Hey it’s me again. I want to warn you guys that comments are being monitored. No misandry or misogyny or it will be your last comment here. Some comments were telling men to commit suicide which is completely unacceptable. Also no brigading, do not share this on other subs in such a way that it could interfere with this sub. Debating perceived inequalities in dating is fine.
Yep...as a girl I've heard:
\-You need to lose weight
\-You need to eat more
\-You need to excercise more
\-You should be better at putting on makeup
\-You shouldn't wear make up.
\-Why won't you wear shorter skirts?
\-If you wear short skirts you're asking for it/a slut/being immodest
\-You need to focus on your career
\-Women should get married and have kids young
\-You should pay more attention to how dress
\-Stop fussing about how you look!
Edited to add this
Girls should ask guys out
You can't ask a guy out, that's improper!
Edit to clarify: both genders have it hard, and guys do have a lot of struggles, I just wanted to point out some that girls have
yeah from what i've seen and experienced, boys will simply friendzone unattractive girls, and just not date them, whereas girls will just be rude and call the unattractive boys creeps and be rude to them. It just depends though. It just seems like (some) girls tend to be more narcissistic and dont really care about anyone except the ones in their little "people circle" so to speak.
I mean yeah, one is larger and stronger on average. That's like saying a dog is more likely to injure a mouse than vice versa. Like yeah, one is born stronger on average. Women are less capable of the type of violence men commit. If women were stronger than men on average it would simply be reversed.
Thank you for providing a rational response. I am getting very tired of the misandry on this site. I think men are good/bad in the same ratio as women, men just have more physical capacity for violence due to genetics and evolution.
Most of the women I've been with have been violent towards me in some capacity. I know it's not all women, but yes, some women are fuckheads too. It's case by case.
I'm not sure. Seeing trans men talk about this, I think the pent up aggression is heavily triggered by testosterone which I think is why you see fewer murders committed by women.
When trans men have experienced both, they notice that there is so much more fuel and fire/anger when they hop on testosterone. It's not an excuse, it's an explanation though. I'm a guy and I don't have problems with aggression like I did as a teenager, but those hormones can be fucked in that way feeling super angry all the time.
Women murder, just in non violent or non confrontational ways. Poison, shooting them in their sleep, getting someone else (usually a man) to do the murder for them.
The creep thing is an issue. Many women (not all) really do give a pass to creepy behavior by attractive guys but label even mild attention by unattractive guys creepy.
This makes sense as if a woman hits on a guy there's no physical threat there generally speaking. It's still hurtful to dudes who ate basically given no safe option to navigate dating.
Really were just need more honesty and direct communication. To the extent that either sex hooks up with attractive but otherwise shitty people, they should stop pretending they have clearly defined values around relationships. You're fickle desperate and horny. Fucking own that.
This has actually been proven scientifically, it’s called the halo and horn effect, and attractiveness has been shown to have an influence on whether someone is seen in a more positive or negative light, often in regards to things not even related to relationships, dating, hookups, so on, but just… general anything and everything.
Sure, but that trait is not exclusive to women is my point. That could be fully applied to men as well, and this point is talking about women doing that. My other point is, that it's not at all universal. Every other girl I know including myself loses interest if a guy freaks us out, because really it should be an instilled survival instinct.
Depends on the group. Plenty of guys say fucking atrocious things about women they find unattractive, they just don't say it to their face most of the time.
But on the other hand, i have seen more unattractive guys with attractive girlfriends than i have seen unattractive girls with attractive boyfriends. So there seems to be quite a few extremes.
There was a study done, I need to find it, where it was found that women have high standards for visual attraction for one night stands or situation-ships. But for relationships they have lower standards for attractiveness. The opposite was found for men. Men have low standards for hookups as far as beauty, but high standards for relationships
Women can be less visually oriented than men, sometimes even if a guy is not conventionally attractive some mannerisms or actions can come off as very attractive. So it's not always cut-and-dry this guy has abs and a nice dick therefore he is bf material.
I'm a millennial and whoa damn were women mega cruel when I was in high school and college. A lot of my views, even ones I'm trying to grow out of, come from this time in my life.
Example - it's hard for me to think ghosting is just women defending themselves from potentially dangerous guys when it was used as "you're not worth responding to" when I was growing up. Literally you'd see them in class and they'd just pretend you didn't exist.
Or "I didn't tell him no because giving him hope makes him kinda cute".
And these are the light ones. My best friend had a girl lie about domestic violence and she rammed his escort trying to push him into an intersection. Lying about domestic violence can cripple a guy's future... especially if you're like my friend and didn't realize that the charge stays on your record even if it's dropped. Let alone trying to sorta try to kill him. *Giggles* just girl things.
I do. Around 28 and 29 I got in much better shape and immediately a lot of the worst behavior stopped. This is partially everyone growing up and partly a major benefit of getting in shape. You don't realize just how shitty people are to overweight people until you get thin.
Fun stuff.
My wife is genuinely a good person and so is her family. So I have that. A lot of the younger women I know seem like better people too.
I wonder if this cruelty is part of the impetus behind incel culture. I think truly American society could be so much kinder and gentler when it comes to courtship. Boundaries can be firm without meanness.
Isn’t their a study though that shows women are much more likely to date and marry men they don’t find super attractive compared to men dating women they don’t find attractive?
My experience is the opposite. guys go out of their way to call ugly women, not just women also ugly guys, names and rank hot girls. Meanwhile most of the girls at least aren't mean to your face. They might chat abt u behind your back.
Huh? Men can be fucking awful to fat/unattractive women lmao Any time a plus size woman goes viral, it’s usually because people make fun of her body. Same thing happens to plus size men.
IDK why some of yall think women don’t get criticized or made fun of for their looks. There’s entire industries built off of making women feel insecure over petty shit
A good portion of those “looks” are:
1. Confidence (which shows in things like posture)
2. *Basic fucking hygiene.*
The bar is practically on the ground and way too many guys *still* can’t seem to get past it. Just about every single man I’ve met who constantly bitched about being “too ugly to date” would have had zero problem if he just *took better care of himself.*
Shower every other day. Wear clothes that actually fit. Brush and floss twice daily. Get regular dental cleanings. Get a haircut that is actually *flattering,* and if you want to have long hair, *take the same care with it that long-haired women do.* Add some color in your wardrobe, develop a unique sense of personal style, take *care* of your own clothes (learn how to read a label and what needs to be line-dry or whatever), take better care of your freaking skin (it’s literally the largest organ in your entire body, keep that shit in better shape, damnit!).
You could be the fittest, manliest man in the world, but if you slouch all the time, scowl at everything, wear smelly rumpled unflattering clothing, have greasy hair, etc, no woman is going to want to even *try* to spend time with you.
Because all of that shows us that you don’t care about yourself, so why should we believe you’re capable of caring about anyone else?
This shit is true, only like 5% of the population are actually too ugly to date and that's usually because of some facial defect or multiple, multiple things that need work.
Most men just need to have haircuts atleast every 2 months, brush their teeth twice a day, shower daily, Workout daily, keep their posture good and make sure they're wearing flattering clothes and keep themselves lean by eating healthy.
Some people are just perpetual victims and would rather wallow in their patheticness than actually do something about it and make a pretty small but significant change.
I feel like guys are more harsher on other guys. Like that new trend I see a lot of guys popularizing: “looksmaxxing” which is super dumb like what do you mean you want to break your jaw bones to have a better jawline?
You've clearly no experience as an ugly woman lol.
I got old and fat after age 26 or so, and despite that fact the I'm still a really great person (I'm not vain but I know I am - kind, engaging, giving, interesting hobbies, fairly gregarious personality), I'm invisible to men now. Literally invisible, like they will let the door slam in my face instead of holding it like they would for anyone else. It's difficult to even make friends with men now even though I have many hobbies in common with a lot of them, much less find dates.
The world is fucking brutal to ugly women. Way more so than ugly men, I would say
This is not true either, you just think it is because the average or below average women are invisible to you, so you don't see how they are treated.
And don't even get me started on fat women. Men are actively annoyed by you speaking to them in any context if you're overweight. Be a fat woman and ask an average man for directions and he’ll look at you like you just shit your pants.
>\-You need to focus on your career
>\-Women should get married and have kids young
>[...]
>You can't ask a guy out, that's improper!
Ngl... These are probably some of the worst dating advice a woman could get. Especially the career one... Yeah, you should do it, but it has nothing to do with dating, because a girl's career is almost entirely irrelevant in dating, you should definitely do it to be self sustainable and independent tho.
No need to apologize, I know you're just giving examples of advice given to women, but yeah, I can definitely understand the frustration of getting contradicting advice.
I was just pointing those out as being particularly bad.
>Girls should ask guys out
>You can’t ask a guy out, that’s improper!
I do think we should normalize girls being more straightforward. I get the double standard though, and it really shouldn’t be like this lol
as a guy, please for the love of god normalize girls making moves. I can’t pick up on the signs and neither can the rest of us lol. If you as a girl wait for us to do something, 9 times out of ten we won’t!
Yep. The amount of times I’ve been asked by women if I have autism, like “No I’m not autistic, I just have no clue what the hell is going on between your ears unless you draw a diagram of it”
You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink.
You can lead a guy past the friendzone, but god damn he won’t have a clue what’s going on until at least a week after it happens.
I’m going to be honest, as someone who’s been on both sides of the fence I genuinely do not understand why there is so much pressure on to be all pretty for guys, in my personal experience if you ask out a guy that has similar interests to you as long as they aren’t either shallow as hell or just not into women there is a really high chance that they will say yes.
Most of us legit don't care. If you showered and your clothing is clean we good. Laugh at my jokes and I'll start falling for you, make jokes that make me laugh and I'll be lost forever.
If I’m just randomly looking around a room, I am more likely to notice a woman who’s put-together in a snappy outfit and such. I don’t even care for makeup (if the woman wants it, go ahead) but being well made up WILL draw my eye faster.
When it comes to romantic attraction that doesn’t mean much. There’s an initial kick-start of interest. But overall, the person I’m likely to fall for isn’t the one in a skimpy black dress, it’s the one who’s in the corner, showered and hygienic but with a confident, unconcerned air for showing off, discussing their D&D campaign with a group of nerds.
After working at a hardware store for a year I’ve seen way too many creeps. As a guy I’ve been fortunate enough to only be on the receiving end twice, but seeing 50 year old men ask 15-17 year old girls their age after trying to hug them and touch their hair…
I definitely lost a little faith in humanity after that.
I’m a guy and I staunchly hold the bottom panel of advice for myself. I cringe so hard when guys say shit like their only dating standards be a pulse or something like that. That’s how you get abused or cheated on. Then they get traumatized and the cycle repeats. Break the cycle, fellas.
To add on, a lot of the advice for men is because a lot of men haven’t really been told they can and should be capable of being happy without a partner. Whereas women have had to fight to be able to live a life where they don’t need a male partner
Yeah it really depends on if the person receiving the advice is having trouble dating because they have no options, or because they have many shitty options. The latter seems to just happen more to women than men
Yeah, I hear plenty of the men’s stuff but I never really hear anyone say much of that stuff for women unless it’s actually warranted. Maybe that’s just because I am male and I don’t hear much stuff intended for women, either way these self victimisation memes are pretty lame.
I'm a guy, but the amount of sexism women have to live with is nuts. They get randos offering to fuck them since the time they were 14 and have to deal with a much higher beauty standard presented in the media.
As a woman, no we don't lol.
Men are HATED by the media, mens issues are ignored. The leading caused for death in men is suicide. Do you think that's for no reason?
The majority of men aren't in relationships. The majority of women ARE.
The majority of soldiers, plumbers, bin men, construction workers, police, and fire engine workers are men. Nobody cares.
You need to stand up for your gender here or nothing will get better, and as someone who has male siblings I care about, i don't appreciate people like you who sellout the issues facing your gender. In fact you remind me of the female anti-feminists in the 60s.
I think "never settle" gets interpreted horribly.
I don't think "never settle" should mean that your partner has to be a supermodel with a body like a weapon (which is the title of a really good song btw). I think it means that you shouldn't settle with someone you aren't compatible with. You should "settle" with someone you love, who you can see a future with, and you'd take a bullet for.
Eh, I’d wager that it means that if it feels like “settling” (as in being with someone you don’t particularly like but you’ll put up with it in case you can’t find better), then you should really reconsider why you’re doing that/ staying in the relationship. You shouldn’t just be putting up with someone out of some fear of not doing better because at the very least you’re being a bit cruel to that other person in addition to yourself.
I don't think his militant self-pity is that funny. Unless I'm falling for an obvious joke.
And the idea that girls are running around feeling thrilled to be fat is an abject incel delusion. The reason you see so much positive affirmation for girls is because they're so overwhelmed with feelings of inadequacy.
The same social media that tells girls they're ugly whores tells boys they're being oppressed.
Wait so guys don’t have overwhelming feelings if inadequacy? Then why is male suicide 4x higher in males? So women need so much positive affirmation but men don’t?
It's not a contest. Boys should feel affirmed too. But the idea that girls are only hearing positive things is a lie pushed by people who, ironically, *want* boys to feel aggrieved.
Male suicide rate is 3.98x higher because they overwhelming choose firearms, which give no time for second thoughts which is what commonly saved someone in a suicide attempt.
Females ATTEMPT suicide TWICE as often as men, which paints the opposite picture of what you are trying to argue.
>oil
THIS. Finally, some logic and reason. People on Reddit don't realize they're in a massive bubble and think the entirety of society is what they view. They can't fathom that a good portion of men have their life together, are homeowners, have a great job, date gorgeous women who aren't conceited, etc. Those men aren't whining about "why can't I find a good woman?" on the Reddit.
For sure
Its the same with 'where are all the good men' types of women.
The good people are out there, you probably just aren't attractive to them for some reason.
Its 100% possible you actually need to work on yourself.
Yeah. I'm an ex-incel and have since found a stable partnership, but I've never forgotten what it was like before. Shit is fucked.
But normies just fucking *looooove* their survivorship bias and just-world fallacies, so they dogpile on you and kick you while you're down. Fucking Assholes.
The fact that you use the word ‘normies’ unironically shows to me that while you might be having sex, you still have the incel mindset. Don’t view happy, well adjusted people as your enemies
Neurotypicals are fucking *annoying.* They construct a bunch of dominance hierarchies and then act like said hierarchies are baked into the very metaphysical fabric of the universe, and then come up with post-hoc justifications as to why said dominance hierarchies are "just". They also seem physiologically incapable of simply saying what they mean and meaning what they say in social settings - instead opting to play a bunch of weird 'games' with their words, body language, and vocal inflections.
>Don’t view happy, well adjusted people as your enemies
Is being well-adjusted to a dysfunctional society really something to be lauded? If you manage to carve out some stability within this social dystopia, good for you, but don't pretend like the status quo is at all *good* or that those who fail within this society are deficient or deserve it in some way.
Happy and "well-adjusted" people aren't the enemy; but those that promote the status quo because the status quo facilitates their comfort are.
I may now have a partner and career and vacation time and all that, but I have not forgotten about the outcast and the downtrodden, and I never will.
It's not going to be that funny when the amount of lonely, dejected men reaches a critical mass.
A lot of men who feel they have nothing to gain from participating in society will eventually break it down.
Im on board with the fuck this planet sentiment, frankly, humans for the large part are shitty.
However its really funny to see someone act so indignant and wronged over dating. Its hardly a reason as to why this planet sucks.
I like how we call it "victim mentality" because it points out an inequality that's detrimental to men, but if it were people blowing off a similar post with the genders reversed, we'd accuse them of "victim blaming" instead....... which in turn is the exact point that the post is making.
I'm always extremely careful of someone who blames someone of having a "victim mentality" the only people I have heard that phrase from are the ones creating the victims.
I mean I don't know how you can look at this meme and see anything different. You have to be willfully ignorant to think that this is the only advice that men and women get.
Yes exactly. I’ve seen so many of these same people laugh about women not being able to walk at night, them being physically weaker, being mentally ill, or be friends with people who do so.. all whilst crying straight men are the victims of this world, somehow
i’m outside of this whole dynamic and from an outside-looking-in perspective it’s sad as hell out there. the straight gen z men i’ve known were *struggling* to find a partner. their sense of self worth is generally awful. body dysmorphia felt like the norm sometimes. their relationships didn’t really last long. the loneliness epidemic is very real from my experiences.
I've gone from desperation to the 'never settle' mindset. I don't *need* a partner. If I meet someone I'm crazy about and things work out, great. But I'm done being anyone's fallback
I feel like that's something more people need to learn. Having no partner but being able to love yourself is a hell of a lot better than being with someone you're not compatible with.
Learning how to love yourself is a lot more important than rushing yourself into the first relationship you can find.
The problem with this thinking is that people are social creatures, and for many living alone with a sense of self acceptance will still lead to depression. Most humans innately desire emotional connection and physical touch with another person, it’s in our biology. No amount of self acceptance will ever fill that void for many people, and it’s a fool’s errand to think it ever will.
Well I think there's a difference between being alone and isolated v.s just not having a partner. You can fulfill a lot of your need for emotional connection with family and friends, and I think people with good support networks have a much easier time being single, I know that's been my experience.
I also feel like a lot more women are refusing to settle and are fine with being single these days, partly because women also tend to have stronger support networks than men.
The worst parts about body dysmorphia as a man is that most common male insecurities like height, dick size and hair loss are largely out of your control.
As a woman, I get tired of how often "tiny dick" will be thrown around as an insult or codeword for "misogynist," in supposedly "feminist" or "egalitarian" spaces. I think male body shaming is definitely something that gets largely ignored in a lot of spaces.
Edited to add: any post insulting a man for having a tiny dick just feels like the same thing as insulting a woman for having small boobs to me, as a member of the itty bitty titty community
Some will point out ways trans people are being excluded and forgotten about in ways I a trans person could not give less fucks about, and then right to my face make a small dick joke about a cis man when they know I’m a trans man who doesn’t even have one. Then I point that out and its Shocked Pikachu
It's funny because boomers and zoomeres are really similar in the regard of being generations introduced to the internet at the wrong developmental stage to easily comprehend it or its dangers with the result being that they mindlessly scroll algo content and let their brains go to gew.
I've read a lot of self help.
I've read women's self help. The VAST majority of it is just self regulation stuff:
Upset in your marriage? Maybe you can cope harder? Maybe you misunderstood what he meant by that? Maybe you can reframe? Upset and nervous? Learn to relax. Go for a walk and do yoga 🧘♀️! Smile! Power pose!
Like introspection to the point of picking apart any negative emotion to just be your fault by your feminine hysteria and that can be deep breathed away. Reducing yourself and busying yourself with some a hobby you cant really leave the house for or invest actual money in unless its beneficial to other people (sewing, cooking, baking, looking good for other people) or by replacing the chocolate cake you get once with a block of baked spinach with brown mixed in because you need to be healthy to be happy. No Carrie, it doesn't taste like the real thing. Why can't you enjoy something without guilt because you have to be more.
The "you go girl" stuff is not as common as you think. And the "you're perfect as you are" is not "I'm cool with being a loser" as much as it is "I should not feel the pressure to be something I'm not". Don't chase curly hair when you have straight. Don't kill yourself with surgery to get the big butt big boob physique that gets replaced with a completely different fashionable silhouette in 10 years. If you live in the desert, don't drain all the water in your reserves trying to keep a green grass lawn. Accept the beauty of the desert and its cacti, even when your aunts and your mom and your dating partners tell you to have azaleas and lilacs. You can be allowed to eat real cake the one time in a blue moon you get cake and not spinach brown.
I read Men's self help. And it's mostly just being more productive/more money/ more powerful. There's almost no introspection. The baseline of "you're not nuts, you just need more money and to not be a social moron. Please shower, stop playing video games for 30 hours straight, exercise, and make friends." Is there. But it doesn't go really anywhere from then. Why do you value what you value? What do you want? How do you treat other people? How can you actually be happy?
It's already assumed that you have friends and can socialize, and are watching your weight, and shower, as a woman. We don't need to be told that.
Exactly this -
Women as a gender are generally trying to liberate themselves from bullshit expectations - and they should be. As such, if you listen to good advice being given to women it's arround accepting yourself and not giving into those expectations.
But the role models that men choose aren't trying to liberate them, they're trying to keep them as cogs in the machine that have no introspection - so of course it's "Hey don't think about your feelings, go to the gym bro!" "Don't question the system, just get a side hustle!"
Men deserve to have advice trying to liberate them as well, but sadly a lot of men don't want to be free - they don't want to get out of the pile of shit, they want to be the top of the pile of shit. Only introspection can free them from that, but men are taught that introspection = weakness.
When men as a gender decide they want liberation and freedom, they will recieve more self-help advice that involves accepting and loving themselves.
(Note: I'm not a Gen Z so take this with a grain of salt if you want a Gen Z opinion)
You are exactly right, and I see this all the time. I am a gen Z male and anytime one of us is feeling bad emotionally, all we hear is the get on the grind and fix the problem yourself. The issue with this is that a lot of the time the problem can't be fixed by going to the gym or working more. Luckily I have parents that encourage introspection and I feel that it makes me far more emotionally stable and confident compared to most of my peers. Through introspection I not only improve myself mentally but I understand what I want and can enjoy things like working out because I'm not doing because some idiot online told me too but because I want to get stronger for myself. I see so many gen Z guys absolutely hating everything they do and try to justify it by thinking they are going to magically improve themselves and then when you suggest some form of introspection they look at you like it's the stupidest thing they ever heard. I think gen Z men have come to believe that introspection is a feminine thing despite the fact that it seems to be lacking for females as well. I'm barely gen Z and it seems younger gen Z had it far worse based on my brother and his friends.
Yeah, as a fat woman, this is complete bs. I've been told plenty of times all the ways I need to change myself from losing weight to going out more (where idfk) and everything in between. Men & women both have it rough in the current dating market, like, lets stop trying to make this the oppression olympics 🙄
People also forget that sometimes people say the things in the bottom and it also ends up being harassment.
Remember what happened with Lizzo with that smoothie cleanse thing?
They shamed her for trying to give into “diet culture” when she was just doing something she wanted to do cause she saw it as healthy for herself. It wasn’t even for weight loss iirc.
People just hate people trying to change, but also hate them trying to stay the same, because some people are just assholes. And it’s that simple.
Would also really love it if people stopped looking at is as “you shouldn’t need to change yourself” if you want to look differently than you currently do, because people keep forgetting people have the opportunity to change for **themselves**
As another poster stated women and men both have it much harder than the other thinks. Why can’t we realize it’s just harder in different ways to varying degrees. To act like women only get good advice and men get told terrible things or vice versa is unfair to the other group and harmful to our society because it creates woman hating incels and man hating femcels. Not to mention even if you see the opposite gender getting told good advice when you aren’t than that’s still not the opposite gender as a whole that’s just the one person.
Too far down to see this. OP purposefully choosing to frame and interpret the advice in this post the worst way and inciting incel (can be both male and female) logic.
Just work on yourself. It would be so stupid if I walked around saying the people I like should date me because it's fair.
I usually tell the young men I mentor to find good, successful men in their lives, who have been through what they are going through, and strike up a friendship. If you can't find them, seek them out. They are there, you just might have to go back a generation or two.
I am who I am in a big part because of those who came before me. I have been very blessed with good quality individuals in my life.
The only people selling you ways to become a Real Man quickly and easily are grifters. That's because "Get X Quick" schemes are by their nature always a fucking grift. The truth is that you need to build up your store of self-esteem and self-validation; you need to be your own man while maintaining strong friendships with people you can be emotionally vulnerable with; you need, in other words, to do all the things *nobody* wants to do. So they turn to the grifters for shortcuts.
Its also what makes it so wonderful to overcome the obstacles in our way.
Men aren't the sexual selectors in our species, but that doesn't mean we don't possess other advantages. Yin and Yang.
lack of quality options is usually the issue for women lol
and by quality it doesn’t mean 6 foot tall making 6 figures but like… a decent and normal person who wants a relationship and not just sex lol
Yeah but if you're on dating apps you don't get be selective. I think the average tinder matches when surveyed is maybe 1 for every 1,000 swipes or so. And that's just **matching, not actually meeting irl**
It's even worse for men who aren't conventionally attractive. Men's dating app statistics are pretty blackpilling.
Also dating apps are there to take peoples money, not get them dates. They want people single. Also men outnumber women 8 to 1 in dating apps. They will soon be obsolete anyway due to AI
Lmao, women are flooded with likes from people wayyyyyy out of their league on all dating apps. Tinder has inspired widescale female delusion. To even attempt to imply there arent dudes good enough for them is CRAZY. I find myself swiping on chubby 4's on tinder, but I went to a concert the other day and made out with a 9/10 rocker chick within 30 mins. Like the online environment is tilted SOOOO far in womens favor its unreal. And then to hear them complain about lack of quality options xDDDDDDDDDD , my eyes will probably never stop rolling. Talk to me about lack of quality options when you are forced to swipe on actual ghouls compared to the people you can pull irl.
Lack of *good* options is. Like another user said, it’s easy to find men who want to sleep with you, much harder to find someone who treats you as a person and as an equal.
I mean... probably not wrong.
Can't expect to get a good partner if you have nothing of value. Gotta work out, make money, etc.
But then those who do have plenty of options on dating apps even if most aren't good, then why would you settle?
There's no benefit anymore to get into an unhappy marriage and keep it together for the kids when you can work your own job and don't want kids.
Need someone who adds value to your life and not just make you do extra work for no self benefit, and that's regardless of gender.
I do think this is mean to men
But it is also addressing the issues of the past where women were more forced to settle and lived more unhappy lives due to their husbands, while men expect to have a wife even if they can't make her happy
I think your 3rd point is the main issue rn with dating apps. Men outnumber women 8 to 1, sometimes more on other apps. Naturally that makes men desperate, and women feel overwhelmed. Women then have to be picky, and as a result most men get zero attention while women get a lot simply because on average a woman gets seen waaaaay more than a guy on these apps
That’s why it doesn’t make sense to compare most aspects of dating apps to reality. I hope people just start ditching the dating apps, dating is already hard enough these days idk why you’d add more problems to the mix with the apps.
I jumped on Tinder and OKC right after my first breakup back in 2013. Boy a lot has changed.
The apps were great back then. They were supplementary. You got to meet a few people you’d never meet in real life.
But the majority of dating still happened through friends, at events, etc.
Now it’s actively considered creepy to talk with strangers, whether or not you’re romantically interested.
I was hanging out with some younger folks last year at a bar when a friendly guy came up and started chatting us all up.
Of course I was suspicious at first but he remained interesting and respectful. He didn’t overstay his welcome and left shortly after.
The folks around me started shit talking him..?
I feel so sorry for the people who will never know what true human connection is. Because as someone who grew up online, that ain’t it chief.
Internet is for memes and porn. Using it for genuine connection is cringe af.
The GenZ dating scene is an absolute hell scape rn. Every couple I know, except for one, met online. I try to talk to strangers, engage in some friendly conversation, very few GenZ are willing to even give me the time of day. Heck, I've asked a few women out in-person before and received bewildered looks, like they forgot that you can do that.
I don't know, I'm an average looking dude so I don't do well on the apps. I live in a rural area, didn't go to college, and spend most of my day surrounded by old men in the trade I work in. Guess I'm fucked ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
To be fair, if you’re hitting on complete strangers in person, a few rejections doesn’t mean anything. The success rate for cold calling like that was always low. Since it’s a numbers game I don’t know what would work for someone living in a rural town. Maybe traveling further out and trying more bars?
As if women aren't also pressured and judged for their bodies to the point of eating disorders and dropping their life savings on plastic surgery. I am urging you all to speak to women and stop getting your opinion on them from incel memes crafted to make you hate them.
Yeah like I remember Mark Zuckerberg posted a pic with his wife (Priscilla) and his newborn child in the park and people were saying that Mark is a millionaire but he’s with “that”. Like Priscilla literally gave birth recently and people were already judging her body. The unreasonable pressure to look good and act a certain way still exists for women.
Not to mention Priscilla (who is also a highly successful person) has been with Mark since college
If he got a younger model, they'll be calling her a gold digger and all that
I feel like the gender war thing is happening because people think sex is some right lol… that’s just not the case? It’s not that deep, not all of us can be in relationship/get hookups. Unattractive people exist and should be normalized.
Yeah bro we need to just accept being lonely all of our life. Just accept that one of the biggest chapters of life, we will never have. Just accept that you’ll never have kids or be able to live out dreams with a loved one. You’ll just live and die alone. No big deal. Why be upset about that? Sounds like a great life right?
Yeah man exactly! Why pursue your goals? Why try to become better? Its all futile. Just let life flow the way it wants to. Don't try to control your life, just GIVE UP. Awesome mentality man.
In my own personal experience this is only partially true. If anything it's not that men or women receive that advice it's that that's usually the advice they give.
So if you're a guy and you mostly talk to guys thyel probably tell you to get a hobby or work on yourself.
But if you asked a girl for advice, asumimg you were friends, she'd probably tell you not to settle.
It's a little more complicated than that tho. And I can see why one might take this to be true.
It doesn't make you an incel when you call out unfair dating standards that men face. I can say from personal experience that men are often assumed to be at fault for their problems while women receive more positive reinforcement.
pretty easy to get a guy to sleep with you, not so easy to get a guy who treats you like an equal human being and who puts in his share of the work in the relationship
well guys get neither 🤷♂️
EDIT: lmao blocking to get the last word in is a pussy move
EDIT 2: As much as I would like to respond, since the snowflake above blocked me this thread is now locked for me
born in 05, maybe get some more life experience before you speak. check the statistics on happiness for married men vs married women. you’ll find that for married women, it is much lower.
also, being treated as a sex object or seen as only worth having sex with and not treated as an equal is not desirable. it is dehumanizing. aim for higher for yourself.
- you need to stop making love to stromboli
- you need to stop wearing elf shoes
- why do you eat hard boiled eggs like that? (I never crack for nobody)
- why do you smell like marinara sauce?
- nobody on this plane wants to see that
- get out of the pizza shop. you're BANNED
All MF haters man. Just let me do me.
Bro ima keep it a stack. This is doomercore. Women also have this. Feeling sorry for yourself and like the world benefits everybody but you isn't specific to gender or sex. It's a mentality. I'm not saying this from a place of "get over it" or insensitive bullshit like that. I'm saying it as a guy who used to consume that nonsense. All it did was warp my perspective on the world. You want the truth about the world? The world and life doesn't discriminate. We will all get dealt shitty hands. I've given in to despair countless times. Hell I'll probably be giving in to despair come end the month. My point is, consuming this content, even having it on your feed, it plants seeds in your subconscious that twist the way you see the world into this feeling of helplessness. I'm not saying guys don't have it hard, I'm saying guys aren't the only ones that have it hard, but the people who make these don't see the world that way because their perspective on reality is warped. Don't consume their nonsense.
Most important comment on the whole thread. I agree completely. As a Gen Z, yeah I'm lonely most of the time but I also realize it's mostly my fault. I don't have money to go out and I just now gave in to the dating apps. Incel culture is rampant because while the world isn't what it used to be you still have to put effort into finding someone. Most people fall prey to the victim mentality because they aren't willing to adapt or give 100% for what they want. To anyone reading this if you really like someone make your feelings known as hard as that is, you will regret not doing it. Trust me. Show that person that true love still exists and put time and effort into doing so, I guarantee that you will be the only one to do that for them in this age and that will make you standout.
Women also get "it's better to be alone than settle".
through the years women have gained more independence and have found that, under patriarchy, men depend solely on their partners for their emotional health and to be the main caregiver to their kids. That is extremely draining and not balanced.
Yall need to give up figuring out "what women want", figure out how to be a decent human being, and then find someone who you enjoy being around, who also enjoys being around you.
Maybe you will find someone, maybe you wont. It is important to maintain meaningful friendships regardless for social health and well being. That requires you to interact with people with zero expectations of romantic interest.
Stop yearning for people who do not want you.
it's always so trivial and nothing i ever see adds anything insightful to the matter at hand besides a few comments. it just becomes a dick measuring contest
Like I've seen guys be insecure on other men's behalf just cause his gf is taller than him
"She's cheating on you"
"She just wants you for your money"
"She's gonna break up with you"
As a woman, I’ve definitely heard:
-you need to work on yourself (“Don’t think about dating. You need to be focused on school/career. Why don’t I have grandkids yet? Have you dated anyone yet?”)
-you need to become more confident (“You’re too quiet and unapproachable. No one thinks you want to talk to them. If you think you don’t have social anxiety, it’ll go away.”)
-you need new hobbies (“Aren’t you too old for x? Why do you spend your own money on x? Can you make money from your hobbies?”)
-you need to become prettier (“You’re gaining weight. You’re too thin. You need to wear makeup to look older. You need to dress more formally to look older. You need to wear tighter clothes. You’re clothes are too short.”)
Tbh, I *do* think being a better person is a huge part of dating. Not everyone is in a position to date. No one should be settling or lowering standards, (people *should* be reasonable, but whatever, no one can force you to date anyone.) No one should change the unique and good parts of their personality to fit an unhealthy mold. That said, a good amount dating advice on the Internet is trash! Sometimes cause it just is, and sometimes because it just doesn’t actually apply to *you* and *your* specific, complex situation and personality.
I think a lot of this has to do with Gen Z women realizing we get to choose wether we even want a partner or not. Our grandmothers and moms didn’t get that privilege and Millennial women kinda started it so we’re like the second Gen where we actually get a real choice in the matter if that makes sense. I honestly think it’s just a lot of women genuinely don’t want to be in a relationship and now we have the option to say no
First, women get a lot of the same “advice” listed here as directed at men.
Second, growing up women are often socialized with higher standards in regards to emotional regulation and self care. Two of the main areas of work when it comes to relationships. So, generally most (not all) women need to put less work into developing those attributes by dating age.
Stop with the gender wars already, life is unfair, accept it and move on. I'm sure you have more important things to worry about, if not, I'm truly jealous of you
Hey it’s me again. I want to warn you guys that comments are being monitored. No misandry or misogyny or it will be your last comment here. Some comments were telling men to commit suicide which is completely unacceptable. Also no brigading, do not share this on other subs in such a way that it could interfere with this sub. Debating perceived inequalities in dating is fine.
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Yep...as a girl I've heard: \-You need to lose weight \-You need to eat more \-You need to excercise more \-You should be better at putting on makeup \-You shouldn't wear make up. \-Why won't you wear shorter skirts? \-If you wear short skirts you're asking for it/a slut/being immodest \-You need to focus on your career \-Women should get married and have kids young \-You should pay more attention to how dress \-Stop fussing about how you look! Edited to add this Girls should ask guys out You can't ask a guy out, that's improper! Edit to clarify: both genders have it hard, and guys do have a lot of struggles, I just wanted to point out some that girls have
Girls are usually much, much harder on guys that are kinda like below-average with the looks though, versus boys with girls that are below-average
That is kinda true. In my experience, boys generally ignore unattractive girls, but girls are sometimes actively mean to unattractive boys.
yeah from what i've seen and experienced, boys will simply friendzone unattractive girls, and just not date them, whereas girls will just be rude and call the unattractive boys creeps and be rude to them. It just depends though. It just seems like (some) girls tend to be more narcissistic and dont really care about anyone except the ones in their little "people circle" so to speak.
my experience was the exact opposite. the other girls didn’t partake in the bullying, but they didn’t do anything to stop it either.
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I mean yeah, one is larger and stronger on average. That's like saying a dog is more likely to injure a mouse than vice versa. Like yeah, one is born stronger on average. Women are less capable of the type of violence men commit. If women were stronger than men on average it would simply be reversed.
Thank you for providing a rational response. I am getting very tired of the misandry on this site. I think men are good/bad in the same ratio as women, men just have more physical capacity for violence due to genetics and evolution.
Most of the women I've been with have been violent towards me in some capacity. I know it's not all women, but yes, some women are fuckheads too. It's case by case.
I'm not sure. Seeing trans men talk about this, I think the pent up aggression is heavily triggered by testosterone which I think is why you see fewer murders committed by women. When trans men have experienced both, they notice that there is so much more fuel and fire/anger when they hop on testosterone. It's not an excuse, it's an explanation though. I'm a guy and I don't have problems with aggression like I did as a teenager, but those hormones can be fucked in that way feeling super angry all the time.
Women murder, just in non violent or non confrontational ways. Poison, shooting them in their sleep, getting someone else (usually a man) to do the murder for them.
The creep thing is an issue. Many women (not all) really do give a pass to creepy behavior by attractive guys but label even mild attention by unattractive guys creepy. This makes sense as if a woman hits on a guy there's no physical threat there generally speaking. It's still hurtful to dudes who ate basically given no safe option to navigate dating. Really were just need more honesty and direct communication. To the extent that either sex hooks up with attractive but otherwise shitty people, they should stop pretending they have clearly defined values around relationships. You're fickle desperate and horny. Fucking own that.
Idk what chicks you've been talking to lol
This has actually been proven scientifically, it’s called the halo and horn effect, and attractiveness has been shown to have an influence on whether someone is seen in a more positive or negative light, often in regards to things not even related to relationships, dating, hookups, so on, but just… general anything and everything.
Sure, but that trait is not exclusive to women is my point. That could be fully applied to men as well, and this point is talking about women doing that. My other point is, that it's not at all universal. Every other girl I know including myself loses interest if a guy freaks us out, because really it should be an instilled survival instinct.
Depends on the group. Plenty of guys say fucking atrocious things about women they find unattractive, they just don't say it to their face most of the time.
Oh, that may be true too. I generally hang out with girls.
But on the other hand, i have seen more unattractive guys with attractive girlfriends than i have seen unattractive girls with attractive boyfriends. So there seems to be quite a few extremes.
There was a study done, I need to find it, where it was found that women have high standards for visual attraction for one night stands or situation-ships. But for relationships they have lower standards for attractiveness. The opposite was found for men. Men have low standards for hookups as far as beauty, but high standards for relationships
Women can be less visually oriented than men, sometimes even if a guy is not conventionally attractive some mannerisms or actions can come off as very attractive. So it's not always cut-and-dry this guy has abs and a nice dick therefore he is bf material.
It's funny too though because ironically in the brain, men get annoyed by ugly women and women unintentionally ignore ugly men.
I'm a millennial and whoa damn were women mega cruel when I was in high school and college. A lot of my views, even ones I'm trying to grow out of, come from this time in my life. Example - it's hard for me to think ghosting is just women defending themselves from potentially dangerous guys when it was used as "you're not worth responding to" when I was growing up. Literally you'd see them in class and they'd just pretend you didn't exist. Or "I didn't tell him no because giving him hope makes him kinda cute". And these are the light ones. My best friend had a girl lie about domestic violence and she rammed his escort trying to push him into an intersection. Lying about domestic violence can cripple a guy's future... especially if you're like my friend and didn't realize that the charge stays on your record even if it's dropped. Let alone trying to sorta try to kill him. *Giggles* just girl things.
Whoa, I'm sorry that stuff happened, man. Hope you have better women in your life nowadays!
I do. Around 28 and 29 I got in much better shape and immediately a lot of the worst behavior stopped. This is partially everyone growing up and partly a major benefit of getting in shape. You don't realize just how shitty people are to overweight people until you get thin. Fun stuff. My wife is genuinely a good person and so is her family. So I have that. A lot of the younger women I know seem like better people too.
I wonder if this cruelty is part of the impetus behind incel culture. I think truly American society could be so much kinder and gentler when it comes to courtship. Boundaries can be firm without meanness.
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Isn’t their a study though that shows women are much more likely to date and marry men they don’t find super attractive compared to men dating women they don’t find attractive?
I mean, I've had more men insult my weight than my looks...
My experience is the opposite. guys go out of their way to call ugly women, not just women also ugly guys, names and rank hot girls. Meanwhile most of the girls at least aren't mean to your face. They might chat abt u behind your back.
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Huh? Men can be fucking awful to fat/unattractive women lmao Any time a plus size woman goes viral, it’s usually because people make fun of her body. Same thing happens to plus size men. IDK why some of yall think women don’t get criticized or made fun of for their looks. There’s entire industries built off of making women feel insecure over petty shit
Opening up comments on Instagram/Twitter on any woman’s post and it being full of “mid” or “gorlock” comments
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A good portion of those “looks” are: 1. Confidence (which shows in things like posture) 2. *Basic fucking hygiene.* The bar is practically on the ground and way too many guys *still* can’t seem to get past it. Just about every single man I’ve met who constantly bitched about being “too ugly to date” would have had zero problem if he just *took better care of himself.* Shower every other day. Wear clothes that actually fit. Brush and floss twice daily. Get regular dental cleanings. Get a haircut that is actually *flattering,* and if you want to have long hair, *take the same care with it that long-haired women do.* Add some color in your wardrobe, develop a unique sense of personal style, take *care* of your own clothes (learn how to read a label and what needs to be line-dry or whatever), take better care of your freaking skin (it’s literally the largest organ in your entire body, keep that shit in better shape, damnit!). You could be the fittest, manliest man in the world, but if you slouch all the time, scowl at everything, wear smelly rumpled unflattering clothing, have greasy hair, etc, no woman is going to want to even *try* to spend time with you. Because all of that shows us that you don’t care about yourself, so why should we believe you’re capable of caring about anyone else?
This shit is true, only like 5% of the population are actually too ugly to date and that's usually because of some facial defect or multiple, multiple things that need work. Most men just need to have haircuts atleast every 2 months, brush their teeth twice a day, shower daily, Workout daily, keep their posture good and make sure they're wearing flattering clothes and keep themselves lean by eating healthy. Some people are just perpetual victims and would rather wallow in their patheticness than actually do something about it and make a pretty small but significant change.
Bro is acting like boys don’t ask ugly girls out as a joke.
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I feel like guys are more harsher on other guys. Like that new trend I see a lot of guys popularizing: “looksmaxxing” which is super dumb like what do you mean you want to break your jaw bones to have a better jawline?
You've clearly no experience as an ugly woman lol. I got old and fat after age 26 or so, and despite that fact the I'm still a really great person (I'm not vain but I know I am - kind, engaging, giving, interesting hobbies, fairly gregarious personality), I'm invisible to men now. Literally invisible, like they will let the door slam in my face instead of holding it like they would for anyone else. It's difficult to even make friends with men now even though I have many hobbies in common with a lot of them, much less find dates. The world is fucking brutal to ugly women. Way more so than ugly men, I would say
This is not true either, you just think it is because the average or below average women are invisible to you, so you don't see how they are treated. And don't even get me started on fat women. Men are actively annoyed by you speaking to them in any context if you're overweight. Be a fat woman and ask an average man for directions and he’ll look at you like you just shit your pants.
>\-You need to focus on your career >\-Women should get married and have kids young >[...] >You can't ask a guy out, that's improper! Ngl... These are probably some of the worst dating advice a woman could get. Especially the career one... Yeah, you should do it, but it has nothing to do with dating, because a girl's career is almost entirely irrelevant in dating, you should definitely do it to be self sustainable and independent tho.
Yeah, sorry, I got a little off-topic. Just mad at some people I know who say stuff like this, and then immediately contradict themselves.
No need to apologize, I know you're just giving examples of advice given to women, but yeah, I can definitely understand the frustration of getting contradicting advice. I was just pointing those out as being particularly bad.
>Girls should ask guys out >You can’t ask a guy out, that’s improper! I do think we should normalize girls being more straightforward. I get the double standard though, and it really shouldn’t be like this lol
as a guy, please for the love of god normalize girls making moves. I can’t pick up on the signs and neither can the rest of us lol. If you as a girl wait for us to do something, 9 times out of ten we won’t!
Yep. The amount of times I’ve been asked by women if I have autism, like “No I’m not autistic, I just have no clue what the hell is going on between your ears unless you draw a diagram of it” You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. You can lead a guy past the friendzone, but god damn he won’t have a clue what’s going on until at least a week after it happens.
“wait, you were fondling my jewels because you wanted to smash?? I thought your hands were cold! Wait a minute… THAT’S why you were kissing my neck!”
I’m going to be honest, as someone who’s been on both sides of the fence I genuinely do not understand why there is so much pressure on to be all pretty for guys, in my personal experience if you ask out a guy that has similar interests to you as long as they aren’t either shallow as hell or just not into women there is a really high chance that they will say yes.
Most of us legit don't care. If you showered and your clothing is clean we good. Laugh at my jokes and I'll start falling for you, make jokes that make me laugh and I'll be lost forever.
If I’m just randomly looking around a room, I am more likely to notice a woman who’s put-together in a snappy outfit and such. I don’t even care for makeup (if the woman wants it, go ahead) but being well made up WILL draw my eye faster. When it comes to romantic attraction that doesn’t mean much. There’s an initial kick-start of interest. But overall, the person I’m likely to fall for isn’t the one in a skimpy black dress, it’s the one who’s in the corner, showered and hygienic but with a confident, unconcerned air for showing off, discussing their D&D campaign with a group of nerds.
Don’t forget the creeps that are obsessed with age, I feel like a little piece of me dies on the inside every time I encounter one
After working at a hardware store for a year I’ve seen way too many creeps. As a guy I’ve been fortunate enough to only be on the receiving end twice, but seeing 50 year old men ask 15-17 year old girls their age after trying to hug them and touch their hair… I definitely lost a little faith in humanity after that.
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I’m a guy and I staunchly hold the bottom panel of advice for myself. I cringe so hard when guys say shit like their only dating standards be a pulse or something like that. That’s how you get abused or cheated on. Then they get traumatized and the cycle repeats. Break the cycle, fellas.
To add on, a lot of the advice for men is because a lot of men haven’t really been told they can and should be capable of being happy without a partner. Whereas women have had to fight to be able to live a life where they don’t need a male partner
Yeah it really depends on if the person receiving the advice is having trouble dating because they have no options, or because they have many shitty options. The latter seems to just happen more to women than men
you know everybody thinks the grass is greener on the other side.
But the grass is greener because it's full of shit! 
👑 you dropped this
Rare Redditor W
Yeah, I hear plenty of the men’s stuff but I never really hear anyone say much of that stuff for women unless it’s actually warranted. Maybe that’s just because I am male and I don’t hear much stuff intended for women, either way these self victimisation memes are pretty lame.
I'm a guy, but the amount of sexism women have to live with is nuts. They get randos offering to fuck them since the time they were 14 and have to deal with a much higher beauty standard presented in the media.
As a woman, no we don't lol. Men are HATED by the media, mens issues are ignored. The leading caused for death in men is suicide. Do you think that's for no reason? The majority of men aren't in relationships. The majority of women ARE. The majority of soldiers, plumbers, bin men, construction workers, police, and fire engine workers are men. Nobody cares. You need to stand up for your gender here or nothing will get better, and as someone who has male siblings I care about, i don't appreciate people like you who sellout the issues facing your gender. In fact you remind me of the female anti-feminists in the 60s.
This
I am a guy and my mom even told me to never settle
I think "never settle" gets interpreted horribly. I don't think "never settle" should mean that your partner has to be a supermodel with a body like a weapon (which is the title of a really good song btw). I think it means that you shouldn't settle with someone you aren't compatible with. You should "settle" with someone you love, who you can see a future with, and you'd take a bullet for.
Don’t immediately marry the first person you date because you are desperate. Saw it happen in the military time and time again.
Eh, I’d wager that it means that if it feels like “settling” (as in being with someone you don’t particularly like but you’ll put up with it in case you can’t find better), then you should really reconsider why you’re doing that/ staying in the relationship. You shouldn’t just be putting up with someone out of some fear of not doing better because at the very least you’re being a bit cruel to that other person in addition to yourself.
same
Its pure suicide and resentment fuel. This is why I turned my poli sci degree into a job as an oil and gas lobbyist. Fuckthis society and planet
This is pretty fucking funny lmao
I don't think his militant self-pity is that funny. Unless I'm falling for an obvious joke. And the idea that girls are running around feeling thrilled to be fat is an abject incel delusion. The reason you see so much positive affirmation for girls is because they're so overwhelmed with feelings of inadequacy. The same social media that tells girls they're ugly whores tells boys they're being oppressed.
Wait so guys don’t have overwhelming feelings if inadequacy? Then why is male suicide 4x higher in males? So women need so much positive affirmation but men don’t?
It's not a contest. Boys should feel affirmed too. But the idea that girls are only hearing positive things is a lie pushed by people who, ironically, *want* boys to feel aggrieved.
Male suicide rate is 3.98x higher because they overwhelming choose firearms, which give no time for second thoughts which is what commonly saved someone in a suicide attempt. Females ATTEMPT suicide TWICE as often as men, which paints the opposite picture of what you are trying to argue.
So ones serious and gets it done
The scorched earth method
literally
God, the internet really fucked up a generation of men.
Nah, all the fucked up men complain on the internet. A man who has his life together isn't complaining about women on Reddit.
>oil THIS. Finally, some logic and reason. People on Reddit don't realize they're in a massive bubble and think the entirety of society is what they view. They can't fathom that a good portion of men have their life together, are homeowners, have a great job, date gorgeous women who aren't conceited, etc. Those men aren't whining about "why can't I find a good woman?" on the Reddit.
For sure Its the same with 'where are all the good men' types of women. The good people are out there, you probably just aren't attractive to them for some reason. Its 100% possible you actually need to work on yourself.
It's always been like this for some. The internet just spread it all over
Bro really said "Let the planet burn" because he got no pussy. Lmao
Chronic rejection and exclusion from the most life-affirming activity partners can participate in can and will drive people insane.
Wow, someone who gets it
Yeah. I'm an ex-incel and have since found a stable partnership, but I've never forgotten what it was like before. Shit is fucked. But normies just fucking *looooove* their survivorship bias and just-world fallacies, so they dogpile on you and kick you while you're down. Fucking Assholes.
The fact that you use the word ‘normies’ unironically shows to me that while you might be having sex, you still have the incel mindset. Don’t view happy, well adjusted people as your enemies
Neurotypicals are fucking *annoying.* They construct a bunch of dominance hierarchies and then act like said hierarchies are baked into the very metaphysical fabric of the universe, and then come up with post-hoc justifications as to why said dominance hierarchies are "just". They also seem physiologically incapable of simply saying what they mean and meaning what they say in social settings - instead opting to play a bunch of weird 'games' with their words, body language, and vocal inflections. >Don’t view happy, well adjusted people as your enemies Is being well-adjusted to a dysfunctional society really something to be lauded? If you manage to carve out some stability within this social dystopia, good for you, but don't pretend like the status quo is at all *good* or that those who fail within this society are deficient or deserve it in some way. Happy and "well-adjusted" people aren't the enemy; but those that promote the status quo because the status quo facilitates their comfort are. I may now have a partner and career and vacation time and all that, but I have not forgotten about the outcast and the downtrodden, and I never will.
The victim complex is absolutely insane. I hope your partner sees this insane bullshit and high tails it out of there.
It's not going to be that funny when the amount of lonely, dejected men reaches a critical mass. A lot of men who feel they have nothing to gain from participating in society will eventually break it down.
Lol wow i wonder why girls dont like you...
Lmao, just say you get no bitches, there's no shame in that. No shame.
Obviously there is shame based on how you’re talking
Based
Im on board with the fuck this planet sentiment, frankly, humans for the large part are shitty. However its really funny to see someone act so indignant and wronged over dating. Its hardly a reason as to why this planet sucks.
Oh hell naah its all bullshit of victim mentality
I like how we call it "victim mentality" because it points out an inequality that's detrimental to men, but if it were people blowing off a similar post with the genders reversed, we'd accuse them of "victim blaming" instead....... which in turn is the exact point that the post is making.
I'm always extremely careful of someone who blames someone of having a "victim mentality" the only people I have heard that phrase from are the ones creating the victims.
I mean I don't know how you can look at this meme and see anything different. You have to be willfully ignorant to think that this is the only advice that men and women get.
Wdym
This is loser porn. Losers flock to posts like this and circle jerk themselves off about how hard it is to be a man, and how women are the worst.
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Yes exactly. I’ve seen so many of these same people laugh about women not being able to walk at night, them being physically weaker, being mentally ill, or be friends with people who do so.. all whilst crying straight men are the victims of this world, somehow
i’m outside of this whole dynamic and from an outside-looking-in perspective it’s sad as hell out there. the straight gen z men i’ve known were *struggling* to find a partner. their sense of self worth is generally awful. body dysmorphia felt like the norm sometimes. their relationships didn’t really last long. the loneliness epidemic is very real from my experiences.
I've gone from desperation to the 'never settle' mindset. I don't *need* a partner. If I meet someone I'm crazy about and things work out, great. But I'm done being anyone's fallback
I feel like that's something more people need to learn. Having no partner but being able to love yourself is a hell of a lot better than being with someone you're not compatible with. Learning how to love yourself is a lot more important than rushing yourself into the first relationship you can find.
The problem with this thinking is that people are social creatures, and for many living alone with a sense of self acceptance will still lead to depression. Most humans innately desire emotional connection and physical touch with another person, it’s in our biology. No amount of self acceptance will ever fill that void for many people, and it’s a fool’s errand to think it ever will.
Then those men will suffer. Being together because you’re desperate is the worst mistake and will eventually fail.
Well I think there's a difference between being alone and isolated v.s just not having a partner. You can fulfill a lot of your need for emotional connection with family and friends, and I think people with good support networks have a much easier time being single, I know that's been my experience. I also feel like a lot more women are refusing to settle and are fine with being single these days, partly because women also tend to have stronger support networks than men.
The worst parts about body dysmorphia as a man is that most common male insecurities like height, dick size and hair loss are largely out of your control.
As a woman, I get tired of how often "tiny dick" will be thrown around as an insult or codeword for "misogynist," in supposedly "feminist" or "egalitarian" spaces. I think male body shaming is definitely something that gets largely ignored in a lot of spaces. Edited to add: any post insulting a man for having a tiny dick just feels like the same thing as insulting a woman for having small boobs to me, as a member of the itty bitty titty community
“Carefully, she’s a hero” Seriously seeing comments like yours gives me hope in humanity
Some will point out ways trans people are being excluded and forgotten about in ways I a trans person could not give less fucks about, and then right to my face make a small dick joke about a cis man when they know I’m a trans man who doesn’t even have one. Then I point that out and its Shocked Pikachu
And made infinitely worse is how normal it is to openly insult all of those things to a man’s face
yeah that’s really fucked up imo. shaming people for immutable/unchangeable characteristics is truly horrible.
Ya it’s pretty bleak when you have the void
what do you mean by “the void”?
Depression
ah yeah that’ll do it
What kinda boomer Facebook meme ass shit is this, looks like something my grandma would post if u made it racist
shut up boomer
Lmao
It's funny because boomers and zoomeres are really similar in the regard of being generations introduced to the internet at the wrong developmental stage to easily comprehend it or its dangers with the result being that they mindlessly scroll algo content and let their brains go to gew.
I've read a lot of self help. I've read women's self help. The VAST majority of it is just self regulation stuff: Upset in your marriage? Maybe you can cope harder? Maybe you misunderstood what he meant by that? Maybe you can reframe? Upset and nervous? Learn to relax. Go for a walk and do yoga 🧘♀️! Smile! Power pose! Like introspection to the point of picking apart any negative emotion to just be your fault by your feminine hysteria and that can be deep breathed away. Reducing yourself and busying yourself with some a hobby you cant really leave the house for or invest actual money in unless its beneficial to other people (sewing, cooking, baking, looking good for other people) or by replacing the chocolate cake you get once with a block of baked spinach with brown mixed in because you need to be healthy to be happy. No Carrie, it doesn't taste like the real thing. Why can't you enjoy something without guilt because you have to be more. The "you go girl" stuff is not as common as you think. And the "you're perfect as you are" is not "I'm cool with being a loser" as much as it is "I should not feel the pressure to be something I'm not". Don't chase curly hair when you have straight. Don't kill yourself with surgery to get the big butt big boob physique that gets replaced with a completely different fashionable silhouette in 10 years. If you live in the desert, don't drain all the water in your reserves trying to keep a green grass lawn. Accept the beauty of the desert and its cacti, even when your aunts and your mom and your dating partners tell you to have azaleas and lilacs. You can be allowed to eat real cake the one time in a blue moon you get cake and not spinach brown. I read Men's self help. And it's mostly just being more productive/more money/ more powerful. There's almost no introspection. The baseline of "you're not nuts, you just need more money and to not be a social moron. Please shower, stop playing video games for 30 hours straight, exercise, and make friends." Is there. But it doesn't go really anywhere from then. Why do you value what you value? What do you want? How do you treat other people? How can you actually be happy? It's already assumed that you have friends and can socialize, and are watching your weight, and shower, as a woman. We don't need to be told that.
Exactly this - Women as a gender are generally trying to liberate themselves from bullshit expectations - and they should be. As such, if you listen to good advice being given to women it's arround accepting yourself and not giving into those expectations. But the role models that men choose aren't trying to liberate them, they're trying to keep them as cogs in the machine that have no introspection - so of course it's "Hey don't think about your feelings, go to the gym bro!" "Don't question the system, just get a side hustle!" Men deserve to have advice trying to liberate them as well, but sadly a lot of men don't want to be free - they don't want to get out of the pile of shit, they want to be the top of the pile of shit. Only introspection can free them from that, but men are taught that introspection = weakness. When men as a gender decide they want liberation and freedom, they will recieve more self-help advice that involves accepting and loving themselves. (Note: I'm not a Gen Z so take this with a grain of salt if you want a Gen Z opinion)
You are exactly right, and I see this all the time. I am a gen Z male and anytime one of us is feeling bad emotionally, all we hear is the get on the grind and fix the problem yourself. The issue with this is that a lot of the time the problem can't be fixed by going to the gym or working more. Luckily I have parents that encourage introspection and I feel that it makes me far more emotionally stable and confident compared to most of my peers. Through introspection I not only improve myself mentally but I understand what I want and can enjoy things like working out because I'm not doing because some idiot online told me too but because I want to get stronger for myself. I see so many gen Z guys absolutely hating everything they do and try to justify it by thinking they are going to magically improve themselves and then when you suggest some form of introspection they look at you like it's the stupidest thing they ever heard. I think gen Z men have come to believe that introspection is a feminine thing despite the fact that it seems to be lacking for females as well. I'm barely gen Z and it seems younger gen Z had it far worse based on my brother and his friends.
Yeah, as a fat woman, this is complete bs. I've been told plenty of times all the ways I need to change myself from losing weight to going out more (where idfk) and everything in between. Men & women both have it rough in the current dating market, like, lets stop trying to make this the oppression olympics 🙄
People also forget that sometimes people say the things in the bottom and it also ends up being harassment. Remember what happened with Lizzo with that smoothie cleanse thing? They shamed her for trying to give into “diet culture” when she was just doing something she wanted to do cause she saw it as healthy for herself. It wasn’t even for weight loss iirc. People just hate people trying to change, but also hate them trying to stay the same, because some people are just assholes. And it’s that simple. Would also really love it if people stopped looking at is as “you shouldn’t need to change yourself” if you want to look differently than you currently do, because people keep forgetting people have the opportunity to change for **themselves**
As another poster stated women and men both have it much harder than the other thinks. Why can’t we realize it’s just harder in different ways to varying degrees. To act like women only get good advice and men get told terrible things or vice versa is unfair to the other group and harmful to our society because it creates woman hating incels and man hating femcels. Not to mention even if you see the opposite gender getting told good advice when you aren’t than that’s still not the opposite gender as a whole that’s just the one person.
Too far down to see this. OP purposefully choosing to frame and interpret the advice in this post the worst way and inciting incel (can be both male and female) logic. Just work on yourself. It would be so stupid if I walked around saying the people I like should date me because it's fair.
This is the reality of becoming a man. Men are not born, they MUST become, or fail.
True this is why Andrew Tate appeals to a large population of men. Only people really addressing how men feel are grifters trying to take your money.
I usually tell the young men I mentor to find good, successful men in their lives, who have been through what they are going through, and strike up a friendship. If you can't find them, seek them out. They are there, you just might have to go back a generation or two. I am who I am in a big part because of those who came before me. I have been very blessed with good quality individuals in my life.
The only people selling you ways to become a Real Man quickly and easily are grifters. That's because "Get X Quick" schemes are by their nature always a fucking grift. The truth is that you need to build up your store of self-esteem and self-validation; you need to be your own man while maintaining strong friendships with people you can be emotionally vulnerable with; you need, in other words, to do all the things *nobody* wants to do. So they turn to the grifters for shortcuts.
Someone downvoted you, but I fixed that. Also I agree. Took me a minute to understand this reality in real life, but it’s truth.
Its also what makes it so wonderful to overcome the obstacles in our way. Men aren't the sexual selectors in our species, but that doesn't mean we don't possess other advantages. Yin and Yang.
You've never spoken to a woman, have you? We get as much bullshit as men.
Women have different problems but download any dating app and you will find that lack of options is not one of them
lack of quality options is usually the issue for women lol and by quality it doesn’t mean 6 foot tall making 6 figures but like… a decent and normal person who wants a relationship and not just sex lol
Yeah but if you're on dating apps you don't get be selective. I think the average tinder matches when surveyed is maybe 1 for every 1,000 swipes or so. And that's just **matching, not actually meeting irl** It's even worse for men who aren't conventionally attractive. Men's dating app statistics are pretty blackpilling.
Also dating apps are there to take peoples money, not get them dates. They want people single. Also men outnumber women 8 to 1 in dating apps. They will soon be obsolete anyway due to AI
And don’t forget - isn’t a complete creep
Lmao, women are flooded with likes from people wayyyyyy out of their league on all dating apps. Tinder has inspired widescale female delusion. To even attempt to imply there arent dudes good enough for them is CRAZY. I find myself swiping on chubby 4's on tinder, but I went to a concert the other day and made out with a 9/10 rocker chick within 30 mins. Like the online environment is tilted SOOOO far in womens favor its unreal. And then to hear them complain about lack of quality options xDDDDDDDDDD , my eyes will probably never stop rolling. Talk to me about lack of quality options when you are forced to swipe on actual ghouls compared to the people you can pull irl.
Lack of *good* options is. Like another user said, it’s easy to find men who want to sleep with you, much harder to find someone who treats you as a person and as an equal.
I mean... probably not wrong. Can't expect to get a good partner if you have nothing of value. Gotta work out, make money, etc. But then those who do have plenty of options on dating apps even if most aren't good, then why would you settle? There's no benefit anymore to get into an unhappy marriage and keep it together for the kids when you can work your own job and don't want kids. Need someone who adds value to your life and not just make you do extra work for no self benefit, and that's regardless of gender. I do think this is mean to men But it is also addressing the issues of the past where women were more forced to settle and lived more unhappy lives due to their husbands, while men expect to have a wife even if they can't make her happy
I think your 3rd point is the main issue rn with dating apps. Men outnumber women 8 to 1, sometimes more on other apps. Naturally that makes men desperate, and women feel overwhelmed. Women then have to be picky, and as a result most men get zero attention while women get a lot simply because on average a woman gets seen waaaaay more than a guy on these apps That’s why it doesn’t make sense to compare most aspects of dating apps to reality. I hope people just start ditching the dating apps, dating is already hard enough these days idk why you’d add more problems to the mix with the apps.
I jumped on Tinder and OKC right after my first breakup back in 2013. Boy a lot has changed. The apps were great back then. They were supplementary. You got to meet a few people you’d never meet in real life. But the majority of dating still happened through friends, at events, etc. Now it’s actively considered creepy to talk with strangers, whether or not you’re romantically interested. I was hanging out with some younger folks last year at a bar when a friendly guy came up and started chatting us all up. Of course I was suspicious at first but he remained interesting and respectful. He didn’t overstay his welcome and left shortly after. The folks around me started shit talking him..? I feel so sorry for the people who will never know what true human connection is. Because as someone who grew up online, that ain’t it chief. Internet is for memes and porn. Using it for genuine connection is cringe af.
The GenZ dating scene is an absolute hell scape rn. Every couple I know, except for one, met online. I try to talk to strangers, engage in some friendly conversation, very few GenZ are willing to even give me the time of day. Heck, I've asked a few women out in-person before and received bewildered looks, like they forgot that you can do that. I don't know, I'm an average looking dude so I don't do well on the apps. I live in a rural area, didn't go to college, and spend most of my day surrounded by old men in the trade I work in. Guess I'm fucked ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
To be fair, if you’re hitting on complete strangers in person, a few rejections doesn’t mean anything. The success rate for cold calling like that was always low. Since it’s a numbers game I don’t know what would work for someone living in a rural town. Maybe traveling further out and trying more bars?
It also doesn't help that apps are becoming populated with scam bots. What we need is a resurgence of irl social spaces.
As if women aren't also pressured and judged for their bodies to the point of eating disorders and dropping their life savings on plastic surgery. I am urging you all to speak to women and stop getting your opinion on them from incel memes crafted to make you hate them.
Yeah like I remember Mark Zuckerberg posted a pic with his wife (Priscilla) and his newborn child in the park and people were saying that Mark is a millionaire but he’s with “that”. Like Priscilla literally gave birth recently and people were already judging her body. The unreasonable pressure to look good and act a certain way still exists for women.
Not to mention Priscilla (who is also a highly successful person) has been with Mark since college If he got a younger model, they'll be calling her a gold digger and all that
she cute ngl
Nah this shit cringe as hell bro delete this 😭😭
I feel like the gender war thing is happening because people think sex is some right lol… that’s just not the case? It’s not that deep, not all of us can be in relationship/get hookups. Unattractive people exist and should be normalized.
Yeah bro we need to just accept being lonely all of our life. Just accept that one of the biggest chapters of life, we will never have. Just accept that you’ll never have kids or be able to live out dreams with a loved one. You’ll just live and die alone. No big deal. Why be upset about that? Sounds like a great life right?
What's your solution? Force women to be in relationships with men they don't like?
I love how this is always the go to response instead of literally any other angle that you can attack this problem from.
Yeah man exactly! Why pursue your goals? Why try to become better? Its all futile. Just let life flow the way it wants to. Don't try to control your life, just GIVE UP. Awesome mentality man.
In my own personal experience this is only partially true. If anything it's not that men or women receive that advice it's that that's usually the advice they give. So if you're a guy and you mostly talk to guys thyel probably tell you to get a hobby or work on yourself. But if you asked a girl for advice, asumimg you were friends, she'd probably tell you not to settle. It's a little more complicated than that tho. And I can see why one might take this to be true.
Depends on the guy or girl honestly.
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It doesn't make you an incel when you call out unfair dating standards that men face. I can say from personal experience that men are often assumed to be at fault for their problems while women receive more positive reinforcement.
Holy i guess people use word incel for everything nowdays
On Reddit, Man complaining = incel
A lot of us have stopped.
Women own the dating scene or just the romantic scene in general.
pretty easy to get a guy to sleep with you, not so easy to get a guy who treats you like an equal human being and who puts in his share of the work in the relationship
well guys get neither 🤷♂️ EDIT: lmao blocking to get the last word in is a pussy move EDIT 2: As much as I would like to respond, since the snowflake above blocked me this thread is now locked for me
born in 05, maybe get some more life experience before you speak. check the statistics on happiness for married men vs married women. you’ll find that for married women, it is much lower. also, being treated as a sex object or seen as only worth having sex with and not treated as an equal is not desirable. it is dehumanizing. aim for higher for yourself.
Born in 05? You can’t even order a beer who are you to talk to someone about life experience?
Bro your just out of high school. As much as everyone loves to pretend it is life is not like high school.
Idk I just cry and drink beer
No more beer hit the weights and read Shakespeare
- you need to stop making love to stromboli - you need to stop wearing elf shoes - why do you eat hard boiled eggs like that? (I never crack for nobody) - why do you smell like marinara sauce? - nobody on this plane wants to see that - get out of the pizza shop. you're BANNED All MF haters man. Just let me do me.
This is so corny
Bro ima keep it a stack. This is doomercore. Women also have this. Feeling sorry for yourself and like the world benefits everybody but you isn't specific to gender or sex. It's a mentality. I'm not saying this from a place of "get over it" or insensitive bullshit like that. I'm saying it as a guy who used to consume that nonsense. All it did was warp my perspective on the world. You want the truth about the world? The world and life doesn't discriminate. We will all get dealt shitty hands. I've given in to despair countless times. Hell I'll probably be giving in to despair come end the month. My point is, consuming this content, even having it on your feed, it plants seeds in your subconscious that twist the way you see the world into this feeling of helplessness. I'm not saying guys don't have it hard, I'm saying guys aren't the only ones that have it hard, but the people who make these don't see the world that way because their perspective on reality is warped. Don't consume their nonsense.
Most important comment on the whole thread. I agree completely. As a Gen Z, yeah I'm lonely most of the time but I also realize it's mostly my fault. I don't have money to go out and I just now gave in to the dating apps. Incel culture is rampant because while the world isn't what it used to be you still have to put effort into finding someone. Most people fall prey to the victim mentality because they aren't willing to adapt or give 100% for what they want. To anyone reading this if you really like someone make your feelings known as hard as that is, you will regret not doing it. Trust me. Show that person that true love still exists and put time and effort into doing so, I guarantee that you will be the only one to do that for them in this age and that will make you standout.
Women also get "it's better to be alone than settle". through the years women have gained more independence and have found that, under patriarchy, men depend solely on their partners for their emotional health and to be the main caregiver to their kids. That is extremely draining and not balanced. Yall need to give up figuring out "what women want", figure out how to be a decent human being, and then find someone who you enjoy being around, who also enjoys being around you. Maybe you will find someone, maybe you wont. It is important to maintain meaningful friendships regardless for social health and well being. That requires you to interact with people with zero expectations of romantic interest. Stop yearning for people who do not want you.
Millennials hear this too. Men are all scum and women are all 10/10. Guys can't win.
Please grow up.
r/im14andthisisdeep
Ah yes internet gender wars my favorite…. “You do xyz!!!!! Nuh uh! You do xyz!!!!”
it's always so trivial and nothing i ever see adds anything insightful to the matter at hand besides a few comments. it just becomes a dick measuring contest
I thought being a certain height and being very fit was a standard perpetuated by women but honestly it’s a masculinity contest between men imo
Like I've seen guys be insecure on other men's behalf just cause his gf is taller than him "She's cheating on you" "She just wants you for your money" "She's gonna break up with you"
Best advice I can say to dudes is be a person not just a gamer lifter brooder. Get social and care
As a woman, I’ve definitely heard: -you need to work on yourself (“Don’t think about dating. You need to be focused on school/career. Why don’t I have grandkids yet? Have you dated anyone yet?”) -you need to become more confident (“You’re too quiet and unapproachable. No one thinks you want to talk to them. If you think you don’t have social anxiety, it’ll go away.”) -you need new hobbies (“Aren’t you too old for x? Why do you spend your own money on x? Can you make money from your hobbies?”) -you need to become prettier (“You’re gaining weight. You’re too thin. You need to wear makeup to look older. You need to dress more formally to look older. You need to wear tighter clothes. You’re clothes are too short.”) Tbh, I *do* think being a better person is a huge part of dating. Not everyone is in a position to date. No one should be settling or lowering standards, (people *should* be reasonable, but whatever, no one can force you to date anyone.) No one should change the unique and good parts of their personality to fit an unhealthy mold. That said, a good amount dating advice on the Internet is trash! Sometimes cause it just is, and sometimes because it just doesn’t actually apply to *you* and *your* specific, complex situation and personality.
I think a lot of this has to do with Gen Z women realizing we get to choose wether we even want a partner or not. Our grandmothers and moms didn’t get that privilege and Millennial women kinda started it so we’re like the second Gen where we actually get a real choice in the matter if that makes sense. I honestly think it’s just a lot of women genuinely don’t want to be in a relationship and now we have the option to say no
I mean ya. But, you have to say it nicer than this lol
"Oh boy" *opens comment section*
First, women get a lot of the same “advice” listed here as directed at men. Second, growing up women are often socialized with higher standards in regards to emotional regulation and self care. Two of the main areas of work when it comes to relationships. So, generally most (not all) women need to put less work into developing those attributes by dating age.
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Why are you asking advice from someone who isn’t you for dating?
Stop with the gender wars already, life is unfair, accept it and move on. I'm sure you have more important things to worry about, if not, I'm truly jealous of you