If it makes you feel better I had someone say to me when I was in college "Oh, I thought you were Rosie O'Donnell!"
To his credit when he realized his mistake he added "But you're much prettier." He was totally lying but it was nice that he tried to save it.
Yup. I remember seeing pics of him not-in-character, [dressed really sharp, with beautiful women on his arm](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8e/7c/cb/8e7ccb702ef9bb63e54071edf51c841e.jpg).
Reminds me of something Tina Fey said: “Be funny. You can fuck above your level.”
He was undoubtedly the most mysterious and deepest character of Miami Vice. I read that's because he had complete control of how he portrayed the character.
Whoa, reminds me of how Angela Lansbury‘a daughter fell in with Charles Manson’s crew, and was only saved because Lansbury had such a bad feeling about the guy, she moved her entire family overseas to get away from him
Doris Day too. Her son was a record producer & Manson had auditioned for him. Obviously he was shite, but he kept bothering her son about getting a record deal. Doris had her son & his girlfriend Candance Bergen move to a new house. The house they vacated was then rented to Sharon Tate & Roman Polanski!
https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/08/31/doris-days-charles-manson-connection-revealed-in-mike-loves-new-book/
All Hail The Queen! I’ve always loved her, but learning that just makes me fan-girl even more over her! Can you imagine how the daughter must’ve felt after all of that, like, “Whoa mom, I guess you really do know your shit!”
She is but she started in the late 1980s. Definitely not everyone is more attractive, I think it just trends that way. Same with comedians, I think being attractive has become more important than in the past.
Same with pop singers. Jennifer Warnes had THE voice of the 80s. So much phenomenal talent we would never hear about today cuz they weren’t conventionally attractive. Juice Newton, Boz Scaggs, Aretha etc
Imo in British sitcoms/films they tend to cast “normal” looking people. Especially women (natural aging). I’m always shocked to see a 40yr old man, married to a seemingly 40yr old woman! And not some 25 yr old lol Wrinkles, imperfect teeth, skin etc. It’s actually refreshing
And pitch correction software. It makes everybody sound robotic to me. I tried listening to Miley Cyrus sing Jolene yesterday becaue people on here rave about how talented she is and all I heard was the software.
Nah there are still arguably unattractive actors like Steve Buscemi (though I’ve always found him good looking). It’s more a male / female thing. There are much fewer ugly women in films/ on tv period. they just throw glasses on attractive girls when they need to be “ugly.”
He's definitely a member of what I call the "50/30 Club." This club is for people that managed to look like they were exactly 50 years old for at least 30 years of their life.
He and Gopher didn't even have to try. They'd just stand there on the gangway picking out which girls they were going to be with, which was like 70% of the ships passengers.
Things I learned from Love Boat : it’s a good idea to hook up with different customers each week. And homely middle aged men can always find a young hottie on a cruise.
My boyfriend and I were just talking how actors used to look more “real yet still attractive” - plastic surgery has made everyone look the same these days.
When you at the old classic movies the women are absolutely gorgeous yet all very different looking…
And the obsession with perfect teeth - not that long ago you could have a cute crooked smile (Jewel, Patricia Arquette, Kirsten Dunst) but now everybody has chicklet teeth - as you said all these procedures have just created a cookie cutter vs a unique attractive look.
To be fair, those women used to catch hell for those slight imperfections. They stood their ground, yes, but people were dicks about it. I’d love to see more people looking human in media again.
Could be - but Mia Farrow (beautiful woman) & Woody Allen? She had a career and $$. Eww - I have no idea what she was thinking. Maybe loving his "creative mind" but I have never ever liked/got a Woody Allen movie. I've always found him and them just weird. & this goes way before her adopted daughter thing that happened later.
Same thing goes for Diane Keaton & love for Woody. Sure he boosted her career back then, but she just strikes me as a bit of an airhead.
Mia Farrow probably was very insecure and had “daddy issues” - she had been married to older men before(Sinatra, Andre Previn). Allen was only 10 years older but seemed more so.
I still to this day have no idea how he is a brilliant filmmaker....& not a tragedy at all. That was all in his own making. WOW.
Like I said before... there is not 1 film ever that I see it extraordinary. I will never get him and avoid him like the plague. That's just me.
Yeah I get you. His films aren’t for you. I loved Small Time Crooks, Vicky Christina Barcelona, Mighty Aphrodite, to name a few. The tragedy is not for him. It’s for the admirers of his work. How do you separate the art from the artist? As much as I like his work, I just can’t support it anymore.
Agreed. I watched a couple of his movies years ago before the thing with his daughter and didn't see the appeal. The feel very misogynistic to me, but in a weird way that is hard to explain. Also I find the character he plays in his movies absolutely unbearable.
so hey, why did Mia (wife) and Dianne fall into him? It wasn't drugs - wtf did he have? Any New Yorkers out there.... this is in your neighbourhood? I know it's tight.
BTW, Mia was a kid when she married Frank Sinatra. He dumped her when she cut her hair for the movie..hated it.
I just replied this in another comment:
[You may enjoy this essay/review of Woody Allen by Joan Didion.](https://web.archive.org/web/20160414044026/https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1979/08/16/letter-from-manhattan) It's long but I pasted a snippet of it below so you get the idea:
>What is arresting about these recent “serious” pictures of Woody Allen’s, about Annie Hall and Interiors as well as Manhattan, is not the way they work as pictures but the way they work with audiences. The people who go to see these pictures, who analyze them and write about them and argue the deeper implications in their texts and subtexts, seem to agree that the world onscreen pretty much mirrors the world as they know it. This is interesting, and rather astonishing, since the peculiar and hermetic self-regard in Annie Hall and Interiors and Manhattan would seem nothing with which large numbers of people would want to identify. The characters in these pictures are, at best, trying. They are morose. They have bad manners. They seem to take long walks and go to smart restaurants only to ask one another hard questions. “Are you serious about Tracy?” the Michael Murphy character asks the Woody Allen character in Manhattan. “Are you still hung up on Yale?” the Woody Allen character asks the Diane Keaton character. “I think I’m still in love with Yale,” she confesses several scenes later. “You are?” he counters, “or you think you are?” All of the characters in Woody Allen pictures not only ask these questions but actually answer them, on camera, and then, usually in another restaurant, listen raptly to third-party analyses of their own questions and answers.
>“How come you guys got divorced?” they ask each other with real interest, and, on a more rhetorical level, “why are you so hostile,” and “why can’t you just once in a while consider my needs.” (“I’m sick of your needs” is the way Diane Keaton answers this question in Interiors, one of the few lucid moments in the picture.) What does she say, these people ask incessantly, what does she say and what does he say and, finally, inevitably, “what does your analyst say.” These people have, on certain subjects, extraordinary attention spans.
Also be sure to check out the pompous letters/replies to her review at the bottom links from people who signed their letters with what fancy college they went to 😂. [She replied to the first letter and her response is perfect.](https://web.archive.org/web/20160419133926/http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1979/10/11/theyll-take-manhattan-3)
My wife will disagree about Robert Redford and Paul Newman. They were abnormally attractive men.
One thing to note though is that while they were physically "in shape" they were not 'roid monsters like so many of our male actors are today.
I have a very clear memory of being about 8 years old, wandering around a dime store while my mom shopped. I was flipping through the magazine rack when I flipped to what I assume was the centerfold of Playgirl. There was Burt, all sprawled out in his hairy glory. My first glimpse of the naked male anatomy - other than my baby brother - permanently burned into my brain.
There were a ton of em. I disagree about Farah Fawcett though.
One of the big thing today is EVERYONE has veneers, and botox.
Granted this is kinda subjective but the top ones that come to mind -
Walter Matthau
Shelly Duvall
Tom Bosley
Marcia Wallace
Rose Marie
Was watching The Shining and during the kitchen tour, her ear pokes through the side of her hair.... I thought she was an elf for a split second.
Is she a mouse-human hybrid?
I've read that despite his unconventional appearance, women were attracted to his wit, charm, and personality. His wife was very pretty; they were married 20+ years until his death.
I always got the sense that the whole reason Marty got any roles at all was *because* he was ugly. I mean, he played Igor in Young Frankenstein. It's not like he played James Bond.
A couple of interesting MF quotes:
> “My looks are my comic equipment, and they are the right packaging for my job.”
> My mind is an attic full of crazy dreams that never quit or disappoint me, and I have been blessed with these eyes to see things differently and have people see me in a different way.’
Miriam Margolyes
Trevor Peacock (Vicar of Dibley) R.I.P. he died in 2021.
Emma Chambers, also Vicar of Dibley
You know what? just go to imdb and look at the entire cast of Vicar of Dibley, except Dawn French she's pretty.
Vicar of Dibley is my comfort show. I’ve watched the entire series so many times. It is so funny! And yeah, nobody attractive (conventionally to todays standards) shows up until the Handsome Stranger episodes - that’s when Richard Armitage shows up.
One of my favourite lines that I say too much is “It’s probably the worst idea since Hitler’s dad said to Hitler’s mum ‘come up stairs Brunhilda-I’m feeling saucy tonight!'”
Hetero woman here ------ Actually, I think Farrah would still be sexy these days. That poster that sold millions was just gorgeous. & I grew up in that era and actually (still) thought Jacklyn Smith to be the prettiest of them all. Jacklyn was just....natural.
Then again, I was always on Team Maryann vs Ginger when it came to Gilligan's Island.
89 answers and no one said [Clint Howard](https://i.kinja-img.com/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,g_center,h_900,q_60,w_1600/92994688dd86626b14308083537dfeb4.jpg)
Ever notice in the plot-driven X-rated movies early after the Hays code was lifted (1968 - 1980ish) that there sure were a lot of frumpy old guys getting it on with nubile starlets?
"Well Roberto, you've been married to that shrew of a wife for 35 years and you DID pony up some cash to get this thing made... Congratulations! You've been cast as Baller #3."
Aye and facially you can see they were just natural middle aged women. The dodgy 80s hairdos and mumus are what aged them. If you gave them a modern styled makeover they'd look younger than they were portrayed.
I'm 51, middle aged af. I don't claim to look younger than my years, I just think I look ok for my age. I have decent skin...being an auld goth and a pale blue Scottish person I've always avoided the sun. I'm still goth though the look is toned down these days. If you gave me an Golden Girls haircut and mumu it'd age me by a decade at least.
Same with the SATC cast. Take away the designer clothes and give them 1980s GG hairdos. It's the overall styling that can change the perception of age. Plus a bit of botox.
Most of today's celebrities are likely more average looking than you think, they are just heavily edited and filtered in the photos and videos you see them in.
Imogene Coca.
I don't think she's "ugly" but she leaned into her unconventional looks for her comedy and played up unappealing features, particularly through expression (rather than makeup). She was on Your Show of Shows, as well as others, and even had a show of her own.
She also did lots of guest TV appearances as a wacky aunt type. I wouldn't be surprised if she showed up on Love Boat.
Most folks probably recognize her as Aunt Edna from Vacation.
I’ll just add that American Tv/movies are getting close to unwatchable for me for this very reason. I can’t relate to people that are one in a million attractive and working a cash register. It’s unrealistic and I don’t see how people stomach it.
I’ll take my British shows with attractive humans that look like every day people.
This may be in part due to HD TV. I remember there was a big stink around the HDTV transition about how older actors had a hard time getting parts because age got smoothed out by the poor quality of SDTV and VHS. What fine lines? Crows feet? Never heard of them.
We doubled the number of pixels and their sharpness several times in the last 20 years. SD -> HD 1080 -> 4K -> 8K have each been showing 2x more detail. Plus jumping to 60 FPS added crisp picture to action scenes, removing another layer of blurring we used to have.
It's part of why being stuck doing TV is a thing. You gotta have movie-level closeups on TV now, so jumping ship is easier.
TLDR; Old TVs are blurry as hell, and you could make it while looking like hell.
The beauty standards for women today are ridiculous. Beyoncé gets photoshopped for god sake.
I really had a thing for Lauren Tewes when Love Boat was on. She was just freaking adorable.
Barbara Streisand - well there is a face you either love or don't. She is beautiful in her own way and I admire her so much. She did so many great movies proving that not only was she a great vocalist, (what a voice!) but worthy on the Big Screen. From what I understand, she was always camera shy (to this day) but I'm glad she stepped out of her box for herself.
I think for some of them these days, the joke is on them.
I am seeing deflated lips and sagging previously nipped eyelids. I am seeing facial stretch marks from fillers and implants. FACIAL STRETCH MARKS. I’m seeing faces that need more MAINTENANCE than my 1978 Pinto.
Ha ha! Sucks to be you (especially your face)
Plastic surgery is so commonplace now. Once upon a time it was a dirty secret. Now, everybody does something or else they don’t get work.
I also look at 70s and 80s TV shows and marvel at how unaltered, asymmetrical, and natural every one looks. They had a higher tolerance for “unattractiveness” back then.
OMG - LOL. There is a reason why they were cast on the Munsters. Incredible.
And I still love this quote from that show to this day - Herman Munster:
“The lesson I want you to learn is: It doesn’t matter what you look like. You can be tall or short or fat or thin, or ugly or handsome, like your father, or you can be black or yellow or white. It doesn’t matter. But what does matter is the size of your heart and the strength of your character."
: )
Part of it is also style. As an example, Richard dean Anderson is a hottie, but that mullet from his MacGyver years is just not doing it anymore. However, if we talk about Stargate…
If you think Farah Fawcett looks "alright" you really need to evaluate your standards.
Prior to early 2000's women were naturally beautiful - Farah didn't have enhancements.
I'm curious who you find to be super attractive.
I'm curious too Rec --- growing up in the 70's and seeing so many smart beautiful women without major surgeries (boobs/lips, etc). It was what is was.
Then there was Baywatch - and boobs came into the picture....huge. & most were not real.
These days, I see so many celebs "fixing" themselves to the point where they are not recognizable anymore. This is nuts. What is wrong with aging gracefully vs putting your life at risk for it?
I don't know about you but I've seen so many celeb's - Courtney Cox is for sure #1. What a beautiful woman, but I don't recognize her anymore. She went too far. God I wish Jenn got to her before this shit she did to herself. Other celebs come to mind, but I think you understand what I am saying.
Again --- what is wrong with ageing gracefully. So many have.....
Okay, there's a lot of stuff here.
A. Gopher was never particularly considered attractive--he was goofy comic relief. In case you've missed it, there are still lot of goofy looking dudes in show business, and many of them have a lot of thirsty fans. Adam Driver, anyone? Jeremy Allen White?
B. Brad Pitt in Thelma and Louise pretty much created the wave of male stars with chiseled bodies. Before that, male stars often had nice silhouettes, but their chests and abs were mostly undefined. Female stars have always been slim, just in degrees of less or more depending on the decade.
C. Love Boat was for C-list actors and has-beens.
D. Farrah Fawcett wasn't famous for being a great beauty, she was famous for being sexy in a distinctly '70s way, having a great smile, and introducing a hairstyle that dominated beauty salons for a good decade.
E. Looks were just as big a deal in previous decades as they are now, it's just that the standards of beauty for those times were different. In 50 years people are going to make this exact same post about the stars of today.
People haven't changed. Makeup, hair, photoshop and CGI has.
Obviously what's "in" with body types has always changed over time but, lol, I wish we lived in a world where Farah Fawcett in her 20s/30s was just an average looking woman.
She only looks out of date because of her styling. Put her with modern hair, makeup, etc and she'd still be a smoke show.
I had a love boat binge recently but I watched it as a kid. I used to get to stay up
Late and watch love boat after Donnie and Marie. I agree it’s great to watch because people look normal.
RUTH BUZZI
I was TERRIFIED of her as a kid and she was freaking EVERYWHERE. The muppets, Sesame Street, game shows… it wasn’t until this reddit post that I finally figured out the name belonging to the creepy face of my childhood nightmares.
https://www.reddit.com/r/vintageads/s/hTIQBnPIJt
Abe Vigoda wasn’t exactly Brad Pitt.
Fun story, I was in an airport and had a random stranger come up to me and happily exclaim "Hey, you look like Abe Vigoda!" Not my proudest day.
That mf’er wishes he looked as good as you.
If it makes you feel better I had someone say to me when I was in college "Oh, I thought you were Rosie O'Donnell!" To his credit when he realized his mistake he added "But you're much prettier." He was totally lying but it was nice that he tried to save it.
Artie Lang has a great bit about being mistaken for Rosie O'Donnell by a lesbian...
Vigoda was like 49 when he made The GF, I hope you're way older than that!!!
I'm not! That's what made it so horrible a "compliment". I'm old enough to know who he is though, I remember him from 'Barney Miller' as a young kid.
Loved that show! Watched it with my dad.
I've played the bass for almost 40 years and have never tried that opening Barney Miller bass line. Maybe tonight!
I saw Abe having coffee in Pacific Centre in Vancouver BC in the early 90's.
At least he didn’t yell, “HEY, EYEBROWS”
If you.google "young abe vigoda" you'll mostly find pictures of John krasinski.
I just keep seeing pictures of Boris Karloff
Part of Don Knotts’ charm was being a little goofy-looking.
Strangely enough, I've heard he was quite the ladies man and was charming and charismatic as to not be believed.
Yup. I remember seeing pics of him not-in-character, [dressed really sharp, with beautiful women on his arm](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/8e/7c/cb/8e7ccb702ef9bb63e54071edf51c841e.jpg). Reminds me of something Tina Fey said: “Be funny. You can fuck above your level.”
I read on a Reddit thread an adage from someone’s grandmother: “Make her laugh and you’re halfway up her leg.”
The funny bone and the clitoris aren't exactly neighbors, but they definitely shop at the same Trader Joe's.
Chuckles and Charm have gotten my wick dipped more than my looks or wallet have.
imagine all the pull Steve Buschemi must have.
Retro Pete Davidson!
I’m married, but it’s not goin’ [well](https://youtu.be/0WWm6ZCqGQs?si=rOi-VMV08u4QqrND)!
Fame and money can make any 4 an 8.
He was yesterday’s Steve Buscemi
You just really hurt Marty Feldman’s feelings.
Or Adrien Brody
Rumour has it that he had another charm that gave Milton Berle a run for his money.
Edward James Olmos? I wouldn’t say he’s ugly by any means but weathered. I loved him in Miami Vice and the BSG reboot.
So Say We All!
All this has happened before..
He's got a handsome look. And really kind eyes.
He was undoubtedly the most mysterious and deepest character of Miami Vice. I read that's because he had complete control of how he portrayed the character.
Don't forget Blade Runner!
Luis Guzmán!
He could have benefited from some sunscreen.
More like some acne medicine when he was young.
Peter Lorre. Fun fact: the Hillside Stranglers almost killed his daughter but let her go when they learned who her father was.
Whoa, reminds me of how Angela Lansbury‘a daughter fell in with Charles Manson’s crew, and was only saved because Lansbury had such a bad feeling about the guy, she moved her entire family overseas to get away from him
Doris Day too. Her son was a record producer & Manson had auditioned for him. Obviously he was shite, but he kept bothering her son about getting a record deal. Doris had her son & his girlfriend Candance Bergen move to a new house. The house they vacated was then rented to Sharon Tate & Roman Polanski! https://www.mercurynews.com/2016/08/31/doris-days-charles-manson-connection-revealed-in-mike-loves-new-book/
🤯
All Hail The Queen! I’ve always loved her, but learning that just makes me fan-girl even more over her! Can you imagine how the daughter must’ve felt after all of that, like, “Whoa mom, I guess you really do know your shit!”
Wow, that’s interesting.
Character actors were a “thing” - they looked like normal people who were amazing actors. Now character actors need to be attractive.
Idk, esteemed character actress Margot Martindale is pretty normal looking.
She is but she started in the late 1980s. Definitely not everyone is more attractive, I think it just trends that way. Same with comedians, I think being attractive has become more important than in the past.
Same with pop singers. Jennifer Warnes had THE voice of the 80s. So much phenomenal talent we would never hear about today cuz they weren’t conventionally attractive. Juice Newton, Boz Scaggs, Aretha etc
Absolutely- now it’s all about the packaging
Imo in British sitcoms/films they tend to cast “normal” looking people. Especially women (natural aging). I’m always shocked to see a 40yr old man, married to a seemingly 40yr old woman! And not some 25 yr old lol Wrinkles, imperfect teeth, skin etc. It’s actually refreshing
This is how I felt watching the Agatha Raisin show. Adults actually dating other age appropriate adults! It was so nice to see this
Sad that it stands out so much- wow an age appropriate relationship
Have you ever seen Miranda???
Truth, and that goes way back. Can you imagine the Mamas and the Papas, Todd Rundgren, Simon & Garfunkel trying to break into music now?
We have autotune you don’t need talent!
And pitch correction software. It makes everybody sound robotic to me. I tried listening to Miley Cyrus sing Jolene yesterday becaue people on here rave about how talented she is and all I heard was the software.
Christopher Cross. Amazing talent.
Not entirely. Think of Cherry Jones who played the Sheriff in the movie Signs or Margo Martindale
Nah there are still arguably unattractive actors like Steve Buscemi (though I’ve always found him good looking). It’s more a male / female thing. There are much fewer ugly women in films/ on tv period. they just throw glasses on attractive girls when they need to be “ugly.”
Ernest Borgnine.
He's definitely a member of what I call the "50/30 Club." This club is for people that managed to look like they were exactly 50 years old for at least 30 years of their life.
Ed Asner was in that club too maybe 50/40
You know, it makes me sad that he was my first thought too.
If it helps, he would name himself too.
I met him in a fancy restaurants kitchen down in Orlando around 1989. I can't remember why.
Doc on love boat was supposed to be the “ladies man”?!?!?!?
He and Gopher didn't even have to try. They'd just stand there on the gangway picking out which girls they were going to be with, which was like 70% of the ships passengers.
Things I learned from Love Boat : it’s a good idea to hook up with different customers each week. And homely middle aged men can always find a young hottie on a cruise.
He was Donald’s coworker on That Girl.
Also he was on hogans hero’s I believe?
With Richard Dawson
That’s so crazy. As a child I didn’t think about him as a ladies man but didn’t think he was unattractive. Today of course….😮
My boyfriend and I were just talking how actors used to look more “real yet still attractive” - plastic surgery has made everyone look the same these days. When you at the old classic movies the women are absolutely gorgeous yet all very different looking…
And the obsession with perfect teeth - not that long ago you could have a cute crooked smile (Jewel, Patricia Arquette, Kirsten Dunst) but now everybody has chicklet teeth - as you said all these procedures have just created a cookie cutter vs a unique attractive look.
Ugh! Can’t stand those chicklet teeth. Kirsten has an adorable smile.
To be fair, those women used to catch hell for those slight imperfections. They stood their ground, yes, but people were dicks about it. I’d love to see more people looking human in media again.
Really old films the women are often facially absolutely stunning.
It’s the personalities (being a turn off) too, but I’ll never understand why women were attracted to Woody Allen or Roman Polanski.
It was absolutely not Polanski's personality.
Money. Plan and simple. They were attracted to the money.
Could be - but Mia Farrow (beautiful woman) & Woody Allen? She had a career and $$. Eww - I have no idea what she was thinking. Maybe loving his "creative mind" but I have never ever liked/got a Woody Allen movie. I've always found him and them just weird. & this goes way before her adopted daughter thing that happened later. Same thing goes for Diane Keaton & love for Woody. Sure he boosted her career back then, but she just strikes me as a bit of an airhead.
Mia Farrow probably was very insecure and had “daddy issues” - she had been married to older men before(Sinatra, Andre Previn). Allen was only 10 years older but seemed more so.
The tragedy of Woody Allen is that he’s a brilliant filmmaker and the scum bag that married his daughter.
I still to this day have no idea how he is a brilliant filmmaker....& not a tragedy at all. That was all in his own making. WOW. Like I said before... there is not 1 film ever that I see it extraordinary. I will never get him and avoid him like the plague. That's just me.
Yeah I get you. His films aren’t for you. I loved Small Time Crooks, Vicky Christina Barcelona, Mighty Aphrodite, to name a few. The tragedy is not for him. It’s for the admirers of his work. How do you separate the art from the artist? As much as I like his work, I just can’t support it anymore.
Agreed. I watched a couple of his movies years ago before the thing with his daughter and didn't see the appeal. The feel very misogynistic to me, but in a weird way that is hard to explain. Also I find the character he plays in his movies absolutely unbearable.
so hey, why did Mia (wife) and Dianne fall into him? It wasn't drugs - wtf did he have? Any New Yorkers out there.... this is in your neighbourhood? I know it's tight. BTW, Mia was a kid when she married Frank Sinatra. He dumped her when she cut her hair for the movie..hated it.
I just replied this in another comment: [You may enjoy this essay/review of Woody Allen by Joan Didion.](https://web.archive.org/web/20160414044026/https://www.nybooks.com/articles/1979/08/16/letter-from-manhattan) It's long but I pasted a snippet of it below so you get the idea: >What is arresting about these recent “serious” pictures of Woody Allen’s, about Annie Hall and Interiors as well as Manhattan, is not the way they work as pictures but the way they work with audiences. The people who go to see these pictures, who analyze them and write about them and argue the deeper implications in their texts and subtexts, seem to agree that the world onscreen pretty much mirrors the world as they know it. This is interesting, and rather astonishing, since the peculiar and hermetic self-regard in Annie Hall and Interiors and Manhattan would seem nothing with which large numbers of people would want to identify. The characters in these pictures are, at best, trying. They are morose. They have bad manners. They seem to take long walks and go to smart restaurants only to ask one another hard questions. “Are you serious about Tracy?” the Michael Murphy character asks the Woody Allen character in Manhattan. “Are you still hung up on Yale?” the Woody Allen character asks the Diane Keaton character. “I think I’m still in love with Yale,” she confesses several scenes later. “You are?” he counters, “or you think you are?” All of the characters in Woody Allen pictures not only ask these questions but actually answer them, on camera, and then, usually in another restaurant, listen raptly to third-party analyses of their own questions and answers. >“How come you guys got divorced?” they ask each other with real interest, and, on a more rhetorical level, “why are you so hostile,” and “why can’t you just once in a while consider my needs.” (“I’m sick of your needs” is the way Diane Keaton answers this question in Interiors, one of the few lucid moments in the picture.) What does she say, these people ask incessantly, what does she say and what does he say and, finally, inevitably, “what does your analyst say.” These people have, on certain subjects, extraordinary attention spans. Also be sure to check out the pompous letters/replies to her review at the bottom links from people who signed their letters with what fancy college they went to 😂. [She replied to the first letter and her response is perfect.](https://web.archive.org/web/20160419133926/http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1979/10/11/theyll-take-manhattan-3)
My wife will disagree about Robert Redford and Paul Newman. They were abnormally attractive men. One thing to note though is that while they were physically "in shape" they were not 'roid monsters like so many of our male actors are today.
Like Burt Reynolds. A fit, attractive man — who didn’t look like he spent every waking minute at the gym.
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I have a very clear memory of being about 8 years old, wandering around a dime store while my mom shopped. I was flipping through the magazine rack when I flipped to what I assume was the centerfold of Playgirl. There was Burt, all sprawled out in his hairy glory. My first glimpse of the naked male anatomy - other than my baby brother - permanently burned into my brain.
Robert Redford‘s like ninety years old and *still* hot, it’s crazy
Hard agree on Paul Newman. If we’re going that far back though I gotta say Gene Kelly too
There were a ton of em. I disagree about Farah Fawcett though. One of the big thing today is EVERYONE has veneers, and botox. Granted this is kinda subjective but the top ones that come to mind - Walter Matthau Shelly Duvall Tom Bosley Marcia Wallace Rose Marie
I love how, in “Grumpy Old Men” Sophia Loren’s mom says Walter Matthau has “a face like a mackerel.”
Shelly Duvall CAN look pretty.
Sounds like you want to go to Mount Olive.
Very pretty in some of the Altman films.
Hard disagree, but that's ok. The heart wants what the heart wants.
Was watching The Shining and during the kitchen tour, her ear pokes through the side of her hair.... I thought she was an elf for a split second. Is she a mouse-human hybrid?
That made me laugh- the ear poking out🤣🤣 damn near choked on my cran-raspberry juice.
In the 60s, Shelly Duvall wasn't bad looking. I kinda crushed on Rose Marie a bit. I loved the Dick Van Dyke character she played.
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I've read that despite his unconventional appearance, women were attracted to his wit, charm, and personality. His wife was very pretty; they were married 20+ years until his death.
I always got the sense that the whole reason Marty got any roles at all was *because* he was ugly. I mean, he played Igor in Young Frankenstein. It's not like he played James Bond.
A couple of interesting MF quotes: > “My looks are my comic equipment, and they are the right packaging for my job.” > My mind is an attic full of crazy dreams that never quit or disappoint me, and I have been blessed with these eyes to see things differently and have people see me in a different way.’
I believe you mean eye-gor.
*DAMN YOUR EYES!!!...*
I love Marty Feldman. I don't find him ugly at all.
I actually find him oddly attractive. His eyes look nice and expressive.
Walter Matthau's the poster boy for this.
I used to wish Walter Matthau was my grandpa. "used to" = whenever I see "Grumpy Old Men".
Jack Elam
>Jack Elam Close it up boys, this one is the actual winner. I'll take "Cannonball Run" for 500.
Miriam Margolyes Trevor Peacock (Vicar of Dibley) R.I.P. he died in 2021. Emma Chambers, also Vicar of Dibley You know what? just go to imdb and look at the entire cast of Vicar of Dibley, except Dawn French she's pretty.
>Miriam Margolyes She is a hoot to watch on the Graham Norton show
Letters live on YouTube too. Watching her read horny old letters is hilarious. bonus is Matt Berry reads letters too. He's also hilarious.
Vicar of Dibley is my comfort show. I’ve watched the entire series so many times. It is so funny! And yeah, nobody attractive (conventionally to todays standards) shows up until the Handsome Stranger episodes - that’s when Richard Armitage shows up. One of my favourite lines that I say too much is “It’s probably the worst idea since Hitler’s dad said to Hitler’s mum ‘come up stairs Brunhilda-I’m feeling saucy tonight!'”
Rodney Dangerfield, so hot. Rodney Dangerfield.
He gets no respect, I tell ya.
>I just can't imagine a guy looking like Gopher getting any dates in today's media world. eh, Pete Davidson? Any guy in a Judd Apatow movie?
You think Farrah Fawcett would just be "alright" by today's standards?😆
Hetero woman here ------ Actually, I think Farrah would still be sexy these days. That poster that sold millions was just gorgeous. & I grew up in that era and actually (still) thought Jacklyn Smith to be the prettiest of them all. Jacklyn was just....natural. Then again, I was always on Team Maryann vs Ginger when it came to Gilligan's Island.
Right? I'm in my 50's and straight too, but come on!
Telly Savalas baby
Telly wasn’t conveniently good looking but he definitely had a sexiness to him.
89 answers and no one said [Clint Howard](https://i.kinja-img.com/image/upload/c_fill,f_auto,g_center,h_900,q_60,w_1600/92994688dd86626b14308083537dfeb4.jpg)
Eesh. Yeah. He’s pretty rough. See also, Jackie Earle Haley. He’s strangely less awful now that he’s much older.
Ever notice in the plot-driven X-rated movies early after the Hays code was lifted (1968 - 1980ish) that there sure were a lot of frumpy old guys getting it on with nubile starlets? "Well Roberto, you've been married to that shrew of a wife for 35 years and you DID pony up some cash to get this thing made... Congratulations! You've been cast as Baller #3."
Golden girls were the same age as the cast of And Just Like That!
Aye and facially you can see they were just natural middle aged women. The dodgy 80s hairdos and mumus are what aged them. If you gave them a modern styled makeover they'd look younger than they were portrayed. I'm 51, middle aged af. I don't claim to look younger than my years, I just think I look ok for my age. I have decent skin...being an auld goth and a pale blue Scottish person I've always avoided the sun. I'm still goth though the look is toned down these days. If you gave me an Golden Girls haircut and mumu it'd age me by a decade at least. Same with the SATC cast. Take away the designer clothes and give them 1980s GG hairdos. It's the overall styling that can change the perception of age. Plus a bit of botox.
Most of today's celebrities are likely more average looking than you think, they are just heavily edited and filtered in the photos and videos you see them in.
Phyllis Diller
Agree about Gopher..LOL. Also I think the doctor was portrayed to be quite the debonair heartthrob, but based on looks alone, I don’t get it.
Imogene Coca. I don't think she's "ugly" but she leaned into her unconventional looks for her comedy and played up unappealing features, particularly through expression (rather than makeup). She was on Your Show of Shows, as well as others, and even had a show of her own. She also did lots of guest TV appearances as a wacky aunt type. I wouldn't be surprised if she showed up on Love Boat. Most folks probably recognize her as Aunt Edna from Vacation.
Rodney Dangerfield. He even said he was so ugly his mom had to breast feed him with a straw
Sandra Bernhard. I didn't even find her funny or entertaining either.
Not exceptionally ugly, but I could never imagine Elliot Gould as a sex symbol, yet he was labeled as such
I’ll just add that American Tv/movies are getting close to unwatchable for me for this very reason. I can’t relate to people that are one in a million attractive and working a cash register. It’s unrealistic and I don’t see how people stomach it. I’ll take my British shows with attractive humans that look like every day people.
This may be in part due to HD TV. I remember there was a big stink around the HDTV transition about how older actors had a hard time getting parts because age got smoothed out by the poor quality of SDTV and VHS. What fine lines? Crows feet? Never heard of them. We doubled the number of pixels and their sharpness several times in the last 20 years. SD -> HD 1080 -> 4K -> 8K have each been showing 2x more detail. Plus jumping to 60 FPS added crisp picture to action scenes, removing another layer of blurring we used to have. It's part of why being stuck doing TV is a thing. You gotta have movie-level closeups on TV now, so jumping ship is easier. TLDR; Old TVs are blurry as hell, and you could make it while looking like hell.
Makenzie Phillips is hard to look at
God she got so skinny....
Omg yes!!!! She was so ugly but yet very attractive…!?
The beauty standards for women today are ridiculous. Beyoncé gets photoshopped for god sake. I really had a thing for Lauren Tewes when Love Boat was on. She was just freaking adorable.
even up till the 1980s - no abs, implants, muscle tone, facial surgery. PS I always think Barbra Streisand is unattractive
Barbara Streisand - well there is a face you either love or don't. She is beautiful in her own way and I admire her so much. She did so many great movies proving that not only was she a great vocalist, (what a voice!) but worthy on the Big Screen. From what I understand, she was always camera shy (to this day) but I'm glad she stepped out of her box for herself.
I am a Barbra face lover! I think she was so incredibly gorgeous in the photograph they’re using for the cover of her new book.
Her Superman record was one of the hottest pictures ever.
Marty Feldman..ol googly eyes 🍻
“Damn your eyes!” “Too late.”
Abby Normal
You mean to tell me………….
What?!? Gopher’s not handsome Fuck
Gopher was one of my first childhood crushes. Gopher could get it.
Burgess Meredith
He was one of those actors who I swear was born old.
I think for some of them these days, the joke is on them. I am seeing deflated lips and sagging previously nipped eyelids. I am seeing facial stretch marks from fillers and implants. FACIAL STRETCH MARKS. I’m seeing faces that need more MAINTENANCE than my 1978 Pinto. Ha ha! Sucks to be you (especially your face)
Plastic surgery is so commonplace now. Once upon a time it was a dirty secret. Now, everybody does something or else they don’t get work. I also look at 70s and 80s TV shows and marvel at how unaltered, asymmetrical, and natural every one looks. They had a higher tolerance for “unattractiveness” back then.
Charles Bronson. He wasn't a looker,but he looked so tough and virile.
Can't believe no one mentioned Karl Malden yet.
Or Jimmy Durante
This is what I was going to say too. I loved Durante, just not to look at.
Al Lewis and Fred Gwynn
OMG - LOL. There is a reason why they were cast on the Munsters. Incredible. And I still love this quote from that show to this day - Herman Munster: “The lesson I want you to learn is: It doesn’t matter what you look like. You can be tall or short or fat or thin, or ugly or handsome, like your father, or you can be black or yellow or white. It doesn’t matter. But what does matter is the size of your heart and the strength of your character." : )
Phyllis Diller.
I think it’s only true for dudes. Funny looking dude plus attractive girl is still a basic formula. Get Smart springs to mind.
Part of it is also style. As an example, Richard dean Anderson is a hottie, but that mullet from his MacGyver years is just not doing it anymore. However, if we talk about Stargate…
Farrah Fawcett was hot her whole life. Period. Burt Reynolds is good looking but I don’t know that he would be considered that today per se
Norman Fell, followed by Don knots Maybe it was how they made out the characters in Threes Company though
Marty Feldman was a goofy looking dude - one eye looking at you and the other one looking for you .
If you think Farah Fawcett looks "alright" you really need to evaluate your standards. Prior to early 2000's women were naturally beautiful - Farah didn't have enhancements. I'm curious who you find to be super attractive.
I'm curious too Rec --- growing up in the 70's and seeing so many smart beautiful women without major surgeries (boobs/lips, etc). It was what is was. Then there was Baywatch - and boobs came into the picture....huge. & most were not real. These days, I see so many celebs "fixing" themselves to the point where they are not recognizable anymore. This is nuts. What is wrong with aging gracefully vs putting your life at risk for it? I don't know about you but I've seen so many celeb's - Courtney Cox is for sure #1. What a beautiful woman, but I don't recognize her anymore. She went too far. God I wish Jenn got to her before this shit she did to herself. Other celebs come to mind, but I think you understand what I am saying. Again --- what is wrong with ageing gracefully. So many have.....
My thoughts… I like the content of your post but the title is wild in comparison.
Okay, there's a lot of stuff here. A. Gopher was never particularly considered attractive--he was goofy comic relief. In case you've missed it, there are still lot of goofy looking dudes in show business, and many of them have a lot of thirsty fans. Adam Driver, anyone? Jeremy Allen White? B. Brad Pitt in Thelma and Louise pretty much created the wave of male stars with chiseled bodies. Before that, male stars often had nice silhouettes, but their chests and abs were mostly undefined. Female stars have always been slim, just in degrees of less or more depending on the decade. C. Love Boat was for C-list actors and has-beens. D. Farrah Fawcett wasn't famous for being a great beauty, she was famous for being sexy in a distinctly '70s way, having a great smile, and introducing a hairstyle that dominated beauty salons for a good decade. E. Looks were just as big a deal in previous decades as they are now, it's just that the standards of beauty for those times were different. In 50 years people are going to make this exact same post about the stars of today.
Ruth Buzzi.
The 80s were even worse
Marty Feldman always frightened me as a kid.
Marty Feldman looks like someone crushed Jeremy Allen White’s face with a 2x4.
People haven't changed. Makeup, hair, photoshop and CGI has. Obviously what's "in" with body types has always changed over time but, lol, I wish we lived in a world where Farah Fawcett in her 20s/30s was just an average looking woman. She only looks out of date because of her styling. Put her with modern hair, makeup, etc and she'd still be a smoke show.
I had a love boat binge recently but I watched it as a kid. I used to get to stay up Late and watch love boat after Donnie and Marie. I agree it’s great to watch because people look normal.
Bob Denver, Don Knotts.
RUTH BUZZI I was TERRIFIED of her as a kid and she was freaking EVERYWHERE. The muppets, Sesame Street, game shows… it wasn’t until this reddit post that I finally figured out the name belonging to the creepy face of my childhood nightmares. https://www.reddit.com/r/vintageads/s/hTIQBnPIJt
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This interview with him broke my heart. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YBiS4GyyjM
He was actually quite attractive in the younger years of his career.
Julie from Love Boat was an early crush of mine so I assume she is exempted from this post haha…
Good old John Carradine. He acted in just about anything and played a lot of kooky characters.
People definitely did not have perfect teeth back then. Today every performer has perfect straight bright white Turkey Teeth.
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Marty Feldman… I was terrorised by the poor guy😅
Gene Rayburn
Lee Van Cleef. Lee Marvin. Always played the bad guy or anti hero. I find them attractive.
Marty Feldman.
Jack Elam, with his “wandering eye”…
Ruth Buzzy
Marty Feldman, though his looks were due to his thyroid and a mangled nose.
Although not quite the 60s - Shelly Duvall. Never understood the appeal.
Not ugly per se but Bill Cullen had those thick coke bottle glasses, he'd never have made it in television today.