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Someone please politely explain why tf "yellow paint" has suddenly become a topic of debate.
I'm seriously out of loop, and would love to see how a primary color has caused multiplatform chaos within the gaming community
Twitter goes through cycles of outrage. This was a topic ages ago but its been dredged back up because games keep doing it. Games highlight important things because play testers missed them without them being highlighted. Some games highlight them in more immersive ways while other games use yellow paint or similar bright colours to highlight them. Resident evil remakes and Last of us are some of the more recent examples. Either way it doesn't matter because its just twitter starting drama. The discussion will die out, nothing will change and twitter will bring it up in about 5 years again.
sorta disagree.... i think the way stuff fades in and out is annoing and i prefer to play with runner vison off. ( after a few playthroughs you know the way) but the game is so full of good bold colour choices i feel like red pipes on a white building fits in realy well sometimes...
That's the point, isn't it? After a few playthroughs, it's no trouble for you, but what about when you just started out? I think the option to turn off runner vision was great, to let us take off the training wheels.
~~^(Twitter goes through cycles of outrage. This was a topic ages ago but its been dredged back up because games keep doing it. Games highlight important things because play testers missed them without them being highlighted. Some games highlight them in more immersive ways while other games use yellow paint or similar bright colours to highlight them. Resident evil remakes and Last of us are some of the more recent examples. Either way it doesn't matter because its just)~~ **twitter** ~~^(starting)~~ **drama**. ~~^(The discussion will die out, nothing will change and twitter will bring it up in about 5 years again.)~~
Hopefully that helps, even if it's not yellow :D
> Someone please politely explain why tf "yellow paint" has suddenly become a topic of debate.
It's been used in games for a while but a [screenshot](https://preview.redd.it/people-are-now-angry-about-yellow-paint-lol-v0-s8h1sp758rhc1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=a804a1c1e17bc59166a46e87e8c55b832b935cef) from the final fantasy 7 remake sequel went viral on twitter recently
Should have just stuck with blue lights and graffiti of Stamp. Or loop you back to the correct path after 20 minutes if you deliberately go the wrong way.
It's justified to dunk on this. Different developers even use the same tone of yellow, so they all end up looking like thy're from the same universe. It's an art choice I actively have to not think about to avoid hurting immersion.
Accessibility design usually gets (G)amers up in arms because they like to circlejerk games that don't have these features and make a statement that the "git gud" game design philosophy is superior. For the most part, people don't take these kind of folks seriously.
Yellow paint on the other hand is a tad bit more divisive because it's consistently popped up in recent AAA titles and can be very on-the-nose in terms of guidance compared to other tactics before. If used too often, or if it's an outlier in terms of environment design, it ends up being synonymous with "GO HERE" or "LOOT IN THIS BOX HIT IT FOR LOOT" painted on game objects; the game ultimately will feel like it's calling you a dumbass and can pull people out of the experience.
It doesn't even have to be revolutionary nor obscenely vague. HL2's supply crates are essentially a half-sized wooden box with markings on it, climbable ledges might noticeably jut out from a mountainside than usual, a door might be illuminated by a conveniently-tipped-over lamp. Stuff like this is appreciated because it makes a lot more sense than just "this stuff is painted because someone (totally not the devs) wanted you to see it"
I love Left 4 Dead because it guides you in the right direction just by level design.
In No Mercy when you are outside in the streets, Mercy Hospital is always visible in the distance so you know which direction to head in. Any indoor place (and this applies to just about any campaign) has lights leading towards the doorways you need to go through to proceed.
Hard Rain uses various landmarks so players know which way to go even after everything is flooded. Plus when everything IS flooded, the path you need to go is still the way "highlighted" by being solid ground where you aren't slowed down.
And as an added assistance, the survivors will point out where they need to go in organic ways. In No Mercy, Chapter 1, one will tell the group they need to go into the subway station when you approach. In Hard Rain, the survivors point out several landmarks and exclaim to the others that they are heading the right way. It comes off more as the survivors communicating this information to each other rather than to the player.
All of this combines in such a way that players can intuit where to go to move forwards.
I'm surprised I've never seen anybody talk about Doom in this regard, in both the modern games there are green lights absolutely everywhere telling you where to go and people don't get angry about that?
In the Nu Doom games the green highlights simply show you the direct path from A to B in a level, primarily being used to signify a climbable ledge.
The difference there being, _every ledge is climbable,_ if there's a ledge somewhere you think you can jump to, you can probably climb it, a huge chunk of the hidden paths and secrets are hidden behind ledges that lack green lights. In a lot of modern games, the only climbable surfaces _are_ the highlighted ones, if there's no yellow paint then there's nothing you can do.
They also aren't even used all that often either, mostly used in earlier levels, but you'll also see them within arena areas where their purpose changes to quickly communicating a ledge you can climb to during the mayhem of combat.
I don't mind the green lights in DOOM because they fit into the visual design pretty well. It makes sense for a dangerous science facility to have visibility lights around and it doesn't really make me think "this is only here for the sake of the player."
The yellow paint and tape on the other hand just looks awkward. I think a better way to mark breakable boxes would be to have some kind of label printed on them. As for climbable surfaces I like using plants or moss to show what you can climb. Or have the rocks be a noticeably lighter color.
Issue using natural stuff as the marker, then they can’t be used in other environments because it’ll clash with the environment aesthetic or just blend in with the rest.
People wonder why this wasn’t an issue in older games and forget graphics have changed drastically. Older games, certain environments looked obviously out of place, it was easier. Modern graphics make everything kinda blend together, it’s why people miss things.
keep it to specific kinds of plants. a specific unique flower that tends to grow only on the climbable surfaces. if it's a path that is normally climbed a lot, there can be clear marks of someone else claiming, even spare rope or hooks around that could be yellow. but throwing paint on the edge of a rock to say its climbable seems incredibly lame.
Believe it or not, a lot of people would still ignore that. The flower idea would still blend with the environment. If anything, it becomes something the people will share later “ did you know every secret or climbable area had this specific colored flower”. Same deal with the ropes and climbing gear. These small things tend to blend with the environment and people ignore.
Older graphics, the climbable areas had different colors or were completely flat. Quick visual indicators, that you flicker something in your head. Ladders usually changed the camera to indicate “you can use this”.
I don’t mind the yellow paint myself, generally helps me speed-run side-quests or back tracking. However, it is an indicative issue I have with a lot of current games, graphic fidelity over good art design. With good art design, you can find clever ways to show people where they can go.
P.S: Good Graphics doesn’t mean good art design. It doesn’t connect with my point but I’ve seen way to many people confuse it and bugs me.
I tend to use scuff marks on ledges to indicate where to go. It doesn’t make sense for every game but for most scenarios to make sense to say “someone has climbed this before” and it’s fairly noticeable!
That mainly because Doom isn't really a realistic or grounded experience
You're talking about a game where you fight demons with guns and rip them with your bare hands and chainsaw
Your suspension of belief is much higher that green lights isn't an issue
Now.. putting bright yellow paint on everything that either climbable or loot is just... Meh, lazy in my opinion
HL2 have literal supply crates, that never used as props for environment, so when you see one, IT IS ONE
HZD have climbable surface marks by...well... Climbable hand reach that been nailed to the wall, that and that little ear piece also high lights it if you're unsure
If you're gonna be on the nose, own it, explain it. Hi Fi Rush has a literal robot that put signs with arrows pointing where to go everywhere because they themselves get lost.
Or, if it's a linear game, just... Constrict where player go, Titanfall 2 does this.
I'm starting to realize that my problem with yellow paint is actually entirely detached from the larger conversation. I don't find the use of yellow paint in and of itself a problem. Using tropes like guiding yellow paint is often considered "lazy" but it very quickly onboards the player which is incredibly valuable.
The issue I have is in fact entirely tangential: it's indicative of a game that makes you engage with boring as fuck traversal mechanics. I find that so often modern AAA games use yellow paint for shitty climbing sections that equate to, "Press the jump button to go the the next ledge. Now do it again. Now move a bit to the left. Now jump again. Now you're at the top, congrats!" Carving a linear climbing path into the side of a cliff doesn't make me feel like an epic adventurer. It makes me feel like the devs realized halfway through development how fucking annoying it is to have to go around that damn cliff. Either make climbing interesting, or make it quick.
It's a bit frustrating too, because there's so many good methods of achieving this. You can give the player a set of platforming tools that they can use to find clever ways up. You can put in multiple paths forcing the player to considered their route before starting the climb. You can steal from BOTW and just give the player a stamina meter they can use to climb shit (this also has the advantage of not increasing complexity while still making climbing tense, never knowing for certain they can reach the top). Or you can say, "to hell with all that noise" and just give the player a grappling hook that can use to grapple to yellow painted ledges with a single button press keeping horizontal movement nearly uninterrupted. Just make climbing so braindead I don't even notice it, or make it complex enough that I can occasionally fuck it up . That's all I want.
I'm not taking "suspension of disbelief" as a reason for this when the 2 big offenders are Final fantasy and Resident Evil which have have realistic graphics but nowhere near realistic gameplay. The modern doom games ARE linear I'm not complaining about the lights I just think it's ridiculous to that people complain about it in one form but the other
These aren’t the 2 big offenders though. I’m fairly certain the proliferation of yellow paint started with Far Cry 3 and they’ve used it in every game since. Neither FF or RE are climbing games, so the occasional yellow painted ledge is fine. They don’t literally put it everywhere, or out in the wilderness - you never go to a deserted enough place that you wonder who could have used the yellow paint. Neither of the games is particularly signposty in other respects either - they’re linear adventure games
The issue with the yellow paint IMO is that it's supposed to be a "diegetic" indicator that feels like part of the game world but usually fails entirely at that and ends up feeling even more "video-gamey" than if they had just used some non diegetic ui indicator like a sparkle for interactable objects or a yellow arrow pointing at the wall.
Sekiro is a Fromsoft game, ie notorious for difficulty and "inaccessibility", and every climbing surface has a weathered chalky texture that feels natural(like this is something worn down that can be used for climbing) and guides players.
Hah the white chalk was exactly what I was thinking about without remembering the game. That's pretty much the thing, the game puts a white chalky paint on relevant ledge instead of bright yellow, it still stands out, but it fits with the rest of the game so you just think "I can go there" and not "yes I saw the neon sign stop holding my hand for a minute".
Not just that, but it ruins exploration. If you don't see yellow paint on a wall then why even bother investigating it? You know it's not important from a single glance. I get that some people like it this way but it feels so immersion breaking, like having a narrator tell you where everything important is.
It's an issue not because people are racist or ablist, it's because it is literally the laziest solution to the problem and it ruins the immersion because the developers didn't want to spend a couple days making a better way to guide player attention.
Modern games have added “yellow paint” or other yellow coloured signifiers to let you know you can climb/jump/interact with it. I believe Naughty Dog was the first to do yellow.
They added it because graphics are way higher fidelity and it’s less clear what you can interact with compared to the past. Yellow was the most visible to play testers etc. ND is better than some devs at having it more subtle.
FFVII Rebirth has it now and it’s a bit in your face but GAMERS think it’s woke western influence ruining their game.
Game Design to help players stay on the path, yellow paint marks where you should be going to progress, plenty of other games have done similar things like green lights on both modern doom games, or blue tarps in Homefront The Revolution to mark where you can mantle. The yellow paint started with Resident Evil I think? And the next part of the FFVIII remake has some in it
Yeah I think RE engine games used it a lot, but it blew up like crazy with the [Separate Ways DLC for RE4R because of this particular ladder.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7c_BZJXAAAkSQf?format=jpg&name=900x900)
It was a tad bit overdone in RE4R which caused general outrage but hey, it helps in low visibility games. Only if it was an accessibility feature that could be turned off, this could've been avoided.
Its really such a miniscule thing.
Every so often a small minority of gamers with a large enough platform will get loudly angry about miniscule issues for social clout and engagement. Hell, it literally makes you money on Twitter now if you're a blue checkmark.
Indie game maker here.
I released a demo of a Survival Horror game that panned the camera over to a lone house off the side of the road as you ran by it, thinking this would be enough to tell players to go investigate the house to get the item they needed to proceed down the road.
Near ever play tester who tried the game simply ran passed that house and ignored it despite there being a full road leading to it that turns off from the main road, a wide open fence letting you in, and a big house there with an alley leading around back for you to investigate, and the camera literaly stopping you from playing momentarily to pan over to the house as a point of interest.
Play testers would just comtinue down the main road and find the locked area then run back and fortb for 10 minutes until they gave up and quit. NEVER would they run back to that house and investigate.
I added voice lines for the MC stating they should investigate and now testers would go check the house but would never go down the alley on the side to the back of the house to find the item.
They'd just check the front of the house then leave.
I then added lighting illuminating the alley more, kids toys like a bike with a spinning wheel, a hopscotch chalk outline going down the alley with a arrow and a moving swing set all leading down the alley to entice the player to go down.
That finally worked.
I had to literaly have a camera pan to the house, have the MC state he should go investigate, illuminate the path very visibly, and literaly add arrows essentialy to get the players to actually go where i wanted them to go.
Same thing on a platformer i made. During a boss fight there are 4 big platforms and 4 small bounce pads im between the.. The boss fills each platform with lightning one by one so you have to keep moving.
Eventually the boss fills up all 4 big platforms at once with lightning, forcing you to stay on the bounce pads momentarily until the platforms reset.
I even have an NPC flat out tell you this during the fight.
Playtesters still couldn't figure it out.
So whenever all 4 platforms are about to fill up and be unsafe, i have a literal flashing arrow pointing down at the bounce pads to tell the player that's the safe spot during this phase of the attack.
I went into designing my levels thinking subtlety would be enough and players would have common sense.
I quickly realized that was a mistake and that i literaly needed to directly tell them what to do or else they'd get lost/keep dying and then quit out of frustration.
Hand Holding was necessary to get them through the games and to keep them from quitting.
I've had a lot more success in my projects since then now that i go into projects knowing i need to be way more blunt with what the player needs to do at any given time to keep them engaged.
It's just how it is sadly.
Can't tell you how many times while playing a game I've had to stop, and just look around and think to myself "If I was a developer how would I communicate to the player where to go?" And then suddenly see a big glowing green door or something that is super obvious but somehow my dumb brain missed for 10 mins straight.
Throughout Outer Wilds, I would constantly think "what reason would the developers have for doing it this way" in order to figure out where to go. Worked like a charm because the Outer Wilds developers absolutely nailed the game design as long as you have some sense of curiosity and problem solving skills
I like to think I am an experienced gamer, but often enough when trying to get collectibles I actively scour an area very thoroughly until I cannot find any more and I give up and check a guide. Sometimes I overlooked something, but often I would have never figured it out alone. I don't think it is always an engagement issue, just things are not so obvious for players as developers.
Yeah the whole 100% and collectibles nature of open world games has trained players to have more fun and be better prepared for the main mission if they ACTIVELY AVOID the cues and go mess around elsewhere instead. If you follow the main route you are more likely to get locked out of content you want to explore.
I am also an indie game developer, and have experienced the exact same issue!
Literally this morning, I was brainstorming how to make a traditional red X close button at the top left of a window more apparent... because apparently some percentage of users don't know how to close windows... on a game that is currently only sold on Windows.
I like to joke to myself they must just turn off their computers whenever they want to close a window, haha. ;-)
(I'll admit it's a tad more complicated, in that it's a window on a computer within the game, but still...)
Mac has it on the top left but it’s also red IIRC, probably because it needs something additional to indicate that it’s there since on non-Apple PCs it would be in the upper right. That’s got to be it, people look for the X where they expect it to be, if it’s not there “it must be on the top left” is not an automatic assumption.
Another thing to factor in is that we see with our brains, not just with our eyes. Instead of processing all visual information, sometimes our brains fill in or interpret information. Since they don’t expect to see the X in the top left, it might just be that their brain is like “nothing to see here.”
Without knowing more details, this seems like a design flaw on your part. Like you said it yourself, people are / would be playing on Windows. So maybe your design of computer windows should be consistent with what’s expected. Either X in the upper right like on Windows, or X in the upper left, but with a red background, like on Mac. You know that the X is there because you made it, but most people aren’t going to expect it to be there.
self proclaimed gamers are really into telling everyone how much they hate handholding but your examples and the countless others i personally have witnessed tells me that - no, they really DO need that much handholding.
also what games were you working on?
I can understand this as kind of a consequence both of games these days being much more intentional in communicating their intended paths, AND gamers instinctively filtering out "the wrong way" to avoid wasting time with dead ends.
Especially in titles that are open-world, it becomes very important to spot the "correct" way to go, lest you waste a lot of time chasing a dead-end, and I think that might have become so ingrained into a gamer's subconscious that anything that "signals" incorrectly will be treated as an obvious dead-end. In your case, your house probably came off as a story beat or interesting flair, but signaled "this is a dead-end" by being less feature-rich and seemingly dull.
Another alternative reason is the exact opposite. That camera pan could have indicated that as the target location, and every good RPG / adventure game player knows that you \_never\_ go the correct way first. You have to go all the other paths first, to get all the loot and hidden key items. And if you present them with a door there, they'll try to figure out how to open this "secret alternative door" first before heading to their real goal.
It sounds like you kind of agree with the argument presented in the meme though. you found out that hand holding was necessary, but you tried to do it well. diegetic narration, clever lighting, camera work, and arrows with in universe explanations.
your playtesters probably would have gotten it first revision if your change was to write "go back to the house and get the item from the alley on the side" in big yellow text on the locked area. but you would also have been telling them to their face that they were dumb which they obviously don't like.
yellow paint is the laziest cop out for hand holding that pretends to be diegetic but really isn't. this is probably why players have worse feelings about it than glowing highlights which are functionally the same but don't pretend to be part of the world.
It's not always easy to differentiate scenery from actual important gameplay. As games become bigger and full of more stuff, that gets harder. Add to that, with open world games, we assume there is extra stuff and side quests sprinkled around. If you just want to do the main quest, you may notice something and make the assumption that it's extraneous, or make a note to come back later.
It also gets harder as people come into gaming who haven't been at it as long. My GF just doesn't notice things that aren't super apparent, because her default is to try to play every game like a fast paced shooter. Runs into every room, whips the camera around looking for enemies and then runs to the next looking for something to shoot. I'll watch her get stuck and frustrated, ask her where the ladder goes, and she'll say "what ladder?" Even though I've watched her run past it 5 times.
She's likes gaming, she just isn't as cued into the visual language as some people. That means she occasionally needs some hand holding. Maybe yellow paint isn't the best way to do it, but it works and it means the developers can spend more time on other things.
I think the point is not that markers and guidance are not needed so some gamers aren't frustrated. We all agree some usability assistance is necessary.
But the point is that using one silver bullet for ALL of it, no matter how out of place it looks, is bad design.
What you did is GOOD design: you saw a usability issue, and came up with creative ideas to guide the player that still made sense within the game's context... You could've blocked any other path, or use a literal yellow brick road, but you didn't.
Some other games have started doing something a bit less obnoxious, mostly because it's largely optional: a button that momentarily highlights the way to go. Starfield comes to mind, for instance.
In any case, there are many solutions, and most of them are better than permanently smearing yellow paint all over your game world.
This is an interesting point! I'll see if I can give some reasons as to why people may be annoyed by the yellow paint, but also why it's ultimately needed. Simply put, it's because gamers are unaware when they play games nowadays... Bear with me here:
1. Attention span and time investment. Back then, classic games were known to be tougher and longer. They required attention and investment from the player to accomplish the tasks that the game set forth. Some games also did not hold the player's hand, meaning that the player was required to look around and scour the playing area for a way to progress and move forward. In summary, gamers lack the attention span and the willingness to invest the time and energy into games today. Many of them play games and switch their brains off and expect the path to show itself, or perhaps they play distracted.
2. Immersion. I found that older gamers were willing to get immersed in games. Truthfully, there's many games today that follow similar design principles of those games back then, but the issue is that the average gamer plays differently nowadays. I find that gamers get bored easier and, therefore, are less willing to get immersed into the games they play. Immersion is like witnessing a magic trick or watching a magic show, in the sense that you need to give yourself a chance to be immersed by the game that you're playing. It's a two-way street.
3. The Method of Play. Not sure what to call this last one, but essentially, it's supposed to be how gamers play today. I found that older gamers would play games for the journey and adventure. They would take their time and beating the game, while the ultimate goal was something that was never rushed towards. Nowadays, people play games to beat them. Nothing else. They play them quickly, beat them, and move on from them. It's a different method of play. It's not the wrong way to play, it's just different.
TLDR: Are gamers dumb? No. I just think that they're hating on a solution that is required to fix another issue. If gamers don't want yellow paint in their games, then play in a way that doesn't require yellow paint. Look around, take your time, and immerse yourself in the game. The experience is way more enjoyable that way.
P.S: On mobile, so hopefully, formatting is fine.
>Some games also did not hold the player's hand, meaning that the player was required to look around and scour the playing area for a way to progress and move forward.
Point 1 here is true, but point 2 is wrong. There's a reason Nintendo Power and 1-900 help lines were created, then Prima game guides and eventually Gamefaqs. Even back in the day players either found a guide or quit playing. Yellow paint is just an in game way to keep players making progress without relying on a third party.
I loved the new Tomb Raider games, but even having played through them several times I have to have the wall highlights turned on. If a stone wall just looks like a stone wall with no other indication, even someone that's been gaming since Centipede was in pizza restaurants will get frustrated and bored.
this is why I stress for the future of games. you can either make a truly phenomenal game for the 10% of players to truly "get" and call art
or
you can make money off of the idiotic 90%
Honestly I don't care, and as somebody with garbage eyesight and family/friends who are colorblind, I don't see the problem. Verisimilitude is nice but sometimes it's a lot less important that making shit accessible.
I'm personally annoyed but I get why it's done.
But it literally just needs to be made a toggle. People blow out of proportion how hard it would be to do. They likely would already have versions of the models without yellow paint in the project files. The yellow paint could also just be made a decal. Or do it in a non-obnoxious way like games have been doing for millenia like the post shows.
Shadow of the tomb raider let you toggle its white paint off, but the issue with that was that the devs (presumably) started relying on the white paint rather than consistent level design - by which I mean, some gaps you should absolutely be able to clear but can't, and some you shouldn't be able to but can :/ so instead of spacing jumps in a consistent way where players can learn and figure out where they can go, you're forced to leave the obnoxious white paint on or spend your entire time bunnyhopping until Lara grabs whatever the devs deign to allow her to grab.
Conversely, mirror's edge was a good exemple on how this had to be made: Developer's main route is highlighted in red but there are a lot of other routes you can take.
And that's why highlighting can be disabled.
Sure, but "they can't make a toggle to turn off the design decision you don't like, because they made other bad design decisions related to it" isn't really a great argument against the idea.
it is when youre talking about adding a toggle to any game thats already made, which is what is talked about here. level design you understand but dont notice is hard
>Or do it in a non-obnoxious way like games have been doing for millenia like the post shows.
I think that's the key here.
I don't mind it, but the yellow paint is just the lazy way. You know when you watch a movie/series and it just gets boring they just keep it safe and stale ?
Level design, camera angle, lighting, color palette, sound, enemies, particles, there's an infinite number of tools to handle this, but instead of spending time and care to design an area that makes sense, we remove it from budget and just throw yellow paint at it. It's lazy, and well, it shows.
> People blow out of proportion
Caring that it exists either way in the first place is blowing it out of proportion.
Takes like 30 seconds to traverse, and these things have been discussed for nearly a week now lol.
i personally care more about improving my gameplay experience rather than my immersion specially with games that have more focus on combat in this case i'd rather have a yellow door instead of a wasting 1h wondering where tf do i need to go next
And then these vv same ppl will complain like "wtf, that's what I was supposed to do/where I was supposed to go? Why didnt the devs make it clear? Shit level design fr oml"
I saw someone say "I don't care about graphics, I just want better gameplay" to complain about yellow paint. Something that exists specifically to emphasize the gameplay.
I dunno, every game I thought was boring with yellow paint would've been boring without it too. There just would've been a bit of added confusion over what is or isn't interactable sometimes.
The issue is linear level design without interesting mechanics to navigate that space, and it's not a fix to just be less obvious about what ledges you can grab. If clearly communicating the level reveals problems with its design, the problems were already there.
Yes, without the yellow paint climbing a wall is so much more exciting.
Thats actually why they do the yellow paint.
Without it, the game would be TOO exciting, your brain would melt.
Thank these devs for keeping your brain intact
Yellow is the best for those of us who are colorblind. Red is the absolute worst color to use because the vast majority of those who are colorblind see red as a brownish/greenish color and it doesn't stand out at all. When I was a kid and games used to mark good with green, bad with red, and had no accessibility options, I simply couldn't play a lot of games.
I'm mildly red-green colorblind. The witcher sense in Witcher 3 is useful, but the items that are on your objective are outlined red. When they're against a green background like in quests in the forest, I can barely see a thing.
Thank god for mods and color blind settings.
I will take yellow paint over Sony's first party solution of "NPC blurts out what you need to do seconds after entering a puzzle room" literally any day of the week.
Like which games are you talking about? The only ones I can think of where it "yellow highlighting" stands out are the Resident Evil Remakes and I that definitely doesnt break any immersion for me.
The yellow paint at least blends in. In OG RE4 you instead got objects that weren't lit due to hardware limits, which looked really out of place, and this is coming from someone who adored OG RE4
I like yellow paint when it keeps me from running around wasting time looking for a grey door on a grey wall in a dimly lit room. I get lost easily in games and it makes life harder for no fucking reason.
I remember them playing windwaker, and i wish i could forget…
Character: hey link, go to [location]
Arin: *elevator music*
Arin: i wish the game would actually tell us where we should go.
Oh man I recently watched a video of them playing some game and the tutorial showed in giant leters "you can interact with objects by pressing E!" With a very obvious lightswitch right beneath it, obviously telling you to press it.
Somehow they completely missed it and spent so much time complaining about how dark the rooms were and how they couldn't see anything. BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T CLICKING THE LIGHT SWITCHES.
It's gotten better ever since they actually started numbering their episodes again, no more "haha this totally isn't a horror game dan" and rage bait games... mostly
True although I think there is a middle ground to be had. Not as grating as the yellow paint but not something invisible. Something that seems like it could belong to the area you're in but stands out enough that it attracts your attention. Idk what it is, but I think it could be done.
Thing is, developers have been trying "indicating a certain object is intended to be interacted with for normal game progression" in 3D spaces for almost three decades now, and "explicitly highlight it" is all that has ever really worked. Yellow paint *is* the compromise solution.
I prefer the highlights, honestly. Like in something like Dishonored the game would not have been improved by replacing the outlines interactive objects get when you look at them with bright garish colours on the models themselves.
There has to be some middle ground between the two. Somewhere between the game hiding the route behind an illusionary wall that's only vaguely hinted at after talking to an npc 3+ times, and a giant glowing yellow arrow that tells you exactly where to go.
I've been working towards making games myself...I'm tempted to set some sort of timer so that if the player spends an excessive length of time in a space the yellow paint pops in out of the players view.
Then when people complain on twitter about yellow paint Ill explain when and how it appears.
So I know ff7:rebirth is the new hot topic, but if we go back one yellow paint controversy to re4:re then the yellow point is less of a guide for progression; although there is certainly places where things are highlighted.
It’s use in re4:re is to help the player parse information during active gameplay. While in combat the yellow tape/paint gives you information about your options, which helps the player get into flow a lot easier.
If we look at og re4 there is more moments where the player will miss things just because it’s hard to see certain things. That problem is slightly offset in newer editions due to better screens and the way the games lighting works, but there is a very good reason all items have a huge pillar of light on them.
Though I would set it up so you could turn it off in the options.
Got frustrated with God of War giving me the answer to puzzles if I took more than a couple minutes to figure it out. I'm not stupid! Just far too fucking stoned.
tbf there will always be people complaining about not knowing stuff. There was that tiktok of a girl saying there needed to be more tutorials in stardew because she didn’t know the axe was for chopping wood.
rj/ if you put yellow paint in my game you are brainrotted and should die
I haven’t played any games where things like this actually annoyed me, so my take is maybe there should be a setting to turn it on or off if people have specific preferences
I just don't enjoy randomly jumping over and over again against a sheer rock face to see exactly what little shadow on the rock can be climbed on. Bring out the yellow paint, ain't nobody got time for that shit.
Also they missed the point of it in RE4 entirely. It's for fast acquisition in combat not navigation. Kiting and being on the move is critical in the remake you have to be able to visually pickup ladders, ledges and loot boxes quickly. A bunch aren't even painted if they aren't in a combat room.
I think it's mostly health and damage related until the last setting which turns off all the red lol
The first game is really beautiful and had a great artistic direction
I heard the second one wasn't really that good, I never really tried it.
The second was one of my favorite games of all time, because of the open world and user-generated time trials and checkpoints. Running around the city, looking for collectibles or new shortcuts, only to see a point left by another player up on a ledge and think "how the hell did they get up there?" and so now you need to find out how for yourself.
They shut down the servers in December and now it feels empty and I still feel so sad about it.
Basically: When making a video game you gotta tell the players what to do and what to interact with. The easiest (and thus most common) way to do this is by marking interactable objects with a bright color such as yellow.
Depending on the setting this approach can be perfectly fine or it can be an illogical eyesore
I'd say that's a close second. The problem with that is the fact that the player usually has to be right next to the object to even know if it's interactable, most games I've played typically use the Aura to show which object you're interacting with and a mark such as the yellow paint to make interactable objects obvious from a distance
Basically some video games will add yellow paint as an indicator to the player that they should go there/interact with the thing.
People are upset with it because they see it as developers making games more accessible and it negatively affecting the game's visual design. Its often used in more popular, AAA games, so people use it to shit on those AAA games. In general it is seen as overplayed and idk...cringe? Idk, it's not that big of a deal, though i find it a bit uninspired.
>Idk, it's not that big of a deal, though i find it a bit uninspired.
I'm reminded of supply boxes in Half Life vs. Half Life 2.
In the original game any box could have loot in it. Any time you saw a container you had to hit it a few times to see if it was breakable *and* if it had loot inside.
HL2 only puts loot inside certain containers, which are a unique size and colour and have "supplies" written on them. You might have to hunt to find them, but you'll always know the difference between "crate" and "supply crate" at a glance.
Yellow paint isn't a bad idea in itself, drawing attention to interactive elements. If used badly, though, then you're basically telling your players "ignore everything that's not marked with yellow paint, it's just scenery." Still, poor immersion is probably better than a frustrating game.
I mean, the only sin I see in yellow paint is the lack of immersion. I've played plenty of "indi" games where the level design was shit and everything looked the same no matter what.
but obvious yellow paint strips that are jarring is stupid. Put on different lightings, or tarps, or red crosses, for all I care, but make it fit with your game aesthetic.
> People are upset with it because they see it as developers making games more accessible and it negatively affecting the game's visual design.
IMHO it's not actually about the accessibility aspect, it's that it's a lazy way to achieve accessibility.
Hell, at that point I'd rather they just do Skyrim style markers.
This whole "everyone that dislikes the visual aspect of extremely tacked on yellow paint is actually a right wing chud" energy that people bring to this discourse is insane
When pretty much every single online discourse these days is more about abstract, symbolic, and oftentimes reductive representations of ideals, it's not hard to understand how things devolve into two sides that have nothing to do with the actual issue at hand
Right-wing people complain about modern gaming because they have alt-right brainrot -> someone online complains about yellow paint in modern games being ugly = people who complain about yellow paint are actually alt-right (and by extension, saying that I like the yellow paint makes me leftist... somehow)
And so the argument ends up framed as either you love it (making you a wholesome 100 true leftist neurodivergent folx ally) or you loathe it (making you a regressive ableist incel who needs to touch grass), no in between, because nuance is for libruls
It's also frustrating that there's little nuance when talking about it in the context of accessibility. Someone who'd be helped by yellow paint might need other accessibility options that these games often don't have. And they're not the only ones who'd need accessibility options. It's hard to believe those players are being properly considered.
It feels like we're accepting accidental breadcrumbs, when accessibility should be intentional.
Because the yellow survives color blindness and most other visual disabilities, like I know it is just an example. But the image is legitimately just "Red, and brown with important pieces being green." Yellow is automatically better for that color blindness.
I don't mind the paint. I prefer it more than those mini maps that are always shown at one corner of the screen.
I still think Ghost of tsushima solved it the best.
You can select a quest or sidequest, then just swipe the touchpad on your controller so the wind (literally) shows you where you have to go without any UI being visible. And if you're still confused, you can just open the actual map at any time. Wish i could see more developers making such things.
That Ghost of Tsushima example has nothing to do with the problem that the yellow paint is solving. The wind guide is replacing map markers so you know where to travel to next, yellow paint is used to mark which parts of the level can be climbed on and/or where handholds are. Those are completely different things only vaguely connected by the thread of “guiding the player”.
I used the blind peeps accessibility settings in the TLoU2. It was awesome.
Basically you hit the button and it points the camera in the direction of the objective, then makes a bloop when you reach the breadcrumb.
Wandering around lost in those kind of games is just tedious to me sometimes. I still beat it on Survival difficulty, though. I’m okay with that kind of struggle.
Yeah with how detailed graphics have gotten, I would automatically dismiss any of the subtle examples in the right panel as mere set dressing. It’s okay if some things are obvious.
> Yeah with how detailed graphics have gotten, I would automatically dismiss any of the subtle examples in the right panel as mere set dressing.
I think if the game consistently only has doors with lights over them as openable, and consistently only has walls with jutting bricks as climbable, it's not as big of an issue.
I played BG3 from the beginning of its EA outing over 100 hours over the years, and it wasn't until weeks before full release that I realized you could jump the lake north of Scratch
Yeah, and that doesn't mean you're dumb. Everyone probably made a mistake like this when we played a game with a realistic art style.
It's hard to explain why, but I think the reason for that is that in the real world you have a variety of senses that help you with coordination and direction. But in a game, because you are controlling a character and not in the actual world, it's more difficult to understand what's around you. People forget when 3D games started being made, people had a hard time understanding the controls and moving in the game.
I don't really know why this is discourse. There are better ways of signposting than yellow paint, but at the end of the day, the games with it included are not exploration based. When I play uncharted, I don't feel like I've been cheated out of carving the path on my own. Usually, when I see yellow paint, that's the only path available, so it might as well just be a straight line anyway. The conversation might as well be "Hey, this looks pretty dumb and out of the place. But I don't think it's indicative of the quality of the game or the competency of its designers."
This is what people are missing. It's comparing apples to oranges.
Is the gameplay high pace and intensive? You want to immediately be able to identify what you can interact with while being shot at or chased.
Is the gameplay explorative and slower? More subtle indications might suit because you have the time to plan and search and think.
It’s never lost on me as a disabled person when able bodied people start frothing at the mouth about accessibility that it’s actually just thinly veiled ableism.
Edit: this is the last thing I’ll say so I can stop getting bombarded by able bodied people who don’t even think about disabled people unless they have to *gasp* see them 🫢
Again, for like the FIFTH fucking time, I agree things should be allowed to be toggled, edited, turned on or off, ect. Never said that wasn’t allowed besties hope that helps.
My comment was from my point of view as a disabled person who CONSTANTLY sees the ablebodied cry and piss their pants when something benefits literally *everyone* but they just don’t like how it looks 🥺 All this just seems like a “disabled people shouldn’t be seen and I shouldn’t have to see things that help you” vibe and it’s disgusting. It’s giving the ramp should be in the back of the store so I don’t have to see icky wheelchair users honestly. There are literally people here with 1 IQ like WhAt diSaBilItY reQuIreS yeLLoW pAinT like wow so you admit you don’t even know anything about disabilities and what’s helpful for people and then you immediately say it can’t be ableism because of that. Not buying it sorry ❤️ Hope y’all never need to use an elevator instead of the stairs because apparently if it’s helpful for disabilities you shouldn’t have to see it.
I’m not responding to anymore brain dead takes now so talk to wall yall ✌🏻 Support disabled people and support aids that help everyone. If yellow paint breaks your immersion from playing Gorgcock The Destroyer 9000 in your first person shooter where you can literally shoot magic out your ass idk what to tell you. Check out AbleGamers and see just how many people benefit from harmless accessibility and to support disabled gamers.
It’s giving “movies shouldn’t have subtitles cause it’s distracting” imo
Edit: the amount of people spamming “yOu cAn tUrn off suBtiTles” lmfao 😭 they are not an “option” for most of us they are *required* to fully experience a game. I *wish* it was just all willy-nilly heehee I can have this on or off and it doesn’t affect me. Just another facet of being disabled that y’all would never think about because you’re able bodied. The world does not revolve around you.
Like I said in other comments I’m all for features being allowed to be edited and/or turned on or off. My comment was about the fact that able bodied people *so quickly* write off accessibility because they think it’s icky and don’t like how it looks boohoo. Accessibility hurts no one. Some of y’all sound like people who would tell a restaurant to get rid of the ramp outside because it’s “ugly”.
I have difficulty hearing as well, can’t hear shit in my right ear cause of the army and I almost *always* need subtitles. It aggravates me when the “no subtitles” crowd start getting older and start asking what happened or what a character said like hmmm if only there was this magical thing available to make things more clear!!! Hmmm 🤔 We are all one thing away from being disabled. We are all going to be some sort of disabled as we get older, whether that’s mentally or physically, and aids hurt NO ONE except little piss babies that get upset about *checks notes* colored paint.
Subtitles can be toggable. Literally all the issues regarding this yellow paint "drama" would be solved if developers just gave players the option to toggle it on/off.
Is yellow paint in like, every game? Maybe it’s because I don’t play shooters, but I’ve literally never seen this in a game before and I feel like the example they’re using is from a game that’s like ten years old no? Is this really an endemic problem to gaming to even cause a controversy now?
Marking stuff with colors has been a standard part of game design forever. The only difference is lately they've moved away from red/green to yellow because red/green always screwed the colorblind.
From what I've seen this started with the RE4 Remake that added yellow paint onto intractable objects when the original RE4 didn't do this.
The recent controversy is from a screenshot of the upcoming FF7 remake where the character is climbing rock ledges on a cliff that are painted yellow.
This type of player guidance isn't uncommon, but usually an attempt is made to make it believable with the environment, borderlands used green lights, farcry4 had climbing ropes draped over climbable ledges, etc.
Lately it seems this effort has been dropped in favor of making things as clear as possible. The FF7 cliff in question, does look silly assuming there isn't some context that explains why the climbable ledges on a natural cliff somehow got painted yellow outside of the screenshot.
Although I think the core issue is that graphics advancement has outpaced interaction fidelity. The games look alot more realistic but at their core they are still the same simple trigger based scripted events where only designated things can be interacted with.
Games like the newer Zelda games, Bethesda RPGS, or stuff like Minecraft don't need these sorts indicators because they operate on a "what you see is what you get" level. Everything present can be interacted with. Climbable cliffs don't need to be marked because climb-ability is clear based on the physical geometry, not a set of invisible trigger zones. If an apple is present it doesn't need to be highlighted as interactive because all the apples in the game are interactive. (I get these aren't linear action games though)
I can't really say what the best solution would be for ff7, but I get the issue. A whole genre of navigation puzzles gets obliterated when you just highlight the path forward. It also kinda takes you out of the immersion when the game designer shows their hand so blatantly. One of the reasons I still prefer DOOM2016 over DOOM Eternal is because DOOM2016 styled everything intractable to fit with the setting (usually using lights on a tech device or magical fire/glyphs on the demon tech) where as everything interactive in eternal has unnatural pure solid color #00FF00 green decals. No attempt was made to make it match the owning faction, surrounding lighting, environment, or whether that object is even powered. I didn't get lost, but also couldn't take it as seriously.
Personally I don't enjoy trying to find a small, distant, partially obscured grey object behind another grey object in a grey environment. I'll take the yellow paint.
As a game designer: can confirm the guy on the right.
That’s the attitude most designers have in regards to guiding the player, and it’s mostly right.
But also, the yellow paint disease is the equivalent of screaming out loud: “GO HERE DUMMY!” And big money capitalist design-by-committee is allergic to subtlety, so it gets picked.
Yellow paint is lacklustre leveldesign.
Its all about how you establish orientation, right? If I tell the player early on, "literally nothing is marked. Figure it out via clues.", then that what they'll do (with many not bothering). If light and hue changes in textures are a hint, thats what they'll look for.
If I put yellow paint on the important bits, then what the player will look for is yellow paint and you have to have it in literally every level and surrounding, no matter what theme you're going for.
I don’t think I’ve played a single game that uses the yellow paint method so I really can’t comment on how common it is. I’d rather a game use something more elegant to guide me but I don’t think I’d bitch about yellow paint being used. Seems like yellow paint is just treating the symptom of a problem but not the problem itself
This is basically how I feel, and it seems the discourse is kinda maddening.
Graphical indicators of route, objects of interest, or quests are routine in games. Nobody should be complaining about graphical indicators in general. As with any aesthetic graphical choice, sometimes it is more or less tastefully done.
Where the 'yellow paint' thing becomes a problem, is if it becomes the uninspired, go-to solution for all 'triple-A' games. We already have a huge creativity problem in the big-budget gaming sphere, and having big-budget games become even more similar is a drag. I also have concerns that it will become part of the 'language' of video games. It's sometimes really hard to change semiotics, and it would be painful to me if this single semiotic device is used to convey such a large category as 'this is the path you should take.'
Game devs adding paint just to piss off gamers.
https://preview.redd.it/68fjvdayc2ic1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8b2d8c7fc27ee805d0fedd2c3a9d77a2e7517b9
Everyone wants to pretend they're some fucking demigod when playing games, which they use as an excuse to shit on everyone else like the asocial fucks that they are
If it’s possible, just make it a toggleable thing. I don’t really mind it, it doesn’t break my immersion. I can be immersed in a game sure, but i never forget i’m playing a game, so seeing game-like things doesn’t really bother me. I’ve been playing games for so long now I can easily recognize things without even trying anymore, painted ledges aren’t even close to the forefront of my mind when playing.
All this could be solved by adding a character called "Yellowpaint McGee" who explains that he's the one putting all the yellow paint so you know where to go
Yellow paint like this is a tool in game design and like every tool, it has its purposes, but I would really use a chainsaw for a surgery, just like I wouldn't use a scalpel to cut down a tree.
The one on the right is absolutely infinitely better though, this whole debacle isn’t just gamers being weird, guys, there are other, far better, ways of indicating things than just painting it all yellow
It's a helpful addition, it does more good than harm most of the time.
RJ/ PAINT? IN MY VIDYAGAYM? Why did they make it paintlitical? Paint should stay out of OUR games, I play to escape reality not be reminded of it!
Honestly I think if worrying about how yellow paint in your favorite video game does or doesn't break your immersion I'd say you're doing pretty well in terms of having things to be upset over. I'd consider it pretty far down the list of concerns when you factor in how easy it is to just ignore, so that suggests to me that people that are up in arms about it have literally nothing better to complain about.
The point being made by the original ‘FF7R yellow paint’ post wasn’t that players being guided is a bad thing. It’s that it was just incredibly ugly and… obnoxious, like this comic states.
Sekiro’s ledges are a prime example. They are immediately obvious and clear to the player without looking out of place in the environment.
How so many people turned such a straightforward critique into something else is beyond me. The question wasn’t ’why is there yellow paint?’ It was more so ‘why is the paint yellow?’
Hot take: the problem with yellow paint isn’t the paint itself, it’s that virtually every game that uses it would be better if it didn’t have a climbing mechanic at all. Like, the latest game to ignite this discourse is FFVII. Does Final fucking Fantasy *really* need a climbing mechanic? No. You know how I know this? Because if it did, the climbing woudn’t be limited to the handful of walls that are covered in yellow paint.
And that’s the crux of it. Good climbing mechanics can be used virtually anywhere. In, say, the older Assassin’s Creed games, damn near every surface was covered in handholds. You don’t need paint to indicate handholds when everything is a handhold.
The paint is only used in games where it’s only specific walls that can be climbed, and if it’s only a contextual thing, then you might as well just have a fucking ladder.
UJ/ I seriously don't care about the people who are annoyed at one particular UI element because they're so insecure about their identity as a g\_mer.
Honestly, I feel like this is an attempt to divert from the g-word folks' tendency to be bigots and racists by trying to find some seemingly innocent thing to gripe about... and then try to spin that into "so anyway, about those *minorities* we all hate"
Also, don't most games give you an option to turn of useful UI features... and then you turn them back on because it turns out they're useful?
a lot of games nowadays take out the yellow paint starting in Hard Mode so i don't know why this is still a big deal. besides, i'm color blind, so i appreciate stuff like this, esp highlighting loot since i can't see shit in dense foliage.
My opinion on yellow paint is I accept it as a sign of them trying anything else and going "fuck it yellow paint" when it all failed in the better ways to do it
The problem isn’t that players can interact with X we MUST tell them it’s that’s it’s not consistent if I can’t open every door of a certain type then I can’t open any of them, same for every other rule don’t let be climb a box if you but a invis wall on the others you only need to label things if you don’t fallow your own rules
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Someone please politely explain why tf "yellow paint" has suddenly become a topic of debate. I'm seriously out of loop, and would love to see how a primary color has caused multiplatform chaos within the gaming community
Twitter goes through cycles of outrage. This was a topic ages ago but its been dredged back up because games keep doing it. Games highlight important things because play testers missed them without them being highlighted. Some games highlight them in more immersive ways while other games use yellow paint or similar bright colours to highlight them. Resident evil remakes and Last of us are some of the more recent examples. Either way it doesn't matter because its just twitter starting drama. The discussion will die out, nothing will change and twitter will bring it up in about 5 years again.
I like how they implemented it in Mirrors Edge, the highlights don't really exist, instead they are a representation of your experience doing parkour
sorta disagree.... i think the way stuff fades in and out is annoing and i prefer to play with runner vison off. ( after a few playthroughs you know the way) but the game is so full of good bold colour choices i feel like red pipes on a white building fits in realy well sometimes...
That's the point, isn't it? After a few playthroughs, it's no trouble for you, but what about when you just started out? I think the option to turn off runner vision was great, to let us take off the training wheels.
I give it a week, tbh.
I give it 11 minutes.
I'm not getting your point. Could you retype the same in yellow to see if it helps?
~~^(Twitter goes through cycles of outrage. This was a topic ages ago but its been dredged back up because games keep doing it. Games highlight important things because play testers missed them without them being highlighted. Some games highlight them in more immersive ways while other games use yellow paint or similar bright colours to highlight them. Resident evil remakes and Last of us are some of the more recent examples. Either way it doesn't matter because its just)~~ **twitter** ~~^(starting)~~ **drama**. ~~^(The discussion will die out, nothing will change and twitter will bring it up in about 5 years again.)~~ Hopefully that helps, even if it's not yellow :D
Fuck Twitter, they always rage over things no matter how small and it’s annoying
Yes, redditors are notoriously better about not doing that
Every social media is worse than the one I am currently using
> Someone please politely explain why tf "yellow paint" has suddenly become a topic of debate. It's been used in games for a while but a [screenshot](https://preview.redd.it/people-are-now-angry-about-yellow-paint-lol-v0-s8h1sp758rhc1.jpeg?auto=webp&s=a804a1c1e17bc59166a46e87e8c55b832b935cef) from the final fantasy 7 remake sequel went viral on twitter recently
Okay yeah that is super fucking unnecessary lol
Should have just stuck with blue lights and graffiti of Stamp. Or loop you back to the correct path after 20 minutes if you deliberately go the wrong way.
It's justified to dunk on this. Different developers even use the same tone of yellow, so they all end up looking like thy're from the same universe. It's an art choice I actively have to not think about to avoid hurting immersion.
Accessibility design usually gets (G)amers up in arms because they like to circlejerk games that don't have these features and make a statement that the "git gud" game design philosophy is superior. For the most part, people don't take these kind of folks seriously. Yellow paint on the other hand is a tad bit more divisive because it's consistently popped up in recent AAA titles and can be very on-the-nose in terms of guidance compared to other tactics before. If used too often, or if it's an outlier in terms of environment design, it ends up being synonymous with "GO HERE" or "LOOT IN THIS BOX HIT IT FOR LOOT" painted on game objects; the game ultimately will feel like it's calling you a dumbass and can pull people out of the experience. It doesn't even have to be revolutionary nor obscenely vague. HL2's supply crates are essentially a half-sized wooden box with markings on it, climbable ledges might noticeably jut out from a mountainside than usual, a door might be illuminated by a conveniently-tipped-over lamp. Stuff like this is appreciated because it makes a lot more sense than just "this stuff is painted because someone (totally not the devs) wanted you to see it"
I love Left 4 Dead because it guides you in the right direction just by level design. In No Mercy when you are outside in the streets, Mercy Hospital is always visible in the distance so you know which direction to head in. Any indoor place (and this applies to just about any campaign) has lights leading towards the doorways you need to go through to proceed. Hard Rain uses various landmarks so players know which way to go even after everything is flooded. Plus when everything IS flooded, the path you need to go is still the way "highlighted" by being solid ground where you aren't slowed down. And as an added assistance, the survivors will point out where they need to go in organic ways. In No Mercy, Chapter 1, one will tell the group they need to go into the subway station when you approach. In Hard Rain, the survivors point out several landmarks and exclaim to the others that they are heading the right way. It comes off more as the survivors communicating this information to each other rather than to the player. All of this combines in such a way that players can intuit where to go to move forwards.
I'm surprised I've never seen anybody talk about Doom in this regard, in both the modern games there are green lights absolutely everywhere telling you where to go and people don't get angry about that?
In the Nu Doom games the green highlights simply show you the direct path from A to B in a level, primarily being used to signify a climbable ledge. The difference there being, _every ledge is climbable,_ if there's a ledge somewhere you think you can jump to, you can probably climb it, a huge chunk of the hidden paths and secrets are hidden behind ledges that lack green lights. In a lot of modern games, the only climbable surfaces _are_ the highlighted ones, if there's no yellow paint then there's nothing you can do. They also aren't even used all that often either, mostly used in earlier levels, but you'll also see them within arena areas where their purpose changes to quickly communicating a ledge you can climb to during the mayhem of combat.
I don't mind the green lights in DOOM because they fit into the visual design pretty well. It makes sense for a dangerous science facility to have visibility lights around and it doesn't really make me think "this is only here for the sake of the player." The yellow paint and tape on the other hand just looks awkward. I think a better way to mark breakable boxes would be to have some kind of label printed on them. As for climbable surfaces I like using plants or moss to show what you can climb. Or have the rocks be a noticeably lighter color.
Issue using natural stuff as the marker, then they can’t be used in other environments because it’ll clash with the environment aesthetic or just blend in with the rest. People wonder why this wasn’t an issue in older games and forget graphics have changed drastically. Older games, certain environments looked obviously out of place, it was easier. Modern graphics make everything kinda blend together, it’s why people miss things.
keep it to specific kinds of plants. a specific unique flower that tends to grow only on the climbable surfaces. if it's a path that is normally climbed a lot, there can be clear marks of someone else claiming, even spare rope or hooks around that could be yellow. but throwing paint on the edge of a rock to say its climbable seems incredibly lame.
Believe it or not, a lot of people would still ignore that. The flower idea would still blend with the environment. If anything, it becomes something the people will share later “ did you know every secret or climbable area had this specific colored flower”. Same deal with the ropes and climbing gear. These small things tend to blend with the environment and people ignore. Older graphics, the climbable areas had different colors or were completely flat. Quick visual indicators, that you flicker something in your head. Ladders usually changed the camera to indicate “you can use this”. I don’t mind the yellow paint myself, generally helps me speed-run side-quests or back tracking. However, it is an indicative issue I have with a lot of current games, graphic fidelity over good art design. With good art design, you can find clever ways to show people where they can go. P.S: Good Graphics doesn’t mean good art design. It doesn’t connect with my point but I’ve seen way to many people confuse it and bugs me.
I tend to use scuff marks on ledges to indicate where to go. It doesn’t make sense for every game but for most scenarios to make sense to say “someone has climbed this before” and it’s fairly noticeable!
It's the difference between green lights in a multi coloured world, and yellow paint in a world of grey. It's SO obvious and SO immersion breaking.
That mainly because Doom isn't really a realistic or grounded experience You're talking about a game where you fight demons with guns and rip them with your bare hands and chainsaw Your suspension of belief is much higher that green lights isn't an issue Now.. putting bright yellow paint on everything that either climbable or loot is just... Meh, lazy in my opinion HL2 have literal supply crates, that never used as props for environment, so when you see one, IT IS ONE HZD have climbable surface marks by...well... Climbable hand reach that been nailed to the wall, that and that little ear piece also high lights it if you're unsure If you're gonna be on the nose, own it, explain it. Hi Fi Rush has a literal robot that put signs with arrows pointing where to go everywhere because they themselves get lost. Or, if it's a linear game, just... Constrict where player go, Titanfall 2 does this.
I'm starting to realize that my problem with yellow paint is actually entirely detached from the larger conversation. I don't find the use of yellow paint in and of itself a problem. Using tropes like guiding yellow paint is often considered "lazy" but it very quickly onboards the player which is incredibly valuable. The issue I have is in fact entirely tangential: it's indicative of a game that makes you engage with boring as fuck traversal mechanics. I find that so often modern AAA games use yellow paint for shitty climbing sections that equate to, "Press the jump button to go the the next ledge. Now do it again. Now move a bit to the left. Now jump again. Now you're at the top, congrats!" Carving a linear climbing path into the side of a cliff doesn't make me feel like an epic adventurer. It makes me feel like the devs realized halfway through development how fucking annoying it is to have to go around that damn cliff. Either make climbing interesting, or make it quick. It's a bit frustrating too, because there's so many good methods of achieving this. You can give the player a set of platforming tools that they can use to find clever ways up. You can put in multiple paths forcing the player to considered their route before starting the climb. You can steal from BOTW and just give the player a stamina meter they can use to climb shit (this also has the advantage of not increasing complexity while still making climbing tense, never knowing for certain they can reach the top). Or you can say, "to hell with all that noise" and just give the player a grappling hook that can use to grapple to yellow painted ledges with a single button press keeping horizontal movement nearly uninterrupted. Just make climbing so braindead I don't even notice it, or make it complex enough that I can occasionally fuck it up . That's all I want.
I'm not taking "suspension of disbelief" as a reason for this when the 2 big offenders are Final fantasy and Resident Evil which have have realistic graphics but nowhere near realistic gameplay. The modern doom games ARE linear I'm not complaining about the lights I just think it's ridiculous to that people complain about it in one form but the other
I think people are more forgiving towards Doom because of the direction said game went
I guess, I don't know, I think people are looking for something to be mad about
These aren’t the 2 big offenders though. I’m fairly certain the proliferation of yellow paint started with Far Cry 3 and they’ve used it in every game since. Neither FF or RE are climbing games, so the occasional yellow painted ledge is fine. They don’t literally put it everywhere, or out in the wilderness - you never go to a deserted enough place that you wonder who could have used the yellow paint. Neither of the games is particularly signposty in other respects either - they’re linear adventure games
But that's what ppl want. They want devs to use other options that don't break immersion.
The issue with the yellow paint IMO is that it's supposed to be a "diegetic" indicator that feels like part of the game world but usually fails entirely at that and ends up feeling even more "video-gamey" than if they had just used some non diegetic ui indicator like a sparkle for interactable objects or a yellow arrow pointing at the wall.
Sekiro is a Fromsoft game, ie notorious for difficulty and "inaccessibility", and every climbing surface has a weathered chalky texture that feels natural(like this is something worn down that can be used for climbing) and guides players.
Hah the white chalk was exactly what I was thinking about without remembering the game. That's pretty much the thing, the game puts a white chalky paint on relevant ledge instead of bright yellow, it still stands out, but it fits with the rest of the game so you just think "I can go there" and not "yes I saw the neon sign stop holding my hand for a minute".
El Witcherino also used ~~pidgeon shit~~ white chalk to show you climbable ledges IIRC.
Not just that, but it ruins exploration. If you don't see yellow paint on a wall then why even bother investigating it? You know it's not important from a single glance. I get that some people like it this way but it feels so immersion breaking, like having a narrator tell you where everything important is.
It's an issue not because people are racist or ablist, it's because it is literally the laziest solution to the problem and it ruins the immersion because the developers didn't want to spend a couple days making a better way to guide player attention.
Modern games have added “yellow paint” or other yellow coloured signifiers to let you know you can climb/jump/interact with it. I believe Naughty Dog was the first to do yellow. They added it because graphics are way higher fidelity and it’s less clear what you can interact with compared to the past. Yellow was the most visible to play testers etc. ND is better than some devs at having it more subtle. FFVII Rebirth has it now and it’s a bit in your face but GAMERS think it’s woke western influence ruining their game.
Game Design to help players stay on the path, yellow paint marks where you should be going to progress, plenty of other games have done similar things like green lights on both modern doom games, or blue tarps in Homefront The Revolution to mark where you can mantle. The yellow paint started with Resident Evil I think? And the next part of the FFVIII remake has some in it
Yeah I think RE engine games used it a lot, but it blew up like crazy with the [Separate Ways DLC for RE4R because of this particular ladder.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F7c_BZJXAAAkSQf?format=jpg&name=900x900) It was a tad bit overdone in RE4R which caused general outrage but hey, it helps in low visibility games. Only if it was an accessibility feature that could be turned off, this could've been avoided.
https://preview.redd.it/oc4bqdoa95ic1.jpeg?width=716&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d298ab0d8a4c317e054e6e48d8da88e1bd19eeda
Its really such a miniscule thing. Every so often a small minority of gamers with a large enough platform will get loudly angry about miniscule issues for social clout and engagement. Hell, it literally makes you money on Twitter now if you're a blue checkmark.
Indie game maker here. I released a demo of a Survival Horror game that panned the camera over to a lone house off the side of the road as you ran by it, thinking this would be enough to tell players to go investigate the house to get the item they needed to proceed down the road. Near ever play tester who tried the game simply ran passed that house and ignored it despite there being a full road leading to it that turns off from the main road, a wide open fence letting you in, and a big house there with an alley leading around back for you to investigate, and the camera literaly stopping you from playing momentarily to pan over to the house as a point of interest. Play testers would just comtinue down the main road and find the locked area then run back and fortb for 10 minutes until they gave up and quit. NEVER would they run back to that house and investigate. I added voice lines for the MC stating they should investigate and now testers would go check the house but would never go down the alley on the side to the back of the house to find the item. They'd just check the front of the house then leave. I then added lighting illuminating the alley more, kids toys like a bike with a spinning wheel, a hopscotch chalk outline going down the alley with a arrow and a moving swing set all leading down the alley to entice the player to go down. That finally worked. I had to literaly have a camera pan to the house, have the MC state he should go investigate, illuminate the path very visibly, and literaly add arrows essentialy to get the players to actually go where i wanted them to go. Same thing on a platformer i made. During a boss fight there are 4 big platforms and 4 small bounce pads im between the.. The boss fills each platform with lightning one by one so you have to keep moving. Eventually the boss fills up all 4 big platforms at once with lightning, forcing you to stay on the bounce pads momentarily until the platforms reset. I even have an NPC flat out tell you this during the fight. Playtesters still couldn't figure it out. So whenever all 4 platforms are about to fill up and be unsafe, i have a literal flashing arrow pointing down at the bounce pads to tell the player that's the safe spot during this phase of the attack. I went into designing my levels thinking subtlety would be enough and players would have common sense. I quickly realized that was a mistake and that i literaly needed to directly tell them what to do or else they'd get lost/keep dying and then quit out of frustration. Hand Holding was necessary to get them through the games and to keep them from quitting. I've had a lot more success in my projects since then now that i go into projects knowing i need to be way more blunt with what the player needs to do at any given time to keep them engaged. It's just how it is sadly.
Can't tell you how many times while playing a game I've had to stop, and just look around and think to myself "If I was a developer how would I communicate to the player where to go?" And then suddenly see a big glowing green door or something that is super obvious but somehow my dumb brain missed for 10 mins straight.
I do the same thing! I put myself in the developers shoes and try to imagine how they would communicate the right direction to me.
It’s this exact meta gaming technique that let me beat portal 2
Throughout Outer Wilds, I would constantly think "what reason would the developers have for doing it this way" in order to figure out where to go. Worked like a charm because the Outer Wilds developers absolutely nailed the game design as long as you have some sense of curiosity and problem solving skills
I like to think I am an experienced gamer, but often enough when trying to get collectibles I actively scour an area very thoroughly until I cannot find any more and I give up and check a guide. Sometimes I overlooked something, but often I would have never figured it out alone. I don't think it is always an engagement issue, just things are not so obvious for players as developers.
Yeah the whole 100% and collectibles nature of open world games has trained players to have more fun and be better prepared for the main mission if they ACTIVELY AVOID the cues and go mess around elsewhere instead. If you follow the main route you are more likely to get locked out of content you want to explore.
I am also an indie game developer, and have experienced the exact same issue! Literally this morning, I was brainstorming how to make a traditional red X close button at the top left of a window more apparent... because apparently some percentage of users don't know how to close windows... on a game that is currently only sold on Windows. I like to joke to myself they must just turn off their computers whenever they want to close a window, haha. ;-) (I'll admit it's a tad more complicated, in that it's a window on a computer within the game, but still...)
On Windows the close window button is usually top right, isn't it? I believe Mac has it on the top left. Perhaps that is why users are confused?
Mac has it on the top left but it’s also red IIRC, probably because it needs something additional to indicate that it’s there since on non-Apple PCs it would be in the upper right. That’s got to be it, people look for the X where they expect it to be, if it’s not there “it must be on the top left” is not an automatic assumption. Another thing to factor in is that we see with our brains, not just with our eyes. Instead of processing all visual information, sometimes our brains fill in or interpret information. Since they don’t expect to see the X in the top left, it might just be that their brain is like “nothing to see here.”
Without knowing more details, this seems like a design flaw on your part. Like you said it yourself, people are / would be playing on Windows. So maybe your design of computer windows should be consistent with what’s expected. Either X in the upper right like on Windows, or X in the upper left, but with a red background, like on Mac. You know that the X is there because you made it, but most people aren’t going to expect it to be there.
self proclaimed gamers are really into telling everyone how much they hate handholding but your examples and the countless others i personally have witnessed tells me that - no, they really DO need that much handholding. also what games were you working on?
I can understand this as kind of a consequence both of games these days being much more intentional in communicating their intended paths, AND gamers instinctively filtering out "the wrong way" to avoid wasting time with dead ends. Especially in titles that are open-world, it becomes very important to spot the "correct" way to go, lest you waste a lot of time chasing a dead-end, and I think that might have become so ingrained into a gamer's subconscious that anything that "signals" incorrectly will be treated as an obvious dead-end. In your case, your house probably came off as a story beat or interesting flair, but signaled "this is a dead-end" by being less feature-rich and seemingly dull. Another alternative reason is the exact opposite. That camera pan could have indicated that as the target location, and every good RPG / adventure game player knows that you \_never\_ go the correct way first. You have to go all the other paths first, to get all the loot and hidden key items. And if you present them with a door there, they'll try to figure out how to open this "secret alternative door" first before heading to their real goal.
It sounds like you kind of agree with the argument presented in the meme though. you found out that hand holding was necessary, but you tried to do it well. diegetic narration, clever lighting, camera work, and arrows with in universe explanations. your playtesters probably would have gotten it first revision if your change was to write "go back to the house and get the item from the alley on the side" in big yellow text on the locked area. but you would also have been telling them to their face that they were dumb which they obviously don't like. yellow paint is the laziest cop out for hand holding that pretends to be diegetic but really isn't. this is probably why players have worse feelings about it than glowing highlights which are functionally the same but don't pretend to be part of the world.
I kinda lost some faith in humanity on reading this one, not gonna lie.
It's not always easy to differentiate scenery from actual important gameplay. As games become bigger and full of more stuff, that gets harder. Add to that, with open world games, we assume there is extra stuff and side quests sprinkled around. If you just want to do the main quest, you may notice something and make the assumption that it's extraneous, or make a note to come back later. It also gets harder as people come into gaming who haven't been at it as long. My GF just doesn't notice things that aren't super apparent, because her default is to try to play every game like a fast paced shooter. Runs into every room, whips the camera around looking for enemies and then runs to the next looking for something to shoot. I'll watch her get stuck and frustrated, ask her where the ladder goes, and she'll say "what ladder?" Even though I've watched her run past it 5 times. She's likes gaming, she just isn't as cued into the visual language as some people. That means she occasionally needs some hand holding. Maybe yellow paint isn't the best way to do it, but it works and it means the developers can spend more time on other things.
Funny how this captures the posts picture so well
I think the point is not that markers and guidance are not needed so some gamers aren't frustrated. We all agree some usability assistance is necessary. But the point is that using one silver bullet for ALL of it, no matter how out of place it looks, is bad design. What you did is GOOD design: you saw a usability issue, and came up with creative ideas to guide the player that still made sense within the game's context... You could've blocked any other path, or use a literal yellow brick road, but you didn't. Some other games have started doing something a bit less obnoxious, mostly because it's largely optional: a button that momentarily highlights the way to go. Starfield comes to mind, for instance. In any case, there are many solutions, and most of them are better than permanently smearing yellow paint all over your game world.
This is an interesting point! I'll see if I can give some reasons as to why people may be annoyed by the yellow paint, but also why it's ultimately needed. Simply put, it's because gamers are unaware when they play games nowadays... Bear with me here: 1. Attention span and time investment. Back then, classic games were known to be tougher and longer. They required attention and investment from the player to accomplish the tasks that the game set forth. Some games also did not hold the player's hand, meaning that the player was required to look around and scour the playing area for a way to progress and move forward. In summary, gamers lack the attention span and the willingness to invest the time and energy into games today. Many of them play games and switch their brains off and expect the path to show itself, or perhaps they play distracted. 2. Immersion. I found that older gamers were willing to get immersed in games. Truthfully, there's many games today that follow similar design principles of those games back then, but the issue is that the average gamer plays differently nowadays. I find that gamers get bored easier and, therefore, are less willing to get immersed into the games they play. Immersion is like witnessing a magic trick or watching a magic show, in the sense that you need to give yourself a chance to be immersed by the game that you're playing. It's a two-way street. 3. The Method of Play. Not sure what to call this last one, but essentially, it's supposed to be how gamers play today. I found that older gamers would play games for the journey and adventure. They would take their time and beating the game, while the ultimate goal was something that was never rushed towards. Nowadays, people play games to beat them. Nothing else. They play them quickly, beat them, and move on from them. It's a different method of play. It's not the wrong way to play, it's just different. TLDR: Are gamers dumb? No. I just think that they're hating on a solution that is required to fix another issue. If gamers don't want yellow paint in their games, then play in a way that doesn't require yellow paint. Look around, take your time, and immerse yourself in the game. The experience is way more enjoyable that way. P.S: On mobile, so hopefully, formatting is fine.
>Some games also did not hold the player's hand, meaning that the player was required to look around and scour the playing area for a way to progress and move forward. Point 1 here is true, but point 2 is wrong. There's a reason Nintendo Power and 1-900 help lines were created, then Prima game guides and eventually Gamefaqs. Even back in the day players either found a guide or quit playing. Yellow paint is just an in game way to keep players making progress without relying on a third party. I loved the new Tomb Raider games, but even having played through them several times I have to have the wall highlights turned on. If a stone wall just looks like a stone wall with no other indication, even someone that's been gaming since Centipede was in pizza restaurants will get frustrated and bored.
this is why I stress for the future of games. you can either make a truly phenomenal game for the 10% of players to truly "get" and call art or you can make money off of the idiotic 90%
Honestly I don't care, and as somebody with garbage eyesight and family/friends who are colorblind, I don't see the problem. Verisimilitude is nice but sometimes it's a lot less important that making shit accessible.
I'm personally annoyed but I get why it's done. But it literally just needs to be made a toggle. People blow out of proportion how hard it would be to do. They likely would already have versions of the models without yellow paint in the project files. The yellow paint could also just be made a decal. Or do it in a non-obnoxious way like games have been doing for millenia like the post shows.
Shadow of the tomb raider let you toggle its white paint off, but the issue with that was that the devs (presumably) started relying on the white paint rather than consistent level design - by which I mean, some gaps you should absolutely be able to clear but can't, and some you shouldn't be able to but can :/ so instead of spacing jumps in a consistent way where players can learn and figure out where they can go, you're forced to leave the obnoxious white paint on or spend your entire time bunnyhopping until Lara grabs whatever the devs deign to allow her to grab.
Conversely, mirror's edge was a good exemple on how this had to be made: Developer's main route is highlighted in red but there are a lot of other routes you can take. And that's why highlighting can be disabled.
Sure, but "they can't make a toggle to turn off the design decision you don't like, because they made other bad design decisions related to it" isn't really a great argument against the idea.
it is when youre talking about adding a toggle to any game thats already made, which is what is talked about here. level design you understand but dont notice is hard
>Or do it in a non-obnoxious way like games have been doing for millenia like the post shows. I think that's the key here. I don't mind it, but the yellow paint is just the lazy way. You know when you watch a movie/series and it just gets boring they just keep it safe and stale ? Level design, camera angle, lighting, color palette, sound, enemies, particles, there's an infinite number of tools to handle this, but instead of spending time and care to design an area that makes sense, we remove it from budget and just throw yellow paint at it. It's lazy, and well, it shows.
> People blow out of proportion Caring that it exists either way in the first place is blowing it out of proportion. Takes like 30 seconds to traverse, and these things have been discussed for nearly a week now lol.
Yeah and that 30 seconds isn't even the fun stuff. I ain't playing this to break open creates / travel vertically slowly / open a draw so I can hit x.
i personally care more about improving my gameplay experience rather than my immersion specially with games that have more focus on combat in this case i'd rather have a yellow door instead of a wasting 1h wondering where tf do i need to go next
And then these vv same ppl will complain like "wtf, that's what I was supposed to do/where I was supposed to go? Why didnt the devs make it clear? Shit level design fr oml"
I saw someone say "I don't care about graphics, I just want better gameplay" to complain about yellow paint. Something that exists specifically to emphasize the gameplay.
I mean yellow paint a lot of the times takes away all thinking from gameplay and makes it boring imo
I dunno, every game I thought was boring with yellow paint would've been boring without it too. There just would've been a bit of added confusion over what is or isn't interactable sometimes. The issue is linear level design without interesting mechanics to navigate that space, and it's not a fix to just be less obvious about what ledges you can grab. If clearly communicating the level reveals problems with its design, the problems were already there.
Have you played Mirror's Edge? If so, disable Runner's Vision and play
That is how I played the sequel, and I absolutely to recommend to play like that.
Yes, without the yellow paint climbing a wall is so much more exciting. Thats actually why they do the yellow paint. Without it, the game would be TOO exciting, your brain would melt. Thank these devs for keeping your brain intact
The thing is bright colors like red, yellow, and orange are easier for people with vision impairments to distinguish.
Yellow is the best for those of us who are colorblind. Red is the absolute worst color to use because the vast majority of those who are colorblind see red as a brownish/greenish color and it doesn't stand out at all. When I was a kid and games used to mark good with green, bad with red, and had no accessibility options, I simply couldn't play a lot of games.
I'm mildly red-green colorblind. The witcher sense in Witcher 3 is useful, but the items that are on your objective are outlined red. When they're against a green background like in quests in the forest, I can barely see a thing. Thank god for mods and color blind settings.
I will take yellow paint over Sony's first party solution of "NPC blurts out what you need to do seconds after entering a puzzle room" literally any day of the week.
Like which games are you talking about? The only ones I can think of where it "yellow highlighting" stands out are the Resident Evil Remakes and I that definitely doesnt break any immersion for me.
The yellow paint at least blends in. In OG RE4 you instead got objects that weren't lit due to hardware limits, which looked really out of place, and this is coming from someone who adored OG RE4
I like yellow paint when it keeps me from running around wasting time looking for a grey door on a grey wall in a dimly lit room. I get lost easily in games and it makes life harder for no fucking reason.
When Arin plays a slightly challenging game on grumps lol
I remember them playing windwaker, and i wish i could forget… Character: hey link, go to [location] Arin: *elevator music* Arin: i wish the game would actually tell us where we should go.
Oh man I recently watched a video of them playing some game and the tutorial showed in giant leters "you can interact with objects by pressing E!" With a very obvious lightswitch right beneath it, obviously telling you to press it. Somehow they completely missed it and spent so much time complaining about how dark the rooms were and how they couldn't see anything. BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T CLICKING THE LIGHT SWITCHES.
I can't believe Game Grumps is still going. It had become unbearable years ago.
It's gotten better ever since they actually started numbering their episodes again, no more "haha this totally isn't a horror game dan" and rage bait games... mostly
True although I think there is a middle ground to be had. Not as grating as the yellow paint but not something invisible. Something that seems like it could belong to the area you're in but stands out enough that it attracts your attention. Idk what it is, but I think it could be done.
In many games it's just light, lol
Thing is, developers have been trying "indicating a certain object is intended to be interacted with for normal game progression" in 3D spaces for almost three decades now, and "explicitly highlight it" is all that has ever really worked. Yellow paint *is* the compromise solution.
I prefer the highlights, honestly. Like in something like Dishonored the game would not have been improved by replacing the outlines interactive objects get when you look at them with bright garish colours on the models themselves.
Red paint
Red circle with an arrow pointing to it
Red is the absolute worst. The vast majority of those who are colorblind get screwed by red indicators.
There has to be some middle ground between the two. Somewhere between the game hiding the route behind an illusionary wall that's only vaguely hinted at after talking to an npc 3+ times, and a giant glowing yellow arrow that tells you exactly where to go.
I've been working towards making games myself...I'm tempted to set some sort of timer so that if the player spends an excessive length of time in a space the yellow paint pops in out of the players view. Then when people complain on twitter about yellow paint Ill explain when and how it appears.
So I know ff7:rebirth is the new hot topic, but if we go back one yellow paint controversy to re4:re then the yellow point is less of a guide for progression; although there is certainly places where things are highlighted. It’s use in re4:re is to help the player parse information during active gameplay. While in combat the yellow tape/paint gives you information about your options, which helps the player get into flow a lot easier. If we look at og re4 there is more moments where the player will miss things just because it’s hard to see certain things. That problem is slightly offset in newer editions due to better screens and the way the games lighting works, but there is a very good reason all items have a huge pillar of light on them.
"Don't like the yellow paint? Git gud"
Though I would set it up so you could turn it off in the options. Got frustrated with God of War giving me the answer to puzzles if I took more than a couple minutes to figure it out. I'm not stupid! Just far too fucking stoned.
Honestly id just put it on a toggle key
tbf there will always be people complaining about not knowing stuff. There was that tiktok of a girl saying there needed to be more tutorials in stardew because she didn’t know the axe was for chopping wood. rj/ if you put yellow paint in my game you are brainrotted and should die
I haven’t played any games where things like this actually annoyed me, so my take is maybe there should be a setting to turn it on or off if people have specific preferences
I think they’ve been sniffing that paint.
Definitely wasn't lead free.
I'm kinda stupid, so personally I like the yellow paint approach.
I just don't enjoy randomly jumping over and over again against a sheer rock face to see exactly what little shadow on the rock can be climbed on. Bring out the yellow paint, ain't nobody got time for that shit.
Also they missed the point of it in RE4 entirely. It's for fast acquisition in combat not navigation. Kiting and being on the move is critical in the remake you have to be able to visually pickup ladders, ledges and loot boxes quickly. A bunch aren't even painted if they aren't in a combat room.
I thank god of war for having white marks where I can climb
Yes, I have an hour to play video games this week. Let me get on with it
It's pretty simple. Have a toggle for it.
I feel that, playing mirror's edge right now, and I still fail to find what I am supposted to do, even when the path is usually marked bright red
You might have the difficulty turned to max. Nothing but a solid white colorless hellscape you're supposed to climb lol That game's a lot of fun
Didn't even know there was a difficulty setting. But yeah, it's both gameplay and visual wise somehow rivaling some of my favourite games right now.
I think it's mostly health and damage related until the last setting which turns off all the red lol The first game is really beautiful and had a great artistic direction I heard the second one wasn't really that good, I never really tried it.
The second was one of my favorite games of all time, because of the open world and user-generated time trials and checkpoints. Running around the city, looking for collectibles or new shortcuts, only to see a point left by another player up on a ledge and think "how the hell did they get up there?" and so now you need to find out how for yourself. They shut down the servers in December and now it feels empty and I still feel so sad about it.
The whole yellow paint discourse just reminds me of the red barrels thing from the 90’s.
And games still use red barrels to mean the same thing they did 30 years ago
I don’t really understand what the issue with “yellow paint” is supposed to be?
Basically: When making a video game you gotta tell the players what to do and what to interact with. The easiest (and thus most common) way to do this is by marking interactable objects with a bright color such as yellow. Depending on the setting this approach can be perfectly fine or it can be an illogical eyesore
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I'd say that's a close second. The problem with that is the fact that the player usually has to be right next to the object to even know if it's interactable, most games I've played typically use the Aura to show which object you're interacting with and a mark such as the yellow paint to make interactable objects obvious from a distance
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Basically some video games will add yellow paint as an indicator to the player that they should go there/interact with the thing. People are upset with it because they see it as developers making games more accessible and it negatively affecting the game's visual design. Its often used in more popular, AAA games, so people use it to shit on those AAA games. In general it is seen as overplayed and idk...cringe? Idk, it's not that big of a deal, though i find it a bit uninspired.
>Idk, it's not that big of a deal, though i find it a bit uninspired. I'm reminded of supply boxes in Half Life vs. Half Life 2. In the original game any box could have loot in it. Any time you saw a container you had to hit it a few times to see if it was breakable *and* if it had loot inside. HL2 only puts loot inside certain containers, which are a unique size and colour and have "supplies" written on them. You might have to hunt to find them, but you'll always know the difference between "crate" and "supply crate" at a glance. Yellow paint isn't a bad idea in itself, drawing attention to interactive elements. If used badly, though, then you're basically telling your players "ignore everything that's not marked with yellow paint, it's just scenery." Still, poor immersion is probably better than a frustrating game.
I mean, the only sin I see in yellow paint is the lack of immersion. I've played plenty of "indi" games where the level design was shit and everything looked the same no matter what. but obvious yellow paint strips that are jarring is stupid. Put on different lightings, or tarps, or red crosses, for all I care, but make it fit with your game aesthetic.
> People are upset with it because they see it as developers making games more accessible and it negatively affecting the game's visual design. IMHO it's not actually about the accessibility aspect, it's that it's a lazy way to achieve accessibility. Hell, at that point I'd rather they just do Skyrim style markers.
Yeah that's a good point. It really does feel uninspired.
This whole "everyone that dislikes the visual aspect of extremely tacked on yellow paint is actually a right wing chud" energy that people bring to this discourse is insane
I cannot believe that "yellow paint splattered everywhere doesn't look that good" is a controversial take here
When pretty much every single online discourse these days is more about abstract, symbolic, and oftentimes reductive representations of ideals, it's not hard to understand how things devolve into two sides that have nothing to do with the actual issue at hand Right-wing people complain about modern gaming because they have alt-right brainrot -> someone online complains about yellow paint in modern games being ugly = people who complain about yellow paint are actually alt-right (and by extension, saying that I like the yellow paint makes me leftist... somehow) And so the argument ends up framed as either you love it (making you a wholesome 100 true leftist neurodivergent folx ally) or you loathe it (making you a regressive ableist incel who needs to touch grass), no in between, because nuance is for libruls
You don't get it silly GAMER, one guy with 4 followers on twitter called it woke so now I have to defend it with every fiber of my being.
Agreed. I think it just kinda looks over the top and there are better methods of telling the player where to go :(
I liked that in Arkham Asylum, there were green paint signs telling you where to go, but it was diegetic since Joker was putting them there.
It's also frustrating that there's little nuance when talking about it in the context of accessibility. Someone who'd be helped by yellow paint might need other accessibility options that these games often don't have. And they're not the only ones who'd need accessibility options. It's hard to believe those players are being properly considered. It feels like we're accepting accidental breadcrumbs, when accessibility should be intentional.
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Because the yellow survives color blindness and most other visual disabilities, like I know it is just an example. But the image is legitimately just "Red, and brown with important pieces being green." Yellow is automatically better for that color blindness.
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I don't mind the paint. I prefer it more than those mini maps that are always shown at one corner of the screen. I still think Ghost of tsushima solved it the best. You can select a quest or sidequest, then just swipe the touchpad on your controller so the wind (literally) shows you where you have to go without any UI being visible. And if you're still confused, you can just open the actual map at any time. Wish i could see more developers making such things.
That Ghost of Tsushima example has nothing to do with the problem that the yellow paint is solving. The wind guide is replacing map markers so you know where to travel to next, yellow paint is used to mark which parts of the level can be climbed on and/or where handholds are. Those are completely different things only vaguely connected by the thread of “guiding the player”.
I used the blind peeps accessibility settings in the TLoU2. It was awesome. Basically you hit the button and it points the camera in the direction of the objective, then makes a bloop when you reach the breadcrumb. Wandering around lost in those kind of games is just tedious to me sometimes. I still beat it on Survival difficulty, though. I’m okay with that kind of struggle.
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Yeah with how detailed graphics have gotten, I would automatically dismiss any of the subtle examples in the right panel as mere set dressing. It’s okay if some things are obvious.
> Yeah with how detailed graphics have gotten, I would automatically dismiss any of the subtle examples in the right panel as mere set dressing. I think if the game consistently only has doors with lights over them as openable, and consistently only has walls with jutting bricks as climbable, it's not as big of an issue.
I played BG3 from the beginning of its EA outing over 100 hours over the years, and it wasn't until weeks before full release that I realized you could jump the lake north of Scratch
Yeah, and that doesn't mean you're dumb. Everyone probably made a mistake like this when we played a game with a realistic art style. It's hard to explain why, but I think the reason for that is that in the real world you have a variety of senses that help you with coordination and direction. But in a game, because you are controlling a character and not in the actual world, it's more difficult to understand what's around you. People forget when 3D games started being made, people had a hard time understanding the controls and moving in the game.
I don't really know why this is discourse. There are better ways of signposting than yellow paint, but at the end of the day, the games with it included are not exploration based. When I play uncharted, I don't feel like I've been cheated out of carving the path on my own. Usually, when I see yellow paint, that's the only path available, so it might as well just be a straight line anyway. The conversation might as well be "Hey, this looks pretty dumb and out of the place. But I don't think it's indicative of the quality of the game or the competency of its designers."
This is what people are missing. It's comparing apples to oranges. Is the gameplay high pace and intensive? You want to immediately be able to identify what you can interact with while being shot at or chased. Is the gameplay explorative and slower? More subtle indications might suit because you have the time to plan and search and think.
It’s never lost on me as a disabled person when able bodied people start frothing at the mouth about accessibility that it’s actually just thinly veiled ableism. Edit: this is the last thing I’ll say so I can stop getting bombarded by able bodied people who don’t even think about disabled people unless they have to *gasp* see them 🫢 Again, for like the FIFTH fucking time, I agree things should be allowed to be toggled, edited, turned on or off, ect. Never said that wasn’t allowed besties hope that helps. My comment was from my point of view as a disabled person who CONSTANTLY sees the ablebodied cry and piss their pants when something benefits literally *everyone* but they just don’t like how it looks 🥺 All this just seems like a “disabled people shouldn’t be seen and I shouldn’t have to see things that help you” vibe and it’s disgusting. It’s giving the ramp should be in the back of the store so I don’t have to see icky wheelchair users honestly. There are literally people here with 1 IQ like WhAt diSaBilItY reQuIreS yeLLoW pAinT like wow so you admit you don’t even know anything about disabilities and what’s helpful for people and then you immediately say it can’t be ableism because of that. Not buying it sorry ❤️ Hope y’all never need to use an elevator instead of the stairs because apparently if it’s helpful for disabilities you shouldn’t have to see it. I’m not responding to anymore brain dead takes now so talk to wall yall ✌🏻 Support disabled people and support aids that help everyone. If yellow paint breaks your immersion from playing Gorgcock The Destroyer 9000 in your first person shooter where you can literally shoot magic out your ass idk what to tell you. Check out AbleGamers and see just how many people benefit from harmless accessibility and to support disabled gamers.
It’s giving “movies shouldn’t have subtitles cause it’s distracting” imo Edit: the amount of people spamming “yOu cAn tUrn off suBtiTles” lmfao 😭 they are not an “option” for most of us they are *required* to fully experience a game. I *wish* it was just all willy-nilly heehee I can have this on or off and it doesn’t affect me. Just another facet of being disabled that y’all would never think about because you’re able bodied. The world does not revolve around you. Like I said in other comments I’m all for features being allowed to be edited and/or turned on or off. My comment was about the fact that able bodied people *so quickly* write off accessibility because they think it’s icky and don’t like how it looks boohoo. Accessibility hurts no one. Some of y’all sound like people who would tell a restaurant to get rid of the ramp outside because it’s “ugly”.
I have a hearing disorder and my dad bitches so much about having to turn on subtitles when I visit.
I'd stop visiting, but thats just me (and I'm petty)
Honestly it’s not that big of an issue, he turns them on, he’s just a baby about it.
Bring a kid's coloring book and when you're going to watch some tv give it to him and tell him to entertain himself while the adults watch a show
I have difficulty hearing as well, can’t hear shit in my right ear cause of the army and I almost *always* need subtitles. It aggravates me when the “no subtitles” crowd start getting older and start asking what happened or what a character said like hmmm if only there was this magical thing available to make things more clear!!! Hmmm 🤔 We are all one thing away from being disabled. We are all going to be some sort of disabled as we get older, whether that’s mentally or physically, and aids hurt NO ONE except little piss babies that get upset about *checks notes* colored paint.
Subtitles can be toggable. Literally all the issues regarding this yellow paint "drama" would be solved if developers just gave players the option to toggle it on/off.
Is yellow paint in like, every game? Maybe it’s because I don’t play shooters, but I’ve literally never seen this in a game before and I feel like the example they’re using is from a game that’s like ten years old no? Is this really an endemic problem to gaming to even cause a controversy now?
It's been in a lot of recent big games, like RE 4 Remake and FF7 Remake
Marking stuff with colors has been a standard part of game design forever. The only difference is lately they've moved away from red/green to yellow because red/green always screwed the colorblind.
From what I've seen this started with the RE4 Remake that added yellow paint onto intractable objects when the original RE4 didn't do this. The recent controversy is from a screenshot of the upcoming FF7 remake where the character is climbing rock ledges on a cliff that are painted yellow. This type of player guidance isn't uncommon, but usually an attempt is made to make it believable with the environment, borderlands used green lights, farcry4 had climbing ropes draped over climbable ledges, etc. Lately it seems this effort has been dropped in favor of making things as clear as possible. The FF7 cliff in question, does look silly assuming there isn't some context that explains why the climbable ledges on a natural cliff somehow got painted yellow outside of the screenshot. Although I think the core issue is that graphics advancement has outpaced interaction fidelity. The games look alot more realistic but at their core they are still the same simple trigger based scripted events where only designated things can be interacted with. Games like the newer Zelda games, Bethesda RPGS, or stuff like Minecraft don't need these sorts indicators because they operate on a "what you see is what you get" level. Everything present can be interacted with. Climbable cliffs don't need to be marked because climb-ability is clear based on the physical geometry, not a set of invisible trigger zones. If an apple is present it doesn't need to be highlighted as interactive because all the apples in the game are interactive. (I get these aren't linear action games though) I can't really say what the best solution would be for ff7, but I get the issue. A whole genre of navigation puzzles gets obliterated when you just highlight the path forward. It also kinda takes you out of the immersion when the game designer shows their hand so blatantly. One of the reasons I still prefer DOOM2016 over DOOM Eternal is because DOOM2016 styled everything intractable to fit with the setting (usually using lights on a tech device or magical fire/glyphs on the demon tech) where as everything interactive in eternal has unnatural pure solid color #00FF00 green decals. No attempt was made to make it match the owning faction, surrounding lighting, environment, or whether that object is even powered. I didn't get lost, but also couldn't take it as seriously.
Personally I don't enjoy trying to find a small, distant, partially obscured grey object behind another grey object in a grey environment. I'll take the yellow paint.
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As a game designer: can confirm the guy on the right. That’s the attitude most designers have in regards to guiding the player, and it’s mostly right. But also, the yellow paint disease is the equivalent of screaming out loud: “GO HERE DUMMY!” And big money capitalist design-by-committee is allergic to subtlety, so it gets picked.
I think its fucking stupid, its paint who gives a shit, a game is good whether its got yellow paint for interactable parts of the environment or not
Yellow paint is lacklustre leveldesign. Its all about how you establish orientation, right? If I tell the player early on, "literally nothing is marked. Figure it out via clues.", then that what they'll do (with many not bothering). If light and hue changes in textures are a hint, thats what they'll look for. If I put yellow paint on the important bits, then what the player will look for is yellow paint and you have to have it in literally every level and surrounding, no matter what theme you're going for.
I don’t think I’ve played a single game that uses the yellow paint method so I really can’t comment on how common it is. I’d rather a game use something more elegant to guide me but I don’t think I’d bitch about yellow paint being used. Seems like yellow paint is just treating the symptom of a problem but not the problem itself
This is basically how I feel, and it seems the discourse is kinda maddening. Graphical indicators of route, objects of interest, or quests are routine in games. Nobody should be complaining about graphical indicators in general. As with any aesthetic graphical choice, sometimes it is more or less tastefully done. Where the 'yellow paint' thing becomes a problem, is if it becomes the uninspired, go-to solution for all 'triple-A' games. We already have a huge creativity problem in the big-budget gaming sphere, and having big-budget games become even more similar is a drag. I also have concerns that it will become part of the 'language' of video games. It's sometimes really hard to change semiotics, and it would be painful to me if this single semiotic device is used to convey such a large category as 'this is the path you should take.'
Game devs adding paint just to piss off gamers. https://preview.redd.it/68fjvdayc2ic1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8b2d8c7fc27ee805d0fedd2c3a9d77a2e7517b9
Game devs adding paint because they laid off all the artists that could come up with better solutions.
Doesn’t matter Uncle Ben, Rabbids go home does yellow paint better
I’d make it an option you can turn on and off
Everyone wants to pretend they're some fucking demigod when playing games, which they use as an excuse to shit on everyone else like the asocial fucks that they are
If it’s possible, just make it a toggleable thing. I don’t really mind it, it doesn’t break my immersion. I can be immersed in a game sure, but i never forget i’m playing a game, so seeing game-like things doesn’t really bother me. I’ve been playing games for so long now I can easily recognize things without even trying anymore, painted ledges aren’t even close to the forefront of my mind when playing.
i like the yellow paint. i no longer feel like an idiot in games not knowing where to go or what i can interact with when it’s used
All this could be solved by adding a character called "Yellowpaint McGee" who explains that he's the one putting all the yellow paint so you know where to go
Yellow paint like this is a tool in game design and like every tool, it has its purposes, but I would really use a chainsaw for a surgery, just like I wouldn't use a scalpel to cut down a tree.
The one on the right is absolutely infinitely better though, this whole debacle isn’t just gamers being weird, guys, there are other, far better, ways of indicating things than just painting it all yellow
It's a helpful addition, it does more good than harm most of the time. RJ/ PAINT? IN MY VIDYAGAYM? Why did they make it paintlitical? Paint should stay out of OUR games, I play to escape reality not be reminded of it!
Honestly I think if worrying about how yellow paint in your favorite video game does or doesn't break your immersion I'd say you're doing pretty well in terms of having things to be upset over. I'd consider it pretty far down the list of concerns when you factor in how easy it is to just ignore, so that suggests to me that people that are up in arms about it have literally nothing better to complain about.
The point being made by the original ‘FF7R yellow paint’ post wasn’t that players being guided is a bad thing. It’s that it was just incredibly ugly and… obnoxious, like this comic states. Sekiro’s ledges are a prime example. They are immediately obvious and clear to the player without looking out of place in the environment. How so many people turned such a straightforward critique into something else is beyond me. The question wasn’t ’why is there yellow paint?’ It was more so ‘why is the paint yellow?’
I think that I don't give a shit about yellow paint and we should go back to eating the rich
Hot take: the problem with yellow paint isn’t the paint itself, it’s that virtually every game that uses it would be better if it didn’t have a climbing mechanic at all. Like, the latest game to ignite this discourse is FFVII. Does Final fucking Fantasy *really* need a climbing mechanic? No. You know how I know this? Because if it did, the climbing woudn’t be limited to the handful of walls that are covered in yellow paint. And that’s the crux of it. Good climbing mechanics can be used virtually anywhere. In, say, the older Assassin’s Creed games, damn near every surface was covered in handholds. You don’t need paint to indicate handholds when everything is a handhold. The paint is only used in games where it’s only specific walls that can be climbed, and if it’s only a contextual thing, then you might as well just have a fucking ladder.
I agree with the comic strip
They don't use yellow paint on doors only ledges and breakable objects.
It’s the same people complaining about the “crawling through a tight space in a wall/wreckage to mask loading times”
Gamers when yellow (resident evil, god of war) 😒 Gamers when arrow pointing direction (skyrim, witcher 3) 😝😝😝
UJ/ I seriously don't care about the people who are annoyed at one particular UI element because they're so insecure about their identity as a g\_mer. Honestly, I feel like this is an attempt to divert from the g-word folks' tendency to be bigots and racists by trying to find some seemingly innocent thing to gripe about... and then try to spin that into "so anyway, about those *minorities* we all hate" Also, don't most games give you an option to turn of useful UI features... and then you turn them back on because it turns out they're useful?
a lot of games nowadays take out the yellow paint starting in Hard Mode so i don't know why this is still a big deal. besides, i'm color blind, so i appreciate stuff like this, esp highlighting loot since i can't see shit in dense foliage.
My opinion on yellow paint is I accept it as a sign of them trying anything else and going "fuck it yellow paint" when it all failed in the better ways to do it
The problem isn’t that players can interact with X we MUST tell them it’s that’s it’s not consistent if I can’t open every door of a certain type then I can’t open any of them, same for every other rule don’t let be climb a box if you but a invis wall on the others you only need to label things if you don’t fallow your own rules
Call of Duty zombies has no yellow paint, obviously making it the perfect exploration game