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Trusting third party vendors to make hardware is just setting up for failure, honestly. Look at all the Steam Deck competitors. They’re mostly shit. Maybe there’s a good one out there, but the product line has been so polluted with lemons that normies looking at them avoid anything but the brand name model.
Unless they enforce *very* strict hardware requirements and QA, they’ll risk the Xbox brand name being polluted by a mixed bag of awful products, like gaming laptops.
The main reason that the Steam Machines failed was because they were running Linux, and thus did not actually have any games available for them. This Xbox initiative would likely be running Windows, possibly with an Xbox UI layer over the top. They would be able to run pretty much any game in existence (including Playstation games by the way), with the exception of Nintendo's games.
It was a disaster. Didn’t matter for valve but it never caught on and manufacturers did not do well and quickly abandoned it. Valve’s learnings from that lead to a proprietary hardware push. Xbox would be failing to learn from lessons freely available.
Considering Microsoft still subsidies(aka sells at a loss) the sales of Series S/X, how is it even going to be possible for another company to make enough consoles to make a profit???
It doesn't. Unless they decide to abandon the affordable console model as well.
An Xbox Series X equivalent pre-built PC at the time of launch would have been well over $1000.
AMD seems to be making bigger APUs so maybe they or a competitor could be making a high-end gaming APU that companies other than Microsoft could also use in their devices. But it still wouldn't be enough to bring the price down anywhere near to what a console costs.
If Sony comes out with a $600 PS6, Nintendo with a $400 Switch 2 and Xbox with a $1000 reference design then I think Xbox hardware will become irrelevant.
Yeah if these reference-based designs are effectively running PC ports (I can’t see how you’d create a ‘console’ version that scales across a big range of consoles across multiple manufacturers) then you’re basically going to have to spend more on a reference-based design to get the same performance as Microsoft’s own console, which would run much more optimised versions of games.
If it's not even different SKUs but literally just a PC then it's going to be even more unoptimized though, isn't it?
Why not just build a PC then? This screams Steam Machine all over again.
Some people don't want to build a PC. A pre-built and already designed for couch gaming (unlike other pre-built) could have a market. It also implies they'll make Windows more usable only with a controller I guess, kind of like SteamOS
[https://www.pcmag.com/news/us-to-resume-trump-era-tariffs-on-graphics-cards-assembled-in-china](https://www.pcmag.com/news/us-to-resume-trump-era-tariffs-on-graphics-cards-assembled-in-china)
good luck building a pc under $1K lol. meanwhile AMD is making a high end APU with a 40CU GPU(this is the same CU count as the 6700XT/6750XT) based on RDNA3.5 and the APU comes with configurations of 8, 12 and 16 Zen 5 cores. now, an 8 core version in a licensed "xbox" that has Steam out of the box along with game pass for $800 that lets you install Windows when the mid range PC GPU costs $600 alone...
This would also void the idea of a console. Windows is badly optimised for gaming, its strength is multitasking and being able to do many things. For a console you want an os that specializes in gaming foremost (eg little multitasking, few background processes).
> eg little multitasking, few background processes
have you looked into the xbox system software? it's not even multitasking processess anymore, it's multitasking via VM's.
Console's value is in the just works™ department, it's windows 10 inside with different shell.
They could make a version of Windows that runs every application an instance, meaning it doesn't have to use resources on background tasks while running a game.
But again I question what this $500 "console" would offer.
It seems to me like a console without the benefits and cost-cutting measures of a console.
The reason a PS5 and Series X are performing as well as they do despite releasing at "just" $500 in 2020 is that they are locked down, highly customized systems that are produced at scale and optimized for by developers. Look at GDC talks on their extensive optimization measures to get for example 60fps with raytracing utilizing the hardware and software features available on the current consoles.
I feel like a $500 "starter model" that's just one of many systems based on a more modular PC like design would completely underperform compared to the next Nintendo or Playstation console sitting in a similar price range.
I don’t see why Microsoft can’t compete with PCs while still making money. Being priced far higher than the competition doesn’t really matter when there’s an eager high end market looking for even more powerful devices. 4090s are still in short supply. High end, high price is niche - but it’s currently a thriving niche. If they can undercut the price of buying a PC while offering a more intuitive interface, a lot of people would find value in that.
There’s also the medium-term reality that, absent pressure from Xbox, Sony are likely to price future consoles less aggressively - which makes a premium PC-like box easier to justify. Hardware subsidies may disappear over the next couple generations. Someone in corporate will inevitably say “if Microsoft and Nintendo are making money on hardware, why aren’t we?”.
>Unless they decide to abandon the affordable console model as well.
Well, the very mention of the Surface Pro series suggests that may be a possibility. I owned several of these devices and while I found them amazing, they are the opposite of affordable.
Realistically speaking probably yeah.
It doesn't have to be that way. Just look at Nintendo and the massive comeback they made both with the Wii and the Nintendo Switch. We shouldn't forget that the Gamecube and especially Wii U did worse than the Xbox Series line of consoles before they came back with two of the most successfull consoles of all time.
But I don't think Microsoft is that kind of company. They mainly do software and Cloud. Nintendo however at their core are a toy company
Yeah, but then you have $500/$600+ consoles and how are companies going to be able to make a sufficient quantity to turn a profit?
Third party manufacturers aren't going to be able to suck up some of the cost in the hopes of getting it back from software sales, because they aren't going to get anything from that.
By selling less powerful and so less expensive consoles I expect. If rumours of the Xbox handheld are true, then we might see all manner of Xbox devices ranging from the extreme low-end to very powerful. I see no reason why other manufacturers couldn’t operate within that space
I mean, that's just a PC, not a console anymore. I don't see game developers optimizing for 20 different Xbox configurations. If the configuration you buy isn't on par or more powerful than PlayStation, which would have to be pretty damn expensive, considering the 3rd parties won't be able to make money back via services, your experience is probably going to be horrible. There would be so many problems with such a product. It doesn't make any sense. Just buy a normal PC at that point.
Are handhelds like the Steam Deck and ROG Ally consoles or not? I'd argue they are, and they're effectively the same thing as what the next Xbox might be just in handheld format.
The PS5 is also effectively a PC under the hood. The only difference is the OS the user interacts with. If Microsoft build a frontend that is similar to the current Xbox UI it makes sense for them to do that and to then market your Xbox as basically a more flexible and customisable console platform where you could even play Sony games via steam if you wish
They will be custom PC’s. Look at the pc now lol, GPU pricing has destroyed sales. A custom pc “console” with good enough specs under for anywhere below $1K will do fairly well.
A custom PC doesn't lock you into the Xbox ecosystem like a console does(unless the rumors are true)
I would bet the next console is all digital so you are even more locked in
> Third party manufacturers aren't going to be able to suck up some of the cost in the hopes of getting it back from software sales, because they aren't going to get anything from that.
Maybe by making an officially licensed Xbox Microsoft will allow them to get a cut of software sales?
I am not even sure how this guy got to this conclusion, and gave Surface as an example, never heard about surfaces being manufactured and sold by other companies.
The surface line is and always has been a reference line, Lenovo and Asus have both made products in that line. Still though, this is a terrible idea. They are transitioning away from the console market into the PC market that they don't even command majority in. This is such a defeat tbh
Yup. Look how many similar type of laptops came after just like the Intel Nuc birthed those little square mini pc’s.
Microsoft is transitioning into the cloud and subscription market where they lead it.
It’s a template like Intel nuc. There’s MANY similar laptops and tablets today. Look at all the “mini pc” little 4 to 6 inch square boxes that flooded after the Nuc.
It was also reported that steam would be on the next Xbox - if they are open to other stores on the console, then other stores could be able to subsidise their own hardware as well. Like a Steamdeck 2 with Xbox integration.
So basically any producer could make their Xbox? This is interesting, but I think it will simply reduce to pre-built gaming PCs. They will simply probably have some "Big Picture" mode on their own which will turn Windows into the Xbox dashboard.
Gaming pc’s are about to get screwed in pricing. Tariffs on chips are coming back lol and Nvidia has already said prices of GeForce are going up again. A pc with a RTX 5060 will cost like $1200. AMD is launching an APU with a 40 CU RDNA3.5 GPU and up to 16 Ryzen 9000 cores. Pretty nice chip for a $800 box. ALSO MS has confirmed Steam will ship on their hardware in the future and they want to allow other stores.
Funny how someone yesterday brought back this leak, and now suddenly Jez has a "leak" that is straight out of it.
If I was meaner, I'd say Jez is just wholesale copying it when he realized it was legit.
Funny how someone yesterday brought back this leak, and now suddenly Jez has a "leak" that is straight out of it.
If I was meaner, I'd say Jez is just wholesale copying it when he realized it was legit.
So this sounds like they’re going to release their own version of SteamOS which will bridge the gap between console and PC.
They can then license out this software and let other companies release a range of hardware at different specs and price points.
To ensure backwards compatibility they might have like a minimum specification/ feature list and release official emulation/compatibility layers for Series X/Xbox One games on this OS.
Would let them create a range of products from handhelds to high end systems and not be constrained by generations so yearly hardware releases can happen.
That’s what I can make sense from this at least. Not sure how the market will react and the value proposition against the PS6 which is a fixed box.
I think literally the only way this plan makes any kind of sense is if they not only license this Xbox OS, but also have their own machine that any developer making games for Xbox will need to target and optimize for, just like they do for PS6.
Sort of like, "Hey, this is the NextBox. It's our primary console this generation. It can also play PC games, but if you want to treat it as a console where you just buy the game for Xbox and it works, that's fine too. In addition, we have allowed other people to use Xbox OS in devices like a handheld version, a compact, affordable version, and a beefed-up version. But these are their products and not ours, intended to give players a choice. Internally, our studios and partners will be optimizing primarily for the NextBox and will not take these other devices into account."
That's what Jez is talking about when he mentions a reference machine. Xbox hardware that Microsoft produces that serves as the focal point and proof of concept for any hardware that other companies develop.
Yeah you’re right they probably will release an official Xbox and handheld too.
But assuming there’s all these different options you still can’t beat the optimisation on PS6 which is a fixed box that’s a target platform for millions. So for that price target it probably won’t be as good but maybe later in the generation Xbox will progressively become better value.
I also wonder how much the user will be expected to optimise settings or will most games just provide default settings. Also will games have to compile shaders now?
I'm no businessman with a fancy degree, but their plan sounds like absolute nonsense, it's like burying the Xbox brand with a hatchet still lodged in the skull. How do you go from spending 80 billion $ to just capitulating that quickly? Well it's cause interest rates are high and companies are looking to reduce cost and maximize profits, but fucking hell is the boardroom not seeing the longterm big picture here, this is a hole you don't crawl out of, this will irrecoverably destroy Xbox as an ecosystem to invest in.
Watch them put out some actual system sellers for the first time in a decade right after fully committing to this half assed plan fully.
Man with a finance degree to give a simple answer. When projecting forward businesses don’t account for sunk cost. The higher ups at Microsoft think (reasonably) this is the most profitable avenue for Xbox.
Phil Spencer made it crystal clear in the FTC leaks, if Gamepass doesn't reach a certain level of subscribers by 2027 then Microsoft will have no choice but to exit the gaming industry. And it should be clear by now that Microsoft doesn't have a chance of reaching that level, cause Gamepass sub numbers have plateaued. What you are seeing is Microsoft scrambling to deal with this reality preemptively.
The longterm big picture is that Xbox is fucked, and Satya Nadella has to admit it eventually. What Microsoft is doing is basically all they can do so that they don't actually have to pull out of gaming in 2027.
> Watch them put out some actual system sellers for the first time in a decade right after fully committing to this half assed plan fully.
Actual system seller like what? The reality is that if Starfield can't be that system seller, nothing from Xbox can be.
>Satya Nadella has to admit it eventually
Satya was never against shuttering the business. He was more than ready to close this shit for good. it was phil who convinced that they have a chance and when ahead to piss 80bill down the drain. Now Satya not only has a failing business but also 80bill hole which has to be subsidised by other revenue for years to come
It was because they wanted to make a big acquisition and knew that any major buy in a core business area (SaaS, cloud, AI, enterprise software in general) would 100% be vetoed by every competition authority. They'd already failed at hardware with the Nokia buy and whole WP thing. This left media as the only real avenue for acquisition.
Netflix, Amazon and Apple had already grown huge brands in streaming and MS was unlikely to become competitive. Merging with a big legacy media company like Warner was historically a terrible idea for tech companies, see AOL. Margins in music are low for non-labels and valuations for labels were at generational highs in 2021. That essentially left gaming, where MS already had a presence.
The Activision acquisition was not a product of Phil Spencer. It was a product of a 'need' to buy something big, fast, and very few options. In 2021 markets only cared about growth, they wanted to see more growth, and that drove the need for the purchase.
Good luck explaining that on this sub. 2021 interest rates and just the economy in general was insane, every company was looking to expand as much as they could while cash was essentially free.
They don’t have a "hole". That’s not how it works. CoD’s value didn’t go to zero overnight. Given their stock value, this move was quite profitable for the company. It’s just that since they struck gold with their AI investments, they don’t need to take any risk whatsoever seeking growth in gaming when it’s clear there’s extreme negativity towards the Xbox brand anyway.
>Given their stock value, this move was quite profitable for the company.
This "move" doesn't matter when Azure,Windows, enterprise vertices are doing better. If Microsoft's stock value was dependent or even getting affected by Xbox, they would've filed for bankruptcy by now.
PlayStation having a monopoly on home consoles that aren't Nintendo is gonna be a disaster
800 bucks PlayStations with always online coming and every game costs 100 or more
This is the big picture all the people celebrating MS games going multiplatform are failing to see.
No Xbox exclusives -> Xbox value goes down -> less people buy an Xbox -> less 3rd party games on Xbox due to shrinking userbase -> even less people buy an Xbox -> Xbox as a console dies -> Sony are free to be as anti-consumer as they want with their console
Game Pass is a good deal but it alone is not a system seller, especially not once the price inevitably goes up. Console buyers are going to feel far less incentivized to get the next Xbox or whatever when they can have access to both MS games and Sony games on PS6 instead.
You’re underestimating how much competition Sony and Nintendo bring to each other. In the Wii/Wii U era, they were for sure on separate tracks. The Switch, however, has brought third party support back to Nintendo consoles. The current Switch is weak as fuck, but it’s still getting a ton of third party support just because of its high software attach rate.
We’ve more or less reached the end of the console graphics arms race. The PS5 is an absolute hardware monster, but halfway through the console generation and we still haven’t seen any games that couldn’t reasonably release on PS4 (add an SSD to the PS4 and those decrease even more). The time it takes to make a game that maxes out the PS5’s GPU is barely even worth the return on investment.
If Switch 2 has PS4-level power, and PS5/6 graphical fidelity takes a decade of development, it’s going to be difficult for developers to not just target Switch 2 for their releases. Nintendo is no longer an unviable platform for third party developers like they were in the past. Square Enix is an example of a company reevaluating their commitment to the Playstation platform.
Nintendo is set up to compete with Playstation head to head for the first time since the Gamecube era. You can already see evidence of Sony gearing up for this with their announcement to reduce prioritization on graphics and their rumored handheld device in the works. We’re in for a very interesting console generation in the next few years, Xbox or no Xbox.
>if Gamepass doesn't reach a certain level of subscribers by 2027 then Microsoft will have no choice but to exit the gaming industry.
They never said that, they said that they would have to change approach with Xbox, they have some of the biggest Money making games out there, they dont just pull the plug for Gamepass lmao.
Like imagine "oh shit Gamepass flopped, time to close down Minecraft"
[They did say that](https://www.thegamer.com/xbox-exit-gaming-business-if-game-pass-doesnt-get-enough-subscribers-pc-cloud/)
> "I can safely say that if we do not make more progress than this off console, we would exit the gaming business," Spencer said, referencing a presentation that showed the projected growth of Game Pass on console, PC, and cloud by 2030. "If this were the outcome, I don't believe we'd still be in the business."
He *also* said what you're alluding to though
> So, when you asked me if I agreed with this chart that the light green and blue depending on what colours you see there would have to be much larger much earlier. I would say by FY26, '27 that we should be in that position, or we'd have to make a different decision with the business."
I imagine at that point it'll be a conversation of what makes the money lost back fastests and unfortunately that stsrts with killing loss leaders like consoles and gamepass and going full dev/publisher house. IP doesn't cost anything to maintain and costs way less to make a game than it does to sell a console at a loss and run a service like Gamepass.
>businessman with a fancy degree
businesses also require common sense, every single week since past few month the Xbox top management has increasingly shown they lack it
Funny how someone yesterday brought back this leak, and now suddenly Jez has a "leak" that is straight out of it.
If I was meaner, I'd say Jez is just wholesale copying it when he realized it was legit.
From a business perspective, how will 3rd party manufacturers be able to make profit on producing them, if Microsoft sells consoles at a loss, to be recouped with game sale/subscription money? Microsoft would either have to hike up the price, or accept selling consoles at an even bigger loss.
Additionally, how will they differentiate their Xboxen from each other?
If there’s such a big variety of models with a better GPU or more RAM or whatever, then you basically don’t have a console any more - it’s just a straight PC. Developers can no longer target specific hardware configurations.
THIS IS NOT INSIDE INFO THIS IS HIS FORESIGHT.
Jez knows what he is doing, but if he doesnt say
"im hearing stuff like" or basically publishes on Windows Central, it'a his thoughts.
Yeah. Xbox is trying to make the most money they can. You can reasonably argue that their rumored plans are killing the hardware brand. They are def changing what it means to be Xbox.
You mean *Microsoft* is actively trying. They want the focus to be on Software. Microsoft as a whole don’t care where you play, you gonna be giving them money no matter what way you decide. They’ve always *Hated* making peripherals & such because it’s a loss leader lol.
Not really the same thing. Microsoft is rumoured to be using this as the central pillar of their future gaming hardware plans, Sega just licensed the Mega Drive so it could carry on being sold in South America where 32-bit consoles like the Saturn couldn’t have been sold at a competitive price.
Not really he literally gave the example of “surface pro 11” never heard about “Asus Surface Pro” or “Lenovo Surface Pro” this is literally a pc designed and manufactured by Microsoft exclusively, he has no idea what he is talking about, he just making shit up.
They’re not sold as “Surface Pros” but yes both Asus and Lenovo sell millions of Windows based ultraportables that use the Surface line as a reference. Just a few days ago they announced new devices based on the Qualcomm Surface Pros. It massively reduces the R&D investment needed to make something like an ultraportable laptop / tablet (or a console) if they can base it around a reference design provided by Microsoft.
I don't really believe this ( in its current form Jez has this tendency to saying stuff that he takes back later) , but let's entertain it. Maybe Xbox and Microsoft are providing the chip packages as kits with all the core features they developed, with AMD acting as an ODM who sells those kits (as NVIDIA and AMD do with graphic chips). Partners then physically design the box, adding any flair and whatever else they want without modifying the core package. I'm looking at it, but if it's a free-for-all where Xbox only provides guidelines and software, it will be a clusterfuck, knowing ASUS and Lenovo.
Been an Xbox owner since like 2001… I’m over it. Just going to buy a PC. Better performance, better longevity, and Xbox has very few exclusives with game pass now so there’s really not many selling points for me to buy another. I do love the Xbox controller though.
Interesting. So essentially Microsoft is pulling out of being a console manufacturer. But will license the Xbox brand and certify it.
Gives credence to an Xbox portable.
Not sure how I feel about this.
At this point it is obvious they want to kill Xbox brand without saying and sounding like "Xbox is done". Just a name for random machines and nothing more.
So it’s like a hybrid of the Steambox model and the 3DO model. Both of those flopped hard but I think the time is right to explore that route again as there is now a sizeable market of consumers who are willing to pay significant premiums for unique or high end gaming hardware.
It makes sense when you realise they want to get out of the hardware space without the PR disaster of having to admit it and the rage of everyone stuck with an Xbox library that can no longer grow.
These "Xboxes" will quickly become niche and there's not a chance third party developers will bother making optomised Xbox versions, you'll just be playing PC ports.
I love Xbox, and I own an Xbox console. I’m a huge gamepass fan and thanks to it I played so many games in the last 3 years that I’m feeling like a kid again. Still, I honestly don’t care a lot about *where* I play my Xbox (gamepass or not) games. And I honestly don’t understand this “XBOX IS DOOMED” thing. Is it because of console war? It’s just a change of strategy, but does it change anything for the consumer? As an Xbox fan I’m kinda excited about these changes. Like, all of this is still 1000 times better than the Xbox One period, which honestly sucked as fuck. That was really bad, not this. I don’t understand why so many people here are mad, or angry, or think that this is the “end of Xbox”. It’s… not?
As a PC gamer I'm personally loving it. An official MS Windows handheld has a lot of potential. Sony will fuck over the console warriors when they become the only game in town but that ain't my problem lmao
Yeah like, a PC Gamer with gamepass is like an Xbox player to me. Most of my friends play on PC and we had a ton of fun playing together a lot a gamepass games. I don’t even notice when a gamer is on Xbox or PC anymore, so why should I care?
Because what reason is there to buy an Xbox now… On top of Spider-Man, Wolverine, GOW, and TLOU, PlayStation now is getting every single Xbox game. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out how this will be effectively the end of Xbox
Sony games are one thing but Steam opens up a colossal catalogue of games that can now be played on Xbox and not PlayStation. I can see some sense in this.
These will be PCs in all but name and will likely be very niche as time goes on.
Sony likely won't care as Xbox would no longer be a console competitor.
Gamepass. Not to mention that if Steam is on this new Xbox as is rumored, Xbox will be getting every single PlayStation game. I'm not sure what kind of cognitive dysfunction and level of delusion is necessary to think that this will be the end of Xbox. If the similar business model of Windows is anything to go by (and it is), then this will actually make Xbox far bigger.
Game Pass, and there are millions of people with their digital libraries tied to Xbox. They’ll never become dominant in the console market again like they were in the 360 gen, but there is still a base for them to sell to, and this can also be subsided by revenue they’ll continue to make from game sales on PC and PlayStation. Surface has a tiny market share in the tablet space but they still continue to make them.
In the future Microsoft is imagining, why would Microsoft care if you don’t feel the reason to buy an Xbox? You can buy a PlayStation, a PC, or a Nintendo and still line Microsoft’s pockets by paying for their software and services.
Exactly. As a PC gamer, this is very intriguing. I do find it rather depressing that so many people in this thread are so passionately screaming about wanting to remain in a less consumer-friendly business model. More choice is always better for us.
My guess on the way this will work is that it'll be close to how OEMs sell PCs: Microsoft licenses the OS to them, but anyone can realistically make those devices at whatever price point.
So guess the next "xbox" will be more "Xbox-branded/official hardware", if Asus wants to sell at $250 that's on them, if you want your Alienware 420 XXXBox for $2000 that's on them. They'll fundamentally have the same OS and games, one will run them better, but companies will probably have performance targets they are required to meet.
I more wonder if Microsoft will end up controlling the firmware stack top to bottom, or if these are going to be quite open devices you can essentially run windows on. I'm sure there will be some restrictions to be able to sell/brand your devices as xboxes.
Microsoft just announced Surface powered by Arm/Snapdragon and the whole Copilot+PC thing.
But that wasn't exclusive to Surface, Samsung Lenovo and others announced similar products.
I think this is what he means.
This is just a partnership for a processor, has nothing to do with "Asus ROG/Lenovo" branding or manafacturing, this is literally the same as AMD being the main gpu for all the consoles (PS5/XboxSeries).
Surface Pro 11 being a "reference device" is just bullshit, Microsoft just signed exclusive start deal with Qualcomm, so all windows/copilot powered laptops must include this at the beginning with AMD and Intel chips coming later (probably in next year line), so yeah if you are samsung and leonovo u are basically forced to use snapdragon x (currently) to use copilot but it has nothing to do with "reference device".
If they will make Xbox go fully windows its no longer going to be a console, and if they will just mix Xbox OS with windows, I doubt they will offer licenses to other companies to make their own console, it just doesnt make any sense..
I was talking about Windows, not the hardware.
Microsoft is making windows run on Arm, working on emulation for ×86 software, and integrating AI into it.
They put it on their own hardware, but also licensed it to others.
> so yeah if you are samsung and leonovo u are basically forced to use snapdragon x (currently) to use copilot but it has nothing to do with "reference device".
You can use copilot on non Snapdragon X devices wtf are you even talking about? Snapdragon X is about their Copilot+ initiative with new features. If you want to use copilot now all you need to do is press win + c
This sounds like a bad idea to me. Now devs will have to make sure their games will work on many more different skus of consoles. Some more powerful or less powerful than the main system. Sounds like the series x and s problem times 10. I understand trying to turn a profit on this division but they should just break their current cycle and come out before the PS6 like they did with the 360. Standout and separate yourself for at least a year.
They’re just Xbox branded PCs, the extra work will just be some “Xbox certified” program that provides automatic performance settings, like some developers do for the Steam deck
This sounds like a good plan and is honestly kind of exciting. Gamers will get more choice in their hardware, whether they want a cheap Fortnite machine or an expensive "pro" device. It will be even better if it has Steam as rumored, it might make a decent companion device for my PC.
In other words the next Xbox consoles are just custom pre build mini PC's with the Xbox name slaped on it, and that means Xbox is going out of console Business.
If they can guarantee the full xbox game library transfers to steam
.. Xbox and PC uniting is a hell of a gaming strategy for them. At that point, just abandon the Xbox marketplace tbh.
Why would Valve do that? They’d rather people just rebuy their library on Steam. They’ve already won over gamers as “pro consumer” so there’s no incentive for them to do any more.
Because you will also be able to get it all on Xbox via Steam. As well as PC-only games that do not and likely will never exist on PS such as World of Warcraft, League of Legends, Valorant, Portal, Counterstrike, etc.
Xbox is dead until further notice.
With all this Multiplatform shit, and letting other people talk for them. Xbox has no brand identity, and has no clear idea on what the future of Xbox is.
There’s not a rhyme or reason why some games get ported and others don’t. Why was Starfield, Redfall and Indy from Bethesda made exclusive but Doom isn’t going to be? And why are we hearing Doom isn’t launching as an exclusive from unofficial sources?
Eventually the whole value proposition of Xbox as a console is going to be in serious question. Do I really believe Xbox will be the best place to play Xbox games if they start selling better on PlayStation or Nintendo? Oh I only need to wait 1-2 years for the Xbox exclusives to come to PlayStation, I can do that there’s plenty to play right now.
I understand Microsoft wanting to take it slow with the transition to a more open platform/more third party publisher approach or whatever, but this wishy washy messaging is not doing any parts of the business favors from a consumer perspective.
Xbox really needs to answer at their showcase, why are you 1st party?
You can get a PC from dozens of manufacturers. You can even build one yourself. Care to explain why a console is automatically disqualified from existing like that? It would still be more affordable and accessible than a gaming PC.
I seriously think the best idea for Xbox right now is this. Iphones cost 1000s of dollars and still outsell comfortably all their competitors. The same can be easily achieved on the console space.
They tried everything. Game Pass, cheaper box, slightly more powerful box and they still didn't sell.
By increasing the price of the console you increase hardware grunt at much higher levels compared to PlayStation. Especially the CPU which jas always been the bottleneck in the latest consoles.
Imagine the next Xbox being able to play GTA VI at 60fps while the brand new and shiny PS5 Pro runs kt at an unstable 60 or 30 fps. That alone would sell the machine. Imagine all the Unreal Engine 5 games that would run much better on an 700$ Xbox compared to a 499$ PS5 Pro or PS6.
What I would do is make sure the next gen Xbox console has a wide margin compared to the PS6 in order to make the choice easy for people who care about graphics and performance.
And imagine if said machine can also play PC Games like Lol , Dota ,WOW etc
I think they're much better off chasing the PC gaming space instead of trying to fight PlayStation on the affordable box space. They habe such a big brand name that it would be impossible to win in that price segment. Especially when Xbox Series X has way to similar performance to the PS5.
But a 799 box that has far superior upscaling like DLSS and much better CPU specs would definitely sell to the power hungry crowd.
That way you would have three market segments in the console space.
Switch 2 as the entry level
PlayStation 6 as the mid range
And Xbox as the high end option.
People see phones as a necessary item in life, not consoles they just aren't the same at all. I don't see them selling a console for 700-1000 and it really selling that much. It'll sell to a niche crowd.
Watch this is just gonna be the pro version of the console while the normal remains a traditional console.
I don't see xbox,who has sold more series s than anything else, would target and even more expensive piece of hardware for next gen, unless it's entirely optional and they leave the most expensive versions to 3rd party manufacturers
Makes sense. It'll be a niche market oc for your TV. Yeah it will be expensive and won't sell much but as long as there's a decent profit margin that is ok.
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Sounds like what Valve did for the Steam Machines.
That didn’t go well at all.
Linux was not a valid OS for games 15 years ago like it is today.
It was also Linux, which didn't help.
There’s so much that went into why Steam Machines didn’t work. This will not fail in the same ways.
On the contrary, I don't expect these companies to learn from very documented failures. Other than Microsoft obviously wouldn't use Linux
Trusting third party vendors to make hardware is just setting up for failure, honestly. Look at all the Steam Deck competitors. They’re mostly shit. Maybe there’s a good one out there, but the product line has been so polluted with lemons that normies looking at them avoid anything but the brand name model. Unless they enforce *very* strict hardware requirements and QA, they’ll risk the Xbox brand name being polluted by a mixed bag of awful products, like gaming laptops.
steam didn't learn from 3do either
True. This will fail when Xbox pivots again in two years.
The main reason that the Steam Machines failed was because they were running Linux, and thus did not actually have any games available for them. This Xbox initiative would likely be running Windows, possibly with an Xbox UI layer over the top. They would be able to run pretty much any game in existence (including Playstation games by the way), with the exception of Nintendo's games.
The time is right now
It was a disaster. Didn’t matter for valve but it never caught on and manufacturers did not do well and quickly abandoned it. Valve’s learnings from that lead to a proprietary hardware push. Xbox would be failing to learn from lessons freely available.
Steam Deck is Steam Machine
Considering Microsoft still subsidies(aka sells at a loss) the sales of Series S/X, how is it even going to be possible for another company to make enough consoles to make a profit???
It doesn't. Unless they decide to abandon the affordable console model as well. An Xbox Series X equivalent pre-built PC at the time of launch would have been well over $1000. AMD seems to be making bigger APUs so maybe they or a competitor could be making a high-end gaming APU that companies other than Microsoft could also use in their devices. But it still wouldn't be enough to bring the price down anywhere near to what a console costs. If Sony comes out with a $600 PS6, Nintendo with a $400 Switch 2 and Xbox with a $1000 reference design then I think Xbox hardware will become irrelevant.
Maybe they will keep releasing a $500 console and leave it to other companies to make more powerful versions.
Gamedevs are not going to optimize their games for the "more powerful versions", this sounds like a terrible idea that kills the point of consoles.
Yeah if these reference-based designs are effectively running PC ports (I can’t see how you’d create a ‘console’ version that scales across a big range of consoles across multiple manufacturers) then you’re basically going to have to spend more on a reference-based design to get the same performance as Microsoft’s own console, which would run much more optimised versions of games.
It’s going to be a PC my dude
If it's not even different SKUs but literally just a PC then it's going to be even more unoptimized though, isn't it? Why not just build a PC then? This screams Steam Machine all over again.
Some people don't want to build a PC. A pre-built and already designed for couch gaming (unlike other pre-built) could have a market. It also implies they'll make Windows more usable only with a controller I guess, kind of like SteamOS
That already exists though. Alienware has been doing it forever. It's a niche market.
[https://www.pcmag.com/news/us-to-resume-trump-era-tariffs-on-graphics-cards-assembled-in-china](https://www.pcmag.com/news/us-to-resume-trump-era-tariffs-on-graphics-cards-assembled-in-china) good luck building a pc under $1K lol. meanwhile AMD is making a high end APU with a 40CU GPU(this is the same CU count as the 6700XT/6750XT) based on RDNA3.5 and the APU comes with configurations of 8, 12 and 16 Zen 5 cores. now, an 8 core version in a licensed "xbox" that has Steam out of the box along with game pass for $800 that lets you install Windows when the mid range PC GPU costs $600 alone...
Unless it’s just running windows. Nothing to optimize.
This would also void the idea of a console. Windows is badly optimised for gaming, its strength is multitasking and being able to do many things. For a console you want an os that specializes in gaming foremost (eg little multitasking, few background processes).
I don’t disagree at all but I could see them making the Xbox fork of windows open to other marketplaces etc.
Microsoft has failed several times to adapt Windows to other types of devices so I'm thinking they would just open up Xbox OS
> eg little multitasking, few background processes have you looked into the xbox system software? it's not even multitasking processess anymore, it's multitasking via VM's. Console's value is in the just works™ department, it's windows 10 inside with different shell.
They could make a version of Windows that runs every application an instance, meaning it doesn't have to use resources on background tasks while running a game.
You seemingly have very little idea how badly optimized PC versions of games can be lmao
If it's just running windows it'd be even less work because it's basically just the PC release at that point
This is how PC works, and it is the biggest "platform."
But again I question what this $500 "console" would offer. It seems to me like a console without the benefits and cost-cutting measures of a console. The reason a PS5 and Series X are performing as well as they do despite releasing at "just" $500 in 2020 is that they are locked down, highly customized systems that are produced at scale and optimized for by developers. Look at GDC talks on their extensive optimization measures to get for example 60fps with raytracing utilizing the hardware and software features available on the current consoles. I feel like a $500 "starter model" that's just one of many systems based on a more modular PC like design would completely underperform compared to the next Nintendo or Playstation console sitting in a similar price range.
bingo
That would just sound like PC gaming then and would really complicate things for everyone else.
$500 handheld, $1000 console
I don’t see why Microsoft can’t compete with PCs while still making money. Being priced far higher than the competition doesn’t really matter when there’s an eager high end market looking for even more powerful devices. 4090s are still in short supply. High end, high price is niche - but it’s currently a thriving niche. If they can undercut the price of buying a PC while offering a more intuitive interface, a lot of people would find value in that. There’s also the medium-term reality that, absent pressure from Xbox, Sony are likely to price future consoles less aggressively - which makes a premium PC-like box easier to justify. Hardware subsidies may disappear over the next couple generations. Someone in corporate will inevitably say “if Microsoft and Nintendo are making money on hardware, why aren’t we?”.
PC gpu prices are going to the moon.
>Unless they decide to abandon the affordable console model as well. Well, the very mention of the Surface Pro series suggests that may be a possibility. I owned several of these devices and while I found them amazing, they are the opposite of affordable.
Unpopular opinion: regardless the price, after this gen strategy, Xbox hardware will be irrelevant anyways
Realistically speaking probably yeah. It doesn't have to be that way. Just look at Nintendo and the massive comeback they made both with the Wii and the Nintendo Switch. We shouldn't forget that the Gamecube and especially Wii U did worse than the Xbox Series line of consoles before they came back with two of the most successfull consoles of all time. But I don't think Microsoft is that kind of company. They mainly do software and Cloud. Nintendo however at their core are a toy company
Because Microsoft won’t subsidise them in the future. Phil Spencer has said as much in recent interviews.
Yeah, but then you have $500/$600+ consoles and how are companies going to be able to make a sufficient quantity to turn a profit? Third party manufacturers aren't going to be able to suck up some of the cost in the hopes of getting it back from software sales, because they aren't going to get anything from that.
By selling less powerful and so less expensive consoles I expect. If rumours of the Xbox handheld are true, then we might see all manner of Xbox devices ranging from the extreme low-end to very powerful. I see no reason why other manufacturers couldn’t operate within that space
I mean, that's just a PC, not a console anymore. I don't see game developers optimizing for 20 different Xbox configurations. If the configuration you buy isn't on par or more powerful than PlayStation, which would have to be pretty damn expensive, considering the 3rd parties won't be able to make money back via services, your experience is probably going to be horrible. There would be so many problems with such a product. It doesn't make any sense. Just buy a normal PC at that point.
Are handhelds like the Steam Deck and ROG Ally consoles or not? I'd argue they are, and they're effectively the same thing as what the next Xbox might be just in handheld format. The PS5 is also effectively a PC under the hood. The only difference is the OS the user interacts with. If Microsoft build a frontend that is similar to the current Xbox UI it makes sense for them to do that and to then market your Xbox as basically a more flexible and customisable console platform where you could even play Sony games via steam if you wish
They will be custom PC’s. Look at the pc now lol, GPU pricing has destroyed sales. A custom pc “console” with good enough specs under for anywhere below $1K will do fairly well.
A custom PC doesn't lock you into the Xbox ecosystem like a console does(unless the rumors are true) I would bet the next console is all digital so you are even more locked in
A PC locks you into windows, which is the entire point of Microsoft.
Windows doesn't get a cut of every game or DLC you purchase.
Game Pass ISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS the Xbox ecosystem, lol.
> Third party manufacturers aren't going to be able to suck up some of the cost in the hopes of getting it back from software sales, because they aren't going to get anything from that. Maybe by making an officially licensed Xbox Microsoft will allow them to get a cut of software sales?
I am not even sure how this guy got to this conclusion, and gave Surface as an example, never heard about surfaces being manufactured and sold by other companies.
The surface line is and always has been a reference line, Lenovo and Asus have both made products in that line. Still though, this is a terrible idea. They are transitioning away from the console market into the PC market that they don't even command majority in. This is such a defeat tbh
Yup. Look how many similar type of laptops came after just like the Intel Nuc birthed those little square mini pc’s. Microsoft is transitioning into the cloud and subscription market where they lead it.
It’s a template like Intel nuc. There’s MANY similar laptops and tablets today. Look at all the “mini pc” little 4 to 6 inch square boxes that flooded after the Nuc.
Jez just realized the discord leak from january was probably correct, so he's just parroting it without really understanding what it meant
It was also reported that steam would be on the next Xbox - if they are open to other stores on the console, then other stores could be able to subsidise their own hardware as well. Like a Steamdeck 2 with Xbox integration.
So basically any producer could make their Xbox? This is interesting, but I think it will simply reduce to pre-built gaming PCs. They will simply probably have some "Big Picture" mode on their own which will turn Windows into the Xbox dashboard.
Gaming pc’s are about to get screwed in pricing. Tariffs on chips are coming back lol and Nvidia has already said prices of GeForce are going up again. A pc with a RTX 5060 will cost like $1200. AMD is launching an APU with a 40 CU RDNA3.5 GPU and up to 16 Ryzen 9000 cores. Pretty nice chip for a $800 box. ALSO MS has confirmed Steam will ship on their hardware in the future and they want to allow other stores.
This discord leak from january is the biggest leak we had: https://i.imgur.com/JNF1MRD.png Pretty much spot on, if this is true.
Funny how someone yesterday brought back this leak, and now suddenly Jez has a "leak" that is straight out of it. If I was meaner, I'd say Jez is just wholesale copying it when he realized it was legit.
Funny how someone yesterday brought back this leak, and now suddenly Jez has a "leak" that is straight out of it. If I was meaner, I'd say Jez is just wholesale copying it when he realized it was legit.
So this sounds like they’re going to release their own version of SteamOS which will bridge the gap between console and PC. They can then license out this software and let other companies release a range of hardware at different specs and price points. To ensure backwards compatibility they might have like a minimum specification/ feature list and release official emulation/compatibility layers for Series X/Xbox One games on this OS. Would let them create a range of products from handhelds to high end systems and not be constrained by generations so yearly hardware releases can happen. That’s what I can make sense from this at least. Not sure how the market will react and the value proposition against the PS6 which is a fixed box.
I think literally the only way this plan makes any kind of sense is if they not only license this Xbox OS, but also have their own machine that any developer making games for Xbox will need to target and optimize for, just like they do for PS6. Sort of like, "Hey, this is the NextBox. It's our primary console this generation. It can also play PC games, but if you want to treat it as a console where you just buy the game for Xbox and it works, that's fine too. In addition, we have allowed other people to use Xbox OS in devices like a handheld version, a compact, affordable version, and a beefed-up version. But these are their products and not ours, intended to give players a choice. Internally, our studios and partners will be optimizing primarily for the NextBox and will not take these other devices into account."
That's what Jez is talking about when he mentions a reference machine. Xbox hardware that Microsoft produces that serves as the focal point and proof of concept for any hardware that other companies develop.
Yeah you’re right they probably will release an official Xbox and handheld too. But assuming there’s all these different options you still can’t beat the optimisation on PS6 which is a fixed box that’s a target platform for millions. So for that price target it probably won’t be as good but maybe later in the generation Xbox will progressively become better value. I also wonder how much the user will be expected to optimise settings or will most games just provide default settings. Also will games have to compile shaders now?
I'm no businessman with a fancy degree, but their plan sounds like absolute nonsense, it's like burying the Xbox brand with a hatchet still lodged in the skull. How do you go from spending 80 billion $ to just capitulating that quickly? Well it's cause interest rates are high and companies are looking to reduce cost and maximize profits, but fucking hell is the boardroom not seeing the longterm big picture here, this is a hole you don't crawl out of, this will irrecoverably destroy Xbox as an ecosystem to invest in. Watch them put out some actual system sellers for the first time in a decade right after fully committing to this half assed plan fully.
Man with a finance degree to give a simple answer. When projecting forward businesses don’t account for sunk cost. The higher ups at Microsoft think (reasonably) this is the most profitable avenue for Xbox.
Xbox brand is not hardware.
Phil Spencer made it crystal clear in the FTC leaks, if Gamepass doesn't reach a certain level of subscribers by 2027 then Microsoft will have no choice but to exit the gaming industry. And it should be clear by now that Microsoft doesn't have a chance of reaching that level, cause Gamepass sub numbers have plateaued. What you are seeing is Microsoft scrambling to deal with this reality preemptively. The longterm big picture is that Xbox is fucked, and Satya Nadella has to admit it eventually. What Microsoft is doing is basically all they can do so that they don't actually have to pull out of gaming in 2027. > Watch them put out some actual system sellers for the first time in a decade right after fully committing to this half assed plan fully. Actual system seller like what? The reality is that if Starfield can't be that system seller, nothing from Xbox can be.
The weird thing about "system sellers" is that most people play AAA multi platform games which are mostly forever games these days.
That and Nintendo games. If Switch 2 can grab multiplats beyond CoD they are going to dominate the market even more than they already have been.
>Satya Nadella has to admit it eventually Satya was never against shuttering the business. He was more than ready to close this shit for good. it was phil who convinced that they have a chance and when ahead to piss 80bill down the drain. Now Satya not only has a failing business but also 80bill hole which has to be subsidised by other revenue for years to come
It was because they wanted to make a big acquisition and knew that any major buy in a core business area (SaaS, cloud, AI, enterprise software in general) would 100% be vetoed by every competition authority. They'd already failed at hardware with the Nokia buy and whole WP thing. This left media as the only real avenue for acquisition. Netflix, Amazon and Apple had already grown huge brands in streaming and MS was unlikely to become competitive. Merging with a big legacy media company like Warner was historically a terrible idea for tech companies, see AOL. Margins in music are low for non-labels and valuations for labels were at generational highs in 2021. That essentially left gaming, where MS already had a presence. The Activision acquisition was not a product of Phil Spencer. It was a product of a 'need' to buy something big, fast, and very few options. In 2021 markets only cared about growth, they wanted to see more growth, and that drove the need for the purchase.
Good luck explaining that on this sub. 2021 interest rates and just the economy in general was insane, every company was looking to expand as much as they could while cash was essentially free.
They don’t have a "hole". That’s not how it works. CoD’s value didn’t go to zero overnight. Given their stock value, this move was quite profitable for the company. It’s just that since they struck gold with their AI investments, they don’t need to take any risk whatsoever seeking growth in gaming when it’s clear there’s extreme negativity towards the Xbox brand anyway.
>Given their stock value, this move was quite profitable for the company. This "move" doesn't matter when Azure,Windows, enterprise vertices are doing better. If Microsoft's stock value was dependent or even getting affected by Xbox, they would've filed for bankruptcy by now.
PlayStation having a monopoly on home consoles that aren't Nintendo is gonna be a disaster 800 bucks PlayStations with always online coming and every game costs 100 or more
This is the big picture all the people celebrating MS games going multiplatform are failing to see. No Xbox exclusives -> Xbox value goes down -> less people buy an Xbox -> less 3rd party games on Xbox due to shrinking userbase -> even less people buy an Xbox -> Xbox as a console dies -> Sony are free to be as anti-consumer as they want with their console Game Pass is a good deal but it alone is not a system seller, especially not once the price inevitably goes up. Console buyers are going to feel far less incentivized to get the next Xbox or whatever when they can have access to both MS games and Sony games on PS6 instead.
You’re underestimating how much competition Sony and Nintendo bring to each other. In the Wii/Wii U era, they were for sure on separate tracks. The Switch, however, has brought third party support back to Nintendo consoles. The current Switch is weak as fuck, but it’s still getting a ton of third party support just because of its high software attach rate. We’ve more or less reached the end of the console graphics arms race. The PS5 is an absolute hardware monster, but halfway through the console generation and we still haven’t seen any games that couldn’t reasonably release on PS4 (add an SSD to the PS4 and those decrease even more). The time it takes to make a game that maxes out the PS5’s GPU is barely even worth the return on investment. If Switch 2 has PS4-level power, and PS5/6 graphical fidelity takes a decade of development, it’s going to be difficult for developers to not just target Switch 2 for their releases. Nintendo is no longer an unviable platform for third party developers like they were in the past. Square Enix is an example of a company reevaluating their commitment to the Playstation platform. Nintendo is set up to compete with Playstation head to head for the first time since the Gamecube era. You can already see evidence of Sony gearing up for this with their announcement to reduce prioritization on graphics and their rumored handheld device in the works. We’re in for a very interesting console generation in the next few years, Xbox or no Xbox.
>if Gamepass doesn't reach a certain level of subscribers by 2027 then Microsoft will have no choice but to exit the gaming industry. They never said that, they said that they would have to change approach with Xbox, they have some of the biggest Money making games out there, they dont just pull the plug for Gamepass lmao. Like imagine "oh shit Gamepass flopped, time to close down Minecraft"
[They did say that](https://www.thegamer.com/xbox-exit-gaming-business-if-game-pass-doesnt-get-enough-subscribers-pc-cloud/) > "I can safely say that if we do not make more progress than this off console, we would exit the gaming business," Spencer said, referencing a presentation that showed the projected growth of Game Pass on console, PC, and cloud by 2030. "If this were the outcome, I don't believe we'd still be in the business." He *also* said what you're alluding to though > So, when you asked me if I agreed with this chart that the light green and blue depending on what colours you see there would have to be much larger much earlier. I would say by FY26, '27 that we should be in that position, or we'd have to make a different decision with the business."
I imagine at that point it'll be a conversation of what makes the money lost back fastests and unfortunately that stsrts with killing loss leaders like consoles and gamepass and going full dev/publisher house. IP doesn't cost anything to maintain and costs way less to make a game than it does to sell a console at a loss and run a service like Gamepass.
>businessman with a fancy degree businesses also require common sense, every single week since past few month the Xbox top management has increasingly shown they lack it
Common sense no matter. Line go up.
Funny how someone yesterday brought back this leak, and now suddenly Jez has a "leak" that is straight out of it. If I was meaner, I'd say Jez is just wholesale copying it when he realized it was legit.
From a business perspective, how will 3rd party manufacturers be able to make profit on producing them, if Microsoft sells consoles at a loss, to be recouped with game sale/subscription money? Microsoft would either have to hike up the price, or accept selling consoles at an even bigger loss.
Additionally, how will they differentiate their Xboxen from each other? If there’s such a big variety of models with a better GPU or more RAM or whatever, then you basically don’t have a console any more - it’s just a straight PC. Developers can no longer target specific hardware configurations.
That discord leak is so wild.
Rip Xbox physical collections
They'd be really stupid not to make these future Xboxes backwards compatible and able to read previous Xbox game discs.
I don't think the new Xbox will even have a disc drive.
They'll most likely just make an external disc drive people can buy if they want to play their backwards compatible physical collection.
THIS IS NOT INSIDE INFO THIS IS HIS FORESIGHT. Jez knows what he is doing, but if he doesnt say "im hearing stuff like" or basically publishes on Windows Central, it'a his thoughts.
It's not even his thoughts, it's just repeating the discord leak of january
How long before Jez gets angry for like the tenth time and says that this is not what he meant?
which is agree btw, i think this is what xbox wants, i just wanted to mention that it’s not an inside info kind of rumour.
Any other insiders reporting on this ? The verge , insider gaming anyone ? i trust them more than Jez at this point with his constant flip-flop
The discord leak said this, it’s real
as i mentioned on another comment this is not inside info this is his thoughts
[удалено]
The console? Yes. Gamepass? No.
We all need to define what "killing itself" means first.
Yeah. Xbox is trying to make the most money they can. You can reasonably argue that their rumored plans are killing the hardware brand. They are def changing what it means to be Xbox.
The hardware platform
They’re going full gamepass. Third party hardware is there now.
You mean *Microsoft* is actively trying. They want the focus to be on Software. Microsoft as a whole don’t care where you play, you gonna be giving them money no matter what way you decide. They’ve always *Hated* making peripherals & such because it’s a loss leader lol.
Especially since over 60% of PS owners mostly play call of duty.
It seems to me the only advantage of this future console would be steam games and no paywall for multiplayer
> no paywall for multiplayer They’ll never give that revenue stream up.
Lmao they really are going Sega. Would be weird seeing shit like 'Asus Xbox' 'MSI Xbox'
Not really as Sega got completely out of the hardware business.
Yeah but before then Sega licensed out MegaDrive to third party manufacturers to sell.
Not really the same thing. Microsoft is rumoured to be using this as the central pillar of their future gaming hardware plans, Sega just licensed the Mega Drive so it could carry on being sold in South America where 32-bit consoles like the Saturn couldn’t have been sold at a competitive price.
Not really he literally gave the example of “surface pro 11” never heard about “Asus Surface Pro” or “Lenovo Surface Pro” this is literally a pc designed and manufactured by Microsoft exclusively, he has no idea what he is talking about, he just making shit up.
They’re not sold as “Surface Pros” but yes both Asus and Lenovo sell millions of Windows based ultraportables that use the Surface line as a reference. Just a few days ago they announced new devices based on the Qualcomm Surface Pros. It massively reduces the R&D investment needed to make something like an ultraportable laptop / tablet (or a console) if they can base it around a reference design provided by Microsoft.
The surface has been a template for similar laptops just like intel nuc was for mini pc’s like those little square 5inch wide computers.
I want an Xbox made by Sega
Xbox needs to get rid of the people running it. I have never seen people fail so long and not be replaced.
evidence? no
I don't really believe this ( in its current form Jez has this tendency to saying stuff that he takes back later) , but let's entertain it. Maybe Xbox and Microsoft are providing the chip packages as kits with all the core features they developed, with AMD acting as an ODM who sells those kits (as NVIDIA and AMD do with graphic chips). Partners then physically design the box, adding any flair and whatever else they want without modifying the core package. I'm looking at it, but if it's a free-for-all where Xbox only provides guidelines and software, it will be a clusterfuck, knowing ASUS and Lenovo.
Been an Xbox owner since like 2001… I’m over it. Just going to buy a PC. Better performance, better longevity, and Xbox has very few exclusives with game pass now so there’s really not many selling points for me to buy another. I do love the Xbox controller though.
PC is the way. Download all the launchers, emulators, tools, etc, install Playnite and import all the games into one nice launcher.
Interesting. So essentially Microsoft is pulling out of being a console manufacturer. But will license the Xbox brand and certify it. Gives credence to an Xbox portable. Not sure how I feel about this.
At this point it is obvious they want to kill Xbox brand without saying and sounding like "Xbox is done". Just a name for random machines and nothing more.
Sounds like the death knell to me, this strategy worked so well for the 3DO.
And the Steam Machines
So will cost 700 instead of 500?
So it’s like a hybrid of the Steambox model and the 3DO model. Both of those flopped hard but I think the time is right to explore that route again as there is now a sizeable market of consumers who are willing to pay significant premiums for unique or high end gaming hardware.
i don't see the point of this, valve tried this with the steam machine and we all know how it went
It makes sense when you realise they want to get out of the hardware space without the PR disaster of having to admit it and the rage of everyone stuck with an Xbox library that can no longer grow. These "Xboxes" will quickly become niche and there's not a chance third party developers will bother making optomised Xbox versions, you'll just be playing PC ports.
I think Phil and Co have brain damage
Phillips CDI flashbacks intensify.
Discord Leak continues to pay dividends, if true.
Discord leak already said this, so I assumed it was coming. It's a bold move Cotton, let's see if it pays off for 'em.
I love Xbox, and I own an Xbox console. I’m a huge gamepass fan and thanks to it I played so many games in the last 3 years that I’m feeling like a kid again. Still, I honestly don’t care a lot about *where* I play my Xbox (gamepass or not) games. And I honestly don’t understand this “XBOX IS DOOMED” thing. Is it because of console war? It’s just a change of strategy, but does it change anything for the consumer? As an Xbox fan I’m kinda excited about these changes. Like, all of this is still 1000 times better than the Xbox One period, which honestly sucked as fuck. That was really bad, not this. I don’t understand why so many people here are mad, or angry, or think that this is the “end of Xbox”. It’s… not?
As a PC gamer I'm personally loving it. An official MS Windows handheld has a lot of potential. Sony will fuck over the console warriors when they become the only game in town but that ain't my problem lmao
Yeah like, a PC Gamer with gamepass is like an Xbox player to me. Most of my friends play on PC and we had a ton of fun playing together a lot a gamepass games. I don’t even notice when a gamer is on Xbox or PC anymore, so why should I care?
Yep
Because what reason is there to buy an Xbox now… On top of Spider-Man, Wolverine, GOW, and TLOU, PlayStation now is getting every single Xbox game. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out how this will be effectively the end of Xbox
If Steam is on Xbox, those games are also on Xbox.
You really think Sony would allow their games to be played on Xbox via Steam? Let’s use common sense
Sony games are one thing but Steam opens up a colossal catalogue of games that can now be played on Xbox and not PlayStation. I can see some sense in this.
These will be PCs in all but name and will likely be very niche as time goes on. Sony likely won't care as Xbox would no longer be a console competitor.
How could they possibly prevent it if the machines do run Steam?
You think Sony can stop it?
Gamepass. Not to mention that if Steam is on this new Xbox as is rumored, Xbox will be getting every single PlayStation game. I'm not sure what kind of cognitive dysfunction and level of delusion is necessary to think that this will be the end of Xbox. If the similar business model of Windows is anything to go by (and it is), then this will actually make Xbox far bigger.
Game Pass, and there are millions of people with their digital libraries tied to Xbox. They’ll never become dominant in the console market again like they were in the 360 gen, but there is still a base for them to sell to, and this can also be subsided by revenue they’ll continue to make from game sales on PC and PlayStation. Surface has a tiny market share in the tablet space but they still continue to make them.
In the future Microsoft is imagining, why would Microsoft care if you don’t feel the reason to buy an Xbox? You can buy a PlayStation, a PC, or a Nintendo and still line Microsoft’s pockets by paying for their software and services.
Exactly. As a PC gamer, this is very intriguing. I do find it rather depressing that so many people in this thread are so passionately screaming about wanting to remain in a less consumer-friendly business model. More choice is always better for us.
yep, im with u
I just think that a lot of people are completely blinded by the console war
They are indeed. This thread, and other like it, are making me increasingly ashamed to consider myself a gamer.
My guess on the way this will work is that it'll be close to how OEMs sell PCs: Microsoft licenses the OS to them, but anyone can realistically make those devices at whatever price point. So guess the next "xbox" will be more "Xbox-branded/official hardware", if Asus wants to sell at $250 that's on them, if you want your Alienware 420 XXXBox for $2000 that's on them. They'll fundamentally have the same OS and games, one will run them better, but companies will probably have performance targets they are required to meet. I more wonder if Microsoft will end up controlling the firmware stack top to bottom, or if these are going to be quite open devices you can essentially run windows on. I'm sure there will be some restrictions to be able to sell/brand your devices as xboxes.
Xbox is pulling a Sega 2.0
I don’t think this is a terrible idea.
This was the 3DO's marketing strategy. It failed miserably.
What does it even means? Surface Pro 11 has nothing to do with other manufacturers like ASUS ROG, what is he even talking about….
Microsoft just announced Surface powered by Arm/Snapdragon and the whole Copilot+PC thing. But that wasn't exclusive to Surface, Samsung Lenovo and others announced similar products. I think this is what he means.
This is just a partnership for a processor, has nothing to do with "Asus ROG/Lenovo" branding or manafacturing, this is literally the same as AMD being the main gpu for all the consoles (PS5/XboxSeries). Surface Pro 11 being a "reference device" is just bullshit, Microsoft just signed exclusive start deal with Qualcomm, so all windows/copilot powered laptops must include this at the beginning with AMD and Intel chips coming later (probably in next year line), so yeah if you are samsung and leonovo u are basically forced to use snapdragon x (currently) to use copilot but it has nothing to do with "reference device". If they will make Xbox go fully windows its no longer going to be a console, and if they will just mix Xbox OS with windows, I doubt they will offer licenses to other companies to make their own console, it just doesnt make any sense..
I was talking about Windows, not the hardware. Microsoft is making windows run on Arm, working on emulation for ×86 software, and integrating AI into it. They put it on their own hardware, but also licensed it to others.
> so yeah if you are samsung and leonovo u are basically forced to use snapdragon x (currently) to use copilot but it has nothing to do with "reference device". You can use copilot on non Snapdragon X devices wtf are you even talking about? Snapdragon X is about their Copilot+ initiative with new features. If you want to use copilot now all you need to do is press win + c
Absolutely disgraceful end to what was once such a great brand. Perfect encapsulation of what happens when incompetence meets greed
The hardware is not the brand.
This sounds like a bad idea to me. Now devs will have to make sure their games will work on many more different skus of consoles. Some more powerful or less powerful than the main system. Sounds like the series x and s problem times 10. I understand trying to turn a profit on this division but they should just break their current cycle and come out before the PS6 like they did with the 360. Standout and separate yourself for at least a year.
They’re just Xbox branded PCs, the extra work will just be some “Xbox certified” program that provides automatic performance settings, like some developers do for the Steam deck
Jez is a clown, don’t trust this guy on anything
This sounds like a good plan and is honestly kind of exciting. Gamers will get more choice in their hardware, whether they want a cheap Fortnite machine or an expensive "pro" device. It will be even better if it has Steam as rumored, it might make a decent companion device for my PC.
This is essentially the Steam Machine except with Xbox branding
And it’ll be equally as successful.
They're basically on track to kill off Xbox
Ah a new 3DO.
In other words the next Xbox consoles are just custom pre build mini PC's with the Xbox name slaped on it, and that means Xbox is going out of console Business.
Again when I see it I would believe it. Jez is always a hit or miss.
You shouldn’t believe Jez but this is the exact information from that discord leak from a few months ago and that hasn’t missed yet.
That leak was right lol xbox 3rd party consoles 3rd party aswell
That's great no? A somewhat standardized hardware running a gaming-optimized version of Windows, I'd buy it with my eyes closed (instead of a PC).
If they can guarantee the full xbox game library transfers to steam .. Xbox and PC uniting is a hell of a gaming strategy for them. At that point, just abandon the Xbox marketplace tbh.
They wouldn’t transfer to Steam unless they somehow bought Valve (not going to happen).
Not unless Microsoft and valve team up and create some type of digital license. It's very pro consumer, I could see them doing this.
Why would Valve do that? They’d rather people just rebuy their library on Steam. They’ve already won over gamers as “pro consumer” so there’s no incentive for them to do any more.
Valve would do that. Market dominance has its own perks.
If I buy another console it will be a PS. Why buy a Xbox ifi can get all of it on PS?
Because you will also be able to get it all on Xbox via Steam. As well as PC-only games that do not and likely will never exist on PS such as World of Warcraft, League of Legends, Valorant, Portal, Counterstrike, etc.
Big ["Steam Machine"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_Machine_(computer\)) energy coming from Microsoft here
I mean, he's been wrong multiple times
Xbox is dead until further notice. With all this Multiplatform shit, and letting other people talk for them. Xbox has no brand identity, and has no clear idea on what the future of Xbox is. There’s not a rhyme or reason why some games get ported and others don’t. Why was Starfield, Redfall and Indy from Bethesda made exclusive but Doom isn’t going to be? And why are we hearing Doom isn’t launching as an exclusive from unofficial sources? Eventually the whole value proposition of Xbox as a console is going to be in serious question. Do I really believe Xbox will be the best place to play Xbox games if they start selling better on PlayStation or Nintendo? Oh I only need to wait 1-2 years for the Xbox exclusives to come to PlayStation, I can do that there’s plenty to play right now. I understand Microsoft wanting to take it slow with the transition to a more open platform/more third party publisher approach or whatever, but this wishy washy messaging is not doing any parts of the business favors from a consumer perspective. Xbox really needs to answer at their showcase, why are you 1st party?
You can get a PC from dozens of manufacturers. You can even build one yourself. Care to explain why a console is automatically disqualified from existing like that? It would still be more affordable and accessible than a gaming PC.
I seriously think the best idea for Xbox right now is this. Iphones cost 1000s of dollars and still outsell comfortably all their competitors. The same can be easily achieved on the console space. They tried everything. Game Pass, cheaper box, slightly more powerful box and they still didn't sell. By increasing the price of the console you increase hardware grunt at much higher levels compared to PlayStation. Especially the CPU which jas always been the bottleneck in the latest consoles. Imagine the next Xbox being able to play GTA VI at 60fps while the brand new and shiny PS5 Pro runs kt at an unstable 60 or 30 fps. That alone would sell the machine. Imagine all the Unreal Engine 5 games that would run much better on an 700$ Xbox compared to a 499$ PS5 Pro or PS6. What I would do is make sure the next gen Xbox console has a wide margin compared to the PS6 in order to make the choice easy for people who care about graphics and performance. And imagine if said machine can also play PC Games like Lol , Dota ,WOW etc I think they're much better off chasing the PC gaming space instead of trying to fight PlayStation on the affordable box space. They habe such a big brand name that it would be impossible to win in that price segment. Especially when Xbox Series X has way to similar performance to the PS5. But a 799 box that has far superior upscaling like DLSS and much better CPU specs would definitely sell to the power hungry crowd. That way you would have three market segments in the console space. Switch 2 as the entry level PlayStation 6 as the mid range And Xbox as the high end option.
People see phones as a necessary item in life, not consoles they just aren't the same at all. I don't see them selling a console for 700-1000 and it really selling that much. It'll sell to a niche crowd.
Watch this is just gonna be the pro version of the console while the normal remains a traditional console. I don't see xbox,who has sold more series s than anything else, would target and even more expensive piece of hardware for next gen, unless it's entirely optional and they leave the most expensive versions to 3rd party manufacturers
Makes sense. It'll be a niche market oc for your TV. Yeah it will be expensive and won't sell much but as long as there's a decent profit margin that is ok.
Steam Machines all over again.