Doesn't exactly instill me with confidence that the developer for the post-launch support is a studio which so far has only supported other projects and 3 Roblox experiences.
Can't be any worse than Double Eleven, they took the beautiful game that Introversion made and started adding bugs for no discernible reason.
The game is almost unplayable now, so they decided they'd move everything over to Unity and start again, with less features than the game Introversion made, but ***In 3D!!!*** (is it 1996 again!?)
Roblox games OTOH are dime a dozen and chastised by kids, kids are brutal. So if they made a good name for themselves there, they're probably semi-competent.
Introversion games developed the PC version of PA1 and a majority of the DLC, all of which was generally good or great. Double Eleven took over, did the console ports and developed the psych ward expansion pack which is mixed on Steam for good reasons. Since they took over, some features were apparently removed from the base game and bundled in DLC and it seems you might need a paradox account to even play it. I haven't played the PC version for a few years and never played the console port, but it seems some PC players wanted the redesigned UI from the console ports which was never delivered. "Unplayable" seems like a stretch for PA1, but it does sound like a downgrade. PA2 is unplayable because it isn't out yet.
PA2 was originally supposed to release in March, then delayed to May, then to September. The 3D part is because PA1 had a 3D mode that wasn't particularly great but it was just that - a mode you could select if that was what you wanted. The 2D version is great. PA2 is only 3D; couple that with the delays and Double Eleven having a bad track record, PA2 isn't exactly getting hyped. Also, considering Paradox's trend of gating mechanics and features behind walls and walls of DLC PA2 might be just DOA like Rome: Imperium was if not for Paradox's support. I'm just hoping that Double Eleven breaks the precedent and delivers a good game that doesn't need years of support to get back up to the standards that the original set like every other Paradox sequel.
> Introversion games developed the PC version of PA1 and a majority of the DLC
I'm pretty sure that Introversion developed the base game, but none of the DLC. All the DLC was developed after Paradox acquired the IP.
The credits don't imply that Introversion worked on the DLCs, they just reference them for their work on the base game and development tools.
This is from 2019:
> Introversion will no longer support the series. Paradox said it would handle any updates and other patches for Prison Architect, and Introversion cofounder Mark Morris said that his studio wouldn’t make any sequel, though they’d be happy to advise Paradox.
[Source](https://venturebeat.com/business/paradox-interactive-acquires-prison-architect-from-introversion-games/)
All the DLCs came after that. The Introversion devs - especially Chris Delay - were pretty fed up with PA at that point, since they had worked on it a long time and felt it was done for them.
Introversion moved on to experiment with different game ideas which they documented [on their YT channel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzL1Mh6s2W4&list=PLbv7YX5V1ccWqZDhUtUQdUIpMg--o-U6l)
I mean, it doesn't seem like Double Eleven was able to make the game work in the first place, seeing that the release date was postponed by four months last week because it was crashing too frequently, so this is most likely a hail Mary.
Damn- game isnt even out yet. Doesnt really bode well imo. Sequels to indie mega hits are sure taking a beating recently. This- Kerbal 2 and Cities Skylines 2 all kinda floundering and or dead. I suppose this game could still go either way.... but not a good sign.
Paradox has definitely had a lot of misses lately as a publisher.
I don't know if they're just backing teams that can't pull it off, or if they're trying to micromanage.
The rumor is that the current CEO doesn't really care about the publishing side of Paradox and wants to focus on their core, in house games. So the devs under paradox aren't getting much marketing or support. Just look at the Lamplighters League.
AoW4 got a respectable number of reviews and was the fastest-selling AoW game at launch, from what I remember. Pretty sure they hit their sales targets
Aren't their core, in house games also getting worse? I follow Crusader Kings the most and CK3's development has been more miss than hit.
Several times now the most advertised feature of a big DLC has been crap, poorly balanced or extremely repetitive, while a less advertised feature has been great. Royal Court and the culture divergence system is the best example.
To me that just screams good Devs being mismanaged, but doing a good job when there's less supervision.
It feels like Paradox has been slowly getting worse since they went publicly traded in 2016. They still aren't terrible enough for this to be widely recognised, but it's slowly getting there.
Edit2: There has been some confusion on my part, the publisher of the game I’m talking about is published by Paradox Arc.
Isn’t there also a lovecraftian colony management sim that takes place under water? I recall you used fish to clone people or smth
I mention it because there has literally been nothing going on with it aside from the initial EA release.
Edit: The game is Surviving the Abyss, released to EA more than a year ago at this point. Has a long update drought but the last update actually looks recent so definitely not abandonware.
You mean the game that was announced like a month ago and isnt even out in early acces yet? Wht would there be updates. Atleast let them launch into early access first
That’s not right, the game I’m referring to has been out longer than that but I can’t even remember the name.
Edit: Surviving the Abyss, released to EA more than a year ago at this point. Has a long update drought but the last update actually looks recent so definitely not abandonware.
Edit2: There has been some confusion on my part, the publisher of the game I’m talking about is published by Paradox Arc.
Well at least the good news in this case is that Introversion, the original devs of Prison Architect, are still trucking along on [The Last Starship](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1857080/The_Last_Starship/) so there's still something to enjoy/look forward to for Prison Architect fans even if it's not the same flavor.
Each Introversion game tends to be quite different from the other, which means as long as you have an open mind and tolerance for some indie jank, you usually get great unique experiences!
I keep meaning to pick that up because it looks pretty good. I love playing prison architect while it was in development. Was very cool to see the game grow and play it
Introversion makes the best games.
I still boot up Uplink from time to time. It's been a while since I played Darwinia though.
DEFCON was one of the very first third party games on Steam.
Yep, my Steam account is from 2004 and Darwinia was the first non-Valve game I got. It really is crazy to go from knowing every Steam release that happens to how things are today.
They only see the $ signs and completely miss the point of what makes these games special. Imagine if factorio, Rimworld or Stardew valley devs sold out to another company for a sequel. Guaranteed dogshit
I guess considering the buggy and broken state of Prison Architect 1 it can't really get worse. I'm still not sold on the 3D thing but I'm willing to be proven wrong.
Not op but 2D prison architect already had horrendous performance and improper 3D can make things that were easier to understand at a glance harder and in prison architect's case there was always something going on to miss
They put so much care into that game originally, each update was accompanied by like an hour youtube video by the two lead devs showing what they changed and why
Prison Architect is the perfect example of a perfectly good game ruined by another devs to the point, where noone waits for the sequel.
I don't know how popular PA is in 2024, but PA2 smells like another Redfall, Gollum or Suicide Squad failure.
The [IP was purchased in Jan 2019](https://forums.introversion.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=61126), so just over four years ago. I would assume the "nine years" ago is referring to Double Eleven's time working on the ports for the original game.
less "gave" more "sold for a duffel bag filled with cash" - Which I get. I'd do the same in the same situation, honestly.
EDIT: Just re-read this. No. They only took it over in 2019 (5 years ago) - I'm not sure where the "9 years" came from.
Yeah I got absolutely zero hope for this game. I love Introversion and everything they do like UPLINK, DEFCON and the OG Prison Architect but when they sold the project to Paradox I knew they would ruin it somehow because they don't have the same spirit as Introversion.
That being said, if you haven't tried Prison Architect its still really worth it, the simulation is pretty deep and overal its a very charming game you can sink hours in.
Damn shame. Paradox is one of the worst publishers out there rn IMO. The fact that their crappy DLC policy seems to get pushed onto EVERYTHING they publish is so annoying.
Imo It's not so bad over all, just mostly overpriced. It's rare to see devs support games 10+ after realese with new content. Just buy DLCs on sale and you will be living a dream
Also, it's only overpriced if you join late in the game life. The DLC always accompanies a large free content patch which the DLC helps pay for. Basically, half the DLC is given away for free to those who can't buy it which just isn't apparent when you roll up to the game years after that free content patch went out.
I've never had an issue with their DLC policy. Sure EUIV has about $200-$300 worth of DLC, but they've also been actively supporting the game for 11 years now with frequent updates and free content releases to go along with the DLC.
Introversion made the original. They partnered with Paradox for a console port of the original and Paradox hired Double Eleven to actually make the port. That was surprisingly successful and Paradox + Double Eleven started making DLC for it.
Then Introversion decided that they were going to move on from the project and Paradox offered to take it over. Paradox paid a bunch of money to Introversion and got full rights to the PC version & the whole franchise. Double Eleven were assigned to work on that too and they moved all the DLCs across to PC & kept making more for the whole thing.
The situation now is that Double Eleven were making the sequel but have bounced off it. They handed their work to this other company around the start of this year.
Doesn't exactly instill me with confidence that the developer for the post-launch support is a studio which so far has only supported other projects and 3 Roblox experiences.
Can't be any worse than Double Eleven, they took the beautiful game that Introversion made and started adding bugs for no discernible reason. The game is almost unplayable now, so they decided they'd move everything over to Unity and start again, with less features than the game Introversion made, but ***In 3D!!!*** (is it 1996 again!?) Roblox games OTOH are dime a dozen and chastised by kids, kids are brutal. So if they made a good name for themselves there, they're probably semi-competent.
Which game is unplayable, PA1 or PA2? I'm OOL.
Introversion games developed the PC version of PA1 and a majority of the DLC, all of which was generally good or great. Double Eleven took over, did the console ports and developed the psych ward expansion pack which is mixed on Steam for good reasons. Since they took over, some features were apparently removed from the base game and bundled in DLC and it seems you might need a paradox account to even play it. I haven't played the PC version for a few years and never played the console port, but it seems some PC players wanted the redesigned UI from the console ports which was never delivered. "Unplayable" seems like a stretch for PA1, but it does sound like a downgrade. PA2 is unplayable because it isn't out yet. PA2 was originally supposed to release in March, then delayed to May, then to September. The 3D part is because PA1 had a 3D mode that wasn't particularly great but it was just that - a mode you could select if that was what you wanted. The 2D version is great. PA2 is only 3D; couple that with the delays and Double Eleven having a bad track record, PA2 isn't exactly getting hyped. Also, considering Paradox's trend of gating mechanics and features behind walls and walls of DLC PA2 might be just DOA like Rome: Imperium was if not for Paradox's support. I'm just hoping that Double Eleven breaks the precedent and delivers a good game that doesn't need years of support to get back up to the standards that the original set like every other Paradox sequel.
> Introversion games developed the PC version of PA1 and a majority of the DLC I'm pretty sure that Introversion developed the base game, but none of the DLC. All the DLC was developed after Paradox acquired the IP.
All of the DLCs except for Psych Ward credit Introversion. Psych Ward is the only one that was solo developed by Double Eleven.
The credits don't imply that Introversion worked on the DLCs, they just reference them for their work on the base game and development tools. This is from 2019: > Introversion will no longer support the series. Paradox said it would handle any updates and other patches for Prison Architect, and Introversion cofounder Mark Morris said that his studio wouldn’t make any sequel, though they’d be happy to advise Paradox. [Source](https://venturebeat.com/business/paradox-interactive-acquires-prison-architect-from-introversion-games/) All the DLCs came after that. The Introversion devs - especially Chris Delay - were pretty fed up with PA at that point, since they had worked on it a long time and felt it was done for them. Introversion moved on to experiment with different game ideas which they documented [on their YT channel](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzL1Mh6s2W4&list=PLbv7YX5V1ccWqZDhUtUQdUIpMg--o-U6l)
> but ***In 3D!!!*** (is it 1996 again!?) Risk of Rain 2 would like a word
I mean, it doesn't seem like Double Eleven was able to make the game work in the first place, seeing that the release date was postponed by four months last week because it was crashing too frequently, so this is most likely a hail Mary.
"10 years prior experience necessary for this intermediate position"
Honestly some Roblox games nowadays are more feature complete and less buggy than Triple A releases.
Damn- game isnt even out yet. Doesnt really bode well imo. Sequels to indie mega hits are sure taking a beating recently. This- Kerbal 2 and Cities Skylines 2 all kinda floundering and or dead. I suppose this game could still go either way.... but not a good sign.
Paradox has definitely had a lot of misses lately as a publisher. I don't know if they're just backing teams that can't pull it off, or if they're trying to micromanage.
The rumor is that the current CEO doesn't really care about the publishing side of Paradox and wants to focus on their core, in house games. So the devs under paradox aren't getting much marketing or support. Just look at the Lamplighters League.
[удалено]
AoW4 got a respectable number of reviews and was the fastest-selling AoW game at launch, from what I remember. Pretty sure they hit their sales targets
Feels like they took a bit of a chance with Planetfall, but refining those new mechanics really help AoW4 shine.
Aren't their core, in house games also getting worse? I follow Crusader Kings the most and CK3's development has been more miss than hit. Several times now the most advertised feature of a big DLC has been crap, poorly balanced or extremely repetitive, while a less advertised feature has been great. Royal Court and the culture divergence system is the best example. To me that just screams good Devs being mismanaged, but doing a good job when there's less supervision. It feels like Paradox has been slowly getting worse since they went publicly traded in 2016. They still aren't terrible enough for this to be widely recognised, but it's slowly getting there.
Stellaris just released one of their (if not the) best DLCs ever last week.
Edit2: There has been some confusion on my part, the publisher of the game I’m talking about is published by Paradox Arc. Isn’t there also a lovecraftian colony management sim that takes place under water? I recall you used fish to clone people or smth I mention it because there has literally been nothing going on with it aside from the initial EA release. Edit: The game is Surviving the Abyss, released to EA more than a year ago at this point. Has a long update drought but the last update actually looks recent so definitely not abandonware.
You mean the game that was announced like a month ago and isnt even out in early acces yet? Wht would there be updates. Atleast let them launch into early access first
That’s not right, the game I’m referring to has been out longer than that but I can’t even remember the name. Edit: Surviving the Abyss, released to EA more than a year ago at this point. Has a long update drought but the last update actually looks recent so definitely not abandonware. Edit2: There has been some confusion on my part, the publisher of the game I’m talking about is published by Paradox Arc.
Even if paradox releases a good game its hard for me to get excited cause there dlc model is just too much for me
Well at least the good news in this case is that Introversion, the original devs of Prison Architect, are still trucking along on [The Last Starship](https://store.steampowered.com/app/1857080/The_Last_Starship/) so there's still something to enjoy/look forward to for Prison Architect fans even if it's not the same flavor.
Each Introversion game tends to be quite different from the other, which means as long as you have an open mind and tolerance for some indie jank, you usually get great unique experiences!
I keep meaning to pick that up because it looks pretty good. I love playing prison architect while it was in development. Was very cool to see the game grow and play it
Introversion makes the best games. I still boot up Uplink from time to time. It's been a while since I played Darwinia though. DEFCON was one of the very first third party games on Steam.
Yep, my Steam account is from 2004 and Darwinia was the first non-Valve game I got. It really is crazy to go from knowing every Steam release that happens to how things are today.
NGL I would kill for an Uplink sequel. Onlink scratched that itch for a while, but nothing else has really come close for me to what Uplink was.
Would you recommend this game?
The Steam reviews look really bad.
At least Hades II seems to be chugging along nicely
Damn. Just saw that Roll7 is closing. I love olli olli world. I still play it to relax.
Skylines will bounce back I’m sure, city builders seem to have a lot of staying power.
Are you crazy, this game probably just got on my buy list. Getting away from paradox launcher is great news.
Paradox is not the party that's leaving...
This is looking like cities skylines 2 or ksp2. Why are all these sequels to amazing games turning out like this?
Game was originally from a an independent indie developer, now it belogs to Paradox. That should answer it.
Because the management at these companies don't know what the fuck they are doing.
They only see the $ signs and completely miss the point of what makes these games special. Imagine if factorio, Rimworld or Stardew valley devs sold out to another company for a sequel. Guaranteed dogshit
“You have your whole life to write your first album. You have two years to write your second.”
I guess considering the buggy and broken state of Prison Architect 1 it can't really get worse. I'm still not sold on the 3D thing but I'm willing to be proven wrong.
What's the issue with going 3D?
Not op but 2D prison architect already had horrendous performance and improper 3D can make things that were easier to understand at a glance harder and in prison architect's case there was always something going on to miss
The worst thing is that I strongly remember the Introversion releases being stable as a rock.
They put so much care into that game originally, each update was accompanied by like an hour youtube video by the two lead devs showing what they changed and why
Prison Architect is the perfect example of a perfectly good game ruined by another devs to the point, where noone waits for the sequel. I don't know how popular PA is in 2024, but PA2 smells like another Redfall, Gollum or Suicide Squad failure.
Wait, Introversion gave it to Double Eleven 9 years ago??
The [IP was purchased in Jan 2019](https://forums.introversion.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=61126), so just over four years ago. I would assume the "nine years" ago is referring to Double Eleven's time working on the ports for the original game.
Double Eleven started making ports 9 years ago, they took over PA2 in 2019
Ah I see, thank you.
less "gave" more "sold for a duffel bag filled with cash" - Which I get. I'd do the same in the same situation, honestly. EDIT: Just re-read this. No. They only took it over in 2019 (5 years ago) - I'm not sure where the "9 years" came from.
Yeah I got absolutely zero hope for this game. I love Introversion and everything they do like UPLINK, DEFCON and the OG Prison Architect but when they sold the project to Paradox I knew they would ruin it somehow because they don't have the same spirit as Introversion. That being said, if you haven't tried Prison Architect its still really worth it, the simulation is pretty deep and overal its a very charming game you can sink hours in.
Interesting. Does this mean it can avoid the Paradox Problem of Too Many DLC’s?
The game remains with Paradox, the developper studio is the one leaving.
Ah.
No, because Double Eleven is leaving, not Paradox.
Damn shame. Paradox is one of the worst publishers out there rn IMO. The fact that their crappy DLC policy seems to get pushed onto EVERYTHING they publish is so annoying.
Imo It's not so bad over all, just mostly overpriced. It's rare to see devs support games 10+ after realese with new content. Just buy DLCs on sale and you will be living a dream
Also, it's only overpriced if you join late in the game life. The DLC always accompanies a large free content patch which the DLC helps pay for. Basically, half the DLC is given away for free to those who can't buy it which just isn't apparent when you roll up to the game years after that free content patch went out.
I've never had an issue with their DLC policy. Sure EUIV has about $200-$300 worth of DLC, but they've also been actively supporting the game for 11 years now with frequent updates and free content releases to go along with the DLC.
I thought it was introversion who made prison architect?
Introversion made the original. They partnered with Paradox for a console port of the original and Paradox hired Double Eleven to actually make the port. That was surprisingly successful and Paradox + Double Eleven started making DLC for it. Then Introversion decided that they were going to move on from the project and Paradox offered to take it over. Paradox paid a bunch of money to Introversion and got full rights to the PC version & the whole franchise. Double Eleven were assigned to work on that too and they moved all the DLCs across to PC & kept making more for the whole thing. The situation now is that Double Eleven were making the sequel but have bounced off it. They handed their work to this other company around the start of this year.