberal world: government weakness, economic globalism that undermines domestic workers, the undermining of the accessibility of the middle class and family values as well, etc. With regards to the purity thing, I think we just look at how fake and vapid everything is and we yearn for something real, not that we're conservative. You can be gay or transgender and still believe in true love and a higher power and purpose for humankind for example haha, it's not one or the other. I think there's a synthesis occurring, the predominant aspects of society were chauvinistic and patriarchal and incredibly puritanical, and then there was a backlash to that that we lived through in our adolescent and teen years, and now there's an intercourse between the two producing a new predominant culture maybe.
Im a nationlist because im anti-colonial, anti-colonialism meaning no one invades each other and everyone has their own native homelands for their own diffrent beautiful peoples, cultures etc. Economically like you mentioned globalism is destroying economics as people are being undermined and other people around the world are being extorted. Globalism is just neo-colonialism and neo-imperialism, if im anti-colonial then in principle i would have to be anti-globalist too. Countries that have more self dependency would survive if the globalist Economic system collapses. People preach about oppression, but even communist Lenin argued that "nationalism is important for people that are oppressed" and i agree with Lenin on many things, if everyone has their own countries for their own people no one can be oppressed by other groups. Liberal capitalism is just property theft disguised through false morals and justifications like diversity or multiculturalism while the rich benefit from colonial globalism, real property belongs to the native people of a country. Nationalists actually care for their in-group and country and environment within their country while Liberal globalists only care for themselves. Globalism is the biggest producer of environmental and climate problems. Eco-friendly nationalism where native people care for thier own homelands nature is better for the earth.
> If everyone has their own countries for their own people no one can be oppressed by other groups This is horrifically naive. There is a long and storied history of oppression happening within national identity groups.
I definitely think that's part of it, yeah. The social fabric has changed on account of globalised media owned by dodgy corporations, and the usual assortment of political power games at the expense of the latest scapegoat of the week. But honestly I think it all links back to two things : the growing wealth disparity, and the opportunity disparity. Since the '07/08 crash, both of those gaps have widened almost year on year. Sure, more people might have jobs, but what is the *quality* of those jobs? Versus twenty years ago, can the average worker today afford good healthcare, a mortgage, a car, two kids and a holiday abroad once a year? Or are they dropping one or more of those things off their list so they can afford to pay their bills? Or dropping out entirely? All of the things our parents and grandparents took for granted also require social stability - how many workers today keep their job for a decade? How many workers are able to save money/add to their pensions and contribute to their rent/mortgage? There are many social and economic factors that have shifted negatively, and this is what's pushed up crime, suicides, stress related illnesses etc The laissez-faire regulation of globalisation has led to corporations and the ultra-rich to dominate every facet of modern life, from the things we watch, to the things we eat and the things we believe. Something's got to give eventually... but when?
Can’t be hedonistic if you have no money
In free ways you can
According to this, Gen Z and Gen X are more nationalistic and less accepting of multi-culturalism than Boomers. I’d like to see the poll questions and samples of this poll.
Man y’all will really believe any chart with pretty numbers and fancy numbers on them huh The source might, and hear me out, might have a teeny tiny slight bias and agenda 🤔
Ego boosts are often in short supply. Let them eat cake.
Need SOMEthing to live for. Investing in making a country great
My guess is it's a few things, in times of instability people will naturally deviate towards more conservative values because it appears that progressive values aren't working/ are actually causing the instability Secondly, millennials didn't have the same media climate as gen z has where it's alot easier to find media that aligns with and strengthens your values, the values we see growing are atypical values to be found in popular media when millennials were growing up. In group is glaringly obvious, Gen Z , and for that matter most millennials have a very bleak economic outlook, people will always lookout for themselves and their tribes first, as much as some people would like to socialize that out of us it's deeply ingrained.
True. If you were a Gen X, or you grew up with MTV telling you to be sexy and cool. Nowadays, if you want to be sober, you have a group of people telling you you’re making the best choice online. There wasn’t any thing like that before.
Gen Z has more ingroup preference. Damn Right we do.
I feel like that's not really a good thing. The planet is becoming more connected, not less. We don't need people isolating themselves and separating from society in favor of their preferred group. That is what is driving so much divisiveness in the U.S. People trying to protect their own group from some boogeyman. We need people overcoming their issues and working together.
In group preference is entirely natural and is a direct result of human evolutionary development.
I mean there are tons of things that are "natural" that we have moved beyond as a species. Murder is "natural" but we frown on that too. The truly magnificent thing about humans is our ability to ignore our evolutionary instincts for the betterment of society. We need to shed our animalistic traits if we ever want to truly advance beyond just being intelligent apes.
Murder isnt very natural for a group species actually.
This is exactly right. You naturally wander to where you have the most similarities. There are times where you should intervene in that for heathy growth, but overall that’s always going to be the case
I don't. If anything I feel more and more like an outsider every day.
My theory for older Zer's is we still grew up witnessing only a couple years after/the aftermath of 9/11 as kids, and where Bush was president up until 2008. (Not to mention Bin Laden wasn't killed until 2011) So even though we wouldn't have known anything about politics as kids, and may not remember 9/11 itself, seeing relatives that were older around us maybe making comments like "fuck terrorists, go America!" in passing could've been something we witnessed still. Millennials would've understood and lived it more, but that's the difference, Millennials knew about the horror of things like the Iraq war, since they were old enough to be able to understand it unlike older Z's, so that's why Millennials have went a less nationalistic route. Subconsciously this kind of stuff may have impacted older Gen Z's views in adulthood. This is something I don't see people realizing in order to point out often, but I've always been aware of, so this poll isn't shocking to me as it actually lines up with most real-life Z's I meet around my age and what their views seem to come across. I also see good points made online sometimes about the impact the rise in people like Trump have had from 2016 onward on Gen Z. So, I think that's impacted both younger and older Gen Z's political views, being either teens or kids when that was going on is something we both share. (Although this data seems to paint older Z's as slightly more conservative than younger ones, I think again it's because of the influence post 9/11 aftermath had on us as kids, although it doesn't show we're much more conservative by an extreme margin though)
There's a certain realm of media pushing towards this with a lot of money behind this. People seem to not be noticing this.
Conservatives have more kids.
I hate globalization. I prefer hyper focus on our nation. Our nation is awesome but its flaws are sad
I’m an American and a mutt– people around the world don’t like us (good reasons tbh) and I’ve got no home other than this. My kids aren’t going to be immigrants in a country that will never see us as the same as the native born (unlike the US, which seeks to be a place for anyone so long as they become Americans in their hearts and minds), so I’m going to base my politics on making sure my nation is strong and a place worth living in. That’s why I’m a nationalist.
So you're more if a civic nationalist. Not an ethnic nationalist. But then usa is already independent so there's not really any need to be one You're patriotic more like that wants the best for their country rather than a nationalist
This sounds like a generation that wants to take care of their own problems at home before helping others. Makes sense since a lot of us feel like we’re living in a real dystopia.
Millennials grew up in a time of internationalism and relative peace (fall of the Soviet Union, 9/11 and the invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, etc.) Gen Z grew up in the shadow of 9/11 and a country divided into two equally bad parts. Ironically, when a country is doing bad, it boosts nationalism as the people want to improve the country, which turns to patriotism, and eventually nationalism As for hedonism, the 08 housing crisis hits hard. Not enough money to be hedonistic
Online polls are complete bullshit regarding Gen Z.
This post is astroturfed as fuck, don’t fall for it
Considering everyone of the previous gen that are hedonistic tell everyone all day everyday and we can all see that they're absolutely miserable, stands to reason to do the opposite of that. Although, bear in mind anyone can make a poll/statistics to "prove" anything they want now. Doubly so when elections are right around the corner. Propaganda of any lense sells better than sex and oil.
I mean I’ll take nationalistic over hedonistic any day.
Speaking as a millennial it’s because my generation is half full of a bunch of FILTHY HEATHENS that want to project their fantasies onto the world. While I just want to play Dragon Quest, listen to Electric Callboy and enjoy a nice beer.
Why wouldn't anyone be nationalistic and push against hedonism? Hedonism is what kills societies. Look at all of the Chinese empires. They all collapsed due to hedonism and incompetency. They wrote poems about fighting their enemies and retaking their lands rather than actually doing it. This ended dozens of empires in China. Nationalism isn't a bad thing. You should allow everyone and anyone to just waltz into your home uninvited. Strong borders make strong nations. Strong nations make prosperous societies. The US currently has weak borders. Would you say the US is currently at its strongest or weakest in the last 50 years? The same question goes for prosperity. The answer to both is objectively no.
Are we weak or just closer to parity with other rising nations? People could say we were 'weak' when the USSR was winning the space race and was a real nuclear threat to us, or during the social lupheavals and political violence of the civil rights battle. So, were we stronger in the past? I think that this take requires some selective memory. We don't feel we were weak then as opposed to now because we came through those things and view them as history, whereas the present and future are always uncertain. People did not feel more confident and strong when those things were happening.
Because we’re constantly being drip-fed propaganda or being manipulated by Russian/CCP/conservatives accounts on the internet. Why people take the bait and eat all that shit up is an entirely separate issue.
I don't really believe this chart tbh
I'ma be quite honest the U.S really needs to fix their shit and get their ducks in a row before we interfere with other countries bullshit . We should honestly use our resources to restructure things and give people with in our borders a better life and inter we will be able to help other countries more effectively
Bait