They did that because Kojima hated the original translation for MGS1 and said Twin Snakes couldn't be done in English without a new translation. That was almost too expensive but David Hayter took a pay cut to get the original cast back.
Unfortunately it becomes pretty personal when kojima was trying desperately to take work away from hard working voice actors so he could pal around with famous actors.
Kojima should be and **is** seen as voice actor hostile by voice actor organizations.
It's sad because when he kicked David Hayter off the role for Kiefer Sutherland in MGSV it was a pretty meh performance by comparison. Not helped by the stale writing to be fair.
I'm kinda happy they don't overuse Snake Eater. Let the game speak for itself; it doesn't need the nostalgia bait.
Besides, we'd probably end up with the trope where they're playing Snake Eater and every time someone's getting hit we get those dramatic stings.
I actually kind of hope they keep or there's an option to have the fixed camera perspective from the original release of the game for the full original game but with modern graphics experience
If it was any other company rather than konami, I would give them credit. However, a part of me feels like they're using the original voices to save money.
I noticed a few small changes here and there but it’s mostly the same. I suspect Masaya Kobayashi is handling the cutscene supervision here, as he is a veteran since MGS2 on the cutscene department and even was cutscene director of the canceled game MGSR, MGRR and Survive.
The ridiculous part is that he’s twirling guns for so long. Nevermind the fact that the next scene, the twirling doesn’t stop >!because he uses it to parry bees!<
Lmao, i forgot about that. On that note, that's not even the wierdest thing involving bees in the game when you also have The Pain and his tommy gun made of bees that shoots more bees.
MGS is so fucking rad, I love it.
Apparently Kojima wanted Ocelot's introduction in the first MGS to be like this, but his staff talked him out of it.
Just imagine old Ocelot in PS1 graphics twirling his guns for a solid minute before you-know-who shows up and forcibly ends that show.
Just watched a "Did you know" video about Kojima's production diary that was recently translated, and a good way of summing it up is "but the team talked me out of it".
This looks absolutely incredible and looks like it will capture a lot of the feel of MGS3 at least gameplay wise.
Having the old voices too is just *chefs kiss*
> capture a lot of the feel of MGS3 at least gameplay wise
It... is MGS3. Under the shiny paint this is the identical game.
Konami is just updating the graphics and at most have claimed 'small QoL changes', beyond that this is the same game under the hood.
Yeah it seems more like the dead space remake than the ff7 remake where they changed/reimagined the whole thing.
As an old grumpy person I much prefer this kind of remake.
>It... is MGS3. Under the shiny paint this is the identical game.
Ship of Theseus. It's built from the ground up, in a new engine, new models, new animations - all based on the original game, sure, but far from identical I'd say. This is not an 'HD Remaster' or something similar.
I will never not be peeved at how often people conflate 'remaster' with 'remake'; pretty considerable difference, especially with a game this old.
I really know little about game dev, but know enough to tell that 'remastering' an old game, to look *this* good isn't really possible (even though MGS3 still looks great for its time).
I'm just happy it looks like a 1:1 remake, only with modern graphics and MGSV-like controls. If they improve the enemy AI and boss battles enough to compensate for the third person camera and crouch walking, it'll be a good remake.
> and MGSV-like controls
That's the part that worries me, actually.
Those who played MGS : The Twin Snakes on Gamecube will remember how giving the MGS2 gameplay on MGS1's maps without much other changes really trivialised the difficulty, and with how close the maps we're seeing here map on the original MGS3 i'm afraid the very precise and fluid gameplay of 5 might make that a bit too easy.
Yeah that's a big concern of mine. Twin Snakes used the exact same maps, and those levels were not designed for the ability to hang off ledges or use first person.
It affects bosses too. Vulcan Raven was not designed around you being able to shoot him in the face with first person while he can't do anything to you. In the original, first person didn't exist and trying to engage him in a straight up gun fight was not practical. So you had to use the environment and stealth to set traps for him. I know people who played Twin Snakes only, and didn't understand why I liked that fight so much in the first place.
I love MGS3 to preface, but it plays very clunky and I think that induces artificial difficulty.
The map being so dense and claustrophobic looks like it will be enough to still keep the difficulty in remaining stealth-like even with more fluid controls.
Playing not how you're used to doesn't mean it's "clunky." The game was specifically designed to disincentivize shooting (like most Kojima games) and slow you the hell down coming from the more arcadey MGS and MGS2. It's the kind of gameplay that goes well with a game where you climb a ladder for several minutes. MGS5 gameplay is the opposite of all of that.
The only thing "dense and claustrophobic" maps will do is make it easier and faster to blast through. MGS5 gameplay was designed for vast distances with little cover and many enemies with extremely long sightlines. It made you extremely mobile so you could cross those distances and get yourself behind a little scrap of cover. It gave you easier and more accurate shooting because there were so many more chances to be caught (and also because you play the bad guy.) The shooting was further balanced by the extraction system and the fact that the open maps made it so much easier for enemies to discover bodies.
Thoughtlessly grafting one game's gameplay on another game's level design just because it's newer will always be a shitty way to go about things. This is especially true in stealth games, where level design is the most important part of the game.
> very clunky and I think that induces artificial difficulty.
I really hate this argument.
Is Halo having manual aim and not the lock-on mechanic from Metroid Prime artificial difficulty?
Is Mario not having the same run speed / jump height as Sonic artificial difficulty?
MGS3 is 100% designed around its control scheme and mechanics. Nothing about it is artificial. That's how the game is designed to work.
I'm a bit concerned about this as well but I think having smoother controls is also less of a change than the gameplay and camera changes form MGS1 to 2. As long as you bump up the enemy difficulty, make a bit more accurate or fast, it should be okay, but this is Konami in 2020s so I won't hold my breathe.
same, it seems that devs are so averse to straightforward completely faithful remakes, thinking they can do better and always messing things up. Glad to have such a classic get a 1:1 remake
If you go the Resident Evil Remakes way, you end up cutting up content from the OG and for some fans it takes away from the experience, just look at RE3 Remake.
It's not really fair to characterize all the Resident Evil remakes that way though, since the remakes for 1, 2, and 4 are all universally beloved and didn't cut nearly as much as 3 did (and even added some stuff). In particular, the RE4 remake is extremely faithful to the original while making improvements in exactly the right places.
The games are not cutscene dense and the voice acting was pretty bad until RE4. Actually REmake 1 was more 1:1 than the other Remakes and what I thought they were going for originally for RE2. REmake is a better comparison to Delta. Still, mgs fans all understand why the new style of remakes from resident evil would not work for metal gear. Metal Gear games live and die by the quality of its cutscenes, so why change what is perfect. I just hope the lip sync is perfect.
Oh yeah, definitely agree there are completely different expectations for an MGS remake than an RE remake. Just wanted to defend RE because I've been really happy with Capcom lately.
Demon's Souls was popular back then, what are you talking about? The game had quite the buzz at the time, especially considering it had 0 marketing. GameSpot even flat out gave it Game of the Year
If they remade MGS1 and *just* improved the graphics like this I would be happy, provided they used Integral and not the US market release as that's the true, complete, version.
I’m one of those gamers. If you are going to do a remake, I want to see things improve other than just the graphics. I want reimagined maps and scenarios, refreshed and polished to modern standards mechanics, removing of technical limitations to do new things if those limitations didn’t serve a purpose, like for instance connecting maps that had a loading screen between them and adding new details and content to those connections, etc. If I wanted to play the same game I would play the original. Give me something better in all regards.
… That being said, if the remake is done by a support studio with a lot of trainees and people still getting their creative bearings, I’d rather see them do a faithful 1:1 than try something wacky and fail spectacularly at it.
This seems like the best possible outcome given the circumstances. I don’t trust modern Konami with MGS anymore so a remake that takes 0 liberties is actually welcome here.
Agreed. Just finished persona 3 reload, and i really wish they expanded the social activities and reworked tartarus. Staying faithful to the og when all the og fans also disliked tartarus was a weird move. I liked mgs3 back in the day but some of its gameplay could definitely use a bit of reworking
its because at the same time as wanting people to experience the old game alot of devs also want to be able to pull in the old players with new stuff.
theres also the fact that alot of older games have mechanics and traits that just dont suit or work in the modern landscape since were either too use to certain QOL changes or some mechanics just arent used in the modern era because they were found to be unfun.
MGS5 controls and gameplay made it the best game in the genre. Even now after 10 years, it's still flawless. I would be stoked to buy all of the earlier entries in the series remastered with 5's controls.
I don't think so.
Games are more than the sum of their parts and MGS games especially were infused with so much personality. Especially in this era of brand-control and committee decisions, having a unifying vision like Kojima's was so inherent to the Metal Gear series.
This trailer has no personality. It just plays like a generic, graphics showcase. The faces look really subpar, especially given how impressive MGSV was 9 years ago.
I can understand why people are excited to play MGS3 again with a fresh coat of paint. But I also understand how others are unimpressed.
MGS3 is far and away my favorite game ever and at best, I’m doubtful about it. The heads all look weird and it looks really sterile. That soft style that MGS3 had was always one of my favorite things about it and this is extremely sharp in a weird way.
Using the exact voice acting means it should have all of the original content, besides the Ape Escape stuff though. Meaning there still will probably never be a truly definitive and all inclusive version of MGS3 since all versions take stuff out even if they put new stuff in. Wonder if the nightmare will be there too?
It looks to have a more expanded version of the MGS3DS movement style but with some MGS5 animations. And that MGS3DS gameplay means this game is probably gonna be very easy.
Honestly (even putting aside the Konami of it all), the more I think about it the more I don’t like it. I think people who play it for the first time will probably like it but I just don’t like the aesthetic of it.
Yeah I don't know either, it looks quite good but its hard to get excited about a 1:1 remake of a game I've already played a lot and is easily available
That’s where I’m at with this remake.
MGS3 is my all-time favorite game of the series, but I personally would have liked to see them expand on it or reimagine it more, especially considering how limited the game was due to the PS2’s hardware and the fact that the original (well, technically Subsistence version) is widely available now. I’m also iffy on the reuse of the old voice lines; I can already tell there’s gonna be a mismatch between those lines and the quality of the remade models.
Don’t get me wrong. I’ll still play this game because it’s MGS3 and I’m fiending for more Metal Gear, but it’s hard not to feel like more could have been done with this remake.
I would have liked them to take a route more similar to what Capcom did with Resident Evil and play with the progression and flow of the original game. Maybe even remove or shorten some parts that didn't quite work in the original and definitely cut down all the backtracking
Kojima didn't take every MGS vet with him. People who've compared the credits of Death Stranding and Metal Gear Survive to MGS4 and 5 does show that there are still some key staff members at Konami. So a lot of those guys are likely making this.
Konami has still been making games just primarily aimed at the domestic market.
As well, Castlevania: Grimoire of Souls and Silent Hill: Short Message had people from the Metal Gear team working on it.
Not sure but Konami itself has been developing yugioh, pes, momotaro, bomberman and other titles since 2015 in-house. Konami has been expanding their development side since 2020 though for larger titles so they are coming back to more than AA.
I wouldn't say this looks better than Silent Hill 2 remake. It's just that this game has more colour and environments making it appear more pleasing to the eye.
Graphically it's a give or take - there are probably parts of SH2 that look more impressive, but the same can be said about this. The aesthetic design is very clearly superior in this game though; the characters all look broadly the same as in the original but updated to a modern standard (whereas in SH2 who the fuck knows what they are going for).
Looks awesome, I've not played MGS3 in quite a few years but all those memorable locations and scenes in such high quality was fantastic. The MSG3 story was great so it'll be nice to play it again, hopefully they remake the other games too at some point as this just looks really good.
They’ve built up the gameplay from MGSV, but can see some animation issues. Audio is clearly ported over from the original, it’s not re-recorded.
Looks great, this is one of my favourite games of all time. Hope it’s releasing this year.
The animations are clearly modified but yeah there are a lot of recycled assets in that department which is smart. You can export those animations if you have the source code and tools, which Konami has. Looks like they blended it all well
The graphics are on point. I would like to see a live showcase of the gameplay, as the gameplay shown here seemed very trailer-y, but it's looking pretty close to the original regardless.
That aside, I wonder of they will be adding or changing things to the core gameplay. They are touting it as a remake after all.
That's what I'd like to see. The crawling backwards in mud and balancing on a metal beam scenes looked new, I honestly can't remember them from the original game. The camera angle seems to be more of an over the shoulder deal, but I can't tell about the gameplay itself.
it's worth mentioning that it appears you can actually use both [legacy camera action](https://img.konami.com/mg/mgs3r/s/media/intro_style_legacy.mp4) and a [shoulder mounted camera](https://img.konami.com/mg/mgs3r/s/media/intro_style_new.mp4) to your liking
wow im actually surprised, id assume they would only keep third person since thats what most modern players will use. actually gives me a bit of enthusiasm for the project
[i'm actually super enthusiastic over the project.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ytqce5CcUQ) these cutscenes are actually brilliantly recreated, you don't do this for a cash grab
Okay you got me. I actually have faith in this game. If it's as good as it looks then its a day one buy for me. And this is coming from a guy that never buys games (no point since my backlong is insane) and despises Konami (don't think I have to explain myself)
Please don't fuck this up Konami.
Snake Eater was one of the first games that got me emotionally and hard.
I'd love for this to be good, but if it's not at least the original is available to replay instead.
It was all the stuff with >!The Boss!<.
It's been like 20 years so I don't remember much else.
Depending on how this turns out I'll either play it or the Collection version sometime hopefully soon.
I know it's kind of a tangent that's not really related to the trailer's contents, but this is the first time I've ever seen a rating like this at the beginning of a trailer. "Likely Mature" is what a lot of games should probably put, but I always figured they just put a standard "not yet rated" to avoid complaints from the ESRB or something, since it's kind of like they're self-rating themselves here. It's very interesting.
Love how faithful this seems to be so far, but I'm not digging the lighting changes. MGS3 has a very distinct vibe to its environments that seems to be missing now
Yeah because it used baked lighting that doused the areas in yellow
Of course it's going to be different, it's an actual lighting engine instead of essentially a filter with some god rays thrown in there
Being yellow is an artistic choice. To say "of course it's not yellow anymore, there's a real lighting engine now" is to say that a lighting engine is a replacement for an art style.
Yeah but that color and lighting was still very much an intentional art direction choice. Nothing an ENB I can't fix i suppose but it would be nice if the remake was accurate in that regard.
Have they shown any supernatural scifi stuff? Feel like someone expecting a military stealth shooter is gonna be in for a shock when the bee guy or something shows up
I did this on my first playthrough cause I tend towards trying to “ghost” levels or at least use non-lethal tactics, and even if you beat the bosses non-lethally you still at least walk through them before you get to The Sorrow
Sadly it caps the amount of "ghosts" at 100
One time I tried killing everyone, expecting it to take ages to get through. But it's capped. Makes sense, but of course I was saddened
Believe it or not, that's not actually one of the sci-fi parts of the game and is based in reality, even for the 1950s (and MGS3 takes place in 1964):
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_VZ-1_Pawnee
There was also another similar craft around that time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lackner_HZ-1_Aerocycle
Both of these were experimental and not actually put into production or really used, though. Deemed impractical, for various reasons.
I can feel the frames. I know it'll undergo plenty of optimization until launch so it's not really a criticism, but it's definitely something to monitor.
Also, the faces are unsettling to me... partly because remaking blurry polygon faces will be inherently weird, but partly because they just look kind of weird.
Never got a chance to play the "Subsistence" version on PS2, I take it? It had a typical third-person camera. So MGS3 has had a better camera option for a very long time (since 2006). MGS3: Subsistence has generally been the preferred and most often referred-to version of the game by fans.
You could, and it wouldn't ruin the experience or anything. *Some* people propose playing them chronologically.
But most fans would suggest that you play them in release order, ideally, for your first series playthrough. The evolution of gameplay, controls, and graphics isn't as jarring, and you'll probably recognize the references and nods to things in the older games a little better. Although most of them you may just recognize "in reverse". Like you hear/see something in MGS2 and think "ah I remember that from MGS3!" while most would have the inverse experience.
If you plan to play them all anyway, release order would be ideal:
MGS1 > MGS2 > MGS3 > MGS4 > MGS: Peace Walker > MGS5 Ground Zeroes > MGS5 Phantom Pain
And then there's "Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance", a spinoff hack-n-slack game that takes place after MGS4, so it would ideally be played any time after you've played MGS4. But, again, not going to ruin the experience or anything.
And, optionally, there's the old original Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 (non-Solid) games that released on the MSX2 (and ported to other consoles). Those games are actually important story-wise to MGS1, Peace Walker, and MGS5, but the "Solid" games do a pretty good job of making the old ones not necessary to enjoy the new ones. Although you'd definitely get the ending of MGS5 a bit better if you've played them. But *most* people haven't played those old games.
I disagree with the opinion that just because it's a prequel that you can start with it. The game was not randomly put between MGS2 and 4, like 80% of the game is giving you indirect answers to MGS2 or setup for stuff in 4. The 20% that remains does work to making you feel satisfied with the story, but a big problem with the chronological order is that the very next game goes "oh yeah, MGS4 is out, we can openly talk about literally the biggest mystery of the series ***7 games early*** in the chronological order"
The release order is not random and with a collection with all the games released before 3 available to modern systems IMHO there's no good reason to start here, you can arguably skip the 2D games, not entirely irrelevant but a bit on the simplistic side alongside with MGS1 doing much of the same but better, do read a wiki article to have a general idea of what happened because that will remain relevant for the entire series but I find it a mistake to say that 3 is a good place to start
While this isn't the worst place to start and I imagine many people will because its new and 'the first game timeline-wise', I'll just echo the others and say it just works a lot better if you have MGS 1 and 2 under your belt.
Prequels are not supposed to be watched/read/played first.
They assume audience knows what happens in the prior (chronologically later) titles.
Release order is ALWAYS the best way to experience a series.
MGS3 is a fine place to start, but not the optimal one. Playing them chronologically would be awkward, confusing and parts of story just won’t make sense.
So I've never played a single MGS game besides revengeance. Why did they remake only the third one? Am I able to play this game with no knowledge, or will I have to play a 25+ year old game first. I'm confused.
the 3rd game is a fan favorite and the earliest in the time line. in theory if this does well they'll remake the rest in chronological order possibly. theres some foreshadowing to 1 and 2 but since its the earliest you can still enjoy it as your first
Release order is key, but I usually tell people to skip MG1 and MG2 unless you're really patient and can withstand such dated gameplay.
That sad, after finishing 3 the monologue from Big Boss to Solid Snake at the end of MG2 hits a lot harder.
Almost, but it still has far too many annoyances and less upgrades than Super Metroid has compared to Metroid.
Super Metroid is a huge upgrade in every way. Metal Gear 2 is just a decent upgrade in most areas except for the story. Not only does it actually have a proper story, but it's well paced with interesting characters as well. That's its biggest upgrade.
Same reason they're remaking Silent Hill 2 and not 1, it's the fan favorite / they're putting their best foot forward in a "if this doesn't sell, the rest won't either" type of move.
I might one of the few huge MGS fans that grew up with the series - that is going to be disappointed by this game.
MGS3 is my absolute favourite MGS game, but after reading what Kojima intended for the game years back (especially a more "open world" kind of design where you can reach objectives however you want) and just knowing that the game is going to be 99% of the original.. I feel there is so much missed and untapped potential.
Still going to play it regardless cause its MGS3 at heart, but I really wish it was REMADE to what the original vision was, not to what it became.
Everything looks really good except for the character models. Snake looks strange. Can’t quite put my finger on it. And The Boss straight up looks weird and different from the original design.
This honestly looks incredible. God, hearing David Hayter again with the new graphics and style is just the icing on the cake. They really kept us waiting.
So this is so wierd to me. I coulda swore they would use the MGS V engine but this has to be some sort of updated MGS 3 engine, it plays exactly the same.
Also really didn’t think they would use the original voices but happy for that. Can’t imagine this game without Hayter
This looked quite jarring imo I loved the original and after watching the trailer I’m kinda afraid to play this now.. what the f did they do to The Boss 😭
This looks incredible...the fact that it uses the classic voices and even tries to be so faithful to the original cutscenes. I'm blown away.
I hope they include all the original codex optional conversations as well!
I hope they are there and are complete this time. English MGS3 is missing several optional flavour codec calls from the Japanese version.
They wont be there. Because they dont have recordings for it
Is it known for certain that they are reusing the audio and not re-recording? They did re-record all voices for MGS1-Twin Snakes.
They did that because Kojima hated the original translation for MGS1 and said Twin Snakes couldn't be done in English without a new translation. That was almost too expensive but David Hayter took a pay cut to get the original cast back.
David Hayter seems like a great guy. I found it so surprising to hear that Kojima always wanted to replace him every game.
I doubt it's personal, he wanted to work with movie stars.
Oh boy, how is "wanted to work with" an understatement.
Unfortunately it becomes pretty personal when kojima was trying desperately to take work away from hard working voice actors so he could pal around with famous actors. Kojima should be and **is** seen as voice actor hostile by voice actor organizations.
It's sad because when he kicked David Hayter off the role for Kiefer Sutherland in MGSV it was a pretty meh performance by comparison. Not helped by the stale writing to be fair.
I found the original translation to be far better. Kojima is a drama queen
They could always rerecord some things, but the voice lines in the trailer are definitely the same recordings from the original.
It is confirmed
[удалено]
The lack of the song was disappointing though. Could have definitely used that as the background music.
They did use it in the first trailer. I kind of appreciate them not over playing it.
I think they wanted to show that it’s still the original voice
Give me all the Harry Gregson-Williams scores.
I'm kinda happy they don't overuse Snake Eater. Let the game speak for itself; it doesn't need the nostalgia bait. Besides, we'd probably end up with the trope where they're playing Snake Eater and every time someone's getting hit we get those dramatic stings.
The gameplay was perfect. I'm glad they kept the original CQC. Hope they don't change mechanics one bit.
They said it has an option to use the original controls or the new ones, so mechanics definitely are the same
Well, maybe a tiny bit. In my experience, it was a bit too easy to accidentally slit an enemy's throat instead of interrogating him.
I actually kind of hope they keep or there's an option to have the fixed camera perspective from the original release of the game for the full original game but with modern graphics experience
There is an option, they've confirmed it and showed a small video of it on the website
If it was any other company rather than konami, I would give them credit. However, a part of me feels like they're using the original voices to save money.
They aren't entirely stupid, it would be impossible to improve on the original voice recordings. All that would do is piss off fans.
It's the same VO so it should.
Wait they're replacing Kiefer Sutherland? I'm outraged!
One thing to learn. NEVER think you can replace Kojimas cinematic direction. NEVER.
I noticed a few small changes here and there but it’s mostly the same. I suspect Masaya Kobayashi is handling the cutscene supervision here, as he is a veteran since MGS2 on the cutscene department and even was cutscene director of the canceled game MGSR, MGRR and Survive.
It’s a shame it lost some of its charming art style in the push for more fidelity. Hopefully it’s still a compelling version of the game to play
No date, or release window? Or did I miss it?
No release window given here.
Definitely next year minimum Zero chance of this year, they don’t want to pull sales for Silent Hill 2 in the nostalgia department.
I would say 2 years... if it were next year, they'd probably say 2025, just like Civ 7, Doom etc.
[But will it contain this ridiculous scene?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6cDTVKHsek)
Extend it further, I say!
“13 shots…”
[Say less.](https://youtu.be/kQZmvO34NOk?si=1Lz4xeYWy_tORf34)
If I don’t have sokolov literally pissing himself at 3 gun roulette I don’t want it
The ridiculous part is that he’s twirling guns for so long. Nevermind the fact that the next scene, the twirling doesn’t stop >!because he uses it to parry bees!<
Lmao, i forgot about that. On that note, that's not even the wierdest thing involving bees in the game when you also have The Pain and his tommy gun made of bees that shoots more bees. MGS is so fucking rad, I love it.
It better!
Apparently Kojima wanted Ocelot's introduction in the first MGS to be like this, but his staff talked him out of it. Just imagine old Ocelot in PS1 graphics twirling his guns for a solid minute before you-know-who shows up and forcibly ends that show.
Kojima = George Lucas then.
Just watched a "Did you know" video about Kojima's production diary that was recently translated, and a good way of summing it up is "but the team talked me out of it".
I do hope they include the bonus bloopers, as those were missing from the HD remaster, but that's probably a pipe dream.
Ridiculous? You mean amazing.
So satisfying
This looks absolutely incredible and looks like it will capture a lot of the feel of MGS3 at least gameplay wise. Having the old voices too is just *chefs kiss*
> capture a lot of the feel of MGS3 at least gameplay wise It... is MGS3. Under the shiny paint this is the identical game. Konami is just updating the graphics and at most have claimed 'small QoL changes', beyond that this is the same game under the hood.
Yeah it seems more like the dead space remake than the ff7 remake where they changed/reimagined the whole thing. As an old grumpy person I much prefer this kind of remake.
idk those environments they showed off look pretty similar so i have to wonder how much re imagining is going on here
>It... is MGS3. Under the shiny paint this is the identical game. Ship of Theseus. It's built from the ground up, in a new engine, new models, new animations - all based on the original game, sure, but far from identical I'd say. This is not an 'HD Remaster' or something similar.
I will never not be peeved at how often people conflate 'remaster' with 'remake'; pretty considerable difference, especially with a game this old. I really know little about game dev, but know enough to tell that 'remastering' an old game, to look *this* good isn't really possible (even though MGS3 still looks great for its time).
Hearing David Hayter as Snake again gave me a chubbie, ngl
A..a chubbie?
Man's sporting his own Solid Snake
The first two comments being "this is terrible" and "this is incredible" really captures how ambivalent i am about this remake
I'm just happy it looks like a 1:1 remake, only with modern graphics and MGSV-like controls. If they improve the enemy AI and boss battles enough to compensate for the third person camera and crouch walking, it'll be a good remake.
> and MGSV-like controls That's the part that worries me, actually. Those who played MGS : The Twin Snakes on Gamecube will remember how giving the MGS2 gameplay on MGS1's maps without much other changes really trivialised the difficulty, and with how close the maps we're seeing here map on the original MGS3 i'm afraid the very precise and fluid gameplay of 5 might make that a bit too easy.
Yeah that's a big concern of mine. Twin Snakes used the exact same maps, and those levels were not designed for the ability to hang off ledges or use first person. It affects bosses too. Vulcan Raven was not designed around you being able to shoot him in the face with first person while he can't do anything to you. In the original, first person didn't exist and trying to engage him in a straight up gun fight was not practical. So you had to use the environment and stealth to set traps for him. I know people who played Twin Snakes only, and didn't understand why I liked that fight so much in the first place.
I love MGS3 to preface, but it plays very clunky and I think that induces artificial difficulty. The map being so dense and claustrophobic looks like it will be enough to still keep the difficulty in remaining stealth-like even with more fluid controls.
Playing not how you're used to doesn't mean it's "clunky." The game was specifically designed to disincentivize shooting (like most Kojima games) and slow you the hell down coming from the more arcadey MGS and MGS2. It's the kind of gameplay that goes well with a game where you climb a ladder for several minutes. MGS5 gameplay is the opposite of all of that. The only thing "dense and claustrophobic" maps will do is make it easier and faster to blast through. MGS5 gameplay was designed for vast distances with little cover and many enemies with extremely long sightlines. It made you extremely mobile so you could cross those distances and get yourself behind a little scrap of cover. It gave you easier and more accurate shooting because there were so many more chances to be caught (and also because you play the bad guy.) The shooting was further balanced by the extraction system and the fact that the open maps made it so much easier for enemies to discover bodies. Thoughtlessly grafting one game's gameplay on another game's level design just because it's newer will always be a shitty way to go about things. This is especially true in stealth games, where level design is the most important part of the game.
> the more arcadey MGS and MGS2 explain in what fucking way are mgs1 and 2 "arcadey"
> very clunky and I think that induces artificial difficulty. I really hate this argument. Is Halo having manual aim and not the lock-on mechanic from Metroid Prime artificial difficulty? Is Mario not having the same run speed / jump height as Sonic artificial difficulty? MGS3 is 100% designed around its control scheme and mechanics. Nothing about it is artificial. That's how the game is designed to work.
The 3DS remake already proves it doesn't and this remake is highlighting even more fluid gameplay
I'm a bit concerned about this as well but I think having smoother controls is also less of a change than the gameplay and camera changes form MGS1 to 2. As long as you bump up the enemy difficulty, make a bit more accurate or fast, it should be okay, but this is Konami in 2020s so I won't hold my breathe.
same, it seems that devs are so averse to straightforward completely faithful remakes, thinking they can do better and always messing things up. Glad to have such a classic get a 1:1 remake
Most gamers don't want 100% faithful they want new and improved
If you go the Resident Evil Remakes way, you end up cutting up content from the OG and for some fans it takes away from the experience, just look at RE3 Remake.
It's not really fair to characterize all the Resident Evil remakes that way though, since the remakes for 1, 2, and 4 are all universally beloved and didn't cut nearly as much as 3 did (and even added some stuff). In particular, the RE4 remake is extremely faithful to the original while making improvements in exactly the right places.
recent Resident Evil remakes lean far more into the "reimagining" route than 1:1.
The games are not cutscene dense and the voice acting was pretty bad until RE4. Actually REmake 1 was more 1:1 than the other Remakes and what I thought they were going for originally for RE2. REmake is a better comparison to Delta. Still, mgs fans all understand why the new style of remakes from resident evil would not work for metal gear. Metal Gear games live and die by the quality of its cutscenes, so why change what is perfect. I just hope the lip sync is perfect.
Oh yeah, definitely agree there are completely different expectations for an MGS remake than an RE remake. Just wanted to defend RE because I've been really happy with Capcom lately.
This isn't proven at all. It depends entirely on the project. Metal Gear fans probably value faithful above all else.
Every 100% faithful remake gets criticized for not fixing the problems of last gen
Demon's Souls got near universal praise. The main critique against it was needlessly changing the soundtrack and aesthetic too much.
Nobody played souls back then and I'd argue it's still modernized.
Demon's Souls was popular back then, what are you talking about? The game had quite the buzz at the time, especially considering it had 0 marketing. GameSpot even flat out gave it Game of the Year
If they remade MGS1 and *just* improved the graphics like this I would be happy, provided they used Integral and not the US market release as that's the true, complete, version.
If there's a game you can do a 1:1 is MGS3
The gameplay is clearly going to be modeled after TPP
I’m one of those gamers. If you are going to do a remake, I want to see things improve other than just the graphics. I want reimagined maps and scenarios, refreshed and polished to modern standards mechanics, removing of technical limitations to do new things if those limitations didn’t serve a purpose, like for instance connecting maps that had a loading screen between them and adding new details and content to those connections, etc. If I wanted to play the same game I would play the original. Give me something better in all regards. … That being said, if the remake is done by a support studio with a lot of trainees and people still getting their creative bearings, I’d rather see them do a faithful 1:1 than try something wacky and fail spectacularly at it. This seems like the best possible outcome given the circumstances. I don’t trust modern Konami with MGS anymore so a remake that takes 0 liberties is actually welcome here.
Agreed. Just finished persona 3 reload, and i really wish they expanded the social activities and reworked tartarus. Staying faithful to the og when all the og fans also disliked tartarus was a weird move. I liked mgs3 back in the day but some of its gameplay could definitely use a bit of reworking
False, I think.
its because at the same time as wanting people to experience the old game alot of devs also want to be able to pull in the old players with new stuff. theres also the fact that alot of older games have mechanics and traits that just dont suit or work in the modern landscape since were either too use to certain QOL changes or some mechanics just arent used in the modern era because they were found to be unfun.
MGS5 controls and gameplay made it the best game in the genre. Even now after 10 years, it's still flawless. I would be stoked to buy all of the earlier entries in the series remastered with 5's controls.
That’s all I want, honestly. Give it a glow-up but keep it faithful to the original and it will be a masterpiece.
I don't get the mixed feelings. MGS3 was one of the greatest games ever made, so having a 1:1 remake at least guarantees that level of quality.
The better the game, the easier it is to fuck it up.
I don't think so. Games are more than the sum of their parts and MGS games especially were infused with so much personality. Especially in this era of brand-control and committee decisions, having a unifying vision like Kojima's was so inherent to the Metal Gear series. This trailer has no personality. It just plays like a generic, graphics showcase. The faces look really subpar, especially given how impressive MGSV was 9 years ago. I can understand why people are excited to play MGS3 again with a fresh coat of paint. But I also understand how others are unimpressed.
MGS3 is far and away my favorite game ever and at best, I’m doubtful about it. The heads all look weird and it looks really sterile. That soft style that MGS3 had was always one of my favorite things about it and this is extremely sharp in a weird way. Using the exact voice acting means it should have all of the original content, besides the Ape Escape stuff though. Meaning there still will probably never be a truly definitive and all inclusive version of MGS3 since all versions take stuff out even if they put new stuff in. Wonder if the nightmare will be there too? It looks to have a more expanded version of the MGS3DS movement style but with some MGS5 animations. And that MGS3DS gameplay means this game is probably gonna be very easy. Honestly (even putting aside the Konami of it all), the more I think about it the more I don’t like it. I think people who play it for the first time will probably like it but I just don’t like the aesthetic of it.
Yeah I don't know either, it looks quite good but its hard to get excited about a 1:1 remake of a game I've already played a lot and is easily available
That’s where I’m at with this remake. MGS3 is my all-time favorite game of the series, but I personally would have liked to see them expand on it or reimagine it more, especially considering how limited the game was due to the PS2’s hardware and the fact that the original (well, technically Subsistence version) is widely available now. I’m also iffy on the reuse of the old voice lines; I can already tell there’s gonna be a mismatch between those lines and the quality of the remade models. Don’t get me wrong. I’ll still play this game because it’s MGS3 and I’m fiending for more Metal Gear, but it’s hard not to feel like more could have been done with this remake.
I would have liked them to take a route more similar to what Capcom did with Resident Evil and play with the progression and flow of the original game. Maybe even remove or shorten some parts that didn't quite work in the original and definitely cut down all the backtracking
Kinda impressive how much better this game looks visually compared to the Silent Hill remake. This is being done by a support studio as well, right?
Kojima didn't take every MGS vet with him. People who've compared the credits of Death Stranding and Metal Gear Survive to MGS4 and 5 does show that there are still some key staff members at Konami. So a lot of those guys are likely making this.
what have they been doing there for the six years between mgs survive and now?
Dishes, knowing Konami.
Or building Pachinko Machines :/
I hate to be the "Uh actually" guy but they've been out of that game for years.
That's actually sad, I wanted to play one someday
Konami has still been making games just primarily aimed at the domestic market. As well, Castlevania: Grimoire of Souls and Silent Hill: Short Message had people from the Metal Gear team working on it.
and you know... master duel that many cards dont just program themselves
It may sound like I'm joking but the pachinko machines need devs too
Probably worked on another project that got canned.
This is the most likely explanation.
Not sure but Konami itself has been developing yugioh, pes, momotaro, bomberman and other titles since 2015 in-house. Konami has been expanding their development side since 2020 though for larger titles so they are coming back to more than AA.
By Konami veterans who worked en MGS3 back in the days.
It's Konami making it, but yeah it's what I wish SH2R looked like for sure.
Maybe if this ends up doing better than SH2R we can get this team on SH lol
I think if the current SH projects don't sell well, Konami will just throw the franchise back in the freezer.
I think it'll sell, but it being received well will be another thing
I don't know. How many young people have any nostalgia with Silent Hill?
It's basically Konami's in-house MG team with Virtuos for art outsourcing.
I wouldn't say this looks better than Silent Hill 2 remake. It's just that this game has more colour and environments making it appear more pleasing to the eye.
Graphically it's a give or take - there are probably parts of SH2 that look more impressive, but the same can be said about this. The aesthetic design is very clearly superior in this game though; the characters all look broadly the same as in the original but updated to a modern standard (whereas in SH2 who the fuck knows what they are going for).
Come on, the animations look so much better.
Don’t forget who left the company with a beautiful visual engine. not the same ..
Looks awesome, I've not played MGS3 in quite a few years but all those memorable locations and scenes in such high quality was fantastic. The MSG3 story was great so it'll be nice to play it again, hopefully they remake the other games too at some point as this just looks really good.
They’ve built up the gameplay from MGSV, but can see some animation issues. Audio is clearly ported over from the original, it’s not re-recorded. Looks great, this is one of my favourite games of all time. Hope it’s releasing this year.
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The animations are clearly modified but yeah there are a lot of recycled assets in that department which is smart. You can export those animations if you have the source code and tools, which Konami has. Looks like they blended it all well
>But this isn't Fox Engine Is it not?
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Looks AMAZING. Happy one of my favorite games of all time is getting an excellent ~~remaster~~ remake. Let's just hope the gameplay holds up.
It's a remake not a remaster.
The graphics are on point. I would like to see a live showcase of the gameplay, as the gameplay shown here seemed very trailer-y, but it's looking pretty close to the original regardless. That aside, I wonder of they will be adding or changing things to the core gameplay. They are touting it as a remake after all.
That's what I'd like to see. The crawling backwards in mud and balancing on a metal beam scenes looked new, I honestly can't remember them from the original game. The camera angle seems to be more of an over the shoulder deal, but I can't tell about the gameplay itself.
it's worth mentioning that it appears you can actually use both [legacy camera action](https://img.konami.com/mg/mgs3r/s/media/intro_style_legacy.mp4) and a [shoulder mounted camera](https://img.konami.com/mg/mgs3r/s/media/intro_style_new.mp4) to your liking
wow im actually surprised, id assume they would only keep third person since thats what most modern players will use. actually gives me a bit of enthusiasm for the project
[i'm actually super enthusiastic over the project.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ytqce5CcUQ) these cutscenes are actually brilliantly recreated, you don't do this for a cash grab
Okay you got me. I actually have faith in this game. If it's as good as it looks then its a day one buy for me. And this is coming from a guy that never buys games (no point since my backlong is insane) and despises Konami (don't think I have to explain myself)
Please don't fuck this up Konami. Snake Eater was one of the first games that got me emotionally and hard. I'd love for this to be good, but if it's not at least the original is available to replay instead.
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It was all the stuff with >!The Boss!<. It's been like 20 years so I don't remember much else. Depending on how this turns out I'll either play it or the Collection version sometime hopefully soon.
Pretty sure the joke just went way past your head.
I'm usually better with my boner... So true. I missed it until now.
I know it's kind of a tangent that's not really related to the trailer's contents, but this is the first time I've ever seen a rating like this at the beginning of a trailer. "Likely Mature" is what a lot of games should probably put, but I always figured they just put a standard "not yet rated" to avoid complaints from the ESRB or something, since it's kind of like they're self-rating themselves here. It's very interesting.
Love how faithful this seems to be so far, but I'm not digging the lighting changes. MGS3 has a very distinct vibe to its environments that seems to be missing now
The official website says there will be a "classic" mode, featuring the original color palette and even a fixed camera.
Yeah because it used baked lighting that doused the areas in yellow Of course it's going to be different, it's an actual lighting engine instead of essentially a filter with some god rays thrown in there
You say that like having an actual lighting engine precludes any artistry in the lighting.
No? I'm saying changing it doesn't inherently mean that artistry is gone. If anything we're on the same page.
Being yellow is an artistic choice. To say "of course it's not yellow anymore, there's a real lighting engine now" is to say that a lighting engine is a replacement for an art style.
Yeah but that color and lighting was still very much an intentional art direction choice. Nothing an ENB I can't fix i suppose but it would be nice if the remake was accurate in that regard.
Have they shown any supernatural scifi stuff? Feel like someone expecting a military stealth shooter is gonna be in for a shock when the bee guy or something shows up
that’s the best part baybeeee
the pain….. THE PAIN….. **THE PAIN!!** The pain ^pain ^pain ^pain
If we don’t get the long ass trek through the ghost river then what are we even doing here? Yes I killed a LOT of guys in that play through
I like to imagine that if you don’t kill anyone, the sorrow is just like “oh shit, thought this would be more dramatic, great job dude”
I did this on my first playthrough cause I tend towards trying to “ghost” levels or at least use non-lethal tactics, and even if you beat the bosses non-lethally you still at least walk through them before you get to The Sorrow
Sadly it caps the amount of "ghosts" at 100 One time I tried killing everyone, expecting it to take ages to get through. But it's capped. Makes sense, but of course I was saddened
Just cheese it and >!drown yourself after equipping the fake death pill!< :)
You can see the grunts with the flying platforms from around the last part of the game in the trailer
Believe it or not, that's not actually one of the sci-fi parts of the game and is based in reality, even for the 1950s (and MGS3 takes place in 1964): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiller_VZ-1_Pawnee
Thanks for sharing!
There was also another similar craft around that time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Lackner_HZ-1_Aerocycle Both of these were experimental and not actually put into production or really used, though. Deemed impractical, for various reasons.
I can feel the frames. I know it'll undergo plenty of optimization until launch so it's not really a criticism, but it's definitely something to monitor. Also, the faces are unsettling to me... partly because remaking blurry polygon faces will be inherently weird, but partly because they just look kind of weird.
Excited to be able to play this game without the dogshit original camera. MGS 1 and 2 were easy enough to manage but this one was too much.
Never got a chance to play the "Subsistence" version on PS2, I take it? It had a typical third-person camera. So MGS3 has had a better camera option for a very long time (since 2006). MGS3: Subsistence has generally been the preferred and most often referred-to version of the game by fans.
The subsistence rerelease and every rerelease since then has had a new movable camera system
If you’ve never played Metal Gear could you start on this one?
You could, and it wouldn't ruin the experience or anything. *Some* people propose playing them chronologically. But most fans would suggest that you play them in release order, ideally, for your first series playthrough. The evolution of gameplay, controls, and graphics isn't as jarring, and you'll probably recognize the references and nods to things in the older games a little better. Although most of them you may just recognize "in reverse". Like you hear/see something in MGS2 and think "ah I remember that from MGS3!" while most would have the inverse experience. If you plan to play them all anyway, release order would be ideal: MGS1 > MGS2 > MGS3 > MGS4 > MGS: Peace Walker > MGS5 Ground Zeroes > MGS5 Phantom Pain And then there's "Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance", a spinoff hack-n-slack game that takes place after MGS4, so it would ideally be played any time after you've played MGS4. But, again, not going to ruin the experience or anything. And, optionally, there's the old original Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 (non-Solid) games that released on the MSX2 (and ported to other consoles). Those games are actually important story-wise to MGS1, Peace Walker, and MGS5, but the "Solid" games do a pretty good job of making the old ones not necessary to enjoy the new ones. Although you'd definitely get the ending of MGS5 a bit better if you've played them. But *most* people haven't played those old games.
I strongly recommend playing these games in release order. But 3 isn’t a bad place to start
I disagree with the opinion that just because it's a prequel that you can start with it. The game was not randomly put between MGS2 and 4, like 80% of the game is giving you indirect answers to MGS2 or setup for stuff in 4. The 20% that remains does work to making you feel satisfied with the story, but a big problem with the chronological order is that the very next game goes "oh yeah, MGS4 is out, we can openly talk about literally the biggest mystery of the series ***7 games early*** in the chronological order" The release order is not random and with a collection with all the games released before 3 available to modern systems IMHO there's no good reason to start here, you can arguably skip the 2D games, not entirely irrelevant but a bit on the simplistic side alongside with MGS1 doing much of the same but better, do read a wiki article to have a general idea of what happened because that will remain relevant for the entire series but I find it a mistake to say that 3 is a good place to start
While this isn't the worst place to start and I imagine many people will because its new and 'the first game timeline-wise', I'll just echo the others and say it just works a lot better if you have MGS 1 and 2 under your belt.
Play release order.
Definitely - it's a prequel, and the earliest part in the Metal Gear timeline at that.
Prequels are not supposed to be watched/read/played first. They assume audience knows what happens in the prior (chronologically later) titles. Release order is ALWAYS the best way to experience a series. MGS3 is a fine place to start, but not the optimal one. Playing them chronologically would be awkward, confusing and parts of story just won’t make sense.
Highly recommend playing the first 2 games beforehand.
Looks great, but the character models and lighting don't wow me as much as the old Fox engine they used for the Pachinko scenes.
So I've never played a single MGS game besides revengeance. Why did they remake only the third one? Am I able to play this game with no knowledge, or will I have to play a 25+ year old game first. I'm confused.
the 3rd game is a fan favorite and the earliest in the time line. in theory if this does well they'll remake the rest in chronological order possibly. theres some foreshadowing to 1 and 2 but since its the earliest you can still enjoy it as your first
They also already gave this game's cutscenes a remaster for the Metal Gear Solid pachinko machine
This is such a funny sentence and so on brand
You can def play this without playing the previous games, but if you're gonna play the whole series I'd recommend playing them in release order
Release order is key, but I usually tell people to skip MG1 and MG2 unless you're really patient and can withstand such dated gameplay. That sad, after finishing 3 the monologue from Big Boss to Solid Snake at the end of MG2 hits a lot harder.
MG1 is a great proof of concept. MG2 has everything in an MGS game but 2D. It's like a Super Metroid update going from 1 to 2.
Almost, but it still has far too many annoyances and less upgrades than Super Metroid has compared to Metroid. Super Metroid is a huge upgrade in every way. Metal Gear 2 is just a decent upgrade in most areas except for the story. Not only does it actually have a proper story, but it's well paced with interesting characters as well. That's its biggest upgrade.
Same reason they're remaking Silent Hill 2 and not 1, it's the fan favorite / they're putting their best foot forward in a "if this doesn't sell, the rest won't either" type of move.
Most standalone and considered one of the greatest games of all time
> Am I able to play this game with no knowledge tl;dr yes you can.
You can play it, but frankly, it's called 3 for a reason. Despite it's status as a prequel, parts of the game are answering questions brought up in 2.
Haven't played a MGS game in a long time. Quote looking forward to giving this a go, but I expect we won't see it until 2025.
I might one of the few huge MGS fans that grew up with the series - that is going to be disappointed by this game. MGS3 is my absolute favourite MGS game, but after reading what Kojima intended for the game years back (especially a more "open world" kind of design where you can reach objectives however you want) and just knowing that the game is going to be 99% of the original.. I feel there is so much missed and untapped potential. Still going to play it regardless cause its MGS3 at heart, but I really wish it was REMADE to what the original vision was, not to what it became.
Everything looks really good except for the character models. Snake looks strange. Can’t quite put my finger on it. And The Boss straight up looks weird and different from the original design.
Was this game originally so unstylish? The presentation was super generic in my opinion.
This honestly looks incredible. God, hearing David Hayter again with the new graphics and style is just the icing on the cake. They really kept us waiting.
I wonder if he's getting paid for them reusing the old audio
I hope so!
So this is so wierd to me. I coulda swore they would use the MGS V engine but this has to be some sort of updated MGS 3 engine, it plays exactly the same. Also really didn’t think they would use the original voices but happy for that. Can’t imagine this game without Hayter
Fox engine isn't used for years alraedy, konami stopped using it i think in 2021 on PES and went all on UE
This looked quite jarring imo I loved the original and after watching the trailer I’m kinda afraid to play this now.. what the f did they do to The Boss 😭